From: Harold R. Holmyard III (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sun Aug 20 2000 - 22:16:09 EDT
>In John 15:8 we have:
>EN TOUTW EDOXASQH O PATHR MOU
>INA KARPON POLUN FERHTE
>KAI GENHSQE EMOI MAQHTAI
>Q.1 - Are the two phrases joined by KAI correlative? That is, In this is
>glorified my Father (1) in that you bear much fruit and (2) [in that] you be
>my disciples? or is the second phrase *somehow built* upon the first phrase
>as NAU translates: "that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my
I have always understood the verse in the second way, as the NAU takes it
(what is the NAU, please?). In John 15:5 Jesus says that the one who abides
in Him will bear much fruit. In 15:4 He had told the disciples to abide in
Him. So anyone who bears much fruit will abide in Christ. One who abides in
Christ is a disciple of Christ, for he is abiding in Him. If one does not
abide in Him, 15:6 says that he is cast outside, where he is then burned.
This is an obvious picture of judgment and non-discipleship. So one either
abides or does not. If one does, one bears much fruit. And the bearing of
much fruit is a proof that one is a disciple.
>Q.2 - What is the import of the difference between GENHSQE
>(Nestle/Aland) )and GENHSESQE (Maj), that is, knowing that the first is
>subjunctive aorist and the second indicative future?
I do not know that the change has to make a lot of difference in meaning
(although there may be some subtle difference that I do not know about).
Revelation 3:9 is a place where both the future indicative and the aorist
subjunctive follow the same hIVA. Philippians 2:10-11 has a variant reading
that does this as well, as BAGD points out under hIVA, I, 2.
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