From: James S. Murray (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue Sep 05 2000 - 23:58:57 EDT
Does it matter in this case that the genitive and the head noun are both verbal
ideas? This phrase strikes me as being very similar to another Pauline phrase; EX
AKOHS PISTEWS in Gal. 3:2. It seems to me that the most straightforward way to
understand this phrase is by "by hearing and believing" or "by believing what you
heard" (NIV; NRSV), rather than by understanding it in terms of a subjective or
objective genitive. Young has an interesting discussion of this under the heading of
Compound Verbal Genitives in his Intermediate NT Greek.
Could Rom 1:5, then, be understood as " we have received grace and a commission, to
lead/call people from all the nations to believe and obey?" I don't think this is at
variance with what you wrote, though perhaps there is more connection or interplay
between faith/believing and obeying here than I'm allowing for in my translation.
"Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
> At 12:03 PM -0400 9/4/00, Theodore H Mann wrote:
> >I recently read that hUPAKOH PISTEWS, in Romans 1:5, has been viewed as
> >(1) an objective genitive, (2) a subjective genitive, (3) an attributive
> >genitive, or (4) as a genitive of apposition. Any thoughts as to which
> >it might be?
> I've said this before, but some don't take it very seriously: these
> distinctions reflect English or other target language usage, not categories
> in which Greek speakers/authors understood the relationship of a genitive
> with another noun.
> The text (which, as usual, I would urge posters, please, to present along
> with their questions--we can go to a text and look it up, but we wouldn't
> have to if we were given it with the question): ... IHSOU CRISTOU TOU
> KURIOUS hHMWN, (5) DI' hOU ELABOMEN CARIN KAI APOSTOLHN EIS hUPAKOHN
> PISTEWS EN PASIN TOIS EQNESIN hUPER TOU ONOMATOS AUTOU, ...
> Now consider the alternatives suggested:
> (1) objective genitive: "for obedience to faith" -- but is faith a person
> to whom one offers obedience? hardly.
> (2) subjective genitive: "faith's obedience" -- but is faith a person who
> can obey?
> (3) attributive genitive: "obedience of faith" = "obedience associated
> with/dependent upon faith" = "faithful obedience" -- that's what strikes me
> as most appropriate in this instance.
> (4) genitive of apposition: "obedience, i.e. faith" -- this doesn't make a
> lot of sense to me.
> My own sense of the intended meaning here is that when Paul successfully
> discharges his mission as an apostle he brings new converts into a
> condition that is not merely faith in God through Christ, but efficacious
> faith, which is to say, obedience to God's will as understood in Christ.
> You may say this is an interpretation, and so it is, but I think it is
> consistent both with Pauline usage and with Paul's expressed views on
> behavior as the consequence of newly-gained faith in God through Christ;
> that is to say, faith is not an abstract attitude or cognitive stance but a
> disposition to act in obedience to God's will as understood through Christ.
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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