From: Carl W. Conrad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sat Sep 09 2000 - 08:23:02 EDT
At 2:41 PM -0600 9/8/00, lance w seevers wrote:
>Is faith a person to whom one offers obedience? Dr. Conrad asked this
>question in regard to the objective genitive. I realize the construction
>is different but see Acts 6:7-
>KAI O LOGOS TOU QEOU HUXANEN KAI EPLHQUNETO hO APIQMOS TWN MAQHTWN EN
>IEROUSALHM SFODRA POLYS TE OXLOS TWN IEREWN hUPHKOUON THi PISTEI
(transliteration slightly amended/emended).
Touche'!! (the postpositive accent is my gesture in the interests of plain
This IS a little bit bizarre, if one thinks about it a bit. hH PISTIS here
DOES seem to take on (informally?) a sort of personification; it is not so
much, I think, a body of abstract doctrine as it is a "Torah" that
addresses persons individually and in the heart and draws forth from them a
response of submission more than of intellectual assent. It seems to me
that the DAVAR-IHWH in the OT is represented that way and certainly becomes
personified in Hellenistic Jewish literature as SOFIA--and of course, in
John as hO LOGOS.
So I guess that IF Paul in Rom 1:5 was thinking in the same terms, we might
say that "objective genitive" is in fact an appropriate way to understand
>> > >(1) an objective genitive, (2) a subjective genitive, (3) an
>> > attributive
>> > >genitive, or (4) as a genitive of apposition. Any thoughts as to
>> > which it might be?
>> > (1) objective genitive: "for obedience to faith" -- but is faith a
>> > person
>> > to whom one offers obedience? hardly.
>> > (2) subjective genitive: "faith's obedience" -- but is faith a
>> > person who
>> > can obey?
>> > (3) attributive genitive: "obedience of faith" = "obedience
>> > associated
>> > with/dependent upon faith" = "faithful obedience" -- that's what
>> > strikes me
>> > as most appropriate in this instance.
>> > (4) genitive of apposition: "obedience, i.e. faith" -- this
>> > doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
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