From: Mark Wilson (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sun Sep 10 2000 - 20:05:56 EDT
>Is there any indication that MARTURIA in the Biblical text
>ever means something other than "testimony" or "witness-bearing"?
I think this is clearly true as to its "unaffected" meaning. Don't you
Carl also said:
>I can't see the "modern" sense of MARTURIA that you assert for Rev 1:2.
When I originally read your statement here, I felt like I had a better
understanding of why you chose "Polycarp" as your AOL handle :o )
I must admit, I can not see "martyr" in this verse, as well as 1:9; I think
you might be forcing something here just a little.
But my interest in entering this discussion is related to this comment of
>For some reason the traditional dating of this book has survived the
> >recognition by most that it was not written by the Apostle John. I
> >consider it to have been written somewhat later than the traditional
Seems odd to me that the author of this book would identify himself "simply"
as John, knowing that one of the most central figures in the NT was John
(the Apostle), who was believed to have written the fourth gospel, whether
he did or not.
Regarding the "later than the traditional date," my curiosity would be
further aroused if you believe this book to be part of the NT canon. Why
pray tell would God have revealed this "final chapter" to some John Doe? And
why wait until all of Christ's immediate successors had perished?
Do not these considerations have some bearing on whom we identify as this
Also, I think in fairness, your statement that "most recognize this was not
written by the Apostle John" should be clarified. I think "most," if not
practically "all," modern Evangelical Conservative scholars attribute this
book to the Apostle John. But that is to be expected.
I would concede your statement to be true within a "particular circle" of
scholars. For example, those identified today as "liberals" would clearly
deny that the Apostle John wrote this. However, that in itself does not make
them wrong or right. I may not even object to your saying that "all
recognize..." as long as you preface your statement with "Of those I believe
to be correct..."
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