[b-greek] Re: 1 John 5

From: Brian Swedburg (brian@discoveryhills.org)
Date: Fri Sep 22 2000 - 15:17:46 EDT


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<br>Greetings Blahoslave and list,
<p><i>Blahoslav Cicel wrote:</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hello brothers and friends,</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; I would like to ask if the following structuring of
the text is possible:</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 John 5:3,4</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; AUTH GAR ESTIN hH AGAPH TOU QEOU,</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
hINA TAS ENTOLAS AUTOU THRWMEN</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- KAI hAI ENTOLAI AUTOU BAREIAI OUK EISIN -</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hOTI
PAN TO GEGENNHMENON EK TOU QEOU NIKA TON KOSMON. (or , or ; as you</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; like)</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; KAI AUTH ESTIN hH NIKH hH NIKHSASA TON KOSMON</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hH
PISTIS hHMWN.</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; It seems to me, that the AUTH ... ESTIN introduces a
statement. So there are</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; two statements in the passage:</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. (So) This is the love of God,</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
for us to keep (note the Subjunctive) his commandments</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- and his commandments are not hard -</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that
everyone born from God ovecomes the world.</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. (And) This is the victory which overcomes the world</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; our
faith.</i>
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Blahoslav:&nbsp; Consider the possibility that in the phrase hH AGAPH
TOU QEOU, God is an objective genitive, i.e.. the
<br>object of the love we show, and that this is often the case in 1 John.
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Secondly, your second statement is in my mind not
a second statement, but rather a further explanation, on
<br>John's part, of the "overcoming"
<p>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; <i>In the first statment I se a possibility that the logic
is as follows:</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; The love of God causes everyone born from God to overcome
the world which</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; makes him (her) able to keep God&acute;s commandments.</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; The second statment explains the base on which the victory
is obtained - our</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; faith.</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;</i><i></i>
<p>Again, your interpretation has grammatical legitimacy, but I would argue
that John is exhorting his readers that Love
<br>towards God is carried out in His commands.&nbsp; John further motivates
them by assuring them that such obedience is
<br>not a burden, but rather the the dependable by-product of every one
who is born again of God.
<p>My translation would be as follows
<p>For this is love for God, that we should keep His commands, and His
commands are not burdens because everyone
<br>who has been born (again) by God overcomes the world. Yes, this is
the victory overcoming the world, our faith! Who
<br>is the over comer of the world, if not the one believing that Jesus
is the Son of God?!
<p>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; <i>One question more to the v.2</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; EN TOUTW GINOSKOMEN hOTI AGAPWMEN ...</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; AGAPWMEN is 3p Pl Active and may be both Indicative
and Subjunctive. Is</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; there any claer reason to tag it as Indicative (as
On Line Bible tags it an</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; as it is usualy translated), or it is a case of mere
decission?</i>
<br>&nbsp;
<p>&nbsp;I am comfortable with either indicative or subjunctive.
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks for the dialogue.
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp; Brian Swedburg
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp; Student
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