[b-greek] Re: roast your own plus questions on 'simple vocab'

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Wed Dec 27 2000 - 15:40:55 EST


At 1:25 PM -0500 12/27/00, Randall Buth wrote:
>CAIRETE, I would like feedback on choosing well-formed Greek
>for beginning students of Koine.
>
>I'll start with a recent anecdote from the list:
>egrapsen clay
>>
>>My favorite grammar is now Accordance. I like to roast my own. <
>
>Nice coffee.
>It could use some beans from more 1st century texts, though. Does it search
>TLG?
>
>
>
>Now to questions. They have the wonderful quality of leaving a sense of
>uncertainty,
>despite their simplicity and having worked with the language thirty years
>in the other direction.
>
>Are you happy with the following:
>
>1.
>'he is pouring water into a cup'
> EIS POTHRION EGCUNNEI UDWR
>(this verb EN-CEIN doesn't occur in NT and is in a Koine form with
>-CUNNEI)

This looks o.k. It's always struck me as curious how this root CEw (w =
digamma) alternates with CU- and even in Homer has an alpha aorist, EXECEA.

>2.
>'the cup of water' (referring to a cup of water currently full)
> TO POTHRION TOU UDATOS
>(the second article seems necessary but I have no exact examples)

This (the second article) really seems strange to me; perhaps I'm thinking
too formally, but POTHRION hUDATOS PLHRES seems more suitable to me.

>3.
>'she is tired' AUTH EKLUOMENH ESTIN
>(a bit strong, 'giving out'/'fainting'/=exhausted but occurs in NT)

I find this questionable; NT instances seem to show the present ptc. as
middle (Gal 6:9, Heb 12:3). Wouldn't you want a perfect ptc., EKLELUMENH?

>4.
>kids (10-15years old) O PAIS, H PAIS and NEANISKOS, KORASION

Better get Christopher Hutson's response on this; while the others might
do, I have the sense that NEANISKOS may well refer to an older fellow (like
Latin ADULESCENS, which might well refer to a 30-year old).

>5.
>'full, satisfied' after eating= EMPEPLHSTAI, EMPEPLHSMENOI EISIN
>(a close call, but perfect CORTASMENOS doesn't occur in NT)

What of KORENNUMI, used in 1 Cor 4:8 (KEKORESMENOI) metaphorically of the
Corinthians who have "sated themselves" upon the lore of the gospel
(although Paul suggests they really haven't been weaned yet)
>6. 'is riding an animal' ELAUVEI IPPON/ONON//arma/k.t.l.
>(literally 'drives' an animal, chosen for cars in modern)

I've seen this in earlier Greek with hARMA but is it really used in what
you've read with an animal that is mounted and ridden? I guess the
fundamental sense is "push forward." It seems more commonly used of
marching or of being driven by winds or some force.

>7.
>'seated on an animal' EPIBEBHTWS EPI IPPON/k.t.l.
>(this EPIBAINEIN is close to 'riding'
>but would seem to be used in conjunction with a verb of movement)
>
EPIBEBHKWS perhaps? Yes, I guess it's close to "riding," although really it
means "mounted upon." (Mt 21:5)

>If any have resources, citations or advice on such common vocabulary
>I would be much obliged.
>
>And if you'd like to chew on more, I can send them your way.
>Think of this as a follow up to what happens when people actually want to
>communicate with this language. It's harder than one might think at first
>glance, but I think it is doable and certainly worth the effort.

Yes, I think it is hard, doable and worth the effort. I'm doing one final
plunge at teaching Koine Greek--a crash course during January--and I'm
going to try to do all of the English to Greek exercises, the sort of thing
I've (quite wrongly, I now feel in my late-learned wisdom) tended to tell
kids to skip unless they have time for them.
--

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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