From: Carl W. Conrad (email@example.com)
Date: Mon Mar 12 2001 - 08:38:18 EST
At 7:27 AM -0800 3/12/01, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 06:09:41 -0600 "Carl W. Conrad"
>> Okay, upon further reflection, I think the intent of the participle
>> is to indicate simultaneous occurrence, but with a causal
>> implication: EI PNEUMA hAGION ELABETE PISTEUSANTES?
>> "You did (of course) receive Holy Spirit when you came to believe,
>> didn't you (because these two matters--belief and the coming of
>> the Spirit) are interrelated)? I think this is still quite different
>> the antecedent aorist participle indicating action prior to the action
>> of the main verb. It seems to me that PISTEUSANTES here
>> functions as would an adverbial clause phrased something like
>> EPEI (or better EPEIDH or still better EPEIDHPER) EPISTEUSATE,
>> which conjunctions could be translated either "when" or "since."
>> No, I don't think Paul's asking HOW it happened but rather inquiring
>> whether their coming to faith happened, as we Presbyterians are
>> wont to say, "decently and in order."
>Yes, I like this. But, let's come back to the KJ translation and the
>aorist participle following the main verb. Did you find in the archives
>discussion regarding the placement of the participle?
I found the thread I was thinking of but it was about adverbial hOTE
clauses rather than about participles and doesn't have any direct bearing,
I think, on our present discussion (January of 1998, thread with subject
header, "POREUQEIS EKHRUXEN APEIQHSASIN in 1Peter3:19~20")
>suggesting the aorist participle normally denotes antecedent action when
>it precedes the main verb, but explanatory or simultaneous action when it
>Are we still trying to affirm or disavow this?
This is my surmise; I wouldn't want to affirm it definitively however
without a lot more investigation.
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