[b-greek] Re: Matthew 11.11

From: Brian Malley (bmalley@umich.edu)
Date: Fri Mar 23 2001 - 09:20:01 EST


In the immediate context, I don't see a contrast. John's disciples have
just left, and Jesus asks the crowd rhetorically why they went out to see
John. I think (tentatively) that the implication here is that they went out
to see John because they recognized that he was someone spiritual (hence the
contrast with the wealthy).

Jesus' statement in 11.11 seems to have the entailment that even John didn't
make it into the kingdom of heaven (the least person in the kingdom of
heaven is greater than John), and by implication it is difficult for the
audience as well. In this it strikes me as similar to the reasoning in 5.20
(NIV):

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the
Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the
kingdom of heaven."

The next verse (11.12) is the very enigmatic APW DE hHMERWN JWANNOU hEWS
ARTI hH BASILEIA TWN OURANWN BIAZETAI KAI BIASTAI hARPAZOUSIN AUTHN. I
don't really understand what Jesus is saying in this verse, but if there is
a contrast being maintained, it is not obvious from the grammar.

If there is a contrast intended by the hO DE of 11.11, then it is not
evidenced by the context. The fact that most English translations see a
contrast there indicates, I think, the plausibility of that interpretation.
But, having read the English before I could read Greek, I had frankly
expected a stronger contrast, perhaps ALLA.

Best,
Brian Malley

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Milloy [mailto:peter1448@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:45 AM
To: Biblical Greek
Subject: [b-greek] Re: Matthew 11.11


But, Mark, don't you see some intended contrast here? Isn't Jesus
contrasting the present age with the age to come (kingdom)? Isn't he saying
that the kingdom is so different that on some scale of values the least in
the kingdom is "greater" (whatever that means) than John?

That's how I've always read it, anyway. I didn't get in on the start of
this particular conversation, so maybe you or someone else can share a
better interpretation with me.


>From: "Mark Wilson" <emory2oo2@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Mark Wilson" <emory2oo2@hotmail.com>
>To: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>Subject: [b-greek] Re: Matthew 11.11
>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 04:39:35 -0000
>
>Brian:
>
>You wrote:
>
>------
>AMHN LEGW hUMIN, OUK EGHGERTAI EN GENNHTOIS GUINAIKWN MEIZWN IWANNOU
>BAPTISTOU; hO DE MIKROTEROS EN THi BASILEIAi TWN OURANOWN MEIZWN AUTOU
>ESTIN.
>
>But hO DE is a standard connective denoting a shift of subject without
>necessarily any contrastive or adversative force.
>-----
>
>I think you are exactly right. I would NOT connect the hO with the DE, but
>the DE itself is far from always, or even generally, denoting a contrastive
>or adversative force.
>
>My thoughts,
>
>Mark Wilson
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [peter1448@hotmail.com]
>To unsubscribe, forward this message to
>leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu
>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


---
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [bmalley@umich.edu]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu


---
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu




This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:36:53 EDT