[b-greek] Re: Act 7:59 (NP constituents- To Moon

From: Moon-Ryul Jung (moon@saint.soongsil.ac.kr)
Date: Mon Mar 26 2001 - 00:49:01 EST

Dear Mark,

> Moon:
> You wrote:
> -----
> >It is based on the basic principle:
> >(1) The modifiers of the head noun contributes
> > to determining the referent of the NP.
> >(2) Predicates explain the referent of the NP, which is
> > already determined.
> >
> >So, whether KOIMWMENOUS is a modifier or a predicate depends on
> >whether it helps determine the referent of AUTOUS or it explains
> >the referent of AUTOUS. Because AUTOUS is a demonstrative pronoun,
> >we should think that its referent is already known.
> -----
> The obvious question that comes to my mind is concerning participles of the
> category (1) above. It seems that by default all participles of category (2)
> would also fit category (1). And in my mind, I am trying to see why the
> reverse is not also true.

Let me use English examples. Consider

(1) I saw a weeping dog.
(2) I saw Mary's dog weeping.

In (2), the referent of "Mary's dog" is determined without the help
of the participle "weeping". Here "weeping" describes the activity of
Mary's dog, hence is a predicate to Mary's dog.

In (1), "a weeping dog" has a more specific reference than
does "a dog". Thus "weeping" in this case helps determine the referent
of "a dog". In sum, "weeping" in (1) is a modifier of "dog", and
"weeping" in (2) is a predicate to "Mary's dog". In (1), "a weeping dog"
is a noun phrase, but in (2) "Mary's dog weeping" is not a noun
phrase, at least according to the traditional parts of speech.

You might say that "weeping" in (2) modifies "Mary's dog" in some sense.
But that is not what I mean by "modify". I call a word or phrase
a modifier of a head noun only when it is a constituent of the noun phrase
(with the head noun). I also call a word or a phrase a modifier of a verb
when it is a constituent of the verb phrase. We call such a modifier
an adverb. We may say that modifiers of nouns or verbs transform them
into more specific nouns or verbs, so that their referents become more

I do not believe that English speakers would regard
"Mary's dog weeping" in sentence (2) as a noun phrase, i.e. a
noun more specific than "Mary's dog".

My question to Iver was raised because I thought that Iver
would regard the Greek equivalent of "Mary's dog weeping" in (2)
as an NP.

I am afraid that I am repeating such an elementary grammar here.
Please clarify your question, if I missed the target.

Moon-Ryul Jung
Sogang Univ,
Seoul, Korea

> Can you give me a few examples of participles (attributives) used where the
> referents are being "determined" (because they are not ALREADY DETEERMINED)
> by the participles? Or, have I misunderstood your grammatical principles
> above.
> Thank you,
> Mark Wilson
> _________________________________________________________________
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