[b-greek] Re: JOH 16,23

From: David Thiele (thielogian@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed May 02 2001 - 15:48:46 EDT

I would like to pick up a passing comment made by Carl
and get some further clarification, although it is
only tangentally related to the discussion of John

Most translations seem to relate SHMERON in Lk 23:43
to META EMOU ESHi EN TWi PARADEISWi. Carl suggests it
should be related to AMHN SOI LEGW. I'm wondering
why. Is the reasoning syntactic, contectual or


David Thiele
Pacific Adventist University
--- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
wrote: > I'd like to get one word in on this before I
> off the scene for a
> while. I agree with what Al writes below on the
> probability that EN TWi
> ONOMATI MOU should be understood with AITHSHTE TON
> PATERA rather than with
> DWSEI hUMIN. At least the context provides some help
> with this one, but I
> think it is worth pointing out that there are
> several prepositional phrases
> falling strategically between two clauses or
> participial phrases concerning
> which prepositional phrases it seems nigh unto
> arbitrary to decide how best
> to construe it. Sometimes it doesn't really
> matter--and I'd say that's the
> case here, where the phrase EN TWi ONOMATI MOU must
> be understood, I
> believe, implicitly with the other of the two
> clauses as well as with the
> first one no matter which one thinks is more
> probable.
> But we've had other cases like this: the reference
> of SHMERON in Lk 23:43
> (I used to think SHMERON ought to construe with META
> PARADEISWi although now I'm pretty confident it
> belongs rather with AMHN
> SOI LEGW); then there are the phrases that fall
> ambiguously between clauses
> in Eph 1:3-12: does EN AGAPHi at the end of verse 4
> belong with the clause
> preceding it (KAQWS EXELEXATO hHMAS KTL.) or with
> the clause following it
> question can be raised at
> the end of verse 8, whether EN PASHi SOFIAi KAI
> FRONHSEI should better be
> construed with the preceding clause (hHS
> the following clause (GNWRISAS hHMIN TO MUSTHRION
> These are all instances, I think, wherein more
> careful writing could have
> eliminated ambiguity; I don't think there's any
> intentional ambiguity in
> any of these verses I've cited (nor in John 16:23),
> but I rather doubt that
> there'll ever be universal consensus on resolving
> these ambiguities clearly
> in favor of one alternative or the other.
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Carlton Winbery
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