[b-greek] Re: Fw: Revelation 3:14 hH ARCH- the Beginning or the Origin,the ...

From: virgilsalvage1 (virgilsalvage1@msn.com)
Date: Tue May 15 2001 - 22:41:46 EDT

With regards to our discussion of ARCH in Rev. 3:14; Greg Stafford on Tues
15 May, at 14:11 proffered.....

     This issue was discussed in the archived discussion of a few months
There it was noted that when ARCH is used for "ruler" in the NT then it is
always accompanied by terms denoting "power," or "authority," neither of
which are present here.

Additionally, ARCWN is the common word for "ruler" in the NT, and, in fact,
John uses it in Revelation 1:5, ARCWN TWN BASILEWS THS GHS. Had "ruler" been
intended in 3:14 then either John or his translator could have simply used

Elsewhere in Revelation ARCH always means beginning. There does not seem to
be any grammatical or semantic reason for preferring "ruler" over
in Revelation 3:14.

     To Greg and all.....

     It would seem to me that what is suggested in the first paragraph above
[ when ARCH is used for "ruler" in the NT then it is
always accompanied by terms denoting "power," or "authority," neither of
which are present here. ], is limiting the possible meaning of ARCH
according to a concept of " well it's mostly used this way so that's what we
have to apply everytime "; now I'm just a beginner, however, surely this is
not the way possible meanings are determined. If that were so, then what is
pointed out in the second paragraph would require that where rulers are
spoken of we would expect to find ARCHON...wouldn't we ?

   Again, I think the suggestion that context is the pointing
finger....indicating to us what is meant in this place by that particular
word, e.g. in Revelation 1:5 we see Jesus Christ ! ARCHON ! Nominative !
Masculine ! The Ruler over all that is characterized by kings, over all that
is characterized by the earth. ARCHON is the appropriate and needful word
here. Pointing to superiority...power...dominance !

  But then in Revelation 3:14 we see a different word in a different
context. ARCH Nominative yes, but here it is feminine. At this point are we
going to say, well what difference does that make ? I hope so. The writer
here used a different word to indicate a different meaning that comes from
this different situation. The more I read the Greek and find masculine and
then feminine, the more I'm persuaded that there is a correlation betweeen
what we are familiar as regards the everyday masculine and feminine.
Masculine being source ( in many respects ), feminine coming out of source
and then drawing out, coaxing the masculine to exhibit and perform. We see
Mary doing this at the wedding of Cana. Pilate's wife attempting it in
Mathew when Jesus was before Pilate. We see Jesus doing this in John 1:18
EXHGHSATO, that is bringing out the Father.

   In this discussion concerning Revelation 3:14 and how we should
understand the meaning indicated here by ARCH, why is no one else citing
the context ? How can we find out what the Greek and the grammar are
indicating without considering the context ? Go there and you will
relationship and called for interaction. We do not find talk about
beginnings or power, do we ?

    One final arguement for ARCH being able to point to leadership, ruling
if you will and not necessarily having to have the content of power and
authority. Pericles in 435 B.C. when dealing with Corinth and her daughter
city Corcyra and the negotiations that led to Athens alliance with Corcyra,
rather than Corinth. That was Pericles as ARCHON. Pericles was ARCHON as
year after year he was re-elected to be one of the STRATEGOI. When he and

his party in 435 B.C. carried into effect the bringing of the war chest or
treasury from the sacred mid-Agean isle of Delos to Athens to be solely
guarded by Athens alone....Pericles was ARCHON. However, I would like to
suggest that he was being ARCH when in 430 B.C. he gave what was the
celebrated oration at the funeral of the first Athenians to fall in the war
against Sparta. Notice how the ARCHON becomes ARCH when he says such as..."
Nor are these the only points in which our city is worthy of admiration. We
cultivate refinement without extravagance and knowledge without effeminacy;
wealth we employ more for use than for show.....in our enterprises we
present the singular spectacle of daring and deliberation, each carried to
it's highest point, and both united in the same persons......and so forth.

    Then The ARCH in Revelation 3:14...." I know your works, that you are
neither cold nor hot: I would that you were cold or hot. So then because you
are lukewarm and neither cold not hot, I am going to vomit you out of my
mouth. Because you are saying..."I am rich", and increased with goods and
have need of nothing; yet you are not knowing that you are " wretched "..and
" miserable "..and " destitute "..and " blind "..and " naked "....

    Virgil Newkirk
    Salt Lake City, Utah

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