[b-greek] No Subject

From: Clwinbery@aol.com
Date: Sun May 20 2001 - 21:40:32 EDT


Charles, your post came to the list for moderation. The first two post of new
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Sincerely,

Carlton Winbery
c0-moderator




2001/5/22 0:00
Date and time this message will be automatically approved.
From: charlesblack@talk21.com

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:04:35 GMT+01:00

Subject: Re: [b-greek] EPIGNWSKW

Body: Solomon,
Thanks=20for=20reply=20on=20b-greek.

>=20Thayer=20defines=20EPIGINWSKW=20as=20"to=20know=20thoroughly,=20to=20know=

20accurately."=20=20BDAG=20gives=20"know=20exactly,=20completely,=20through=20

and=20through,"=20noting=20that=20this=20is=20"with=20the=20prep.=20making=20i

ts=20influence=20felt."=20=20Perhaps=20many=20translators=20do=20not=20or=20ca

nnot=20distinguish=20just=20when=20'the=20preposition=20is=20meant=20to=20make

=20its=20influence=20felt.'
>
>It=20would=20seem=20that=20some=20translations=20ignore=20the=20influence=20o

f=20epi-;=20others=20defer=20subjectively=20to=20context;=20and=20a=20careful=

20one=20might=20translate=20the=20term=20EPIGNWSIS=20consistently=20as=20"exac

t=20knowledge"=20or=20"accurate=20knowledge."
>
>Solomon=20Landers
>
>charlesblack@talk21.com=20wrote:
>
>=20Dear=20B-Greekers
>=20I=20have=20a=20question=20regarding=20the=20translation=20of=20EPIGNWSKO=2

0which=20I=20believe=20occurs=2020=20in=20the=20GNT.
>=20How=20would=20any=20of=20you=20translate=20it=3F=20Most=20le
xicons=20say=20that=20it=20is=20a=20'strengthened'=20form=20of=20GNWSKO=20yet=

20few=20English=20translations(I=20have=20in=20mind=20the=20more=20literal=20o

nes=20such=20as=20the=20NASB)make=20any=20distinction=20between=20them.=20Some

=20translations/translators=20do(some=20like=20C.B.Williams=20translates=20"*f

ull*=20knowledge"=20rather=20than=20just=20"knowledge"-NAS)but=20not=20always/

consistently=20so.

Actually,=20my=20question=20should=20have=20related=20specifically=20to=20the=

20noun=20forms=20of=20epignwsis=20and=20ginwsis=20
E=B7pi'gnw=B7sis,occurs=2020=20times=20in=20the=20GNT=20(See=20Rom.=201:28;=20

3:20;=20
10:2;=20Eph.=201:17;=204:13;Phil.=201:9;=20Col.=201:9,=2010;=202:2;=20=203:10;

1Tim=202:4;=202Tim=20
2:25;=203:7;=20Tit.=201:1;=20Phle.=201:6;=20Heb.=2010:26;=202Pet=201:2,=203;=2

02Pet1:8;=202:20).=20

There=20is=20one=20thing=20I=92d=20like=20to=20make=20clear=20at=20the=20outse

t.=20I=20am=20not=20seeking=20to=20
obtain=20a=20citation=20from=20a=20lexicon=20(as=20if=20that=20explained=20eve

rything=20away),=20but=20
rather=20a=20linguistic=20explanation=20or=20reason=20of=20why=20it=20is=20tha

t=20the=20affixed=20
preposition=20epi-=20makes=20the=20=96gnosis=20an=20=93exact=20knowledge.=94=2

0In=20other=20words,=20
what=20is=20it=20about=20the=20language=20itself=20that=20makes=20this=20disti

nction=3F=20Is=20there=20
anything=20intrinsic=20in=20the=20etymology=20or=20morphology=20of=20epignosis

=20itself=20that=20
makes=20=93exact=20knowledge=94=20a=20more=20precise=20translation=20than=20th

e=20plain=20
rendering=20of=20=93knowledge=3F=94=20If=20not,=20then=20why=20is=20there=20=2

0an=20appeal=20
made=20to=20the=20affixed=20preposition=20in=20epignosisas=20if=20the=20presen

ce=20of=20the=20affixed=20
preposition=20mandated=20a=20=93fine=20distinction=94=20between=20both=20of=20

these=20terms.=20

Is=20is=20posible=20that=20both=20epignwsis=20and=20gnwsis=20may=20mean=20the=

20
same=20thing.=20I=20would=20be=20interested=20in=20any=20example=20where=20the

se=20two=20terms=20may=20not=20have=20a=20
distinction
.=20If=20=20there=20are=20instances=20when=20these=20two=20words=20do=20not=20

make=20a=20fine=20
distinction,=20would=20this=20not=20show=20that=20there=20is=20noting=20intrin

sic=20
in=20the=20etymology=20or=20morphology=20of=20the=20terms=20themselves=20that=

20mandate=20a=20fine=20
distinction.=20Thus,could=20such=20appeals=20to=20morphology=20are=20greatly=2

0exaggerated=20by=20the=20lexical=20authorities=3F=20


Is=20it=20enough=20to=20simply=20cite=20a=20lexicon=20and=20say,=20=93well=20s

o=20and=20so=20
says=85,=94=20and=20then=20continue=20on,=20as=20if=20citing=20a=20lexicon=20s

ettled=20the=20case.=20In=20
fact,=20is=20it=20not=20so=20that=20modern=20linguistic=20research=20has=20bro

ught=20many=20of=20the=20traditional=20lexicons=20
and=20grammars=20into=20question.=20There=20is=20much=20evidence=20for=20this,

=20but=20this=20is=20not=20
the=20time=20nor=20place=20to=20go=20into=20detail.=20I=20will=20only=20say=20

that=20while=20many=20of=20the=20
grammars=20and=20lexicons=20of=20the=20past=20may=20still=
20be=20useful,=20many=20of=20them=20display=20
an=20inherent=20weakness.=20This=20weakness,=20speaking=20strictly=20from=20a=

20linguistic=20
perspective,=20is=20that=20many=20of=20these=20dated=20grammars=20and=20lexico

ns=20were=20heavily=20
influenced=20by=20comparative=20philology,=20and=20hence,=20often=20approached

=20language=20
from=20a=20diachronic=20perspective.=20This=20resulted=20in=20these=20works=20

largely=20ignoring=20
synchronic=20studies=20of=20language.=20Language=20then,=20prior=20to=20the=20

advent=20of=20modern=20
linguistics,=20was=20viewed=20from=20an=20isolative=20and=20atomistic=20perspe

ctive,=20where=20
often=20exegetes=20derived=20meaning=20from=20the=20isolated=20parts=20in=20or

der=20to=20obtain=20the=20
meaning=20of=20the=20word=20in=20question=20(this=20is=20not=20to=20say=20that

=20one=20can=20never=20derive=20
a=20basic=20meaning=20from=20etymology,=20only=20that=20this=20procedure=20may

=20be=20extremely=20
misleading=20due=20to=20the=20arbitrary=20nature=20of=20language.=20Consider
=20the=20verb=20
anaginosko,=93I=20know=20up=3F=94).=20James=20Barr=20has=20rightly=20exposed=2

0the=20danger=20of=20such=20
exegetical=20ideologies.=20This=20type=20of=20ideology=20did=20not=20stop=20he

re,=20for=20often,=20
after=20deriving=20the=20meaning=20of=20the=20word=20by=20the=20etymology,=20t

his=20=93meaning=94=20of=20
the=20word=20was=20then=20transported=20to=20the=20sentence=20in=20order=20to=

20derive=20the=20meaning=20
of=20the=20sentence.=20The=20meaning=20of=20the=20sentence=20in=20turn,=20was=

20used=20to=20derive=20the=20
meaning=20of=20the=20context,=20etc.=20In=20theological=20studies,=20the=20pra

ctice=20of=20citing=20
=93proof=20words=94=20instead=20of=20=93proof=20texts=94=20became=20the=20norm

.=20Barr=20correctly=20
noted,=20=93if=20we=20are=20to=20have=20proof-words=20instead=20of=20proof-tex

ts=20I=20doubt=20if=20we=20
are=20making=20progress=94(Barr,Semantics,=20271).=20
=20=20=20The=20type=20of=20exegetical=20abuse=20that=20can=20arise=20from=20a=

20strictly=20word-bound=20
analysis=20t
akes=20a=20new=20twist=20when=20highly=20theological=20passages=20are=20at=20i

ssue,=20
leading=20some=20into=20what=20may=20be=20accurately=20described=20
as,=93Theological-Lexicography,=94=20or,=20as=20Silva=20suggest=92,=20=93Lexic

al=20
Theology=94(Mois=E9s=20Silva,=20Biblical=20Words=20and=20Their=20Meaning:An=20

Introduction=20to=20
Lexical=20Semantics,=2023).=20As=20noted,=20the=20idea=20of=20=93proof-words,=

94=20instead=20of=20
=93proof-texts,=20seems=20to=20often=20follow=20from=20such=20a=20heavy=20word

-oriented=20ideology=20
of=20the=20NT=20language.=20But=20it=20has=20been=20reported=20that=20some=20h

ave=20gone=20far=20beyond=20
the=20word-bound=20mentality,=20even=20considering=20that,=20=93New=20Testamen

t=20doctrine=20is=20
largely=20based=20on=20its=20prepositions=94(It=20is=20common=20knowledge=20th

at=20this=20remark=20is=20
usually=20attributed=20to=20B.=20F.=20Westcott=20[cf.=20Silva,=20Biblical=20Wo

rds,=2023n]).=20Such=20
an=20ideology=20was=20also=20bound=20to=20have=20an=20influence=20on=20b
ible=20translation.=20Would=20we=20have=20an=20instance=20of=20this=20where=20

a=20translator=20makes=20a=20distinction=20between=20epiginwskw=20and=20ginwsk

w=3F=20Now,=20I=20stand=20
to=20be=20corrected,=20but=20as=20far=20as=20I=20am=20aware,=20no=20=20transla

tion=20has=20done=20
this.=20While=20other=20translations=20have=20translated=20epignosisas=20=93cl

ear=20knowledge=94=20
(Weymouth;=20Goodspeed),=20=93deeper=20knowledge=94=20(Twentieth=20Century=20N

T)=20or=20
=93ever-growing=20knowledge=94=20(Barclay)(see=20their=20renderings=20of=20Col

=201:9);=20none=20
has=20translated=20every=20instance=20of=20this=20term=20in=20every=20context.

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

As=20already=20indicated=20many=20of=20the=20traditional=20works=20were=20infl

uenced=20by=20
comparative=20philology.=20In=20fact,=20one=20of=20the=20dictionaries=20that=2

0could=20have=20been=20cited=20
in=20support=20of=20your=20argument=20for=20your=20understanding=20of=20gnosis

=20and=20epignosis=20
(W.E.=20Vine,=20An=20Expository=20Dictionary=20of
=20New=20Testament=20Words=20with=20their=20
Precise=20Meanings=20for=20English=20Readers)=20was=20also=20formulated=20foll

owing=20the=20
comparative=20model,=20and=20likewise=20also=20captured=20an=20archaic=20notio

n=20of=20language=20
(absent=20from=20the=20many=20valuable=20recent=20contributions=20of=20modern=

20linguistic=20
research).=20This=20becomes=20very=20clear=20in=20the=20forward=20to=20the=20N

T=20section=20(vi)=20of=20
this=20dictionary=20where=20W.=20Graham=20seems=20to=20agree=20with=20the=20no

tion=20that=20=93New=20
Testament=20doctrine=20is=20largely=20based=20on=20its=20prepositions.=94=20.=

20Is=20this=20a=20linguistically=20indefensible=20notion.=20The=20point=20here

=20is=20that=20the=20NT=20
languages=20were=20often=20approached=20with=20an=20exaggerated=20sense=20of=2

0=93awe=94=20and=20
=93respect=94=20(I=20am=20referring=20to=20the=20language=20itself,=20not=20th

e=20content).=20
Regarding=20Rom=207:=207=20in=20comparison=20with=20Rom.=203:=2020;=20
Is=20there=20any=20reason=20to=20conclu
de=20that=20gnosis=20in=20Rom=207:7=20is=20less=20of=20an=20
"accurate=20knowledge";=20than=20the=20epignosis=20of=20Rom=203:20=3F=20It=20i

s=20important=20to=20note=20
that=20in=20Rom=207:7=20the=20author=20is=20using=20these=20terms=20in=20a=20s

imilar=20context=20where=20he=20
speaks=20about=20the=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20by=20the=20same=20law.=20Should=

20we=20think=20
that=20Paul's=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20by=20the=20law=20in=20Rom=207:7=20was=2

0not=20"exact=20knowledge"=20[i.e.=20an=20=93inexact=20knowledge=94].=20Should

=20we=20assume=20that=20this=20knowledge=20in=20Rom=207:7=20was=20less=20"exac

t"=20than=20the=20epignosis=20of=20Rom=20
3:20=3F=20
Thus=20a=20question=20is=20simply=20this:=20Does=20Paul=92s=20Knowledge=20of=2

0sin=20in=20Rom=207:7=20
display=20=93less=20exactness,=94=20than=20his=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20in=20R

om=203:20=3F=20Or,=20to=20put=20
it=20another=20way,=20is=20Paul=92s=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20in=20Rom=203:20=2

0=93more=20exact=94=20than=20
his=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20in=20Rom=207:7=3F=20
=20=20=20The=20point=20of=20Rom=203:20=20indeed=20is=20that=20through=20the=20

Law=20an=20"accurate"=20
knowledge;=20or=20a=20special=20perceived=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20could=20be=

20gained=20as=20the=20Law=20
pointed=20out=20what=20sin=20was.=20This=20however,=20is=20certainly=20not=20d

educed=20from=20the=20
etymology=20and=20the=20affixed=20preposition=20with=20gnosis,=20but=20rather=

20because=20the=20
context=20transports=20this=20sense=20to=20the=20word.=20How=20do=20we=20know=

3F=20The=20proof=20of=20this=20
is=20the=20fact=20that=20the=20same=20author,=20using=20the=20plain=20term=20g

nosis=20discusses=20the=20
very=20same=20issue=20of=20his=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20through=20the=20same=2

0law=20in=20Rom=207:7.=20
=20=20=20If=20there=20is=20in=20these=20terms=20that=20show=20a=20fine=20disti

nction=20
because=20of=20their=20etymology=20and=20morphological=20structure=20is=20corr

ect,=20then=20here=20
(Rom.=203:20=20and=20Rom=207:7)=20we=20run=20into=20a=20serious=20problem.=20T

his=20clearly=20
demons
trates=20that=20both=20terms,=20although=20different=20in=20form,=20can=20be=2

0used=20without=20
such=20notions=20of=20mandatory=20fine=20distinctions.=20


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