[b-greek] Re: Agency & Passive Iliad example

From: c stirling bartholomew (cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Fri Jun 15 2001 - 12:10:00 EDT

on 6/15/01 8:49 AM, c stirling bartholomew wrote:

>> Clay, isn't it one heck of a lot easier to understand EFHPTAI as middle
>> with KHDEA as the subject? That's the way I, at least, would understand
>> this text.
>> Remember that a neuter plural subject in earlier Greek is regularly used
>> with a singular verb.
> Carl,
> I was understanding KHDEA as the subject but NOT the agent. Both Cunliffe and
> LSJ list this instance EFHPTAI as a passive w/dative. Even if I we take
> EFHPTAI as a middle I cannot see how KHDEA can fill the semantic slot of
> agent. There still needs to be an agent unless we understand KHDEA as a some

> sort of self animated entity. So I don't see that the middle/passive choice
> really impacts the agency issue much. Perhaps I am overlooking something.
> Thanks for bringing up the subject. Your extensive and erudite discussions of
> middle/passive have been for the most part a little over my head.


An additional thought. If we understand EFHPTAI as describing a state and
not as an action brining an entity into a state then perhaps we can live
without an agent. Since saying that something is in the state of hanging
over something does not require an agent.


Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

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