[b-greek] RE: Luke 18:11 -- Iver Larsen's suggestion

From: Chet Creider (creider@csd.uwo.ca)
Date: Sun Sep 09 2001 - 06:52:42 EDT

Chet Creider:
> > BDAG:
> >
> > The 3rd edition has an extensive discussion of PROS and cites the phrase
> > in Luke 18:11 under sense 3, subsense g. Sense 3 is the familiar
> > "movement
> > or orientation toward s.o./s.t." and subsense g is "by, at,
> > near". However,
> > the actual gloss given for the phrase in Luke is "he uttered a prayer to
> > himself". This strikes me as not likely given that the verb is
Iver Larsen:
> Yes, BAGD is not helpful with this citation. The sense "by, at, near" is OK,
> though.
I think not -- see below.

> Which Greek edition are you quoting? There are manuscript variations here,
> but the latest Nestle-Aland and UBS text agree on a better and probably
> original order:
I used the 21st NA, but read Metzger on the 26th (and failed to act on
what he said)

> This order helps to clarify that PROS hEAUTON is not connected with
This is a good point, but I would prefer to say that it lends some
plausibility to a connection with STAQEIS but does not force such
a connection.

> The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed these things (to God)...
> In true Pharisee fashion he separated himself from the common man and
> especially a despised tax collector.

The problem with this suggestion is that it uses a highly idiomatic
meaning of "by" in English (and perhaps also Danish? -- I don't have
any Danish grammars at home, but is something like "staaende ved seg selv"
used also in Danish? -- writing "a med ring" with "aa"). If Luke had
used PROS hEAUTON in this sense elsewhere, one might be forced to say
it was some kind of coincidence that English/Danish and Luke's Greek
used the same idiom, but apparently the only other time he uses PROS
hEAUTON (see the discussion begun by Mike Sangrey) a very different
meaning is intended.

Chet Creider

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