[b-greek] Re: Luke 18:11 -- reading BDAG

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Mon Sep 10 2001 - 06:30:54 EDT

MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA ... I confess that I WASN'T looking at "subsense g"
because I went no further than the entries under "subsense a", which seemed
to me quite sufficient to cover the real possibilities in this instance and
it seemed to me that the items I cited were more relevant to Lk 18:11. I
still believe that's the case, but I should have read further and paid
attention to that "circled g". Yet with regard to that "circled g" I would
question whether PROS hEAUTOUS (which Danker rightly understands as "to
themselves" properly belongs in a category described as "by, at, near"--I
do think that what's relevant to that phrase has already been stated in
"circled a" back on page 874.

At 7:14 PM -0400 9/9/01, Chet Creider wrote:
>> >BDAG:
>> >
>> >The 3rd edition has an extensive discussion of PROS and cites the phrase
>> >in Luke 18:11 under sense 3, subsense g. Sense 3 is the familiar "movement
>> >or orientation toward s.o./s.t." and subsense g is "by, at, near".
>> >the actual gloss given for the phrase in Luke is "he uttered a prayer to
>> >himself". This strikes me as not likely given that the verb is PROSHUCETO.
>> >
>> >There is another subsense in BDAG to sense 3, subsense e: "with reference/
>> >regard to", "about". This sense seems most plausible to me in that it
>> >matches most closely what the Pharisee does, namely, pray about himself.
>> I think that BDAG has been slightly misrepresented here: I read
>> (substituting Arabic for the Greek lower-case subsections):
>> (3) w. acc. "marker of movement or orientation toward someone/something;
>> (a) of going;
>> (b) of sending;
>> (c) of motion generally;
>> (d) of leading, guiding;
>> (e) of saying speaking;
>> (f) of asking, praying: DEOMAI Acts 8:24;
>> EUCOMAI cf. 2 Macc 9:13; 2 Cor 13:7;
>> PROSEUCOMAI; Also after nouns like DEHSIS,
>> LOGOS et al Rom 10:1, 2 Cor 1:18 al.
>Please correct me if I am not correct, but I don't think I've misrepresented
>BDAG. All of (a) through (f) are subsenses of BDAG's "circled a" :
>3 ...marker of movement or orientation toward someone/someth.--"circled a"
>(then follow sub-sub-senses alpha through zeta -- your (a) through (f).
>Iver and I were referring to "circled g", starting at the bottom the
>first column of p.875 and not having any greek-letter sub-sub-senses.


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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