From: Carl W. Conrad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sun Oct 07 2001 - 13:06:08 EDT
At 10:05 AM -0400 10/7/01, Moon-Ryul Jung wrote:
>> >Contextually, in Romans, I think we need to go for the "not only Jews, but
>> >also the
>> >Greeks" reading. I wouldn't put it quite as starkly, but I think it's a
>> While I find Denniston a very valuable resource, I think that in Romans one
>> has to perceive it in terms of inclusiveness--or of NON-EXCLUSION of
>> either. ......Consequently I would render the
>> TE ... KAI as intensely as possible without emphasizing either of the two
>> elements over the other: either "Jews no less than Greeks ... " or "Jews
>> every bit as much as Greeks ..."
>George and Carl seem to take IOUDAIOUS TE KAI hELLHNAS in opposite
>George: not only Jews but ALSO GREEKS (1)
>Carl : JEWS NO LESS than Greeks. (2)
>In (1), the presupposition is that the proposition in question is
> considered to hold with respect to Jews.
>In (2), the presupposition is that the proposition in question is
> considered to hold with respect to Greeks.
>Denniston said that in X TE KAI Y, either the first or the second
>element gets emphasis [depending on the context].
>Does the above two renderings imply that both persons
>take the context of Rom 3:9 differently?
My own assertion was NOT (2) particularly, but rather that NEITHER was
emphasized over the other--and that's what I continue to hold.
I've gone back to look at Denniston (and again I thank Clay Bartholomew for
the precious volume!), and I think you've misread what he says: on pp.
511-12 he refers to TE ... KAI "corresponsive"--essentially "both ... and",
then on p. 515 the usage you cite, where "the emphatic expression may be
either the first or the second.", and this appears to be essentially poetic
usage. Frankly I think you're making too much of the possibility that one
of the two is emphasized over the other. I still think that what's
emphasized is the inclusiveness of both elements in the totality.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
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