[b-greek] Re: hEPTA + KIS?

From: Harry W. Jones (hjbluebird@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 21 2001 - 13:11:43 EDT

Dear Carl,

I've noticed that almost all the translations that I have looked at
tranlate hEBDOMHKONTAKIS hEPTA as "seventy times seven." But I noticed
in, s347 of Smyth that hEPTA is listed as a Cardinal and hEBDOMHKONTAKIS
is listed as an Abverb. So I was wondering about that?

Best Regards,
Harry Jones

> At 7:45 AM +0200 10/20/01, Iver Larsen wrote:
> >>
> >> No doubt this IS from the LXX of Gen 4:24, but hEBDOMHKONTAKIS hEPTA does=
> ,
> >> in fact, mean 70 x 7 =3D 490. It was not the English translator that made=
> an
> >> error here but rather, it would seem, the LXX translator; the
> >> Hebrew of Gen
> >> 4:24 reads SHIV'IM WeSHIV'A, 70 + 7 =3D 77; the LXX text doesn't have any
> >> conjunction KAI between the two numerals corresponding to the Hebrew We.
> >
> >How do you know that the LXX is in error? How would one express 77 times in
> >Greek at that time if not like the LXX? I have not been able to find any
> >examples of a compound number with -KIS similar to the one in Gen 4:24
> >anywhere else in the LXX or the NT. There may be instances other places, bu=
> t
> >I need a bit of convincing to accept that the LXX was in error. Are there
> >examples from Classical Greek sources of such a construction? I am not sure
> >the KAI is needed.
> >It is also possible that these constructions changed over time, I don't
> >know.
> I confess that I DON'T know that LXX is in error (any more than I know that
> the English translators are in error), nor can I find sufficient evidence
> to prove the case one way or the other. Apparently there are two other
> Hellenistic Jewish texts (Test. XII, Pat. Benj. 7:4 that have the reading
> 18:22.
> >Without taking time to check now, I would guess 70 x 7 times would be
> or possibly even hEBOMHKONTAKIS hEPTA (depending upon how one understands
> the "fronting" in this instance)? After consulting BDAG, BDF, ATR, etc.,
> I do find a preponderance of views in favor of reading hEBDOMHKONTAKIS
> hEPTA =3D 77--but no definitive conclusion. I am amused to observe L&N on
> this question perched firmly on the fence:
> 60.74 hEBDOMHKONTAKIS: seventy occurrences - 'seventy times.' hEWS
> hEBDOMHKONTAKIS hEPTA=BF 'up to seventy-seven times' Mt 18:22. For another
> interpretation of hEBDOMHKONTAKIS in Mt 18:22, see 60.77.
> 60.77 hEBDOMHKONTAKIS: seventy multiples of a quantity - 'seventy times.'
> hEWS hEBDOMHKONTAKIS hEPTA=BF 'seventy times seven' (a total of 490 times) M=
> t
> 18:22. One should not, however, interpret hEBDOMHKONTAKIS hEPTA=BF as
> referring to a specific number, such as 490, but simply an unusually large
> number with symbolic significance of being totally adequate or complete.8
> =46or another interpretation of hEBDOMHKONTAKIS in Mt 18:22, see 60.74.
> --
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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