From: Carl W. Conrad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue Oct 23 2001 - 20:30:36 EDT
At 2:26 PM -0700 10/23/01, c stirling bartholomew wrote:
>on 10/23/01 1:16 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:
>> You [Carl] suggested that when an MP form is followed by hUPO, it is passive
>> in meaning. That sounds reasonable.
>Tried without success to find an exception to this but did find a case where
>a gramatical passive with hUPO does not indicate an EXTERNAL agent. However
>it is still a passive and there is still an agent.
>James 1:14 hEKASTOS DE PEIRAZETAI hUPO THS IDIAS EPIQUMIAS . . .
Thanks, Clay. That calls to mind another passage that sticks of its own
accord pretty vividly in my memory, from the very opening Plato's Apology,
where Socrates says: hOTI MEN hUMEIS, W ANDRES AQHNAIOI, PEPONQATE hUPO TWN
EMWN KATHGORWN, OUK OIDA; EGW D' OUN KAI AUTOS hUP' AUTWN OLIGOU EMAUTOU
EPELAQOMHN, hOUTW PIQANWS ELEGON. Freely: "I don't know what your reaction
to my accusers was, gentlemen of Athens, but as for myself, they spoke so
persuasively that they almost made me forget who I am." The interesting
elements here, however, are: (1) hOTI PEPONQATE hUPO TWN EMWN KATHGORWN
(very literally, "what impression you experienced at the hands of my
accusers") and then (2) hUP' AUTWN OLIGOU EMAUTOU EPELAQOMHN (very
literally, "by them I almost came to forget my very self.") Note that in
(1) PEPONQATE is 'active' in form but carries a clear passive sense as the
hUPO TWN EMWN KATHGORWN makes clear, and in (2) EPELAQOMHN is 'middle' in
form but carries a clear passive sense as the hUP' AUTWN makes clear.
Generally the hUPO + genitive is a clue that we are being shown the
'efficient agent' of the action or experience described by the verb.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
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