[b-greek] Re: Luke 18.11 et al. (PROSEUXOMAI + PROS)

From: hefin jones (hefinjones@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Dec 12 2001 - 05:21:06 EST


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Unfortunately I don't have access to my Luke commentaries (or even the greek
text!) at the moment but the ironic TO HIMSELF is taken seriously by either
IH Marshall or JGreen. Personally I wonder whether a spatial sense is
indicated by the parallelism of sorts that exists with the MAKROQEN
describing the toll-man.

Hefin Jones

Normally Sydney, currently West Wales.


>From: "Carl W. Conrad
>Polycarp66@aol.com wrote:
> >While working on some web pages I was making a popup reference for one of
>the
> >pages regarding this verse. As I was doing this I had a rather perverse
> >thought. What does this really mean? Normally we have understood it to
>mean
> >that the Pharasee was standing BY HIMSELF praying. I wonder if it might
>be
> >understood to mean that he was praying TO HIMSELF.
> >
> >11 hO FARISAIOW STAQEIW PROS hEAYTON TAUTA PROSHUXETO, "hO QEOS EYXRISTW
>SOI
> >hOTI OYK EIMI hWSPER hOI LOIPOI TWN ANQRWPWN, hRPAGES, ADIKOI, MOIXOI, H
>KAI
> >hWS hOUTOS hO TELWNHS."
> >
> >In support of this possibility, I give you Gen 20.17
> >
> >17 PROSHUCATO DE ABRAAM PROS TON QEON, KAI IASATO hO QEOS TON ABIMELEX
>KAI
> >THN GUNAIKA AUTOU KAI TAS PAIDISKAS AUTOU, KAI ETKON,
> >
> >So, what do you think? Is this a reasonable interpretation?
>
>Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Have you noted that KJV has:
>
> "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that
>I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as
>this publican."
>
>where "with himself" is certainly meant to be construed with "was praying."
>It could very well be ironic even, that his prayer was really directed
>toward himself, and NOT toward God.
>
>(and by the way, thanks and congratulations)
>--
>
>




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