[b-greek] Re: Fwd: Re: Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon

From: Harry W. Jones (hjbluebird@aol.com)
Date: Sat Dec 22 2001 - 06:15:52 EST


Dear Paul,

I appreciate everone's help on my question. And all
I'm trying to do is find out if anyones knows of
any "main" definition of Thayer's being incorrect
due to any discoveries of papyri after Thayer's
lexicon was published? So far, it looks like according
to the current consensus that no "main" definition of
Thayer's is incorrect.

Best Regards,
Harry Jones

> CWC: I'm forwarding this message for Paul Wendland rather than wait for
> reformatting of it because it's timely on the current thread on a
> relatively inactive list.
>
> >Reply-To: "Paul O. Wendland" <wendlanp@wls.wels.net>
> >From: "Paul O. Wendland" <wendlanp@wls.wels.net>
> >To: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> >Subject: [b-greek] Re: Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon
> >Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:42:09 -0600
> >
> >Harry:
> >
> >I don't think the problem is so much one of erroneous definitions. I
> >think Thayer in many ways is a fine and useful dictionary. He did his
> >work at a time before the results of the research in the papyri were
> >widely accepted and thus at a time when many scholars were still clinging
> >to the belief there was something especially exalted about the vocabulary
> >and syntax of the New Testament. A kind of special Holy Ghost language.
> >So Thayer identified a number of words as being "unique" to Biblical Greek
> >which Diessman (Light from the Ancient East, chapter 2, p, 65ff )
> >correctly points out as being used by very ordinary people writing on
> >papyri. You still run across the same thing today at times when folks
> >overstate the suppleness of the Greek language as if "only Greek" were
> >capable of expressing such sublime thoughts.
> >
> >Thayer also has a particular love for etymologies--which I happen
> >to enjoy, too, but which every linguist today knows aren't as helpful in
> >detemining the boundaries of a word's semantic domain as its current
> >usage. For example, he talks about ecclesia in terms of the "called out
> >ones" and you can just imagine what tocattas and fugues of meaning this
> >etymology has produced in some sermons I have heard. More modern
> >dictionaries are far more subdued in this respect. This is why the papyri
> >are so vital--they help establish the usage of words at the time of
> >Christ. And yes, this does mean at times that Thayer does lack some
> >definitions that more up to date dictionaries supply. For example, the
> >expression epi to auto in Acts 2:47 very likely means "to the total"
> >(since it's used with prostiqenai) and not "in the same place," or "to the
> >same place" which are the only definitions you'll find for the expression
> >in Thayer. Reason? This meaning was identified from a papyrus bill on
> >which epi to auto clearly has the meaning "sum total," or "total" (see
> >Moulton Milligan Vocabulary of the Greek NT, page 94). And either BADG,
> >BDAG, or (I imagine even) BAG would have it. I checked Liddell & Scott 9,
> >too, and I didn't find it (though I confess, it may be simply a case of
> >bad eyesight.)
> >
> >Does Thayer err? Well, let's put it this way: if you don't have BAGD or
> >BDAG, you won't be aware of some possible meanings that are out there.
> >And you might, at times, be led into believing something wonderful about a
> >word through Thayer's etymologizing, which nevertheless might not be true.
> >Still, it all depends what you want from a dictionary, and how precise and
> >complete you want it to be. My guess is that 99 times out of a 100,
> >Thayer will be just fine. And if Thayer is all you have, and you like him
> >(familiarity with a dictionary is also no mean thing), well then: use him
> >with joy.
> >
> >Paul O. Wendland

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