[b-greek] Re: Mark 6:22

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Mon Dec 24 2001 - 15:23:29 EST


At 2:11 PM -0500 12/24/01, Richard Ghilardi wrote:
>Dear Carl,
>
>Thank you for your splendid break-down for intensive AUTOS.
>
>But there were a few things in your post that still left me wondering.
>
>You wrote:
>
><< Well, I did it with Accordance, although it took a little while to
>analyze the results. What I found:...>>
>
>Steven Lo Vullo did it with Accordance too and found 376 instances while
>you only list 63 by my count. I don't get it.

There are 376 instances of AUTOS in the GNT tagged as "intensive"--but that
includes instances of AUTOS as 3rd person pronoun nom. sg. of hO AUTOS
meaning "same" and of AUTOS used to intensify the implicit subject of a 3rd
person verb (the classical AUTOS EFH spoken proverbially of Epicurus and of
Pythagoras, "he himself said so"). I counted only instances of AUTOS used
with nouns or pronouns so that position of AUTOS before or after the
substantive could be counted.

>You also wrote:
>
><< I'd say the evidence supports exactly what I would have expected: that
>AUTOS as an intensive pronoun normally PRECEDES the substantive which it
>governs, even if it may not uncommonly FOLLOW upon a personal pronoun;
>there is nothing problematic with AUTHS THS hHRWDIADOS as a genitive
>phrase meaning "of Herodias herself."
>I would agree that the Greek is awkward--the long string of genitives
>dependent upon other genitives--but the Byzantine text you're looking at
>is nevertheless intelligible and grammatically sound to mean: "and when
>the daughter of Herodias herself entered ..." >>
>
>I agree that the Greek is intelligible and grammatically sound, but I'm
>still unsure what exactly AUTHS intensifies. Is it THS hHRWDIADOS, or THS
>QUGATROS or THS QUGATROS THS hHRWDIADOS? It's medial position would seem
>to indicate the third alternative.

I don't quite understand the third alternative; certainly it's conceivable
that it's a simple 3rd person pronoun qualifying THS QUGATROS: "her
daughter", but then to whom does AUTHS refer? Are we to read it with THS
hHRWDIADOS as appositional to the pronoun AUTHS ("of her, Herodias"), that
seems to me even more awkward than what we now have, and as the position of
an intensive immediately preceding an arthrough proper name is perfectly
normal Greek, why are we looking to explain difficile per difficilius? Are
you eager to justify the Byzantine text over against the critical text
which simply reads, in one fine genitive absolute construction: KAI
EISELQOUSHS THS QUGATROS AUTOU hHRWiDIADOS KAI ORCHSAMENHS

I note that NET translates thus: 6:22 When his daughter Herodias #30 came
in and danced, she pleased Herod and his dinner guests. The king said to
the girl, "Ask me for whatever you want and I will give it to you."

and the note (#30) says:

30tc This reading represents a difficult textual problem. The reading
adopted in the translation, (THS QUGATROS AUTOU hHRWiDIADOS), is supported
by Í B D et pauci; it is also the most difficult reading internally since
it names the girl as Herodias and describes her as Herod's daughter. Other
readings are less awkward, but they do not have adequate external support.
The reading THS QUGATROS AUTHS THS hHERWDIADOS ("the daughter of Herodias
herself") is supported by A C Q Ë13 33 Byz, but this is also grammatically
awkward. The easiest reading, THS QUGATROS THS hHRWiDIADOS ("the daughter
of Herodias") is supported by Ë1, but this reading probably arose from an
accidental omission of AUTHS in the previous reading. The reading th'"
qugatroV" aujtou' JHrw/diavdo", despite its difficulties, is most likely
original due to external attestation and the fact that it most likely gave
rise to the other readings
--

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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