[b-greek] Re: Mark 6:22

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Mon Dec 31 2001 - 17:33:22 EST


At 3:46 PM -0500 12/31/01, Richard Ghilardi wrote:
>Dear Carl and b-greekers,

I'm not altogether sure that anybody is paying any attention to this
dialogue other than yourself and myself (EI MH AUTOS SU KAI AUTOS EGW). And
in fact I was wondering whether there'd be any traffic on the list at all
on this New Year's Eve, but since you've posted TO the list, I'll send my
little response to the list also. But I'm going to delete some of the prior
discussion and focus solely upon the final disagreement, just to make sure
that we either DO or DON'T misunderstand each other.

>MK 6:22 -- EISELQOUSHS THS QUGATROS AUTHS [AUTOU] hHRWiDIADOS KAI
>ORCHSAMENHS HRESEN TWi hHRWiDHi...

[earlier exchanges omitted]

>I have never given a thought (much less expression) to the notion that
>AUTHS might be "a simple 3rd person pronoun". I have been maintaining
>that AUTHS is an intensive pronoun right along. Your splendid break-down
>of the intensive use does indeed show, in the preponderance of cases,
>that the pronoun precedes the noun it intensifies. But in some cases, it
>follows. So I suggest that because AUTHS is found between THS QUGATROS
>and THS hHRWiDIADOS it does not merely intensify THS hHRWiDIADOS, as you
>think, but the entire phrase, THS QUGATROS THS hHRWiDIADOS. Why should
>Herodias ALONE be highlighted in this context? Does not the emphasis
>rather fall on "the DAUGHTER of Herodias" and at the same time on "the
>daughter of HERODIAS"? Thus, the medial position of the intensive pronoun
>AUTHS. I would render it thus:
>
>"When the very daughter of Herodias entered..."

The way I read this version of yours, "very" refers to daughter, not to the
entire phrase; and it looks to me like you're really taking AUTHS as
intensive referring to QUGATROS alone, NOT to the entire phrase; that is:
AUTHS refers to THS QUGATROS and intensifies it, while THS hHRWiDIADOS is
simply a possessive genitive depending upon QUGATROS.

>Since the simple personal possessive pronoun is out of the question, I
>don't see any "difficile per difficilius" involved here.

I used that phrase because it seemed to me unlikely that AUTHS would follow
THS QUGATROS rather than precede THS hHRWiDIADOS. It appears to me that no
critic is very comfortable with the text presented by any MS tradition. And
I still don't see how AUTHS can function to govern the entire phrase THS
QUGATROS THS hHRWIDIADOS, even by virue of it's placement between THS
QUGATROS and THS hHRWiDIADOS. To me personally that seems not only
difficilius but difficillimum.

>I don't know why, Carl, we so often misunderstand each other. I'm not
>naive enough to think it's wholly due to the nature of the medium.

I'm not sure what we mean by this, but I will confess that I was altogether
confounded by your notion of a "third alternative" and still don't
understand it.

Perhaps this is a matter we'd best simply agree to disagree about.
--

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University (Emeritus)
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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