[b-greek] Re: Mt 15.27 and Mk 7:26

From: Rbsads@aol.com
Date: Sat Feb 23 2002 - 14:58:30 EST


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3>Thanks for the responses. &nbsp;Regarding my question concerning the subject-verb agreement, the first response had reminded me of reading in the basic Greek books that I have studied that plural neuter nominatives can take singular verbs. &nbsp;Evidently I had not encountered that structure such that it had stuck with me. &nbsp;Thanks for the kind, and gentle, reminders.
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<BR>The matter of the translation of YAR, though seems to require a distinction which has so far evaded me. &nbsp;I have not been able to grasp the distinctions between purpose, result, grounds, and reason. &nbsp;These same distinctions are made with sugjunctives, infinitives, and conjunctions. &nbsp;I am sure that they will come again in my studies, and perhaps I will eventually come to appreciate the distinctions.
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<BR>It seems certain that such distinctions are intuitive in my native English language. For instance, the varied uses of "that."
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<BR>But the uses of YAR are listed in my text as reason, grounds, explanation, emphasis (which seems to me to be covered generally by the preceding uses) and transition.
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<BR>Regardless of the nuances of reason and grounds, they do not seem to fit the context of this passage that seems to be more of a polemic contrast, more suited perhaps to DE.
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<BR>Young's chapter on the conjunctions lists possible uses as emphasis and transition, either of which seem more suitable to the verse in my unread mind.
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<BR>"Yes Lord, now even the dogs eat" - transition
<BR>"Yes Lord, surely even the dogs ear' - emphasis
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<BR>It seems to stretch the expression to read YAR as "but," unless there is useage beyond the explanations I have found in the text I am using.
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<BR>The point about the potential influence of different languages is very interesting. Perhaps the use of YAR is from a translation of the original version. (Here I am assuming Matthew's use of sources, which may not be acceptable as a discussion assumption on this list.)
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<BR>The impact of languages differences between Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and even Latin is becoming more and more fascinating to me as I begin to learn to read only a little Greek. Word equivalency is not always available for translation.
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<BR>Also helpful was Carl's post about learning older versions of Greek and seeking to understand the language in a larger cultural and historical context.
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<BR>For instance, what is the general meaning of CARIS in the Koine Greek culture. &nbsp;What nuances of general cultural meaning was Paul using to describe his thoughts which he described by his uses of CARIS? &nbsp;And in what ways was Paul intending to change the culture's understanding of what they understood by CARIS?
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<BR>We are so ready to apply our full modern theological understanding of grace to each passage in the NT. &nbsp;What did Paul mean by that word? &nbsp;Was it in some way a translation of HESED?
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<BR>A related question is how was PISTIS understood by the general culture, moving from Plato's use to the many variations of meaning which "faith" has today. What did Paul understand by PISTIS? How did he transform that word in the minds of his readers?
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<BR>Strong's Concordance lists CHEN as a Hebrew word for grace, meaning kindness or beauty, but it seems to me that HESED comes closer to Paul's meaning for CARIS. There are not many instances listed in Strong's of a word for faith in the Hebrew/Old Testament bible.
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<BR>There are several words which have become the technical language of theology. &nbsp;It would be interesting to know how they were used before they gained their technical connotations, by which we interpret them today.
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<BR>How would a better understanding of the early connotations enable our reading of the passages by granting insight into the author's original intent, into how the author's use challenged readers to new understandings, into how our own understandings have changed from the original teaching?
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<BR>The ramblings of a new student.
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<BR>Thanks,
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<BR>Richard Smith
<BR>Chattanooga, TN
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