From: Ann Nyland (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sun Mar 03 2002 - 18:17:16 EST
I share your sentiments about "puritanical biases" but LSJ do state for
EUTRAPELIA "also in bad sense" and cite Plato, Rep. 563. For EUTRAPELOS they
have an entry "=BWMOLOCOS, jesting, ribald, as Isocr. 149 D" as well as
"tricky, dishonest, Pind.P. 4.186."
P.W. van der Horst has an excellent study of EUTRAPELIA, Miscellanea
Neotestamentica 2 (1978) 163-90. Spicq discusses EUTRAPELIA at 3.322-25.
(Turner has ignored van der Horst's study and states "Christians have given
eutrapelia a bad sense."
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Storm" <email@example.com>
To: "Biblical Greek" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Monday, 4 March 2002 5:31
Subject: [b-greek] EUTRAPELIA
> In Ephesians 5.4 EUTRAPELIA is translated generally as "coarse joking
> (jesting)". I maintain that this is an incorrect translation in that it
> seems to imply dirty jokes or lewd comments. I looked it up in LSJ9 a few
> months ago--my copy is currently in storage--and it defines the word as
> "witticism", or a clever turn of phrase, as I recall. It further says that
> the term is always used positively in the Classical period, and only
> negatively in the Ephesians passage.
> BDAG says that in the Classical period it meant "wittiness,
> but in Ephesians it means "coarse jesting, risque wit".
> It seems to me that translators are letting their puritanical biases
> (though maybe I am biased). But it seems to me that if the word meant
> witticism in the Classical period, then it probably means a "harmful
> witticism" in Eph. So it is hardly "coarse" jesting or lewd. It would seem
> to mean the use of a clever and refined witticism at the expense of
> Any thoughts?
> D. Anthony Storm
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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