[b-greek] RE: rompheas volantes 2Esdr. 15:41

From: Vincent M. Setterholm (Vincents@minn.net)
Date: Fri Apr 05 2002 - 18:27:22 EST


There are biblical references to swords-as-lightening. Ezekiel 21:15,28 etc.
Not sure if that helps you out.

Vincent Setterholm



-----Original Message-----
From: c stirling bartholomew [mailto:cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:50 PM
To: Biblical Greek
Subject: [b-greek] rompheas volantes 2Esdr. 15:41


I was reading T. Bergren's* English translation of 6th Ezra (2Esdr 15-16)
and ran into an idiom which was new to me, "flying swords" (rompheas
volantes**) in 2Esdr 15:41 . This launched me on a search of the LXX for the
same idiom. The best I could come up with was: EN TWi PETASQAI THN
hROMFAIAN MOU, found in:

EZEK. 32:10 KAI STUGNASOUSIN EPI SE EQNH POLLA KAI hOI BASILEIS AUTWN
EKSTASEI EKSTHSONTAI EN TWi PETASQAI THN hROMFAIAN MOU EPI PROSWPA AUTWN
PROSDECOMENOI THN PTWSIN AUTWN AF' hHMERAS PTWSEWS SOU

Zech 5:1-2, DREPANON PETOMENON , certainly NOT the same idiom, but an
intriguing mistranslation of the MT.

ZECH. 5:1 KAI EPESTREYA KAI HRA TOUS OFQALMOUS MOU KAI EIDON KAI IDOU
DREPANON PETOMENON
ZECH. 5:2 KAI EIPEN PROS ME TI SU BLEPEIS KAI EIPA EGW hORW DREPANON
PETOMENON MHKOS PHCEWN EIKOSI KAI PLATOS PHCEWN DEKA

Reading the context in 6th Ezra (2Esdr 15-16) reveals this idiom within what
might be modeled after an OT storm theophany. I kept thinking of Apollo
while reading this and also the OT storm (theophany ?) texts. I am wondering
if rompheas volantes was intended as a metaphor for lightening. I have only
seen lightening symbolized as arrows, not swords so I am somewhat of a loss
as how to understand this. Also, I am not sure if this is modeled after a
Semitic or a Hellenistic storm text. The imagery is sufficiently generic to
fit into either category.

Anyone ever seen a Hellenistic references to lightening as flying swords?

greetings,

Clay

--
Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

*Bergren, Theodore A. Sixth Ezra, The Text and Origin
Oxford University Press New York 1998

**Vulgate of
2Esdr. 15:40 et exaltabuntur nubes magnae et validae plenae irae et sidus ut
exterant omnem terram et inhabitantes eam et fundent super omnem altum et
eminentem sidus terribile
2Esdr. 15:41 ignem et grandinem et rompheas volantes et aquas multas ut
etiam impleantur omnes campi et omnes rivi a plenitudine aquarum illarum
2Esdr. 15:42 et demolient civitates et muros et montes et colles et ligna
silvarum et faena pratorum et frumenta eorum
2Esdr. 15:43 et transibunt constanter usque Babylonem et exterent eam
2Esdr. 15:44 convenient ad ipsam et circuibunt eam et effundent sidus et
omnem iram super eam et subibit pulvis et fumus usque ad caelum et omnes in
circuitu lugebunt eam
2Esdr. 15:45 et qui subremanserint servientes his qui eam exteruerunt

**RSV translation of Vulgate

2Esdr. 15:40 And great and mighty clouds, full of wrath and tempest, shall
rise, to destroy all the earth and its inhabitants, and shall pour out upon
every high and lofty place a terrible tempest,
2Esdr. 15:41 fire and hail and flying swords and floods of water, that all
the fields and all the streams may be filled with the abundance of those
waters.
2Esdr. 15:42 And they shall destroy cities and walls, mountains and hills,
trees of the forests, and grass of the meadows, and their grain.
2Esdr. 15:43 And they shall go on steadily to Babylon, and shall destroy
her.
2Esdr. 15:44 They shall come to her and surround her; they shall pour out
the tempest and all its wrath upon her; then the dust and smoke shall go up
to heaven, and all who are about her shall wail over her.
2Esdr. 15:45 And those who survive shall serve those who have destroyed her.



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