From patrick@durusau.net Wed Apr  4 07:48:22 2007
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:47:37 -0400
From: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net>
Subject: Re: Processing DIS 29500 (OOXML)
In-reply-to: 
 <OF72E0954C.A744A7DB-ON852572B3.0047F963-852572B3.0049E1E2@lotus.com>
To: robert_weir@us.ibm.com
Cc: Dave Welsh <dave.welsh@microsoft.com>,
        Doug Mahugh <Doug.Mahugh@microsoft.com>,
        Frank Farance <frank@farance.com>, Jerry Smith <jerry.smith@disa.mil>,
        Jon Bosak <jon.bosak@sun.com>,
        "Levine, Leonard F CIV DISA GES-E" <Leonard.Levine@disa.mil>,
        "Price, Lynne" <lprice@ix.netcom.com>,
        "Mason, James David (MXM)" <masonjd@y12.doe.gov>,
        Norm Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>, Rex Jaeschke <rex@RexJaeschke.com>,
        Richard Barber <Richard.Barber@mindjet.com>,
        Ron Silletti <silletti@us.ibm.com>,
        Steve Carton <steve.carton@retrievalsystems.com>,
        Tim Schoechle <timothy@schoechle.org>
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Rob,

robert_weir@us.ibm.com wrote:

>
> A lot to think of here.
>
> To your list I'd add a private web page or ftp site for posting large 
> documents, such as related ISO standards, or even the DIS 29500 
> materials linked to in this ballot, which I understand is different 
> than the version submitted to JTC1 originally.   So we all need access 
> to the current materials.
>
I will be talking to my handlers late today. Let me see what we can do 
about a password protected page for documents, including the standards 
that I obtained on the contradiction issues.

I may rummage around and see if my website supports creation of password 
protected pages, I am sure it does but I have to find the account 
information.  I don't use it a lot since I went to work for the guys in 
Colorado.

> As for public comments, we definitely should think about how to do 
> this efficiently.  I know that other NB's were inundated with 
> comments, often to their business or personal email addresses.  If we 
> can avoid the chaos while at the same time being responsive to the 
> public, this would be preferred.  Whether we want it or not, public 
> comments will come.  The question is whether we want to take steps now 
> to make this a more orderly process?
>
+1 on having an orderly process!

> Are you able to get to ISO_CommentsTemplate.zip, which is the template 
> for entering comments?  I'd recommend that we submit our final 
> comments in ODF if possible.  We can map the data model of the 
> template to conventions for the email comments, such as your 
> "pd:1:11.3.1 Alternative Format Import Part" example, and generate the 
> ODF document automatically from the email comments.
>
I have attached the ISO_CommentsTemplate.zip file to this post.

In the past we have submitted comments in HTML or PDF.

I have posted a note to INCITS about the use of ODF as a submission 
format for our comments.

Do note that ISO has rules on documents submitted for processing as 
standards as well as other documents but it doesn't mention comments.

http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3146825/4229629/guidelines/provfile_e.pdf

Hope you are having a great day!

Patrick

> -Rob
> ___________________________
>
> Rob Weir
> Software Architect
> Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
> IBM Software Group
>
> email: robert_weir@us.ibm.com
> phone: 1-978-399-7122
> blog: http://www.robweir.com/blog/
>
>
> *Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net>*
>
> 04/04/2007 08:29 AM
> Please respond to
> patrick@durusau.net
>
>
> 	
> To
> 	Frank Farance <frank@farance.com>, Jon Bosak <jon.bosak@sun.com>, 
> "Price, Lynne" <lprice@ix.netcom.com>, Dave Welsh 
> <dave.welsh@microsoft.com>, Doug Mahugh <Doug.Mahugh@microsoft.com>, 
> Rex Jaeschke <rex@RexJaeschke.com>, Steve Carton 
> <steve.carton@retrievalsystems.com>, Jerry Smith 
> <jerry.smith@disa.mil>, Norm Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>, Richard Barber 
> <Richard.Barber@mindjet.com>, Robert Weir <robert_weir@us.ibm.com>, 
> "Levine, Leonard F CIV DISA GES-E" <Leonard.Levine@disa.mil>, Tim 
> Schoechle <timothy@schoechle.org>, "Mason, James David (MXM)" 
> <masonjd@y12.doe.gov>, Ron Silletti <silletti@us.ibm.com>
> cc
> 	
> Subject
> 	Processing DIS 29500 (OOXML)
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings!
>
> As I noted in my post yesterday, we have until June 17, 2007 to prepare
> the recommended position on DIS 29500.
>
> Having slept on it I have some more specific suggestions on how we
> should proceed.
>
> 1. Obviously we need a mail reflector for V1 members. I will talk to
> Frank Farance about this but I do have a question:
>
> Should we have a public archive of our discussions?
>
> My personal opinion is yes since the ISO standards process is supposed
> to be "transparent." I take that to mean that the discussions in that
> process should be available to anyone who wants to see them.
>
> 2. Do we need a public list for the submission of comments from members
> of the public?
>
> OASIS has such lists and I can attest that they have been helpful any
> number of times in finding bugs in standards.
>
> I am less certain that we need an email list in the traditional sense
> because feelings are running high enough on all sides to make an open
> list too much traffic to be useful.
>
> On the other hand, a widely publicized webpage for comments that forces
> choice of a part and section, so that the comments can be automatically
> sorted could be really useful. I don't have any illusions about our
> committee being able to review every nook and cranny of DIS 29500.
>
> The results from such a webpage should be public for the same reasons as
> the proposed discussion list for the committee.
>
> 3. Comments by V1 Members
>
> I have reviewed the membership list and at least at this point we all
> appear to have unique initials.
>
> My suggestion on comments is that we use the subject line to contain our
> initials, followed by a colon, followed by the part, colon and then the
> section number and heading of the portion of OOXML we are commenting on.
> Thus,
>
> pd:1:11.3.1 Alternative Format Import Part
>
> That will be very helpful in terms of marshalling all the comments and
> responses on a particular section for discussion.
>
> I don't have a definitive date on the OOXML topic map that my handlers
> are preparing under my direction and I don't want to wait until that is
> certain one way or the other to setup mechanisms for our discussions. If
> the software proves useful for the committee, we can always import any
> data we have generated by that point anyway.
>
> 4. Processing comments and developing the US recommended position
>
> I think we need a two-stage process for the development of the US
> recommended position.
>
> a. We need to process the comments and decide if we accept the comments,
> without deciding on what impact any particular comment has on the
> ultimate recommended position. That will enable us to develop a basis on
> which to formulate our ultimate position.
>
> b. After processing of our comments, then we use those comments as the
> basis for our recommendation on the US position.
>
> 5. Sharing V1 comments with other NBs.
>
> The formulation of the recommended US position may or may not include
> comments. However, I would like to suggest that as we develop our
> position on particular comments, I would like to share those with other
> NBs. Given the size and complexity of the proposal, being aware of our
> comments may cause other NBs to develop comments on areas that we have
> not had time to consider.
>
> 6. Evaluation and adoption of comments
>
> I really don't know how many comments we are going to generate as V1
> members nor how many comments will appear from members of the public.
>
> There are several ways we can process the comments.
>
> Although I distrust wikis, it might not be a bad idea to post the
> comments to a wiki where only V1 members could vote and we can both
> comment as well as indicate our vote of yes or no on each issue. From
> what I understand of Drupal, it has the ability to control who votes and
> to show the results of the votes.
>
> In the absence of the soon to appear topic map software that might be a
> better processing model than what I have suggested above.
>
> Noting that in any event I will have to use the INCITS comment template
> to prepare whatever comments are accepted by the committee to be
> included with the ballot results reflecting our ultimate position.
>
> I am not opposed to having weekly teleconferences, say on Fridays, to
> discuss a given set of comments.
>
> 7. Recommendation (yes, you were looking for this part)
>
> I suspect that as we near the end of the process we are going to need a
> face to face meeting to go over the final set of comments accepted by
> the committee and to develop our recommendation.
>
> Not knowing how many comments we will accept or the nature of those
> comments, it is hard for me to say how long such a meeting would last.
>
> I do think that we need to have teleconferencing facilities so any
> members who cannot physically attend can be present for the meeting.
>
> Noting that the ballot is due on 17 June 2007, might we consider having
> a face to face starting on the 14th or 15th of June?
>
> By that point we should have a set of comments that have been agreed
> upon by V1 and I assume that we will want to refine those and develop
> our final recommendation.
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
> Hope everyone is having a great day!
>
> Patrick
>
> -- 
> Patrick Durusau
> Patrick@Durusau.net
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005
>
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>
>
>

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Patrick@Durusau.net
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work! 


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