From owner-incits-v1@incits-v1.org Sat Jul 14 11:52:49 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SXd0BHVck5cUmCY9AONQRQ)" Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:51:02 -0400 From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com Subject: Re: [Spam] RE: INCITS-V1: PLEASE PROOF: Draft Minutes of the V1 Meeting on 2007-07-13 In-reply-to: <410655504-1184437330-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2055352908-@bxe113.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sender: owner-incits-v1@incits-v1.org To: incits-v1@incits-v1.org Reply-to: incits-v1@incits-v1.org X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on WTFMAIL03/WTF/M/Lotus(Release 6.5.6FP1|April 24, 2007) at 07/14/2007 02:51:03 PM, Serialize complete at 07/14/2007 02:51:03 PM X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SXd0BHVck5cUmCY9AONQRQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Brendan, I'm not suggesting that your opinions are not genuine or that your vote is not representing your true interests. But I do maintain that Microsoft stuffed the committee and that the membership of the committee has been dominated by Microsoft interests, and that the committee does not represent an industry consensus. I believe that a little reflection will show that these are not mutually exclusive statements. Regards, -Rob _________________________ Rob Weir Software Architect Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software IBM Software Group email: robert_weir@us.ibm.com phone: 1-978-399-7122 blog: http://www.robweir.com/blog/ "Brendan Reilly" Sent by: owner-incits-v1@incits-v1.org 07/14/2007 02:21 PM Please respond to incits-v1@incits-v1.org To incits-v1@incits-v1.org cc Subject Re: [Spam] RE: INCITS-V1: PLEASE PROOF: Draft Minutes of the V1 Meeting on 2007-07-13 Rob, I believe your email is completely inappropriate and insulting to me, my company and all those who would like to gain consensus on this issue. I for one can think for myself and voted the way I believe is the best way to move this topic foward. Brendan Reilly President Z5 Technologies . Sent via BlackBerry from Brendan Reilly -----Original Message----- From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:09:35 To:incits-v1@incits-v1.org Subject: [Spam] RE: INCITS-V1: PLEASE PROOF: Draft Minutes of the V1 Meeting on 2007-07-13 owner-incits-v1@incits-v1.org wrote on 07/14/2007 01:40:16 PM: > > Rob, I have a hard time following the logic you're using here. Why > should we try to build consensus for the LEAST popular of the three > options we voted on? That seems to fly in the face of common sense, > if our goal is truly to build a position that represents the > consensus of the members. > "Popular" and "consensus" have somewhat distorted meanings when we're talking about a committee that Microsoft stuffed with a dozen business partners at the last minute, who then voted lock-step with them on every ballot. Remember INCITS is intended to reflect an industry view, not favoring any one company or interest. I suppose, Doug, that you would have been happier if you had found just one more Microsoft Gold Certified Partner to join the committee, so then you could say you had "consensus" on a Yes position? Sorry, but this is a farce. The fact that you did not get a 2/3 vote is more from Microsoft's incompetence in stuffing the committee than for lack of discussion time. Better luck next time. It takes a lot of chutzpah to stuff the committee and then complain about lack of consensus. -Rob --Boundary_(ID_SXd0BHVck5cUmCY9AONQRQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi Brendan,

I'm not suggesting that your opinions are not genuine or that your vote is not representing your true interests.  But I do maintain that Microsoft stuffed the committee and that the membership of the committee has been dominated by Microsoft interests, and that the committee does not represent an industry consensus.  I believe that a little reflection will show that these are not mutually exclusive statements.

Regards,

-Rob
_________________________

Rob Weir
Software Architect
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Software Group

email: robert_weir@us.ibm.com
phone: 1-978-399-7122
blog: http://www.robweir.com/blog/



"Brendan Reilly" <breilly@tkadvisors.com>
Sent by: owner-incits-v1@incits-v1.org

07/14/2007 02:21 PM
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Re: [Spam] RE: INCITS-V1: PLEASE PROOF: Draft Minutes of the V1 Meeting on 2007-07-13





Rob,

I believe your email is completely inappropriate and insulting to me, my company and all those who would like to gain consensus on this issue.  I for one can think for myself and voted the way I believe is the best way to move this topic foward.

Brendan Reilly
President
Z5 Technologies
.

Sent via BlackBerry from Brendan Reilly
   

-----Original Message-----
From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com

Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:09:35
To:incits-v1@incits-v1.org
Subject: [Spam] RE: INCITS-V1: PLEASE PROOF: Draft Minutes of the V1 Meeting on 2007-07-13

owner-incits-v1@incits-v1.org wrote on 07/14/2007 01:40:16 PM:

>
> Rob, I have a hard time following the logic you're using here.  Why
> should we try to build consensus for the LEAST popular of the three
> options we voted on?  That seems to fly in the face of common sense,
> if our goal is truly to build a position that represents the
> consensus of the members.
>


"Popular" and "consensus" have somewhat distorted meanings when we're talking about a committee that Microsoft stuffed with a dozen business partners at the last minute, who then voted lock-step with them on every ballot.  Remember INCITS is intended to reflect an industry view, not favoring any one company or interest.  I suppose, Doug, that you would have been happier if you had found just one more Microsoft Gold Certified Partner to join the committee, so then you could say you had "consensus" on a Yes position?  Sorry, but this is a farce.  The fact that you did not get a 2/3 vote is more from Microsoft's incompetence in stuffing the committee than for lack of discussion time. Better luck next time.

It takes a lot of chutzpah to stuff the committee and then complain about lack of consensus.

-Rob


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