Subject: Re: [Permaculture International] Vegetables and Protein

From: John Schinnerer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:18:33 -1000

Aloha,

> Protein?  The stuff that flesh is made from.  As in proteins, 
> carbohydrates and fats.  Amino acids in appropriate combinations for 
> human diet.

Aha, he took the bait... :-)

Protein:
"1 : any of various naturally occurring extremely complex substances 
that consist of amino-acid residues joined by peptide bonds, contain the 
elements carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, usually sulfur, and 
occasionally other elements (as phosphorus or iron), and include many 
essential biological compounds (as enzymes, hormones, or antibodies)
2 : the total nitrogenous material in plant or animal substances"

So in short, proteins are certain types of complex molecules.
There is a huge mythology of half-truths, propaganda and complete 
misunderstandings about "protein" in terms of human food and health.

As Jeavons and others will illuminate, what it comes down to is this:

Our bodies store "surpluses" of various amino acids.
These amino acids are obtained from our food intake.
When our bodies need to construct all the various kinds of protein 
molecules (muscle, hair, etc. etc.) involved in our bodies, they obtain 
the necessary amino acids from these surpluses.

When we eat food containing pre-existing protein molecules of whatever 
sort, our bodies break those molecules down in order to get at the amino 
acids and then re-use them (or store them as "surplus") for our bodies' 
protein construction. No pre-existing protein molecules are used 
directly by our bodies - they are broken down and then the protein 
molecules in our bodies are rebuilt from the extracted amino acids and 
other needed bits and pieces.

All our bodies need to construct all the proteins necessary for our 
bodies' maintenance is an adequate supply of the necessary amino acids 
and other elements. In terms of our bodies building the proteins they 
need, it makes no difference what the source of the amino acids was. 
They just need to be available and/or extractable.

So all one needs for "protein" is enough dietary variety and quantity to 
keep the necessary amino acids and other elements available within the body.

There is no need to "combine proteins" when eating a given meal. As long 
as the necessary amino acids pools (and other essential elements) are 
maintained on average/over time, our bodies can build the proteins they 
need when they need them.

Lappe herself has clarified in later books and talks that her "protein 
combining" was not a vegetarian dietary necessity but rather an attempt 
to accomodate/placate the established diet dogmatists of the time (who 
were persecuting her mercilessly).

As Jeavons points out, what most "malnourished" peoples on the planet 
lack is not "protein" as we have been falsely taught to imagine it 
(meat, milk, eggs, etc.) but more calories and more dietary variety 
(especially fresh foods, fruits and veggies etc.) in order to get the 
amino acids and other elements available in sufficient quantities so 
their bodies can readily build necessary proteins.

So in terms of "protein," any system of feeing ourselves that gets us on 
average the amino acids and other elements our bodies need to build the 
proteins they build will do just fine.

Note that when we eat flesh foods, because the protein molecules in them 
are quite complex, our bodies use more energy to break them down for 
re-use than less complex proteins in non-flesh foods.
And, some bodies are better at this (digesting meats, or beans, or 
dealing with lactose, etc.) than others.

As Toby and others have pointed out there are plenty of other 
considerations - efficiency and sustainability of food production via 
agriculture, horticulture, animal husbandry, gathering, hunting etc. 
etc. and of course other health/nutrition issues such as trace elements, 
B12 deficiency and so on.

cheers,
John S.

>  
> E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
> www.hillcountrynatives.biz <http://www.hillcountrynatives.biz>
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* John Schinnerer <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     *To:* International Permaculture List
>     <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:41 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Permaculture International] Vegetables and Protein
> 
>     Aloha,
> 
>      > I realize this is a rather large and open-ended question, but how
>     does
>      > one obtain sufficient protein from sustainable horticulture?
> 
>     What exactly do you mean when you say "protein?"
> 
>      >... However, I haven't found much
>      > information on WHAT to grow to make a sustainable, healthy
>     relationship
>      > between garden and gardener.
> 
>     Ecology Action (John Jeavons et al) have IMO some of the best info on
>     this. They have worked out calorically via their biointensive systems
>     some examples of minimum subsistence planting plans and schedules.
> 
>     cheers,
>     John S.
> 
>     -- 
>     John Schinnerer - MA, Whole Systems Design
>     ------------------------------------------
>     - Eco-Living -
>     Whole Systems Design Services
>     People - Place - Learning - Integration
>     [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     http://eco-living.net
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-- 
John Schinnerer - MA, Whole Systems Design
------------------------------------------
- Eco-Living -
Whole Systems Design Services
People - Place - Learning - Integration
[email-masked]
http://eco-living.net

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