Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag?

From: Tanya Kucak <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:39:30 -0700

At 12:12 PM -0700 6/19/07, Edna Weigel wrote:
><snip>
....While I'm not prepared to argue against small,
>supplemental additions of depleted nutrients where needed, I'm a great
>believer of adding organic matter (which often includes many needed
>nutrients--this can include growing whatever cover crops will grow in the
>depleted soil) and adjusting pH where it is acidic (which, I've read many
>times, is exacerbated by chemical fertilizers) then allowing microbial life
>to "unlock" the nutrients that are already there.

The most interesting work on soil fertility I've seen is a few short 
papers by Roland Bunch based on the work of Ana Primavesi. Basically, 
she describes the traditional approach to fertilization as the 
Nutrient Quantity Concept -- the notion that specific nutrients need 
to be supplied to plants in periodic large doses -- and proposes that 
in the tropics, the Nutrient Access Concept is more important. This 
is the notion that plants need constant access to tiny quantities of 
nutrients, best supplied by nurturing the soil biology and using 
sufficient compost and mulch.

********************************************************
To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or;
2- Send a message to <[email-masked]> from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message.

Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.

---

From: Steve Diver <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:11:58 -0500

Howdy Frank -

Good to see you on Sanet.  Texas Plant & Soil Lab
uses a unique extraction technique based on C02,
so the numbers on the soil test results need to 
be intepreted via the guidelines established by
TPSL.  

Soil Analysis Guide Sheet 
--Texas Plant & Soil Lab--
http://www.txplant-soillab.com/page5.htm
http://www.txplant-soillab.com/page6.htm

Based on your crop response, you've got a good 
soil program underway. 

And surely you have other practices and inputs
that you haven't mentioned.  

In an earlier post you made a point that is relevant 
to this discussion list.  The infrastructure
of organics that provides seeds, soil fertilty, pest 
control, and animal feed inputs is lacking in many parts 
of the U.S. 

It takes considerable effort on the part of farmers to 
source these materials; i.e., where you can buy 
products at wholesale prices.  Secondly, the shipping 
costs are exhorbitant.  The cost to ship can double 
the price of the original product.  

That's why organic farming associations and cooperatives
can help make a difference.  They can purchase products
in volume and arrange for shipping and pickup at regional 
locations.   

Another reailty facing organic farmers is that 90- 100% 
of the surrounding cropland for corn, cotton, and soybeans 
is now GMO.  Just a few years ago the acreage was about
66%.  Now it is 100% in many parts of the cornbelt, cottonbelt,
and soybean belt.  Herbicide drift and GMO drift is therefore
a major factor.

Organic farmers have as many challenges today as they 
did twenty years ago. 

Best regards, 
Steve Diver

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Frank A. Schultz, III" <[email-masked]>
>Sent: Jun 24, 2007 2:08 AM
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag?
>
>Joel -
>
>Sorry for the tardy reply - can't get to the computer much, these days (its 
>more of a winter activity, you know).  Our place is in Red Oak, Texas - 
>heavy, dense black clay soil (Black Gumbo) with a CEC of 40 to 50, and a pH 
>of around 7.2 to 7.6.  As you may suppose, we use sulphur and sulphur 
>compounds at every opportunity.  The dirt is quite sticky when wet, but 
>clods are as hard as concrete when dry.  The lab that I am presently using 
>is that of Mr. K. Chandler, Texas Plant & Soil Lab -
>www.txplant-soillab.com - a gentleman and establishment well known and 
>respected in the organic circles of these parts.  I may perhaps be able to 
>send you a pdf (if I can find it) of some of his reports in full from last 
>year, if you're interested...
>
>As a brief summary, herewith some average numbers:
>
>O.M. = 1.30 to 2.15
>Salts E.C. = 0.48 to 0.72
>NO3 #/ac. = 16 to 83
>P2O5 #/ac. = 5 to 16
>
>Salt Cations ppm by H2O and by CO2 Extraction Methods:
>K = 9 to 15 (H2O) and 30 to 41 (CO2)
>Na = 6 to 19 and 52 to 68
>Ca = 95 to 121 and 1075 to 1489
>Mg = 3 to 4 and 16 to 26
>
>Ratio Na/Ca = 0 to 1
>Ratio Na/Mg = 17 to 23
>Zn - ppm = 0.31 to 0.56
>Cu - ppm = 0.77 to 0.96
>Fe & Mn test adequate.

.... etc ....

---

From: Karl North <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:51:33 -0400

Tanya Kucak said:
 
"The most interesting work on soil fertility I've seen is a few short 
papers by Roland Bunch based on the work of Ana Primavesi. Basically, 
she describes the traditional approach to fertilization as the 
Nutrient Quantity Concept -- the notion that specific nutrients need 
to be supplied to plants in periodic large doses -- and proposes that 
in the tropics, the Nutrient Access Concept is more important. This 
is the notion that plants need constant access to tiny quantities of 
nutrients, best supplied by nurturing the soil biology and using 
sufficient compost and mulch."

I regard the Primavesi work as revolutionary. Because of her work, no
longer can anyone justify feeding plants any other way than through the
biological channels that nature evolved in the soil community. Her worked
demonstrated just how crude and inefficient other methods are in
providing the "constant access to tiny quantities of nutrients", which is
all the nutrient delivery that plants need to maximize growth and health.
To me this means that until someone can demonstrate differently, research
on feeding plants must adhere to that finding, and that rule.  There may
be many ways to enhance that biological delivery system and the health of
its constituents and interactions. In my view that is the research agenda
that Primavesi's work implies. 

Karl North
Northland Sheep Dairy, Freetown, New York USA
     www.geocities.com/northsheep/
"Mother Nature never farms without animals" - Albert Howard
"Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying