From - Fri Jul 06 13:57:01 2007 X-UIDL: 368794114 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A26075D40090; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:56:48 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 951AA266BE2; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759CA266BA0 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7BC266C1B for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.00120EA9@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:42 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7200991 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:42 -0400 Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <8.0008624E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:42 -0400 Received: from ibm56aec.bellsouth.net ([65.5.197.216]) by imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070706175441.ORWR7430.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm56aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:41 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [65.5.197.216]) by ibm56aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070706175441.FOYA12983.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:39 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm Subject: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794114 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'lfl@INTREX.NET' on the allowed list (372 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 92258 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} John D'hondt might be interested in this. - Last Updated: Thursday, 6 January, 2005, 06:27 GMT Researchers hail organic potatoes Professor Carlo Leifert with the Hungarian 'purple' potato. Picture: North News No chemicals are used on the potatoes. Picture: North News The organic food industry has been given a boost after potatoes which can be grown without chemicals but resist deadly diseases have been identified. A European study, led by researchers at Newcastle University, found up to 10 varieties which are resilient to the deadly fungal disease blight. They also created 'designer composts' to increase organic potato crop yields. The findings are being presented at a meeting on Thursday hosted by the Soil Association and Newcastle University. Several varieties of organic potato are on supermarket shelves across the continent for the first time, thanks to the study. Prof Carlo Leifert, behind the project, said: "Until now it's been hard to find varieties of potato that can be grown organically but can resist blight, and it's taken a lot of investigation to get this far. "From a European perspective, you can't really find a 'one size fits all' solution to the organic problem - a potato that's popular with the Swiss may not suit what the British consumer wants for baked potato, mash and chips." Among the newly-available organic potato selection are two Scottish varieties, Eve Balfour and Lady Balfour, and a "purple" potato from Hungary. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 17 17:36:51 2007 X-UIDL: <001301c7c8b6$a27c32c0$6401a8c0@SALS> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm47aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf07aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070717210926.OROY23299.imf07aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm47aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:09:26 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.68] by mxm47aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with SMTP id 6003d964.461470640.3927038.00-021.mxm47aec (envelope-from ); Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fgateway07.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.77]) by mx00.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP; 17 Jul 2007 17:09:20 -0400 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by bellsouth.net (frfwmxc07) with ESMTP id <20070717210918M070005319e>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:09:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [128.227.252.37] Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.0008F85F@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:08:58 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7542380 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:08:57 -0400 Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.0012A511@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:08:57 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070717210857.FKJG1428.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:08:57 -0400 Received: from SALS ([68.6.81.195]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id Ql8t1X00C4CqgsL0000000; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:08:56 -0400 References: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <000801c7c745$4ba76180$6401a8c0@SALS> <000301c7c8b1$1c7625a0$9fd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <001301c7c8b6$a27c32c0$6401a8c0@SALS> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:08:32 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: sals Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0181818182; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.550(2007071726); R=0.600(s0/n0)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'sals3@COX.NET' (384 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 4.4401E-130; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 96127 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} ok I understand now. thanks for taking the time again. I understand that plants are best if seed is raised on the same land and the plant each generation get more adapted to that place. I seen on TV one time that a farmer was saving corn seed growing on their land for over 50 years when some GMO contaminated that organic corn that was in her family for so long. I think it was bill Moyer. I felt so sorry for them as it not only took away their organicness but also killed all those years of work. I understand what your saying about plants do get use to specific conditions. thanks for the reminder. > I have called my system "soil immunization". > A few other things I do is plant a mixture of several varieties and every > year we grow a portion of next years seed potatoes from real seed. Also, > everything is home produced. We found at an early stage that home grown > seed potatoes did about twice as well than bought in certified seed. So we > have not bought seed in for more than 10 years. > > I have explained in another mail to Lawrence that we did more or less the > same for a few other crops. For instance sweet corn outside is not an easy > thing to grow here. Too cold and too wet usually. But for the last 15 > years now we have grown sweet corn quite reliably, every time saving our > own seed until we had a variety that could survive and thrive here under > our specific conditions and without any chemicals. > john > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to > the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the > SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 17 17:36:47 2007 X-UIDL: <000301c7c8b1$1c7625a0$9fd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm12aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf08aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070717202936.RJIB5574.imf08aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm12aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:29:36 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.112] (EHLO ibm02aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm12aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id fa62d964.786856880.7414743.00-038.mxm12aec (envelope-from ); Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm02aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070717202935.OVGD28853.ibm02aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:29:35 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00181470@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:56 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7540758 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:56 -0400 Received: from mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.0012A5EF@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:54 -0400 Received: (qmail 18544 messnum 6679420 invoked from network[159.134.212.159/159-134-212-159.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net]); 17 Jul 2007 20:28:52 -0000 Received: from 159-134-212-159.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net (HELO Targadc5fefe82d) (159.134.212.159) by mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 18544) with SMTP; 17 Jul 2007 20:28:52 -0000 References: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <000801c7c745$4ba76180$6401a8c0@SALS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000301c7c8b1$1c7625a0$9fd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:03:35 +0100 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: John D'hondt Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0270411225; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.550(2007071725); R=0.692(s653/n290)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.112] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'dhondt@EIRCOM.NET' on the allowed list (384 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 96119 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > can understand that i have seen in a lot of cases here that the benifical > does not show up till there is lots of the plage here for them to work > on. then what did U do. i know if you make compost tea out of the bad > stuff you get more bad stuff. garbage in garbage out so im interested in > just how u did not just grow the blight but instead and how did what u did > turn it around. I would like to hear a little more.????. Sal I have explained my system on sanet at least twice and in great detail. I have called my system "soil immunization". A few other things I do is plant a mixture of several varieties and every year we grow a portion of next years seed potatoes from real seed. Also, everything is home produced. We found at an early stage that home grown seed potatoes did about twice as well than bought in certified seed. So we have not bought seed in for more than 10 years. I have explained in another mail to Lawrence that we did more or less the same for a few other crops. For instance sweet corn outside is not an easy thing to grow here. Too cold and too wet usually. But for the last 15 years now we have grown sweet corn quite reliably, every time saving our own seed until we had a variety that could survive and thrive here under our specific conditions and without any chemicals. john ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 17 17:36:45 2007 X-UIDL: <000201c7c8b1$1c03b4c0$9fd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm35aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf02aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070717202934.TFPS25521.imf02aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm35aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:29:34 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.112] (EHLO ibm02aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm35aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id da62d964.263564208.4106327.00-017.mxm35aec (envelope-from ); Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm02aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070717202932.OVFH28853.ibm02aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:29:32 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0018146E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:54 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7540739 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:53 -0400 Received: from mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.0012A4BC@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 18190 messnum 6679214 invoked from network[159.134.212.159/159-134-212-159.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net]); 17 Jul 2007 20:28:49 -0000 Received: from 159-134-212-159.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net (HELO Targadc5fefe82d) (159.134.212.159) by mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 18190) with SMTP; 17 Jul 2007 20:28:49 -0000 References: <469AA9F5.3090806@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000201c7c8b1$1c03b4c0$9fd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:43:42 +0100 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: John D'hondt Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0270411225; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.550(2007071725); R=0.692(s653/n290)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.112] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'dhondt@EIRCOM.NET' on the allowed list (384 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 96118 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > Is this procedure one that you would recommend to anyone anywhere to use > in any climate and soil condition > or would you only try this under certain growing conditions, or a range of > conditions? > -- > Lawrence F. London, Jr. Lawrence there were a number of reasons that led me to the "procedure" in question. To name two : A book by a German agriculturist, Dr. Alwin Seifert, from just before-during WW2 who did a few very original experiments with compost making and ways of growing crops. For years Dr. Seifert offered a price to any visitor who could find any disease in his garden. One of the things he did was plant potatoes year after year in the same beds. Second for me was the absolute certainty that our society is about to meet a bottle neck (perhaps peak-oil) and that after this there would be little possibility to try and become sustainable. Either one is sustainable at that point or one will no longer be there at all. I decided to start experimenting in plenty of time while there was still the luxury of surviving with a smile complete failure. I think that if it had become a failure that I would have chosen to grow different crops instead of wasting time trying to grow potatoes non-organically. Let me say that I am basically a belt and braces sort of man. We have trialed at least 500 different food crops here in Ireland over the years and (only) about 20-25 of them have been successful as potential staples. This means that if our potatoes would succumb to blight or any other disease, that we have some scope of expanding some other crop as a staple in times of crisis. I am absolutely certain that many places on this planet are much more suitable than Ireland for many more potential food crops or for growing potatoes sustainably/organically. Our climate is harsh to say the least and soil... I started off without soil on barren rock in many places. With this explanation a smart person should be able to figure out what path I would have chosen in his/her locality almost. And that is really all that can usefully be said. I have explained my system of developing blight free potatoes several times and always there is someone somewhere who does not agree with the basics of it. That is no problem for me. It is just that I sincerely believe that the final proof of one's system working will be of much more than just economical importance. john ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Mon Jul 16 14:00:30 2007 X-UIDL: <05611850.20070716103932@gmx.net> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm27aec ([205.152.59.244]) by imf06aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070716154017.SVJG24635.imf06aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm27aec>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:40:17 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.118] (EHLO ibm08aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm27aec (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id 1619b964.713378736.3694405.00-074.mxm27aec (envelope-from ); Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm08aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070716154016.UFXC13901.ibm08aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:40:16 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00128FC4@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:39:54 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7485531 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:39:54 -0400 Received: from unix.megared.net.mx (megamail.megared.com.mx) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.001290E9@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:39:53 -0400 Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by unix.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6GFdqC82617; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:39:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <05611850.20070716103932@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:39:32 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: cc: John D'hondt To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0330735931; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.600(2007071612); R=0.693(s630/n279)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.118] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 95686 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} John responded to Lawrence's suggestion: >> While we're at it we might as well put together a complete list >> of all soil-dwelling growth promoting, disease preventing, >> nitrogen-fixing, soil health and biodiversity-building >> microorganisms, invertebrates and other organisms. Elaine has a >> list of 7 of the most important. We could use them as primary >> categories to build on. as follows: > I am probably a great disappointment to others in my profession of > biologist but I have so far not had too much interest in species > specific relationships in soil. We know there are at least 25.000 > (maybe 40.000) different species of micro organism in an average > spoonful of soil. The number of possible relationships between all > these organisms is a bit too complex for my purpose (which was > growing potatoes organically in Ireland without having problems > with blight). > My reasoning was that there was probably some organism in all that > lot that would live on Phytophtora infestans ([potato] blight) and > that would thus protect potato crops from this disease if only it > were plentiful enough. To get it plentiful I grew blight prone > potato varieties and let the diseased plant-parts rot in situ then > planted more potatoes on top that I left in the ground over the > wettest winter imaginable. > As I explained before on this list (it is slightly more complex > than the very shortened story here) I have been able to grow > potatoes absolutely blight free for at least 15 years now. Whether > my guardian angel organism is Pisolithus tinctorius I doubt > because we don't have "dog-turd-mushrooms" here at all. I think you are right: Understanding and making use of the principle at work (evolution) is more important than identifying the specific mechanisms & organisms that made your potatoes resistant (and both microorganisms and the genetics of the potatoes are probably at work here); But Larry is right too regarding the need to be aware of which microorganisms are beneficial for pest and disease protection and so am I regarding the need to understand the conditions under which each one thrives. > I was interested in growing healthy potatoes in the first place > for my own family and that has been successful but to get rich out > of potato blight it is necessary to come up with specific names so > that patents can be secured. That I will gladly leave to someone > else for I can see a few other priorities in my life. One).- No one can (or should) patent natural biological processes (or for that matter, living organisms - and that is exactly why those whose chief concern is personal rather than public's benefit shifted their efforts to GM crops - so they can patent them; disregarding their effects on the environment, public health and non-GM farmers). Two).- My chief concern is simply: Change the basis of the nation's dominant agricultural production system and therefore, the way agriculture in general is practiced. In order to accomplish that goal, we need to develop a standards based approach. Your faith was generated &/or reinforced by your understanding of the biological principals that in turn, demonstrated the validity of that faith and approach. Where I am, few farmers share your knowledge so we have our work cut out for us when organizing evaluation and demonstration projects. Most importantly, resources for sustainable rural development projects of this type depend on our being able to present principles backed by data derived from replicable experiments carried out by accredited universities and research institutions somewhere in the world. Based on those historical events, we can obtain financing from sources that provide a results dependant pay back scheme (IOW, the risks are shared). Obviously, solutions that generate positive results in one place and time may not be applicable to another, but a knowledge base that helps our understanding of those differences and permits us to foresee prepare for pests, disease and deficiencies and will develop with time. As you can see, this is not a trivial goal and frankly, I am somewhat disappointed in the lack of response from those involved in the academic and governmental research loop. I am also unaware if my principal post appeared on sanet (if it was, I never received it - Lawrence got a copy off-list - and even the self bcc didn't come back - it may be my ISP or gmx). > Wishing you every success though, > John Thanks John. As always, your valuable and relevant input is highly appreciated. Douglas P.S. I'm sure you agree that the meaning of "getting rich" depends on one's health, values, family and contribution to (and role in) society. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 15 22:54:40 2007 X-UIDL: <000801c7c745$4ba76180$6401a8c0@SALS> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm33aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf09aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070716010536.VIZL1840.imf09aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm33aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:05:36 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.70] by mxm33aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with SMTP id 064ca964.1653267376.2996025.00-042.mxm33aec (envelope-from ); Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by mx00.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP; 15 Jul 2007 21:05:31 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.001287A9@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 15 Jul 2007 21:05:06 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7464500 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:05:06 -0400 Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.001286FA@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 15 Jul 2007 21:05:05 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070716010505.ZBHR1399.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:05:05 -0400 Received: from SALS ([68.6.81.195]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id Q14y1X0094CqgsL0000000; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:05:04 -0400 References: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000801c7c745$4ba76180$6401a8c0@SALS> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:04:39 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: sals Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0286630520; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.550(2007071517); R=0.705(s679/n284)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'sals3@COX.NET' (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 3.26314E-150; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 95527 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} ----- Original Message ----- From: "John D'hondt" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 4:31 PM Subject: Re: BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes . > > I am probably a great disappointment to others in my profession of > biologist but I have so far not had too much interest in species specific > relationships in soil. We know there are at least 25.000 (maybe 40.000) > different species of micro organism in an average spoonful of soil. The > number of possible relationships between all these organisms is a bit too > complex for my purpose (which was growing potatoes organically in Ireland > without having problems with blight). > > My reasoning was that there was probably some organism in all that lot > that would live on Phytophtora infestans (blight) and that would thus > protect potato crops from this disease if only it were plentiful enough. > To get it plentiful I grew blight prone potato varieties and let the > diseased plant-parts rot in situ then planted more potatoes on top that I > left in the ground over the wettest winter imaginable. I like the reasoning so far yet need to hear just a little more . after you planted more potatoes on top what is the rest of the story? the punch line ,like u use the soil from that or the seed potatoes or what . I would like to hear what happen to get u to planting success. so what ever was causing the blight was really there in the earth and you feel that what lives on that blight must also be there whatever it is called. that sounds sound . I can understand that i have seen in a lot of cases here that the benifical does not show up till there is lots of the plage here for them to work on. then what did U do. i know if you make compost tea out of the bad stuff you get more bad stuff. garbage in garbage out so im interested in just how u did not just grow the blight but instead and how did what u did turn it around. I would like to hear a little more.????. thanks > Wishing you every success though, > John > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to > the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the > SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 15 19:17:06 2007 X-UIDL: <469AA9F5.3090806@bellsouth.net> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm21aec ([205.152.59.244]) by imf02aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070715231331.QGFW19417.imf02aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm21aec>; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:13:31 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.65] by mxm21aec (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with SMTP id b1aaa964.1606900656.1327006.00-014.mxm21aec (envelope-from ); Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fgateway05.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.35]) by mx00.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP; 15 Jul 2007 19:13:29 -0400 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by bellsouth.net (frfwmxc05) with ESMTP id <20070715231328M0500ftqune>; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:13:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [128.227.252.37] Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <8.0008DA33@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 15 Jul 2007 19:13:03 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7462017 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:13:03 -0400 Received: from imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.001286E4@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 15 Jul 2007 19:13:03 -0400 Received: from ibm66aec.bellsouth.net ([65.5.197.216]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070715231302.ROW355.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm66aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:13:02 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [65.5.197.216]) by ibm66aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070715231302.MTXH15943.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:13:02 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <469AA9F5.3090806@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:12:53 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0149253731; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.500(2007071515); R=0.600(s0/n0)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'lflj@BELLSOUTH.NET' on the allowed list (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 95508 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} John D'hondt wrote: > My reasoning was that there was probably some organism in all that lot > that would live on Phytophtora infestans (blight) and that would thus > protect potato crops from this disease if only it were plentiful enough. > To get it plentiful I grew blight prone potato varieties and let the > diseased plant-parts rot in situ then planted more potatoes on top that > I left in the ground over the wettest winter imaginable. > > As I explained before on this list (it is slightly more complex than the > very shortened story here) I have been able to grow potatoes absolutely > blight free for at least 15 years now. Whether my guardian angel > organism is Pisolithus tinctorius I doubt because we don't have > "dog-turd-mushrooms" here at all. Is this procedure one that you would recommend to anyone anywhere to use in any climate and soil condition or would you only try this under certain growing conditions, or a range of conditions? -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm lflj@bellsouth.net.net http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/market-farming ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 15 19:05:13 2007 X-UIDL: <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> X-Mozilla-Status: 1013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm55aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf09aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070715202717.IOXT1840.imf09aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm55aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:27:17 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.70] by mxm55aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with SMTP id 4238a964.1342016432.4091422.00-041.mxm55aec (envelope-from ); Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by mx00.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP; 15 Jul 2007 16:27:13 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.001286E9@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 15 Jul 2007 16:26:49 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7458917 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:26:48 -0400 Received: from mail09.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.001284CF@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 15 Jul 2007 16:26:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 40094 messnum 2874782 invoked from network[159.134.212.236/159-134-212-236.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net]); 15 Jul 2007 20:26:45 -0000 Received: from 159-134-212-236.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net (HELO Targadc5fefe82d) (159.134.212.236) by mail09.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 40094) with SMTP; 15 Jul 2007 20:26:45 -0000 References: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000201c7c71e$79677c80$ecd4869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:31:43 +0100 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: John D'hondt Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0431633272; S=0.015(2007062701); MH=0.550(2007071508); R=0.699(s658/n283)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'dhondt@EIRCOM.NET' on the allowed list (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 95492 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > While we're at it we might as well put together a complete list of all > soil-dwelling > growth promoting, disease preventing, nitrogen-fixing, soil health and > biodiversity-building microorganisms, > invertebrates and other organisms. Elaine has a list of 7 of the most > important. > We could use them as primary categories to build on. > > LL I am probably a great disappointment to others in my profession of biologist but I have so far not had too much interest in species specific relationships in soil. We know there are at least 25.000 (maybe 40.000) different species of micro organism in an average spoonful of soil. The number of possible relationships between all these organisms is a bit too complex for my purpose (which was growing potatoes organically in Ireland without having problems with blight). My reasoning was that there was probably some organism in all that lot that would live on Phytophtora infestans (blight) and that would thus protect potato crops from this disease if only it were plentiful enough. To get it plentiful I grew blight prone potato varieties and let the diseased plant-parts rot in situ then planted more potatoes on top that I left in the ground over the wettest winter imaginable. As I explained before on this list (it is slightly more complex than the very shortened story here) I have been able to grow potatoes absolutely blight free for at least 15 years now. Whether my guardian angel organism is Pisolithus tinctorius I doubt because we don't have "dog-turd-mushrooms" here at all. I was interested in growing healthy potatoes in the first place for my own family and that has been successful but to get rich out of potato blight it is necessary to come up with specific names so that patents can be secured. That I will gladly leave to someone else for I can see a few other priorities in my life. Wishing you every success though, John ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Fri Jul 13 22:20:20 2007 X-UIDL: <000b01c7c5b5$1dc6f8c0$6401a8c0@SALS> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm38aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf03aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070714012056.SKRP170.imf03aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm38aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:56 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.133] (EHLO ibm23aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm38aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id 8f428964.508648368.2370272.00-031.mxm38aec (envelope-from ); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm23aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070714012055.ZCXO5831.ibm23aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:55 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <8.0008C279@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:26 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7398784 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:26 -0400 Received: from fed1rmmtao101.cox.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00126F2A@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:25 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao101.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070714012025.VUFJ1349.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:25 -0400 Received: from SALS ([68.6.81.195]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id PDLN1X00D4CqgsL0000000; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:20:24 -0400 References: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000b01c7c5b5$1dc6f8c0$6401a8c0@SALS> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:20:07 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: sals Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0297742402; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.550(2007071338); R=0.713(s731/n294)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.133] X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'sals3@COX.NET' (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 1.65103E-123; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 95009 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} I always felt that if I took the dirt from under a real healthy tree and aerated it with pure water some food like organic molasses that the life in that soil that was so good would grow and grow and in 24 hours it would be a good compost tea to spray on ground and put out in drip and even spray on the trees. because my ground has been organic many years and I use nothing but water I don't think I could find better earth full of life anywhere. like under the banana trees is so good. I think that would be a good place to start. for the bacteria type soil because it is a grass and under the trees for fungus type soil depending on what I want to plant would work. . IMHO If I were to plant a lemon tree it may be wise to put some dirt from a healthy lemon tree in that hole. could it be that easy?? what do you all think of that idea. names there are so many like Eendomycorrhizae-Glomus intraradicas or G mosseae,G aggregatum etc. or Ectomycorrihizae like Rhizopogon villosiullus R luteolus etc. don't mean nothing to me. I don't know if these make a tea. along with Pisolitus i think they need to touch the roots to infect them . I think spores if you can not get the living tea may be a good start but i really feel if that tree is growing real good and i don't use any fertilizers here at all than it must have the right life in that soil to be doing so good. . if I multiply that in a tea and put it out that would make a good tea. ideas will that work? From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." To: Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: Re: BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes > Douglas Hinds wrote > >> If you want to continue this here or on seranet, let me know. > > Here. > > While we're at it we might as well put together a complete list of all > soil-dwelling > growth promoting, disease preventing, nitrogen-fixing, soil health and > biodiversity-building microorganisms, > invertebrates and other organisms. Elaine has a list of 7 of the most > important. > We could use them as primary categories to build on. > > LL > -- > Lawrence F. London, Jr. > Venaura Farm > lflj@bellsouth.net.net > http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/market-farming > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to > the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the > SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Fri Jul 13 19:22:04 2007 X-UIDL: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm30aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf08aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713220000.DBMO7974.imf08aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm30aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:00:00 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.114] (EHLO ibm04aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm30aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id 0e5f7964.1207573424.8651617.00-021.mxm30aec (envelope-from ); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm04aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713220000.ZTDJ5814.ibm04aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:00:00 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.00126E6E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:43 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7393583 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:43 -0400 Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.00126D3C@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:42 -0400 Received: from ibm56aec.bellsouth.net ([65.5.197.216]) by imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713215942.YVK13425.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm56aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:42 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [65.5.197.216]) by ibm56aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713215941.KWGA16877.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <4697F5C6.7000907@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0245252924; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.500(2007071338); R=0.713(s727/n292)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.114] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'lflj@BELLSOUTH.NET' on the allowed list (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 94972 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Douglas Hinds wrote: > If you want to continue this here or on seranet, let me know. Here. While we're at it we might as well put together a complete list of all soil-dwelling growth promoting, disease preventing, nitrogen-fixing, soil health and biodiversity-building microorganisms, invertebrates and other organisms. Elaine has a list of 7 of the most important. We could use them as primary categories to build on. LL -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm lflj@bellsouth.net.net http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/market-farming ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Fri Jul 13 17:34:24 2007 X-UIDL: <265157603.20070713161740@gmx.net> X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm47aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf09aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713211821.DIZZ1744.imf09aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm47aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:18:21 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.114] (EHLO ibm04aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm47aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id d1ce7964.828615600.1788676.00-032.mxm47aec (envelope-from ); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm04aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713211820.XLOU5814.ibm04aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:18:20 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.00126E01@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:18:05 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7392659 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:18:02 -0400 Received: from qmail4.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.00126E00@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:18:02 -0400 Received: (qmail 12653 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 21:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.151]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Jul 2007 21:18:01 -0000 Received: from shield.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6DLI1I29053 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:18:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6DLI1S28722 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:18:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> <4696F670.9030608@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 13072007 #339682, status: clean Message-ID: <265157603.20070713161740@gmx.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:17:40 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <4696F670.9030608@bellsouth.net> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.1583804425; S=0.070(2007062701); MH=0.500(2007071337); R=0.713(s727/n292)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.114] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (381 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 94952 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Hi Sal, Lawrence, Kathryn, John and all others interested in this thread: I had a somewhat stressful week and promised to finish a couple of proposals today, but I'll try to answer your questions: > Douglas Hinds wrote: >>>> Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >>>> Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with >>>> antibiotic activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I >>>> found in Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I >>>> believe), a biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the >>>> details on this computer). >> Sal then asked: >>>where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms >>>your raising when you make the tea >> Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., >> Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT >> Spore Spray) >> There may be other sources available. >>> what do you feed while brewing. >>> what all goes into the tea? >> I haven't got that far yet. > When used with potatoes how is Pisolithus Tinctorius applied? to > the seed potatoes before planting? segmented or whole? after > planting? Is Pisolithus Tinctorius best applied > 1)alone, i.e. according to manufacturer's directions? or > 2)in compost tea? > If 2) how/when is it added to the tea? > What compost tea ingredients would be beneficial > a)to Pisolithus Tinctorius and/or > b)in combination with Pisolithus Tinctorius, to plants the tea is > applied to. What compost tea ingredients would be harmful to, or > not beneficial to, Pisolithus Tinctorius? I began farming organically in 1968 and along with a number of others, constituted CeDeCoR, the Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural (Center for Community and rural Development) in 1995. At present, my work focuses on the need to address the kinds of questions you're asking. CeDeCoR organizes sustainable agriculture projects, proposes changes in public policy, elaborates legislative initiatives, and presents sustainable and equitable models for development. One of the fundamental elements of our proposals is the need for developing the crop, region and season specific, biologically intensive technological packages required to create sustainable agricultural productions systems that depend on natural biological processes rather than ... (you already know what and their days are numbered, whether they know it or not). The need for organizing collaborative, farm based research projects forms part of what CeDeCoR proposes (as does SERANet - the Socially and Ecologically Responsible Agriculture Network, which is part of our international outreach effort). So - if any of you are interested in working together to resolve some of these issues, I'd be glad to form part of that group. Getting back to your questions, google returned 63,800 hits for "Pisolithus Tinctorius", one of which is: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:gVnoJdPqyPwJ:plant-materials.nrcs.usda.gov/pubs/nmpmcsy1191.pdf+%22Pisolithus+Tinctorius%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=30&client=mozilla The Influence Of Pisolithus Tinctorius Inoculation On Greenhouse Growth And First-YearTransplant Survival Of ConiferSeedlings By: J.T. Harrington, A.M. Wagner, and D.R. Dreesen The focus of the article was not seedling growth, not Phytophthora protection, but does mention the inoculation method used and the fact that the roots of inoculated seedlings did show signs of Mycorrhizal colonization : As I mentioned, I learned long ago that Pisolithus Tinctorius produces both plant growth factors and substances that are active against Phytophthora and known to produce significant results with some plants. Three inoculation treatments were used. The first treatment involved inoculating 196 seedlings of each species with a commercial source of Pisolithus tinctorius six weeks after germination. Inoculation was accomplished by drenching the root plug with a spore suspension of P. tinctorius in water (MycorTree PT Spore Spray, Plant Health Care, Inc., Pittsburgh, PA, USA 1995)... Mycorrhizal colonization was determined by removing five to ten seedlings of each inoculation by species treatment combination from their containers and visually inspecting the root plug for presence of mycorrhizal inoculation using a procedure modified from Cordell et al. (1990). Lateral roots growing on the periphery of the root plug were examined for the presence of root bifurcations and fungal hyphae as indicators of the presence of mycorrhizal colonization. I intend to inoculate pineapple offshoots with Pisolithus and received plans for a machine to producing inoculant from NIFTAL, a group in Hawaii that supports the use of nitrogen fixing microorganisms. If you want to continue this here or on seranet, let me know. Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Fri Jul 13 00:38:08 2007 X-UIDL: <4696F670.9030608@bellsouth.net> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Received: from mxm48aec.corp.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.244]) by imf01aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713040614.IBJR13745.imf01aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mxm48aec.corp.bellsouth.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:06:14 -0400 Received: from unknown [192.168.16.123] (EHLO ibm13aec.bellsouth.net) by mxm48aec.corp.bellsouth.net (mxl_mta-3.0.2-05) with ESMTP id 53af6964.301718448.5965920.00-026.mxm48aec (envelope-from ); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu ([128.227.252.37]) by ibm13aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713040613.SAQQ10632.ibm13aec.bellsouth.net@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:06:13 -0400 Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.0008B6CC@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 0:05:33 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7367564 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:05:30 -0400 Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00126367@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:50:17 -0400 Received: from ibm58aec.bellsouth.net ([65.5.197.216]) by imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713035016.IDDO13425.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm58aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:50:16 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [65.5.197.216]) by ibm58aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070713035016.TJNT19675.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:50:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <4696F670.9030608@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:50:08 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Spam: [F=0.0264670613; S=0.010(2007062701); MH=0.500(2007071241); R=0.729(s770/n286)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [192.168.16.123] X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'lflj@BELLSOUTH.NET' on the allowed list (380 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 94772 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Douglas Hinds wrote: >>>Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >>>Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >>>activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >>>Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a >>>biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this >>>computer). > Sal then asked: >>where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms >>your raising when you make the tea > Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., > Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT > Spore Spray) > There may be other sources available. > http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html > Pisolithus tinctorius is a mycorrhizal fungus, which means that it > gets its nutrition in a mutualistic association with the roots of > trees, mostly with conifers, but sometimes oaks. Remember that in a > mycorrhizal association such as this, both partners benefit. This > fungus is very useful in reclamation and reforestation of disturbed > and poor soils, such as strip mines. It can survive low pH (high > acidity), high concentrations of heavy metals, and high soil > temperatures in the summer, along with the accompanying drought. It > is also useful in the restrictive environment of nurseries. It seems > to be a "super-mycorrhiza," and inoculum of "P.t." in the form of > spores can be commercially purchased. So even in the "world's > ugliest fungus" there is still some good. >>what do you feed while brewing. >>what all goes into the tea? > I haven't got that far yet. When used with potatoes how is Pisolithus Tinctorius applied? to the seed potatoes before planting? segmented or whole? after planting? Is Pisolithus Tinctorius best applied 1)alone, i.e. according to manufacturer's directions? or 2)in compost tea? If 2) how/when is it added to the tea? What compost tea ingredients would be beneficial a)to Pisolithus Tinctorius and/or b)in combination with Pisolithus Tinctorius, to plants the tea is applied to. What compost tea ingredients would be harmful to, or not beneficial to, Pisolithus Tinctorius? LL -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm lflj@bellsouth.net.net http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/market-farming ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Thu Jul 12 23:50:09 2007 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000 Message-ID: <4696F670.9030608@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:50:08 -0400 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Hinds wrote: >>>Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >>>Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >>>activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >>>Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a >>>biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this >>>computer). > Sal then asked: >>where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms >>your raising when you make the tea > Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., > Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT > Spore Spray) > There may be other sources available. > http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html > Pisolithus tinctorius is a mycorrhizal fungus, which means that it > gets its nutrition in a mutualistic association with the roots of > trees, mostly with conifers, but sometimes oaks. Remember that in a > mycorrhizal association such as this, both partners benefit. This > fungus is very useful in reclamation and reforestation of disturbed > and poor soils, such as strip mines. It can survive low pH (high > acidity), high concentrations of heavy metals, and high soil > temperatures in the summer, along with the accompanying drought. It > is also useful in the restrictive environment of nurseries. It seems > to be a "super-mycorrhiza," and inoculum of "P.t." in the form of > spores can be commercially purchased. So even in the "world's > ugliest fungus" there is still some good. >>what do you feed while brewing. >>what all goes into the tea? > I haven't got that far yet. When used with potatoes how is Pisolithus Tinctorius applied? to the seed potatoes before planting? segmented or whole? after planting? Is Pisolithus Tinctorius best applied 1)alone, i.e. according to manufacturer's directions? or 2)in compost tea? If 2) how/when is it added to the tea? What compost tea ingredients would be beneficial a)to Pisolithus Tinctorius and/or b)in combination with Pisolithus Tinctorius, to plants the tea is applied to. What compost tea ingredients would be harmful to, or not beneficial to, Pisolithus Tinctorius? LL -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm lflj@bellsouth.net.net http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/market-farming From - Wed Jul 11 12:02:37 2007 X-UIDL: 368796088 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE11F7630098; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:41:37 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id ABCD1266808; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DC92667A7 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:39:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9796B26686C for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.0008A152@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:39:16 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7369526 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:39:16 -0400 Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.00124DBC@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:39:16 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070711133914.YTFG1358.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:39:14 -0400 Received: from SALS ([68.6.81.195]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id NDfB1X0054CqgsL0000000; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:39:14 -0400 References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <00d901c7c3c0$d5bb5670$6401a8c0@SALS> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:38:58 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: sals Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: To: Douglas Hinds To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368796088 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'sals3@COX.NET' (375 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 5.74017E-169; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 94258 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} form of spores can be commercially purchased . to me spores mean they raise and dry it and u just add water and the spores come back to life. is it like they are sleeping till they get the water like they do in nature? now your saying that now not only will the fungus help in the ground doing what it does but u want to spray it on the plants . I always thought it was best to put it in the hole before I plant because it come in contact with the root of the plant am planting and am hoping it infects that plant. I thought that kind of beneficial fungus had to meet the roots and getting it down to roots was the idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Hinds" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: Re: BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes > After being asked where I was going, I said: > >>> Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >>> Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >>> activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >>> Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a >>> biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this >>> computer). > > Sal then asked: > >> where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms >> your raising when you make the tea > > Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., > Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT > Spore Spray) > > There may be other sources available. > > http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html > Pisolithus tinctorius is a mycorrhizal fungus, which means that it > gets its nutrition in a mutualistic association with the roots of > trees, mostly with conifers, but sometimes oaks. Remember that in a > mycorrhizal association such as this, both partners benefit. This > fungus is very useful in reclamation and reforestation of disturbed > and poor soils, such as strip mines. It can survive low pH (high > acidity), high concentrations of heavy metals, and high soil > temperatures in the summer, along with the accompanying drought. It > is also useful in the restrictive environment of nurseries. It seems > to be a "super-mycorrhiza," and inoculum of "P.t." in the form of > spores can be commercially purchased. So even in the "world's > ugliest fungus" there is still some good. > >> what do you feed while brewing. > >> what all goes into the tea? > > I haven't got that far yet. > > -- > > Douglas > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to > the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the > SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 23:37:40 2007 X-UIDL: 368795969 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE4319F00044; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:28:03 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 94929266A63; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E267266900 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D472667D4 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.00089B4E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:25:52 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7353783 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:25:52 -0400 Received: from qmail3.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0017B7FC@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:25:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 20441 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2007 03:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Jul 2007 03:25:51 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6B3PpQ94461 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:25:51 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6B3PoE94455 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:25:51 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 11072007 #338425, status: clean Message-ID: <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:25:31 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795969 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 94112 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} After being asked where I was going, I said: >> Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >> Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >> activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >> Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a >> biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this >> computer). Sal then asked: > where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms > your raising when you make the tea Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT Spore Spray) There may be other sources available. http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html Pisolithus tinctorius is a mycorrhizal fungus, which means that it gets its nutrition in a mutualistic association with the roots of trees, mostly with conifers, but sometimes oaks. Remember that in a mycorrhizal association such as this, both partners benefit. This fungus is very useful in reclamation and reforestation of disturbed and poor soils, such as strip mines. It can survive low pH (high acidity), high concentrations of heavy metals, and high soil temperatures in the summer, along with the accompanying drought. It is also useful in the restrictive environment of nurseries. It seems to be a "super-mycorrhiza," and inoculum of "P.t." in the form of spores can be commercially purchased. So even in the "world's ugliest fungus" there is still some good. > what do you feed while brewing. > what all goes into the tea? I haven't got that far yet. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 12:34:00 2007 X-UIDL: 368795726 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB6ADE38009C; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:53:14 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 2B61F266793; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9872266792 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534AB266826 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.00124188@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:45:24 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7336081 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:45:24 -0400 Received: from mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0017B19A@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:45:23 -0400 Received: (qmail 57291 messnum 6678171 invoked from network[86.42.88.75/86-42-88-75.b-ras1.blp.dublin.eircom.net]); 10 Jul 2007 15:45:22 -0000 Received: from 86-42-88-75.b-ras1.blp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO ?192.168.1.16?) (86.42.88.75) by mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 57291) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2007 15:45:22 -0000 References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <33451346-0F5F-4F6A-8006-0FFCBE2A3146@iol.ie> <709001328.20070710081048@gmx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:44:24 +0100 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Kathryn Marsh Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: To: Douglas Hinds To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <709001328.20070710081048@gmx.net> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795726 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'kmarsh@IOL.IE' (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 3.10988E-077; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93869 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} >> In the area of phytophthera there isn't a lot I can contribute except >> my experience in my own garden - for legal reasons I am a government >> registered potato grower in the garden at Sonairte and therefore >> cannot save my own potato seeds for more than one year > > What prompted Ireland's legislature to legislate that? > Ireland derives a lot of income from potato breeding and =20 international sales of virus free seed potatoes. It has therefore =20 legislated that all commercial potato production must be registered =20 and does occasional spot checks for disease on all holdings. In order =20= to prevent a build up of virus in farm saved domestic stocks the two =20 year rule has been introduced - was four many years ago and has =20 gradually been reduced. The registration scheme costs =8020 a year per =20= holding regardless of the quantity of potatoes produced. I used to =20 see a lot of noticeably virus affected fields and these seem to have =20 disappeared of late so perhaps it is working. But it certainly isn't =20 doing anything towards adapting strains to growing on a particular =20 holding kathryn ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 11:14:05 2007 X-UIDL: 368795685 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A88085120070; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:32:32 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 20C76266854; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E455126681E for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591B4266751 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.001240A0@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:27:11 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7333383 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:27:11 -0400 Received: from fed1rmmtao101.cox.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.001241A6@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:27:11 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao101.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070710142710.ZHHJ1349.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:27:10 -0400 Received: from SALS ([68.6.81.195]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id MqT71X0034CqgsL0000000; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:27:10 -0400 References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:26:55 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: sals Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: To: Douglas Hinds To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795685 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'sals3@COX.NET' (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 2.11074E-045; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93828 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus > Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic > activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in > Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a biomedical > database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this computer). > where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms your raising when you make the tea what do you feed while brewing. what all goes into the tea? ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 01:32:10 2007 X-UIDL: 368795507 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE2CC9F20068; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:42:20 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 660A4266A59; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A01266A58 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D9D266A56 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00123A29@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 0:40:04 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7318957 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:04 -0400 Received: from qmail4.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.00088E5E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 0:40:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 19752 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 04:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Jul 2007 04:40:01 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6A4e1G25931 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:40:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6A4e0E25895; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:40:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 10072007 #338077, status: clean Message-ID: <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:39:40 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: To: Jean Ristaino To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795507 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93650 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Jean Ristaino wrote: > I am reading your comments and am wondering where you are going > with this. Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this computer). > Who is Katherine Marsh? Both Katherine Marsh and I have subscribed to the Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group (SANET) for many years. SANET is funded by SARE and has about 1000 subscribers, including many academics. Dr. Joel Gruver (who was at NCSU if I recall), also subscribes, for instance. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. I don't remember exactly what Katherine does, but both she and John D hondt (also in Ireland) mentioned that potato blight has been particularly destructive there this year, particularly to those fields cultivated relying on chemical inputs rather than biological processes. > Who are you and what are your interests in the disease? I am Coordinador Nacional de Producción Organica Confederacion Nacional de Propietarios Rurales I also Chair the Organic Pineapple Working Group of the International Society for Horticultural Science http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/opwg and am Director General of the Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. located in Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico My interest in Phytophthora stems from the fact that it attacks the roots of the pineapple plant. Although the INIFAP (Instituto Nacional de Investigaciones Forestales y Agropecuarios - the research arm of Mexico's Agriculture Secretariat), recommends dipping the roots of pineapple transplants in fungicide, inoculating their roots with Pisolithus Tintorius would be a more selective and therefore more appropriate solution, as well as one that is less likely to create resistance. > I wrote a proposal a few years back to look at alternatives to > pesticides for late blight control and was not funded. I have > interests in this area - but no funding yet. Your proposal sounds good to me - I hope the sources you solicited funds from realize soon that your proposal was sound and merits their support. Be sure and check out the SARE site for additional sources of funding. Thank you for your response. Douglas Hinds --------- ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 18:17:49 2007 X-UIDL: 368794972 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A13412D0092; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 18:12:04 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id BE3E3266C34; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EA4266BDD for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151CD2668A0 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.00087BE3@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 18:09:56 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7269452 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:09:55 -0400 Received: from mail01.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.0012287F@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 18:09:55 -0400 Received: (qmail 160 messnum 7076852 invoked from network[86.42.88.75/86-42-88-75.b-ras1.blp.dublin.eircom.net]); 8 Jul 2007 22:09:54 -0000 Received: from 86-42-88-75.b-ras1.blp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO ?192.168.1.16?) (86.42.88.75) by mail01.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 160) with SMTP; 8 Jul 2007 22:09:54 -0000 References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:09:53 +0100 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Kathryn Marsh Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794972 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'kmarsh@IOL.IE' (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 1.49115E-142; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93116 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Sarpo Axona has just started to go down with blight here in north Dublin, Sarpo Mira is still clear, as is Symfonia. Lady Eve Balfour survived to this week but showed the first signs of blight three days ago. I've taken the individual damaged leaves off and I think it will keep growing and make a worthwhile crop. Across the road sixty acres of Rooster which have been sprayed with Dithane at many times the legal limit are being ploughed in today. kathryn On 7 Jul 2007, at 22:11, John D'hondt wrote: >> John D'hondt might be interested in this. > > I am Lawrence but so far my own spuds, mixture of many varieties, > are healthy enough where it seems that many professional growers in > Ireland are plowing their blighted crops under at this moment in > one of the most blight prone years seen for a long time. Seems that > gallons of Dithane did not save them. > john > >> - >> >> Last Updated: Thursday, 6 January, 2005, 06:27 GMT >> Researchers hail organic potatoes >> Professor Carlo Leifert with the Hungarian 'purple' potato. >> Picture: North News >> No chemicals are used on the potatoes. Picture: North News >> The organic food industry has been given a boost after potatoes >> which can be grown without chemicals but resist deadly diseases >> have been identified. > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to > unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address > subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of > the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/ > sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available > through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 20:42:33 2007 X-UIDL: 368795004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A4334390092; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:41:23 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id AA7B5266850; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7732669A8 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A522667EB for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.001229C1@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 20:39:08 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7273215 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:08 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00122921@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 20:39:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 11581 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 00:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Jul 2007 00:39:07 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l690d7591642 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:39:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l690cqE91216; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:38:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 09072007 #337542, status: clean Message-ID: <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:38:31 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: cc: Jean_Ristaino@ncsu.edu, rbuell@tigr.org, legomez@unity.ncsu.edu, souyang@tigr.org To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795004 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93148 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Katherine Marsh wrote from Ireland: > Sarpo Axona has just started to go down with blight here in north > Dublin, Sarpo Mira is still clear, as is Symfonia. Lady Eve > Balfour survived to this week but showed the first signs of blight > three days ago. I've taken the individual damaged leaves off and I > think it will keep growing and make a worthwhile crop. Across the > road sixty acres of Rooster which have been sprayed with Dithane > at many times the legal limit are being ploughed in today. Does history have to repeat itself? Phytophthora attacks the roots of the pineapple plant and substances produced by the beneficial fungus Pisolithus Tinctorius are specifically active against it. This is good re Phytophthora infestans: (My comments are interspaced 2 spaces to the left) Late blight caused by Phytophthora infestans is a devastating disease of potato and tomato in the U.S. and worldwide. Epidemics due to P. infestans in 1845 led to the Irish potato famine and the mass migration and death of millions of people in Ireland. Late blight is now considered a re-emerging disease and has reached epidemic proportions in North America and Europe due to the development of resistance to the fungicide metalaxyl in populations of the pathogen and the widespread occurrence of new genotypes. Fungicides can't change their actions but beneficial organisms can continue to adapt to any changes the pathogen develops. The pathogen causes a destructive foliar blight and also infects potato tubers and tomato fruit under cool, moist conditions. That's where a compost tea containing P. Tintorius would fit in. ... P. infestans was ranked number two by the American Phytopathological Society on the list of plant pathogen species targeted for DNA sequencing and whole genome sequencing is now underway at the Whitehead Institute at MIT. There is a large database of genetic information available on P. infestans including a genetic linkage map and expressed sequence tag (EST) libraries and genetic systems are tractable. They are attempting to study this pathogen in a vacuum. Studying it's interactions with other organisms would be much more useful. In addition, the Phytophthora research community holds regular meetings and exchanges information freely and has formed the Phytophthora Molecular Genetic Network whose goal is to facilitate the exchange of information and resources related to Phytophthora molecular genetics. Are they looking for the factors that make it a pathogen? ... One tool that would be of use to scientists and growers would be the ability to rapidly genotype isolates of the pathogen. Haplotypes could be correlated with virulence They are. and resistance to pesticides But why limit remediation to chemical solutions that ignore the causative factors and fail to deal with them? Instead of modifying the environment in positive ways, this approach worsens environmental quality and weakens it's equilibrium, diminishing the presence, activity and diversity of the soil microorganisms responsible for soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, as well as growth-stimulating phyto-hormones and substances with anti-biotic activity against pathogens. and used in epidemiological studies In addition, whole mitochondrial genome sequence analysis will be useful in studies to examine molecular evolution in the pathogen. It would be more useful if it's interactions with other species were taken into account, also. ... Project Members # Jean Beagle Ristaino, Professor, Plant Pathology, N. C. State Univ., Jean_Ristaino@ncsu.edu # C. Robin Buell, Associate Investigator, The Institute for Genomic Research, rbuell@tigr.org # Luis Alpizar Gomez, Graduate assistant, NCSU, legomez@unity.ncsu.edu # Shu Ouyang, Bioinformatics Analyst, TIGR, souyang@tigr.org I am sending a copy of this to each of them. -- Douglas Hinds Coordinador Nacional de Producción Organica Confederacion Nacional de Propietarios Rurales Chair, Organic Pineapple Working Group International Society for Horticultural Science http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/opwg Dir. Gral. Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 20:22:41 2007 X-UIDL: 368794986 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ADAE657D0064; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:05:18 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 259932668ED; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB97C2668DA for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6788C2668A0 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0017992E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 19:03:10 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7270963 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:10 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00122935@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 19:03:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 29035 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 23:03:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.151]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jul 2007 23:03:09 -0000 Received: from shield.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68N39e32005 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:03:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68N38S31998 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:03:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 09072007 #337542, status: clean Message-ID: <1054797779.20070708180248@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:02:48 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794986 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93130 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} John D'hondt wrote: > so far my own spuds, mixture of many varieties, are healthy enough > where it seems that many professional growers in Ireland are > plowing their blighted crops under at this moment in one of the > most blight prone years seen for a long time. Seems that gallons > of Dithane did not save them. This is what the dowagro.com website says about it's specialty fungicide dithane: Attention: This product contains mancozeb and ETU, chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer. ETU is also known to the state of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm. Non-selective, cancer causing fungicides are not the answer. The future of agriculture requires a different mentality. Where fungal blight is a problem, try inoculating seed potatoes with Pitholithus Tintorius, a beneficial fungus known to promote plant growth and produce substances with antibiotic activity against pathological fungi. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 16:57:57 2007 X-UIDL: 368794944 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A033863A0080; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:59:31 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 765E2266A1D; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 16:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379AF2669D1 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 16:57:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4422669A4 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 16:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.00087B78@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 16:57:21 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7268349 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 16:57:21 -0400 Received: from mail12.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.00122814@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 16:57:21 -0400 Received: (qmail 22070 messnum 5759547 invoked from network[159.134.213.75/159-134-213-75.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net]); 8 Jul 2007 20:57:14 -0000 Received: from 159-134-213-75.as1.bay.bantry.eircom.net (HELO Targadc5fefe82d) (159.134.213.75) by mail12.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 22070) with SMTP; 8 Jul 2007 20:57:14 -0000 References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:11:01 +0100 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: John D'hondt Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794944 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'dhondt@EIRCOM.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93088 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > John D'hondt might be interested in this. I am Lawrence but so far my own spuds, mixture of many varieties, are healthy enough where it seems that many professional growers in Ireland are plowing their blighted crops under at this moment in one of the most blight prone years seen for a long time. Seems that gallons of Dithane did not save them. john > - > > Last Updated: Thursday, 6 January, 2005, 06:27 GMT > Researchers hail organic potatoes > Professor Carlo Leifert with the Hungarian 'purple' potato. Picture: North > News > No chemicals are used on the potatoes. Picture: North News > The organic food industry has been given a boost after potatoes which can > be grown without chemicals but resist deadly diseases have been > identified. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jun 24 02:21:40 2007 X-UIDL: 368790174 X-Mozilla-Status: 1011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ABAD4E5B005C; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:14:05 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 20927266731; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB4E26672F for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:12:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5498026671D for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.0007B381@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 24 Jun 2007 2:12:14 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 6901796 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:12:14 -0400 Received: from california.com (mail.california.com) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.00115FF1@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 24 Jun 2007 2:12:14 -0400 Received: from [66.81.78.108] ([66.81.78.108] verified) by california.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.7) with ESMTP id 148493327 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:12:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: yarrow@sfo.com@pop3.sfo.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:39:30 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Tanya Kucak Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368790174 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'yarrow@SFO.COM' (366 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 4.33064E-109; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 88318 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} At 12:12 PM -0700 6/19/07, Edna Weigel wrote: > ....While I'm not prepared to argue against small, >supplemental additions of depleted nutrients where needed, I'm a great >believer of adding organic matter (which often includes many needed >nutrients--this can include growing whatever cover crops will grow in the >depleted soil) and adjusting pH where it is acidic (which, I've read many >times, is exacerbated by chemical fertilizers) then allowing microbial life >to "unlock" the nutrients that are already there. The most interesting work on soil fertility I've seen is a few short papers by Roland Bunch based on the work of Ana Primavesi. Basically, she describes the traditional approach to fertilization as the Nutrient Quantity Concept -- the notion that specific nutrients need to be supplied to plants in periodic large doses -- and proposes that in the tropics, the Nutrient Access Concept is more important. This is the notion that plants need constant access to tiny quantities of nutrients, best supplied by nurturing the soil biology and using sufficient compost and mulch. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jun 24 17:13:11 2007 X-UIDL: 368790283 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE9C94A10080; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:14:04 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id A133A2668C0; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA212668B8 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:12:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8442266896 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.00116896@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 24 Jun 2007 17:12:11 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 6921602 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:12:11 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.0011678E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 24 Jun 2007 17:12:11 -0400 Received: from [209.86.224.25] (helo=mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1I2ZNN-0006S4-JU for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:12:05 -0400 Received: from 66.68.150.26 by webmail.atl.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:11:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 85433bad7568b4ab32ff03899a3087401837d74f29496701a803262cf420b1eb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.25 Message-ID: <4663648.1182719518493.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:11:58 -0500 Reply-To: Steve Diver Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368790283 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'steved@IPA.NET' on the allowed list (366 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 88427 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Howdy Frank - Good to see you on Sanet. Texas Plant & Soil Lab uses a unique extraction technique based on C02, so the numbers on the soil test results need to be intepreted via the guidelines established by TPSL. Soil Analysis Guide Sheet --Texas Plant & Soil Lab-- http://www.txplant-soillab.com/page5.htm http://www.txplant-soillab.com/page6.htm Based on your crop response, you've got a good soil program underway. And surely you have other practices and inputs that you haven't mentioned. In an earlier post you made a point that is relevant to this discussion list. The infrastructure of organics that provides seeds, soil fertilty, pest control, and animal feed inputs is lacking in many parts of the U.S. It takes considerable effort on the part of farmers to source these materials; i.e., where you can buy products at wholesale prices. Secondly, the shipping costs are exhorbitant. The cost to ship can double the price of the original product. That's why organic farming associations and cooperatives can help make a difference. They can purchase products in volume and arrange for shipping and pickup at regional locations. Another reailty facing organic farmers is that 90- 100% of the surrounding cropland for corn, cotton, and soybeans is now GMO. Just a few years ago the acreage was about 66%. Now it is 100% in many parts of the cornbelt, cottonbelt, and soybean belt. Herbicide drift and GMO drift is therefore a major factor. Organic farmers have as many challenges today as they did twenty years ago. Best regards, Steve Diver -----Original Message----- >From: "Frank A. Schultz, III" >Sent: Jun 24, 2007 2:08 AM >To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU >Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? > >Joel - > >Sorry for the tardy reply - can't get to the computer much, these days (its >more of a winter activity, you know). Our place is in Red Oak, Texas - >heavy, dense black clay soil (Black Gumbo) with a CEC of 40 to 50, and a pH >of around 7.2 to 7.6. As you may suppose, we use sulphur and sulphur >compounds at every opportunity. The dirt is quite sticky when wet, but >clods are as hard as concrete when dry. The lab that I am presently using >is that of Mr. K. Chandler, Texas Plant & Soil Lab - >www.txplant-soillab.com - a gentleman and establishment well known and >respected in the organic circles of these parts. I may perhaps be able to >send you a pdf (if I can find it) of some of his reports in full from last >year, if you're interested... > >As a brief summary, herewith some average numbers: > >O.M. = 1.30 to 2.15 >Salts E.C. = 0.48 to 0.72 >NO3 #/ac. = 16 to 83 >P2O5 #/ac. = 5 to 16 > >Salt Cations ppm by H2O and by CO2 Extraction Methods: >K = 9 to 15 (H2O) and 30 to 41 (CO2) >Na = 6 to 19 and 52 to 68 >Ca = 95 to 121 and 1075 to 1489 >Mg = 3 to 4 and 16 to 26 > >Ratio Na/Ca = 0 to 1 >Ratio Na/Mg = 17 to 23 >Zn - ppm = 0.31 to 0.56 >Cu - ppm = 0.77 to 0.96 >Fe & Mn test adequate. .... etc .... ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Mon Jun 25 12:58:05 2007 X-UIDL: 368790446 X-Mozilla-Status: 1011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A3433BE60094; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:54:27 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id EEEE326693F; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB87C2667B4 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:52:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7202667BA for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00116F76@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:52:32 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 6945069 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:52:31 -0400 Received: from m09.lax.untd.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.00117151@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:52:31 -0400 Received: from m09.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m09.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDH96YKAV5DF3S for (sender ); Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: yuvueR1meaQQHqpIdghGkNdFdQdp5IvxjXOsEgbMzvSVwN94lu5twQ== Received: (from northsheep@juno.com) by m09.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MQ4KTF7Z; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:52:03 PDT X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,22-27 X-ContentStamp: 10:5:2310514047 X-MAIL-INFO:39eb7a0fcece7f577b0a7a4723aa8bea177bca4a4f4a5b0b6ac3a3bf5b9e0b X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m09.lax.untd.com|northsheep@juno.com Message-ID: <20070625.125134.3216.1.northsheep@juno.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:51:33 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Karl North Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368790446 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'northsheep@JUNO.COM' (366 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 1.54628E-146; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 88590 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Tanya Kucak said: "The most interesting work on soil fertility I've seen is a few short papers by Roland Bunch based on the work of Ana Primavesi. Basically, she describes the traditional approach to fertilization as the Nutrient Quantity Concept -- the notion that specific nutrients need to be supplied to plants in periodic large doses -- and proposes that in the tropics, the Nutrient Access Concept is more important. This is the notion that plants need constant access to tiny quantities of nutrients, best supplied by nurturing the soil biology and using sufficient compost and mulch." I regard the Primavesi work as revolutionary. Because of her work, no longer can anyone justify feeding plants any other way than through the biological channels that nature evolved in the soil community. Her worked demonstrated just how crude and inefficient other methods are in providing the "constant access to tiny quantities of nutrients", which is all the nutrient delivery that plants need to maximize growth and health. To me this means that until someone can demonstrate differently, research on feeding plants must adhere to that finding, and that rule. There may be many ways to enhance that biological delivery system and the health of its constituents and interactions. In my view that is the research agenda that Primavesi's work implies. Karl North Northland Sheep Dairy, Freetown, New York USA www.geocities.com/northsheep/ "Mother Nature never farms without animals" - Albert Howard "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 04:41:46 2007 X-UIDL: 368794702 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A34564F3001E; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:16:53 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id F1AB8266976; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EA7266972 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:15:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF3C266925 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.001220A7@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 1:14:43 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7249387 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:14:42 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00122007@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 1:14:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 2419 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 05:14:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.151]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jul 2007 05:14:41 -0000 Received: from shield.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l685Ef939954 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l685EfS39948 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <46860F6C.4050305@intrex.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 08072007 #337315, status: clean Message-ID: <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:21 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 8. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794702 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 92846 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} >> ... mixing compost with rock dust will help prevent leaching of >> the nutrients in the compost. Micronutrients in the dust will >> nourish the bacteria and fungi in the compost creating new >> nutrient cycling, tieing up some NPK in the compost by those >> microorganisms which then release them to your trees while >> significantly enriching your soil mix with substances (chitin) >> that contribute to tilth and water and nutrient holding capacity. >> That alone should increase total nutrient availability to your >> trees. I would use 50/50 rockdust/compost... >> Have you considered applying enhanced compost tea? ... > I prefer the addition of a generous amount of compost each year, > as I am primarily interested in the constant build-up of organic > and humic matter at the base of the trees, and its interaction > with the soil. The primary function of compost tea is not to enhance the soil's fertility but rather, to increase the presence, activity and diversity of soil microorganisms that generate growth stimulating phyto-hormones and substances with antibiotic activity against pathogens. IOW: Although soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, compost tea is used as a means to provide resistance to pests and disease to a greater extent than compost, since it adheres to the plant's foliage - something compost doesn't do. One is mainly directed toward soil improvement, the other toward crop protection. ... > I live in Israel, ... It would probably be cheaper for you to get > your Barhis from the west coast (they grow them there, right?). Not on the coast, in the desert - the Imperial and Cochella Valleys, and the Sonora Desert. > Anyhow, if anyone on the list is interested in this kind of > bartering, we grow medjool, deglet-noor, barhi and zahidi > varieties. What's your soil like? Zahidi's tend to do better than Deglet's in heavier soils, while Deglet's do better in powdery ones. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 05:01:17 2007 X-UIDL: 368794743 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A84451BB0070; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 05:03:00 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 87F9426688A; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6906B26683F for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:01:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7C626681D for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.001221F9@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 5:00:49 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7252188 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:00:48 -0400 Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <8.0008756C@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 5:00:48 -0400 Received: from ibm62aec.bellsouth.net ([65.5.197.216]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070708090048.FRNA28619.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm62aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:00:48 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [65.5.197.216]) by ibm62aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070708090048.WNAD20509.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:00:48 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <46860F6C.4050305@intrex.net> <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <4690A7BB.4070506@intrex.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:00:43 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 8. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794743 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'lfl@INTREX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 92887 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Douglas Hinds wrote: >>>... mixing compost with rock dust will help prevent leaching of >>>the nutrients in the compost. Micronutrients in the dust will >>>nourish the bacteria and fungi in the compost creating new >>>nutrient cycling, tieing up some NPK in the compost by those >>>microorganisms which then release them to your trees while >>>significantly enriching your soil mix with substances (chitin) >>>that contribute to tilth and water and nutrient holding capacity. > > >>>That alone should increase total nutrient availability to your >>>trees. I would use 50/50 rockdust/compost... > > >>>Have you considered applying enhanced compost tea? ... > > >>I prefer the addition of a generous amount of compost each year, >>as I am primarily interested in the constant build-up of organic >>and humic matter at the base of the trees, and its interaction >>with the soil. > **************** > The primary function of compost tea is not to enhance the soil's > fertility but rather, to increase the presence, activity and > diversity of soil microorganisms that generate growth stimulating > phyto-hormones and substances with antibiotic activity against > pathogens. > > IOW: Although soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and > facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, compost tea is > used as a means to provide resistance to pests and disease to a > greater extent than compost, since it adheres to the plant's foliage > - something compost doesn't do. > > One is mainly directed toward soil improvement, the other toward > crop protection. ***************** Thanks for reminding us of this, Douglas. I captured the lengthy thread in sanet a few years ago where Elaine explains all this in great detail. It was one of those classic debates. Does compost tea work to protect plants from disease and how. I have all that archived. LL -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://market-farming.com/venaurafarm http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 12:25:28 2007 X-UIDL: 368794856 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AB436EE7001E; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:05:23 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 2AD10266A34; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1B42668BE for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:03:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7129E266A32 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.001226E3@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 12:03:14 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7262579 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:03:13 -0400 Received: from fed1rmmtao104.cox.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.001225D2@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 12:03:13 -0400 Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070708160312.FALL1257.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:03:12 -0400 Received: from SALS ([68.6.81.195]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id M4311X0014CqgsL0000000; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:03:12 -0400 References: <46860F6C.4050305@intrex.net> <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Message-ID: <000e01c7c179$7008b190$6401a8c0@SALS> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 09:02:51 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: sals Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) Comments: To: Douglas Hinds To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 8. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794856 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'sals3@COX.NET' (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 2.54409E-193; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93000 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} couldn't u add a good compost tea to the compost and get the best of both worlds? this may also give the life in the tea something to eat while waiting for something to grow . Life needs life and putting out compost tea with a food supply sound like a good idea to me to me unless there is lots of food for that life growing now. Like at my place there is lots for the life in the compost tea to feast on but maybe some places might benefit with the tea and its food put out at the same time. just a thought ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Hinds" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) >>> ... mixing compost with rock dust will help prevent leaching of >>> the nutrients in the compost. Micronutrients in the dust will >>> nourish the bacteria and fungi in the compost creating new >>> nutrient cycling, tieing up some NPK in the compost by those >>> microorganisms which then release them to your trees while >>> significantly enriching your soil mix with substances (chitin) >>> that contribute to tilth and water and nutrient holding capacity. > >>> That alone should increase total nutrient availability to your >>> trees. I would use 50/50 rockdust/compost... > >>> Have you considered applying enhanced compost tea? ... > >> I prefer the addition of a generous amount of compost each year, >> as I am primarily interested in the constant build-up of organic >> and humic matter at the base of the trees, and its interaction >> with the soil. > > The primary function of compost tea is not to enhance the soil's > fertility but rather, to increase the presence, activity and > diversity of soil microorganisms that generate growth stimulating > phyto-hormones and substances with antibiotic activity against > pathogens. > > IOW: Although soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and > facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, compost tea is > used as a means to provide resistance to pests and disease to a > greater extent than compost, since it adheres to the plant's foliage > - something compost doesn't do. > > One is mainly directed toward soil improvement, the other toward > crop protection. > > ... > >> I live in Israel, ... It would probably be cheaper for you to get >> your Barhis from the west coast (they grow them there, right?). > > Not on the coast, in the desert - the Imperial and Cochella Valleys, > and the Sonora Desert. > >> Anyhow, if anyone on the list is interested in this kind of >> bartering, we grow medjool, deglet-noor, barhi and zahidi >> varieties. > > What's your soil like? Zahidi's tend to do better than Deglet's in > heavier soils, while Deglet's do better in powdery ones. > > -- > > Douglas > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to > the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the > SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 15:17:26 2007 X-UIDL: 368794902 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE1CF58E006E; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:34:04 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id A4A5A266AE2; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8369D266767 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:32:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA70266B90 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00179729@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 14:31:49 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7265789 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:31:49 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.00122827@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 14:31:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 25543 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 18:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jul 2007 18:31:48 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68IVm396706 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68IVlE96698 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:47 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <46860F6C.4050305@intrex.net> <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> <000e01c7c179$7008b190$6401a8c0@SALS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 08072007 #337462, status: clean Message-ID: <1652013513.20070708133127@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:27 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000e01c7c179$7008b190$6401a8c0@SALS> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 8. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794902 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93046 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > couldn't u add a good compost tea to the compost and get the best > of both worlds? One goes into the soil, the other coats the plant. > this may also give the life in the tea something to eat while > waiting for something to grow. Life needs life and putting out > compost tea with a food supply sound like a good idea to me to me > unless there is lots of food for that life growing now. The tea concentrates the quantity and extends the application of the microorganisms responsible for the biological foundations of agriculture - in itself, an organism based activity. The products discussed are simply two different applications of that. So while I agree that both applications are complementary, what you suggest prevents one of them from fulfilling it's function. As Elaine has often said, much remains to be learned about the multiple benefits provided by soil microorganisms. Nine years ago I purchased a copy of "Investigaciones Hoy", a magazine published by Mexico's Instituto Politecnico Nacional (IPN), which contained an article describing seven fungi and six bacteria that produce Auxins, Giberelines, Cytokinins, Abscisic Acid and Ethylenes (all of which are considered phyto-hormones, as well as the actions of each on plants. (I am translating from the Spanish forms of these words so some may be misspelled in English). That same year I searched through bio-medical databases for additional information on some of these organisms and was pleased to confirm that substances with antibiotic activity against pathogens are also produced (not surprising, considering that antibiotics were developed from soil microorganisms), by at least some of those organisms mentioned in the IPN article. So if you want to inoculate a plants roots against pathogens that attack those roots, adding compost tea containing the appropriate beneficial microorganisms to the soil around those roots might be wise. But that would be less helpful if you're trying to prevent the infestation or infection of other tissues. > Like at my place there is lots for the life in the compost tea to > feast on but maybe some places might benefit with the tea and its > food put out at the same time. just a thought Don't stop thinking. (I know you won't). As I understand it, compost tea rapidly concentrates and permits the application of the same microorganisms found in the compost you make it from to the rest of the plant. In order to determine your best course of action, you need to know what you should be guarding against. If your present regimen has been sufficient with respect to disease prevention, maybe you don't need to apply compost tea. Elaine promotes the need for performing a kind of soil analysis that's not readily available. She's doing that in her Oregon lab (north of your location), but whether you want or need to go that route is another matter. It *would* tell you what you have in your soil, microbiologically speaking. In addition to knowing what your potential pathogens are and which tissues they attack, knowing which microorganisms are likely to be effective against them and how to make sure they are present in your soil and on your plant -if that's where you need them- would be helpful. Is this kind of information even available? Maybe some of sanet's academics can answer that. As things stand, a generalized belief in the power of the diversity, presence and activity of the kind of microorganisms you obtain by brewing aerobic compost tea to stimulate growth and prevent disease is probably driving most of those using it. The question is: Is that enough? Or should we know more? If so: Why is so much funding channeled toward a research agenda that focuses on reinventing (subverting, actually) an evolutionary path that took millions of years to create? Why are aren't the issues mentioned above being addressed instead? Are we going to study, understand and work *with* natural biological systems or continue to labor in bad faith - against the systems that gave rise to ourselves and life on earth as we know it? Or is that message too hard to package and sell? -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.