From - Mon Apr 21 19:59:15 2003 X-UIDL: 347345821 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A21B512000AC; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:23 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2B8FDB491A; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DFD1B495E for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001636F@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 14537 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from mail.ncat.org (du132.194.onewest.net) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001636E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LNhIx28177 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:43:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20030421175444.4359.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c30834$4330f770$a103fea9@jeffu9jv0ylyde> <3EA479F6.7020002@intrex.net> <003b01c30848$858f3b90$a103fea9@jeffu9jv0ylyde> <3EA4983C.7020108@intrex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3EA4832C.BE988C25@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -6.6 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345821 Robert's description of his wife's batch of rice as a substrate to capture and culture beneficial microorganisms living in the forest floor is IM. EM, in contrast, is only made by master brewers. It is a specific set of microbes and microbial brewing process. Yet EM and IM are used in a similar way in terms of spraying on piles of manures, composts, and animal bedding to enhance microbial remediation... or to inoculate soils and plants with beneficial microbes, bioactive substances, and liquid nutrients. Steve Diver > From - Mon Apr 21 12:45:56 2003 X-UIDL: 347345766 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A11B719F00A0; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:15 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0FE81B48B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C12B4925 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30242003D; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBB52003A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LFf7x18770 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:41:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA41228.1FE9BB6B@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:45:44 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345766 BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) | BioImages.org.uk http://www.bioimages.org.uk/ 3,187 Taxa 30,113 Images "BioImages (VFG-UK) is programmatically built from a 4th Dimension Database." Another database example with lots of plants, insects, and life form photos. The author made extensive use of a digitial camera to collect photo images of field specimans, as well as a flatbed scanner to compile "herbarium" samples of leaves and flowers and mushrooms in digital color. Shortcut to Taxonomy / Phyla / Database fields. http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/SHORTCUT.HTM Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Fri Sep 06 11:53:35 2002 X-UIDL: 322728712 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE0EDF7F0084; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:47:26 -0400 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADA562FD005C; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:45:50 -0400 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id SAL7H09Q; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:45:23 -0400 Received: FROM nt-task BY nt-web ; Fri Sep 06 11:48:03 2002 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 134702 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:48:02 -0400 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0d) with TCP; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:48:01 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g86FpCX22627 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:51:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3D78E95A.7090901@intrex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ncatark.uark.edu id g86FpCX22627 Message-ID: <3D78D021.2C32906F@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:56:18 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Glomalin, the Unsung Hero of Carbon Storage To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [209.42.192.250] X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322728712 Status: U Also see: "Glomalin=97Soil's Superglue" Agricultural Research magazine | October 1997 http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/oct97/glomalin1097.htm And especially, the ARS web page on Glomalin and Sara Wright's work at: Glomalin - an Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Glycoprotein http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/glomalin/glomalin.html Of special interest is the USDA brochure, a 5-page PDF: Glomalin, A Manageable Soil Glue http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/glomalin/brochure.pdf Best, Steve Diver "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote: > ---------- > From: ARS News Service > Reply-To: ARS News Service > Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:15:03 -0400 > To: ARS News subscriber > Subject: Glomalin, the Unsung Hero of Carbon Storage > > STORY LEAD: > Glomalin, the Unsung Hero of Carbon Storage > ___________________________________________ > > ARS News Service > Agricultural Research Service, USDA > Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, comis@ars.usda.gov > September 6, 2002 > ___________________________________________ > > Glomalin, a recently discovered major component of soil organic matter, > stores about a third of the world's soil carbon, offsetting industrial > pollution. This is according to a recent collaborative study by scienti= sts > with the Agricultural Research Service and the University of Maryland > (U-MD) at College Park. The study was partially funded by the U.S. > Department of Energy. > > The study was done by Kristine A. Nichols, a U-MD soil science Ph.D. > candidate and technician at ARS' Sustainable Agricultural Systems > Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., along with colleagues Sara F. Wright and= E. > Kudjo Dzantor. Wright, an ARS soil scientist, discovered glomalin in 19= 96, > and Dzantor is a U-MD soil scientist. > > Glomalin is a sticky protein produced by root-dwelling fungi and slough= ed > into soil as roots grow. By gluing soil particles and organic matter > together, it stabilizes soil and keeps carbon from escaping into the > atmosphere. In an earlier study, Wright found that glomalin serves as a > corrective to global warming because it increases with carbon dioxide > levels. > > Nichols and colleagues detected large amounts of glomalin in soils from > four states, showing it to be a major part of organic matter. The gloma= lin > weighed 2 to 24 times as much as humic acid, which was previously thoug= ht > to store the most carbon. But Nichols found that humic acid only stored= 8 > percent of total soil carbon compared to glomalin's 27 percent. > > Wright has found glomalin in soils from around the world, ranging in > weight from less than 1 milligram per gram (mg/g) of sample to more tha= n > 100 mg/g. She found the highest levels in Hawaiian and Japanese soils, > indicating that some soils might be able to store large amounts of carb= on > in glomalin with a turnover rate of 7 to 42 years. She is on a team > investigating underground carbon storage in tropical forests, thought t= o > be major carbon reservoirs. > > For more on glomalin, see the September 2002 issue of Agricultural > Research magazine, online at: > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep02/soil0902.htm > > ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research > agency. > ___________________________________________ > * This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to > subscribers on weekdays. > * Start, stop or change an e-mail subscription at > www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/subscribe.htm > * The latest news is always at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm > * NewsService@ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/is > * Phone (301) 504-1638 | fax (301) 504-1648 . From - Tue Aug 20 11:31:34 2002 X-UIDL: 322727950 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADC6319D0142; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:18:30 -0400 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADA44D6005C; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:17:56 -0400 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id QXGA3X2K; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:17:23 -0400 Received: FROM nt-task BY nt-web ; Tue Aug 20 11:20:26 2002 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 114245 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:20:25 -0400 Received: from 130.184.56.141 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0d) with TCP; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:20:24 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g7KFN6Q21970 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:23:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <16578462453.20020815203216@gmx.net> <044b01c2450f$fd8764d0$056fd63f@home> <200208171402.g7HE2hSj011948@grits.crosslink.net> <073501c2464f$e87a8720$73673bcb@dmflkwfouhswsa> <3D5F6C29.43D8C95E@earthlink.net> <081201c24790$b328bf50$73673bcb@dmflkwfouhswsa> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3D625FCD.78FB709D@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: cations + chelation + amino acids To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [209.42.192.250] X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322727950 Status: U Was..... Re: Low Tech Soil Health Methodologies for Farmers David Menne wrote: > Because alkali metals, and a goodly proportion [viz the unchelated] alkali > earth metals occur as cations [demonstably by various physical phenomena] in > aqueous systems and not as whole molecules. Single charge cations of course > by definition cannot form chelates ["held by twin bonding"], despite what a > lot of the fringe nutritional health product supply industry claim. Well, I see that monovalent potassium is among the amino acid chelated mineral products at Albion Laboratories. The Metasolates line of foliar fertilization products are certified organic. See: Albion Laboratories http://www.albionlabs.com A related site that comes to mind when amino acids and foliar fertilizers come up in organic fertilization is Delbon in France, supplying liquid fertilizer products like Protaminal geared to foliar fertilization and fertigation. Delbon - The specialist in environmentally-friendly liquid fertilizers http://www.delbon.com/main/index-us.htm The technical glossary, fertilization files, crop files, and amino acid summary are especially noteworthy. Steve Diver . From - Wed Aug 21 12:31:34 2002 X-UIDL: 322727974 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE521571010A; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:22:42 -0400 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE21B4F8018A; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:21:53 -0400 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id RLKT446M; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:21:28 -0400 Received: FROM nt-task BY nt-web ; Wed Aug 21 12:24:33 2002 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 115108 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:24:31 -0400 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0d) with TCP; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:24:31 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g7LGRCQ04344 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:27:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ncatark.uark.edu id g7LGRCQ04344 Message-ID: <3D63C055.F6953FBF@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:31:17 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Agriculture biodiversity at UNEP-BPSP To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [209.42.192.250] X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322727974 Status: U Here's a resource for your sustainable agriculture toolbox, relating to agriculture biodiversity. Steve Diver ATTRA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Managing Agricultural Resources for Biodiversity Conservation: A Guide to Best Practices http://www.unep.org/bpsp/Agrobiodiversity/agrobiodiversity%20thematic/agb= ioguide.pdf 78-page PDF By Barbara Gemmill, 2001 Environmental Liaison Centre International, Nairobi, Kenya With Support from: Biodiversity Planning Support Programme (BPSP) Global Environment Facility (GEF) United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) Nice layout, summary, and resource listings for the following topics 1. Principles for Conserving Farm Genetic Resources 2. Principles for Conserving Agricultural Ecosystem Services 3. Principles for Conserving Biodiverse Agricultural Landscapes Source: UNEP-BPSP Thematic Studies Integration of Biodiversity into National Agriculture Sectors http://www.unep.org/bpsp/HTML%20files/TS-Agriculture.html Also see: 2. National Experiences with Integrating Biodiversity into the Agricultural Sector: 6 Regional Case Studies http://www.unep.org/bpsp/HTML%20files/TS-Agriculture2.html 3. Scientific Reviews of National Experiences and Approaches: 7 Expert Reviews http://www.unep.org/bpsp/HTML%20files/TS-Agriculture3.html 4. Managing Agricultural Resources for Biodiversity Conservation: Annotated Bibliography http://www.unep.org/bpsp/Agrobiodiversity/agrobiodiversity%20thematic/agb= iblio.pdf 71-page PDF 5. List of Relevant Web-based Resources on Agrobiodiversity http://www.unep.org/bpsp/Agrobiodiversity/agrobiodiversity%20thematic/web= -basedbiblio.pdf 18-page PDF The Bibliography provides this background material: One of the outcomes of the RIO SUMMIT (United Nations Conference On environment and Development) of 1992 was the signing of the Convention on Biological Diversity, which has now been ratified by over 100 countries. By ratifying this convention, countries commit to implementing the agreements and programme of work as it is developed through the =93Conferences of Parties=94, which occur more or less every two years. When the Convention was originally drafted, agricultural biodiversity was not included as an aspect of biodiversity. But such a clamour has been raised as to the importance of agrobiodiversity, and so much attention has been drawn to such trend as: the precipitous loss of landraces of cultivated crops, and the very large proportion of biodiversity, in general, that occurs in human-dominated landscapes. As a consequence, agricultural biodiversity was included in the scope of the convention, and FAO was given the mandate as overall taskmaster for the subject. To a large degree, the focus on agrobiodiversity up until now has been on conservation and utilization of plant genetic resources, and its concomitant issues of access to genetic resources (for example, by plant breeders or pharmaceutical researchers) and fair and equitable benefit sharing (with communities or indigenous peoples who have shared or shepherded such resources over time). However, the Convention on Biological Diversity has recognized its need to liaise thoroughly with the scientific community and through this liaison, with respect to agricultural biodiversity, a number of other thematic focal areas have been established. The present list of areas are: Pollinators. Soil biodiversity Biodiversity that provides mitigation of pests and diseases Crop genetic resources Livestock genetic resources Diversity at the landscape level Wild biodiversity in agroecosystems It is now accepted that the =93Programme of work=94 of the Convention on Biological Diversity should include the conservation, sustainable use and benefit sharing of all of these focal areas. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D . From - Fri Sep 06 11:53:35 2002 X-UIDL: 322728712 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE0EDF7F0084; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:47:26 -0400 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADA562FD005C; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:45:50 -0400 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id SAL7H09Q; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:45:23 -0400 Received: FROM nt-task BY nt-web ; Fri Sep 06 11:48:03 2002 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 134702 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:48:02 -0400 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0d) with TCP; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:48:01 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g86FpCX22627 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:51:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3D78E95A.7090901@intrex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ncatark.uark.edu id g86FpCX22627 Message-ID: <3D78D021.2C32906F@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:56:18 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Glomalin, the Unsung Hero of Carbon Storage To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [209.42.192.250] X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322728712 Status: U Also see: "Glomalin=97Soil's Superglue" Agricultural Research magazine | October 1997 http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/oct97/glomalin1097.htm And especially, the ARS web page on Glomalin and Sara Wright's work at: Glomalin - an Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Glycoprotein http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/glomalin/glomalin.html Of special interest is the USDA brochure, a 5-page PDF: Glomalin, A Manageable Soil Glue http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/glomalin/brochure.pdf Best, Steve Diver "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote: > ---------- > From: ARS News Service > Reply-To: ARS News Service > Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:15:03 -0400 > To: ARS News subscriber > Subject: Glomalin, the Unsung Hero of Carbon Storage > > STORY LEAD: > Glomalin, the Unsung Hero of Carbon Storage > ___________________________________________ > > ARS News Service > Agricultural Research Service, USDA > Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, comis@ars.usda.gov > September 6, 2002 > ___________________________________________ > > Glomalin, a recently discovered major component of soil organic matter, > stores about a third of the world's soil carbon, offsetting industrial > pollution. This is according to a recent collaborative study by scienti= sts > with the Agricultural Research Service and the University of Maryland > (U-MD) at College Park. The study was partially funded by the U.S. > Department of Energy. > > The study was done by Kristine A. Nichols, a U-MD soil science Ph.D. > candidate and technician at ARS' Sustainable Agricultural Systems > Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., along with colleagues Sara F. Wright and= E. > Kudjo Dzantor. Wright, an ARS soil scientist, discovered glomalin in 19= 96, > and Dzantor is a U-MD soil scientist. > > Glomalin is a sticky protein produced by root-dwelling fungi and slough= ed > into soil as roots grow. By gluing soil particles and organic matter > together, it stabilizes soil and keeps carbon from escaping into the > atmosphere. In an earlier study, Wright found that glomalin serves as a > corrective to global warming because it increases with carbon dioxide > levels. > > Nichols and colleagues detected large amounts of glomalin in soils from > four states, showing it to be a major part of organic matter. The gloma= lin > weighed 2 to 24 times as much as humic acid, which was previously thoug= ht > to store the most carbon. But Nichols found that humic acid only stored= 8 > percent of total soil carbon compared to glomalin's 27 percent. > > Wright has found glomalin in soils from around the world, ranging in > weight from less than 1 milligram per gram (mg/g) of sample to more tha= n > 100 mg/g. She found the highest levels in Hawaiian and Japanese soils, > indicating that some soils might be able to store large amounts of carb= on > in glomalin with a turnover rate of 7 to 42 years. She is on a team > investigating underground carbon storage in tropical forests, thought t= o > be major carbon reservoirs. > > For more on glomalin, see the September 2002 issue of Agricultural > Research magazine, online at: > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep02/soil0902.htm > > ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research > agency. > ___________________________________________ > * This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to > subscribers on weekdays. > * Start, stop or change an e-mail subscription at > www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/subscribe.htm > * The latest news is always at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm > * NewsService@ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/is > * Phone (301) 504-1638 | fax (301) 504-1648 . From - Fri Sep 06 14:33:06 2002 X-UIDL: 322728718 X-Mozilla-Status: 1003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A36B34A4007A; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:26:51 -0400 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A302BD6601CC; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:25:06 -0400 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id SAL72MFW; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:24:50 -0400 Received: FROM nt-task BY nt-web ; Fri Sep 06 14:27:27 2002 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 135366 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:27:26 -0400 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0d) with TCP; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:27:26 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g86IUaX25381 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:30:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3D78F57F.B04568BA@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Symbiotic mycorrhizal fungi resources To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [209.42.192.250] X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322728718 Status: U "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote: > Topics I am interested in learning more about include: > mycorrhizal fungi > ectomycorrhizal fungi > endomycorrhizal fungi See my resource listing; expanded and updated December 2001. It lists mycorrhizal suppliers and features key web- and print-based resources on mycorrhizae; some fascinating knowledge exists amongst all these resource links. Symbiotic Mycorrhizal Fungi: Quarterback of the Microbial Herd http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/mycorrhizae.html Want to go even deeper, check out these rough web notes containing additional resources; some very good; supplemental to the above resource list. Index of /~steved/archives/mycorrhizae http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/archives/mycorrhizae/ I was teaching a workshop and found it helpful to provide this analogy. It may not be 100% botanically accurate in every situation, but it helps to get people into mycorrhizae-land fairly quickly. Mycorrhizae is the root-fungus association, not the fungus itself. Though, it is accurate to say mycorrhizal fungi to indicate their ability to form symbiotic mycorrhizal associations. Think of lichen growing on trees. Lichen is an association of algae and fungi, an above-ground symbiosis. The fusion of these two organisms actually creates a new organism that has tissue growth which looks distinctly different from the parent organisms. Mycorrhizae is an association of mycorrhizal fungi and plant roots, a below-ground symbiosis. Some mycorrhizal associations actually grow a form of fused root-fungus tissue that extends a few millimeters into the surrounding soil, thus expanding the plant root rhizosphere and therefore the plant's ability to acquire water and nutrients. Here's another one. In one of those web note resources, a forestry publication from Canada, it says that a typical forest in British Columbia may contain 4,000 to 5,000 species of fungus that form mycorrhizal associations with tree root systems. Best, Steve Diver ATTRA . From - Fri Sep 06 14:49:20 2002 X-UIDL: 322728723 X-Mozilla-Status: 1001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6B6BACA0040; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:40:54 -0400 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A64C2CB70050; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:39:08 -0400 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id SAL7238Z; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:38:57 -0400 Received: FROM nt-task BY nt-web ; Fri Sep 06 14:41:36 2002 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 135398 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:41:36 -0400 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0d) with TCP; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:41:35 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g86IikX25675 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:44:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3D78E95A.7090901@intrex.net> <3D78D021.2C32906F@ncatark.uark.edu> <3D78FDC6.3010700@intrex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ncatark.uark.edu id g86IikX25675 Message-ID: <3D78F8D1.4D3D852B@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:49:53 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Permaculture guilds To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [209.42.192.250] X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322728723 Status: U "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote: > I, too, am interested in guilds, the permaculture concept. I would be i= nterested in > reading a definition of guilds and seeing websites with examples of the= m. Yes it will be very helpful to get a clearer idea with accompanying examples of permaculture guilds and how they relate to or differ from ecological guilds; how they can be designed and established; expected and hoped-for results. Agroforestry, permaculture, polyculture, intercropping, mixed cropping, farmscaping, planned biodiversity, understory, overstory, multi-story, stereo farming, canopy layers, riparian buffer strips, border strips, shelterbelts, hedgerows, alleycropping, forest farming, forest gardens, multi-tierred, multi-layered.... and so forth; all these inter-cropping systems that involve perennials and annuals and woody plants and herbaceous plant mixtures can probably benefit or generate additional synergy from the concept of a permaculture guild. Here's one item on polyculture that came to mind. The summary page below points to a 115-page PDF report. The acknowledgement section provides an interesting story about Bill Mollison that provides insight to the origins of permaculture with its emphasis on ecological design. "In November 1959, watching marsupial browsers in the floristically simple rainforests of Tasmania, I wrote in my diary: =91I believe that we could build systems that would function as well as this one does.=92" ..... Bill Mollison Polyculture Production Principles, Benefits and Risks of Multiple Cropping Land Management Systems for Australia RIRDC | Australia | May 2001 http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/ORG/01-34sum.html Best, Steve Diver ATTRA . From - Mon Apr 21 12:45:56 2003 X-UIDL: 347345766 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A11B719F00A0; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:15 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0FE81B48B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C12B4925 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30242003D; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBB52003A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LFf7x18770 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:41:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA41228.1FE9BB6B@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:45:44 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345766 BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) | BioImages.org.uk http://www.bioimages.org.uk/ 3,187 Taxa 30,113 Images "BioImages (VFG-UK) is programmatically built from a 4th Dimension Database." Another database example with lots of plants, insects, and life form photos. The author made extensive use of a digitial camera to collect photo images of field specimans, as well as a flatbed scanner to compile "herbarium" samples of leaves and flowers and mushrooms in digital color. Shortcut to Taxonomy / Phyla / Database fields. http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/SHORTCUT.HTM Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Mon Apr 21 19:59:15 2003 X-UIDL: 347345821 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A21B512000AC; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:23 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2B8FDB491A; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DFD1B495E for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001636F@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 14537 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from mail.ncat.org (du132.194.onewest.net) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001636E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LNhIx28177 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:43:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20030421175444.4359.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c30834$4330f770$a103fea9@jeffu9jv0ylyde> <3EA479F6.7020002@intrex.net> <003b01c30848$858f3b90$a103fea9@jeffu9jv0ylyde> <3EA4983C.7020108@intrex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3EA4832C.BE988C25@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -6.6 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345821 Robert's description of his wife's batch of rice as a substrate to capture and culture beneficial microorganisms living in the forest floor is IM. EM, in contrast, is only made by master brewers. It is a specific set of microbes and microbial brewing process. Yet EM and IM are used in a similar way in terms of spraying on piles of manures, composts, and animal bedding to enhance microbial remediation... or to inoculate soils and plants with beneficial microbes, bioactive substances, and liquid nutrients. Steve Diver > From - Mon Apr 21 12:45:56 2003 X-UIDL: 347345766 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A11B719F00A0; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:15 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0FE81B48B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C12B4925 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30242003D; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBB52003A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LFf7x18770 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:41:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA41228.1FE9BB6B@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:45:44 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345766 BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) | BioImages.org.uk http://www.bioimages.org.uk/ 3,187 Taxa 30,113 Images "BioImages (VFG-UK) is programmatically built from a 4th Dimension Database." Another database example with lots of plants, insects, and life form photos. The author made extensive use of a digitial camera to collect photo images of field specimans, as well as a flatbed scanner to compile "herbarium" samples of leaves and flowers and mushrooms in digital color. Shortcut to Taxonomy / Phyla / Database fields. http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/SHORTCUT.HTM Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Mon Apr 21 19:59:15 2003 X-UIDL: 347345821 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A21B512000AC; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:23 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2B8FDB491A; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DFD1B495E for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001636F@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 14537 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from mail.ncat.org (du132.194.onewest.net) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001636E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400 Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LNhIx28177 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:43:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20030421175444.4359.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c30834$4330f770$a103fea9@jeffu9jv0ylyde> <3EA479F6.7020002@intrex.net> <003b01c30848$858f3b90$a103fea9@jeffu9jv0ylyde> <3EA4983C.7020108@intrex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3EA4832C.BE988C25@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -6.6 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345821 Robert's description of his wife's batch of rice as a substrate to capture and culture beneficial microorganisms living in the forest floor is IM. EM, in contrast, is only made by master brewers. It is a specific set of microbes and microbial brewing process. Yet EM and IM are used in a similar way in terms of spraying on piles of manures, composts, and animal bedding to enhance microbial remediation... or to inoculate soils and plants with beneficial microbes, bioactive substances, and liquid nutrients. Steve Diver > From - Mon Apr 21 13:43:20 2003 X-UIDL: 347345770 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A38810D000B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:59:52 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 49B76B4844; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C49AB490A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F592001F; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13AA20019 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LGxex26005 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:59:40 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA42490.D8B94F1C@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:04:16 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BD, CT, EM, IM, FPE = special cultures in organic farming X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345770 Larry asked for resources on: "If anyone has anything to add on compost, EM, IM, fermented plant extracts and 24 hour compost tea, that be much appreciated.." There is no faster way to share resources on this than to just list the SANET, BD-Now, and Compost postings where I have summarized these already, in addition to the ATTRA publications on CT and BD. Somebody needed these last week, so I put the following list together. See resources below on BD, CT, EM, IM, and FPE. Especially see the long SANET post on November 6, 2002 regarding Fermented Plant Extracts and EM-FPE. Fermented plant extracts -- most commonly done as a plain liquid manure or plant extract -- though the use of EM to make EM-FPE is growing -- is a dynamic practice gaining increased usage in India, Africa, Asia, and Central America where poor farmers need to obtain fertility and pest control from local plants and simple on-farm extraction methods. See the SANET posting for links to the really interesting and detailed work underway in India. EM (Effective Microorganisms) from the Kyusei Nature Farming system in Japan. EM-FPE, the EM-Fermented Plant Extracts. IM (Indigenous Microorganisms), or IMO's, from the Korean Natural Farming Association. In January 2003, Gil Carandang and myself put on an IMO workshop at the EcoFarm Conference in Asilomar, California. Making these IMO cultures on the farm is one of the most exciting developments I've seen in organic farming. See the SANET posting of January 19, 2003 for background resources. The book by Han Kyu Cho and Atsushi Koyama, "Korean Natural Farming: Indigenous Microorganisms and Vital Power of Crop/Livestock," is the primary source in English. Yet, the book is not easy to obtain. Gil Carandang is offering his little booklet from the workshop, which is a photocopy of his practical notes on making these IMO cultures as well as illustrations from Han Kyu Cho's book. If you can get to one of Gil's workshop, you will have fun and learn a lot. The Korean Natural Farming approach with IMO's add a whole new dimension to your farming experience. The solutions that result from CT, EM, IM and FPE can be viewed as "special cultures" that contain beneficial microbes, nutrients, and bioactive substances. BD (biodynamics) has "special cultures" in the form of CPP (Cow pat pit) or Barrell Compost (BC); Horn Manure (BD 500), BD Preps, etc. CT, EM, IM, FPE and BD "special cultures" are cutting edge organic farming techniques in terms of fertility, biostimulation, growth promotion, and biocontrol of pests and diseases. Most notably, these special cultures can be viewed as biocontrol techniques in the rhizosphere and phyllosophere. CT, EM, IM, FPE and BD are some of the advanced organic farming approches that are being employed to combat insect pests and diseases. They offer complex biological, chemical, physical, and energetic interactions to manipulate plant physiology, pests, and pest habitats. Regards, Steve Diver ATTRA =================================================== Topic: Compost Teas For reference, see: Notes on Compost Tea ATTRA http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html Compost Teas for Plant Disease Control ATTRA http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/comptea.html Here are the two latest resources, beyond those listed in the ATTRA publication "Notes on Compost Tea": There is a Compost Tea Web Forum on Yahoo!Groups. Compost Tea at Yahoo!Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/ The following paper from Steve Scheuerell in the journal Compost Science & Utilization contains the very latest literature reviews. Steve Scheuerell. 2002. Compost tea: Principles and prospects for plant disease control (Literature review). Compost Science & Utilization. Autumn. Vol. 10, No. 4. page 313- 26 pages Also see: Subject: Re: Species diversity + Plate Culture Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:51:37 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0211&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=7413 _____ See notes on the Midwest Bio-Systems approach to identify, select and culture beneficial microbial strains. MBS then uses selected strains as amendments to compost teas to make a complete liquid biological tea/fertilizer/biocontrol. =================================================== Topic: Alternative Farming Systems: terminology, concepts, practices Subject: Re: farming systems comparison Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:06:26 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0211&L=sanet-mg&P=R12433&I=-3 =================================================== Topic: EM - Effective Microorganisms See these postings on SANET, BD-Now, and USCC Subject: Re: Effective Micro-organisms (EM) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:06:53 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0104&L=sanet-mg&P=R29647&I=-3 Subject: Re: Effective Micro-organisms (EM) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:28:32 -0600 Reply-To: steved@ncatark.uark.edu Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU> From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0104&L=sanet-mg&P=R31022&I=-3 Re: EM - was vortex pump 16 May 2002 21:20 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/msg02466.html [USCC] Re: produce waste storage Thu Dec 6 20:18:52 2001 U.S. Compost Council List Steve Diver steved@ncatark.uark.edu http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2001-December/003372.html [USCC] Re: EM Mon Feb 12 13:30:22 2001 U.S. Compost Council List Steve Diver steved@ncatark.uark.edu http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2001-February/002495.html Subject: Re: COMPOSTING TECHNIQUES (Effective Microorganisms) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:25:50 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0203&L=sanet-mg&P=R31718&I=-3 Subject: Re: Regulation of compost teas (Effective Microorganisms) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:41:53 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0211&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=8254 _____ Note: This is the long post that contains notes on EM-FPE, or EM-Fermented Plant Extracts, and the websites in India that summarize this technology. Subject: Re: Beneficial Soil Microbia (Effective Microorganisms) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:35:18 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0212&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=10020 =================================================== Topic: IM See these postings on SANET and BD-Now Subject: Indigenous Microorganisms + Korean Natural Farming Association Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:00:57 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=23043 Subject: Re: Indigenous Microorganisms + Korean Natural Farming Association Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:22:08 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=23833 Subject: Re: Soil Equilibrium Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:51:51 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=4653 Fermented foods in China, book review 14 March 2003 03:01 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2003/bdnow/msg01674.html =================================================== Topic: Biodynamic Farming preparations and special cultures For reference, see: Biodynamic Farming & Compost Preparation ATTRA http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/biodynamic.html Also see: Microbial assay of BD preps at ICRISAT (India) = microbial antagonism 15 June 2002 22:23 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/msg02815.html Re: Microbial assay of BD preps at ICRISAT (India) = microbialantagonism 17 June 2002 16:30 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/msg02850.html =================================================== =================================================== _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Mon Apr 21 13:43:20 2003 X-UIDL: 347345770 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A38810D000B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:59:52 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 49B76B4844; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C49AB490A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F592001F; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13AA20019 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LGxex26005 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:59:40 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA42490.D8B94F1C@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:04:16 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BD, CT, EM, IM, FPE = special cultures in organic farming X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345770 Larry asked for resources on: "If anyone has anything to add on compost, EM, IM, fermented plant extracts and 24 hour compost tea, that be much appreciated.." There is no faster way to share resources on this than to just list the SANET, BD-Now, and Compost postings where I have summarized these already, in addition to the ATTRA publications on CT and BD. Somebody needed these last week, so I put the following list together. See resources below on BD, CT, EM, IM, and FPE. Especially see the long SANET post on November 6, 2002 regarding Fermented Plant Extracts and EM-FPE. Fermented plant extracts -- most commonly done as a plain liquid manure or plant extract -- though the use of EM to make EM-FPE is growing -- is a dynamic practice gaining increased usage in India, Africa, Asia, and Central America where poor farmers need to obtain fertility and pest control from local plants and simple on-farm extraction methods. See the SANET posting for links to the really interesting and detailed work underway in India. EM (Effective Microorganisms) from the Kyusei Nature Farming system in Japan. EM-FPE, the EM-Fermented Plant Extracts. IM (Indigenous Microorganisms), or IMO's, from the Korean Natural Farming Association. In January 2003, Gil Carandang and myself put on an IMO workshop at the EcoFarm Conference in Asilomar, California. Making these IMO cultures on the farm is one of the most exciting developments I've seen in organic farming. See the SANET posting of January 19, 2003 for background resources. The book by Han Kyu Cho and Atsushi Koyama, "Korean Natural Farming: Indigenous Microorganisms and Vital Power of Crop/Livestock," is the primary source in English. Yet, the book is not easy to obtain. Gil Carandang is offering his little booklet from the workshop, which is a photocopy of his practical notes on making these IMO cultures as well as illustrations from Han Kyu Cho's book. If you can get to one of Gil's workshop, you will have fun and learn a lot. The Korean Natural Farming approach with IMO's add a whole new dimension to your farming experience. The solutions that result from CT, EM, IM and FPE can be viewed as "special cultures" that contain beneficial microbes, nutrients, and bioactive substances. BD (biodynamics) has "special cultures" in the form of CPP (Cow pat pit) or Barrell Compost (BC); Horn Manure (BD 500), BD Preps, etc. CT, EM, IM, FPE and BD "special cultures" are cutting edge organic farming techniques in terms of fertility, biostimulation, growth promotion, and biocontrol of pests and diseases. Most notably, these special cultures can be viewed as biocontrol techniques in the rhizosphere and phyllosophere. CT, EM, IM, FPE and BD are some of the advanced organic farming approches that are being employed to combat insect pests and diseases. They offer complex biological, chemical, physical, and energetic interactions to manipulate plant physiology, pests, and pest habitats. Regards, Steve Diver ATTRA =================================================== Topic: Compost Teas For reference, see: Notes on Compost Tea ATTRA http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html Compost Teas for Plant Disease Control ATTRA http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/comptea.html Here are the two latest resources, beyond those listed in the ATTRA publication "Notes on Compost Tea": There is a Compost Tea Web Forum on Yahoo!Groups. Compost Tea at Yahoo!Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/ The following paper from Steve Scheuerell in the journal Compost Science & Utilization contains the very latest literature reviews. Steve Scheuerell. 2002. Compost tea: Principles and prospects for plant disease control (Literature review). Compost Science & Utilization. Autumn. Vol. 10, No. 4. page 313- 26 pages Also see: Subject: Re: Species diversity + Plate Culture Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:51:37 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0211&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=7413 _____ See notes on the Midwest Bio-Systems approach to identify, select and culture beneficial microbial strains. MBS then uses selected strains as amendments to compost teas to make a complete liquid biological tea/fertilizer/biocontrol. =================================================== Topic: Alternative Farming Systems: terminology, concepts, practices Subject: Re: farming systems comparison Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:06:26 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0211&L=sanet-mg&P=R12433&I=-3 =================================================== Topic: EM - Effective Microorganisms See these postings on SANET, BD-Now, and USCC Subject: Re: Effective Micro-organisms (EM) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:06:53 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0104&L=sanet-mg&P=R29647&I=-3 Subject: Re: Effective Micro-organisms (EM) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:28:32 -0600 Reply-To: steved@ncatark.uark.edu Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU> From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0104&L=sanet-mg&P=R31022&I=-3 Re: EM - was vortex pump 16 May 2002 21:20 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/msg02466.html [USCC] Re: produce waste storage Thu Dec 6 20:18:52 2001 U.S. Compost Council List Steve Diver steved@ncatark.uark.edu http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2001-December/003372.html [USCC] Re: EM Mon Feb 12 13:30:22 2001 U.S. Compost Council List Steve Diver steved@ncatark.uark.edu http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2001-February/002495.html Subject: Re: COMPOSTING TECHNIQUES (Effective Microorganisms) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:25:50 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0203&L=sanet-mg&P=R31718&I=-3 Subject: Re: Regulation of compost teas (Effective Microorganisms) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:41:53 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0211&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=8254 _____ Note: This is the long post that contains notes on EM-FPE, or EM-Fermented Plant Extracts, and the websites in India that summarize this technology. Subject: Re: Beneficial Soil Microbia (Effective Microorganisms) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:35:18 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0212&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=10020 =================================================== Topic: IM See these postings on SANET and BD-Now Subject: Indigenous Microorganisms + Korean Natural Farming Association Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:00:57 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=23043 Subject: Re: Indigenous Microorganisms + Korean Natural Farming Association Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:22:08 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=23833 Subject: Re: Soil Equilibrium Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:51:51 -0600 Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU From: Steve Diver http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=4653 Fermented foods in China, book review 14 March 2003 03:01 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2003/bdnow/msg01674.html =================================================== Topic: Biodynamic Farming preparations and special cultures For reference, see: Biodynamic Farming & Compost Preparation ATTRA http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/biodynamic.html Also see: Microbial assay of BD preps at ICRISAT (India) = microbial antagonism 15 June 2002 22:23 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/msg02815.html Re: Microbial assay of BD preps at ICRISAT (India) = microbialantagonism 17 June 2002 16:30 UTC BD-Now || Biodynamics Discussion List by Steve Diver http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/msg02850.html =================================================== =================================================== _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Mon Apr 21 12:45:56 2003 X-UIDL: 347345766 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A11B719F00A0; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:15 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0FE81B48B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C12B4925 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30242003D; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBB52003A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LFf7x18770 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:41:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA41228.1FE9BB6B@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:45:44 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345766 BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) | BioImages.org.uk http://www.bioimages.org.uk/ 3,187 Taxa 30,113 Images "BioImages (VFG-UK) is programmatically built from a 4th Dimension Database." Another database example with lots of plants, insects, and life form photos. The author made extensive use of a digitial camera to collect photo images of field specimans, as well as a flatbed scanner to compile "herbarium" samples of leaves and flowers and mushrooms in digital color. Shortcut to Taxonomy / Phyla / Database fields. http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/SHORTCUT.HTM Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Mon Apr 21 12:45:56 2003 X-UIDL: 347345766 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A11B719F00A0; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:15 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0FE81B48B6; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C12B4925 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30242003D; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBB52003A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3LFf7x18770 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:41:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3EA41228.1FE9BB6B@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:45:44 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345766 BioImages - Virtual Field-Guide (UK) | BioImages.org.uk http://www.bioimages.org.uk/ 3,187 Taxa 30,113 Images "BioImages (VFG-UK) is programmatically built from a 4th Dimension Database." Another database example with lots of plants, insects, and life form photos. The author made extensive use of a digitial camera to collect photo images of field specimans, as well as a flatbed scanner to compile "herbarium" samples of leaves and flowers and mushrooms in digital color. Shortcut to Taxonomy / Phyla / Database fields. http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/SHORTCUT.HTM Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Thu Apr 10 00:48:39 2003 X-UIDL: 347345292 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A520E310284; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:29:36 -0400 Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9FFC1740BF for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2721720045; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1D520036 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3A3TSx20703; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:29:28 -0600 Message-ID: <3E94E5FC.2763D4D5@ncat.org> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:33:17 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] Appropriate architecture in India: IndianOrganic.com + Anangpur.com X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345292 Appropriate architecture in India is another theme I want to share. Here are two sites in India you will find interesting: 1. IndianOrganic.com | Rajasthan, India http://www.indianorganic.com/ This is Ajit and Royina Grewal's farm house in Alwar District of Rajasthan. I visited Ajit and Royina in October 2002 to talk about the organic and biodynamic farming project. A special feature of their home is the catenary form. See the web section on Domes. It has a picture gallery and explanation of this structure. The architect Suresh Rajan designed this house. It is based on local resources (bricks), straight-forward building methods, and is structurally sound and earthquake resistant. It has that adobe style cooling effect necessary in a harsh, hot, arid climate. The Grewal's home worked so well, that the government of Rajasthan is looking into building several hundred schools based on this structure. The catenary dome structure is composed of bricks, and is built with the aid of a curved form that stands on a tripod in the middle of the dome as you build. It swings around, so the placement of bricks is precise, the one above just leading over the edge of the one below... curving up into the beehive dome. There are three sizes of domes and three matching construction forms to aid in laying of bricks. The domes have either 6, 4, or 3 arches. The ground floor is laid out on a series of hexagons. Royina gave me a tour and explained all the geometric details, and I scribbled notes and took pictures on top of the roof, but it still hard to describe. The pictures of the web page are the best way to grasp what it looks like and feels like. I am very much hoping that Royina, an artist and author, will publish a book on this structure. It will be a best seller in permaculture and green architecture circles. Altogether, it is absolutely gorgeous and mesmerizing to walk through the house, room by room, finding little alcoves. Royina's artistic touch is evident in the marble floor designs and custom-made furniture to fit the curvilinear dwelling. It so happens that IndianOrganic is a premier example of permaculture in the tough, arid lands of Rajasthan. Ajit Grewal started the farm about 20 years ago. The region is located on the edge of the Thar desert and can be characterized as barren, arid lands with sand dunes, elephant grass, shrubs and native aromatic plants such as artemesia, pastoral grazing with sheep and goats, and irrigated agriculture. The farms and villages exist in a harsh environment with extreme heat and drought in the summer. When the Grewals first arrived, few trees existed, and the only birds present were crows and vultures. Now, 20 years later, the farm is a tree-covered oasis with tree crops and annual crops blended together, a forest farm where 85 species of birds visit and dwell amongst the trees and greenery. What happened is that Ajit decided to use his farm as a demonstration site for ecological restoration, wherein he proceeded to plant 10s of thousands of trees, establish an organic farm based on agroforestry and intercropping, employ innovative methods of irrigation, and utilize humus management practices such as BD compost and vermicompost. In addition to permaculture as a framework for ecological restoration through intensive intercropping, agroforestry and a systematic approach to establishment and maintenance of plants and trees, Ajit is teaching farmers how to make BD compost, Vermicompost, and related organic farming methods. 2. Anangpur Building Centre | Haryana, India http://www.anangpur.com humane architecture, affordable price appropriate and cost effective technologies Geodesics, Octageodules, Space frames, A Frames interlocking blocks Especially see: Building Systems that Economize - Anangpur Building Centre http://www.anangpur.com/f_build.html FOUNDATIONS Eccentric Arched Foundations ROOFS Funicular Shells | http://www.anangpur.com/build2.html Ferrocrete Purlins & Rafters WALLS Surface Engineering ( Ram Lochan Tiles ) Surface Engineered Blocks ( Swaran Singh Blocks) Interlocking Hollow Concrete Blocks Structural Systems That are Innovative http://www.anangpur.com/f_struc.html MODULAR STRUCTURES A- Frames Cube - on - Vertex COMPRESSIVE STRUCTURES Domes Octagedules Space Frames Silos TENSILE STRUCTURES Hyperbolic Paraboloid Also see: Habitat Technology Network - A Video Based Technology Demonstration on Alternative Methodologies of Building http://www.anangpur.com/f_video.html Sustainable Development - Anangpur Building Centre http://www.anangpur.com/f_sus_dev.html Here, see notes on Vastu Vidya, guidelines for human settlements and governance. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Thu Apr 10 00:48:39 2003 X-UIDL: 347345292 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A520E310284; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:29:36 -0400 Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9FFC1740BF for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2721720045; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1D520036 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3A3TSx20703; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:29:28 -0600 Message-ID: <3E94E5FC.2763D4D5@ncat.org> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:33:17 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] Appropriate architecture in India: IndianOrganic.com + Anangpur.com X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345292 Appropriate architecture in India is another theme I want to share. Here are two sites in India you will find interesting: 1. IndianOrganic.com | Rajasthan, India http://www.indianorganic.com/ This is Ajit and Royina Grewal's farm house in Alwar District of Rajasthan. I visited Ajit and Royina in October 2002 to talk about the organic and biodynamic farming project. A special feature of their home is the catenary form. See the web section on Domes. It has a picture gallery and explanation of this structure. The architect Suresh Rajan designed this house. It is based on local resources (bricks), straight-forward building methods, and is structurally sound and earthquake resistant. It has that adobe style cooling effect necessary in a harsh, hot, arid climate. The Grewal's home worked so well, that the government of Rajasthan is looking into building several hundred schools based on this structure. The catenary dome structure is composed of bricks, and is built with the aid of a curved form that stands on a tripod in the middle of the dome as you build. It swings around, so the placement of bricks is precise, the one above just leading over the edge of the one below... curving up into the beehive dome. There are three sizes of domes and three matching construction forms to aid in laying of bricks. The domes have either 6, 4, or 3 arches. The ground floor is laid out on a series of hexagons. Royina gave me a tour and explained all the geometric details, and I scribbled notes and took pictures on top of the roof, but it still hard to describe. The pictures of the web page are the best way to grasp what it looks like and feels like. I am very much hoping that Royina, an artist and author, will publish a book on this structure. It will be a best seller in permaculture and green architecture circles. Altogether, it is absolutely gorgeous and mesmerizing to walk through the house, room by room, finding little alcoves. Royina's artistic touch is evident in the marble floor designs and custom-made furniture to fit the curvilinear dwelling. It so happens that IndianOrganic is a premier example of permaculture in the tough, arid lands of Rajasthan. Ajit Grewal started the farm about 20 years ago. The region is located on the edge of the Thar desert and can be characterized as barren, arid lands with sand dunes, elephant grass, shrubs and native aromatic plants such as artemesia, pastoral grazing with sheep and goats, and irrigated agriculture. The farms and villages exist in a harsh environment with extreme heat and drought in the summer. When the Grewals first arrived, few trees existed, and the only birds present were crows and vultures. Now, 20 years later, the farm is a tree-covered oasis with tree crops and annual crops blended together, a forest farm where 85 species of birds visit and dwell amongst the trees and greenery. What happened is that Ajit decided to use his farm as a demonstration site for ecological restoration, wherein he proceeded to plant 10s of thousands of trees, establish an organic farm based on agroforestry and intercropping, employ innovative methods of irrigation, and utilize humus management practices such as BD compost and vermicompost. In addition to permaculture as a framework for ecological restoration through intensive intercropping, agroforestry and a systematic approach to establishment and maintenance of plants and trees, Ajit is teaching farmers how to make BD compost, Vermicompost, and related organic farming methods. 2. Anangpur Building Centre | Haryana, India http://www.anangpur.com humane architecture, affordable price appropriate and cost effective technologies Geodesics, Octageodules, Space frames, A Frames interlocking blocks Especially see: Building Systems that Economize - Anangpur Building Centre http://www.anangpur.com/f_build.html FOUNDATIONS Eccentric Arched Foundations ROOFS Funicular Shells | http://www.anangpur.com/build2.html Ferrocrete Purlins & Rafters WALLS Surface Engineering ( Ram Lochan Tiles ) Surface Engineered Blocks ( Swaran Singh Blocks) Interlocking Hollow Concrete Blocks Structural Systems That are Innovative http://www.anangpur.com/f_struc.html MODULAR STRUCTURES A- Frames Cube - on - Vertex COMPRESSIVE STRUCTURES Domes Octagedules Space Frames Silos TENSILE STRUCTURES Hyperbolic Paraboloid Also see: Habitat Technology Network - A Video Based Technology Demonstration on Alternative Methodologies of Building http://www.anangpur.com/f_video.html Sustainable Development - Anangpur Building Centre http://www.anangpur.com/f_sus_dev.html Here, see notes on Vastu Vidya, guidelines for human settlements and governance. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Wed Apr 09 23:13:41 2003 X-UIDL: 347345290 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A3F0C850262; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:16:16 -0400 Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C718173ED9 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37172005A; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DB120020 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3A2G6x07601; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:16:07 -0600 Message-ID: <3E94D4CA.3EA9502E@ncat.org> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:19:54 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [permaculture] Organic architecture + Earth forms: Antoni Gaudi + Chris Drury X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347345290 This is a follow-up to: Raised field and terraced agriculture, built landscapes, Amazon +Andean 28 March 2003 19:35 UTC http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2003/permaculture/msg00390.html and Waru waru raised beds | Nasca puquios aqueducts | Terraced amphitheaters 28 March 2003 17:23 UTC http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2003/permaculture/msg00383.html Those images of terraced amphitheaters are beautiful to observe and think about in terms of land forms, structures, and earth architecture.... as well as terraced agriculture and what goes into these creations and how they are used. To see the terraced amphitheaters, go to: Defending Against Frost, The American Way: Past & Present || A Photo Gallery By Kashyapa A. S. Yapa http://kyapa.tripod.com/agengineering/thermalcontrol/thermal.htm Which brings me to these next resources on form and structure. Permaculture UK Magazine No. 34 had pointers to the organic architecture of Antoni Gaudi and the land artist forms of Chris Drury. Here are some web-based resources to observe. Antoni Gaudi - Organic Architecture http://www.gaudiclub.com/ingles/i_partici/moscoso.asp Mad about Gaudi http://www.telebooks.com Antoni Gaudí - A Life in the Architecture http://members.lycos.nl/gaudiworks/eng_gaudi.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wave Chamber by Chris Drury http://www.chrisdrury.co.uk/4/4d.html Chris Drury - Land Artist Working with Nature http://www.chrisdrury.co.uk Chris Drury - Commissioned Work Outside and Works in Public Places http://www.chrisdrury.co.uk/commis.html Chris Drury on the Axis Database http://www.axisartists.org.uk/all/ref5386.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Also see: DeLeon White Gallery - Artists with Eco-Art http://www.eco-art.com/dynamic/artist_list.asp Public Nature - Land Art Earthworks http://www.publicnature.com/paintings/landworks.html greenmuseum.org | Featured Artists http://greenmuseum.org/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Regards, Steve Diver _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Sat Mar 22 01:27:57 2003 X-UIDL: 347344241 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from listserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A66816B10146; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:55:20 -0500 Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by listserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F166173F2C for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:55:43 -0500 (EST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-2791-1048290916-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2003 23:55:16 -0000 X-Sender: steved@ncatark.uark.edu X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_5); 21 Mar 2003 23:55:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 60232 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2003 23:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2003 23:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2003 23:55:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2003 23:55:14 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3E7376C6.E1F9327D@supersat2.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Steve Diver " X-Originating-IP: 130.184.56.238 X-Yahoo-Profile: steved3602002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:55:14 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Weed Control using Compost Tea Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347344241 Hi Merla - We've met on the BD-Now list and discussed weed control. As you know, I'm into what works. Compost tea is not even on the list of practices I'd suggest for weed control. It will likely just make your weeds grow real nice, if you apply to existing vegetation. On the other hand, there is evidence that humified compost will control weeds. I am referring to agricultural fields that are plowed. SANET discussed this a couple of years ago; how chicken shit encourages weeds to pop-up, probably due to raw humic substances which mimic a disturbed soil site and provide feedback to Nature to get her warriours out there and cover the bare Earth. Humified compost, in contast, tells the weed warriors to chill out and lay low. It mimics a mature soil ecosystem. Everything is cool over here, no weeds seeds are needed we are mature and stable. The Luebkes in Austria conducted on-farm European field trials that explain this. They laid out field strips of compost at 3,4,5,6,7,8,10 weeks into the composting process, then observed weeds growing on the plots. After the 5th and 6th weeks, or thereabouts, a weed populations dramatically declined and then as the compost matured even further there were very few weeds at all. This is not about weed seeds, it is about a communication feedback loop with humus and weeds. As organic matter undergoes humification in the later weeks, the signals lean towards mature soils vs disturbed soils. I support alternatives to herbicides and I have spent years looking into non-chemical weed control methods. So I support your efforts to reduce herbides in the environment. But I would also suggest you get practical and get tough on those weeds. Don't be nice to them and give them a drink of soluble nutrients via compost teas. Kick their ass with FLAME and STEAM. I assume we are talking roadside weeds. GOATS are the biological control I see large overgrown areas begging for. Pen them on a spot and keep them there. I don't like Yahoo!Groups so I don't keep up with Compost Tea List on a regular basis. When I saw your post I had to chime in. Weed control with humified compost falls into the category of Deep Humus. It is an amazing tale which deserves to be told over and over again. Find the SANET archives to understand the whole picture. Again, I am talking agricultural fields that are tilled and planted into crops, not roadside vegetation. Big difference! Compost teas, of course, support a humified soil ecosystem when used in conjuction with humified composts. Well, you can do some field trials and see what happens but until then I don't place much practical hope on weed control just by application of compost teas alone, especially in comparison to kick-ass methods of non-chemical control. VINEGAR is going to be a potent weed control solution, in comparison to your soluble organic fertilizer from compost tea. Steve Diver ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Mon Jan 20 15:36:22 2003 X-UIDL: 322735720 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9AC1E90170; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:18:52 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9A110F501EE; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:18:41 -0500 Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0000733C@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:18:36 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 9809 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:18:36 -0500 Received: from mail.ncat.org by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0000733B@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:18:35 -0500 Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h0KKIKp01707 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:18:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3E2C5B85.AC0C0CE3@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:26:45 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: New: The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.235] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322735720 Status: U Here is a resource that is now available. The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD Featuring slides and video from Dr. Elaine Ingham. $44.95 *Multi-media presentation on Soil Foodweb *Slide collection in medium resolution jpg images *Slide legend *Movie clips *Interactive self-learning "slide presentation" for PC users Elaine Ingham worked with Sam Ettaro with Unisun communications for a couple of years, and one of the products that resulted was this multi-media CD on the soil foodweb. This is the CD that features the slides from a study that demonstrated botrytis disease suppression on grape leaves when compost teas had 100% and 70% leaf surface, at the same time botrytis was applied at 70% leaf coverage. The grape leaves remained healthy. In contrast, when compost teas covered 50% and 10% of the leaf surface, botrytis infection was obvious. Sam is now in Pennsylvania with a multi-media business called Harmony Central. Harmony Central 806 Daisy St. Clearfield, PA 16830 814-768-9489 Local 866-470-0740 Toll-Free 814-768-7202 Fax admin@unisun.org http://www.harmonycentral.org In addition, Harmony Central is the distributor for Elaine Ingham's audio CD's. Audio CD's in Soil Foodweb Series Volume 1: An Introduction to the Soil Foodweb - 2 CD Set - $9.00 Volume 2: A Plant Production Overview - 2 CD Set - $9.00 Volume 3: Turf Systems - 2 CD Set (EcoPak) - $7.00 Volume 4: The Compost Foodweb - 2 CD Set - $13.95 As a bonus, the The Soil Foodweb Multi-Media CD at $44.95 is now being shipped with Volume 2 in the Audio CD series, "Plant Production Overview." This is a resource pointer, add this item to your Soil Foodweb + Humus Management Toolbox. Regards, Steve Diver . From - Sun Jan 19 17:16:54 2003 X-UIDL: 322735678 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A0994AF8004A; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:03:05 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A08741B8003C; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:02:47 -0500 Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00007142@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 19 Jan 2003 17:02:49 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 9233 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:02:49 -0500 Received: from mail.ncat.org by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00007141@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 19 Jan 2003 16:52:48 -0500 Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h0JLqZp19113 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:52:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3E2B2019.61978B72@ncat.org> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:00:57 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Indigenous Microorganisms + Korean Natural Farming Association To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.235] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322735678 Status: U [Previously... Re: [SANET-MG] Beneficial Soil Microbia] The question is how to get information on IM or IMO's, Indigenous Microorganisms. Well, there is a seminar on Indigenous Microorganisms at the Ecological Farming Conference in California, Jan. 22-25. Gil Carandang, a farmer from the Phillipines, will demonstrate some of the special cultures. http://www.eco-farm.org/efc/efc_main.html Concepts and practices on Indigenous Microorganisms, IM or IMO, originate with Han Kyu Cho and the Korean Natural Farming Association, or KNFA, going back 35 to 40 years. Yet, this knowledge has only come into English language in the last few years. There is one book in English, yet it is not available for-sale from any distributor that I can determine. Korean Natural Farming: Indigenous Microorganisms and Vital Power of Crop/Livestock Han Kyu Cho and Atsushi Koyama Korean Natural Farming Association, 1997. 172 p. Here is an address for KNFA: Korean Natural Farming Association (KNFA) 209-2 Woongok-ri, Chungan-myun Kyisan Kun, Chung cheong buk do Republic of Korea Tel: (82-43)832-8777 Fax: (82-43)832-8783 Listed in: Asian Productivity Organization // Green Productivity and Natural Farming http://www.apo-tokyo.org KNFA develops IMO's in association with specific substrates to create special cultures. The IMO's are diluted to certain concentrations and sprayed on plants, composts, and soils. fermented fruit juices -FFJ fermented plant juices FPJ fish amino acid - FAA brown rice vinegar - BRV Oriental herbal nutrients - OHN lactic acid bacteria serum - LAS Often, these special cultures are mixed together to make a complete recipe for plant pest control, to provide soluble nutrients, to provide bioactive substances, to inoculate the leaf surface with beneficial microorganisms. KNFA farming practices pay special attention to soil management, cover crops, and organic mulches. IMO's are directed at critical stages of the plant growth, to enhance and facilitate physiology and microbiology. Very little on IMO's exists on the web, as well. Here is one article to gain insight: Indigenous Micro-organisms Put to Work The Seed Saver's Network http://www.genevar.com.au/seedsavers/resources/10.html Here is a web document from a Korean company, a .doc download, that points to commercial equipment for the production of fermented biofertilizers with IMO's in the KNFA tradition. It contains useful background information on KNFA, IMO's, microbial processes, and microbial benefits. It contains photos in an educational series that show the production steps and processes. Bio Plant of Indigenous Microorganism Developed by... Natural Farming Institute Manufactured by... H-Tec Co., Ltd http://www.htech-fa.co.kr/english/env/images/infoeng.doc Interestingly, EM in Japan does something very similar. The equipment featured here may be the same. Over 1 million Japanese households collect food scraps in the EM bokashi buckets. Trucks come by every once in a while to pick up the "pickled" bokashi-treated food waste. The bokashi food-waste material is taken to farms and composted. And, the bokashi food-waste material is taken to these biofertilizer plants which run the material through bioprocessing equipment that integrates (as best I can surmise): bokashi food-waste + rice bran biomass + molasses + EM microbes + heat treatment + fermentation process that results in a ready-to-use, pelletized organic fertilizer for use on commerical on organic farms. Web research on Korean-language websites -- to locate IMO material on the web -- included digging through Korean characters to find English-language resources. That's how I found the following chapter from Korea Organic Farming Association, which offers complimentary notes on organic farming, composting, fermentation, beneficial microorganisms, and special-culture microbial-inoculants. The Technics and Management of Organic Farming Korea Organic Farming Association http://www.organic.or.kr/whatis/what6.php Similarly, web research found these items at Research Institute of Organic Agriculture, Dan Kook University, Republic of Korea. Research Institute of Organic Agriculture Dan Kook University, Republic of Korea http://www.anseo.dankook.ac.kr/~ecnet/ Chemical Characteristics of Soil and NO3- Accumulation of Vegetable by Conventional and Organic farming in Korea College of Agriculture, Dan Kook University, Republic of Korea http://www.anseo.dankook.ac.kr/%7Eecnet/serve/base9.html Development, Current Issues and Prospects of Organic Agriculture Movement in Korea College of Agriculture, Dan Kook University, Republic of Korea http://www.anseo.dankook.ac.kr/%7Eecnet/serve/base7.html If you look at EM practices, you can see that Kyusei Nature Farming + EM practices from Japan does something very similar to KNFA + IM from Korea -- interestingly -- and that is get beneficial microbes in touch with organic substrates and let microbiology work over the organic amendments and raw materials to transform the biomass into a fermented biofertilizer or compost or special culture, or, remediate something like raw manure sitting in a pile to prevent putrefaction. And, to label these special cultures so it creates a systematic approach to treatment of organic wastes and biomass, preparation methods and microbial integration, and biofertilizer + microbial inoculation usage methods, all at the same time. EM recipes at Lindros, South Africa http://www.lindros.co.za/effective_microorganisms.htm Keep in mind, as I mentioned earlier on SANET, the special cultures in biodynamics -- Horn Manure, CPP, Liquid Manures and Herbal Teas -- does pretty much the same thing; get beneficial microbes in touch with an organic substrate and let microbes grow and flourish and transform and extract. Thus, by using local herbs, garden plants, and fruits you can make BD-Liquid Manure, EM-Fermented Plant Extracts, or IM-FFJ, IM-FPJ, and IM-OHN. You can see that a pattern emerges. Farmers use local biomass sources in association with local beneficial microorganisms or brought-in microbial inoculants -- sometimes with microbial food sources and catalysts such as molasses or raw sugar -- to allow Nature to work over the materials and develop biofertilzers, disease and pest suppressive foliar brews, and soil and compost inoculants. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Related Resources: The Food & Fertilizer Technology Center, an Information Center for Farmers in the Asia Pacific Region, located in Tawain, has an excellent library with two complimentary documents on microbial fertilizers and inoculants.... including recipe for bokashi (fermented organic matter). http://www.agnet.org/library/ Use of Microbial Inoculants and Organic Fertilizers in Agricultural Production J.F. Parr, S.B. Hornick, and D.D. Kaufman ABSTRACT: http://www.agnet.org/library/abstract/eb394.html HTML: http://www.agnet.org/library/article/eb394.html PDF | 15-pages: http://www.agnet.org/library/data/eb/eb394/eb394.pdf Microbial Fertilizers in Japan Michinori Nishio ABSTRACT: http://www.agnet.org/library/abstract/eb430.html HTML: http://www.agnet.org/library/article/eb430.html PDF | 12-pages: http://www.agnet.org/library/data/eb/eb430/eb430.pdf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Since IM and EM deal with fermentation, it is helpful to look at fermentation technology and microbiology; organisms; microbial growth factors; yeast; bacteria. Here's a document from FAO. Fermented Fruits and Vegetables: A Global Perspective FAO Agricultural Services Bulletin No. 134 http://www.fao.org/docrep/x0560e/x0560e00.htm LIST OF TABLES Table 2.1 Fermented foods from around the world Table 2.2 Microorganisms commonly found in fermentig fruit and vegetables Table 2.3 Water activity for microbial reactions Table 2.4 Classification of bacteria according to temperature requirements Table 5.1 Major lactic acid bacteria in fermented plant products ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Biotechnology, Second, Completely Revised Edition, Volume 9 Enzymes, Biomass, Food and Feed Biotechnology 2nd Edition Reed, Gerald / Nagodawithana, T. W. (eds.). 1995. 804 p. ISBN 3-527-28319-6 -Wiley-VCH, Weinheim http://www.wiley-vch.de/publish/en/books/ Indigenous Fermented Foods Larry R. Beuchat http://www.wiley-vch.de/books/biotech/pdf/v09indig.pdf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The History of Kimchi http://www.korea.net/koreanculture/kimchi/kimchi_2.html The Scientific Nature and Nutritional Aspects of Kimchi http://www.korea.net/koreanculture/kimchi/kimchi_4.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Medina, the microbial inoculant / soil activator developed by James Martin in Texas, has an interesting history. Here is a web item that describes this process, and how one NGO is seeking further information on development of special cultures based on local biomass + local microbes. Need for guidance in researching microbe catalyst for enhanced crop yields http://www.treesforlife.org/soilcond/Default.htm Trees for Life ||| Soil Regeneration through microbe catalyst "In the 1950s, Mr. James Martin [developer of Medina Soil Activator] discovered that a fermented mixture of sea water, cow dung and yeast stimulates microbes that exist in nature to multiply at about one thousand times the normal rate." "Martin believed that plankton in sea water, when fermented with dung from lactating cows and yeast, may produce enzymes that helped create the explosion of life on Earth some 3,000 million years ago, when the Earth was surrounded by ammonia, methane and water." Medina Agriculture Products Co. http://www.medinaag.com/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If you follow Compost Teas and EM and IM and BD, as well as Organic Farming in general, you will notice that many of the soil and foliar practices effect the rhizosphere and the phyllosphere, those rich zones of biological activity on the root and leaf surfaces. A lot is known about rhizospheric organisms and the rhizosphere. Yet, here is a paper on phyllospheric organisms, and how these endophytic organisms can help promote plant growth and achieve biological control of diseases AND insects on the leaf surface. Endophytic Microorganisms: A Review on Insect Control and Recent Advances on Tropical Plants Electronic Journal of Biotechnology Vol.3 No.1, Issue of April 15, 2000 http://www.ejb.org/content/vol3/issue1/full/4/index.html Well, I had promised several people to post resources on IM + KNFA, so here they are. Best regards, Steve Diver ( New email address.... steved@ncat.org ) For the earlier SANET discussion on EM + IM, see: Re: Beneficial Soil Microbia Fri, 13 Dec 2002 http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0212&L=sanet-mg&O=A&P=10020 RiverValley wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Do you know where we can do for more info on IM. > > thanks, > daniel . From - Sat Dec 14 10:57:55 2002 X-UIDL: 322734101 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF6E120500C4; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:30:06 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF5DCCD01B0; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:29:49 -0500 Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000023CF@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:30:10 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 4157 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:30:10 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000023CE@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:30:09 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gBDMa6v10405 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:36:07 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3DF5DC62.4FBF0063@earthlink.net> <13f301c2a2ec$e792bbd0$b7cb3bcb@dmflkwfouhswsa> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DFA60A6.3ACE39D3@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:35:18 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Beneficial Soil Microbia To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.235] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322734101 Status: U Fermentative anaerobic is a beneficial microbial pathway. See Higa and Parr's paper for a microbial explanation: Beneficial and Effective Microorganisms for a Sustainable Agriculture and Environment. 1994. By Higa,Teruo, and James F. Parr. International Nature Farming Research Center, Atami, Japan. 16 p. http://www.agriton.nl/higa.html "Fermentation is an anaerobic process by which facultative microorganisms (e.g., yeasts) transform complex organic molecules (e.g., carbohydrates) into simple organic compounds that often can be absorbed directly by plants. Fermentation yields a relatively small amount of energy compared with aerobic decomposition of the same substrate by the same group of microorganisms. Aerobic decomposition results in complete oxidation of a substrate and the release of large amounts of energy, gas, and heat with carbon dioxide and water as the end products. Putrefaction is the process by which facultative heterotrophic microorganisms decompose proteins anaerobically, yielding malodorous incompletely oxidized, metabolites (e.g., ammonia, mercaptans and indole) that are often toxic to plants and animals." Etc. It may be that aerobic and fermentative anaerobic processes are not exclusive; rather, they happen simultaneously, alternating back and forth. Rather, one is more dominant under the management system praticed by the farmer. One of the common indicators of good soil health with EM (Effective Microorganisms), as well as IM (Indigenous Microorganisms), is the rod test. It is a common sight in Japanese and Korean natural farming systems to push a rod into the soil to observe changes in soil structure, following adoption of the soil management system. Scientists, using digitial meters, call that a penetrometer test. Farmers just push a rod into the soil. After you work with EM or IM a few years, loaded with lactobacillus, you can see observe a difference in soil structure, with reduced compaction and enhanced friability. Mulch, organic matter, low-till management, microbial inoculation.... all these are part of the organic management approach that results in soil improvements like this. Seemingly, there is conflict between the composters heralding aerobic compost and the EM people heralding fermentative anaerobic composting. Yet, I'm not sure there really is conflict. They both work. They both focus on beneficial microorganisms and beneficial microbial pathways. Perhaps one is just more dominant at a given point in time, and also, the composters understand what they are doing within the approach they take. Besides, conflict is a mental construct. Nature has multitudes of pathways. If we simply provide the conditions, the terrrain -- by practicing humus management, for example -- then the microbes flourish and do their work. Yet, aerobic composting does have a goal and that is well humified compost. Fermentative anaerobic composting results in fermented biomass. Both are the result of digested organic matter, they are stable, they retain nutrients etc. But they are not exactly alike, and that is normal. Biodynamic + EM research in India says that EM compost provides plant-available food for the current growing season, while humified compost provides slow-release fertililzer as well as helps build long-term soil structure. If you have a high-end microscope setup with UV light and specialized lens, you can see the difference in humus crumb structure and related microbial architecture. The microscope setup I refer to is based on Siegfried Luebkes work in Austria. In the U.S., Bob Pike at Pike Agri-Lab Supplies has duplicated this microscope setup within a commercial lab setting. Here is an image of clay-humus crumb under the microscope. This is from an organic farm that has practiced humus management for many years. Farms that neglect humus management and replenishment of organic matter will have flatter, less developed architecture. http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/cmc-compost.html http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/humus-cauliflower-microscopy.gif Perhaps that is helpful. Steve Diver ATTRA David Menne wrote: > Following some recent postings and material/sites they refer to : > > (a) It would appear that for application to soil and crops, aerobic bug > production is the good and healthful way to go. > > However : > > (b) Dr. Teruo Higa's Effective Microbe [EM] Technology [University of The > Ryukyus, Okinawa, Japan; http://www.embiotech.org] very clearly prescribes > ANaerobic bug production. > > Any wise comments ? . From - Sat Nov 30 21:01:31 2002 X-UIDL: 322733555 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A90755600F6; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:42:31 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A912B682001C; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:42:42 -0500 Received: from srvtask (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id XT8TQY3T; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:42:34 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 4051 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:43:06 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:43:05 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gB11n4v09552 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:49:05 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1b4201c297fb$4702da70$44a83bcb@dmflkwfouhswsa> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DE96A30.232EDEE0@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:47:28 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Paramagnetic Rock Dusts To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322733555 Status: U Here is another viewpoint on paramagnetic rock dusts. Rock Dusts in Agriculture: Insights on Remineralization and Paramagnetism http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/rock-dust.html It has pointers to the emerging concepts and practices associated with ORMUS elements, which also need to be examined. Read Barry Carter's articles and papers for a in-depth explanation of the energetics behind ORMUS. Separately, I wrote to David Menne to get clarification on his pot trials. I'm pretty sure we'd both agree on the value of rock dusts to provide bioavailable minerals and trace elements, and the essential activity of microbes to result in solubilization and mineralization through organic acids, enzymes, and chelation. To me, this is by far the most important contribution of rock dusts. It is why organic farmers add rock phosphates to compost piles to increase bioavailable P. It is why rock dusts are added to compost teas and foliar blends and bioponic solutions. Put the minerals and biologicals and organics in there together and let the frothy brew of life work it over and re-arrange it and come up with something new... a chelated compound, a biotic-mineral complex, and so on. On the other hand, I have attended workshops by Dr. Phil Callahan on several occassions and in my view and those of many others in eco-farming his work on paramagnetism is *significant* and worthwhile. In the instance where plants grew better with Rock Dust+Lower-PM than Rock Dust+High-PM, it probably means that the Rock Dust+Lower-PM was of better quality in terms of balanced minerals, trace elements, and bioavailability. It made the plants grow better. The agronomic effects of bioavailable minerals and a trace element mix had a greater effect than a weak electromagnetic field. So use that brand. Good agronomic husbandry is the common sense approach, even when you are working in subtle energy agriculture. Steve Diver . From - Mon Nov 25 23:15:18 2002 X-UIDL: 322733277 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A2685F701EA; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:46:19 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A26D51F00A0; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:46:21 -0500 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id XT8TM8YY; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:46:11 -0500 Received: FROM srvtask BY nt-web ; Mon Nov 25 20:47:02 2002 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 1142 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:46:33 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:46:33 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gAQ1qWv00177 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:52:33 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <192.112ddae0.2b123373@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ncatark.uark.edu id gAQ1qWv00177 Message-ID: <3DE2D36B.DADE65F5@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:50:35 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Purity Of Organic Foods/Compost To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322733277 Status: U Municipal yard waste consists of grass clippings, leaves, and shredded tree timmings. Of these, grass clippings are the only biomass source with pesticide contamination levels of any concern, for all practical purposes. Tree leaves are rarely sprayed with pesticides. A few tree species, for example sycamore, will sometimes receive a fungicide spray to control anthracnose, but that is way back in early spring. Shredded branch timmings actually make a valueable compost feedstock. Some of the woodier and bulker wood chips provide porosity and air flow, while the shredded feedstock derived from young green branches helps balance the C:N ratio; and the lignins from these young branches may play a role in humification. Leaf recycling by communities, gardeners, and small farmers is a great way to generate biomass for use as a mulch and to make compost. Leaves are a local biomass source, they are free, and they are available in large volumes. Leaves are free spirited and will blow away, though, so that is why Master Composters talk rounding them up and keeping them pinned down in a leaf corral. If you have a 3' x 3' pile of leaves, and one 50-lb bag of alfalfa pellets (rabbit feed), then you have the perfect C:N ratio for a thermophyllic compost pile; just sprinkle rabbit pellets and water as you build the pile of leaves, then turn after one week to re-mix and re-moisten the pile. Repeat the turning process a few times. Later, after temperatures are moderate, you can add worms and let them do their thing, which adds another biological dimension. When it comes to organic farms and municipal yardwaste, in relation to concerns over pesticide contaimination of grass clippings, an easy solution is to just collect leaves and branch trimmings in the fall and completely avoid grass clippings. Yet when it comes down to mixed yardwastes with grass clippings and potential herbicide residues, there is good reason to expect the composting process itself to pack a powerful punch full of enzymes and microbial bioremediation processes. Phil Fredericks at EarthCare Technologies, Inc. is the compost manager who has a lot to say about the compost windrow functioning as a bioremediation factory. He uses specialized microbial inoculants to enhance degradation of hydrocarbons and waste products handled at his compost facility. The basis of this microbial technology goes back to oilfeed research in Oklahoma in the 1960s. http://www.ecticompost.com http://www.ecticompost.com/ec_process.html Staff at Alberta Agriculture, Food and Rural Development (AAFRD) developed a database of references on composting and put this online as: On-Farm Composting - A Review of the Literature AAFRD http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/sustain/compost/bibliography.html Included is this topic: On-Farm Composting: Bioremediation / Soil Remediation AAFRD http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/sustain/compost/bioremediation.html For a recent literature review on the occurrence, degradation, and fate of pesticides in composts, see this two-part series in Compost Science and Utilization. Occurrence, Degradation, and Fate of Pesticides During Composting || Part I: Composting, Pesticides, and Pesticide Degradation (Literature Review) Fatih B=FCy=FCks=F6nmez, Robert Rynk, Thomas F. Hess and Edward Bechinski Compost Science and Utilization (1999) | Autumn | Vol. 7, No.4 | pages 66-82. Occurence, Degradation, and Fate of Pesticides During Composting || Part II: Occurence and Fate of Pesticides in Compost and Composting Systems (Literature Review) Fatih B=FCy=FCks=F6nmez, Robert Rynk, Thomas F. Hess and Edward Bechinski Compost Science and Utilization (2000) | Winter | Vol. 8, No. 1 | pages 61- 81. See: Compost Science and Utilization http://www.jgpress.com/compost.htm Regards, Steve Diver . From - Wed Nov 13 13:21:47 2002 X-UIDL: 322732636 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6317B60110; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:13:05 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A623C6CF0098; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:12:51 -0500 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id WQBJQA65; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:11:35 -0500 Received: FROM srvtask BY nt-web ; Wed Nov 13 13:12:08 2002 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 9124 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:11:50 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:11:50 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gADIHaW13713 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:17:42 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DD2968D.18197F86@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:14:38 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Manual on Raised Beds, a form of permaculture for the dry and wet tropics To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322732636 Status: U Recently, under the thread "Regulation of compost teas," I posted resources on organic farming methods (biodynamics, organics, composts, EM, fermented plant extracts) at Auroville in India. Auroville is a city-in-the-making in southern India based on the teachings of Sri Aurobindo and The Mother. Auroville has several farms and organic farming and gardening projects. Here is a 4-page PDF leaflet on raised beds from Auroville. A Manual for Raised Beds, A Form of Permaculture for the Dry and Wet Tropics Go to HTML Source ..... Ecological Agriculture at Auroville http://www.auroville.org/environment/agri.htm Download the zipped PDF file at ..... A Manual for Raised Beds, A Form of Permaculture for the Dry and Wet Tropics http://www.auroville.org/environment/farms_news/Raised%20Beds.zip The manual is based on the work of a dutch farmer, Paul Teuben, who stayed at Auroville for two years. Previously, vegetable production in the region was not considered feasible. The costs of production were high and market prices were low. India has a hot climate with wet and dry seasons and the farm and soil undergoes hardship under these conditions. But after people starting using the raised bed technique -- by following a particular farming system approach -- they realized there are many benefits of this technique, including: permanent raised beds soil covered with organic mulches and cover crops nutrients from liquid manures, green manures, foliage of legumes water management soil improvement use of local resources simple method to teach seedling production and transplanting techniques aesthetic and enjoyable gardens beneficial insect and butterfly habitat high yield food production economic returns This little leaflet is a nice summary of the methods and benefits of raised beds, which you can add it to your sustainable farming toolbox. It also adds to the growing body of information on permanent beds and biointensive agriculture. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The work of John Jeavons and Ecology Action comes to mind: Ecology Action Publications http://www.growbiointensive.org/ "Grow Biointensive" books and research booklets http://www.bountifulgardens.org/growbiointensive-books.html Dig It! John Jeavons Double-Digging Video John Jeavons, 1997, 30 min http://www.bountifulgardens.org/gb-videos.html What is the GROW BIOINTENSIVE Food-Raising Method? http://www.growbiointensive.org/biointensive/GROW-BIOINTENSIVE.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So does Roland Bunch and his Five Principles of Soil Management for the Humid Tropics. 1. Maximize organic matter 2. Keep the soil covered 3. Use zero tillage 4. Maximize biodiversity 5. Feed the crops through the mulch Nutrient Quantity or Nutrient Access?: A New Understanding of How to Maintain Soil Fertility in the Tropics By Roland Bunch, October 2001 HTML Gateway through MOIST: http://ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/mba_project/moist/RolandB.html Bunch's Paper in PDF: http://ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/mba_project/moist/Roland.pdf A 19-page PDF download NECOFA -- Network for Ecofarming in Africa -- provides Roland Bunch's paper in in HTML: http://www.necofa.org/activities/publications/bunch_primav.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So does Mark Cain's market farming approach in the Ozarks, inspired by Masanobu Fukuoka and Emilia Hazelip: No-Till, Mulch-Based Market Gardening http://www.seedballs.com/mcain.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So does Emilia Hazelip's market farming approach in southern France -- known as Synergistic Gardening -- inspired by Masonobu Fukuoka and Permaculture: The Synergistic Garden By Emilia Hazelip http://www.seedballs.com/hazelip.html The Four Principles Of Synergistic Agriculture 1. Keep the soil undisturbed and uncompacted. 2. Use the soil's self-fertility as fertilizer. 3. Integrate the litter zone with the agricultural soil profile. 4. Establish a partnership with beneficials to protect crops. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So does Ken Hargesheimer in Texas, with his teaching approach to permanent raised beds, based on his worldwide travels: http://www.minifarms.com/ Raised Bed Agriculture | Ken Hargesheimer http://www.minifarms.com/rba.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Regards, Steve Diver . From - Wed Nov 06 21:53:14 2002 X-UIDL: 322732279 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A23C42FB0118; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:38:52 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A2362DF007A; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:38:46 -0500 Received: from srvtask (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id WKLFYLSQ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:39:09 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 4048 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:39:02 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:39:01 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gA72j5X29059 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:45:05 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ncatark.uark.edu id gA72j5X29059 Message-ID: <3DC9D2F0.2711DB33@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:41:53 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Regulation of compost teas To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322732279 Status: U In response to a few questions posed by Douglas Hinds: DH: "I'm hoping one or more of you can direct me to a reliable source for detailed studies on Compost Tea and / or EM Tea that specify:" " the organisms contained in them, the substances produced by them and the effects of those substance on a number of different plant species." SD: Allow me to point to a few items I've already compiled. They also list primary information sources, so you can find additional resources by starting here. Notes on Compost Teas ATTRA http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/compost-tea-notes.pdf Especially see the "Minimum Standards for Compost" and "Minimum Standards for Compost Teas," on pages 5-6, drawn from Dr. Elaine Ingham's experience at Soil Foodweb, Inc. In the resources section, especially see: "Compost Tea Brewing Manual" published by Elaine Ingham Dr. Ingham=92s Monthly E-Zine Organic Teas from Composts and Manures by Richard Merrill, OFRF Grant Report 97=9640. [This download contains 88 literature references in the bibliography, =93Selected References for Organic Tea Extract Studies=94] Compost Tea for Organic Farming and Gardening by William Quarles. The IPM Practitioner. Vol. 23, No. 9 (September). p. 1=968 Papers by Will Brinton and Andreas Trankner Next, Nature Farming and Effective Microorganisms ATTRA http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/Nature-Farm-EM.html EM contains around 80-120 microorganisms. The main species of microorganisms in EM include: [1] Lactic acid bacteria: Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactobacillus casei, Streptococcus lactis; [2] Photosynthetic bacteria: Rhodopseudomonas palustrus, Rhodobacter spaeroides; [3] Yeasts: Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Candida utilis; [4] Actinomycetes: Streptomyces albus, Streptomyces griseus; and [5] Fermenting Fungi: Aspergillus oryzae, Mucor hiemalis. For literature, especially see the two volumes of Dr. Higa's book, "An Earth Saving Revolution"; the conference proceedings of International Kyusei Nature Farming (there are now six volumes); and the following book which is available through Food Products Press, the publisher "Journal of Sustainable Agriculture" and "Journal of Crop Production," among others. "Nature Farming and Microbial Applications," a Food Products Press book edited by Hui-lian Xu, James F. Parr, and Hiroshi Umemura, was co-published simultaneously published as Journal of Crop Production, Volume 3, No. 1 (#5), 2000. It contains 30 scientific papers on EM, addressing topics such as: Nature Farming history, principles, and perspectives; production and application of organic materials as fertilizers in China, EM-prepared organic fertilizers in the control of plant pathogenic diseases and insect pests; EM-prepared organic fertilizers and their influence on soil organic matter, soil moisture, and other soil quality parameters; Nature Farming practices for apple production in Japan; EM-prepared organic fertilizers in organic sweet corn production; EM in the treatment of malodorous poultry manure; and influence of EM on mycorrhizae, earthworms, rhizobia, and other aspects of soil biology. Excerpts / table of contents to Higa's books: An Earth Saving Revolution, Vol. I http://www.emro.jp/english/library/books/esr/esr.html An Earth Saving Revolution, Vol. II http://www.emro.jp/english/library/books/esr2/esr2.html The web resources section in my working paper points to a number of primary information sources. Of special interest is the following paper. Beneficial and Effective Microorganisms for a Sustainable Agriculture and Environment. 1994. By Higa,Teruo, and James F. Parr. International Nature Farming Research Center, Atami, Japan. 16 p. http://www.agriton.nl/higa.html This paper includes the microbial pathway sketched out by Dr. Higa, "Flow Chart of Organic Matter Decomposition by Soil Microorganisms and the Development of Soils That May be Disease-Inducing, Zymogenic, or Synthetic." In North America, Sustainable Community Development in Missouri sponsors the EMtrading.com website which has research reports of special interest. http://www.emtrading.com/ Regarding EM as a liquid spray for foliar inoculation. EM itself can be used as a foliar spray to enhance foliar nutrition and to enhance pest control. EM is also used as a microbial adjunct to plant-based extracts. [In both instances, I refer to "extended EM" which is made by mixing EM stock solution with molasses and water.] In the organic and biodynamic literature plant-based extracts are commonly referred to as "herbal teas" or "liquid manures." Fresh plant material is harvested, chopped, and soaked in a barrel of water for 3-10 days. A simple extract may be a single ingredient herbal tea, for example stinging nettle extract. On the other hand, farmers in India, for example, are developing complete recipes for liquid manures that include a mixture of plants (stinging nettle, neem), lactating cow urine, and other ingredients. When EM is added to the solution it facilitates the extraction of nutrients and bioactive substances from the plant leaf material through a fermentation process. [This is typical for EM as well as any microbial inoculant. Microbes work on a substrate; i.e., organic wastes, organic amendments, raw organic matter]. The resulting EM extract is known as a fermented plant extract, or EM-FPE. To gain a practical understanding of these approaches, see: EM Application Manual for APNAM Countries ------------- three online sources -------------- http://www.agriton.nl/apnanman.html http://www.emfsafe.com/em/app/ http://www.plantsfood.com/bm.htm Margarita Correa, working at Auroville near Pondicherry in southern India, published a notable paper that describes the use of EM, biodynamic preparations, and related organic farming practices. Of special interest are her notes on EM-FPE for pest management. The Impact of Effective Microorganisms (EM) in Various Organic Farming Systems http://www.auroville.org/environment/EM_impact.pdf 13-page PDF Margarita Correa also published a paper describing EM-FPE. Go to HTML Source: AuroAnnam - research & development farm at Auroville http://www.auroville.org/research/auroannam_research_farm.htm Download EM presentation as a zip file and open...... Experiences with Effective Microorganisms in disease and pest control in farms and gardens in India C. Margarita and L. Dengel ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Selected excerpts from C. Margarita and L. Dengel: EM was used to ferment locally growing plant material that was known for its medicinal value and for its pest repelling or pest controlling properties, such as neem and Calotropis gigantea. All plant material was chopped, immersed with the help of a stone weight in EM solution undergoing extension, and let ferment for about five days under anaerobic conditions. For the production of approximately 20 liters of FPE, the following ingredients were used: 15 liters of water 3 kg of neem leaves (and flowers) 250 g of each plant material indicated as per Table 2 450 ml of EM stock solution 450 g of cane jaggery (which could be replaced by molasses) Afterwards it was filtered and stored away for use, for at least 90 days. EM-FPE from fruits, weeds and plants with known pest repellent properties have been observed to enhance the efficacy of pest control. It seems that EM is capable of extracting the active ingredients from plants and making them available as pest control agents. 1. Turmeric (Curcuma longa) 2. Ginger (Zingiber officinale) 3. Tobacco (Nicotiana tabacum) 4. Papaya (Carica papaya) 5. Custard Apple (Annona squamosa) 6. Vitex (Vitex negundo) 7. Neem (Azadirachta indica) 8. Calotropis (Calotropis gigantean) 9. Onion (Allium cepa) 10. Garlic (Allium sativum) 11. Aloe (Aloe barbedensis) 12. Tulasi (Ocimum sp.) 13. Pongam (Pongamia pinnata) 14. Euphorbia (Euphorbia tirucalli) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Also see: EM-Fermented Plant Extract and EM5 for Controlling Pickleworm (Diaphania nitidalis) in Organic Cucumbers http://www.emtrading.com/em/htmlpapers/emcucumbers.html In addition to traditional EM-FPE, a new EM practice is to add EM ceramics powder to the solution. For example, see: EM-X Ceramic Powder (EM-XCP) http://www.emtrading.com/em/emreport2001/emscp.html In general, adding a clay powder or rock dust component to a foliar brew provides the ingredients for organo-mineral and biotic-mineral interactions and complexes to occur. In some instances micronutrients serve as biocatalysts for microorganisms, and in other instances organic acids from microbial activity enhance mineral availability through solubilization and mineralization. Next, What are the bioactive compounds produced by microorganisms during compost tea brewing, or from compost watery extracts, that function as biostimulants. Microbial metabolites and bioactive substances extracted from composts that come to mind include enzymes, amino acids, nucleic acids, vitamins, and hormones. Yet, while I mention these in general I can't think of any papers that provide specific data on this point. Krasilnikov's "Soil Microorganisms and Higher Plants," located online at Soil and Health Library, comes to mind as a background source on this topic. http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010112Krasil/010112krasil.toc.ht= ml Next, How does vermi-compost compare to compost tea or EM tea, and "detailed studies available regarding the worm-gut bacteria / microorganisms that process the vermicompost?" Compost teas and worm teas have greater fungal components than EM, for one. In addition to the resources from Elaine Ingham referred to earlier, you may want to join the Compost Tea discussion list at Yahoo!Groups. The archives include compost tea lab tests, comparative results between composts, etc. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/ Next, Regarding "detailed studies on the microbial ecology of worm guts and worm castings": Here is a vermiculture paper worth downloading. Dr. Sultan Ismail is one of the leaders of vermicomposting technology in India. Vermitech-A Potential Technology for Soil Management and Productivity S. Sundaravadivel and Sultan Ismail | Institute of Research in Soil Biology and Biotechnology, The New College, Chennai, India http://www.shaping-the-future.de/pdf_www/128_paper.pdf The following references from this paper are worth noting: Nielson R L, (1965) Presence of plant growth substances in earthworms demonstrated by paper chromatography and the went pea test. Nature Lond 208: 113-114. Parle J N, (1963 a) Microorganisms in the intestines of earthworms. J Gen Microbial 31: 1-13. Parle J N, (1963 b) A microbilogical study of earthworm casts. J Gen Microbial 31: 13-23. It so happens that India is a world leader in vermicomposting, biofertilizers, and plant-based pest control (liquid manures and fermented plant extracts). To capture web-based resources on vermiculture in India, I posted the following resource list on Permaculture. [permaculture] Vermicompost + Cuba + India 30 May 2002 http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/permaculture/msg01124.html An additional worm-extract from India is vermiwash. Vermiwash is made by dripping water (or something like an occassional watering at weekly or bi-weekly intervals) through an active worm bed or a worm barrel with an outlet at the bottom to collect the vermiwash. The vermiwash is used as a foliar spray that functions as a foliar fertilizer, biostimulant, and prophylactic pest control. It is also mixed with cow urine and plant extracts. The following two links provide a glimpse into the many different recipes and approaches used in India to prepare plant extracts and vermiwash: Growing Biodynamic Sugar Cane in India http://www.biodynamics.net.au/resources/ Green Foundation Newsletter http://www.greenconserve.com/Our%20Periodical%20Newsletter.htm On a related note, The whole approach to plant-based pest control using native plants and locally grown herbs to prepare liquid manures and fermented plant extracts is well developed in India. There are two indigenous knowledge data sources in India that capture farmer experiences with plant-based pest control: Indigenous Knowledge News Centre for Indian Knowledge Systems || Chennai, India http://www.ciks.org/archives.html Honeybee Network & Innovation Database SRISTI || Ahmedabad, India http://www.sristi.org/honeybee.html The Indigenous Knowledge News is an especially rich online source to learn about plant-based pest control. This newsletter was formerly titled "Pesticide Post." The Centre for Indian Knowledge Systems publishes a series of booklets called "Plants in Pest Control." http://www.ciks.org/agpub.html Finally, Compost teas, EM, liquid manures, and fermented plant extracts are worth exploring because they match the principles of organic agriculture to use local resources and biological processes. They work with organic substrates and microbes to transform raw materials into fertilizers and pest controls. They bring a dynamic effect to the phyllosphere and the rhizosphere. They are biological farming and humus management practices that provide the terrain for microbes to do their work. Steve Diver ATTRA . From - Wed Nov 06 13:23:30 2002 X-UIDL: 322732258 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB5420180110; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:11:32 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB8A188600B2; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:12:26 -0500 Received: from srvtask (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id WKLFX665; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:12:28 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 3548 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:12:22 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:12:21 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gA6IIOX24222 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:18:24 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3DC94898.B770580F@ncatark.uark.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DC95C2F.24C1E2BA@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:15:11 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Species diversity + Plate Culture To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322732258 Status: U I guess I should alter this for clarity. It is sometimes helpful to read a "second" viewpoint. What I mean to say is that Johnny Agulia confirms what Elaine Ingham has been saying about the plate-count vs direct-look method. Direct-look is a colloquial term for the microbial bioassay method developed by Dr. Ingham through her graduate research and introduced as a commercial lab service during her tenure at Oregon State University. It uses high-end epiflourescent microscopy to visually observe and measure bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes. Steve Diver > It is sometimes helpful to read a different viewpoint. In the > following piece, Johnny Agulia at ABC ORGANICS summarizes > the difference between "Plate-Count" and "Direct-Look" methods > for microbial analysis. Be sure to read the "French Poodle effect" > to gain a hands-on appreciation for the biological farming approach > versus the NPK farming approach. > http://www.abcorganics.com/Compost%20Production.htm > > Adios, > Steve Diver . From - Wed Nov 06 12:06:10 2002 X-UIDL: 322732255 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7DB1D720102; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:48:27 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A81A6620138; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:49:30 -0500 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id WKLFXYR2; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:48:58 -0500 Received: FROM srvtask BY nt-web ; Wed Nov 06 11:48:54 2002 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 3501 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:48:47 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:48:46 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gA6GsnX22926 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:54:49 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DC94898.B770580F@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:51:37 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Species diversity + Plate Culture To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322732255 Status: U Still, there are other uses of plate counts... One useful aspect of plate culture is to look at potential for disease suppression and pathogen inhibition, by microbial cultures or with compost samples. Make a compost extract and put your sample in there and let the critters duke it out. See: Pathogen Inhibition Assay @ Bob Baars site http://www.compara.nl/what_compost.htm It is also interesting to just grow out microbes from composts and soils and microbial inoculants. You can "see" diversity for yourself as the different microbial cultures start to grow on a plate. Compare high diversity plates to low diversity plates -- a contrast between well managed soils and neglected soils -- and you start to get the idea what diversity is all about and why it is important. There is a memorable piece in the Japanese "Life in the Soil" video that illustrates this point. You can also select microbial cultures that start to grow from soils or composts, identify them by mass spectrophotometry, then culture them, then add them as an adjunct to compost teas and liquid biologicals. Agri-Energy Resources in Illinois is doing this on a commercial basis. http://www.agrienergy.net/products/indexproducts.html http://www.agrienergy.net/products/research_data.htm The power of this approach can be understood from Midwest Bio-Systems' experience in the Georgia vegetable grower's field, where a virus in bell peppers was "arrested" through an integrated eco-farming approach that included mineral balancing, high quality compost application, and amended compost teas obtained from Agri-Energy Resources. Getting a vegetable crop to grow out of virus infection through organic and biological farming practices is a *major* development. No wonder people are so upset about the NOP rules on compost teas. The sophistication among organic farmers and crop advisory labs to implement advanced biological farming aproaches -- such as sophisticated compost tea blends -- is years ahead of 95% of the land-grant university of USDA programs. Incidentally, Agri-Energy hosts this piece that I am fond of passing along; a synopsis of European and American viewpoints on the importance of soil life and humus management. The Soil Life - Humus - Soil Fertility Connection http://www.agrienergy.net/renewabledata/soil%20life%20humus/soillife.html Likewise, Midwest Bio-Systems hosts this piece on compost quality. Distinguishing Compost Quality http://www.aeromasterequipment.com/compostquality.html And this piece, University Research on ACS Compost from Midwest Bio-Systems http://www.aeromasterequipment.com/universityresearch.html It is sometimes helpful to read a different viewpoint. In the following piece, Johnny Agulia at ABC ORGANICS summarizes the difference between "Plate-Count" and "Direct-Look" methods for microbial analysis. Be sure to read the "French Poodle effect" to gain a hands-on appreciation for the biological farming approach versus the NPK farming approach. http://www.abcorganics.com/Compost%20Production.htm Adios, Steve Diver . From - Wed Nov 06 12:06:10 2002 X-UIDL: 322732255 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7DB1D720102; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:48:27 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A81A6620138; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:49:30 -0500 Received: from nt-web (nt-web.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.140]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id WKLFXYR2; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:48:58 -0500 Received: FROM srvtask BY nt-web ; Wed Nov 06 11:48:54 2002 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 3501 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:48:47 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:48:46 -0500 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id gA6GsnX22926 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:54:49 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DC94898.B770580F@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:51:37 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Species diversity + Plate Culture To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322732255 Status: U Still, there are other uses of plate counts... One useful aspect of plate culture is to look at potential for disease suppression and pathogen inhibition, by microbial cultures or with compost samples. Make a compost extract and put your sample in there and let the critters duke it out. See: Pathogen Inhibition Assay @ Bob Baars site http://www.compara.nl/what_compost.htm It is also interesting to just grow out microbes from composts and soils and microbial inoculants. You can "see" diversity for yourself as the different microbial cultures start to grow on a plate. Compare high diversity plates to low diversity plates -- a contrast between well managed soils and neglected soils -- and you start to get the idea what diversity is all about and why it is important. There is a memorable piece in the Japanese "Life in the Soil" video that illustrates this point. You can also select microbial cultures that start to grow from soils or composts, identify them by mass spectrophotometry, then culture them, then add them as an adjunct to compost teas and liquid biologicals. Agri-Energy Resources in Illinois is doing this on a commercial basis. http://www.agrienergy.net/products/indexproducts.html http://www.agrienergy.net/products/research_data.htm The power of this approach can be understood from Midwest Bio-Systems' experience in the Georgia vegetable grower's field, where a virus in bell peppers was "arrested" through an integrated eco-farming approach that included mineral balancing, high quality compost application, and amended compost teas obtained from Agri-Energy Resources. Getting a vegetable crop to grow out of virus infection through organic and biological farming practices is a *major* development. No wonder people are so upset about the NOP rules on compost teas. The sophistication among organic farmers and crop advisory labs to implement advanced biological farming aproaches -- such as sophisticated compost tea blends -- is years ahead of 95% of the land-grant university of USDA programs. Incidentally, Agri-Energy hosts this piece that I am fond of passing along; a synopsis of European and American viewpoints on the importance of soil life and humus management. The Soil Life - Humus - Soil Fertility Connection http://www.agrienergy.net/renewabledata/soil%20life%20humus/soillife.html Likewise, Midwest Bio-Systems hosts this piece on compost quality. Distinguishing Compost Quality http://www.aeromasterequipment.com/compostquality.html And this piece, University Research on ACS Compost from Midwest Bio-Systems http://www.aeromasterequipment.com/universityresearch.html It is sometimes helpful to read a different viewpoint. In the following piece, Johnny Agulia at ABC ORGANICS summarizes the difference between "Plate-Count" and "Direct-Look" methods for microbial analysis. Be sure to read the "French Poodle effect" to gain a hands-on appreciation for the biological farming approach versus the NPK farming approach. http://www.abcorganics.com/Compost%20Production.htm Adios, Steve Diver . From - Thu Oct 31 13:05:18 2002 X-UIDL: 322731849 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADF348AC0136; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:51 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADE53EE00208; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:37 -0500 Received: from srvtask (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id VNS11VC9; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:14 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 19511 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:16 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by SRVTASK.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:42:15 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g9VHmIX00053 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:48:18 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DC16C0A.4D6B1E61@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:44:43 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Regulation of compost teas To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322731849 Status: U I have been away a couple of weeks, traveling through India examining biodynamic and organic agriculture, so I am just now reading through this Sanet thread. It so happens I also met Sanjay Aggarwal with Maple Organics, who has plenty of experience working with EM in agriculture and effluent waste streams. It may be helpful to sunmmarize three microbial pathways in relation to organic matter decomposition: 1. Aerobic thermophyllic 2. Putrefactive anaerobic 3. Fermentative anaerobic Putrefactive anaerobic is the rotting manure that sits in the open drawing flies. If you take that same manure and mix it with biomass and build a compost pile with proper C:N ratio, moisture, and aeration, you get a thermophyllic heating process that turns into a crumbly, dark, humus material known as compost. If you spray the manure in the animal stall with EM it will initiate a fermentative aneraobic microbial pathway and prevent flies and odors. You can later take that EM-sprayed manure to the thermophyllic compost pile, or you can build an EM heap and promote a breakdown process that results in fermented biomass. I do not consider humified compost and fermented biomass to be the same thing, yet both are useful processes and products. EM is fermentative anaerobic. So is miso, kim chee, tempeh, and a number of Oriential foods, as well as ensilage for your dairy cow. E. coli is a putrefactive organism, it is not compatible with EM. E. coli in organic agriculture, compost teas, and related biological farming technologies including EM is an overblown topic, it seems to me. Elaine Ingham has already summarized the compost tea situation pretty well. It is an unfortunate turn of events that NOP went down the path of E. coli hysteria at the same time the compost tea industry is taking off like wild fire, providing a dynamic new tool for organic agriculture. A 120 day waiting period kicks compost tea out of the life cycle of the crop. Yet it is the inoculation of the leaf surface and the root surface with compost tea which results in such a dynamic benefit to the crop, especially at crucial stages of growth. Compost teas provide soluble nutrients which promote a noticeable greening of crops, they provide bioactive compounds which function as biostimulants and effect metabolic processes, and they provide beneficial microorganicsm which coat the plant surfaces and provide numerous biocontrol mechanisms. Steve Diver Edna wrote: Sanjay mentioned using EM to make compost tea. Elaine and others talked about making sure the tea is aereated to prevent growth of E. coli. As I understand it, EM is made up of organisms that ferment in the absence of oxygen (anaerobic). I'm curious what this means relative to the potential of multiplying any E. coli that may contaminate the EM juice. Any comments? Edna . From - Thu Oct 31 13:05:18 2002 X-UIDL: 322731849 X-Mozilla-Status: 0015 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp.intrex.net [209.42.192.250] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADF348AC0136; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:51 -0500 Received: from nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.250] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADE53EE00208; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:37 -0500 Received: from srvtask (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by nt-exchange.ifas.ufl.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id VNS11VC9; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:14 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 19511 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:52:16 -0500 Received: from 130.184.56.248 by SRVTASK.IFAS.UFL.EDU (SMTPL release 1.0f) with TCP; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:42:15 -0400 Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g9VHmIX00053 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:48:18 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3DC16C0A.4D6B1E61@ncatark.uark.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:44:43 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: Regulation of compost teas To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.250] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: X-UIDL: 322731849 Status: U I have been away a couple of weeks, traveling through India examining biodynamic and organic agriculture, so I am just now reading through this Sanet thread. It so happens I also met Sanjay Aggarwal with Maple Organics, who has plenty of experience working with EM in agriculture and effluent waste streams. It may be helpful to sunmmarize three microbial pathways in relation to organic matter decomposition: 1. Aerobic thermophyllic 2. Putrefactive anaerobic 3. Fermentative anaerobic Putrefactive anaerobic is the rotting manure that sits in the open drawing flies. If you take that same manure and mix it with biomass and build a compost pile with proper C:N ratio, moisture, and aeration, you get a thermophyllic heating process that turns into a crumbly, dark, humus material known as compost. If you spray the manure in the animal stall with EM it will initiate a fermentative aneraobic microbial pathway and prevent flies and odors. You can later take that EM-sprayed manure to the thermophyllic compost pile, or you can build an EM heap and promote a breakdown process that results in fermented biomass. I do not consider humified compost and fermented biomass to be the same thing, yet both are useful processes and products. EM is fermentative anaerobic. So is miso, kim chee, tempeh, and a number of Oriential foods, as well as ensilage for your dairy cow. E. coli is a putrefactive organism, it is not compatible with EM. E. coli in organic agriculture, compost teas, and related biological farming technologies including EM is an overblown topic, it seems to me. Elaine Ingham has already summarized the compost tea situation pretty well. It is an unfortunate turn of events that NOP went down the path of E. coli hysteria at the same time the compost tea industry is taking off like wild fire, providing a dynamic new tool for organic agriculture. A 120 day waiting period kicks compost tea out of the life cycle of the crop. Yet it is the inoculation of the leaf surface and the root surface with compost tea which results in such a dynamic benefit to the crop, especially at crucial stages of growth. Compost teas provide soluble nutrients which promote a noticeable greening of crops, they provide bioactive compounds which function as biostimulants and effect metabolic processes, and they provide beneficial microorganicsm which coat the plant surfaces and provide numerous biocontrol mechanisms. Steve Diver Edna wrote: Sanjay mentioned using EM to make compost tea. Elaine and others talked about making sure the tea is aereated to prevent growth of E. coli. As I understand it, EM is made up of organisms that ferment in the absence of oxygen (anaerobic). I'm curious what this means relative to the potential of multiplying any E. coli that may contaminate the EM juice. Any comments? Edna . From - Thu May 22 01:10:38 2003 X-UIDL: 347347731 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id ADF5723D00D4; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:38:29 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 912DAB49BF; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 22DD2B49A8 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 19:40:02 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3695-1053560306-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2003 23:38:27 -0000 X-Sender: jery_morgan@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 21 May 2003 23:38:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 70923 invoked from network); 21 May 2003 23:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2003 23:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2003 23:38:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2003 23:38:24 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01C31EAB.31D09520.geomouchet@Qnet.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jery_morgan" X-Originating-IP: 68.6.84.38 X-Yahoo-Profile: jery_morgan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:38:24 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-itxsa: -28.4 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347731 I think i heard the soil under banannas and bamboo are rich in beneficial soil life. I think one probably banannas high in bact. and probably the bamboo high in fungi. does that sound right? --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, George and Paulette Mouchet wrote: > I posted this question awhile back and didn't get any response. I'll try again: > > Are there specific plants that attract and support high colonies of beneficial soil organisms? > > Paulette ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Fri May 23 00:33:01 2003 X-UIDL: 347347762 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id ABAEBCCF009E; Thu, 22 May 2003 23:55:26 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 10872B49D4; Thu, 22 May 2003 23:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E0F53B4E79 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3705-1053661980-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 03:53:00 -0000 X-Sender: compostea@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90547 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Terence Dodge" X-Originating-IP: 216.99.216.225 X-Yahoo-Profile: compostea MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 03:52:58 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-itxsa: -28.4 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347762 --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "jery_morgan" wrote: > I think i heard the soil under banannas and bamboo are rich in > beneficial soil life. I think one probably banannas high in bact. > and probably the bamboo high in fungi. does that sound right? Read a note in a bamboo publication that the same species of bamboo in two different but close location one near a stream the other not, had I recollect a bacterial dominance near the stream but somewhat more fungal in the grove away from the stream. Bamboo is a grass and grasses tend to be bacterial"but" depending on the soil (clay, sand, loam mix) a fungal bacterial blend is probably a good guess. Bananas well ask Dr. I, she has worked with banana growers in Australia. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Fri May 23 00:54:34 2003 X-UIDL: 347347763 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A42BBE4C009E; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:31:39 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 40D28B496B; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D2C12B4911 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3706-1053664296-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 04:31:36 -0000 X-Sender: lfl@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35411 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 04:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2003 04:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 04:31:34 -0000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.230.8] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A42B12FB00BC; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:31:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3ECDD171.70304@intrex.net> Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com References: X-Declude-Sender: lfl@intrex.net [209.42.230.8] From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Yahoo-Profile: rpshovel MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:44:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-itxsa: -26.9 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347763 Terence Dodge wrote: > --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "jery_morgan" wrote: > >>I think i heard the soil under banannas and bamboo are rich in >>beneficial soil life. I think one probably banannas high in bact. >>and probably the bamboo high in fungi. does that sound right? > > > Read a note in a bamboo publication that the same species of bamboo in two different but close location one near a stream the other not, >had I recollect a bacterial dominance near the stream but somewhat more fungal in the grove away from the stream. >Bamboo is a grass and grasses tend to be bacterial"but" depending on the soil (clay, sand, loam mix) a fungal bacterial blend is >probably a good guess. Bananas well ask Dr. I, she has worked with banana growers in Australia. Here's more about that from the sanet-mg list: [a reply to Jeff Lowenfels] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: fungal vs bacterial/ till no? No till? Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:58 +0000 From: gil carandang Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU jeff, thanks for the information. it is really of great help. currently, we do a lot of experimentations and observations on several vegetable families. we do our own microbial culture using lacto bacilli, forest and bamboo microorganism. apparently, the forest ones are much fungal and the bamboo much bacterial. lactic acid bacteria however is our main workhorse in composting, digestion and arresting foul odors. we do a lot of anaerobic fermentation. in fact, we ferment our materials first before we really compost them. we make special designer compost that includes several diversed materials of which we inoculate with beneficial indigenous microorganisms and add lots of bionutrients we normally extract from herbs. our designer compost we add rice bran and rice hull charcoal aside from microbes and bionutrients. this compost is what we will start using for our compost teas. anaerobic to aerobic? well, let's see. again, thanks. gil [a reply to Elaine Ingham] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: fungal vs bacterial/ till no? No till? Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:12:58 +0000 From: gil carandang Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU dear elaine, i appreciate greatly your response. in fact, you are right. there's a difference between the putrefactive and fermentative processes. putrefactive anaerobic results in real foul stinky smells like sewage. fermentative has much sour but not rotten smell. there are definite subtleties on the smells and experience is our best teacher. some people like the EM people also test the pH. anyway, you definitely can use the yogurt. i however, make our own lacto bacilli in a very simple way. we do a two stage process. we first trap several microbes to its food like carbohydrate and then saturate them (on the second stage) with milk. in this manner, we eliminate the other microbes and keep a pure lacto bacilli culture. we then add another kind of food to keep them alive rather than the customary refrigeration. in the countryside, at least in the philippines, we don't have refrigeration. it is very cheap to produce that it is almost unbelievable. i have a booklet on this process that i distributed at the recent ecofarm conference. anyone who will be interested would simply need to e-mail me at: gil_carandang@hotmail.com. i was also told that lacto bacilli is both anaerobic and aerobic. i guess it is more anaerobic or may we call facultative. lacto bacilli is really a microbial workhorse. it is normally associated with the word probiotics. and in organic agriculture, especially livestock, they use a lot of these and combined with immune booster herbs like aloe vera. again, most of highly nutritious foods are fermented foods. and lots of them are lactic acid fermented. in the same token, the microorganisms that we get from the forest are assumed by natural farmers to be beneficial (as you observe where you get them) and maybe more fungal in association. and the bamboo microorganism we use can be said to be more bacterial for its roots exudates attract a lot of beneficial bacteria. as natural farmers, do i still need tests and counts? probably yes. although most practical farmers will not have to. through our experimentations and observations, we should be able to "see". we natural farmers always believe that if we open our eyes, ears, heart and being to nature, nature will start to unfold its mysteries to us. the ultimate answer to all our agricultural questions lie not on man but on nature herself. as long as we align our methods to the workings of nature, we should be in good position. it is our holistic approach and broader realization and appreciation of nature that will guide us and not discriminating and dichotomized mindsets of the reductionist science. [...] again, thanks. gil carandang herbana farms philippines <><><> -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Fri May 23 14:39:44 2003 X-UIDL: 347347781 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A7E259A00C4; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:10:10 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 53A72B4A26; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E508B4806 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:11:49 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3710-1053706205-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 16:10:05 -0000 X-Sender: Soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95863 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 16:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2003 16:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r07.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.103) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 16:10:02 -0000 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id r.1a7.14a8c961 (3964) for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4@aol.com> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10503 From: soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: soilfoodweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:09:40 EDT Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary" X-Spam-itxsa: -1 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347781 --part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soil under any tree SHOULD be rich in microbial life. But often, it is NOT. Why? The chemicals we have been pouring on the soil. Different "-icides" and salts, otherwise called fertilizers. There is benefit in a fertilizer, true, but potentially a great deal of harm. Concentration is the key factor there. If bananas are healthy, they tend to be in the slightly bacterial to slightly fungal balance of fungi to bacteria. Actually the best banana I know (Ono Farms on Maui) has soil on the fungal side. Not hugely fungal, but on the fungal side. Lactic acid bacteria are not really conducive to growth of fungi, at least what I've seen. Making compost with fermentative bacteria TO START might prevent the putrefactive loss of N, S and P through volatilization, buut once the hot phase of the composting is over, then pushing the right fungi is important. But, yes, indigenous fungal species. Indigenous fermentative species as well. Buying EM or another bacterial inoculum might get things started in the right direction, but then you want to start saving and developing your own inoculum with time. That's the best way to get the species adapted to your local conditions. Get the "good-guy " fungi from soil under trees that are HEALTHY. Deep roots, going deep into the soil, not roots hampered by compaction, anaerobic conditions, and running along the surface of the soil. Elaine President, Soil Foodweb Inc. www.soilfoodweb.com SFI Oregon, USA SFI Australia SFI New York SFI Europe SFI New Zealand "Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out." -- Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic --part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soil under any tree SHOULD be rich in microbial life. 

But often, it is NOT.  Why?  The chemicals we have been pouring on the soil.  Different "-icides" and salts, otherwise called fertilizers.  There is benefit in a fertilizer, true, but potentially a great deal of harm.  Concentration is the key factor there. 

If bananas are healthy, they tend to be in the slightly bacterial to slightly fungal balance of fungi to bacteria.  Actually the best banana I know (Ono Farms on Maui) has soil on the fungal side.  Not hugely fungal, but on the fungal side. 

Lactic acid bacteria are not really conducive to growth of fungi, at least what I've seen.  Making compost with fermentative bacteria TO START might prevent the putrefactive loss of N, S and P through volatilization, buut once the hot phase of the composting is over, then pushing the right fungi is important. 

But, yes, indigenous fungal species.  Indigenous fermentative species as well.  Buying EM or another bacterial inoculum might get things started in the right direction, but then you want to start saving and developing your own inoculum with time.  That's the best way to get the species adapted to your local conditions. 

Get the "good-guy " fungi from soil under trees that are HEALTHY.  Deep roots, going deep into the soil, not roots hampered by compaction, anaerobic conditions, and running along the surface of the soil.

Elaine
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
SFI Oregon, USA
SFI Australia
SFI New York
SFI Europe
SFI New Zealand

"Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out."   --  Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic


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--part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary-- From - Fri May 23 00:54:34 2003 X-UIDL: 347347763 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A42BBE4C009E; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:31:39 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 40D28B496B; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D2C12B4911 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3706-1053664296-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 04:31:36 -0000 X-Sender: lfl@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35411 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 04:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2003 04:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 04:31:34 -0000 Received: from intrex.net [209.42.230.8] by smtp.intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A42B12FB00BC; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:31:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3ECDD171.70304@intrex.net> Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com References: X-Declude-Sender: lfl@intrex.net [209.42.230.8] From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Yahoo-Profile: rpshovel MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:44:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-itxsa: -26.9 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347763 Terence Dodge wrote: > --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "jery_morgan" wrote: > >>I think i heard the soil under banannas and bamboo are rich in >>beneficial soil life. I think one probably banannas high in bact. >>and probably the bamboo high in fungi. does that sound right? > > > Read a note in a bamboo publication that the same species of bamboo in two different but close location one near a stream the other not, >had I recollect a bacterial dominance near the stream but somewhat more fungal in the grove away from the stream. >Bamboo is a grass and grasses tend to be bacterial"but" depending on the soil (clay, sand, loam mix) a fungal bacterial blend is >probably a good guess. Bananas well ask Dr. I, she has worked with banana growers in Australia. Here's more about that from the sanet-mg list: [a reply to Jeff Lowenfels] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: fungal vs bacterial/ till no? No till? Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:58 +0000 From: gil carandang Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU jeff, thanks for the information. it is really of great help. currently, we do a lot of experimentations and observations on several vegetable families. we do our own microbial culture using lacto bacilli, forest and bamboo microorganism. apparently, the forest ones are much fungal and the bamboo much bacterial. lactic acid bacteria however is our main workhorse in composting, digestion and arresting foul odors. we do a lot of anaerobic fermentation. in fact, we ferment our materials first before we really compost them. we make special designer compost that includes several diversed materials of which we inoculate with beneficial indigenous microorganisms and add lots of bionutrients we normally extract from herbs. our designer compost we add rice bran and rice hull charcoal aside from microbes and bionutrients. this compost is what we will start using for our compost teas. anaerobic to aerobic? well, let's see. again, thanks. gil [a reply to Elaine Ingham] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: fungal vs bacterial/ till no? No till? Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:12:58 +0000 From: gil carandang Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU dear elaine, i appreciate greatly your response. in fact, you are right. there's a difference between the putrefactive and fermentative processes. putrefactive anaerobic results in real foul stinky smells like sewage. fermentative has much sour but not rotten smell. there are definite subtleties on the smells and experience is our best teacher. some people like the EM people also test the pH. anyway, you definitely can use the yogurt. i however, make our own lacto bacilli in a very simple way. we do a two stage process. we first trap several microbes to its food like carbohydrate and then saturate them (on the second stage) with milk. in this manner, we eliminate the other microbes and keep a pure lacto bacilli culture. we then add another kind of food to keep them alive rather than the customary refrigeration. in the countryside, at least in the philippines, we don't have refrigeration. it is very cheap to produce that it is almost unbelievable. i have a booklet on this process that i distributed at the recent ecofarm conference. anyone who will be interested would simply need to e-mail me at: gil_carandang@hotmail.com. i was also told that lacto bacilli is both anaerobic and aerobic. i guess it is more anaerobic or may we call facultative. lacto bacilli is really a microbial workhorse. it is normally associated with the word probiotics. and in organic agriculture, especially livestock, they use a lot of these and combined with immune booster herbs like aloe vera. again, most of highly nutritious foods are fermented foods. and lots of them are lactic acid fermented. in the same token, the microorganisms that we get from the forest are assumed by natural farmers to be beneficial (as you observe where you get them) and maybe more fungal in association. and the bamboo microorganism we use can be said to be more bacterial for its roots exudates attract a lot of beneficial bacteria. as natural farmers, do i still need tests and counts? probably yes. although most practical farmers will not have to. through our experimentations and observations, we should be able to "see". we natural farmers always believe that if we open our eyes, ears, heart and being to nature, nature will start to unfold its mysteries to us. the ultimate answer to all our agricultural questions lie not on man but on nature herself. as long as we align our methods to the workings of nature, we should be in good position. it is our holistic approach and broader realization and appreciation of nature that will guide us and not discriminating and dichotomized mindsets of the reductionist science. [...] again, thanks. gil carandang herbana farms philippines <><><> -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Fri May 23 00:33:01 2003 X-UIDL: 347347762 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id ABAEBCCF009E; Thu, 22 May 2003 23:55:26 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 10872B49D4; Thu, 22 May 2003 23:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E0F53B4E79 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3705-1053661980-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 03:53:00 -0000 X-Sender: compostea@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90547 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Terence Dodge" X-Originating-IP: 216.99.216.225 X-Yahoo-Profile: compostea MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 03:52:58 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-itxsa: -28.4 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347762 --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "jery_morgan" wrote: > I think i heard the soil under banannas and bamboo are rich in > beneficial soil life. I think one probably banannas high in bact. > and probably the bamboo high in fungi. does that sound right? Read a note in a bamboo publication that the same species of bamboo in two different but close location one near a stream the other not, had I recollect a bacterial dominance near the stream but somewhat more fungal in the grove away from the stream. Bamboo is a grass and grasses tend to be bacterial"but" depending on the soil (clay, sand, loam mix) a fungal bacterial blend is probably a good guess. Bananas well ask Dr. I, she has worked with banana growers in Australia. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Fri May 23 14:39:44 2003 X-UIDL: 347347781 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A7E259A00C4; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:10:10 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 53A72B4A26; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E508B4806 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:11:49 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-3710-1053706205-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2003 16:10:05 -0000 X-Sender: Soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95863 invoked from network); 23 May 2003 16:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2003 16:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r07.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.103) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2003 16:10:02 -0000 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id r.1a7.14a8c961 (3964) for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4@aol.com> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10503 From: soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: soilfoodweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:09:40 EDT Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: plants that attract/support microbes? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary" X-Spam-itxsa: -1 X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347781 --part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soil under any tree SHOULD be rich in microbial life. But often, it is NOT. Why? The chemicals we have been pouring on the soil. Different "-icides" and salts, otherwise called fertilizers. There is benefit in a fertilizer, true, but potentially a great deal of harm. Concentration is the key factor there. If bananas are healthy, they tend to be in the slightly bacterial to slightly fungal balance of fungi to bacteria. Actually the best banana I know (Ono Farms on Maui) has soil on the fungal side. Not hugely fungal, but on the fungal side. Lactic acid bacteria are not really conducive to growth of fungi, at least what I've seen. Making compost with fermentative bacteria TO START might prevent the putrefactive loss of N, S and P through volatilization, buut once the hot phase of the composting is over, then pushing the right fungi is important. But, yes, indigenous fungal species. Indigenous fermentative species as well. Buying EM or another bacterial inoculum might get things started in the right direction, but then you want to start saving and developing your own inoculum with time. That's the best way to get the species adapted to your local conditions. Get the "good-guy " fungi from soil under trees that are HEALTHY. Deep roots, going deep into the soil, not roots hampered by compaction, anaerobic conditions, and running along the surface of the soil. Elaine President, Soil Foodweb Inc. www.soilfoodweb.com SFI Oregon, USA SFI Australia SFI New York SFI Europe SFI New Zealand "Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out." -- Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic --part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soil under any tree SHOULD be rich in microbial life. 

But often, it is NOT.  Why?  The chemicals we have been pouring on the soil.  Different "-icides" and salts, otherwise called fertilizers.  There is benefit in a fertilizer, true, but potentially a great deal of harm.  Concentration is the key factor there. 

If bananas are healthy, they tend to be in the slightly bacterial to slightly fungal balance of fungi to bacteria.  Actually the best banana I know (Ono Farms on Maui) has soil on the fungal side.  Not hugely fungal, but on the fungal side. 

Lactic acid bacteria are not really conducive to growth of fungi, at least what I've seen.  Making compost with fermentative bacteria TO START might prevent the putrefactive loss of N, S and P through volatilization, buut once the hot phase of the composting is over, then pushing the right fungi is important. 

But, yes, indigenous fungal species.  Indigenous fermentative species as well.  Buying EM or another bacterial inoculum might get things started in the right direction, but then you want to start saving and developing your own inoculum with time.  That's the best way to get the species adapted to your local conditions. 

Get the "good-guy " fungi from soil under trees that are HEALTHY.  Deep roots, going deep into the soil, not roots hampered by compaction, anaerobic conditions, and running along the surface of the soil.

Elaine
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
SFI Oregon, USA
SFI Australia
SFI New York
SFI Europe
SFI New Zealand

"Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out."   --  Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic


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--part1_1a7.14a8c961.2bffa1c4_boundary-- From - Sun May 25 21:45:41 2003 X-UIDL: 347347849 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A7B0FA0400BC; Sun, 25 May 2003 14:13:04 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 919A91EC331; Sun, 25 May 2003 14:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1071EC524 for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 14:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001BBFF@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 25 May 2003 14:13:14 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 19074 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 25 May 2003 14:13:14 -0400 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001BBFE@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 25 May 2003 14:13:14 -0400 Received: from sdn-ap-019neomahp0425.dialsprint.net ([63.191.97.171] helo=ncat.org) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19JzzL-0001Z4-00; Sun, 25 May 2003 14:12:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (CPQCA2C02) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030520110810.0269f250@mail.ofrf.org> <001201c321b8$80240850$01ae1e43@stumpy> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050302020506010506060303" Message-ID: <3ED107AA.9090501@ncat.org> Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:12:58 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: strange brew Comments: To: elijah smith To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -0.8 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347347849 --------------050302020506010506060303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It sounds like a nature farming recipe. These include all kinds of on-farm biofertilizers and fermented extracts, made from local biomass sources and biological conversion processes. The red tinge may be a type of photosynthetic bacteria. EM (Effective Microorganism), one of the nature farming microbial tools, has these purple photosynthetic Rhodobacters, and an EM-treated hog-lagoon turned red is a sign of bioconversion. See: Enrichment & Isolation of Purple Non-Sulfur Photosynthetic Bacteria http://www.splammo.net/bact102/102pnsb.html Sudden Popularity of Soil Based Organisms (SBOs) as Probiotics In: http://www.antioxbrew.com/ What other details and background can you share, Elijah? Regards, Steve Diver ATTRA elijah smith wrote: > > > I need help identifying what sort of anaerobic bacteria we've grown. > Someone gave us a recipe for a sort of tea which is supposed to > "increase the amount of sunlight absorbed" when applied as a foliar > spray. The recipe goes like this: > > > > soak a pile of fish scales in water. Strain the water through red > cinder (we have a lot of this in Hawaii...). Let the water sit in a > full sealed glass jar in the sun. > > > > Well, we did it, and the glass jar sat and say for months and then all > of a sudden turned bright red - which was what was supposed to > happen... we can make more of it by just putting mixing it with clean > water and adding it to more jars; each in turn will turn red after a > bit. > > > > But what is it? Anyone ever heard of this stuff? Does it really > increase sunlight absorption? I though maybe 'cuz it was so red, it > might somehow let the plant intake a different part of the spectrum - > but I'm no scientist, I'm just guessing. > > > > Thanks! > > Elijah > > > --------------050302020506010506060303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It sounds like a nature farming recipe.  These include all kinds
of on-farm biofertilizers and fermented extracts, made from
local biomass sources and biological conversion processes.    

The red tinge may be a type of photosynthetic bacteria.  

EM (Effective Microorganism), one of the nature farming
microbial tools, has these purple photosynthetic Rhodobacters,
and an EM-treated hog-lagoon turned red is a sign of bioconversion.  
 
See:

Enrichment & Isolation of Purple Non-Sulfur Photosynthetic Bacteria
http://www.splammo.net/bact102/102pnsb.html

Sudden Popularity of Soil Based Organisms (SBOs) as Probiotics 
In:
http://www.antioxbrew.com/

What other details and background can you share, Elijah?

Regards,

Steve Diver
ATTRA


elijah smith wrote:
 
I need help identifying what sort of anaerobic bacteria we've grown.  Someone gave us a recipe for a sort of tea which is supposed to "increase the amount of sunlight absorbed" when applied as a foliar spray.  The recipe goes like this:
 
soak a pile of fish scales in water.  Strain the water through red cinder (we have a lot of this in Hawaii...).  Let the water sit in a full sealed glass jar in the sun.
 
Well, we did it, and the glass jar sat and say for months and then all of a sudden turned bright red - which was what was supposed to happen... we can make more of it by just putting mixing it with clean water and adding it to more jars; each in turn will turn red after a bit. 
 
But what is it?  Anyone ever heard of this stuff?  Does it really increase sunlight absorption?  I though maybe 'cuz it was so red, it might somehow let the plant intake a different part of the spectrum - but I'm no scientist, I'm just guessing. 
 
Thanks!
    Elijah
 

--------------050302020506010506060303-- From - Thu May 29 00:45:45 2003 X-UIDL: 347348045 X-Mozilla-Status: 1001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A2C59A1B026C; Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:17 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C1ED81EC4B9; Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F5911EC43F for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001C441@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:31 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 21510 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:31 -0400 Received: from mail.ncat.org (du132.194.onewest.net) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001C440@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 23:47:30 -0400 Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.238]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h4T3lEK24224 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 21:47:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <3ED58470.9ADB0E6B@ncat.org> Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:54:24 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: IPM - Picturing Impact method + bio-lahang compost decomposer To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347348045 Here are some worthwhile resources for your sustainable toolbox on: *Picturing Impact method for farmer study groups *IPM in Indonesia *Conservation of natural enemies *Insect Zoo *Rice ecosystem IPM *IPM as an entry point for Sustainable Livelihoods *Ecological Foundations to Tropical Rice IPM *Living Soils *Tea IPM Ecological Guide The picturing impact method and the on-farm recipe to make bio-lahang as a compost decomposer led me to these resources. The first item is an article on Farmer Study Groups and Community IPM in Indonesia, from the current issue of LEISA, the magazine on low-external input and sustainable agriculture. A farmer study technique is to loan out cameras so participants take pictures of their fields and farming methods, then come back and label the pictures and share experiences and reflect on the situation under study. Picturing Impact! by John Pontius LEISA / ILEIA | Vol. 19, No. 1 | March 2003 "Learning with Farmer Field Schools" issue http://www.ileia.org//2/19-1/18_21.PDF ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The full report can be viewed online in PDF and DOC: Picturing Impact: Participatory Evaluation of Community IPM in Three West Java Villages Dr. John C. Pontius FAO Regional Community IPM Program International Learning Workshop on Farmer Field Schools (FFS), October 2002, Yogyakarta, Indonesia http://www.eseap.cipotato.org/upward/Events/FFS-Workshop-Yogya2002/02-Pontius.pdf 45-page PDF Picturing Impact: Participatory Evaluation of Community IPM in Three West Java Villages http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/Picturing%20Impact/Picturing%20Impact%20top%20page.html Especially see: Chapter 4. Picturing Impact - Main Report 40-page DOC version "The goal of this study was to learn about the impact of Community IPM on poverty in farming communities. The study was carried out by farmers themselves, who took photographs of what they considered to be indicators of impact. The data consists of 84 photographs with captions." The entries on indigenous microbe preparation for "compost decomposers" and plant extracts for pest control remind me of on-farm recipes in nature farming. Excerpts: "The photograph is of a mixture of goat manure, leaves, and 'biolahang' (a decomposer that we make from 'lahang' or sugar palm sap, slices of banana tree trunks, and water). The compost is ripening. Good quality compost needs to ripen for anywhere from a week to 10 days. Biolahang is mixture that we make to speed the ripening process. There are many similar commercial products, but having tested them all against our decomposer, we know that ours is as good as any." - Yakub Syah | page 23 "Our decomposer is made from 'lahang' (sugar palm sap), slices of banana tree trunks, and water. Tirta Bumi tested the decomposer against a product called EMBIO, which is quite expensive. Bio-lahang is the equal of EMBIO. Yakub Syah | page 24 "Spider Gate. One of our efforts is to spread the word about IPM. We built this gate, which we decorated with pictures of spiders, a symbol of the need to conserve natural enemies. You could say that the gate has also become a symbol for our village, which we believe, has become an IPM village. Jarot Indraloka | page 25 "IPM activities have helped farmers to become scientists. This photo is of 'bio-lahang', the decomposer that we created and tested. It's cheap and performs as well as EM4 and EMBIO, which are both very expensive commercial products. If we can make it cheap, why should we buy something expensive? Aos Rosidin | page 30" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Other resources at this IPM site: Community Integrated Pest Management / formerly FAO Programme for Community IPM in Asia http://www.CommunityIPM.org .From Farmer Field Schools to Community IPM: Ten Years of IPM Training in Asia Editors: John Pontius, Russ Dilts, Andrew Bartlett April 2001 http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/10%20Years%20of%20IPM/10Years-Main.htm A detailed description of the development of Farmer Field Schools, including historical context, educational foundations, ecological principles and lessons learned. The document consists of 145 pages with many photographs, boxes and diagrams. To make it easier to download, the document has been split into 8 chapters Especially see: Chapter 3: The IPM Farmer Field School Chapter 6: Ecological Principles Underlying the FFS conservation of beneficial insects, spiders, and snakes ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Toxic Trail - A BBC documentary in the 'Earth Report' series http://www.communityipm.Org/ToxicTrail.htm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tea IPM Ecological Guide Michael R. Zeiss, Koen den Braber Translated by Tran Thanh Nam Published by CIDSE, April 2001 http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/Tea_Eco-Guide/Tea_Eco-Guide.html Especially see: Chapter Three: The Living Soil ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Living Soils: Training Exercises for Integrated Soils Management William Settle, 2000 http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/Living%20Soils/living%20soils.html 101-pages, tables, diagrams, 31 excercises ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Field Guide on Peanuts http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/PeanutIPMguide.zip See: Chapter 4, Insect Zoo ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Settle, W.H. et al. 1996. Managing Tropical Rice Pests Through Conservation of Generalist Natural Enemies and Alternative Prey. Ecology, 77(7): 1975-1988 http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/Ecol_settle.pdf 15-page PDF, classic article Mangan, J., and M.S.Mangan 1998. A comparison of two IPM training strategies in China: the importance of concepts or the rice ecosystem for sustainable insect pest management. Agriculture and Human Values 15: 209-221. http://www.communityipm.Org/docs/China-concepts.doc 22-page DOC ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ IPM as an entry point for Sustainable Livelihoods http://www.communityipm.Org/Concepts/sustlive01.htm "never in my wildest dreams did I think that a program about 'bugs' would bring the dawn of democracy and liberation to Indonesian villages" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ecological Foundations to Tropical Rice IPM http://www.communityipm.Org/Concepts/ecology01.html A practical guide to the ecological dynamics of the irrigated rice ecosystem, based on the classic paper in Ecology by William Settle in 1996. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Regards, Steve Diver NCAT / ATTRA =================================================== =================================================== From - Thu May 29 00:45:41 2003 X-UIDL: 347348031 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id AA57E96100BA; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:29:59 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A51C41EC3D1; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1BA1EC6D2 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001C3A1@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:30:06 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 21340 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:30:06 -0400 Received: from web21205.mail.yahoo.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0001C3A0@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 28 May 2003 17:30:06 -0400 Received: from [12.31.96.58] by web21205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 May 2003 14:29:48 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <20030528212948.10604.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:29:48 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Dale Wilson Subject: Re: gmo farming To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <007a01c324a9$a8d1caa0$6c8a7dc2@eircom> Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -1 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347348031 Hello John, > It is my feeling that gmo's are so popular in > the States because farmers worldwide have it very difficult > to make a living whatever they grow or produce. I think that is a big part of it. In the US corn belt, farmers either have to become very large, (thousands of acres), or they have to take an outside job. If one or two people are caring for a thousand acres of soybeans, the Roundup-Ready trait is a logistical Godsend. > GMO was " substantially" equivalent to the normal crop. It was > something that could be grown by the same methods used before and it > still had a flavor of being something new and exithing. That must > have lured many farmers into it for the first time. The seed industry jumped in with input traits (Insect and herbicide resistance) because these things are technically fairly straightforward. Many now believe that introducing *input-trait* GMO's first was a political blunder. The public haven't a clue, and do not care about the trials and tribulations of farmers, and input traits have no value in the larger political marketplace. It would have been better to first introduce traits that the consumer wants, like high vitamins, or better flavor, to help win the political battle over GMO's. Of course, such traits are kind of nebulous for corn and soybeans! (poor corn, poor soybeans, such boring crops, unless one looks closely) > The inertia for moving back to conventional seeds is partly caused > because there are no longer sufficient conventional seeds readilly > available. Naw, I know of people, and whole communities that grow non-GMO crops because they get a premium price. The seed company I am in now (Fielder's Choice) sold plenty of non-GMO seed. This is all market-driven, and I don't believe there is any groundswell away from GMO's. In fact, last year there was serious European Corn Borer pressure, and this has increased sales of Bt corn. Rootworm-resistant corn has just come on the market, and that is increasing demand for GMO seed too. Dale __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From - Thu Jul 03 12:02:05 2003 X-UIDL: 347350484 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A5E193AA008C; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:39:13 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id DF2F41EC69E; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEAE1EC692 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00020E47@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 7:39:36 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 21448 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:39:36 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f30.bay7.hotmail.com) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00020E46@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 7:39:36 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:39:09 -0700 Received: from 203.168.19.58 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:39:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.168.19.58] X-Originating-Email: [gil_carandang@hotmail.com] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 11:39:09.0618 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7AF3920:01C34157] Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:39:09 +0000 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: gil carandang Subject: Fwd: [SANET-MG] Technology Culture of Indigenous Microorganisms To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -0.3 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Spam-Prob: 0.014414 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347350484 hi all! i will be lecturing on the technology culture of beneficial indigenous microorganisms and bionutrients this july 11 at ISEES univ. of minnesota in st. paul for the organic aquaculture workshop. and in august 24, 2003, will also be doing one at solfest in hopland, california. ecofarm association of watsonville, california is hooking me up to conduct seminars and workshops on the technology while i am in the united states. i will arrive july 10 at st. paul and will leave for manila august 28. i am taking this opportunity to offer this asian natural farming technology that wiill really empower the american farmers. if anyone or group that will be interested to take advantage of my presence in the united states, you can e-mail me. you can organize an hour lecture or a whole day hands-on workshop on the said technology. after st. paul, minnesota, i intend to visit iowa and philadelphia. i also have a plan to visit new mexico. and most of the time, i will be based in santa cruz, california. many thanks folks! gil carandang herbana farms philippines >From: "gil carandang" >To: gil_carandang@hotmail.com >Subject: Fwd: [SANET-MG] Technology Culture of Indigenous Microorganisms >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:29:19 +0000 > > > > > > > > >>From: gil carandang >>Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group >> >>To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU >>Subject: [SANET-MG] Technology Culture of Indigenous Microorganisms >>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:20:12 +0000 >> >>Hi all! >>Since I mentioned to my e-mail to Dr.. Elaine Ingham about the culture of >>indigenous microorganisms for agriculture, a lot of people have e-mailed >>me >>on the booklet. I am then posting the details on this booklet: >> >>Technology of Culturing Beneficial Indigenous Microorganisms and >>Bionutrients for use in Agricultural Crops and Livestock >> >>Last January 23, 2003 Gil Carandang of Herbana Farms, a leading organic >>and >>natural farming advocate from the Philipines and who recently completed >>Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture at the University of California >>Santa Cruz, had just conducted a workshop on Indigenous Microorganism: >>Grow >>Your Own at the annual Ecological Farming Conference in Asilomar >>(Monterey, >>California) on full-packed crowd. >> >>Indigenous Microorganisms (IMO): Grow Your Own >>The recent interest in building microorganism populations for fertility >>and >>pathogen control has given many farmers food for thought. Compost teas >>are >>now becoming extremely high in concentrations of beneficial >>microorganisms. >>This interest is not so new in Asian countries, however, where "Nature >>Farming" and "Effective Microorganisms" or EM Technology has been popular >>for years. Buying starter cultures of beneficiaal microorganisms can be >>expensive for farmers. Now a relatively new movement is empowering >>farmers >>with knowledge about culturing, increasing and applying local or >>"indigenous" on-farm beneficial microorganisms. Learn the basic theory >>and >>techniques for growing these farming companions to help increase yields >>and >>reduce problems. >> >>"The best workshop I had in 18 years!" >>- Jim Nelson >> Camp Joy Gardens >> Boulder Creek, California >> >>Learn to culture Lacto Bacilli, the workhorse of the beneficial indigenous >>microorganisms. Lacto Bacilli arrest foul odors and improve digestion, >>nutrient intake. >>-Forest microorganism. Culture diversed, powerful beneficial indigenous >>microorganisms from the forest and apply them to your garden and farm and >>improve soil fertility. >>-Beneficial Indigenous Microorganisms produce enzymes and natural >>antibiotic >>that control pathogens like e. coli and salmonella. >>-Bionutrients. Fermented plant extracts to improve soil fertilty, control >>pests and diseases, increase microbial diversity and ecology. >> >>Did you know that you can gather plants in your farm and use them as >>fermented extracts to improve plant growth serving as natural growth >>promotants? >>... and many more! >> >>The booklet on this amazing natural farming technology is now available. >>You can organize your own workshop to learn this Asian Natural Farming >>technology empowering farmers, self-generating their own inputs through >>the >>culture of these Beneficial Indigenous Microorganisms and Bionutrients. >>Gil >>Carandang can be reached through e-mail: gil_carandang@hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From - Mon Jul 21 00:11:34 2003 X-UIDL: 347351763 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id ACC0DCE40090; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:58:56 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 13EA61EC622; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A621EC569 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00022E4E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 20 Jul 2003 19:58:46 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 24102 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:58:46 -0400 Received: from pony.its.uwo.ca by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00022E4D@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 20 Jul 2003 19:58:45 -0400 Received: from spork.its.uwo.ca (hurdle.its.uwo.ca [129.100.254.76]) by pony.its.uwo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6KNwFe6017153 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uwo.ca (hs6-8.onemeg.uwo.ca [129.100.6.8]) by spork.its.uwo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6KNwEpC029367 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:58:14 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <312084577.20030720175752@gmx.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000404090903090204000506" Message-ID: <3F1B2CAF.1040503@uwo.ca> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:58:39 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: joe cummins Subject: Re: spinosad a product of a fungus in organic production? To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <312084577.20030720175752@gmx.net> Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -1.3 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Spam-Prob: 0.000002 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347351763 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000404090903090204000506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Douglas and Joe Nessim, I am grateful for your valuable comments. I thank Douglas for reminding me that actinomycetes are bacteria and not fungi. Acinomyceters are filamentous spore forming bacteria that tend to hang around a lot with fungi.Actinomycetes make most antibiotics. Years ago when I was a student the actinomycetes were frequently called fungi or undecided but that debate was cleared up a long time ago. Now it is impolite to call actinomycetes fungi. I understand that the spinosad is produced by fermentation and not by chemical synthesis. So long as the insecticide is produced by bacteria it seems artificial do differ it from Bt. Douglas Hinds wrote: >Hello Joe and other saneters following this thread. > >Responding to your reply to Joe Cummins reading whether spinosad is >suitable for use in organic food production: > >JN> Yes, spinosad is very effective. A product called Tracer that >JN> contains 480 gr./liter spinosad is used here in Israel against >JN> the larva of a night moth that attacks dates (Batrachedra >JN> amydraula), and replaced previous conventional pesticides (such >JN> as Dursban) that were being used. > >That is very good to know. It would also be good to know the name of >the fungi which produces the substance found to have antibiotic >activity (which evidently has been named spinodad), so I checked it >out: > > Spinosad gets its name from the microbe that produces it, a > soil-dwelling bacterium called Saccharopolyspora spinosa. > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr00/crop0400.htm > >JN> HOWEVER -- this product has NOT been certified for use in >JN> organic agriculture here, and is not on the lists of approved >JN> materials certified by IFOAM. > >Not having been approved is one thing and having been rejected is >another and very different matter. Perhaps it hasn't been evaluated >yet. If it WAS evaluated and was rejected, on what grounds was that >decision made? > >JN> I've just rechecked their website, and if I'm not mistaken >JN> spinosad does not appear on the list. You can check this at : >JN> http://www.ifoam.org/standard/norms/ibs.pdf > >The word "spinosad" doesn't appear on the IFOAM list nor is it >contained anywhere in the file you mention above. That may suggest >that it hasn't been evaluated. (More on this below). > >JN> I believe the reason for not approving the substance has to do with the >JN> technology behind its production, and not because the agent itself is not >JN> natural.Possibly even uses some sort of genetic engineering, but I'm not >JN> certain about that. > >You are assuming the spinosad was rejected, then. However, that may >not be the case. We need to know that. > >JN> Whether this brand name (Tracer) is equivalent to the products >JN> approved by OMRI is something I don't know. OMRI might also be >JN> less strict than IFOAM. However, since this could possibly have >JN> something to do with your field of expertise, it might benefit >JN> this list if you could find out why spinosad has been approved >JN> by OMRI but not by IFOAM. > >1).- The nature and source of the substance would seem to qualify it > for organic food production, so if in fact it WAS rejected, it > must have been due to some other reason, such as the one you > suggested. (A number of Bt strains HAVE been genetically > modified, for instance - but that wouldn't rule out Bt strains > that weren't). > >2).- No global standards exist for providing organic certification. > Instead, each country (i.e. the USA or Japan) or commercial > block (i.e the European Union) has developed it's own standards > for allowing a product to be marketed as organic. > > In the case of the USA, the Organic Food Production Act (OFPA) > of 1990 (but which took effect only last year), mandates the > need to have organic products certified as such by one of a > number of organic certification agencies accredited by the > USDA. Otherwise (with a few minor exceptions), your product can > not be sold as organic. > > The reverse is also true. If your products have been certified > as organic by any one of a number of organic certification > agencies accredited by the USDA, then your product is organic, > period. > > Where does the IFOAM fit in? It doesn't! In the US organic > market, IFOAM's standards do not determine what is and isn't > organic. Furthermore, a number of the organic certification > agencies accredited by the USDA aren't even members of the > IFOAM. > > So, obviously, you need to know in which market your products > will be sold in before you plant, as well as use methods that > meet the official standards of that particular market, and use > an organic certification agency accredited by the organism > responsible for overseeing that market. > > For someone who ships to various markets, each with similar yet > slightly different standards, it may be wise to choose a method > capable of being certified in any and all of them (such as the > one I suggest below). > >3).- Being able insure the presence of the fungi itself in the soil > and on the plant would seem to me to be a preferable solution, > with inoculated compost and compost tea providing the same (or > perhaps better) results with less cost, along with an added > degree of prevention. Furthermore (unless compost tea is not > permitted), you're much more likely to satisfy the > certification requirements of all major organic markets. > > > >>>From: joe cummins >>>To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU >>>Subject: [SANET-MG] spinosad a product of a fungus in organic production? >>>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:08:28 -0400 >>> >>>An antibiotic product of a fungus, Spinosad, is providing effective >>>insect control. Is this product suitable for use in organic food >>>production? I do not know the answer and look forward to opinion from >>>organic gardeners. >>> >>> > > > >>>jc >>> >>> > >Douglas Hinds >Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural (CeDeCoR), A.C. >(Center for Community and Rural Development, a non-profit organization), > >Coordinador Nacional para Producción Organica, >Confederacion Nacional de Propietarios Rurales > >Dir. Gral de Proyectos Especiales, >Consejo Suprema Nacional Indigena > >All in Mexico > >Also: Chair of the Working Group on Organic Pineapple of the >International Society for Horticultural Science and Consultant for >the FAO group formed to draft a Technical Manual on Organic >Pineapple Production > >-- > >******************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: >1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; >2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > >Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html > > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html --------------000404090903090204000506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Douglas and Joe Nessim,
I am grateful for your valuable comments.
I thank Douglas for reminding me that actinomycetes are bacteria and not fungi. Acinomyceters are filamentous spore forming bacteria that tend to hang around a lot with fungi.Actinomycetes make most antibiotics. Years ago when I was a student the actinomycetes were frequently called fungi or undecided but that debate was cleared up a long time ago. Now it is impolite to call actinomycetes fungi.
I understand that the spinosad is produced by fermentation and not by chemical synthesis. So long as the insecticide is produced by bacteria it seems artificial do differ it from Bt.

Douglas Hinds wrote:
Hello Joe and other saneters following this thread.

Responding to your reply to Joe Cummins reading whether spinosad is
suitable for use in organic food production:

JN> Yes, spinosad is very effective. A product called Tracer that
JN> contains 480 gr./liter spinosad is used here in Israel against
JN> the larva of a night moth that attacks dates (Batrachedra
JN> amydraula), and replaced previous conventional pesticides (such
JN> as Dursban) that were being used.

That is very good to know. It would also be good to know the name of
the fungi which produces the substance found to have antibiotic
activity (which evidently has been named spinodad), so I checked it
out:

  Spinosad gets its name from the microbe that produces it, a
  soil-dwelling bacterium called Saccharopolyspora spinosa.
  http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr00/crop0400.htm

JN> HOWEVER -- this product has NOT been certified for use in
JN> organic agriculture here, and is not on the lists of approved
JN> materials certified by IFOAM.

Not having been approved is one thing and having been rejected is
another and very different matter. Perhaps it hasn't been evaluated
yet. If it WAS evaluated and was rejected, on what grounds was that
decision made?

JN> I've just rechecked their website, and if I'm not mistaken
JN> spinosad does not appear on the list. You can check this at :
JN> http://www.ifoam.org/standard/norms/ibs.pdf

The word "spinosad" doesn't appear on the IFOAM list nor is it
contained anywhere in the file you mention above. That may suggest
that it hasn't been evaluated. (More on this below).

JN>   I believe the reason for not approving the substance has to do with the
JN> technology behind its production, and not because the agent itself is not
JN> natural.Possibly even uses some sort of genetic engineering, but I'm not
JN> certain about that.

You are assuming the spinosad was rejected, then. However, that may
not be the case. We need to know that.

JN> Whether this brand name (Tracer) is equivalent to the products
JN> approved by OMRI is something I don't know. OMRI might also be
JN> less strict than IFOAM. However, since this could possibly have
JN> something to do with your field of expertise, it might benefit
JN> this list if you could find out why spinosad has been approved
JN> by OMRI but not by IFOAM.

1).- The nature and source of the substance would seem to qualify it
     for organic food production, so if in fact it WAS rejected, it
     must have been due to some other reason, such as the one you
     suggested. (A number of Bt strains HAVE been genetically
     modified, for instance - but that wouldn't rule out Bt strains
     that weren't).

2).- No global standards exist for providing organic certification.
     Instead, each country (i.e. the USA or Japan) or commercial
     block (i.e the European Union) has developed it's own standards
     for  allowing a product to be marketed as organic.

     In the case of the USA, the Organic Food Production Act (OFPA)
     of 1990 (but which took effect only last year), mandates the
     need to have organic products certified as such by one of a
     number of organic certification agencies accredited by the
     USDA. Otherwise (with a few minor exceptions), your product can
     not be sold as organic.

     The reverse is also true. If your products have been certified
     as organic by any one of a number of organic certification
     agencies accredited by the USDA, then your product is organic,
     period.

     Where does the IFOAM fit in? It doesn't! In the US organic
     market, IFOAM's standards do not determine what is and isn't
     organic. Furthermore, a number of the organic certification
     agencies accredited by the USDA aren't even members of the
     IFOAM.

     So, obviously, you need to know in which market your products
     will be sold in before you plant, as well as use methods that
     meet the official standards of that particular market, and use
     an organic certification agency accredited by the organism
     responsible for overseeing that market.

     For someone who ships to various markets, each with similar yet
     slightly different standards, it may be wise to choose a method
     capable of being certified in any and all of them (such as the
     one I suggest below).

3).- Being able insure the presence of the fungi itself in the soil
     and on the plant would seem to me to be a preferable solution,
     with inoculated compost and compost tea providing the same (or
     perhaps better) results with less cost, along with an added
     degree of prevention. Furthermore (unless compost tea is not
     permitted), you're much more likely to satisfy the
     certification requirements of all major organic markets.

  
From: joe cummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
Subject: [SANET-MG] spinosad a product of a fungus in organic production?
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:08:28 -0400

An antibiotic product of  a fungus, Spinosad, is providing effective
insect control. Is this product suitable for  use in organic food
production? I do not know the answer and look forward to opinion from
organic gardeners.
      

  
jc
      

Douglas Hinds
Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural (CeDeCoR), A.C.
(Center for Community and Rural Development, a non-profit organization),

Coordinador Nacional para Producción Organica,
Confederacion Nacional de Propietarios Rurales

Dir. Gral de Proyectos Especiales,
Consejo Suprema Nacional Indigena

All in Mexico

Also: Chair of the Working Group on Organic Pineapple of the
International Society for Horticultural Science and Consultant for
the FAO group formed to draft a Technical Manual on Organic
Pineapple Production

--

********************************************************

To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or;
2- Send a message to <listserv@sare.org> from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message.

Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html
  

&NBSP;

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--------------000404090903090204000506-- From - Thu Jul 24 23:41:21 2003 X-UIDL: 347352083 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id AF491DD014E; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:35:53 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D62681EC98B; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e4500b.callatg.com (e4500b.atgi.net [216.174.194.61]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 425441EC8EF for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7901 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2003 22:33:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO soilfoodweb.com) (66.224.46.2) by e4500a.atgi.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2003 22:33:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3F205FA0.2050805@soilfoodweb.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:37:20 -0700 From: "Soil Foodweb, Inc." Organization: Soil Foodweb Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: July 2003 E-zine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090200000008090705040901" To: undisclosed-recipients: ; X-Spam-itxsa: 3.1 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Spam-Prob: 0.189629 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347352083 --------------090200000008090705040901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit July 2003 SFI E-Zine Table of Contents 1. Feedback from the ICTC Seminar 2. Nutritional differences between organics and conventional 3. Upcoming SFI and SSI seminars 4. More Grower Experiences 5. More Compost Tea Brewing Manual Update --------------------------------- I'm on-time with this one! I leave for New Zealand and then Australia tomorrow, so I have to get this out! The ICTC Seminar a week ago was a huge success. Quite a few people wrote into the compost_tea@yahoogroups.com list serve about it, and I've put just a couple of their e-mails below. Next month I'll spend some time on soil considerations. Where are we in the northern and southern hemispheres on the annual cycle, and what's the "calendar" of taking soil samples, applying sustainable inputs, and so forth for a couple different systems. Anyone have a favorite system they want to have me focus on? ERI 1. Feedback on the International Compost Tea Council Seminar in July Hello- I, too, wish to thank the board of the ICTC for their hard work in setting up this excellent conference. I attended the Fri. session and found Elaine's presentation to be clear, entertaining, and very informative, as always, and Hendrickus Shraven's slide presentation was also excellent, as it showed a wide range of examples of projects where AACT can be useful in restoring health to an ecosystem. I thought it was great that we had the opportunity to see different types of spray truck set-ups in action; in fact, I would have liked a little more time to spend observing each of them, and asking questions. Even though I have my own sprayer, I am curious how others are doing it, and there's no substitute for seeing it in person. I'd be interested in knowing what different methods people are using to keep their tea aerated in their tanks in their trucks. (I believe Giovanni had a compressor with a hose?) Do you need to worry about too many bubbles, or too small or too large of bubbles? I have a small truck with a 100-gal. tank, so I don't want anything very large or expensive. Thank you very much, Leon, for insisting we clean out my brewer before I left. On my way back, my clutch master cylinder went out with no warning, on a very busy road, in rush hour traffic. I wasn't even able to pull my truck off to the side of the road, and had to wait for a tow truck to tow my truck and trailer to a shop in Redmond. A dreadful ending to a wonderful day! And I wasn't able to get my brewer home for a couple of days. Finally, I want to thank Seaneen for the support and encouragement she has given me the past several months, and for taking the time to answer my numerous questions. Autumn Hi folks, I just got back from the first International Compost Tea Council education session with Dr. Elaine and many of the ICTC board members and many of you on this list. There were about 70 folks and from all over.... California, Alaska, Oregon, Canada, Washington...a great bunch of people. It was great to meet those of you who are on this list. What fun to be able to put a face to a name. Kirk L, incidentally, has a beard. ): It was terrific to see all the different brewers.... KIS, BOBs, Growing Solution, Worm Gold. And there were several commercial spay trucks. And, of course, Dr. Elaine and Hendrikus! Always terrific. We had two mornings of lectures and q and a and in the afternoon, we looked at brewers, sprayers and continued the discussions outside. For those who are still suspicious about the ICTC, get over your fears. THIS WAS A TERRIFIC EDUCATIONAL WEEKEND AND THE ICTC BOARD MEMBERS DID AN OUTSTANDING JOB ORGANIZING AND RUNNING THE EVENT. They put a lot of time and energy into it and it showed. There is no question that if you support the idea of AACT, you should join and support the educational efforts of the group. Do it now! http://www.intlctc.org/ It is a worthwhile effort. All of us at the seminars learned a tremendous amount. I sure hope the ICTC will l do it again, perhaps in other parts of the country. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE SESSIONS, THE ENTIRE EVENT WAS VIDEO TAPED AND A CD OF IT WILL BE AVAILABLE SOON. AGAIN, CONTACT THE ICTC FOR MORE INFO.... Anyone else there care to comment? Cheers, Jeff Folks, you really can believe Jeff's superlatives. It *was* wonderful: very well organized, highly educational/informative, and lots of fun. I'm happy to share my own experience of the Saturday session as seen through the eyes of a home (strictly organic) gardener and recent CT convert. Jeff didn't mention his own contribution to the Saturday session (the only one I attended) so please let me tell you that it was terrific. Jeff has all the enthusiasm, energy and physical pyrotechnics of a four-year old (that's a COMPLIMENT, Jeff!) as well as a non-stop sense of humor. His story of his own conversion from dedicated user of that familiar Fertilizer-in-a-Green-and-Yellow-Box to sincere CT advocate segued smooothly into a general, not-too-technical-for-us-beginners description of what's going on in the soil food web. His basic presentation of what's happening down there at the micro level really helped me understand why we have to be feeding the little critters, who in turn will feed the plants. Dr. Elaine and Leon Hussey, president of ICTC, were on the sidelines during his presentation, stepping in from time to clarify and expand, then on we went with more of Jeff's enthusiastic presentation of 3-D electron microscope views of paramecia, nematodes and all those other tiny things we all grew up believing were flat. Hendrikus Schraven showed us some incredible pictures of remediation work his landscaping company has done, successfully creating luxuriant gardens and lawns on a previously water-logged site. Dr. Elaine took us through the basic chemistry of how the components of a compost pile are transformed via several microbiological interventions into nutrients that can then be brewed, grown and multiplied into a compost tea full of living bacteria, fungi, beneficial nematodes and other tiny creatures. Her fascinating presentation helped me understand how the nitrogen in a green leaf tossed into the compost pile comes to be nitrogen accessible to the growing tip of a new plant's rootlet. She took lots of time to explain the *how* and *why* of keeping a compost tea aerobic in order to allow the beneficial bacteria to out compete (and thus eliminate) whatever human pathogens might be present in the original compost. This safety issue is, of course, central to helping gardeners, farmers and The Powers That Be understand how _properly brewed_ CT is absolutely safe for human food crops, as well as incredibly beneficial to crops. After lunch we moved to an outdoor area where several CT brewers had been set up by their manufacturers. We were able to meet the various brewers and watch them in action, ask questions of their designers, sniff compost, peer into microscopes and learn from the many informative conversations going on among the attendees. Finally Elaine wrapped the session up with a discussion of the carbon : nitrogen requirements of various types of plants, spraying schedules for various crops, and a general Q & A for those of us who were not already experiencing brain cramps. It was a wonderful day. My enthusiastic thanks to ICTC for all the hard work that went in to organizing it, and for making it available to a wide audience. No CT user should miss the opportunity to attend a similar ICTC educational event when one presents itself within driving distance. Irene, outside Eatonville, WA where the CT'd zucchini leaves doubled in size while I was attending the ICTC training session... Both Jeff and Irene covered what the ICTC session was all about very well. But if I may add, I attended the all day session on Saturday and left with the words: Exciting, Fascinating, Awesome, Inspiring, ... and other such words running around in my head during my 2 hour drive back home. (Jeff, I even stopped at the Ellensburg Safeway before getting home just to buy several boxes of Baby Oatmeal. I wanted to make some of my own fungi cultures to show off. Jeff, I was ready to package you up along with your enthusiasm and inspiring ability to express the science of all of this in layman terms and smuggle you home with me. I need you here in Eastern Washington to explain to these folks that there IS a difference between the chemical components of NPK and soil biology as well as what years of chems is doing to our farmland. Your enthusiasm was excellent and your humor appreciated. It was also great to be able to put a face to all the emails. Elaine, thank you too, so very much. Your scientific explanations were set well toward the layman, but yet deep enough to inspire the science dabbler. Learning from reading your emails is one thing, but listening to you speak and having the ability to talk with you and ask questions face to face added a whole different layer to the learning. You keep your audience enthused and interested - it was great to have had the honor to attend. Next time I'm roping my neighbors, and father, into coming -my pop being my biggest critic when it comes to the soil science vs. chemical applications. Jeff, I had always jokingly called my dad the 'Father of MiracleGrow' - now I guess I need a new name for him since your explanation of the history of the product... grin. But that's okay; there are other chemicals over there in his garden shed to work off of... grin. Leon, and the other ICTC folks who worked hard to make this happen, thank you very much for the hospitality and hard work in setting this up. The format of the session could not have been better. Leon, you kept joking about it being 'seat of pants', but if I were to go again, the format, in my opinion, should not change one bit. Jeff gave the introduction in easy to understand terms, Elaine interjected where more science was needed, and then she followed Jeff with more in-depth science - which too, was easy to understand and relate with. Each of you helped the other, it was great. The questions and comments added in from the audience were also informative and helpful. Hendrikus, thank you too for sharing your experiences and knowledge. The work you are doing is awe-inspiring to all of us, I am sure. Bob, it was great to finally meet you in person as well. A pleasure indeed! I have always had a heart for science and now to be able to mix my two favorite 'hobbies', science and farming, only add to the experience! As a lot of you have had to listen to me rant about my thoughts on how AACT could/should be best promoted, cultivated and gained in the ol' criticized world the 'stuff' - I think I was able to see, first hand, one of the best means of its promotion. The next time this is offered, I'm not only coming myself, but bringing some of the critics near me. I would encourage others to do the same. These folks explain this better than I could have ever imagined! Thank you ICTC, SoilFoodWeb, Brewers and each of the speakers! It was an awesome day. Mike Bosko A huge THANK YOU to you as well Jeff! It was a wonderful weekend and a fantastic event! Thank you again for all of your support. Thank you as well to all of those who chose to support and participate last weekend. We could not have done it without all of you!!!! Elaine and Hendrikus a huge THANK YOU to the both for a terrific Friday program. Great success and hope to do it again soon..... :) Seaneen Hummel Director of Compost Tea Spraying services - Creative Gardens, Inc. Founder & VP, International Compost Tea Council www.intlctc.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Nutrional differences Here is a link to a NY Times article on nutritional differences between organics and conventional It makes our old pal Alex Avery look pretty bad (he he) check it out http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/16/dining/16WELL.html David Conner 3. Upcoming SFI and SSI seminars SFI has several workshops coming up, geared to consultants as well as small producers. To get details on our workshops and others that Elaine is doing around the country, go to www.soilfoodweb.com . Here is a list of the workshops schedule for 2003. October 4 - 6 Soil Biology and Soil Chemistry October 20 - 21 Hands-on Composting October 21 - 22 Hands-on Compost Tea The advisor's training will be in November, but to be considered for the advisor's training, we have to have a consulting relationship with you. Not only do you have to have the Soil Biology and Chemistry training behind you, the Compost and/or Compost Tea training sessions, AND you have to be sending in samples and ASKING QUESTIONS about them. We have to feel that you are working with us at SFI, doing your best to get the information out to growers, gardeners, kids, and the public in general, and getting your hands into the soil and into understanding the critters, how they work. So, those of you who want to do that training, please realize you have to be pro-active about showing us you want to participate! --------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. MORE GROWER EXPERIENCES I've been making compost tea for the fruit club with the Bob-O-Lator. I asked the members how many gallons they want next week. I've received some answers ... "Hi Judy...we'd like 10gal of tea on the 6th. I sprayed the currant bushes with compost tea this spring and for the first time in 5plus years they weren't defoliated by currant worms. Previously we had used Bt." "Hi Judi, I would like 40 Gallons of your magical brew. Denny" "Would love some CT...enough to spray 3 tiny apple trees..each 3 ft tall with one branch. Plus about 2 more gallons to dilute for maintenance of some new buddlea hedge." "I need more compost tea. The leaves on my apple tree look waxed. I took 4 gallons before. Can I have 20? No, better make that 40 or 50." "I'd like 10 gallons this time. My hostas are 3 times their size." Our fruit club is growing. We've added five members this month because of the compost tea. Members are picking up their tea in gallon jugs, 5-gallon pails, and 55 gallon drums. It's fun to see them outside of meetings as it gives us more time to chat. Tea time has become a mini social event. Judi 4. More Compost Tea Brewing Manual Update Pages 32 to 38 of the CTBM. We try to get all the compost tea makers to participate in the Compost Tea Grant, but some don't respond no matter what. Of course, I can't communicate with Growing Solutions (or employees, family or associates), as I've been threatened that there will be legal action taken if I do. So I don't. Ed Neff of Soil Soup has told me in no uncertain terms that they test only with BBC Labs. If so, where's the data? So, instead of working with the companies that make those machines, we work with people who own their machines. So much for either Growing Solutions or Soil Soup being interested in "unity" in the compost tea world. If either Ed Neff or Mike Alms would like to start testing what their teas actually contain, Soil Foodweb Inc would run their samples just as we run samples for anyone else. I have never cut them off, or said they couldn't work with us. They are the ones that won't maintain the community of people working on common goals in the compost tea world. Here's the section from the tea manual ---- ------------------------------------ Comparison of Different Commercial Brewers The Sustainable Studies Institute Tea Grant, 2002 In the tea grant sponsored by the Sustainable Studies Institute, growers made tea using the machines they bought, with nutrient starters sold by the companies or prepared by the grower, using their own choice of composts. Composts chosen for use were widely variable, temperature, water source, and cleaning conditions were widely variable, and yet the teas produced were quite similar. Of course, assessing total and active bacteria and total and active fungi does not take into account species diversity per se, so the level of resolution assessed means only one kind of variation was assessed. But good tea machines resulted in good organism numbers, regardless of conditions, while poor tea machines rarely produced decent organism numbers. This is opposite claims by some tea machine makers that because compost, water, food resources and so forth are so different from tea brew to tea brew that the teas are so variable that consistent data cannot be obtained. Clearly, tea contains reasonably the same bacterial and fungal biomass and same levels of activity if decent compost and recipes are made. Only tea machine makers trying to hide the fact that their machine cannot make a consistently decent result would use arguments that testing is not possible because of variation from tea brew to tea brew. . In the following study, teas were made according to the manufacturer's directions. In some instances, the teas were made at SFI by SFI technicians (maintained at 72 F, using de-gassed Corvallis city water), but in most cases, the teas were made by growers, using the instructions received from the tea machine manufacturer, and sent overnight mail to SFI Corvallis, or New York. Growers were requested to make their composts from 50% thermal compost and 50% vermicompost. The compost was mixed well before use, the amounts needed for each machine measured, placed in the unit, with the same amount of molasses and soluble kelp per volume of water added to each machine. Each machine was run for the specified time. One to three sub-samples of tea were removed from the machine, typically via whatever method was available to move tea from the tea-making machine into the spray tank of a sprayer. If there was no discharge pump, this is noted. Samples were sent to the lab by overnight mail in plastic water containers filled a third to a half full. Each sample was assessed for total and active bacteria, total and active fungi, protozoa, and nematodes at SFI. Results. The most notable finding is that despite widely different sources of compost, and different machine designs, the resulting teas were reasonably uniform with respect to achieving minimal levels of bacterial and fungal activity and biomass. Some manufacturers have suggested that there is so much variation from tea to tea that testing is meaningless, but generally what that means is the tea maker is trying to disguise an inferior machine. If the machine does not achieve the same minimum levels of organisms from tea brew to tea brew when using similar compost, ingredients, and climate conditions, then there is quite likely something wrong with the machine. Growers need to recognize that brew-to-brew differences based on different composts, different food additives, and different weather conditions are possible, but if the compost has decent organism levels, similar food resources are added, and temperatures are reasonably warm, the tea will always have organism numbers above the minimum levels on the desired range of the SFI test. Some machines routinely have much higher fungal or bacterial biomass than others and there are machines that ALWAYS give higher then the minimal range on the SFI test. This is excellent, and quite likely a true difference in the ability of the machine to extract organisms from the compost. In several instances we have documented that the reasons some machines cannot extract organisms from the compost are: 1. Compost compacts in the basket, making water movement impossible through the compost. Without water movement through the compost, organisms cannot be extracted from the compost and organisms will be lacking in the tea. 2. When water cannot move through the compost, it is quite likely that the compost will become anaerobic during the brew cycle. Visit trade shows where the machines are running. Put your hand in the compost in a machine to see if water is actively moving through the compost. But be careful - some manufacturers have been known to use compost with a higher-than-normal amount of chunky material to make it seems like the machine has good water flow, when in fact, using non-woody compost, the material compacts. Check in-use machines to determine flow-through in the compost. 3. Bio-film build-up occurs. Usually build-up within one brew cycle is not a problem, except where water flow does not occur. Cleaning then becomes an important factor. Some machines are difficult to clean, and when considering different machines, consider cleaning ease. The numbers of samples in each assessment below are given in the table. Some growers sent in one tea, some sent in three, a few sent in more teas. Results are listed by machine type and volume. In some cases, new machines have come on the market, but the only testing has been with the manufacturer. The tea grant will be repeated in 2003, and the results should be available next year. Note the differentiation into compost tea and bacterial tea. If only bacteria grow well in the tea, and fungi, protozoa and nematodes do not appear in at least minimal amounts in the tea, then the tea cannot be called a compost tea. Table 7. Tea Quality Assessed by the SSI Tea Grant Study. Growers sent in compost teas from different machines, using their own or manufacturer supplied compost, the manufacturer's nutrient starting mix, or molasses and kelp, in conditions in the field through the summer of 2002. Data from SFI research is included as well. While some range of response is present, in general the data by machine are not widely different. In general, when variability is greater than the mean, the compost tea machine has trouble making consistent tea. Active Bacteria (µg/ml) Total Bacteria(µg/ml) Active Fungi(µg/ml) Total Fungi(µg/ml) Desired Ranges for suppressive teas* 10 - 150 150 - 300 2 - 10 2 -20 Compost Tea Brewers^ Mean SD Mean SD Mean SD Mean SD Earth Tea Brewer500 gal (8 teas)500 gal (2001-1tea)100 gal (6 teas) 52735168 468ND118 1322467004518 3841ND1054 57.6232.24 38.5ND1.36 109308.46 57.0ND3.33 Simplici-Tea KIS5 gal (10 teas) 141 93 3730 2755 6.88 2.63 11.8 3.12 EarthWorks85 gal (9 teas) 326 219 10210 5084 1.70 1.52 2.62 3.45 Clarke 60 gal (12 teas)100 gal (3 teas) 70.352.4 66.622.9 25191306 2231363 1.883.55 1.131.49 3.627.63 2.260.83 Alaska Giant1 gal (3 teas)5 gal (2 teas) 35.852.4 22.853.3 52542528 40221312 1.030.34 0.570.46 5.792.47 4.431.07 Compara50 gal (200 L) (3 teas) 89.1 19.7 2115 715 2.79 1.37 5.72 1.73 Bacterial Tea Brewers^ SoilSoup30 gal (6 teas)aNylon Bag (3 teas) 40.2101 23.113.3 17691500 947210 0.031.23 0.031.26 0.253.01 0.191.88 Growing Solutions25 gal (4 teas)100 gal (12 teas)500 gal (12 teas)b Schraven (1 tea) 34618460.670.4 54526834.7 415626444106209 424618615579 0.530.881.021.57 0.851.081.01 0.892.305.362.21 1.412.807.75 *Based on work comparing teas that are not suppressive with teas that are suppressive ^Based on results that show that bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes in the compost are successfully and routinely extracted into the tea. On rare instances bacterial tea can put enough bacteria on leaf surfaces to use up food and prevent disease growth. aNylon Bag - set of brews done at SFI using a nylon bag instead of the fabric bag sold by SoilSoup. bThe Schraven method of running the GSI System involves different foods, changing the aerator in the basket and altering the basket arrangement when used in the larger machines. Clearly, things can be done to improve this bacterial tea machine so it COULD make decent compost tea. A great deal of assessment goes into determining whether a tea machine in fact can extract decent levels of bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes from the compost and grow the organisms in the tea during the 24 hour aerobic brewing process. For example, Bruce Elliott who makes the Earth Tea Brewer machines has worked with SFI since he started building tea makers in 1999. He has invested a great deal of effort in determining the best recipe of foods to grow fungi in his tea maker. In addition, EPM has just developed a 22 gal tea machine, and so far, is getting as good organism numbers in the tea as their other tea brewers. Simplici-Tea makes the KIS brewers, and has recently developed a 30 gal machine. This too is getting as good organisms in the tea as the 5 gal machine. EarthWorks make 35 and 85 gal machines and are working on a new formulation of their nutrient mixes for this summer. On occasion, the foods added this last summer resulted in too much oxygen use in the teas, especially as the temperatures became warmer and warmer. During the summer, the amount of foods added should decrease as the temperatures increase. Generally, food should reduce by 2-fold for each 10 degree in temperature rise. Contact Information for Compost Tea machines: Alaska Giant, John Evans 10-to-100 gal. brewers, 4 gal and 1 gal Soil Stimulant brewer kits P.O. Box 1072 Palmer, Alaska 99645 Tel: (907) 746-4781 FAX: (907) 746-4781 E-mail: alaskabounty@alaskagiant.com Website: www.alaskagiant.com Bob's Bitti, Bob-O-Later, Bob Norsen 5-to-30 gal, and 30-to-300 gal machines (variable volumes) 6515 W Marginal Way Seattle, Washington 98106 Tel: (206) 571-4671 FAX: (206) 767-2026 E-mail: bob@bnbrew.com Charlie Clarke/James Sotillo Contact JAMSOT@aol.com Compara Xtraktor, Gerben Schrouten Air pump, tea diffuser, 50 gal., 250 gal., 500 gal. Postbus 110, 2394 ZG HAZERSWOUDE Rd. Netherlands 1221 JR Tel: 31 71 34 19873 E-mail: office@compara.nl.com Website: www.compara.nl/engels.shtml Compost Solutions 1000 L machines Coffs Harbour, New South Wales, Australia Contact: Lee Beckett E-mail: lbeckett@bigpond.com Ecology Enterprises, Dennis Hronek Brewer can extract up to 24,000 gallons of high microbe product per day. Patent pending. P.O. Box 546 Windsor, Colorado Tel: (970) 686-0669 Tel: (509) 787-2900 E-mail: info@ecology-enterprise.com Tel: (541) 948-2692 EcoVit Tea-riffic Brewers, Laura Sabourin 17, 100, 300 gal, custom-made RR #1 St. Catharines Ontario, Canada L2R 6P7 Tel: (905) 562-0151 FAX: (905) 562-0152 E-mail: EcoVit@ragdolls.net Website: www.ecovit.ca EPM Earth Tea Brewers. Bruce Elliott All tea pump types, air stones and venture; 22, 100, 500 gal. Sprayers, worm bins P.O. Box 1295 Cottage Grove, Oregon 97425 Tel: (541) 767-2747 FAX: (541) 767-2744 E-mail: sales@fish-world.com Website: www.composttea.com Simplici-tea, Keep It Simple Brewers, Leon Hussey Air pump tea maker, 5, 30 gal. 12323 180th Ave. NE Redmond, Washington 98052 Tel: (425) 558-0990 FAX: (425) 558-3695 E-mail: kis@simplici-tea.com Website: www. simplici-tea.com The Compost Tea Company Air pump tea maker, 200 L and larger sizes 982 Kaipaki Road, RD 3, Cambridge, New Zealand +64 7 827 6682 FAX +64 7 827 3787 cherryle.prew@extra.co.nz Website: www.compost-tea.co.nz WormGold Extractors, George Hahn and Carole Eddington Air pump tea maker, 100, 500 gal. P.O. Box 95 Cardiff by the Sea, California 92007 Tel: (760) 942-6086 FAX: (619) 942-5356 E-mail: geohahn1@juno.com Website: www.wormgold.com In the cases where we have data, it is interesting to compare the tea data with the compost from which the tea was made. If nematode, protozoa or fungal biomass were low in the compost that often explains low biomass or numbers in the tea. Remember, however, that bacteria may increase by 100 to 500 times the original number during a brewing cycle, while fungi may only increase by 5 to 10 times. Protozoa and nematodes DO NOT increase in numbers in a tea cycle. Their life cycles are longer than the duration of a compost tea brew cycle. If the organisms are present in the compost, but not present, or low, in the tea, then the reason for the lack of those organisms needs to be determined: 1. Were the organisms extracted? If neither active nor total fungi or active or total bacteria are present, there's a good indication that extraction is the problem. Is the mesh on the basket, bag or compost container a problem? Neither active nor total fungi can be a result. 2. Were they killed by too much pressure going through a pump? No organisms at all present. 3. Did something in the tea kill them? Minimal amounts of total bacteria and total fungi (extraction occurred), but no active biomass. 4. Did they lack food? Did they lack a surface to grow on? No active fungi, minimal layers of total fungi. 5. Did the tea drop into limited oxygen or anaerobic conditions? Low active and low total fungi, but what is seen is covered with bacteria that do not stain with the activity stain. ---------------------------- More next month! - ERI --------------090200000008090705040901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit July 2003 SFI E-Zine

Table of Contents


        1.    Feedback from the ICTC Seminar
        2.    Nutritional differences between organics and conventional
        3.    Upcoming SFI and SSI seminars
        4.    More Grower Experiences
        5.    More Compost Tea Brewing Manual Update
---------------------------------

I’m on-time with this one!  

I leave for New Zealand and then Australia tomorrow, so I have to get this out!

The ICTC Seminar a week ago was a huge success.  Quite a few people wrote into the compost_tea@yahoogroups.com list serve about it, and I’ve put just a couple of their e-mails below.  

Next month I’ll spend some time on soil considerations.  Where are we in the northern and southern hemispheres on the annual cycle, and what’s the “calendar” of taking soil samples, applying sustainable inputs, and so forth for a couple different systems.

Anyone have a favorite system they want to have me focus on?

ERI

1.  Feedback on the International Compost Tea Council Seminar in July


Hello-
I, too, wish to thank the board of the ICTC for their hard work in setting
up this excellent conference. I attended the Fri. session and found
Elaine's presentation to be clear, entertaining, and very informative, as
always, and Hendrickus Shraven's slide presentation was also excellent, as
it showed a wide range of examples of projects where AACT can be useful in
restoring health to an ecosystem.

I thought it was great that we had the opportunity to see different types
of spray truck set-ups in action; in fact, I would have liked a little more
time to spend observing each of them, and asking questions. Even though I
have my own sprayer, I am curious how others are doing it, and there's no
substitute for seeing it in person. I'd be interested in knowing what
different methods people are using to keep their tea aerated in their tanks
in their trucks. (I believe Giovanni had a compressor with a hose?) Do you
need to worry about too many bubbles, or too small or too large of bubbles?
I have a small truck with a 100-gal. tank, so I don't want anything very
large or expensive.

Thank you very much, Leon, for insisting we clean out my brewer before I
left. On my way back, my clutch master cylinder went out with no warning,
on a very busy road, in rush hour traffic. I wasn't even able to pull my
truck off to the side of the road, and had to wait for a tow truck to tow
my truck and trailer to a shop in Redmond. A dreadful ending to a wonderful
day! And I wasn't able to get my brewer home for a couple of days.

Finally, I want to thank Seaneen for the support and encouragement she has
given me the past several months, and for taking the time to answer my
numerous questions.      Autumn


Hi folks,

I just got back from the first International Compost Tea Council education session with Dr. Elaine and many of the ICTC board members and many of you on this list. There were about 70 folks and from all over.... California, Alaska, Oregon, Canada, Washington...a great bunch of people. It was great to meet those of you who are on this list. What fun to be able to put a face to a name. Kirk L, incidentally, has a beard. ):
 
It was terrific to see all the different brewers.... KIS, BOBs, Growing Solution, Worm Gold. And there were several commercial spay trucks.
 
And, of course, Dr. Elaine and Hendrikus! Always terrific. We had two mornings of lectures and q and a and in the afternoon, we looked at brewers, sprayers and continued the discussions outside.
 
For those who are still suspicious about the ICTC, get over your fears. THIS WAS A TERRIFIC EDUCATIONAL WEEKEND AND THE ICTC BOARD MEMBERS DID AN OUTSTANDING JOB ORGANIZING AND RUNNING THE EVENT. They put a lot of time and energy into it and it showed. There is no question that if you support the idea of AACT, you should join and support the educational efforts of the group. Do it now! http://www.intlctc.org/ It is a worthwhile effort. All of us at the seminars learned a tremendous amount.
 
I sure hope the ICTC will l do it again, perhaps in other parts of the country. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE SESSIONS, THE ENTIRE EVENT WAS VIDEO TAPED AND A CD OF IT WILL BE AVAILABLE SOON. AGAIN, CONTACT THE ICTC FOR MORE INFO....
 
Anyone else there care to comment?
 
Cheers,
 
Jeff

Folks, you really can believe Jeff's superlatives. It *was*
wonderful: very well organized, highly educational/informative, and
lots of fun. I'm happy to share my own experience of the Saturday
session as seen through the eyes of a home (strictly organic)
gardener and recent CT convert.

Jeff didn't mention his own contribution to the Saturday session (the
only one I attended) so please let me tell you that it was terrific.
Jeff has all the enthusiasm, energy and physical pyrotechnics of a
four-year old (that's a COMPLIMENT, Jeff!) as well as a non-stop
sense of humor.

His story of his own conversion from dedicated user of that familiar
Fertilizer-in-a-Green-and-Yellow-Box to sincere CT advocate segued
smooothly into a general, not-too-technical-for-us-beginners
description of what's going on in the soil food web. His basic
presentation of what's happening down there at the micro level really
helped me understand why we have to be feeding the little critters,
who in turn will feed the plants.

Dr. Elaine and Leon Hussey, president of ICTC, were on the sidelines
during his presentation, stepping in from time to clarify and expand,
then on we went with more of Jeff's enthusiastic presentation of 3-D
electron microscope views of paramecia, nematodes and all those other
tiny things we all grew up believing were flat.

Hendrikus Schraven showed us some incredible pictures of
remediation work his landscaping company has done, successfully
creating luxuriant gardens and lawns on a previously water-logged
site.

Dr. Elaine took us through the basic chemistry of how the components
of a compost pile are transformed via several microbiological
interventions into nutrients that can then be brewed, grown and
multiplied into a compost tea full of living bacteria, fungi,
beneficial nematodes and other tiny creatures. Her fascinating
presentation helped me understand how the nitrogen in a green leaf
tossed into the compost pile comes to be nitrogen accessible to the
growing tip of a new plant's rootlet.

She took lots of time to explain the *how* and *why* of keeping a
compost tea aerobic in order to allow the beneficial bacteria to
out compete (and thus eliminate) whatever human pathogens might be
present in the original compost. This safety issue is, of course,
central to helping gardeners, farmers and The Powers That Be
understand how _properly brewed_ CT is absolutely safe for human food
crops, as well as incredibly beneficial to crops.

After lunch we moved to an outdoor area where several CT brewers had
been set up by their manufacturers. We were able to meet the various
brewers and watch them in action, ask questions of their designers,
sniff compost, peer into microscopes and learn from the many
informative conversations going on among the attendees.

Finally Elaine wrapped the session up with a discussion of the carbon
: nitrogen requirements of various types of plants, spraying
schedules for various crops, and a general Q & A for those of us who
were not already experiencing brain cramps.

It was a wonderful day. My enthusiastic thanks to ICTC for all the
hard work that went in to organizing it, and for making it available
to a wide audience. No CT user should miss the opportunity to attend
a similar ICTC educational event when one presents itself within
driving distance.

Irene, outside Eatonville, WA where the CT'd zucchini leaves doubled
in size while I was attending the ICTC training session...


Both Jeff and Irene covered what the ICTC session was all about very well.  But if I may add, I attended the all day session on Saturday and left with the words: Exciting, Fascinating, Awesome, Inspiring, … and other such words running around in my head during my 2 hour drive back home.  (Jeff, I even stopped at the Ellensburg Safeway before getting home just to buy several boxes of Baby Oatmeal.  I wanted to make some of my own fungi cultures to show off.
Jeff, I was ready to package you up along with your enthusiasm and inspiring ability to express the science of all of this in layman terms and smuggle you home with me.  I need you here in Eastern Washington to explain to these folks that there IS a difference between the chemical components of NPK and soil biology as well as what years of chems is doing to our farmland.  Your enthusiasm was excellent and your humor appreciated.  It was also great to be able to put a face to all the emails.
Elaine, thank you too, so very much.  Your scientific explanations were set well toward the layman, but yet deep enough to inspire the science dabbler.  Learning from reading your emails is one thing, but listening to you speak and having the ability to talk with you and ask questions face to face added a whole different layer to the learning.  You keep your audience enthused and interested – it was great to have had the honor to attend.
Next time I’m roping my neighbors, and father, into coming -my pop being my biggest critic when it comes to the soil science vs. chemical applications.  Jeff, I had always jokingly called my dad the ‘Father of MiracleGrow’ – now I guess I need a new name for him since your explanation of the history of the product… grin.  But that’s okay; there are other chemicals over there in his garden shed to work off of… grin.
Leon, and the other ICTC folks who worked hard to make this happen, thank you very much for the hospitality and hard work in setting this up.  The format of the session could not have been better.  Leon, you kept joking about it being ‘seat of pants’, but if I were to go again, the format, in my opinion, should not change one bit.  Jeff gave the introduction in easy to understand terms, Elaine interjected where more science was needed, and then she followed Jeff with more in-depth science – which too, was easy to understand and relate with.  Each of you helped the other, it was great.  The questions and comments added in from the audience were also informative and helpful.
Hendrikus, thank you too for sharing your experiences and knowledge. The work you are doing is awe-inspiring to all of us, I am sure.
Bob, it was great to finally meet you in person as well.  A pleasure indeed!
I have always had a heart for science and now to be able to mix my two favorite ‘hobbies’, science and farming, only add to the experience!  As a lot of you have had to listen to me rant about my thoughts on how AACT could/should be best promoted, cultivated and gained in the ol’ criticized world the ‘stuff’ – I think I was able to see, first hand, one of the best means of its promotion.  The next time this is offered, I’m not only coming myself, but bringing some of the critics near me.  I would encourage others to do the same.  These folks explain this better than I could have ever imagined!
Thank you ICTC, SoilFoodWeb, Brewers and each of the speakers!  It was an awesome day.
 Mike Bosko

A huge THANK YOU to you as well Jeff!  It was a wonderful weekend and a fantastic event! Thank you again for all of your support.  Thank you as well to all of those who chose to support and participate last weekend.  We could not have done it without all of you!!!!       
Elaine and Hendrikus a huge THANK YOU to the both for a terrific Friday program.  Great success and hope to do it again soon.....  :)

Seaneen Hummel
Director of Compost Tea Spraying services - Creative Gardens, Inc.
Founder & VP, International Compost Tea Council   www.intlctc.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.    Nutrional differences

Here is a link to a NY Times article on nutritional
differences between organics and conventional
It makes our old pal Alex Avery look pretty bad (he he)
check it out
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/16/dining/16WELL.html

David Conner

3.    Upcoming SFI and SSI seminars

SFI has several workshops coming up, geared to consultants as well as small producers.
To get details on our workshops and others that Elaine is doing around the country, go to www.soilfoodweb.com .

Here is a list of the workshops schedule for 2003.

October 4 – 6         Soil Biology and Soil Chemistry
October 20 – 21     Hands-on Composting
October 21 – 22     Hands-on Compost Tea

The advisor’s training will be in November, but to be considered for the advisor’s training, we have to have a consulting relationship with you.  Not only do you have to have the Soil Biology and Chemistry training behind you, the Compost and/or Compost Tea training sessions, AND you have to be sending in samples and ASKING QUESTIONS about them.  We have to feel that you are working with us at SFI, doing your best to get the information out to growers, gardeners, kids, and the public in general, and getting your hands into the soil and into understanding the critters, how they work.  

So, those of you who want to do that training, please realize you have to be pro-active about showing us you want to participate!
---------------------------------------------------------------------

3.  MORE GROWER EXPERIENCES

I’ve been making compost tea for the fruit club with the Bob-O-Lator.  I asked the members how many gallons they want next week.  I’ve received some answers …

“Hi Judy...we'd like 10gal of tea on the 6th.  I sprayed the currant bushes with compost tea this spring and for the first time in 5plus years they weren't defoliated by currant worms.  Previously we had used Bt.”

“Hi Judi, I would like 40 Gallons of your magical brew.  Denny”  

“Would love some CT...enough to spray 3 tiny apple trees..each 3 ft tall with one branch. Plus about 2 more gallons to dilute for maintenance of some new buddlea hedge.”

“I need more compost tea.  The leaves on my apple tree look waxed.  I took 4 gallons before.  Can I have 20?  No, better make that 40 or 50.”

“I’d like 10 gallons this time.  My hostas are 3 times their size.”

Our fruit club is growing.  We’ve added five members this month because of the compost tea.  Members are picking up their tea in gallon jugs, 5-gallon pails, and 55 gallon drums.  It’s fun to see them outside of meetings as it gives us more time to chat.  Tea time has become a mini social event.

Judi



4. More Compost Tea Brewing Manual Update

Pages 32 to 38 of the CTBM.  

We try to get all the compost tea makers to participate in the Compost Tea Grant, but some don’t respond no matter what.  Of course, I can’t communicate with Growing Solutions (or employees, family or associates), as I’ve been threatened that there will be legal action taken if I do.  So I don’t.  

Ed Neff of Soil Soup has told me in no uncertain terms that they test only with BBC Labs.  If so, where’s the data?  

So, instead of working with the companies that make those machines, we work with people who own their machines.  So much for either Growing Solutions or Soil Soup being interested in “unity” in the compost tea world.  

If either Ed Neff or Mike Alms would like to start testing what their teas actually contain, Soil Foodweb Inc would run their samples just as we run samples for anyone else.  I have never cut them off, or said they couldn’t work with us.  They are the ones that won’t maintain the community of people working on common goals in the compost tea world.  

Here’s the section from the tea manual ----
------------------------------------
Comparison of Different Commercial Brewers

 The Sustainable Studies Institute Tea Grant, 2002

In the tea grant sponsored by the Sustainable Studies Institute, growers made tea using the machines they bought, with nutrient starters sold by the companies or prepared by the grower, using their own choice of composts.  Composts chosen for use were widely variable, temperature, water source, and cleaning conditions were widely variable, and yet the teas produced were quite similar.  Of course, assessing total and active bacteria and total and active fungi does not take into account species diversity per se, so the level of resolution assessed means only one kind of variation was assessed.  But good tea machines resulted in good organism numbers, regardless of conditions, while poor tea machines rarely produced decent organism numbers.   
This is opposite claims by some tea machine makers that because compost, water, food resources and so forth are so different from tea brew to tea brew that the teas are so variable that consistent data cannot be obtained.  Clearly, tea contains reasonably the same bacterial and fungal biomass and same levels of activity if decent compost and recipes are made.  Only tea machine makers trying to hide the fact that their machine cannot make a consistently decent result would use arguments that testing is not possible because of variation from tea brew to tea brew.  .
In the following study, teas were made according to the manufacturer’s directions.  In some instances, the teas were made at SFI by SFI technicians (maintained at 72 F, using de-gassed Corvallis city water), but in most cases, the teas were made by growers, using the instructions received from the tea machine manufacturer, and sent overnight mail to SFI Corvallis, or New York.  Growers were requested to make their composts from 50% thermal compost and 50% vermicompost.  The compost was mixed well before use, the amounts needed for each machine measured, placed in the unit, with the same amount of molasses and soluble kelp per volume of water added to each machine.  Each machine was run for the specified time.
One to three sub-samples of tea were removed from the machine, typically via whatever method was available to move tea from the tea-making machine into the spray tank of a sprayer. If there was no discharge pump, this is noted.  Samples were sent to the lab by overnight mail in plastic water containers filled a third to a half full.  Each sample was assessed for total and active bacteria, total and active fungi, protozoa, and nematodes at SFI.

Results.  The most notable finding is that despite widely different sources of compost, and different machine designs, the resulting teas were reasonably uniform with respect to achieving minimal levels of bacterial and fungal activity and biomass.  Some manufacturers have suggested that there is so much variation from tea to tea that testing is meaningless, but generally what that means is the tea maker is trying to disguise an inferior machine.  If the machine does not achieve the same minimum levels of organisms from tea brew to tea brew when using similar compost, ingredients, and climate conditions, then there is quite likely something wrong with the machine.  
Growers need to recognize that brew-to-brew differences based on different composts, different food additives, and different weather conditions are possible, but if the compost has decent organism levels, similar food resources are added, and temperatures are reasonably warm, the tea will always have organism numbers above the minimum levels on the desired range of the SFI test.  
Some machines routinely have much higher fungal or bacterial biomass than others and there are machines that ALWAYS give higher then the minimal range on the SFI test.  This is excellent, and quite likely a true difference in the ability of the machine to extract organisms from the compost.  
In several instances we have documented that the reasons some machines cannot extract organisms from the compost are:
1.    Compost compacts in the basket, making water movement impossible through the compost.  Without water movement through the compost, organisms cannot be extracted from the compost and organisms will be lacking in the tea.  
2.    When water cannot move through the compost, it is quite likely that the compost will become anaerobic during the brew cycle.  Visit trade shows where the machines are running.  Put your hand in the compost in a machine to see if water is actively moving through the compost.  But be careful – some manufacturers have been known to use compost with a higher-than-normal amount of chunky material to make it seems like the machine has good water flow, when in fact, using non-woody compost, the material compacts.  Check in-use machines to determine flow-through in the compost.
3.    Bio-film build-up occurs.  Usually build-up within one brew cycle is not a problem, except where water flow does not occur.   Cleaning then becomes an important factor.  Some machines are difficult to clean, and when considering different machines, consider cleaning ease.

The numbers of samples in each assessment below are given in the table.  Some growers sent in one tea, some sent in three, a few sent in more teas.   Results are listed by machine type and volume.  In some cases, new machines have come on the market, but the only testing has been with the manufacturer.  The tea grant will be repeated in 2003, and the results should be available next year.  
    Note the differentiation into compost tea and bacterial tea.  If only bacteria grow well in the tea, and fungi, protozoa and nematodes do not appear in at least minimal amounts in the tea, then the tea cannot be called a compost tea.  


Table 7. Tea Quality Assessed by the SSI Tea Grant Study.  Growers sent in compost teas from different machines, using their own or manufacturer supplied compost, the manufacturer’s nutrient starting mix, or molasses and kelp, in conditions in the field through the summer of 2002.  Data from SFI research is included as well.  While some range of response is present, in general the data by machine are not widely different.  In general, when variability is greater than the mean, the compost tea machine has trouble making consistent tea.  
    Active Bacteria (µg/ml)    Total Bacteria(µg/ml)    Active Fungi(µg/ml)    Total Fungi(µg/ml)
Desired Ranges for suppressive teas*    10 - 150    150 - 300    2 – 10    2 -20
Compost Tea Brewers^    Mean    SD    Mean    SD    Mean    SD    Mean    SD
Earth Tea Brewer500 gal (8 teas)500 gal (2001–1tea)100 gal (6 teas)    52735168    468ND118    1322467004518    3841ND1054    57.6232.24    38.5ND1.36    109308.46    57.0ND3.33
Simplici-Tea KIS5 gal (10 teas)    141    93    3730    2755    6.88    2.63    11.8    3.12
EarthWorks85 gal (9 teas)    326    219    10210    5084    1.70    1.52    2.62    3.45
Clarke 60 gal (12 teas)100 gal (3 teas)    70.352.4    66.622.9    25191306    2231363    1.883.55    1.131.49    3.627.63    2.260.83
Alaska Giant1 gal (3 teas)5 gal (2 teas)    35.852.4    22.853.3    52542528    40221312    1.030.34    0.570.46    5.792.47    4.431.07
Compara50 gal (200 L) (3 teas)    89.1    19.7    2115    715    2.79    1.37    5.72    1.73
Bacterial Tea Brewers^                
SoilSoup30 gal (6 teas)aNylon Bag (3 teas)    40.2101    23.113.3    17691500    947210    0.031.23    0.031.26    0.253.01    0.191.88
Growing Solutions25 gal (4 teas)100 gal (12 teas)500 gal (12 teas)b Schraven (1 tea)    34618460.670.4    54526834.7    415626444106209    424618615579    0.530.881.021.57    0.851.081.01    0.892.305.362.21    1.412.807.75
*Based on work comparing teas that are not suppressive with teas that are suppressive
^Based on results that show that bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes in the compost are successfully and routinely extracted into the tea.  On rare instances bacterial tea can put enough bacteria on leaf surfaces to use up food and prevent disease growth.
aNylon Bag - set of brews done at SFI using a nylon bag instead of the fabric bag sold by SoilSoup.  
bThe Schraven method of running the GSI System involves different foods, changing the aerator in the basket and altering the basket arrangement when used in the larger machines. Clearly, things can be done to improve this bacterial tea machine so it COULD make decent compost tea.  

A great deal of assessment goes into determining whether a tea machine in fact can extract decent levels of bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes from the compost and grow the organisms in the tea during the 24 hour aerobic brewing process.   For example, Bruce Elliott who makes the Earth Tea Brewer machines has worked with SFI since he started building tea makers in 1999.  He has invested a great deal of effort in determining the best recipe of foods to grow fungi in his tea maker.  In addition, EPM has just developed a 22 gal tea machine, and so far, is getting as good organism numbers in the tea as their other tea brewers.  
    Simplici-Tea makes the KIS brewers, and has recently developed a 30 gal machine.  This too is getting as good organisms in the tea as the 5 gal machine.  
    EarthWorks make 35 and 85 gal machines and are working on a new formulation of their nutrient mixes for this summer.  On occasion, the foods added this last summer resulted in too much oxygen use in the teas, especially as the temperatures became warmer and warmer.  During the summer, the amount of foods added should decrease as the temperatures increase.  Generally, food should reduce by 2-fold for each 10 degree in temperature rise.
    
Contact Information for Compost Tea machines:

Alaska Giant, John Evans
10-to-100 gal. brewers, 4 gal and 1 gal Soil Stimulant brewer kits
P.O. Box 1072
Palmer, Alaska 99645  
Tel: (907) 746-4781                                            FAX: (907) 746-4781
E-mail: alaskabounty@alaskagiant.com    Website: www.alaskagiant.com

Bob’s Bitti, Bob-O-Later, Bob Norsen
5-to-30 gal, and 30-to-300 gal machines (variable volumes)
6515 W Marginal Way
Seattle, Washington 98106
Tel: (206) 571-4671                FAX: (206) 767-2026
E-mail: bob@bnbrew.com

Charlie Clarke/James Sotillo Contact JAMSOT@aol.com

Compara Xtraktor, Gerben Schrouten
Air pump, tea diffuser, 50 gal., 250 gal., 500 gal.
Postbus 110, 2394 ZG HAZERSWOUDE Rd.
Netherlands 1221 JR
Tel: 31 71 34 19873                                            
E-mail: office@compara.nl.com        Website: www.compara.nl/engels.shtml

Compost Solutions
1000 L machines
Coffs Harbour, New South Wales, Australia
Contact: Lee Beckett
E-mail:  lbeckett@bigpond.com

Ecology Enterprises, Dennis Hronek
Brewer can extract up to 24,000 gallons of high microbe product per day.  Patent pending.
P.O. Box 546
Windsor, Colorado
Tel: (970) 686-0669                Tel: (509) 787-2900
E-mail: info@ecology-enterprise.com                Tel: (541) 948-2692

EcoVit Tea-riffic Brewers, Laura Sabourin
17, 100, 300 gal, custom-made
RR #1 St. Catharines
Ontario, Canada L2R 6P7
Tel: (905) 562-0151                FAX: (905) 562-0152
E-mail: EcoVit@ragdolls.net            Website: www.ecovit.ca

EPM Earth Tea Brewers.  Bruce Elliott
All tea pump types, air stones and venture; 22, 100, 500 gal.
Sprayers, worm bins
P.O. Box 1295
Cottage Grove, Oregon  97425
Tel: (541) 767-2747                                             FAX: (541) 767-2744
E-mail: sales@fish-world.com        Website: www.composttea.com

Simplici-tea, Keep It Simple Brewers, Leon Hussey
Air pump tea maker, 5, 30 gal.
12323 180th Ave. NE
Redmond, Washington  98052
Tel: (425) 558-0990                                             FAX: (425) 558-3695
E-mail: kis@simplici-tea.com        Website: www. simplici-tea.com

The Compost Tea Company
Air pump tea maker, 200 L and larger sizes
982 Kaipaki Road, RD 3, Cambridge, New Zealand
+64 7 827 6682                     FAX +64 7 827 3787
cherryle.prew@extra.co.nz              Website:  www.compost-tea.co.nz   

WormGold Extractors, George Hahn and Carole Eddington
Air pump tea maker, 100, 500 gal.
P.O. Box 95
Cardiff by the Sea, California 92007   
Tel: (760) 942-6086                                             FAX: (619) 942-5356
E-mail: geohahn1@juno.com            Website: www.wormgold.com

In the cases where we have data, it is interesting to compare the tea data with the compost from which the tea was made.  If nematode, protozoa or fungal biomass were low in the compost that often explains low biomass or numbers in the tea. Remember, however, that bacteria may increase by 100 to 500 times the original number during a brewing cycle, while fungi may only increase by 5 to 10 times. Protozoa and nematodes DO NOT increase in numbers in a tea cycle. Their life cycles are longer than the duration of a compost tea brew cycle.
If the organisms are present in the compost, but not present, or low, in the tea, then the reason for the lack of those organisms needs to be determined:
1.    Were the organisms extracted?  If neither active nor total fungi or active or total bacteria are present, there’s a good indication that extraction is the problem.  Is the mesh on the basket, bag or compost container a problem?  Neither active nor total fungi can be a result.
2.    Were they killed by too much pressure going through a pump?  No organisms at all present.
3.    Did something in the tea kill them?  Minimal amounts of total bacteria and total fungi (extraction occurred), but no active biomass.
4.    Did they lack food?  Did they lack a surface to grow on?  No active fungi, minimal layers of total fungi.
5.    Did the tea drop into limited oxygen or anaerobic conditions?  Low active and low total fungi, but what is seen is covered with bacteria that do not stain with the activity stain.  

----------------------------

More next month! - ERI

--------------090200000008090705040901-- From - Wed Jul 30 12:36:05 2003 X-UIDL: 347352515 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id AB21A9970062; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:58:25 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 5D4271ECFF1; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56981ECE49 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE65A200B0; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mail.ncat.org (unknown [65.19.194.132]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B0B20088 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncat.org ([130.184.56.84]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h6UFjdd26060 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:45:39 -0600 Message-ID: <3F27E829.2030700@ncat.org> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:45:45 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [permaculture] Re: Permaculture contacts in or near Bombay India X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 0 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Spam-Prob: 0.014414 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347352515 Hi Debra - Your web page is beautiful and inspiring. A yurt is a nice abode. I can provide some contacts for India, but let me get back later with details. E.g., Pune, India.... which is about 4 hours away from Bombay/Mumbai by bus, is home to a half dozen institutes and organizations developing and promoting vermicomposting / vermiculture. See: [permaculture] Vermicompost + Cuba + India 30 May 2002 http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/permaculture/msg01124.html E.g., Near Bombay you have the state of Gujarat. The Bombay- Gujarat region is where Swadhyaya movement is centered. Led by teacher Pandurang Shrastri Athavale, the Swadhyaya movement is keen on plant-based pest control, vermicomposting, organic farming, alternative crops, water well recharge, and related green technologies. It promotes the ancient teachings of India -- the Vedas and Upanishads -- as a framework for modern living and re-integration following cultural displacement by European colonialism. It promotes villagers working and eating together on volunteer farms, also learning these green technologies -- Hindus, Muslims, and Christains working together -- who then take these appropriate technologies back to their villages and teach. When you consider that every one of the 19,000 villages in Gujarat has been visited by Swadhyaya, and you observe how it teaches, it becomes apparent that Swadhyaya is one of the most powerful appropriate technology dissimenation programs in the world. Organic organic farming and biodynamic farming in India is growing by leaps and bounds. The climate is amenable to polyculture food plants extraordinairre, and good quality cow dung is available for good quality BD preprations like BD 500, Cow Patty Pit (CPP), BD compost, vermicompost. Here is my biblio on Plants and Agriculture of India, which you may find helpful: Selected Bibliography on the Useful Plants and Agriculture of India http://www.ipa.net/~steved/plants-india.html Regards, Steve Diver steved@ncat.org ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Title: Permaculture contacts in or near Bombay India Ill be traveling to Bombay India the December to attend a friends wedding. Afterwards, Ill have a couple weeks to explore some of my interests. Does anyone know of permaculture / ecological building and or interesting organic garden projects in or near the Bombay area that we could visit? Thanks Much, Debra Amerson, MA Business Artist & Plantscape Designer Plantris Healthy Habitats With Plants & Art Voice 415.267.7606 Fax 415.488.1564 debra@plantris.com http://www.plantris.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Sat Aug 02 14:03:01 2003 X-UIDL: 347352705 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A2B998E023C; Sat, 02 Aug 2003 13:19:53 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C08791EE7BB; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 11:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5AF1F0281 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0002494A@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:32:14 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 21670 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:32:14 -0400 Received: from priv-edtnes61.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00024949@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:32:14 -0400 Received: from x4s0z7 ([207.6.52.152]) by priv-edtnes61.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030802143140.TUBJ20544.priv-edtnes61.telusplanet.net@x4s0z7> for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 08:31:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:31:47 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Rochelle Subject: let the soil work for us - now available online To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Spam-itxsa: -0.4 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-Spam-Prob: 0.014414 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347352705 “Let the soil work for us” by Elliott, E. T. and Coleman, D. C. the Ecological Bulletin article Joel Gruver has referenced more than once on SANET is now posted at http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/training/soil-article.html Would like to express my appreciation to David Coleman, Ecological Bulletin, Mary Gold (AFSIC) and Joel Gruver who each helped bring this to fruition. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rochelle Eisen COABC's Cyber-Help Coordinator Site 48 RR3 C7 Summerland BC Canada V0H 1Z0 250.494.7980 (p) 250.494.7985 (f) Cyber-Help For Organic Farmers http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa Subscribe to our Cyber-Help Newsletter mailto:cyber-help@jnweb.com ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Sun Sep 21 17:36:16 2003 X-UIDL: 347355875 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A8AC7AE0002C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:23:08 -0400 Received: by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix, from userid 1004) id EBA8C1EC656; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938701EC64B for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D9C2002E; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: compostteas@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from cornell.edu (cornell.edu [132.236.56.6]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1D82002E for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from KIWIBEAN.cornell.edu ([132.236.142.28]) by cornell.edu (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06209 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030921155838.02caec78@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: alh54@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:22:50 -0400 To: compostteas@lists.ibiblio.org From: allisonhornor Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [compostteas] E. coli and compost teas X-BeenThere: compostteas@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Compost Teas: 24 hour, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts" List-Id: Compost Teas: 24 hour, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============60557676996516752==" Sender: compostteas-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: compostteas-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Spam-itxsa: 2.8 X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347355875 --===============60557676996516752== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2487897==.ALT" --=====================_2487897==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just a note about Nafiisa Sobratee's message...E. coli are facultative aerobes, which means that they prefer to live in anaerobic environments, but can live and reproduce very well in aerobic environments. In fact, when scientists work with E. coli in the laboratory, we use aerobic conditions. There is some evidence and preliminary data that human pathogens are not a significant concern in compost tea if they are not present in the compost used to brew the tea, but there have been no articles published in peer reviewed scientific journals on this topic. Remember also that E. coli are soil microorganisms and live in many soil environments. There are many different strains of E. coli, some that are harmless to humans, some that are mildly pathogenic and some, like E. coli 0157:H7, that are extremely virulent to humans. I think the more important question to ask is: "are there virulent strains of E. coli in compost tea?" Several different researchers, including myself are working on this topic and at least one paper (from researchers at Soil Foodweb Incorporated) is in the review process and due to be published soon. It will be very interesting to see the results of this research. Currently the use of compost tea is not permitted under the new National Organic Program (USDA Organic) because of concerns about E. coli and other pathogens. Hopefully research in this area will define safe ways to brew and apply compost tea so that this emerging sustainable technology can continue to be used in agricultural systems. Allison Hornor ---------- Allison L. Hornor Graduate Student Department of Crop and Soil Science Cornell University 706 Bradfield Hall (607) 255-3226 ---------- --=====================_2487897==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a note about Nafiisa Sobratee's message...E. coli are facultative aerobes, which means that they prefer to live in anaerobic environments, but can live and reproduce very well in aerobic environments. In fact, when scientists work with E. coli in the laboratory, we use aerobic conditions. There is some evidence and preliminary data that human pathogens are not a significant concern in compost tea if they are not present in the compost used to brew the tea, but there have been no articles published in peer reviewed scientific journals on this topic. Remember also that E. coli are soil microorganisms and live in many soil environments. There are many different strains of E. coli, some that are harmless to humans, some that are mildly pathogenic and some, like E. coli 0157:H7, that are extremely virulent to humans. I think the more important question to ask is: "are there virulent strains of E. coli in compost tea?" Several different researchers, including myself are working on this topic and at least one paper (from researchers at Soil Foodweb Incorporated) is in the review process and due to be published soon. It will be very interesting to see the results of this research. Currently the use of compost tea is not permitted under the new National Organic Program (USDA Organic) because of concerns about E. coli and other pathogens. Hopefully research in this area will define safe ways to brew and apply compost tea so that this emerging sustainable technology can continue to be used in agricultural systems.

Allison Hornor


Allison= L. Hornor
Graduate Student
Department of Crop and Soil Science
Cornell University
706 Bradfield Hall
(607) 255-3226

--=====================_2487897==.ALT-- --===============60557676996516752== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ compostteas mailing list compostteas@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas --===============60557676996516752==-- From - Wed Nov 05 19:56:15 2003 X-UIDL: 347358771 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.14) id A7432DF90076; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:18:43 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E931F3439 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0003F097@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:03:37 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 66205 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:03:37 -0500 Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0003F095@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:03:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:03:37 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: full throttle To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 347358771 Joel - I know you have ideas on where that N is coming from. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. Microbial biomass, humus complex, N pools, OM pools... protozoan grazing... the whole basis of organic agriculture is based on a holistic system with mutliple components interacting to support a cycle of nutrient availability, growth promotion, and plant protection. We have evidence that microorganisms communicate with plant roots and make nutrients available as the plant needs them, during certain periods of the growing season. Later in the growing season, these same nutrients are not produced by the rhizosphere community. Anyways, mineralization also came up on the U.S. Compost Council list regarding compost mineraliztaion rates. Greg Evanylo at Virginia Tech completed recent SARE research on agronomic rates of compost. He shared ideas and figures on N mineralization from composts, worth bookmarking for future reference. Yet, again, crop response in the field is greater than what compost mineralization rates predict. Interestingly, I'm on the road in Davis, California. This is a very productive agricultural region. The size of the trees and the diversity of plant species to choose from for landscaping and food production is amazing. UC-SAREP at UC-Davis has published helpful papers and publications on organic matter, worms, etc. In my travels, observations on sustainability are striking. How will population growth, resource consumption, fossil fuel reserves, transportation methods and building structures, and global warming effect our lives and our lifestyles in 5, 10, 20, and 50 years? It occurs to me that we may have to look at a lifestyle based on the bicycle and other non-fossil fuel driven transporation, in the next decade or two. This will also be a time when home food production becomes the norm, rather than reliance on shipped-in food and commercial agriculture. I realize this is a bleak picture, but it an impression that is real. How do you support these megatropolis populations with all those cars zooming around, when fossil fuel reserves are predicted to zero out in less than 100 years? Steve Diver NCAT / ATTRA On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:07:27 -0500, Joel Gruver wrote: >2 weeks ago I asked several soil scientists with long careers investigating= >nitrogen management to estimate how many lbs of the N taken up by a typical= >NC corn crop comes from the mineralization of organic matter. > >They all estimated 20-40 lbs and presented the following rationale (2% >mineralization of 1% OM (~10 tons of OM in an acre plow layer) with a 5% N >content =E0 20 lbs N). > >They all agreed that : >a 150 bushel/acre corn crop will take up 150-170 lbs/acre of N >150 lbs/acre of fertilizer N is a normal rate >fertilizer uptake efficiency is not likely to exceed 50%. > >I then showed them the following calculation: >total N uptake =96 50% of fertilizer N =3D 75 =96 95 lbs of soil N/acre >and asked them where all this soil N was coming from if organic matter was >only providing 20-40 lbs. > >They all seemed genuinely perplexed=85 as if they had never contemplated th= is >question. > >Joel Gruver >Department of Soil Science >NC State University >919 515 4270 >jgruv@hotmail.com ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Fri Nov 14 13:44:56 2003 X-UIDL: 368600018 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A9723227004C; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:05:38 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2E51EC5F7 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:05:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00041626@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:06:29 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 37361 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:06:29 -0500 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00041624@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:06:29 -0500 Received: from CAVM@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id d.107.289ea5d1 (657) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:05:32 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10717 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <107.289ea5d1.2ce6736c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:05:32 EST Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: CAVM@AOL.COM Subject: Compost discussion group To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368600018 Send Compost mailing list submissions to compost@compostingcouncil.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.cloudnet.com/mailman/listinfo/compost or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to compost-request@compostingcouncil.org You can reach the person managing the list at compost-admin@compostingcouncil.org ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Fri Nov 14 15:35:25 2003 X-UIDL: 368600024 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A2864E98006A; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:38 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2548A1EC57B for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00041753@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 37726 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00041751@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Received: from Harold (ool-4356fecc.dyn.optonline.net [67.86.254.204]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HOC007PYXVM9M@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:35 -0500 (EST) MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: chris reid Subject: Compost Tea Experiences, Questions, and Recommendations To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <200311120736.1ajX3h4BR3NZFl40@penguin> Precedence: list X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368600024 Over the past few months, I've been putting together a document of ideas, experiences and best practices in aerobically active compost tea (AACT) brewing and use, as part of a Yahoo compost tea e-group moderated by Jeff Lowenfels. I use the tea in my landscaping practice, and others use it in gardens, farms, and even some use it for houseplants. The interest and impetus for putting together this document was that it is not easy to gather together the information to brew good tea. Elaine Ingham's Compost Tea Brewing Manual provides a wealth of useful information, but I find there is even more to know than is provided in this pioneering document. As a result of this still-incomplete project, I've now been asked to speak at a local conference on the topic of compost tea. I just began using it last summer, so it is premature to draw public conclusions about my own limited experiences and I think it best and most responsible to function and speak more as a reporter who has spoken to many others about their experiences. So now you have the background. In preparation for the conference talk, I'm interested in hearing from anyone using compost tea in farm, garden, or landscape settings. What has your experience been? What kind of setup, ingredients, and recipes are you using? Have you tested your teas? What are the results - positive and unintended or negative -- that you believe you have observed? What other inputs or practices are you using in the plots where you are using tea? I am clear that some of the information will be anecdotal, other info more documentable. I welcome comments either on or off list. Thanks, Chris Reid ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Fri Nov 14 15:35:25 2003 X-UIDL: 368600024 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A2864E98006A; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:38 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (srvtask.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2548A1EC57B for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00041753@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 37726 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00041751@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Received: from Harold (ool-4356fecc.dyn.optonline.net [67.86.254.204]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HOC007PYXVM9M@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:35 -0500 (EST) MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: chris reid Subject: Compost Tea Experiences, Questions, and Recommendations To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <200311120736.1ajX3h4BR3NZFl40@penguin> Precedence: list X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368600024 Over the past few months, I've been putting together a document of ideas, experiences and best practices in aerobically active compost tea (AACT) brewing and use, as part of a Yahoo compost tea e-group moderated by Jeff Lowenfels. I use the tea in my landscaping practice, and others use it in gardens, farms, and even some use it for houseplants. The interest and impetus for putting together this document was that it is not easy to gather together the information to brew good tea. Elaine Ingham's Compost Tea Brewing Manual provides a wealth of useful information, but I find there is even more to know than is provided in this pioneering document. As a result of this still-incomplete project, I've now been asked to speak at a local conference on the topic of compost tea. I just began using it last summer, so it is premature to draw public conclusions about my own limited experiences and I think it best and most responsible to function and speak more as a reporter who has spoken to many others about their experiences. So now you have the background. In preparation for the conference talk, I'm interested in hearing from anyone using compost tea in farm, garden, or landscape settings. What has your experience been? What kind of setup, ingredients, and recipes are you using? Have you tested your teas? What are the results - positive and unintended or negative -- that you believe you have observed? What other inputs or practices are you using in the plots where you are using tea? I am clear that some of the information will be anecdotal, other info more documentable. I welcome comments either on or off list. Thanks, Chris Reid ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Thu Nov 20 23:15:24 2003 X-UIDL: 368600637 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.intrex.net [209.42.192.237] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AC081C550092; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:52:40 -0500 Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C5A1EC6D0 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000433C5@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:53:10 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 41585 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:53:09 -0500 Received: from web11207.mail.yahoo.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000433BA@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:53:08 -0500 Received: from [64.165.213.122] by web11207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:52:13 PST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <20031121035213.31213.qmail@web11207.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:52:13 -0800 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Lion Kuntz Subject: Nutrient Quantity, of Nutrient ACCESS? To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368600637 No disrespect to Joel, but several hundred thousand 3rd world farmers have personal hands-on experiences only now beginning to receive agronomic research attention in the USA... http://ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/mba_project/moist/Roland.pdf Nutrient Quantity or Nutrient Access? A New Understanding of How to Maintain Soil Fertility in the Tropics By Roland Bunch INTRODUCTION If we are to achieve or maintain high levels of agricultural productivity in the tropics, it is crucial that we properly understand the relationship between nutrients in the soil and crop productivity. This understanding is especially important if we wish to achieve such productivity at the lowest possible costs, both economic and ecological. The thesis of this paper is that the conventional view of the relationship between soil nutrients and crop productivity in the tropics is leading to both damaging agricultural policies and inefficient and damaging farm-level practices. Of prime importance to small-scale farmers worldwide is that this conventional concept results in the consistent recommendation of the use of huge quantities of chemical fertilizers that are biologically unnecessary, economically extravagant and ecologically damaging. The ecological damage caused by chemical fertilizer in its own right is perhaps not that great. Nevertheless, if we include its indirect impact caused by the fact that most small-scale farmers reduce their use of organic matter (o.m.) once they start using chemical fertilizers, the indirect ecological damage brought about by chemical fertilizers in developing world agriculture and ecology is nothing short of breath-taking. The present paper cannot delve deeply into soil chemistry and biology. For a much more in-depth analysis of the chemical and biological issues described herein, the best book at present (unfortunately available only in Spanish and Portuguese) is Ana Primavesi's The Ecological Management of the Soil. (Primavesi) Nevertheless, the present paper will describe, in general, a new conception of the fertility of tropical soils, and then, again very generally, ways in which that theory can be put into practice. It should also be mentioned that much of the theory described in this paper was originally developed by Drs. Artur and Ana Primavesi. Furthermore, the Primavesis' theories have been widely validated by hundreds of thousands of small farmers in southern Brazil with the technical support of people such as Valdemar Hercilio (Salgado) de Freitas, Claudino Monegat and Ademir Calegari. Those of us trying to improve small farmers' productivity owe a deep debt of gratitude to these people. THE CONVENTIONAL CONCEPT OF SOIL FERTILITY Soil fertility is not an easy concept to define, (Cresser) but for the purposes of this paper, we will use the definition of soil fertility presented in Anthony Young's book Agroforestry for Soil Conservation: "soil fertility...is the capacity of soil to support the growth of plants, on a sustained basis, under given conditions of climate and other relevant properties of land." We choose this definition, rather than the much more limited one that takes into account only the soil content of available nutrients, because we agree with Young that the latter definition "leads to a myopic view of soil management, to the neglect of physical and biological properties." (Young) The traditional concept of soil fertility basically maintains that fertility is largely a reflection of the overall quantities or concentration of nutrients in the soil. That is, plant nutrition is to be maximized primarily by ensuring that all the essential nutrients are present in the soil in significant concentrations. Therefore, if a farmer applies sufficiently large amounts of primarily chemical fertilizer, uses the right balance of NPK, and the soil has an acceptable pH and sufficiently high cation exchange capacity (CEC) to hold those nutrients in place, the farmer will have efficiently achieved good soil fertility. The basic idea is that the soil operates like a bank: add more nutrients repeatedly, over a long period of time, and these nutrients will gradually build up, like a savings account, increasing the soil's fertility and therefore crop productivity. Although there are, of course, other factors that must be taken into account, primarily physical and chemical processes like leaching, soil pH, the soil's CEC and nutrient fixation, the basic idea is that the soil acts more or less like a static recipient of nutrients. Thus, the vast majority of the effort and experimentation of these traditional theorists have had to do with overall nutrient levels and their physical movement, mineralization and leaching within the soil profile. For the purposes of this paper, this idea of soil fertility will be called the Nutrient Quantity Concept. The priorities of the adherents of this Concept are seen very clearly in the books they write on the subject of soil properties and management. A typical textbook, based on the Nutrient Quantity Concept--even one dealing with tropical soils-- dedicates three chapters (73 pages) to NPK, while not dedicating even a single chapter to either organic matter (o.m.) or soil biology. (Committee on Tropical Soils) Even a book published as recently as 1997 on soil fertility in Africa dedicates two long chapters (82 pages) to NP, and only a fraction of one chapter (8 pages) to specifically organic inputs. (Buresh) Other factors are mentioned in these publications, but chemical sources and quantities of NPK dominate heavily the entire discussion. A common conclusion drawn from this conception by its proponents as late as 1997 is that in Africa "mineral fertilizers should be at the core of strategies to restore soil fertility and raise crop production." (Quiñones) Another major proponent of this conception wrote in 1994: "Some people say that Africa's food problems can be solved without the application of chemical fertilizers. They're dreaming." (Borlaug) The Financial Times goes on to write that the same author said that, "Sub-Saharan Africa had the lowest use of fertilizer in the world and soil nutrients were so low that other efforts to raise crop productivity would not be successful until fertility was improved." (Borlaug) By "fertility" being "improved," he is referring specifically to the application of chemical fertilizers. First, allow me to include a short explanation for the benefit of the layman. Crops are capable of absorbing some nutrients that exist in the soil at levels of less than 0.2 parts per million, while other nutrients are often difficult to absorb at 100 times that concentration. (Ahn) Thus there is, in fact, little relationship between a plant's physical ability to absorb a nutrient and the nutrient's concentration in the soil. Also, plants do not absorb the various nutrients primarily according to the levels present in the soils, but rather in accordance with the plants' own needs, and in ratios between the nutrients that are relatively stable for each species or variety of plant, regardless of the supply of the nutrient in the soil. Thus, the Nutrient Quantity Concept is really saying that, other conditions being adequate, the growth or productivity of any plant will depend largely on the quantity and availability of the nutrient in the soil that is proportionately least adequate in relation to the total amount of that nutrient necessary for the plant to achieve maximum growth, and that in practice maximum crop growth should be achieved by having large enough reserves of these nutrients in the soil so that adequate quantities of them will exist in available forms. (Cresser) THE INADEQUACIES OF THE NUTRIENT QUANTITY CONCEPT Theoretical Inadequacies of the Concept First, the Nutrient Quantity Concept, in its simplified, "banking" form, is very unrepresentative of what actually happens in the soil. Far more important for productivity than the total quantity of any single nutrient or group of nutrients is the chemical form in which it occurs, the depth in the soil at which it occurs, the kinds and numbers of macro and microorganisms that exist, the presence of soil compaction layers, and the equilibrium that exists between the nutrients, the pH of the soil, its moisture content, its organic matter content, its macro and microorganisms, its texture and structure, etc. Furthermore, these factors constantly impact on each other, creating a very complex and constantly changing environment within the soil, or, more accurately, a constantly changing complex of varying microenvironments within the soil. These factors may make it possible for a plant, in a particular time frame, to access a majority of the total store of a given nutrient in the soil, or much less than 1 % of the total store of that same nutrient. In other words, the same nutrient that is in the same total concentration within two different soils may well be fifty to one hundred times more available to a plant in one of those soils than in the other. Obviously, the total amount of a nutrient in the soil is nowhere near as important in terms of the soil's fertility as is the availability of that nutrient to the plants growing on it. Of course, the body of literature and scientific conclusions that have grown up around the Nutrient Quantity Concept, if taken in its total complexity, admits as much. The data of soil science, as a whole, take into account fairly well the fact that all the above-mentioned factors can affect fertility (although soil science could certainly be a good deal more aware of certain of these factors, especially the biological ones). In fact, quite surprisingly, the science built up around the Nutrient Quantity Concept in no way contradicts the very different conception of what is required to achieve soil fertility that will be described below. Where the advocates of the Nutrient Quantity Concept of soil fertility have apparently gone wrong is in the conclusions they have made about soil fertility, based almost entirely upon only a certain, specific selection of these scientific findings. That is, the experiments, although heavily lop-sided in the dominance of their preoccupation with chemical fertilizers, do not necessarily support the Nutrient Quantity Concept any more than they support the concept presented below. What has apparently happened is that one particular fact has come to totally dominate people's thinking about soil nutrients. This is the fact that, in a uniform soil environment, the larger the total quantities of a nutrient that exist in a given soil, the larger will be the quantity of that nutrient that is in available forms. Even though there is ample proof that in a non-uniform soil, and in countless specific cases, this relationship does not exist at all, many conventional soil scientists continue to see this relationship as the most important single logical basis to soil fertility management. (See, for example, Cresser) To cite an extreme but very common example, even when the availability to plants of soil phosphorus is known to be as many as fifty times greater in an organic environment than in an infertile acid soil environment, the Nutrient Quantity Concept still leads virtually all conventional soil scientists to recommend applying additional chemical phosphorus to the acid soil rather than finding or creating an organic microenvironment within that soil in which to apply a much smaller dose of (organic or inorganic) phosphorus. Thus, in a very few words, the Nutrient Quantity Concept does not differ from the concept to be presented below, in its scientific, experimental undergirding. Rather, the difference lies in the somewhat arbitrary decision to emphasize the relationship between total nutrient quantity and the quantity of nutrients available to growing crops, even though scientific evidence shows that this relationship is in most cases tenuous, at best, especially in the case of small farmers in the tropics. A second major error of the Nutrient Quantity Concept is that it seems to presuppose that these nutrients are being more stable in the soil than their own research shows they actually are, especially where the CEC of the soil is quite low and/or erosion is occurring. The idea of building up nutrients in the soil would seem to presuppose that those nutrients will remain there over, say, twenty years or so. Yet virtually all of the N, much of the K, and even small amounts of the P applied as chemical fertilizers today, will not be there twenty years from now, even if no plants were using them. And on low CEC soils and erodible hillsides, the loss of even P can be considerable. In short, the farmers' "money" is constantly leaking out of the "bank". And, sadly, the more money there is in the bank, the more will leak out. This assumption of the persistence of nutrients in the soil seems to be assumed, also, when conventional scientists criticize those who propose using large amounts of o.m. for maintaining soil fertility. Nutrient Quantity proponents worry at considerable length that organic inputs cannot maintain soil nutrient levels over the long term, and that they do not produce as much long-lasting humus as often as we all would like. (Buresh) They seem to forget that chemical fertilizers do not maintain the levels of most micronutrients, either. Of more importance economically, chemical fertilizers, as used by small farmers, do not maintain soil pH. (And even if farmers could, theoretically, avoid acidifying their soils with chemical fertilizers, the costs of liming or using the more expensive alkaline fertilizers is seldom included in economic analyses of the costs of chemical fertilizer use.) Of course, because of the leaking from the bank, chemical fertilizers, even when used in recommended quantities, may not achieve the long-term levels of total nutrients desired. Thus, organic amendments are little different from chemical fertilizers in not being able to increase soil nutrient quantities dramatically over time in the tropics, especially under small farmer conditions. This is not to say we should give up on striving toward at least soil nutrient maintenance over the long run, but rather to say that the use of chemical fertilizers exclusively, in the case of small farmer agriculture, will very likely achieve no more long-term improvement in nutrient quantities than will the use of o.m. exclusively. Just as most small farmers often, but not always, lack the o.m. to increase stores of P, for instance, they also usually lack the cash (and often the profitability of chemical fertilizers on their depleted lands far from markets) to buy sufficient chemical fertilizer. Furthermore, neither this paper nor most of those people who use low input agriculture oppose all use of chemical fertilizers. The replacement of some chemical elements in the soil (mostly P), under certain conditions, and in moderate amounts, is, for us, perfectly acceptable, if not desirable. The third error of the Nutrient Quantity Concept is that its proponents have largely avoided taking into account the tremendous impact in tropical soils of such factors as their macro and microbiology, o.m. content, microenvironments and compaction layers. Inadequacies in Practice Based on these theoretical considerations, most conventional soil scientists have come to a series of extremely far-reaching conclusions. Among these, they have concluded that the best, most efficient way of improving the soil fertility of the developing world's resource-poor farmers is to apply tremendous quantities of NPK along with, perhaps, a small supplement of o.m. They have concluded that "low external input" technologies must inevitably lead to "low output" results. They have therefore further concluded that "ecological agriculture" is inevitably unproductive and has virtually no future. And finally, they have concluded that soils with very low CEC's, like those of most of West Africa, have very little potential for decent crop productivity. None of these conclusions is based on the scientific understanding we have of soils in its totality. And concrete evidence from tens of thousands of farms around the world, as well as from many scientific experiments, provides considerable evidence that not one of these conclusions is, in fact, accurate. Thus, the Nutrient Quantity Concept is failing us. It is failing to lead us to proper conclusions about agricultural priorities. It is failing to predict what will happen if we apply a whole range of agricultural technologies that are now being tried in the tropics, and it is failing to help us understand a series of both natural and agricultural phenomena that we are observing. Above all, it is failing to lead us to promising new technologies that can provide tremendous benefits at low cost to poorer farmers within the tropics. Let's look a little more closely at these failings. One of the main negative impacts of the traditional Nutrient Quantity Concept in tropical environments is that it has caused many scientists to dismiss ecological agriculture out of hand. It has become almost a mantra of some of these scientists that "low input agriculture is low output agriculture." After all, according to the Nutrient Quantity Concept way of thinking, if not much is put into the bank account, not much can be withdrawn. Thus a whole series of promising technologies for increasing agricultural productivity–mostly those which are included in approaches referred to as ecological agriculture or agroecology--have been largely ignored by the dominant members of the scientific community, (Anonymous; Pretty and Hine) to the tremendous detriment of farmers in the tropics. In fact, millions of small-scale farmers in developing countries, representing well over 3 % of the total, have adopted ecological agriculture practices in just the last ten years, (Pretty and Hine) yet these practices are largely ignored by conventional soil scientists. Another major negative impact of the application of this Concept is the claim that because many tropical soils have very low CEC's, they will never be able to produce large harvests. Because such soils cannot hold very many nutrients over a crop's entire life-span, it is said they will never be able to support maximum output. This conception of the dynamics of soil fertility has caused huge areas of the tropics to be written off as "low-potential" areas, where significant investments in agricultural development are therefore not advisable. (Mosher) As a result, hundreds of millions of people have been condemned to a not-so-benign neglect and perpetually low productivity. Since these people often were already among the poorest of the poor, this mistaken policy has aggravated already serious problems of economic injustice and downright hunger. And all because of a theory of soil fertility that is questionable at best. Another factor that becomes extremely important for those of us who focus our work on the poorer farmers of the tropics is that the Nutrient Quantity Concept leads almost inevitably to an excessively high use of chemical fertilizers. The cost of chemical fertilizer very frequently represents the largest single cash cost of resource-poor farmers in the tropics. Yet experience in nation after nation has shown that for a much lower total expense, farmers can achieve the same or even higher yields. Furthermore, as the years go by, the use of most chemical fertilizers mine the soil of micronutrients, acidify the soil even more, and help to erode away, burn out, or simply fail to replace the soil's o.m. In time, these factors all work together to reduce the response that chemical fertilizers achieve in terms of productivity, to the point that, in many cases, there remains no net economic advantage to their use whatsoever. Furthermore, the recent staggering increase in petroleum prices (from $ 12.00 a barrel to somewhere between $ 19.00 and $ 32.00 a barrel) is going to result in major increases in the real farm gate cost of fertilizers, both because of increased costs of production and increased transport costs. Thus, tens of millions of small-scale farmers for whom chemical fertilizer is presently economically advantageous will find that in the future that advantage will have largely or totally disappeared. Thus, it is extremely important that we all learn as much as we can about the technological possibilities that will still allow farmers to increase and maintain their productivity without depending so heavily on increasingly expensive chemical fertilizers. An additional major problem of the traditional Nutrient Quantity Concept is that increasing observation, especially of ecological or low external input agriculture, is showing that the Concept's predictive abilities are seriously lacking. Crop productivity, in most such cases, is not basically, or even approximately, a factor of the overall amount of nutrients in the soil, or of the CEC of the soil. Very high levels of productivity are being achieved on soils that, according to the traditional Concept, could never produce such yields, and with applications of nutrients that are anywhere from one-half to one-tenth the quantities the Nutrient Quantity Concept would indicate are necessary. Recent scientific experiments with o.m. and fertilizer use in Africa, where scientists cannot explain 7 with conventional theories the yields that were achieved, are typical. (Palm) In what specific cases has the Nutrient Quantity Concept failed to predict present phenomena? - The increases in yields achieved by the use of green manure/cover crops (gm/cc's) in system after system are greater than the conventional Concept would have predicted. With increases of only perhaps 100 kg of fixed N and no additional P or K, yields of maize crops have often doubled. (Buckles; Bunch and Lopez; Pretty and Hine, for example) Furthermore, yields of 2.5 t/ha have continued to be produced on relatively poor, humid tropical soils every year for 40 years, with no application of chemical NPK. Of course, what is happening here is due to biological, physical, and chemical dynamics within the soil, not just those of soil nutrients. Nevertheless, according to the Nutrient Quantity Concept, the levels of P, at least, should have become a major limiting factor years ago. Yet applications of chemical P on these soils still, after forty years, give no economic response. (Buckles) Perhaps it should be added here that "green manure/cover crops" is a technology that is traditional in many tropical areas, but which have only been developed over the last fifteen years in Brazil and Mesoamerica and spread around the world largely by NGO's in the last five years or so. This technology, not to be confused with traditional "green manuring," grows biomass, often leguminous, intercropped with regular crops, under fruit trees, during the dry season, during frosty periods or on degraded soils too poor for cropping (i.e. on land with little or no opportunity cost), thereby adding huge net quantities of high-nutrient biomass in situ to agricultural systems and applying it to the surface where it is highly accessible to subsequent crops. (See Bunch 2001) "Dispersed trees" is another traditional practice around the world which has only recently been studied and promoted in Central America, but which apparently has tremendous potential for increasing biomass production in much of the lowland tropics. -In Madagascar, hundreds of farmers are now using a System of Rice Intensification (SRI) that frequently achieves yields of 12 to 15 t/ha, and occasionally 18 t/ha, using only moderate amounts of compost and no chemical fertilizer on low CEC, acid soils (a classic case of "low potential soils"). (Uphoff) Yet the world's rice experts hold that the "biological maximum" for the rice plant is less than 10 t/ha. As one scientist has written, "yields for multiple varieties peak out at about 8 t/ha, even with high N applications, up to 200 kg/ha." (Ladha, et al.). Furthermore, even with applications of 200 kg/ha of N, N assimilation is considered to be the limiting factor for rice production. (Uphoff) In this case, the difference in yields between conventional rice and SRI rice is probably due to a whole series of factors, but whatever the reasons may be, the "low input agriculture is low output agriculture" attitude cannot come even close to explaining rice yields of 15 t/ha on these "low potential" soils with so little N introduced into the system. - In the case of West Africa's very old, low CEC soils, books based on the Nutrient Quantity Concept claim good yields can only be achieved with major applications of chemical nutrients. (Avery) Yet around people's homes (admittedly on very small plots), African women frequently grow 4-mt-tall, 4 t/ha maize. How? Through the daily application of grey water and kitchen scraps from the household. And the soil is the same soil as in their fields a few mts away. - The age-old, world-wide regeneration of soils by means of traditional slash-and-burn, or shifting agriculture, techniques cannot be fully explained by the dominant interpretation of the Nutrient Quantity Concept, either. Attempts have been made to somehow help the Concept explain this regeneration of the soil through the idea of nutrient pumping. But the amount of nutrients pumped by trees is frequently not enough to explain the renewed fertility. In many cases, there are precious few nutrients in the subsoil that the trees could pump, even if they were physically capable of pumping the required quantities. And, of course, the concentration of nutrients in the soils from which they are being pumped is only a fraction of what the Nutrient Quantity Theory would consider sufficient for adequate for plant growth. Furthermore, I have personally asked West African farmers to show me which fields were ready to be "slashed and burned," and close to half of the indicated fields had no visible vegetation on them other than grasses. Certainly farmers whose food supply has depended for generations on their ability to accurately identify regenerated soils could not be mistaken half the time. And if grasses can regenerate soils by themselves, how can the Nutrient Quantity Concept explain this worldwide phenomenon? - The biomass productivity of natural rainforests is also much higher than its CEC would allow under the traditional Concept. Interestingly enough, in this case, scientists who normally adhere to the Nutrient Quantity Concept freely admit that the rapid recycling of nutrients in tropical rainforests permits tremendous levels of biomass production in the presence of very low levels of nutrients and CEC's in the soil in general. Nevertheless, they have been largely unwilling to entertain the possibility that this same phenomenon of the rapid circulation of nutrients could be the basis of highly productive crop agriculture under similar conditions. Put another way, Nutrient Quantity proponents freely admit in the case of rainforests that "low input forests produce high output forests," yet they refuse to admit that the same principle might be applicable to agriculture in the very same environments. This use of one rationale for proven rainforest productivity while refusing to admit to the possibility of the very same process in agriculture would seem to represent a serious lack of logical consistency. Nutrient pumping might seem to cloud the above issue somewhat. Nevertheless, many rainforests produce prodigious amounts of biomass above subsoils whose provision of nutrients, even under extremely efficient nutrient pumping, would be less than those nutrients added artificially under many "low external input" systems. We should also remember that the areas deep in the soil from which these nutrients are presumably "pumped," virtually always possess much lower concentrations of nutrients than do the soils above them. Therefore, even with nutrient pumping, natural forests provide clear evidence that sufficient nutrients for very high levels of biomass production are being extracted from soils with extremely low total concentrations of nutrients. Furthermore, low external input agroforestry systems also pump nutrients. Thus, the logic of the Nutrient Quantity advocates remains problematic at best. -Chemical fertilizer companies are dedicating millions of dollars to research on "slow-release" forms of chemical fertilizer. This means, in effect, that the fertilizer companies themselves (which, not surprisingly, are among the most vociferous proponents of the Nutrient Quantity Concept) are admitting--through their actions, if not their words--that the overall quantity of nutrients available at any given time is not the primary issue in productivity. Of course, one could argue that slow-release fertilizer is being developed because its ecological benefits will demand a sacrifice in productivity from farmers. Nevertheless, research on slowrelease fertilizers has shown no such significant reduction in yields. Thus, the very development of this kind of fertilizer is an admission that, at least where this fertilizer is successful in terms of productivity, the constant supply of nutrients is more important than the total quantity available at any particular time. Given the apparent inaccuracies and even logical inconsistencies of the traditional Nutrient Quantity Concept, it is time to develop a new, more comprehensive and accurate concept of soil fertility in the tropics. THE NUTRIENT ACCESS CONCEPT OF TROPICAL SOIL FERTILITY An Illustrative Experiment To illustrate the new concept, I will first describe an experiment reported in Ana Primavesi's The Ecological Management of the Soil. (Primavesi) In this experiment, crops were grown in four hydroponic solutions. In the first solution, a normal concentration of nutrients for maximum maize plant development was used, and replenished every 4 days. In the second, twice the normal concentration was used and replenished every 4 days. In the third, the normal solution was diluted 50 times and also replenished every 4 days. And in the fourth case, the solution used was diluted 50 times the normal concentration, as in the third case, but was replenished every 2 days. Plant growth (measured in grams of dry weight) in the second case was less than in the first. In the third case, as either theory would predict, the growth of the plants was 28% less than in the first. But in the fourth, quite surprisingly, the growth of the plants was slightly superior to that in the first case. That is, even when the nutrient solution was 1/50 what the traditional Nutrient Quantity Concept would have seen as optimal, the plants grew equally well, as long as the solution was replaced frequently enough and the roots could access the nutrients. That is, crop growth above a certain extremely low concentration, does not depend on the concentration of nutrients. It depends, rather, on the constant access of plant roots to the nutrients, even when these nutrients exist in very low concentrations. The Nutrient Quantity Concept's remedy of increasing the concentration of nutrients by applying large amounts of chemical fertilizer misses the point almost entirely. What is needed is a constant supply of even a very small but wellbalanced amount of nutrients over time, and the unobstructed access of plant roots to these nutrients. This experiment shows that the relationship between concentrations or overall quantities of nutrients and plant growth is, above a certain minimum concentration, altogether nonexistent. As long as plants enjoy the right conditions of nutrient balance, accessibility to nutrients, and a constant resupply of nutrients, the relationship between the concentration of nutrients in the soil and its productivity is either zero (i.e. there is no relationship) or negative (i.e. more concentrated nutrients reduce plant productivity). So why is this fact more relevant to tropical soils and farmers than to temperate-zone soils and farmers? Very simply, tropical soils tend to have fewer cation-exchange sites, and therefore lower concentrations of nutrients. Because of this paucity of CEC, it is also much more difficult and costly for farmers to raise those concentrations of nutrients over the medium to long term. Second, the ambient heat of the tropics makes it difficult or impossible for plants to create the osmotic pressure to be able to absorb nutrients from highly concentrated solutions. (Primavesi) Therefore, plants in the lowland tropics often thrive better on more limited concentrations of nutrients (as was illustrated by the second case in the experiment above), as long as the remaining conditions are fulfilled. Thirdly, farmers who work by hand or animal traction, can more easily micromanage their soils, creating varied microenvironments, in some of which nutrients are accessible, even if the total soil environment is deficient in accessible nutrients. And lastly, while northern farmers can often afford to fertilize their soils more heavily than need be for present purposes, resource-poor farmers in the developing countries just cannot afford to over-fertilize. Furthermore, in high-rainfall or steeply sloped areas, resource-poor farmers would lose more of those nutrients than do their northern colleagues. The Concept The new concept of soil fertility emphasizes not the concentration of nutrients in the soil, but rather the maximization of the access of plant roots to soil nutrients. Thus I will herein call it the Nutrient Access Concept of soil fertility. The Nutrient Access Concept of soil fertility in the tropics posits the following: Maximum plant growth can best and most cheaply be achieved in the tropics by: 1) the constant supply of soil nutrients (most inexpensively achieved with fairly low concentrations), 2) a healthy balance between the nutrients, and 3) maximum access of plant roots to these nutrients (i.e. the maintenance of good soil structure and/or mulches). THE ADEQUACY OF THE NUTRIENT ACCESS CONCEPT Of course, the first question we must ask is whether the Nutrient Access Concept can explain the phenomena mentioned above better than the Nutrient Quantity Concept could. First of all, the Nutrient Access Concept does not deny that heavy concentrations of nutrients can produce high yields in many circumstances, especially in cooler climes, and when soils are compacted or optimal soil structure has otherwise been damaged, CEC is high and farmers are well- capitalized. It would tend to indicate that high-input agriculture is probably more expensive than it need be to achieve maximum productivity, but it does not deny that high levels of productivity can be achieved through high concentrations of nutrients in developed nation agriculture, and even highly capitalized plantation agriculture on the best soils of the tropics. Where the Nutrient Access Concept does point to agricultural practices of a radically different kind is where soils have very low CEC’s, where soil o.m. is or could be abundant and cheap, where capital is scarce, and/or where temperatures are high. But in these situations, very common in the tropics, would the Nutrient Access Concept be any more useful than the Nutrient Quantity Concept? Adequacy in Practice The Nutrient Access Concept has already led, in southern Brazil (Bunch, 1994) and small pockets of farmers in country after country, to competitive yields at relatively low costs, often on what were previously considered “low potential” soils, and with a much more positive long-term ecological impact than that of agriculture according to the traditional Nutrient Quantity Concept. (Pretty and Hine) These experiences, plus the nature of the Nutrient Access Concept itself, would indicate that there is a good chance that this Concept could reduce significantly the costs of producing competitive yields in the tropics. For small-scale, poor farmers, especially on impoverished soils with low CEC’s, the technology resulting from the Nutrient Access Concept could be a major life-saver, both literally and figuratively. The Nutrient Access Concept provides absolutely no rationale for the present unjust discrimination against those farming on so-called “low potential” soils. Instead, it supports the idea that with fairly small, inexpensive applications of highly accessible nutrients, these soils can produce harvests several times their present levels. The “potential” of the soil depends more on the proper management of the soil than it does on the addition of large quantities of very expensive nutrients. It would also call into question efforts to introduce and subsidize tremendous quantities of expensive chemical fertilizers to dozens of African nations already on the brink of bankruptcy. Presently, there is a lot of discussion about the possibility of bringing the “Green Revolution” to Africa. Proposals center on the idea that the World Bank and other major financial institutions should make a concerted effort to introduce and subsidize chemical fertilizers in Africa because of the perceived dangers of “soil nutrient depletion”. (See IFPRI, SSSA) These proposals, of course, fly in the face of increasing petroleum prices and a decade of Neoliberal efforts to reduce artificial governmental subsidies. But more basically, the perception that reduced levels of nutrients in Africa’s soils will inevitably preclude high levels of production is, of course, based on the Nutrient Quantity Concept. Adoption of the Nutrient Access Concept would force a major rewrite of these proposals, orienting them instead toward the achievement of increased yields through higher levels of biomass production, soil structure improvement and mulch-based systems, rather than through the unsustainable use of billions of dollars of increasingly expensive chemical fertilizers. Of course, even if we believed the Nutrient Quantity Theory, we have mentioned above that small farmers’ lack of financial resources and the lack of their depleted soils’ response to chemical fertilizers are a major an obstacle to maintaining or increasing soil nutrient levels with chemical fertilizers just as their lack of access to sufficient o.m. prevents them from doing the same with o.m. And with intercropped or dry season gm/cc’s and/or dispersed trees, the former limitation may be much greater than the latter. If this is the case, someone must explain why, if African soil fertility is to be subsidized, it would be better to subsidize chemical fertilizers and rock phosphate to the total exclusion of subsidies of the dispersed planting of trees or of the price of green manure/cover crop grains. Adequacy in Explaining the Observed Phenomena The Nutrient Access Concept can explain very adequately those observed phenomena that the traditional theory cannot: - Yields in gm/cc and agroforestry systems do not depend on high concentrations of nutrients. Rather, they depend on the fixation of N and the recycling of large amounts of o.m., which makes the P and other nutrients in the soils much more soluble (i.e. chemically available), and places most of these nutrients near the soil surface, where they are easily accessible to plant roots. Such systems can therefore produce good yields over long periods of time with low or no applications of additional nutrients (though eventually some nutrients, notably P, obviously have to be added to achieve sustainability). - The SRI yields are achieved on very poor soils with only limited applications of compost because the rest of the technological package aerates the soil and makes the plants grow close to six times more roots per plant than does the conventional rice system, thereby allowing the plants to access many more of the limited nutrients in the soil. (Uphoff) - West Africa’s extremely poor soils with very low CEC’s produce well near people’s compounds because the o.m. thrown out of the kitchens maintains a small, steady supply of nutrients, and therefore low CEC’s are sufficient to hold the nutrients necessary for a few hours or days until more nutrients are released from the next day’s discarded o.m. - The regeneration of tropical soils through fallowing does not occur primarily because large quantities of nutrients are brought to the surface and kept there. Rather, the large amounts of biomass deposited on the soil by the regrowth of forests or grasslands either maintain or, gradually and over a number of years, improve the soil structure, so that the newly cleared land allows crops to access much more efficiently the low concentrations of nutrients that exist in the upper horizons of the profile. Meanwhile, the organic matter on the soil surface or near it, produced during years of fallow, continues to supply nutrients in small quantities that can maintain reasonably high levels of productivity, at least for a year or two. - Likewise, the same process maintains the impressive productivity of rainforests for millennia. Optimal soil structure and mulches are maintained, maximizing the access of the forest’s trees to the few nutrients that are constantly being supplied through soil o.m. mineralization. And, to some extent, deeper tree roots, having a tremendous number of feeder roots like the rice under SRI, can capture large amounts of nutrients even in soil horizons with extremely low concentrations of nutrients. In this last case, of course, the Nutrient Quantity people would largely agree with this analysis. What they cannot explain is how forests can grow so well on the basis of these very low concentrations of nutrients when, according to their Concept, low nutrient levels (i.e.. “low inputs”), in whatever part of the soil profile and of whatever origin, should result in the low productivity (i.e. “low outputs”) of the entire system. - Lastly, it is quite obvious that the research on, and benefits of, slow-release chemical fertilizer is much more understandable based upon the Nutrient Access Concept than upon the Nutrient Quantity Concept. The above explanations are, of course, quite simplistic. Much more is happening in the soil than these explanations would indicate. Plants’ access to nutrients, though certainly helped by applying the nutrients to the soil surface or together with o.m., or very near the seed, or by plants’ growing in well-flocculated soils free of compaction layers, is a very complicated phenomenon which involves a large number of factors. These would include those of soil temperature, soil o.m. levels, pH, soil chemical properties, the presence of compaction layers, and nutrient positioning and equilibrium, all of which are in turn affected by the activity of hundreds of thousands of microorganisms in every teaspoonful of soil. Thus, nutrient access involves a whole series of dynamics which we only somewhat dimly understand as yet. Nevertheless, the Nutrient Access Concept seems to come much closer to explaining the overall sum or average of all these varied and mysterious processes than does the Nutrient Quantity Concept. PUTTING THE NUTRIENT ACCESS CONCEPT INTO PRACTICE It will be immediately evident to many people that the Nutrient Access Concept can most easily be put into practice through the copious use of o.m. O.m. can and does supply low to medium concentrations of nutrients, and almost always in well-balanced quantities. Furthermore, o.m., by its very nature, has a slow-release mechanism, allowing the nutrients to become available to plants over a period of several months or years. And lastly, though this mechanism is somewhat slower and sometimes problematic in improving the structure of heavily compacted soils, soil o.m. does serve to gradually improve soil structure. Soil o.m. does so both directly, through the provision of binding materials to improve flocculation, and indirectly, by feeding earthworms and other soil organisms, both macro and micro, which also improve soil structure. (Minnich) Experience shows that the best way to apply o.m. in order to improve soil dynamics in these three respects, as well as to reduce costs, is to apply it either to the soil surface or, during the period of transition, within 20 cm of the surface. Although there is still some argument as to how the o.m. should be applied to the soil the first year or two of a transition into mulch-based agriculture (when soil compaction below the surface is a serious limiting factor), experience tells us that after the first year or two, virtually all the o.m. should be applied to the soil surface. (See, for instance, Primavesi; MAG/DGP) It should be mentioned here that the Nutrient Access Concept does not necessarily support the total discontinuation of the use of chemical fertilizer. While organic agriculture proponents may agree with this Concept, the Concept does not necessarily support a totally organic approach. What the Concept does do is open the door to a greatly reduced use of chemical fertilizers in the short run, and the gauging of their use in the long run more according to the replacement levels of net losses of nutrients for the purpose of sustainability (minus those nutrients supplied by o.m. and N fixation), rather than the much higher levels of use presently thought to be the only way to significantly increase productivity. The Five Principles of Agriculture for the Humid Tropics Based on the Nutrient Access Theory, an increasing number of institutions involved around the world in small farmer agriculture have begun to use some or all of the following Five Principles of soil management (Bunch, 1995): 1) Maximize o.m. production. Frequently, small-scale farmers can increase dramatically the amount of o.m. their fields produce while maintaining yields and only increasing costs slightly, if at all. In fact, many gm/cc and agroforestry systems reduce the amount of labor needed for controlling weeds, thereby increasing overall o.m. production while at the same time decreasing costs. Increases in o.m. production can be achieved by using the intercropping of either various crops or gm/cc’s with annuals or tree crops (as in dispersed tree systems), by establishing two- to four-story fields and gardens, and by growing trees or gm/cc’s on wasteland or during the dry season. In droughty areas, an increased provision of water in whatever form can also result in greater levels of biomass production. Obviously, the more biomass we produce in situ, the more we will have for applying to the soil, thereby making the provision of nutrients to the soil greater and more constant. If animals are present in the farming systems, they will also be more numerous and/or produce more manure per animal if they have more biomass to consume. 2) Keep the soil covered. Soil exposed to the tropical sun produces more weeds (which are another form of biomass, but may compete with crops and/or occasion a good deal of work). Unprotected soil also becomes very hot, causing a series of problems, including the more rapid rate of soil o.m. burn-out, the reduction in crop growth rates and the death of beneficial macro and microorganisms. Shifting agriculture has been motivated in most places in the world by either declining soil fertility or increasing noxious weed growth. Once we maximize biomass production and keep the soil shaded, both of these problems are largely eliminated. The need to let the land lie fallow for years is thus also eliminated, as has been shown in country after country with the use of gm/cc’s. It is interesting to note that virtually all the systems of improved fallows or gm/cc’s that farmers have developed on their own, have increased both soil cover and the overall production of biomass, as compared to the previous shifting agriculture systems. Keeping the soil covered is obviously consistent with the Nutrient Access Concept because it reduces the decomposition rate of soil o.m., thereby making sure the provision of nutrients to the soil lasts longer and is more constant, even if mulches tend to lose a certain amount of N to volatilization. 3) Use zero tillage. Many traditional agriculture systems use zero tillage. However, these systems are often not very productive over time, because, in the absence of large amounts of soil o.m., nutrients are no longer constantly supplied to the soil and soil structure deteriorates quite rapidly. If, however, zero tillage is used in the presence of a maximum production of biomass, then both the supply of nutrients and good soil structure can be maintained. Thus, in contrast to many traditional zero till systems, those systems with plentiful biomass production can remain highly productive over decades, as a whole series of gm/cc and agroforestry systems have proven. Often zero tillage cannot be practiced the first or second year of the transition, but as soil o.m. levels increase and the soil becomes covered, the populations of organisms that naturally till the soil increase rapidly, making further tillage by the farmer unnecessary. (Scientists have shown, for instance, that earthworms alone can move more soil/ha/year than is moved with one ploughing using a tractor-pulled moldboard plough.) (Minnich) In the conventional textbooks, zero tillage is linked with a major increase in the use of herbicides. However, if the soil is kept covered through an adequate use of gm/cc’s and agroforestry, most small-scale farmers will find they never, or only very rarely, need to use herbicides. Zero tillage has an important relationship to the Nutrient Access Concept, because tillage both damages soil structure and increases the rate of soil o.m. burn-out. Furthermore, tillage exposes the soil (i.e. violates the principle of keeping the soil covered) and removes or incorporates the mulch, which violates the fifth principle below. 4) Maximize biodiversity. Some gm/cc users report achieving slightly better yields with a mixed selection of gm/cc’s. Nevertheless, this principle will find its primary importance not in the short run, but rather in maintaining the systems’ long-term sustainability. It can also be very important in maintaining the balance of nutrients required by the Nutrient Access Concept. (Primavesi) 5) Feed the crops largely through the mulch. Many humid tropical soils, with their pH’s below 5.0, their aluminum toxicity and compaction layers, are not very hospitable environments for crop roots. Thus, crops will often grow much better if they can also access nutrients from a thick litter layer or mulch. In fact most, if not all, crops that grow in the humid tropics will spread the vast majority of their feeder roots immediately under or even up into a mulch layer as long as it remains fairly moist. That is, they will feed much more readily from inside and immediately below the litter layer than from the soil itself. Even the impact of chemical fertilizers can sometimes be greatly increased by being applied to the mulch rather than the soil. In Costa Rica, edible bean yields in the “frijol tapado” system, a traditional slash-mulch system, were not increased much at all above the traditional 500 kg/ha when chemical phosphorus was applied to the soil. However, yields rose two to three times traditional yields (to above 2 t/ha) when the inorganic P was applied directly to the mulch. Researchers in Africa have also noted that fertilizers applied to mulching materials are more efficient than when incorporated into the soil. (Thurston) Basically, feeding plants through the mulch helps compensate for less than ideal conditions of soil structure or root growth, providing a supplemental source of readily available nutrients in small but constant quantities right at the soil surface, thereby making it less necessary for crops to develop huge root systems that extend deep into the soil profile. Obviously, plants’ access to nutrients will be better if the nutrients are on the soil surface than if they are three feet below it, especially in impoverished, acidic soils with problems of aluminum toxicity. These same rules may well apply not only to the humid tropics, but to the semi-arid tropics, as well. Reports from some semi-arid areas indicate that this is the case. Nevertheless, there still exist some doubts as to what extent crops can survive during, and recover after, the mulch has dried out completely due to the frequent droughts in such areas. Much more experimental evidence is needed in this case. Small farmers and NGO’s have developed a number of other simple ways that plants’ access to nutrients can be inexpensively enhanced during the transition period. Edwin Asante, of World Vision/Rwanda, for instance, has developed a sort of small farmer version of precision planting for potatoes. In this case, an 8-cm ball of o.m., lime, and about one-fourth the normally recommended amount of chemical fertilizer are placed less than 0.5-cm directly below the seed. Yields in impoverished soils with a pH of 3.5 have averaged 20 t/ha, as opposed to 9 t/ha without precision planting. (Personal communication during field visit) In Honduras, Elías Sánchez developed a type of strip tillage or in-row tillage (locally called “minimum tillage” or “labranza mínima”) which concentrates the o.m. in the crop row, where it is more accessible. And Dr. Erich Raddatz is developing mycorrhiza strains that can double fruit production by increasing plants’ access to nutrients. (Personal communication) These Five Principles, apart from having proven themselves time and time again among small farmers around the world, are the self-same principles a humid tropical forest employs to maintain its high “productivity” during millennia, even on soils with very low CEC’s. A tropical rainforest maximizes biomass production and biodiversity, keeps the soil shaded at all times, and feeds its plants largely through the litter layer. And, of course, no human beings have to plough a forest to keep it growing lush and green, century after century. Thus, the sustainability of forest ecology over the millennia provides important evidence that tropical agriculture following these Five Principles should also be sustainable over long periods of time. The small amount of scientific research done on this issue so far tends to support this conclusion. (Buckles) ADDITIONAL IMPACTS OF THE NUTRIENT ACCESS CONCEPT One major result we could expect of the Nutrient Access Concept of soil fertility would be an increase in optimism about the plight of resource-poor farmers. They are, by the conventional Concept, in serious, perhaps insurmountable, trouble. Their soils are increasingly depleted of nutrients. (Buresh; Henao) Furthermore, they have no hope of increasing their soils’ nutrient supplies sufficiently with o.m., and they have far too little money to invest in chemical fertilizers, even if the impact of fertilizers on their impoverished soils were enough to cover the investment. To add insult to injury, the world’s rich nations have now decided that somehow these unfortunate people are on a level playing field with rich European and American farmers, and therefore should have to compete with them without the assistance of protective trade barriers. But given the Nutrient Access Concept, even those farmers with heavily depleted soils should be able to increase their yields dramatically with very little investment other than that of more increased knowledge and the adoption of new agricultural techniques. Gm/cc’s provide cheaper nitrogen than fertilizer factories, while zero tillage and cover crops can eliminate the comparative advantage provided by tractors. Whether most villager farmers will ever be able to compete with European or American farmers is still doubtful, but at least they should be able to produce enough for their own consumption to eat well. Although if conventional farmers in the First World persist in using increasingly expensive fossil fuels and chemical fertilizers at the present exorbitant rate, the poor just might be able to compete, after all. A second impact of the Nutrient Access Concept would be that the world’s agriculture will become a good deal more sustainable. Increased sustainability will come from the reduced use of chemical fertilizers (reducing groundwater and stream pollution, nutrient imbalances and soil acidification), from the positive impacts on the environment of increased biomass production, soil cover, soil o.m. and biodiversity, and from the decrease of farmer dependency on increasingly expensive fossil fuels. NOTES Ahn, Peter Martin (1993) Tropical Soils and Fertilizer Use, Essex, Longman Group UK Ltd. ______________ (1999) Alternatives to Conventional Modern Agriculture for Meeting World Food Needs in the Next Century, Report of the Cornell International Institute for Food, Agriculture, and Development’s (CIIFAD) conference on “Sustainable Agriculture: Evaluation of New Paradigms and Old Practices,” at Bellagio, Italy, April 26-30. 18 Borlaug, Norman (1998) as quoted in Dennis Avery, Saving the Planet with Pesticides and Plastics, The Environmental Triumph of High-Yield Farming, Indianapolis, Indiana, the Hudson Institute. Buckles, Daniel, et al. (1998) Cover Crops in Hillside Agriculture, Farmer Innovation with Mucuna, Ottawa, Canada, International Development Research Centre (IDRC) and International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center (CIMMYT). Bunch, Roland (1994) “EPAGRI’s Work in the State of Santa Catarina, Brazil, Major New Possibilities for Resource-Poor Farmers,” photocopied. Bunch, Roland (1995) “An Odyssey of Discovery, Principles of Agriculture for the Humid Tropics,” ILEIA Newsletter, Vol. 11, No. 3, October. Bunch, Roland (2001) “A Proven Technology for Intensifying Shifting Agriculture, Green Manure/Cover Crop Experience Around the World,” and “Achieving the Adoption of Green Manure/Cover Crops,” both presented at the International Institute for Rural Reconstructon (IIRR’s) Conference on “Best Practices in Shifting Agriculture and the Conservation of Natural Resources in Asia,” held August 14-26 at Silang, Cavite, the Philippines. Both are soon to be published by IIRR. Bunch, Roland and Gabino López (1995) Soil Recuperation in Central America, Sustaining Innovation after Intervention, Gatekeeper Series No. 55, London, International Institute for Environment and Development (IIED). Buresh, Roland J., et al., eds. (1997) Replenishing Soil Fertility in Africa, SSSA Special Publication No. 51, Madison, Wisconsin, Soil Science Society of America (SSSA) and International Center for Research in Agroforestry (ICRAF). Committee of Tropical Soils, Agriculture Board, and National Research Council (1972) Soils of the Humid Tropics, Washington, D.C., National Academy of Sciences (NAS). Cresser, Malcolm, et al. (1993) Soil Chemistry and its Applications, Cambridge, UK, Cambridge University Press. Henao, Julio and Carlos Baanante (1999) “Nutrient Depletion in the Agricultural Soils of Africa,” 2020 Vision Brief 62, International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), Washington, D.C., October. Ladha, J. K., et al. (1998) “Opportunities for Increased Nitrogen-use Efficiency from Improved Lowland Rice Germplasm,” Field Crops Research, Vol. 56. Minnich, Jerry (1977) The Earthworm Book, How to Raise and Use Earthworms for Your Farm and Garden, Emmaus, Pennsylvania, Rodale Press. Ministerio de Agricultura y Ganadería (MAG)/Dirección General de Planificación (DGP) (1995) Siembra Directa, Primer Encuentro de Productores, Organizaciones y Técnicos, Asunción, La Rural Ediciones. Mosher, A. T. (1971) To Create a Modern Agriculture, Organization and Planning, New York, Agricultural Development Council, Inc. Palm, Cheryl A., et al. (1997) “Combined Use of Organic and Inorganic Nutrient Sources for Soil Fertility Maintenance and Replenishment,” in Roland J. Buresh, et al., eds., Replenishing Soil Fertility in Africa, SSSA Special Publication No. 51, Madison, Wisconsin, Soil Science Society of America (SSSA) and International Center for Research in Agroforestry (ICRAF). Pretty, Jules and Rachel Hine (2000) Feeding the World with Sustainable Agriculture, A Summary of New Evidence, Colchester, UK, University of Essex. Primavesi, Ana (1982) Manejo Ecológico del Suelo, La Agricultura en Regiones Tropicales, Quinta Edición, Buenos Aires, Librería “El Ateneo” Editorial. Quiñones, Marco A., et al. (1997) in Roland J. Buresh, et al., eds., Replenishing Soil Fertility in Africa, SSSA Special Publication No. 51, Madison, Wisconsin, Soil Science Society of America (SSSA) and International Center for Research in Agroforestry (ICRAF). Thurston, H. David (1997) Slash/Mulch Systems: Sustainable Methods for Tropical Agriculture, Boulder, Colorado, Westview Press. Uphoff, Norman (2000) “How Can ‘The Biological Maximum’ for Rice be Exceeded? Possible Explanations for the High Yields Observed with the System of Rice Intensification (SRI),” draft copy, printed paper. Young, Anthony (1989) Agroforestry for Soil Conservation, Oxon, UK, C.A.B International. ===== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sincerely, Lion Kuntz Santa Rosa, California, USA - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/ http://P4P.blogspot.com http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/Palaces_For_The_People.html http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Challenges/Asia_Floods/Wet/All_Wet.html http://www.ecosyn.us/Interesting/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Tue Dec 09 11:15:54 2003 X-UIDL: 368602777 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A1ADCBD6003E; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 09:52:29 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 15B42AB35; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:52:25 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71F1AB07 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:52:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBA0AAB8 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004842D@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 9:53:01 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 66351 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:53:00 -0500 Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00048426@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 9:52:59 -0500 Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:52:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3BE64.05289AA0" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:52:08 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: "William B. Thomas" Subject: National Agricultural Library upgrades Online Public Catalog To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368602777 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3BE64.05289AA0 Content-Type: text/plain National Agricultural Library upgrades AGRICOLA Online Public Catalog Contact: Len Carey (301) 504-6778 lcarey@nal.usda.gov BELTSVILLE, Md., December 8, 2003 - The National Agricultural Library (NAL) has released a significant upgrade to its Web-based AGRICOLA catalog of records for the materials in its collection. The new version of AGRICOLA provides improved access--many new search and retrieval capabilities, with daily updates--to over 4 million bibliographic records, the world's largest compilation of agricultural information. The new AGRICOLA catalog, which replaces AGRICOLA98, is one of several modules implemented in NAL's migration to Endeavor's Voyager library system. In addition to a search and retrieval engine for AGRICOLA, the new Voyager system supports NAL's acquisitions, serials control, cataloging, indexing, and circulation operations. Other features of NAL's new AGRICOLA catalog include: * Users may search the catalog of books, journals and non-print items; search the catalog of article records for the journals indexed; or search the two catalog databases combined. * Users may choose either to display results of searches, or to e-mail the search-results to themselves. * Hotlinks enable users to obtain the full text of resources, where available electronically. Future enhancements to the new AGRICOLA will include user-initiated requests for patrons who have document delivery and borrowing privileges. The National Agricultural Library and Endeavor are working with Relais International to develop a fully electronic request and delivery management system linked to the AGRICOLA bibliographic and holdings records. NAL plans to implement the document delivery system in late spring 2004 (www.nal.usda.gov/spevents/relais.html). Access to the new AGRICOLA online public catalog is through agricola.nal.usda.gov. Users visiting the former AGRICOLA98 address will be automatically redirected to the new location. The National Agricultural Library, located in Beltsville, Md., is part of the Agricultural Research Service, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. NAL is one of four U.S. national libraries, and is known for an expert staff, extensive AGRICOLA bibliographic database, leadership in information services and technology applications, and strong collections in agriculture and related sciences. *********************************************** The Alternative Farming Systems Information Center Collecting, Organizing and Distributing Critical Information for our Future AFSIC is a dynamic collection and distribution center focusing on sustainable, organic and alternative agricultural information. AFSIC is staffed by a professional team of librarians and subject specialists who facilitate rapid access to critical information resources on alternatives to conventional agriculture. AFSIC has been an integral part of the National Agricultural Library since 1985, and is a critical element of the overall USDA effort to insure a sustainable future for American farmers and global agriculture. Contact: * Phone: 301-504-6559 (8 a.m. - 5 p.m., M-F, EST) * Fax: 301-504-6927 * Email: afsic@nal.usda.gov * Web: http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/ *********************************************** ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3BE64.05289AA0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

National = Agricultural Library upgrades AGRICOLA Online Public Catalog

 

Contact: Len Carey = (301) 504-6778

lcarey@nal.usda.gov

 

BELTSVILLE, Md., = December 8, 2003 - The National Agricultural Library = (NAL) has released a significant upgrade to its Web-based AGRICOLA catalog of = records for the materials in its collection. The new version of AGRICOLA = provides improved access--many new search and retrieval capabilities, with daily updates--to over 4 million bibliographic records, the world's largest = compilation of agricultural information.

 

The new AGRICOLA = catalog, which replaces AGRICOLA98, is one of several modules implemented in = NAL's migration to Endeavor's Voyager library system. In addition to a search = and retrieval engine for AGRICOLA, the new Voyager system supports NAL's acquisitions, serials control, cataloging, indexing, and circulation operations.

 

Other features of = NAL's new AGRICOLA catalog include:

 

    = * Users may search the catalog of books, journals and non-print items; search = the catalog of article records for the journals indexed; or search the two = catalog databases combined.

 

    = * Users may choose either to display results of searches, or to e-mail the search-results to themselves.

 

    = * Hotlinks enable users to obtain the full text of resources, where = available electronically.

 

Future = enhancements to the new AGRICOLA will include user-initiated requests for patrons who have = document delivery and borrowing privileges. The National Agricultural Library = and Endeavor are working with Relais International to develop a fully = electronic request and delivery management system linked to the AGRICOLA = bibliographic and holdings records. NAL plans to implement the document delivery system = in late spring 2004 (www.nal.usda.gov/spevents= /relais.html).

 

Access to the new = AGRICOLA online public catalog is through agricola.nal.usda.gov. Users visiting = the former AGRICOLA98 address will be automatically redirected to the new = location.

 

The National = Agricultural Library, located in Beltsville, Md., is part of the Agricultural Research Service, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's = chief scientific research agency. NAL is one of four U.S. national libraries, and is known for an expert staff, extensive = AGRICOLA bibliographic database, leadership in information services and = technology applications, and strong collections in agriculture and related = sciences.

 

 

***********************************************

The Alternative Farming Systems Information Center

Collecting, Organizing and = Distributing Critical Information for our Future

AFSIC is a dynamic collection and distribution center focusing on sustainable, organic and alternative = agricultural information. 

AFSIC is staffed by a professional = team of librarians and subject specialists who facilitate rapid access to = critical information resources on alternatives to conventional agriculture.  =

AFSIC has been an integral part of = the National Agricultural Library since 1985, and is a critical element of = the overall USDA effort to insure a sustainable future for American farmers = and global agriculture.

Contact:

  • Phone: 301-504-6559 = (8 a.m. - 5 p.m., M-F, EST) =
  • Fax: = 301-504-6927
  • Email: afsic@nal.usda.gov<= /li>
  • Web: = http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/

***********************************************

 

 

&NBSP;

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To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:

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&NBSP;

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C3BE64.05289AA0-- From - Fri Jan 09 21:12:41 2004 X-UIDL: 368606278 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ABFA534200F8; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:48:58 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 5522ABB2F; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:48:58 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392F7BA72 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC936BA6C for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:48:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004E6DB@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:49:57 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 46161 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:49:57 -0500 Received: from web11208.mail.yahoo.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004E6DA@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:49:57 -0500 Received: from [67.124.111.30] by web11208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:48:54 PST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <20040110004854.8591.qmail@web11208.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:48:54 -0800 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Lion Kuntz Subject: Your Challenge Accepted -- Here are links to data To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040109181048.027c0640@gwpop.wvu.edu> Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368606278 --- James Kotcon wrote: [snip] > I would be interested in any data > challenging my assumption that > the same physical, chemical, and biological > phenomena occur in both > conventional and organic systems. > > Jim Kotcon Oh, where to start... Firstly, seek out studies demonstrating the "burn-off" of organic matter in chemical nitrogen fertilized soils. As N is often a leading limiting factor in soils preventing population explosions of mibrobial life, additions of pure N are all that are needed to ignite this explosion. Soon thereafter the other nutrients are incorporated in the dominant lifeforms. A secondary population explosion goes on of their predators. The high turnover of microbes reduces the C ratio be exhalation of CO2. The rapid loss of carbon seriously affects the tilth qualities of the soils. Only photosynthesizers can add C from the atmosphere Then seek out the studies on actinomycetes phosphate-pump soil function. With the reduced C comes the death of the actinomycetes, whom cannot sustain the phosphorus transfer from high to low gradients. Increased dependancy on phosphate inputs are now required. With depleted C mobile N has fewer binding sites and leaching problems can occur. Plus more frequent applications of higher levels of N become necessary. Organic systems do not add external N whatsoever, but grow it directly on the spot in many cases, but some add compost or manures to add OM including bound N. Reduced C levels also has drastically lower mycorrhizia populations, which stresses the plants required to more work to obtain their nutrients. High levels of organic material buffer pH, and greatly improve plant-availability of nutrients bound to the many binding sites on the molecules. The diverse micro-ecosystems supports a great myriad of organisms which burrow, tunnel and churn the soil, aerating it and making nutrients available to the community through their wide toolkits of chemotrophy, lithotrophy and metabolic acids/enzymes. Your statement indicates you have not made the most superficial comparison of the two diverse paradigms. Here are starting links pages I collected several years ago. If links are dead, try them on the waybackmachine.com archives: http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/SoilLife/Soil_Life_01.html Other collections of pages on thems can be found here: http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/VisualLinks01.html In fact, here are the contents of my ecoag-links: http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Links_Files.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/alcohol_distill_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/biomass_crops_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/chicken_manure01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/duckweed_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/earthworms_01.htm http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/easy_mushrooms_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/eco-san_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/eco-san_refs_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/eco-san-safety-01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/herbs_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/Hog_Pollution.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/low_tech_mushrooms01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/mesclun_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/microdiversity.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/nutrition_protein_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/pathogen_safety_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/rabbit_manure01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/sprouting_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/water_hyacinth01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/Water_Pure_WH_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Ag_Biomass/Ag_Biomass_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Bamboo/Bamboo_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Biodiversity/Biodiversity_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/CompanionPlanting/CompanionPlanting_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/WOFE/Homeless_Women_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Knowledgebase/Knowledgebase_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/MushroomTek/MushroomTek_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/MushroomTek/MushroomTek_02.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/ProtectedGrowing/ProtectedGrowing_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Rabbits/Rabbits_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Santa_Cruz/Santa_Cruz_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Sebastopol/Sebastopol_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/SoilLife/Soil_Life_01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/Visual_Links_Pages.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/VisualLinks01.html http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/Visual_Pages/WastesRecycling/WastesRecycling_01.html Last updated 17.2.2003 ===== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sincerely, Lion Kuntz Santa Rosa, California, USA - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Suggested Websites: Wesley Clark for President http://www.clark04.com/ http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Ecosyn/Flowchart.html http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Ecosyn/IBS_Math.html http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/Palaces_For_The_People.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/ http://P4P.blogspot.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Sun Jan 18 15:40:00 2004 X-UIDL: 368607151 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A7C663A8011C; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:38 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id F41FFB96C; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:38 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75AFB948 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEC8B8FB for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004FECA@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 18 Jan 2004 15:09:21 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 53416 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:09:20 -0500 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004FEC4@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 18 Jan 2004 15:09:20 -0500 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id d.193.24c7750d (2168) for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:09 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <193.24c7750d.2d3c41a9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:09 EST Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Elaine Ingham Subject: Re: help on a planting problem To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368607151 Dale gives some good suggestions. Test and see what plants will be stunted or prevented from growing. But I would also get out there now, if possible, and enhance the biology that will break down the toxics. We've done a little work with several herbicides on golf and sports turf, in the New York, New Jersey and Philadelphia areas, and if you are interested in the data, I can pass your name on to the people who did the work, and they will get back to you if they are interested. Sorry, not in the scientific literature and not ever likely to be. Actively aerated compost tea was applied to the snow surface. Improved litter decomposition was observed after the snow melted. Improved organism numbers were observed on the litter and were apparently decomposing plant debris under the snow, in the zone of free water under the insulation of snow. This has been reported several times in the scientific literature, the first report that I am aware in a paper back in 1986. Plant litter material was decomposing under the snow. Herbicides had been used on both the sports turf and the golf greens. There was no noticable herbicide residual impact in these turf areas the next spring. Presumably the herbicides had been degraded along with the plant litter material. We did a study two years ago showing that dioxin was decomposed below regulatory levels within two months of adding compost tea (we selected for a diversity of organisms that were known to attack dioxin-like substrates). So, using Actively Aerated Compost Tea suggests a possible approach to reducing the herbicide. But apply it now, at about 15 to 20 gal per acre, depending on how good the tea is. By good, I mean adequate biology in the tea. Many herbicides are broken down rapidly by a certain set of fungi (which do not grow on any plate media that we know about), and we need to make sure those fungi are present in the tea. that means they need to be in the compost you use. Chat with me about where you find that kind of compost. If you don't have a way to apply a liquid in the winter (application of a water based material is "fun" when the temperature in below freezing), then wait until the soil warms to 45 to 50 degrees, and apply 15 to 20 gal of the compost tea to the soil surface. Roll the seeds you want to plant in a combination of actively aerated compost tea and mycorrhizal spores. Some evidence that colonization of the roots of the plants by the fungi will alleviate impacts of toxic material on the roots. Presumably, protection from the herbicide could occur. Finally, application of the actively aerated compost tea to the foliage of the plant, as suggested by a previous poster, might be beneficial in protecting the plant from foliar problems, but you really need to start to decompose the herbicide before the seeds go on the soil. So, it may be possible to start the remediation effort now, during the winter, if you have snow on the soil surface. Otherwise, get the compost tea down ASAP in the spring, at least two weeks before planting the seeds. Use Dale's suggestions to test to determine if the Actively Aerated Compost Tea actually helped reduce a residual effect (soil without the tea, soil with the tea, plant seeds of something that should be affected by the herbicide, and watch plant growth). You need biologically active, high fungal species diversity, aerobic compost tea. Please check the International Compost Tea Council website - www.intlctc.com is the website address, or check www.soilfoodweb.com - we've just added a whole new section on compost tea on the website. Please let me know what happens! Elaine Ingham President, Soil Foodweb Inc. www.soilfoodweb.com SFI Oregon, USA SFI Australia SFI New York SFI Europe SFI New Zealand "Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out." -- Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Sun Jan 18 15:40:00 2004 X-UIDL: 368607151 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A7C663A8011C; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:38 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id F41FFB96C; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:38 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75AFB948 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEC8B8FB for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004FECA@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 18 Jan 2004 15:09:21 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 53416 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:09:20 -0500 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0004FEC4@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 18 Jan 2004 15:09:20 -0500 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id d.193.24c7750d (2168) for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:09 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <193.24c7750d.2d3c41a9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:08:09 EST Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Elaine Ingham Subject: Re: help on a planting problem To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368607151 Dale gives some good suggestions. Test and see what plants will be stunted or prevented from growing. But I would also get out there now, if possible, and enhance the biology that will break down the toxics. We've done a little work with several herbicides on golf and sports turf, in the New York, New Jersey and Philadelphia areas, and if you are interested in the data, I can pass your name on to the people who did the work, and they will get back to you if they are interested. Sorry, not in the scientific literature and not ever likely to be. Actively aerated compost tea was applied to the snow surface. Improved litter decomposition was observed after the snow melted. Improved organism numbers were observed on the litter and were apparently decomposing plant debris under the snow, in the zone of free water under the insulation of snow. This has been reported several times in the scientific literature, the first report that I am aware in a paper back in 1986. Plant litter material was decomposing under the snow. Herbicides had been used on both the sports turf and the golf greens. There was no noticable herbicide residual impact in these turf areas the next spring. Presumably the herbicides had been degraded along with the plant litter material. We did a study two years ago showing that dioxin was decomposed below regulatory levels within two months of adding compost tea (we selected for a diversity of organisms that were known to attack dioxin-like substrates). So, using Actively Aerated Compost Tea suggests a possible approach to reducing the herbicide. But apply it now, at about 15 to 20 gal per acre, depending on how good the tea is. By good, I mean adequate biology in the tea. Many herbicides are broken down rapidly by a certain set of fungi (which do not grow on any plate media that we know about), and we need to make sure those fungi are present in the tea. that means they need to be in the compost you use. Chat with me about where you find that kind of compost. If you don't have a way to apply a liquid in the winter (application of a water based material is "fun" when the temperature in below freezing), then wait until the soil warms to 45 to 50 degrees, and apply 15 to 20 gal of the compost tea to the soil surface. Roll the seeds you want to plant in a combination of actively aerated compost tea and mycorrhizal spores. Some evidence that colonization of the roots of the plants by the fungi will alleviate impacts of toxic material on the roots. Presumably, protection from the herbicide could occur. Finally, application of the actively aerated compost tea to the foliage of the plant, as suggested by a previous poster, might be beneficial in protecting the plant from foliar problems, but you really need to start to decompose the herbicide before the seeds go on the soil. So, it may be possible to start the remediation effort now, during the winter, if you have snow on the soil surface. Otherwise, get the compost tea down ASAP in the spring, at least two weeks before planting the seeds. Use Dale's suggestions to test to determine if the Actively Aerated Compost Tea actually helped reduce a residual effect (soil without the tea, soil with the tea, plant seeds of something that should be affected by the herbicide, and watch plant growth). You need biologically active, high fungal species diversity, aerobic compost tea. Please check the International Compost Tea Council website - www.intlctc.com is the website address, or check www.soilfoodweb.com - we've just added a whole new section on compost tea on the website. Please let me know what happens! Elaine Ingham President, Soil Foodweb Inc. www.soilfoodweb.com SFI Oregon, USA SFI Australia SFI New York SFI Europe SFI New Zealand "Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out." -- Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html From - Thu Jan 22 03:21:10 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 FCC: mailbox://lfl@pop.intrex.net/Sent X-Identity-Key: id4 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:21:10 -0800 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lfl@intrex.net Subject: Steve Diver: Re: ACRES observations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:43:38 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Re: ACRES observations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hey, it was Carey Reams who used the terms anionic and cationic in a different manner than common usage in chemical textbooks. But so what, Carey Reams was a clairovoyant medical doctor and chemistry genius who became an ecofarming advisor to raise nutritionally sound produce for humans.... since conventional produce had gotten so poor. One of the large farms in California reduced their pesticide bill by half a million dollars after adopting the Reams fertility program.... since the Reams approach pays close to attention to healthy plants. I doubt the farm manager worried about terminology that "conformed", eh? Neal Kinsey was a student of William Albrecht at Univ of Missouri, and thank goodness because Kinsey can teach the Albrecht soil test calcuations and explain the Albrecht soil fertility approach better than any book. Don Schriefer has two books and they provide an excellent overview of the ecofarming approach to soil management. "From the Soil Up" and "Agriculture in Transition." Gary Zimmer's book is really good, "The Biological Farmer", so are the booklets from Midwestern Bio-Ag: "Crop Pests and Fertilizers - Is There a Connection", "Roots - The Hidden Half".... so is their soil fertilty manual that explains Albrecht-style soil test interpretation in detail. Steve Diver http://www.attra.ncat.org Art Petrzelka wrote: >Thanks, Joel, for your critique. I appreciate the time that you took to >help meout. > >The chemistry and scientific method in Acres U.S.A. is atrocious if you >try to treat it as traditional chemistry. When reading Neal Kinsey's >Hand's on Agronomy, I had to suspend my prior assumptions of chemistry, >small as they are, so that I could try to understand what he was saying. >That group has its own terminology, which can unfortunately be mistaken >for chemistry. Kinsey's use of anion/cation, for instance, is contrary >to common usage. > >Maybe I'm more amenable to this because of my education as an engineer. >We're used to warping science to fit practical matters. The Chemistry, >Math and Physics profs used to hate to teach us. They thought that we >were hopelessly inaccurate. :-) I almost said imprecise, because that >is the engineer's most feared fault. Precision over accuracy, that's our >game! > >But, back to chemistry, I don't know of any other game in town that >addresses the minor minerals. I got soil tests through the state >extension service last spring. All I get is NPK, organic matter (which >was excellent) and pH. Two of those five are going to vary quite a bit >over the season. It was a cheap test, but the results I got weren't >worth the time and effort. > >I got some names of soil testing labs through ATTRA, and have identified >ten labs that do more than NPK. Only two of them do not appear to be >associated with one of the Albrecht-derivative firms that advertise in >Acres U.S.A: University of Maine and MDS Harris. The number and mix of >minerals that are tested for vary from firm to firm. I just checked one, >and it tests for twelve minerals, not the 17 that you mentioned for >plants, or even the 15 or so that Albrecht mentions. > >What's a farmer to do? It seems that I have to take some chaff with the >wheat, and hope I can winnow it out on my own. I believe that those >minor minerals are important, and I don't know how to get them balanced >without going through Acres. They are the only resource I have right >now. > >A minor quibble with the chart in "Has your soil got guts?": They >shifted the axes on the graph, and read it off the unshifted axes. The >elements that are in shortest supply are H, N & C, not N, P, S & C as >stated. Shortage is indicated by maximum distance from the 45 degree >(shifted) axis. > >I ordered "From the Soil Up" by Donald Schiefer, and am looking forward >to learning more. > >If you were going to recommend any one book, or small set of books, for >a farmer to study, what would you pick? -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech From - Thu Jan 22 03:16:19 2004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 FCC: mailbox://lfl@pop.intrex.net/Sent X-Identity-Key: id4 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:16:19 -0800 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lfl@intrex.net Subject: Steve Diver: Black soldier fly larvae for organic waste bioconversion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:23:38 -0600 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: Black soldier fly larvae for organic waste bioconversion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Black soldier fly larvae for organic waste bioconversion 1. Dr. Paul Olivier with Engineering, Separation and Recycling LLC in Louisiana shared resources on black soldier fly larvae on the U.S. Compost Countil List.... USCC. The Bio-Conversion of Putrescent Wastes with Black Soldier Fly Larvae http://www.esrla.com/brazil/frame.htm Interestingly, he is author of..... The Universe is One, Towards a Theory of Knowledge and Life by Paul A. Olivier http://www.amazon.com 2. A collection of resources on BSF were posted on USCC in June 2003: USCC Web Email Archives http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/ 2003-June Archives by Subject http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2003-June/subject.html 3. Jacky Foo with Integrated Biosystems Network of IOBB hosted an electronic workshop on BSF. See the papers and discussion at: Black Soldier Fly and Waste Recycling/Management http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-jizo.html Here is the agenda with papers: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:43:35 +0200 Sender: Insect Larvae in Organic Waste Recycling & Management From: List-administrator Subject: Papers for e-discussion http://segate.sunet.se/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind02&L=et-jizo&H=1&O=D&P=2300 -----Original Message----- From: Jacky Foo I am happy to announce that the following materials are now available on the web and they will serve as discussion papers for the e-workshop (15 April to 17 May) on "Insect Larvae in Organic Waste Recycling and Management" (1) Paul Olivier (USA). The Bio-Conversion of Putrescent Waste http://www.esrla.com/brasil/frame.htm Or http://www.esrla.com/pdf/Brazil.pdf (2) Kevin Warburton & Vivienne Hallman (Australia). Processing of organic materials by the soldier fly, Hermetia illicens http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/Ras/01-174.pdf Page 118-129 (3) Craig Sheppard (USA). Black Soldier Fly and Others for Value-Added Manure Management Abstract: http://nespal.cpes.peachnet.edu/sustain/fly2.asp Full paper: http://nespal.cpes.peachnet.edu/sustain/ibs_conf.pdf (4) Tran Tan Viet (Vietnam). Mass Production of Insect larvae http://www.esrla.com/tran/index.htm (under construction) (5) Lylian Rodriguez, Siv Kong & Thomas R Preston (Cambodia). Insect larvae as recycling agents: an alternative for the conversion of organic wastes into high quality protein 4. Electronic Forum on Area-Wide Integration of Specialized Crop and Livestock Production hosts a paper by Paul Olivier: Larval Bio-conversion by Paul Olivier http://lead.virtualcentre.org/en/ele/awi_2000/particip/oliver.pdf 5. Animal and Dairy Science at University of Georgia hosts a paper on BSF by Newton and Sheppard. Soldier Fly Benefits: House Fly Control, Manure Volume Reduation, and Manure Nutrient Recycling G. L. Newton, D. C. Sheppard, S. A. Thompson, and S. I. Savage http://www.ads.uga.edu/annrpt/1995/95_311.htm "A USDA Southern Region SARE/ACE grant (LS90-27, A Low Input Manure Management System in Animal Housing for House Fly Control, Waste Reduction and Feed Production) supported much of the research for this report." Best regards, Steve Diver http://www.attra.ncat.org -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech From - Sat Mar 27 02:31:04 2004 X-UIDL: 368613937 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE24259E00E6; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:36 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 86761AEAC; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:36 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DE6AEA8 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 80A0DAE5E for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:35 -0500 (EST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-7807-1080368674-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:34 -0000 X-Sender: steved@ncat.org X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40897 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2004 06:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:31 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "Steve Diver" X-Originating-IP: 130.184.56.141 X-Yahoo-Profile: steved3602002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:24:30 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Observing Microbial Biofilms on Leaf Surfaces + Isolation of Culturable Micr Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Note: Total weight is 5. NOABUSE, SUBJSPACES-10, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368613937 Hi Bob - SFI uses fluorescein diacetate (FDA) in combination with epifluorescent microscopy to measure active microbial biomass, and a range of microscopy methods for all the different parameters they measure. Elaine can provide exact details. Elaine's methodologies were developd through graduate and post-graduate research going back to early 1980s. See a bibliography of her papers at: Sunburst Nominees with SFI | Australia http://www.sunnom.com.au/sfi/members.htm For example: Ingham, E. R., and D. A. Klein. 1984. Soil fungi: relationships between hyphal activity and staining with fluorescein diacetate. Soil Biology and Biochemistry 16:273-278. Ingham, E.R. and D.A. Klein. (1984). Soil fungi: Measurement of hyphal length. Soil Biol. Biochem. 16:279-280. Stamatiadis, S., J.W. Doran and E.R. Ingham. (1990). Use of staining and inhibitors to separate fungal and bacterial activity in soil. Soil Biol. Biochem. 22:81-88. Mary Appelhof published an article in WormEzine (August 2003) that summarized the SFI lab techniques: "Another capability that Dr. Ingham has is to determine which cells are active at the time the lab receives the samples. Many bacteria, protozoa, and fungi would be in a dormant or inactive state. Others are actively metabolizing at the time they make the preparation. By adding fluorescein diacetate (FDA) to the preparations, any cell whose mitochondria are active take up the FDA. When the technicians look at the sample using ultraviolet light with the microscope, the active cells show up a bright fluorescent yellow/green. By using a dark field on the microscope the bright yellow-green cells show up very readily, enabling the viewer to ascertain the number of active bacteria, fungi, or protozoa as compared with the total numbers or hyphal length." Etc... keep reading, this article provides an excellent summary of SFI procedures. WormEzine Vol. 2, No. 7 August 2003 http://www.wormwoman.com/acatalog/WormEzine_2-7.pdf FDA and acridine orange (used in the French study) are fluorochromes. There's a whole bunch of the fluorochromes. See: Nikon Microscopy: Yellow Fluorescent Protein (YFP) Filter Set http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/fluorescence/f iltercubes/yfp/yfphome.html Fluorochromes and recommended filter pairs http://www.mtxlsi.com/fluorofilters.htm Regards, Steve Diver --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "bobkacalek" wrote: > Hi Steve, > Thanks for sharing, very interesting. > The advantage of quality ACT is the abundance of diversity in Micro- > organisms delivered vs one or two specific cultures. > Are the methods described (Epifluorescence microscopy, scanning > electron microscopy, and confocal laser scanning microscopy were used > to observe microbial biofilms directly on leaf surfaces)similar to > methods used by SFI? Maybe Dr. E will respond? > Thanks Again, > bob > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Fri Mar 26 13:43:53 2004 X-UIDL: 368613893 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AFC3EB660128; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 59438BEA0; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D778BE96 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 62A09BDC7 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:18 -0500 (EST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-7805-1080319937-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2004 16:52:18 -0000 X-Sender: steved@ncat.org X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42914 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2004 16:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2004 16:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2004 16:52:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2004 16:51:53 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Steve Diver" X-Originating-IP: 130.184.56.141 X-Yahoo-Profile: steved3602002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:51:49 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Observing Microbial Biofilms on Leaf Surfaces + Isolation of Culturable Microbes Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Note: Total weight is 5. NOABUSE, SUBJSPACES-10, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368613893 APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY, Apr. 1997, p. 1570=961576 Methods for Observing Microbial Biofilms Directly on Leaf Surfaces=20 and Recovering Them for=09 http://nature.berkeley.edu/icelab/jmm/aem97.pdf CINDY E. MORRIS, JEAN-MICHEL MONIER, AND MARIE-AGNE`S JACQUES Station de Pathologie Ve=B4ge=B4tale, INRA, Domaine St. Maurice, France ABSTRACT Epifluorescence microscopy, scanning electron microscopy, and confocal laser scanning microscopy were used to observe microbial biofilms directly on leaf surfaces. Biofilms were observed on leaves of all species sampled (spinach, lettuce, Chinese cabbage, celery, leeks, basil, parsley, and broad-leaved endive), although the epifluorescent images were clearest when pale green tissue or cuticle pieces were=20 used. With these techniques, biofilms were observed that were about=20 20 mm in depth and up to 1 mm in length and that contained copious exopolymeric matrices, diverse morphotypes of microorganisms, and debris. The epifluorescence techniques described here can be used to rapidly determine the abundance and localization of biofilms on=20 leaves. An additional technique was developed to recover individual biofilms or portions of single biofilms from leaves and to=20 disintegrate them for isolation of the culturable microorganisms=20 they contained. Nineteen biofilms from broad-leaved endive, spinach, parsley, and olive leaves were thus isolated and characterized to illustrate the applications of this technique. Excerpts: INTRODUCTION It is well documented that leaves of herbaceous and woody plants are colonized by numerous species of bacteria, yeasts, and filamentous fungi... In many environments, it is common to find assemblages of microorganisms adherent to each other and/or to a surface and embedded in a matrix of exopolymers (8). These assemblages are referred to as biofilms... (i) Biofilms are composed of an exopolymeric matrix and multiple=20 layers of microbial cells leading to the creation of physical=20 barriers and the establishment of chemical gradients. (ii) They generally contain multiple species of microorganisms, fostering metabolic and genetic exchange. (iii) Many biofilm cells are=20 attached to a surface... MATERIALS AND METHODS Plant material. Leaves were sampled from commercially produced=20 spinach (Spinacia oleracea), Battavian lettuce (Lactuca sativa), Chinese cabbage (Brassica campestris subsp. pekinensis),=20 celery (Apium graveolens), leeks (Allium porrum), basil=20 (Ocimum basilicum), and parsley (Petroselinum crispum) purchased=20 at a local supermarket. Leaves of broad-leaved endive (Cichorium endivia var. latifolia, cultivar Samy) were collected from mature plants in experimental field plots cultivated as described=20 previously (18) in Montfavet, France, or purchased at a=20 supermarket... Preparation of plant material for microscopic observation. Leaves=20 of all plants except parsley were cut into squares of approximately=20 1 by 1 cm. For some leaves of broad-leaved endive, the cuticle=20 was also peeled off. Parsley leaflets were cut off the petioles=20 but were not cut into pieces. For epifluorescence microscopy,=20 leaflets, leaf pieces, or cuticle pieces were soaked in a solution=20 of acridine orange (0.01% in acetate buffer [pH 4]) for 2 min,=20 rinsed twice in distilled water, set on microscope slides, and=20 observed with an Olympus BHS microscope (Olympus Optical, Co.,=20 Tokyo, Japan; light source model BH.RFL.W) under UV light=20 filtered through a blue filter... RESULTS In situ observation. Aggregates of microorganisms embedded in an exopolymeric matrix were observed on all leaf material stained with acridine orange and examined by epifluorescence light microscopy, including broad-leaved endive (Fig. 1), spinach, lettuce, Chinese cabbage, celery, leeks, basil,=20 and parsley. Epifluorescence microscopic images of biofilms on broad-leaved endive were of the best resolution either when the cuticle was peeled from the leaf surface and mounted under a coverslide (Fig. 1A) or when biofilms were located on flat, etiolated portions of the leaf.... Biofilms were observed on all parts of the leaves (margin, base, and upper and lower surfaces). In the case of broadleaved endive, we observed about 100 biofilms. These biofilms were found most often at the leaf base and were rarely on the margin of green leaf tissue. About 90% of them were attached to trichomes (Fig. 1A and C).... SEM examination of leaf surfaces confirmed that biofilms could be readily observed on naturally contaminated leaf=20 surfaces. Biofilms observed by SEM were as large as 1 mm=20 in length (Fig. 2) or were in networks extending for several millimeters and were composed of a copious exopolymer matrix and numerous microbial morphotypes resembling bacteria,=20 filamentous fungi, and yeasts as well as debris-like particles. DISCUSSION The techniques reported here permitted us to illustrate that biofilms in the phyllosphere may be tens of micrometers thick, may have a copious exopolymeric matrix, and may form extensive networks several millimeters long.... The isolation technique described in this study allows for collection of a wide range of bacteria and other microorganisms coexisting in close physical proximity... Using the technique presented here, we have illustrated that=20 diverse microorganisms, including both gram-positive and=20 gram-negative bacteria as well as yeasts and filamentous fungi,=20 may inhabit the same biofilm in the phyllosphere as has been=20 observed in other environments (4, 22, 28)... The isolation technique we describe here will allow phyllosphere=20 ecologists to determine which microorganisms are frequently=20 associated in biofilms. This may lead to the identification of=20 saprophytic organisms that play a role in plant disease processes=20 incited by phytopathogenic organisms with which they are associated=20 or may help to explain mechanisms of genetic exchange observed on leaf surfaces... Characterization of the microbial components of individual=20 biofilms in the phyllosphere may lead to new hypotheses about=20 trophic interactions or chemical communication among these=20 organisms. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SD comment:=20 Compost teas have significant influence on microorganism populations in the rhizophere and phyllosphere.=20=20 While biofilms are problematic in compost tea brewers,=20 they are normal and beneficial in the phyllosphere.=20 This paper elucidates direct observation of phyllosphere organisms, and alludes to culture methods to isolate=20 microorganisms.=20=20=20 Isolation of soil and compost microbes for identification by gas chromatography, following by culturing of selected=20 beneficial strains in fermentation flasks, then adding back=20 into compost teas prior to field application, as a liquid=20 biological injection into irrigation lines, has been done=20 by Midwest BioSystems in conjunction with Agri-Energy Resources Lab, for example.=20 Steve Diver =20 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ =20 From - Fri Mar 26 13:43:53 2004 X-UIDL: 368613893 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AFC3EB660128; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 59438BEA0; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D778BE96 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 62A09BDC7 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:52:18 -0500 (EST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-7805-1080319937-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2004 16:52:18 -0000 X-Sender: steved@ncat.org X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42914 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2004 16:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2004 16:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2004 16:52:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2004 16:51:53 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Steve Diver" X-Originating-IP: 130.184.56.141 X-Yahoo-Profile: steved3602002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:51:49 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Observing Microbial Biofilms on Leaf Surfaces + Isolation of Culturable Microbes Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Note: Total weight is 5. NOABUSE, SUBJSPACES-10, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368613893 APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY, Apr. 1997, p. 1570=961576 Methods for Observing Microbial Biofilms Directly on Leaf Surfaces=20 and Recovering Them for=09 http://nature.berkeley.edu/icelab/jmm/aem97.pdf CINDY E. MORRIS, JEAN-MICHEL MONIER, AND MARIE-AGNE`S JACQUES Station de Pathologie Ve=B4ge=B4tale, INRA, Domaine St. Maurice, France ABSTRACT Epifluorescence microscopy, scanning electron microscopy, and confocal laser scanning microscopy were used to observe microbial biofilms directly on leaf surfaces. Biofilms were observed on leaves of all species sampled (spinach, lettuce, Chinese cabbage, celery, leeks, basil, parsley, and broad-leaved endive), although the epifluorescent images were clearest when pale green tissue or cuticle pieces were=20 used. With these techniques, biofilms were observed that were about=20 20 mm in depth and up to 1 mm in length and that contained copious exopolymeric matrices, diverse morphotypes of microorganisms, and debris. The epifluorescence techniques described here can be used to rapidly determine the abundance and localization of biofilms on=20 leaves. An additional technique was developed to recover individual biofilms or portions of single biofilms from leaves and to=20 disintegrate them for isolation of the culturable microorganisms=20 they contained. Nineteen biofilms from broad-leaved endive, spinach, parsley, and olive leaves were thus isolated and characterized to illustrate the applications of this technique. Excerpts: INTRODUCTION It is well documented that leaves of herbaceous and woody plants are colonized by numerous species of bacteria, yeasts, and filamentous fungi... In many environments, it is common to find assemblages of microorganisms adherent to each other and/or to a surface and embedded in a matrix of exopolymers (8). These assemblages are referred to as biofilms... (i) Biofilms are composed of an exopolymeric matrix and multiple=20 layers of microbial cells leading to the creation of physical=20 barriers and the establishment of chemical gradients. (ii) They generally contain multiple species of microorganisms, fostering metabolic and genetic exchange. (iii) Many biofilm cells are=20 attached to a surface... MATERIALS AND METHODS Plant material. Leaves were sampled from commercially produced=20 spinach (Spinacia oleracea), Battavian lettuce (Lactuca sativa), Chinese cabbage (Brassica campestris subsp. pekinensis),=20 celery (Apium graveolens), leeks (Allium porrum), basil=20 (Ocimum basilicum), and parsley (Petroselinum crispum) purchased=20 at a local supermarket. Leaves of broad-leaved endive (Cichorium endivia var. latifolia, cultivar Samy) were collected from mature plants in experimental field plots cultivated as described=20 previously (18) in Montfavet, France, or purchased at a=20 supermarket... Preparation of plant material for microscopic observation. Leaves=20 of all plants except parsley were cut into squares of approximately=20 1 by 1 cm. For some leaves of broad-leaved endive, the cuticle=20 was also peeled off. Parsley leaflets were cut off the petioles=20 but were not cut into pieces. For epifluorescence microscopy,=20 leaflets, leaf pieces, or cuticle pieces were soaked in a solution=20 of acridine orange (0.01% in acetate buffer [pH 4]) for 2 min,=20 rinsed twice in distilled water, set on microscope slides, and=20 observed with an Olympus BHS microscope (Olympus Optical, Co.,=20 Tokyo, Japan; light source model BH.RFL.W) under UV light=20 filtered through a blue filter... RESULTS In situ observation. Aggregates of microorganisms embedded in an exopolymeric matrix were observed on all leaf material stained with acridine orange and examined by epifluorescence light microscopy, including broad-leaved endive (Fig. 1), spinach, lettuce, Chinese cabbage, celery, leeks, basil,=20 and parsley. Epifluorescence microscopic images of biofilms on broad-leaved endive were of the best resolution either when the cuticle was peeled from the leaf surface and mounted under a coverslide (Fig. 1A) or when biofilms were located on flat, etiolated portions of the leaf.... Biofilms were observed on all parts of the leaves (margin, base, and upper and lower surfaces). In the case of broadleaved endive, we observed about 100 biofilms. These biofilms were found most often at the leaf base and were rarely on the margin of green leaf tissue. About 90% of them were attached to trichomes (Fig. 1A and C).... SEM examination of leaf surfaces confirmed that biofilms could be readily observed on naturally contaminated leaf=20 surfaces. Biofilms observed by SEM were as large as 1 mm=20 in length (Fig. 2) or were in networks extending for several millimeters and were composed of a copious exopolymer matrix and numerous microbial morphotypes resembling bacteria,=20 filamentous fungi, and yeasts as well as debris-like particles. DISCUSSION The techniques reported here permitted us to illustrate that biofilms in the phyllosphere may be tens of micrometers thick, may have a copious exopolymeric matrix, and may form extensive networks several millimeters long.... The isolation technique described in this study allows for collection of a wide range of bacteria and other microorganisms coexisting in close physical proximity... Using the technique presented here, we have illustrated that=20 diverse microorganisms, including both gram-positive and=20 gram-negative bacteria as well as yeasts and filamentous fungi,=20 may inhabit the same biofilm in the phyllosphere as has been=20 observed in other environments (4, 22, 28)... The isolation technique we describe here will allow phyllosphere=20 ecologists to determine which microorganisms are frequently=20 associated in biofilms. This may lead to the identification of=20 saprophytic organisms that play a role in plant disease processes=20 incited by phytopathogenic organisms with which they are associated=20 or may help to explain mechanisms of genetic exchange observed on leaf surfaces... Characterization of the microbial components of individual=20 biofilms in the phyllosphere may lead to new hypotheses about=20 trophic interactions or chemical communication among these=20 organisms. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SD comment:=20 Compost teas have significant influence on microorganism populations in the rhizophere and phyllosphere.=20=20 While biofilms are problematic in compost tea brewers,=20 they are normal and beneficial in the phyllosphere.=20 This paper elucidates direct observation of phyllosphere organisms, and alludes to culture methods to isolate=20 microorganisms.=20=20=20 Isolation of soil and compost microbes for identification by gas chromatography, following by culturing of selected=20 beneficial strains in fermentation flasks, then adding back=20 into compost teas prior to field application, as a liquid=20 biological injection into irrigation lines, has been done=20 by Midwest BioSystems in conjunction with Agri-Energy Resources Lab, for example.=20 Steve Diver =20 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ =20 From - Sat Mar 27 02:31:04 2004 X-UIDL: 368613937 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE24259E00E6; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:36 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 86761AEAC; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:36 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DE6AEA8 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 80A0DAE5E for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:24:35 -0500 (EST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-7807-1080368674-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:34 -0000 X-Sender: steved@ncat.org X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40897 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2004 06:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2004 06:24:31 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "Steve Diver" X-Originating-IP: 130.184.56.141 X-Yahoo-Profile: steved3602002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:24:30 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Observing Microbial Biofilms on Leaf Surfaces + Isolation of Culturable Micr Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Note: Total weight is 5. NOABUSE, SUBJSPACES-10, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368613937 Hi Bob - SFI uses fluorescein diacetate (FDA) in combination with epifluorescent microscopy to measure active microbial biomass, and a range of microscopy methods for all the different parameters they measure. Elaine can provide exact details. Elaine's methodologies were developd through graduate and post-graduate research going back to early 1980s. See a bibliography of her papers at: Sunburst Nominees with SFI | Australia http://www.sunnom.com.au/sfi/members.htm For example: Ingham, E. R., and D. A. Klein. 1984. Soil fungi: relationships between hyphal activity and staining with fluorescein diacetate. Soil Biology and Biochemistry 16:273-278. Ingham, E.R. and D.A. Klein. (1984). Soil fungi: Measurement of hyphal length. Soil Biol. Biochem. 16:279-280. Stamatiadis, S., J.W. Doran and E.R. Ingham. (1990). Use of staining and inhibitors to separate fungal and bacterial activity in soil. Soil Biol. Biochem. 22:81-88. Mary Appelhof published an article in WormEzine (August 2003) that summarized the SFI lab techniques: "Another capability that Dr. Ingham has is to determine which cells are active at the time the lab receives the samples. Many bacteria, protozoa, and fungi would be in a dormant or inactive state. Others are actively metabolizing at the time they make the preparation. By adding fluorescein diacetate (FDA) to the preparations, any cell whose mitochondria are active take up the FDA. When the technicians look at the sample using ultraviolet light with the microscope, the active cells show up a bright fluorescent yellow/green. By using a dark field on the microscope the bright yellow-green cells show up very readily, enabling the viewer to ascertain the number of active bacteria, fungi, or protozoa as compared with the total numbers or hyphal length." Etc... keep reading, this article provides an excellent summary of SFI procedures. WormEzine Vol. 2, No. 7 August 2003 http://www.wormwoman.com/acatalog/WormEzine_2-7.pdf FDA and acridine orange (used in the French study) are fluorochromes. There's a whole bunch of the fluorochromes. See: Nikon Microscopy: Yellow Fluorescent Protein (YFP) Filter Set http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/fluorescence/f iltercubes/yfp/yfphome.html Fluorochromes and recommended filter pairs http://www.mtxlsi.com/fluorofilters.htm Regards, Steve Diver --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "bobkacalek" wrote: > Hi Steve, > Thanks for sharing, very interesting. > The advantage of quality ACT is the abundance of diversity in Micro- > organisms delivered vs one or two specific cultures. > Are the methods described (Epifluorescence microscopy, scanning > electron microscopy, and confocal laser scanning microscopy were used > to observe microbial biofilms directly on leaf surfaces)similar to > methods used by SFI? Maybe Dr. E will respond? > Thanks Again, > bob > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/0PSxlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From - Thu Apr 01 14:21:04 2004 X-UIDL: 368614296 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A65FC12900B0; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:58:39 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 6976DD2E8; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2D3D2DC for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from intrex.net (client230-16.dsl.intrex.net [209.42.230.16]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8944D2A4 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:58:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406C95BC.8010505@intrex.net> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:20:44 -0800 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lfl@intrex.net Subject: Workshops: "gil carandang", "indigenous microorganisms" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368614296 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:08:16 +0000 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: gil carandang Subject: Re: Tilth Apprentice Placement Service Updated for 2004 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed in a few weeks i will be posting our apprenticeship in tropical organic agriculture at herbana farms in the philippines. it is a six-month program with special focus on natural farming technology. i'll send more details later. thanks, gil carandang herbana farms philippines >From: Chrys Ostrander >Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group > >To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU >Subject: [SANET-MG] Tilth Apprentice Placement Service Updated for 2004 >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:19:40 -0800 > >Tilth Producers is Washington State's Organic and Sustainable growers' >Organization. Each year it publishes the Tilth Apprentice Placement Service >Listing as a way for folks seeking work experience on organic and >sustainable farms to connect with farmers seeking apprentices. > >I have just updated the Placement Service listings for 2004 on the Tilth >Producers website: >http://www.tilthproducers.org. > >Seventy-four farms are listed and their apprentice position openings are >described. Check it out today! > >The actual apprenticeship arrangement will be made directly between the >participating farms and apprentices. As such, the Tilth Placement Service >and the Tilth Producers organization cannot guarantee the satisfaction of >the farmers or the apprentices. > >Yours truly, >Chrys Ostrander >Web Designer for Tilth Producers > > >******************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: >1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by >typing in your e-mail address or; >2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the >list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > >Visit the SANET-MG archives at: >http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main SANET-MG page LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:46:24 +0000 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: gil carandang Subject: Re: your input needed Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you might be interested on an in-depth workshop on indigenous microorganisms, grow your own -- beneficial indigenous microorganisms and bionutrients in natural farming. i did two workshops years 2003 and 2004 for ecofarm conference in monterey, california and did several one-day workshops in california. you may search "gil carandang", "indigenous microorganisms". let me know and i can tailor a workshop on the subject which participants will actually learn how to culture these beneficial indigenous microorganisms, empowering farmers. thanks, gil carandang herbana farms philippines >From: Maura McDermott >Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group > >To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU >Subject: [SANET-MG] your input needed >Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:16:55 -0600 > >Fall Workshops: Your Input Needed > >The Kerr Center is planning The Future Farms 2004 conference for November, >and we need your help. > >In the past, many of our conference attendees have indicated they would >like >more in-depth information than can be conveyed in an hour-long session on >topics that would help them start a new farm enterprise or sustainably >manage existing crops/livestock. So we are planning a conference that will >consist of several in-depth, day or half-day workshops on topics of >interest >to small scale farmers/ranchers in Oklahoma and adjoining states who might >attend. > >We need you to let us know what topic or topics you would like to see >covered in a workshop. Below are a list of possibilities, gleaned from past >conference evaluations. >PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD YOUR OWN IDEA/TOPIC. > >Print this form and mail to: Maura McDermott, Kerr Center, PO Box 588 >Poteau, OK 74953 >Or you may easily email us your suggestions from our web site >www.kerrcenter.com-- this form is online there. Please contact us by May >1. > >Possible Workshop Topics (Please check) > > >Organic _____________(name crops) >__production >__marketing > >__Building healthy soil > >__Season Extension Ideas > >__Rotational/Cell grazing > >__Growing “ethnic” crops > >__CSAs/Subscription Farming > >__Agritourism > >__Raising heritage breeds of livestock > >__Grass-fed beef >__production >__processing/marketing > >__Natural beef >__production >__processing/ marketing > >__Organic beef >__production >__processing/marketing > >__Financing alternative enterprises > >__Business/record keeping for farm enterprises > >__Grants for farmers > >__Herbs >__production >__marketing > >__Honey: >__production >__marketing > >__Cut flowers >__production > __marketing > >__Farmers’ markets: > __how to start > __selling at > >__Producing/selling to schools and institutions > >OTHER_______________________________________________________________________ > >____________________________________________________________________________ > >____________________________________________________________________________ > >___________________________________________ > >Instructors you would like to hear? > >____________________________________________________________________________ >__ > > >Your name, address (optional) > > > >Maura McDermott >Communications Director >Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture >PO Box 588 >Poteau, OK 74953 >918.647.9123 >www.kerrcenter.com > >"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world: and that is >an idea whose time has come." --Victor Hugo > >******************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: >1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by >typing in your e-mail address or; >2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the >list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > >Visit the SANET-MG archives at: >http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main SANET-MG page LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech From - Mon Apr 12 11:43:03 2004 X-UIDL: 368615063 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A31881D600E0; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:28 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id A03A4AB87; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A43DAB82 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 44DDFA9D1 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:27 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-8033-1081778965-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Apr 2004 14:09:26 -0000 X-Sender: Soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18157 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2004 14:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2004 14:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2004 14:09:23 -0000 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id r.117.314dc846 (15901) for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m15.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.131]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d407aa306263; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:10 -0500 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <25F91835.2B72567B.404D8829@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.21.158.7 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.3 From: soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: soilfoodweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:09:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [compost_tea] numbers Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368615063 Hi Anthony - 

I'm out of time!  But here's a first pass at the explanation for you!  Back in two weeks!

Numbers of individuals in soil.  OK, here goes. 

That's not possible to say, really, for fungi.  A fungal individual is difficult to know for certain.  Plate counts mess up on that measurement - in general, plate counts give you "how many spores of fungi and pieces of hyphal strands were the fungi broken into when you shook your sample", which isn't really a useful piece of information. 

Colony forming units - CFU - do not tell you if the fungal propagule was a spore, a tiny piece of hypha, or a mat of hyphae.  You need to do biomass, that's all there is to it, when you are dealing with fungi. 

Especially when you want to compare fungi and bacteria, comparing numbers is just plain nonsense.  We could tell you how many individual strands of fungi are present in soil, but that is dependent on whether the soil was just plowed, or not.  Doesn't relate to anything useful. 

But what about bacteria?  Bacteria clump together, they like to form colonies.  Just like people.  People clump together in villages, towns, cities, etc..  The group helps each individual better.  Think of a bacterial colony as being like a neighborhood of similar ethnic people. 

Plate count approaches cannot separate all the colonies into the individuals, so plate counts always underestimate the actual number of individuals - but you don't know by how much.  How many colonies were broken up when you shook your soil sample in buffer?  How many were not, or were partially broken up? don't know.  So, what are you getting when you run a plate count? 

In direct microscopy, we count the individual bacteria that we can see, including the bacteria in colonies, measure length and width, and then using the typical density of bacteria in soil, determined over the years by lots of testing and which varies from soil to soil, season to season, we can determine biomass of bacteria in soil. 

We are working on differences in bacterial and fungial densities in the rhizosphere of different agricultural plants right now, so that will be put into the data that will be used to fine-tune the SFI report based on each plant that you tell us has been growing in the area you want to know about. 

A good test for a lab that says they are doing direct measurements, but are perhaps not actually giving good data because they don't work with the person who developed the direct microscopic techniques they purport to use, is to ask them how they figured out density of bacteria and fungi in soil.  What values do they use in their spread sheets, and how those values change with season. 

SFI labs direct that question to me, because I developed the knowledge.  Sharing that knowledge, having someone able to understand that level of seasonal change, and understand how to do the assessment, generally takes a minimum of Ph.D. in microbiology.  So, yes, other academics can tell you the reason you need to pay attention to this, but only by working with SFI labs will you get the knowledge that has already worked that one out. 

People who stopped by SFI and spent a week, or even a couple years, "training" with SF were not given this information.  They can't explain where each value in our spread sheets comes from, and of course, that's critical in order to change the seasonal parameters, the plant parameters, that need to be changed. 

Anyway, on to the numbers.  We explain numbers versus biomass in SFI courses, so, if this discussion is a bit too much, please come to one of those classes. 

Bacteria generally run about 1 million per gram (about a teaspoon) of dry weight of soil in conventional agricultural soil.  Typically a plate count will overestimate the actual numbers of bacterial individuals, because the plate count will include dormant stages of bacteria, not just the active bacterial cells.  That's a problem.  If the information you need is - how many functioning cells in my soil - then you cannot get that knowledge from a plate count. 

Bacterial numbers in HEALTHY agricultural soil, healthy defined by the plant can grow without pesticides or inorganic fertilizer to help it survive (not on drugs, if you will) are typically about 600 million per gram dry weight of soil. 

Numbers of bacteria per gram in a conventional lawn, maintained by a chemical service?  You may have only disease - causers, and you may have only a few thousand per gram.  Pesticides kill things.  Oh, surprise. 

In a healthy lawn, which is disease-free, so not requiring any pesticides, we can find up to 2,000 million bacteria per gram of soil.  But that better be balanced by a fungal biomass to balance nitrogen in a proper ratio to grow your perennial grasses. 

The proper biology does that for you.  You must get the ratio of fungi to bacteria correct, for the plant you want to grow, or you may be setting the stage to grow weeds better than the plant you want to grow. 

If that statement confused you, it may be time to come to an SFI class. 

In a field of soil (about 2 million lbs of soil in the top ten inches in an acre of soil), that's well into the billions of individuals of bacteria, and possibly fungi.  

You need to be very careful when someone is talking about numbers of individuals of bacteria or fungi that you get the units correct.  Did they say billions of individuals per gram of ag soil?  Then they are not correct. 

Did they say billions of individuals per gram soil in an old growth forest?  They are correct.  How productive a system are you talking about? 

If they say billions of individuals in an ag FIELD, then they MAY be correct.  In an old growth forest stand of trees?  They are being too conservative. 

And that's just bacteria and fungi.  what about protozoa?  Add them in. 

Nematodes?  Microarthropods?  You CANNOT have a healthy old growth forest without several hundred thousand microarthropods doing their thing, during the right times of the year. 

Seasonal processes going on there, and we need to make sure they are there, in order to have a healthy forest. 

Much to understand.  But not impossible, nor even all that complex, if you get an understanding of how it all works together.  There's a great deal of "well, of course that's how it works", once you have someone explain the functions of the different critters for you. 

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
SFI Culiacan, Mexico
SFI Jerome, Idaho
http://www.soilfoodweb.com


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From - Mon Apr 12 23:44:06 2004 X-UIDL: 368615124 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A80F35110120; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:01:35 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id A8D60C27F; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDE3C26C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from intrex.net (client230-16.dsl.intrex.net [209.42.230.16]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E5DBE0F for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <407B8781.8070600@intrex.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:24:01 -0700 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lfl@intrex.net Subject: Cultivating diversity underground for better yields above - http://www.newfarm.org/depts/NFfield_trials/0903/daviddouds.shtml Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368615124 http://www.newfarm.org/depts/NFfield_trials/0903/daviddouds.shtml Cultivating diversity underground for better yields above Research at The Rodale Institute® demonstrates how sustainable farming practices can boost yields by nurturing beneficial soil fungi. By Laura Sayre About this series: As some of you may know, The Rodale Institute®, which publishes The New Farm®, is home to the longest running field trials in the country comparing organic and conventional systems of farming called The Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial® (FST). The data from that 23 years of research is a real treasure trove of insight into the economic, ecological and agronomic benefits of organic farming. In addition to this long-running Farming Systems Trial, we have a variety of other research in progress at The Institute. David Douds, as you’ll read in this story, has been studying soil fungi here at The Institute’s research farm for 15 years. We’re engaged in no-till research, weed research, compost tea research, composting research, water quality research, and much more. Until now, much of the light we’re generating here on our research farm has been hidden under the proverbial barrel, but we’re taking off the barrel and busting it up for firewood. We’re going let the light of the amazing research being done here shine on farmers, consumers and environmental activities. Over the next year we’ll be running a series of stories, about one a month, on the significance of our research ... and its practical applications. That includes a few stories on equipment construction—a front-mounted roller for no-till, and a compost turner converted from a junked 18-wheeler. So sit tight, and be prepared to be amazed, starting with David Douds’ discoveries about how you can increase vegetable yields by 50 percent using homemade fungal inoculants. Enjoy, Chris Hill Executive Editor p.s. Interested in hearing more about how you can take part in the mycorrhizae revolution? Click here and let us know. Send your name, phone number and e-mail address with your note so we can follow-up with you. "Overall, Douds’ work suggests that a small amount of mixed MF inoculant can be substituted for a large amount of fertilizer--with no loss of yield, greatly reduced environmental impact, and lower production costs." Home-grown mycorrhizal inoculum can be produced at a fraction of the cost of purchasing commercial mixes. "I've done some preliminary calculations," says Douds. "The on-farm system produces 100 million propagules for approximately $50, not counting the cost of the farmer's labor, which is fairly minimal. To purchase 100 million propagules as listed on the bag of some commercial mixes would cost anywhere from $8,000 to $40,000." FACT SHEET: Mycorrhizae Above: USDA soil microbiologist David Douds with a carrot root-mycorrhizal fungi culture. Under the leadership of Dr. Douds, field trials have shown yield gains of as much as 50% in the presence of healthy mycorrhizae populations. Now Douds is developing a practical, low-cost method for on-farm production of mycorrhizal soil innoculant, promising higher yields with lower nutrient inputs. (Photo by Peggy Greb, courtesy of the Agricultural Research Service Photo Unit.) September 29, 2003: You've read the amazing facts and figures: one teaspoon of healthy topsoil can contain millions of individual microorganisms, all playing a part in the functioning of the soil ecosystem. But how much do you really know about the action of those diverse species and how to maximize their presence in your own fields? Ongoing research at The Rodale Institute® sheds light on one important component of the soil community--mycorrhizal fungi--and its impact on agricultural production. Under the leadership of Dr. David Douds, a soil microbiologist with the USDA's Agricultural Research Service, field trials have shown yield gains of as much as 50% in the presence of healthy mycorrhizae populations. Now Douds is developing a practical, low-cost method for on-farm production of mycorrhizal soil inoculant, promising higher yields with lower nutrient inputs. A mycorrhizal primer Mycorrhizae are soil-dwelling fungi that live in and around the roots of plants ('myco-rrhizae' means 'fungus-root'). The fungi and the plants form mutually beneficial associations in which the fungi receive carbohydrates from the plants and the plants receive nutrients and other benefits from the fungi. Since the first mycorrhizae species were described by a German botanist in the 1880s, researchers have discovered that approximately 80% of all land plants form mycorrhizal associations. The relationship is so widespread, in fact, that it is sometimes referred to as 'the Universal Symbiosis,' and is believed to have played a key role in the evolutionary transition from aquatic to terrestrial plant forms. Today, scientists divide mycorrhizae into two major types: endomycorrhizae, which penetrate and colonize plant roots, and ectomycorrhizae, which form sheaths around plant roots. Whereas ectomycorrhizal relationships tend to be highly specialized--with some 6000 fungal species worldwide associated with tree species of the oak, beech, and pine families, among others--endomycorrhizal associations are more generalized as well as more widespread, with fewer than 150 fungal species opportunistically colonizing the roots of the vast majority of terrestrial plant families. Ectomycorrhizal inoculants are already widely used in commercial forestry, but the possibility of developing endomycorrhizal inoculants for production agriculture is a more recent idea. "These are beneficial soil fungi that colonize the roots of plants and help them take up phosphorus" and other immobile soil nutrients, such as zinc and copper, Douds explains. "The fungus colonizes the root and it also grows out into the soil; the part of the fungus that's in the soil acts as an extension of the root system, to explore a greater volume of soil and take up nutrients and bring them back into the root." In addition to facilitating nutrient uptake, some mycorrhizae secrete a gluey substance, called glomalin, which helps develop soil structure and soil aggregation; others may help plants fight disease. Yet because endomycorrhizae are 'obligate symbionts'--they must have living plant roots to colonize in order to complete their life cycle--their numbers will decline under conventional agricultural monocultures, which have living crop covers fewer months of the year than organic rotations. The drop in yields typically seen after the first year of cultivation on virgin prairie or forest soils is probably attributable in part to the loss of native mycorrhizae, Douds says. Fifteen years of research prove benefits of fungi Douds has been conducting research in collaboration with The Rodale Institute since 1989, his first year at the Agricultural Research Service's Eastern Regional Research Center in Wyndmoor, on the outskirts of Philadelphia. "Some employees of The Institute farm came down to our research center as part of a kind of an interagency show-and-tell about research programs and facilities and what all we could do to help each other," Douds recalls. "Rhonda Janke"--The Institute's research agronomist at the time--"gave a presentation about The Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial," a side-by-side comparison of organic and conventional production systems. Douds recognized it as a great opportunity to study endomycorrhizal associations. "Later that year I started sampling, and right off learned that [the soils under] the conventional farming systems had fewer mycorrhizal fungi than the soils under the low-input farming systems. So right away we all got excited and we branched out from there." Since that first season, Douds' work at The Rodale Institute’s 333-acre experimental farm has progressed in three overlapping phases: In the first phase, from 1989 to 1995, Douds and his team surveyed native mycorrhizal fungi (MF) populations at Rodale and examined the impact of different agricultural practices--including tillage regimes, crop rotations, and soil amendments--on those populations. The second phase, which is still ongoing, looks at the utilization of MF by crop plants, comparing yields in the presence and absence of different MF species. The third phase seeks to apply those findings by devising a simple, on-farm MF inoculum production system, so that farmers can harness the benefits of endomycorrhizae without spending lots of money on commercial mixes. (Commercial products already on the market include Bio/Organics Endomycorrhizal Inoculant [$79.95 for 3 lbs, labeled to treat 500 plants], Plant Success Mycorrhizae Tablets [$19.95 for 100 tablets, labeled to treat 50 plants up to 1 ft tall], and Earthroots VAM Fungi by First Fruits LLC [$15 for 3 lbs, labeled to treat 200 seedlings].) On-farm production of mycorrhizal inoculant in test enclosures at The Rodale Institute’s farm. Douds chose bahiagrass as a host plant "because it's a tropical grass and the first frost will kill the shoot growth"--so it won't escape to become a new local weed and won't harbor any pests or pathogens that might affect either resident crops or northern native grasses. Agronomic practices that boost—or depress— mycorrhizal levels Although the first phase of Douds's research found larger and more diverse MF populations in organically-managed soils than in conventionally-managed ones, it also revealed how specific agronomic practices can boost or depress MF levels. "Over-wintering cover crops. . . are very beneficial to mycorrhizal fungi," Douds notes, whereas "tillage disrupts the mycorrhizal fungi in the soil and serves to decrease the initial colonization of the plants." Based on these findings, Douds emphasizes that all farmers, organic or conventional, can take steps to nurture the MF already present in their fields: reduce tillage, he says, use fungicides sparingly, and--most important--maximize cover cropping. "Over-wintering cover crops give the MF a host plant to colonize when there's no cash crop growing on the soil," Douds explains. In the coldest part of the year the MF go dormant, but during warm spells in early spring and late fall, the MF will try to grow, and can exhaust their reserves if they find no plant hosts. "During these periods. . . the fungus is still respiring, it's still burning up its carbohydrate storage in the spores, it's burning up the lipids that were stored," leaving it "less viable when the time comes finally for the crop plant to be present." A cover crop or even just a weedy fallow will maintain healthy MF populations, which can then benefit the cash crop coming on to the field. Crop rotations are another factor to consider, since a handful of crop species belong to plant families that do not form mycorrhizal associations (said to be 'non-mycotrophic'), including the Brassicaceae (rape, broccoli, cabbage, turnips, etc), the Chenopodiaceae (beets, spinach), and the Polygonaceae (buckwheat). Not only will these crops not benefit from the presence of MF, but MF levels in the soil will be depressed after these crops are grown, potentially showing an effect on any mycotrophic crops which follow. Potatoes and peppers inoculated with mycorrhizae get yield boosts of up to 50 percent! In the second phase of his research, looking at the impact of MF on crop yields, Douds began inoculating plants in the greenhouse and then tracking their performance in the field. "We had some plants that were inoculated with a control mix with no inoculum, another one inoculated with a mix of mycorrhizal fungi, and another inoculated with just one species commonly present in commercial inoculum," Douds explains. "We transplanted them into the Compost Utilization Trial,"--another ongoing experiment at The Rodale Institute--"and we found over the course of the 3-year experiment that the mixture of mycorrhizal fungi increased the yield of marketable-sized peppers up to a maximum of 34% over the control. Last year we tried inoculating potatoes, and we got up to a 50% increase over the controls." David Douds and a research intern dig potatoes in this season's mycorrhizal test plot at the Rodale Experimental Farm. In last year's trials, potatoes grown with mycorrhizal fungi showed yield increases of as much as 50%. Other crops known to respond dramatically to mycorrhizal colonization include citrus, onion, and strawberries. This year they are repeating the potato trial, measuring yields under four different treatments: one with no added MF; one with a commercially available MF; one with a mixed MF inoculant grown in a leaf compost and vermiculite medium; and one with a mixed MF inoculant grown in a dairy manure compost and vermiculite medium. Overall, this work suggests that a small amount of mixed MF inoculant can be substituted for a large amount of fertilizer--with no loss of yield, greatly reduced environmental impact, and lower production costs. One unexpected finding of Douds' work at Rodale "is that mycorrhizae can be used to increase the yield of crops even in soils that are very high in phosphorous." Some of the soils at the Rodale Farm which have been heavily composted, Douds notes, "have available P in excess of 300 parts/million"--well above the level at which mycorrhizal responses are typically seen, around 20-50 ppm available P. "The generalization would be that P as high as 300 would be a situation in which the plant can take up all the P that it needs by itself without relying on the mycorrhizal fungi." Douds believes that at high nutrient levels, some of the other benefits of MF--enhanced disease resistance, improved soil aggregation and better water relations--could be showing an effect. Build your own on-farm inoculum production system The third phase of Douds' research at Rodale Farm focuses on developing an inexpensive, practicable system for on-farm production of mycorrhizae inoculant. As obligate symbionts, endomycorrhizae have so far resisted attempts to create what scientists call axenic (or isolated, single-species) cultures--they can only be grown in the presence of a host plant. Douds' system works within this constraint, using bahiagrass (Paspalum notatum), a tropical grass native to the southeastern US, as a host. A myccorhizae factory: The basic procedure is for the farmer to construct a simple enclosure out of landscape fabric, fill it with a mixture of compost and vermiculite, and then transplant pre-colonized bahiagrass seedlings into the mixture. Over the course of the growing season the bahiagrass spreads within the enclosure and the mycorrhizal fungi spread and reproduce along with it. When the grass dies back in the winter, the farmer is left with a concentrated mycorrhizal inoculant that can be incorporated into his or her potting mix when starting seedlings in the greenhouse the following spring. The basic procedure is for the farmer to construct a simple enclosure out of landscape fabric (75 cm square and 20 cm high), fill it with a mixture of compost and vermiculite, and then transplant pre-colonized bahiagrass seedlings into the mixture. Over the course of the growing season the bahiagrass spreads within the enclosure and the mycorrhizal fungi spread and reproduce along with it. When the grass dies back in the winter, the farmer is left with a concentrated mycorrhizal inoculant that can be incorporated into his or her potting mix when starting seedlings in the greenhouse the following spring. This year, Douds gave inoculated bahiagrass seedlings and other materials to a few Pennsylvania farmers to see how the method fares in the real-life conditions of farming. Meanwhile, Douds has 12 soil enclosures growing at the Rodale Farm in an experimental grid designed to identify optimum growth media. Douds chose three different kinds of compost--yard-clippings compost, controlled microbial compost, and dairy manure-leaf compost--and then diluted each kind with vermiculite at four different ratios, ranging from 1 part compost:2 parts vermiculite, down to 1 part compost:49 parts vermiculite. Each soil enclosure, finally, has nine separate sections, three with no inoculant and three each with two different mixtures of MF. At the end of the season, says Douds, "we'll sample the mixtures from within each enclosure, quantify the inoculum production, and then hopefully develop a prediction formula, where the optimum ratio [of compost to vermiculite] is a function" of the nutrient analysis and other properties of the compost. All the farmer will need to do, then, is get the nutrient analysis of his or her compost, plug it in to the formula, and find the optimal ratio of compost to vermiculite to use for his or her farm. "On-farm methods have several advantages over commercial inoculants," Douds explains. In the first place, whereas commercial formulae typically only contain a single MF species (frequently Glomus intraradices), Douds' method yields a diverse inoculum containing many MF species. This is crucial because MF show significant 'functional diversity'--"some are good at holding the soil together, some are good at gathering nutrients," others help fight disease. A second, related advantage is that by mixing in some soil from a nearby woodland, prairie, or hedgerow, the farmer can use Douds's system "to produce the native or indigenous strains of mycorrhizal fungi. . . the ones that are already adapted to his [or her] particular soil conditions." This could be especially important on problem soils, such as those with high aluminum, say, or high or low pH, where commercially-produced fungi may not survive. Growing fungi in real life: David Douds with one of his on-farm mycorrhizal fungi production systems at Shenk's Berry Farm in Lititz, PA. John Shenk, the cooperating farmer, grows 5 acres of strawberries, 3 acres of raspberries, and 10 acres of mixed vegetables in a low-input system, selling on-farm and at the Clark Park Farmers Market in Philadelphia. "We try to farm thoughtfully," says Shenk. "And do lots of reading and research to keep improving our farming methods." Next season, Shenk will incorporate the soil from the enclosure into his greenhouse potting mix. Last but not least, home-grown mycorrhizal inoculum can be produced at a fraction of the cost of purchasing commercial mixes. "I've done some preliminary calculations," says Douds. "The on-farm system produces 100 million propagules [in a single enclosure] for approximately $50, not counting the cost of the farmer's labor, which is fairly minimal. To purchase 100 million propagules as listed on the bag of some commercial mixes would cost anywhere from $8,000 to $40,000." Commercial inoculants are sold in a peat- or vermiculite-based medium, so purchasers have to buy (and pay to have shipped) a large volume of material to get a small number of viable MF propagules--another reason it makes more sense to grow your own. At the moment, Douds' system (like commercial MF inoculant) is suitable for two types of farms: vegetable growers on any scale who produce their own seedlings and can mix the inoculum into their potting mix; and smaller, labor-intensive farms or urban gardens where "the inoculum can be incorporated by hand, directly into the planting furrow or planting hole." Farmers growing field crops on a large scale can only take advantage of MF inoculants if they want to try them out in a relatively small area. "Delivery of MF inoculum to the field is a problem," acknowledges Douds. "Commercial companies are working on this for their particular inocula." He smiles. We can only hope that he will be too. OPX™ e-letters to the e-editors news & research columnists gleanings 1000 stories talking shop certification the pig page this farm life newsletters mid-atlantic marketing new farm japan FARM LOCATOR™ PRESS ROOM Farmers: Is organic certification worth it? CAST YOUR VOTE NOW Stay Up-to-Date – Sign up for our Newsletter NewFarm.org changes daily! Don't miss out on the latest interactive features, columns and news. Sign up now for our monthly e-newsletter and stay connected. ACTION ALERTS • Save foundation seed stocks from GM contamination • Support Saskatchewan farmers in efforts to block GM wheat • Raise your voice against factory hog operations Share Your Stories Are you a farmer? A consumer? Whatever story you have to tell, let it be an inspiration to others. Share it with us now... T H E N E W F A R M – R E G E N E R A T I V E A G R I C U L T U R E W O R L D W I D E ©2004 The Rodale Institute® • PRIVACY POLICY • Design: www.homeworkdesign.com Check out our other sites: The Rodale Institute® • Kidsregen.org -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech From - Mon Apr 19 13:30:49 2004 X-UIDL: 368615602 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AD19414600AE; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:15:37 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 87CB7D640; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2DAD8BC for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n46.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n46.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.67.23]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 51DF4D785 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:15:32 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-8105-1082387721-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2004 15:15:25 -0000 X-Sender: steved@ncat.org X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33465 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2004 15:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2004 15:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2004 15:15:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.143] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2004 15:15:10 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Steve Diver" X-Originating-IP: 130.184.56.141 X-Yahoo-Profile: steved3602002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:15:08 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] Re: compost tea additives and NOSB Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368615602 A lot of people in farming have been **shocked** at
the narrow view of compost, vermicompost, processed
manures and compost teas in the NOP. 

The compost practice standards were lifted from a
EPA Biosolids rule known as "processes to further
reduce pathogens", PFRP's, to meet time and temperature
requirements to kill human pathogens in sewage sludge
and APPLIED organic farmers as a regulatory practice!!

In response to protests from organic farmers, the
NOSB formed the Compost Task Force to updgrade
practice standards for compost in NOP 205.203(2). 

Here is the report.  It looks like May 2002, and
since it has not been enacted, that tells you how
slow the process is to change NOP, a federal law.

Compost Task Force Final Report
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nosb/finalrecommendations/
may02/composttaskforce.pdf

In fact, NOP rules are so stifling on compost, processed
manures, and compost teas that Oregon Tilth and Oregon
State University sponsored a national summit on human
pathogens from livestock manures to bring people together
and discuss the situation and make recommendations and
suggestions to upgrade these uses... in June 2003...
recognizing there is a disconnect between every day
organic farming and "regulatory text" that codifies
farming practices.

See:

Human Pathogens from Livestock Manures: Proceedings
of a National Summit
http://www.tilth.org/site/Publications/pathogen_summit.pdf

The NOSB Compost Tea Task Force was formed to upgrade
compost tea practice standards.

It notes that compost substrate to make compost teas can
be NOP compliant compost OR compost that follows guidelines
set forth by the the NOSB Compost Task Force. 

Under (1) the current climate at USDA which is focused on
pathogens in animal manures and potential contamination of
edible crops and food supply and (2) scientific studies that
show multiple-week survival of pathogens applied to vegetable
crops, and (3) studies that show sweet teas can grow pathogens
-- whether you agree with the brewing protocals or not -- the
CTTF came up with the recommendations that you see. 

Keep in mind that zero published studies on modern ACT's
and pathogen survival are available in the literature, today.

There is a lab in TN that is providing an E. coli test for
composters for $15. 

Steve Diver



--- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "ericgoodenough" <sfo@g...> wrote:
> NOSB CTTF defines compost tea additives as "Materials other than
> water and compost added at the start of the compost tea making
> process to increase microbial biomasss/populations."
>
> Now, if I read this correctly, then kelp, rock powders, fish,
> humates, molasses, sugar, juice, oat flour, crab shell, ......THESE
> ARE ALL ADDITIVES INTENDED TO INCREASE MICROBIAL BIOMASS!
>
> Therefore, if you use these things you will be subject to
pre-testing
> to verify that your tea does not contain pathogens.  Two tests are
> required and the average result is used to "prove" your process is
> clean.  IF YOU CHANGE YOUR RECIPE (or your brew time, or your air
> input, or your start temp, or your water supply) YOU WILL NEED TO
> ORDER UP ANOTHER SET OF TESTS.
>
> Of course, if you choose to abide by the 90/120 day pre-harvest
> interval restrictions (in other words if you apply CT no sooner
than
> 90 pre-harvest for produce not in direct contact with the soil and
> 120 days for produce in contact with the soil), then of course you
> are all set.  I'm not sure which interval (90 or 120?) I will be
> forced to use for my apples, but if I am limited to using a foliar
> ACT before May 15 (120 interval) or June 15 (90 day  interval) it
> doesn't matter!  THE BOTTOM LINE IS I'VE JUST LOST A TOOL I COULD
USE
> TO OUT-COMPETE APPLE SCAB, SOOTY BLOTCH, FLYSPECK, FIREBLIGHT,
BLACK
> KNOT, ETC. ETC.!  (UNLESS, OF COURSE, I BREW MY TEA WITH ONLY
COMPOST
> AND WATER!)
>
> Is anyone enlivening their compost with oat flour?  My bet is that
> this practice will cause concern because your compost is no
> longer "finished" according to standards and/or the material will
be
> considered a "compost tea additive."
>
> I've been making vermi- and thermal composts for tea brewing
without
> the use of manure feedstocks so I could avoid the pre-harvest
> interval headaches.  The CTTF is recommending that CT should be
made
> with "compliant compost or vermicompost, using the NOSB guidelines
> set forth on April 18, 2002"  CAN ANYONE POINT ME TO THE GUIDELINES
> FOR VERMICOMPOST?  DOES IT NEED TO GO THROUGH THE THREE-DAY HEATING
> PROCESS?  OH, BY THE WAY, IF YOU'VE BEEN MAKING YOUR VERMI- OR
> THERMAL COMPOST WITHOUT MANURE TO AVOID THE PRE-HARVEST INTERVAL
THE
> CTTF IS NOW RECOMMENDING THAT EVEN COMPOST MADE FROM 100% PLANT
> FEEDSTOCK MATERIALS IS TO BE CONSIDERED THE SAME AS OTHER COMPOSTS
> (WHEN MAKING COMPOST TEA) BECAUSE "NON-MANURE COMPOST FEEDSTOCKS
MAY
> HARBOR HIGH LEVELS OF FECAL BACTERIA."
>
> Folks, if these receommendations are accepted, I believe Compost
Tea
> will become an excellent tool for the corporate organic growers who
> can afford the cost associated with testing and re-testing and
> recordkeeping.  It may be that, again, the big guys get to reap the
> rewards of the long fight to creat organic standards while the rest
> of us local growers interested in food integrity and security move
> on.  Organic ain't what it used to be.  I know these are just
> recommendations but I am inching closer to the ledge.  Can somebody
> talk me down?



Yahoo! Groups Links

From - Mon Apr 19 13:30:48 2004 X-UIDL: 368615595 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A422614300F8; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:20:50 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 6BDB6AC14; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D39ABE3 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 95042AA18 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:20:49 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-8104-1082377248-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2004 12:20:49 -0000 X-Sender: sfo@gwi.net X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8156 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2004 12:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2004 12:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2004 12:20:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2004 12:20:37 -0000 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 From: "ericgoodenough" X-Originating-IP: 216.195.150.187 X-Yahoo-Profile: ericgoodenough MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:20:36 -0000 Subject: [compost_tea] compost tea additives and NOSB Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368615595 NOSB CTTF defines compost tea additives as "Materials other than
water and compost added at the start of the compost tea making
process to increase microbial biomasss/populations."

Now, if I read this correctly, then kelp, rock powders, fish,
humates, molasses, sugar, juice, oat flour, crab shell, ......THESE
ARE ALL ADDITIVES INTENDED TO INCREASE MICROBIAL BIOMASS!

Therefore, if you use these things you will be subject to pre-testing
to verify that your tea does not contain pathogens.  Two tests are
required and the average result is used to "prove" your process is
clean.  IF YOU CHANGE YOUR RECIPE (or your brew time, or your air
input, or your start temp, or your water supply) YOU WILL NEED TO
ORDER UP ANOTHER SET OF TESTS.

Of course, if you choose to abide by the 90/120 day pre-harvest
interval restrictions (in other words if you apply CT no sooner than
90 pre-harvest for produce not in direct contact with the soil and
120 days for produce in contact with the soil), then of course you
are all set.  I'm not sure which interval (90 or 120?) I will be
forced to use for my apples, but if I am limited to using a foliar
ACT before May 15 (120 interval) or June 15 (90 day  interval) it
doesn't matter!  THE BOTTOM LINE IS I'VE JUST LOST A TOOL I COULD USE
TO OUT-COMPETE APPLE SCAB, SOOTY BLOTCH, FLYSPECK, FIREBLIGHT, BLACK
KNOT, ETC. ETC.!  (UNLESS, OF COURSE, I BREW MY TEA WITH ONLY COMPOST
AND WATER!)

Is anyone enlivening their compost with oat flour?  My bet is that
this practice will cause concern because your compost is no
longer "finished" according to standards and/or the material will be
considered a "compost tea additive."

I've been making vermi- and thermal composts for tea brewing without
the use of manure feedstocks so I could avoid the pre-harvest
interval headaches.  The CTTF is recommending that CT should be made
with "compliant compost or vermicompost, using the NOSB guidelines
set forth on April 18, 2002"  CAN ANYONE POINT ME TO THE GUIDELINES
FOR VERMICOMPOST?  DOES IT NEED TO GO THROUGH THE THREE-DAY HEATING
PROCESS?  OH, BY THE WAY, IF YOU'VE BEEN MAKING YOUR VERMI- OR
THERMAL COMPOST WITHOUT MANURE TO AVOID THE PRE-HARVEST INTERVAL THE
CTTF IS NOW RECOMMENDING THAT EVEN COMPOST MADE FROM 100% PLANT
FEEDSTOCK MATERIALS IS TO BE CONSIDERED THE SAME AS OTHER COMPOSTS
(WHEN MAKING COMPOST TEA) BECAUSE "NON-MANURE COMPOST FEEDSTOCKS MAY
HARBOR HIGH LEVELS OF FECAL BACTERIA."

Folks, if these receommendations are accepted, I believe Compost Tea
will become an excellent tool for the corporate organic growers who
can afford the cost associated with testing and re-testing and
recordkeeping.  It may be that, again, the big guys get to reap the
rewards of the long fight to creat organic standards while the rest
of us local growers interested in food integrity and security move
on.  Organic ain't what it used to be.  I know these are just
recommendations but I am inching closer to the ledge.  Can somebody
talk me down?





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From - Tue May 04 00:01:07 2004 X-UIDL: 368616871 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AF72815100E2; Mon, 03 May 2004 23:35:14 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 778F4CFDB; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0D6CFD7 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from intrex.net (client230-16.dsl.intrex.net [209.42.230.16]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4EF1CEDA for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 23:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40973F06.80109@intrex.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 23:58:14 -0700 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lfl@intrex.net Subject: Molasses applied to soils feeds soil microbes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368616871 Steve Diver steved at ncat.org Mon May 3 10:27:19 EDT 2004 * Previous message: [Market-farming] Speaking of sweeter... * Next message: [Market-farming] asparagus * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Molasses applied to soils feeds soil microbes. Activating soil biology can impact above-ground insect pests by altering plant metabolism -- especially relating to sap pH and amino acids -- in addition to controlling to soil-borne diseases which are the usual target pathogens of enhanced soil biology. Likewise, I recall some research underway to understand the effect of compost utilization on arthropod pests. Likewise, I recall some research on infra-red detection of hot zones on plant surfaces where insects attacked. The application of humus management=biology, mineral balancing, and energetics is the three-part approach in ecofarming. Steve Diver -- L.F.London lfl@intrex.net http://market-farming.com http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech From - Thu May 06 13:51:38 2004 X-UIDL: 368617124 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A0169EE009A; Thu, 06 May 2004 13:04:22 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 12BE9A9A9; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA636C8D6 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BC86C8B8 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFF8200D5; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: organicviticulture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from pop.hevanet.com (pop.hevanet.com [198.5.254.15]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E9A200D2 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.94.165.224] (ts04-ip108.hevanet.com [130.94.165.224]) by pop.hevanet.com (8.11.6p3/8.11.6p3) with ESMTP id i46H4FT95396 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 10:04:14 -0700 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: organicviticulture Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [organicviticulture] FW: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work X-BeenThere: organicviticulture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list Reply-To: Organic Grape Culture List-Id: Organic Grape Culture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: organicviticulture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: organicviticulture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368617124 ---------- From: ARS News Service Reply-To: ARS News Service Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:49:55 -0400 To: ARS News subscriber Subject: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work STORY LEAD: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work ___________________________________________ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA David Elstein, (301) 504-1654, delstein@ars.usda.gov May 6, 2004 ___________________________________________ Certain fertilizers can actually inhibit beneficial, naturally occurring fungi that help plants use water and nutrients while suppressing diseases, according to an Agricultural Research Service scientist studying these beneficial root-dwelling fungi. ARS plant pathologist Robert Linderman at the Horticultural Crops Research Laboratory in Corvallis, Ore., is studying how these fungi, called mycorrhizae, interact with fertilizers and other soil amendments that have been commonly used in agriculture over the past half century. Linderman is one of only a few scientists studying how mycorrhizae affect the nutrition and health of nursery crops. He has measured the level of mycorrhizal colonization of roots to see whether various materials added to soil help or inhibit fungal growth. He studied a range of commercial fertilizers and found that organic ones are usually compatible with mycorrhizae, while phosphorus-rich inorganic fertilizers usually inhibit them. He also looked at peat moss, a popular additive to potting mixes used to grow nursery crops. He found that in some cases it helps mycorrhizal associations, while in others it hinders the fungi. Coir, a coconut fiber that has become a popular potting mix additive, does not inhibit mycorrhizae, but it may reduce growth of some plants. Linderman is currently studying various types of composts to see what, if any, effect they'll have on the establishment of mycorrhizae. His initial finding is that some composts may suppress the fungi because of high phosphorus levels. After spending years researching these important fungi, Linderman believes that he will now be able to advise growers as to which potting mix additives will help establish mycorrhizae that can enhance plant growth and health. Read more about this research in the May 2004 issue of Agricultural Research magazine, available online at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may04/fungi0504.htm ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ___________________________________________ * This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to subscribers on weekdays. * Start, stop or change an e-mail subscription at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/subscribe.htm * NewsService@ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/news * Phone (301) 504-1638 | fax (301) 504-1648 _______________________________________________ organicviticulture mailing list organicviticulture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/organicviticulture From - Thu May 06 13:51:38 2004 X-UIDL: 368617124 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A0169EE009A; Thu, 06 May 2004 13:04:22 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 12BE9A9A9; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA636C8D6 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu [152.2.210.119]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BC86C8B8 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFF8200D5; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: organicviticulture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from pop.hevanet.com (pop.hevanet.com [198.5.254.15]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E9A200D2 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.94.165.224] (ts04-ip108.hevanet.com [130.94.165.224]) by pop.hevanet.com (8.11.6p3/8.11.6p3) with ESMTP id i46H4FT95396 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 10:04:14 -0700 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: organicviticulture Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [organicviticulture] FW: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work X-BeenThere: organicviticulture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list Reply-To: Organic Grape Culture List-Id: Organic Grape Culture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: organicviticulture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: organicviticulture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368617124 ---------- From: ARS News Service Reply-To: ARS News Service Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:49:55 -0400 To: ARS News subscriber Subject: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work STORY LEAD: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work ___________________________________________ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA David Elstein, (301) 504-1654, delstein@ars.usda.gov May 6, 2004 ___________________________________________ Certain fertilizers can actually inhibit beneficial, naturally occurring fungi that help plants use water and nutrients while suppressing diseases, according to an Agricultural Research Service scientist studying these beneficial root-dwelling fungi. ARS plant pathologist Robert Linderman at the Horticultural Crops Research Laboratory in Corvallis, Ore., is studying how these fungi, called mycorrhizae, interact with fertilizers and other soil amendments that have been commonly used in agriculture over the past half century. Linderman is one of only a few scientists studying how mycorrhizae affect the nutrition and health of nursery crops. He has measured the level of mycorrhizal colonization of roots to see whether various materials added to soil help or inhibit fungal growth. He studied a range of commercial fertilizers and found that organic ones are usually compatible with mycorrhizae, while phosphorus-rich inorganic fertilizers usually inhibit them. He also looked at peat moss, a popular additive to potting mixes used to grow nursery crops. He found that in some cases it helps mycorrhizal associations, while in others it hinders the fungi. Coir, a coconut fiber that has become a popular potting mix additive, does not inhibit mycorrhizae, but it may reduce growth of some plants. Linderman is currently studying various types of composts to see what, if any, effect they'll have on the establishment of mycorrhizae. His initial finding is that some composts may suppress the fungi because of high phosphorus levels. After spending years researching these important fungi, Linderman believes that he will now be able to advise growers as to which potting mix additives will help establish mycorrhizae that can enhance plant growth and health. Read more about this research in the May 2004 issue of Agricultural Research magazine, available online at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may04/fungi0504.htm ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ___________________________________________ * This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to subscribers on weekdays. * Start, stop or change an e-mail subscription at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/subscribe.htm * NewsService@ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/news * Phone (301) 504-1638 | fax (301) 504-1648 _______________________________________________ organicviticulture mailing list organicviticulture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/organicviticulture From - Thu May 06 14:00:35 2004 X-UIDL: 368617131 X-Mozilla-Status: 1001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A7D563BE0126; Thu, 06 May 2004 13:37:25 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 3A190B142; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D57BB0D8; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from intrex.net (client230-16.dsl.intrex.net [209.42.230.16]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06292AD4C; Thu, 6 May 2004 13:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <409AA76B.7090402@intrex.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 14:00:27 -0700 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: http://market-farming.com -- Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: compostteas@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: FW: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work & FWD: Boost yields by nurturing beneficial soil fungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368617131 ---------- From: ARS News Service Reply-To: ARS News Service Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:49:55 -0400 To: ARS News subscriber Subject: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work STORY LEAD: Helping Beneficial Fungi Work ___________________________________________ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA David Elstein, (301) 504-1654, delstein@ars.usda.gov May 6, 2004 ___________________________________________ Certain fertilizers can actually inhibit beneficial, naturally occurring fungi that help plants use water and nutrients while suppressing diseases, according to an Agricultural Research Service scientist studying these beneficial root-dwelling fungi. ARS plant pathologist Robert Linderman at the Horticultural Crops Research Laboratory in Corvallis, Ore., is studying how these fungi, called mycorrhizae, interact with fertilizers and other soil amendments that have been commonly used in agriculture over the past half century. Linderman is one of only a few scientists studying how mycorrhizae affect the nutrition and health of nursery crops. He has measured the level of mycorrhizal colonization of roots to see whether various materials added to soil help or inhibit fungal growth. He studied a range of commercial fertilizers and found that organic ones are usually compatible with mycorrhizae, while phosphorus-rich inorganic fertilizers usually inhibit them. He also looked at peat moss, a popular additive to potting mixes used to grow nursery crops. He found that in some cases it helps mycorrhizal associations, while in others it hinders the fungi. Coir, a coconut fiber that has become a popular potting mix additive, does not inhibit mycorrhizae, but it may reduce growth of some plants. Linderman is currently studying various types of composts to see what, if any, effect they'll have on the establishment of mycorrhizae. His initial finding is that some composts may suppress the fungi because of high phosphorus levels. After spending years researching these important fungi, Linderman believes that he will now be able to advise growers as to which potting mix additives will help establish mycorrhizae that can enhance plant growth and health. Read more about this research in the May 2004 issue of Agricultural Research magazine, available online at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may04/fungi0504.htm ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ___________________________________________ * This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to subscribers on weekdays. * Start, stop or change an e-mail subscription at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/subscribe.htm * NewsService@ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/news * Phone (301) 504-1638 | fax (301) 504-1648 -------------------------------------------- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Cultivating diversity underground for better yields above http://www.newfarm.org/depts/NFfield_trials/0903/daviddouds.shtml Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:24:01 -0700 http://www.newfarm.org/depts/NFfield_trials/0903/daviddouds.shtml Cultivating diversity underground for better yields above Research at The Rodale Institute® demonstrates how sustainable farming practices can boost yields by nurturing beneficial soil fungi. By Laura Sayre About this series: As some of you may know, The Rodale Institute®, which publishes The New Farm®, is home to the longest running field trials in the country comparing organic and conventional systems of farming called The Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial® (FST). The data from that 23 years of research is a real treasure trove of insight into the economic, ecological and agronomic benefits of organic farming. In addition to this long-running Farming Systems Trial, we have a variety of other research in progress at The Institute. David Douds, as you’ll read in this story, has been studying soil fungi here at The Institute’s research farm for 15 years. We’re engaged in no-till research, weed research, compost tea research, composting research, water quality research, and much more. Until now, much of the light we’re generating here on our research farm has been hidden under the proverbial barrel, but we’re taking off the barrel and busting it up for firewood. We’re going let the light of the amazing research being done here shine on farmers, consumers and environmental activities. Over the next year we’ll be running a series of stories, about one a month, on the significance of our research ... and its practical applications. That includes a few stories on equipment construction—a front-mounted roller for no-till, and a compost turner converted from a junked 18-wheeler. So sit tight, and be prepared to be amazed, starting with David Douds’ discoveries about how you can increase vegetable yields by 50 percent using homemade fungal inoculants. Enjoy, Chris Hill Executive Editor p.s. Interested in hearing more about how you can take part in the mycorrhizae revolution? Click here and let us know. Send your name, phone number and e-mail address with your note so we can follow-up with you. "Overall, Douds’ work suggests that a small amount of mixed MF inoculant can be substituted for a large amount of fertilizer--with no loss of yield, greatly reduced environmental impact, and lower production costs." Home-grown mycorrhizal inoculum can be produced at a fraction of the cost of purchasing commercial mixes. "I've done some preliminary calculations," says Douds. "The on-farm system produces 100 million propagules for approximately $50, not counting the cost of the farmer's labor, which is fairly minimal. To purchase 100 million propagules as listed on the bag of some commercial mixes would cost anywhere from $8,000 to $40,000." FACT SHEET: Mycorrhizae Above: USDA soil microbiologist David Douds with a carrot root-mycorrhizal fungi culture. Under the leadership of Dr. Douds, field trials have shown yield gains of as much as 50% in the presence of healthy mycorrhizae populations. Now Douds is developing a practical, low-cost method for on-farm production of mycorrhizal soil innoculant, promising higher yields with lower nutrient inputs. (Photo by Peggy Greb, courtesy of the Agricultural Research Service Photo Unit.) September 29, 2003: You've read the amazing facts and figures: one teaspoon of healthy topsoil can contain millions of individual microorganisms, all playing a part in the functioning of the soil ecosystem. But how much do you really know about the action of those diverse species and how to maximize their presence in your own fields? Ongoing research at The Rodale Institute® sheds light on one important component of the soil community--mycorrhizal fungi--and its impact on agricultural production. Under the leadership of Dr. David Douds, a soil microbiologist with the USDA's Agricultural Research Service, field trials have shown yield gains of as much as 50% in the presence of healthy mycorrhizae populations. Now Douds is developing a practical, low-cost method for on-farm production of mycorrhizal soil inoculant, promising higher yields with lower nutrient inputs. A mycorrhizal primer Mycorrhizae are soil-dwelling fungi that live in and around the roots of plants ('myco-rrhizae' means 'fungus-root'). The fungi and the plants form mutually beneficial associations in which the fungi receive carbohydrates from the plants and the plants receive nutrients and other benefits from the fungi. Since the first mycorrhizae species were described by a German botanist in the 1880s, researchers have discovered that approximately 80% of all land plants form mycorrhizal associations. The relationship is so widespread, in fact, that it is sometimes referred to as 'the Universal Symbiosis,' and is believed to have played a key role in the evolutionary transition from aquatic to terrestrial plant forms. Today, scientists divide mycorrhizae into two major types: endomycorrhizae, which penetrate and colonize plant roots, and ectomycorrhizae, which form sheaths around plant roots. Whereas ectomycorrhizal relationships tend to be highly specialized--with some 6000 fungal species worldwide associated with tree species of the oak, beech, and pine families, among others--endomycorrhizal associations are more generalized as well as more widespread, with fewer than 150 fungal species opportunistically colonizing the roots of the vast majority of terrestrial plant families. Ectomycorrhizal inoculants are already widely used in commercial forestry, but the possibility of developing endomycorrhizal inoculants for production agriculture is a more recent idea. "These are beneficial soil fungi that colonize the roots of plants and help them take up phosphorus" and other immobile soil nutrients, such as zinc and copper, Douds explains. "The fungus colonizes the root and it also grows out into the soil; the part of the fungus that's in the soil acts as an extension of the root system, to explore a greater volume of soil and take up nutrients and bring them back into the root." In addition to facilitating nutrient uptake, some mycorrhizae secrete a gluey substance, called glomalin, which helps develop soil structure and soil aggregation; others may help plants fight disease. Yet because endomycorrhizae are 'obligate symbionts'--they must have living plant roots to colonize in order to complete their life cycle--their numbers will decline under conventional agricultural monocultures, which have living crop covers fewer months of the year than organic rotations. The drop in yields typically seen after the first year of cultivation on virgin prairie or forest soils is probably attributable in part to the loss of native mycorrhizae, Douds says. Fifteen years of research prove benefits of fungi Douds has been conducting research in collaboration with The Rodale Institute since 1989, his first year at the Agricultural Research Service's Eastern Regional Research Center in Wyndmoor, on the outskirts of Philadelphia. "Some employees of The Institute farm came down to our research center as part of a kind of an interagency show-and-tell about research programs and facilities and what all we could do to help each other," Douds recalls. "Rhonda Janke"--The Institute's research agronomist at the time--"gave a presentation about The Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial," a side-by-side comparison of organic and conventional production systems. Douds recognized it as a great opportunity to study endomycorrhizal associations. "Later that year I started sampling, and right off learned that [the soils under] the conventional farming systems had fewer mycorrhizal fungi than the soils under the low-input farming systems. So right away we all got excited and we branched out from there." Since that first season, Douds' work at The Rodale Institute’s 333-acre experimental farm has progressed in three overlapping phases: In the first phase, from 1989 to 1995, Douds and his team surveyed native mycorrhizal fungi (MF) populations at Rodale and examined the impact of different agricultural practices--including tillage regimes, crop rotations, and soil amendments--on those populations. The second phase, which is still ongoing, looks at the utilization of MF by crop plants, comparing yields in the presence and absence of different MF species. The third phase seeks to apply those findings by devising a simple, on-farm MF inoculum production system, so that farmers can harness the benefits of endomycorrhizae without spending lots of money on commercial mixes. (Commercial products already on the market include Bio/Organics Endomycorrhizal Inoculant [$79.95 for 3 lbs, labeled to treat 500 plants], Plant Success Mycorrhizae Tablets [$19.95 for 100 tablets, labeled to treat 50 plants up to 1 ft tall], and Earthroots VAM Fungi by First Fruits LLC [$15 for 3 lbs, labeled to treat 200 seedlings].) On-farm production of mycorrhizal inoculant in test enclosures at The Rodale Institute’s farm. Douds chose bahiagrass as a host plant "because it's a tropical grass and the first frost will kill the shoot growth"--so it won't escape to become a new local weed and won't harbor any pests or pathogens that might affect either resident crops or northern native grasses. Agronomic practices that boost—or depress— mycorrhizal levels Although the first phase of Douds's research found larger and more diverse MF populations in organically-managed soils than in conventionally-managed ones, it also revealed how specific agronomic practices can boost or depress MF levels. "Over-wintering cover crops. . . are very beneficial to mycorrhizal fungi," Douds notes, whereas "tillage disrupts the mycorrhizal fungi in the soil and serves to decrease the initial colonization of the plants." Based on these findings, Douds emphasizes that all farmers, organic or conventional, can take steps to nurture the MF already present in their fields: reduce tillage, he says, use fungicides sparingly, and--most important--maximize cover cropping. "Over-wintering cover crops give the MF a host plant to colonize when there's no cash crop growing on the soil," Douds explains. In the coldest part of the year the MF go dormant, but during warm spells in early spring and late fall, the MF will try to grow, and can exhaust their reserves if they find no plant hosts. "During these periods. . . the fungus is still respiring, it's still burning up its carbohydrate storage in the spores, it's burning up the lipids that were stored," leaving it "less viable when the time comes finally for the crop plant to be present." A cover crop or even just a weedy fallow will maintain healthy MF populations, which can then benefit the cash crop coming on to the field. Crop rotations are another factor to consider, since a handful of crop species belong to plant families that do not form mycorrhizal associations (said to be 'non-mycotrophic'), including the Brassicaceae (rape, broccoli, cabbage, turnips, etc), the Chenopodiaceae (beets, spinach), and the Polygonaceae (buckwheat). Not only will these crops not benefit from the presence of MF, but MF levels in the soil will be depressed after these crops are grown, potentially showing an effect on any mycotrophic crops which follow. Potatoes and peppers inoculated with mycorrhizae get yield boosts of up to 50 percent! In the second phase of his research, looking at the impact of MF on crop yields, Douds began inoculating plants in the greenhouse and then tracking their performance in the field. "We had some plants that were inoculated with a control mix with no inoculum, another one inoculated with a mix of mycorrhizal fungi, and another inoculated with just one species commonly present in commercial inoculum," Douds explains. "We transplanted them into the Compost Utilization Trial,"--another ongoing experiment at The Rodale Institute--"and we found over the course of the 3-year experiment that the mixture of mycorrhizal fungi increased the yield of marketable-sized peppers up to a maximum of 34% over the control. Last year we tried inoculating potatoes, and we got up to a 50% increase over the controls." David Douds and a research intern dig potatoes in this season's mycorrhizal test plot at the Rodale Experimental Farm. In last year's trials, potatoes grown with mycorrhizal fungi showed yield increases of as much as 50%. Other crops known to respond dramatically to mycorrhizal colonization include citrus, onion, and strawberries. This year they are repeating the potato trial, measuring yields under four different treatments: one with no added MF; one with a commercially available MF; one with a mixed MF inoculant grown in a leaf compost and vermiculite medium; and one with a mixed MF inoculant grown in a dairy manure compost and vermiculite medium. Overall, this work suggests that a small amount of mixed MF inoculant can be substituted for a large amount of fertilizer--with no loss of yield, greatly reduced environmental impact, and lower production costs. One unexpected finding of Douds' work at Rodale "is that mycorrhizae can be used to increase the yield of crops even in soils that are very high in phosphorous." Some of the soils at the Rodale Farm which have been heavily composted, Douds notes, "have available P in excess of 300 parts/million"--well above the level at which mycorrhizal responses are typically seen, around 20-50 ppm available P. "The generalization would be that P as high as 300 would be a situation in which the plant can take up all the P that it needs by itself without relying on the mycorrhizal fungi." Douds believes that at high nutrient levels, some of the other benefits of MF--enhanced disease resistance, improved soil aggregation and better water relations--could be showing an effect. Build your own on-farm inoculum production system The third phase of Douds' research at Rodale Farm focuses on developing an inexpensive, practicable system for on-farm production of mycorrhizae inoculant. As obligate symbionts, endomycorrhizae have so far resisted attempts to create what scientists call axenic (or isolated, single-species) cultures--they can only be grown in the presence of a host plant. Douds' system works within this constraint, using bahiagrass (Paspalum notatum), a tropical grass native to the southeastern US, as a host. A myccorhizae factory: The basic procedure is for the farmer to construct a simple enclosure out of landscape fabric, fill it with a mixture of compost and vermiculite, and then transplant pre-colonized bahiagrass seedlings into the mixture. Over the course of the growing season the bahiagrass spreads within the enclosure and the mycorrhizal fungi spread and reproduce along with it. When the grass dies back in the winter, the farmer is left with a concentrated mycorrhizal inoculant that can be incorporated into his or her potting mix when starting seedlings in the greenhouse the following spring. The basic procedure is for the farmer to construct a simple enclosure out of landscape fabric (75 cm square and 20 cm high), fill it with a mixture of compost and vermiculite, and then transplant pre-colonized bahiagrass seedlings into the mixture. Over the course of the growing season the bahiagrass spreads within the enclosure and the mycorrhizal fungi spread and reproduce along with it. When the grass dies back in the winter, the farmer is left with a concentrated mycorrhizal inoculant that can be incorporated into his or her potting mix when starting seedlings in the greenhouse the following spring. This year, Douds gave inoculated bahiagrass seedlings and other materials to a few Pennsylvania farmers to see how the method fares in the real-life conditions of farming. Meanwhile, Douds has 12 soil enclosures growing at the Rodale Farm in an experimental grid designed to identify optimum growth media. Douds chose three different kinds of compost--yard-clippings compost, controlled microbial compost, and dairy manure-leaf compost--and then diluted each kind with vermiculite at four different ratios, ranging from 1 part compost:2 parts vermiculite, down to 1 part compost:49 parts vermiculite. Each soil enclosure, finally, has nine separate sections, three with no inoculant and three each with two different mixtures of MF. At the end of the season, says Douds, "we'll sample the mixtures from within each enclosure, quantify the inoculum production, and then hopefully develop a prediction formula, where the optimum ratio [of compost to vermiculite] is a function" of the nutrient analysis and other properties of the compost. All the farmer will need to do, then, is get the nutrient analysis of his or her compost, plug it in to the formula, and find the optimal ratio of compost to vermiculite to use for his or her farm. "On-farm methods have several advantages over commercial inoculants," Douds explains. In the first place, whereas commercial formulae typically only contain a single MF species (frequently Glomus intraradices), Douds' method yields a diverse inoculum containing many MF species. This is crucial because MF show significant 'functional diversity'--"some are good at holding the soil together, some are good at gathering nutrients," others help fight disease. A second, related advantage is that by mixing in some soil from a nearby woodland, prairie, or hedgerow, the farmer can use Douds's system "to produce the native or indigenous strains of mycorrhizal fungi. . . the ones that are already adapted to his [or her] particular soil conditions." This could be especially important on problem soils, such as those with high aluminum, say, or high or low pH, where commercially-produced fungi may not survive. Growing fungi in real life: David Douds with one of his on-farm mycorrhizal fungi production systems at Shenk's Berry Farm in Lititz, PA. John Shenk, the cooperating farmer, grows 5 acres of strawberries, 3 acres of raspberries, and 10 acres of mixed vegetables in a low-input system, selling on-farm and at the Clark Park Farmers Market in Philadelphia. "We try to farm thoughtfully," says Shenk. "And do lots of reading and research to keep improving our farming methods." Next season, Shenk will incorporate the soil from the enclosure into his greenhouse potting mix. Last but not least, home-grown mycorrhizal inoculum can be produced at a fraction of the cost of purchasing commercial mixes. "I've done some preliminary calculations," says Douds. "The on-farm system produces 100 million propagules [in a single enclosure] for approximately $50, not counting the cost of the farmer's labor, which is fairly minimal. To purchase 100 million propagules as listed on the bag of some commercial mixes would cost anywhere from $8,000 to $40,000." Commercial inoculants are sold in a peat- or vermiculite-based medium, so purchasers have to buy (and pay to have shipped) a large volume of material to get a small number of viable MF propagules--another reason it makes more sense to grow your own. At the moment, Douds' system (like commercial MF inoculant) is suitable for two types of farms: vegetable growers on any scale who produce their own seedlings and can mix the inoculum into their potting mix; and smaller, labor-intensive farms or urban gardens where "the inoculum can be incorporated by hand, directly into the planting furrow or planting hole." Farmers growing field crops on a large scale can only take advantage of MF inoculants if they want to try them out in a relatively small area. "Delivery of MF inoculum to the field is a problem," acknowledges Douds. "Commercial companies are working on this for their particular inocula." He smiles. We can only hope that he will be too. OPX™ e-letters to the e-editors news & research columnists gleanings 1000 stories talking shop certification the pig page this farm life newsletters mid-atlantic marketing new farm japan FARM LOCATOR™ PRESS ROOM Farmers: Is organic certification worth it? CAST YOUR VOTE NOW Stay Up-to-Date – Sign up for our Newsletter NewFarm.org changes daily! Don't miss out on the latest interactive features, columns and news. Sign up now for our monthly e-newsletter and stay connected. ACTION ALERTS • Save foundation seed stocks from GM contamination • Support Saskatchewan farmers in efforts to block GM wheat • Raise your voice against factory hog operations Share Your Stories Are you a farmer? A consumer? Whatever story you have to tell, let it be an inspiration to others. Share it with us now... T H E N E W F A R M – R E G E N E R A T I V E A G R I C U L T U R E W O R L D W I D E ©2004 The Rodale Institute® • PRIVACY POLICY • Design: www.homeworkdesign.com Check out our other sites: The Rodale Institute® • Kidsregen.org From - Sat May 15 13:14:06 2004 X-UIDL: 368617738 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A4ECE266001E; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:24 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 8F8BEB2BB; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B31B2B4 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0534EB117 for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0006A5B3@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:15 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 70089 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:15 -0400 Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0006A5B0@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:14 -0400 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id d.155.34f28791 (16087) for ; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.137]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v99_r4.3) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed740a644da82; Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.21.158.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <4CAD47D7.6E4E2A75.404D8829@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Elaine Ingham Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] soil amendments from composting v fermentation To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368617738 Anaerobic metabolism includes several metabolic pathways, and the different end products from the different pathways need to be differentiated, because some pathways end up with plant toxic materials being produced, while others do not. However, all anaerobic processes result in significantly acidic organic acids being produced, which may or may not be a problem for your plants. Depends on the plants being grown, right? What pH do they need? Those organisms that produce mainly lactic and proprionic acid as the main metabolic end products and do not produce hydrogen sulfide or ammonia. They can make phosphine gas, however, which means your PO4 may be out-gassing. So, a little sour smell to the process, some loss pf PO4, somewhat low pH metabolites produced. This may not lower pH in hte pile much, since the acids mix with the organic matter that have a higher pH. Most people use the term "fermentative metabolism" for these metabolic processes. Wine and beer production use particular species that perform this type of anaerobic metabolism. Can we call this kind of anaerobic metabolism fermentation, please. As opposed to putrefaction. Putrefactive processes make the really bad smells, because hydrogen sulfide production is a putrefactive process. Ammonia is also produced, along with phosphine gas, and a host of really bad smelling organic acids, from vinegar (acetic acid) to vomit (valeric acid) to putrescine. Alcohol is produced by the bacteria in significant quantities, high enough concentration to kill plant roots. This can be a real problem if you use mulch that has suffered this kind of anaerobic metabolism. Note that I do not call this compost, becasue it is not compost. Putrefactive anaerobic conditions are what you want to avoid. If the compost pile becomes anaerobic, you need to turn it or dilute the food resources to slow the bacteria and fungi down. Bacteria and fungi can grow so fast that they use up most of the oxygen in the pile. They use up the oxygen because they are growing on the foods in the pile so fast. As they grow, they generate heat. Thus, if you are careful to never let the pile go anaerobic, heat will tell you when to turn. But if the pile goes anaerobic, then heat is not related to anything positive anymore. Composting is by definition an AEROBIC process. Worm compost has to be aerobic, because the worms require aerobic levels of oxygen. But the lower layers in a worm compost can go anaerobic. If that happens, the worms will no longer go down deep into the pile. And it is the SUM of the pile that needs to be considered. Pockets of the organic matter can have low oxygen, where the anaerobic metabolites will move into the aerobic areas, but as long as most of the pile is aerobic, the anaerobic metabolites get consumed by the aerobic organisms, and just help increase diversity in the pile. What's the right balance to achieve a pile that is enough aerobic? That's what the microbiology of compost course is about that I teach. A couple students are involved right now in replicating the process so we have the solid, scientifically sound results to present. Elaine Ingham President, Soil Foodweb Inc. SFI Corvallis, OR SFI Port Jefferson, NY SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands SFI Cambridge, New Zealand SFI Culiacan, Mexico SFI Jerome, Idaho http://www.soilfoodweb.com ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Mon May 17 22:04:17 2004 X-UIDL: 368617965 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A320895A0096; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:32 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 8DE22C664; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1E7C641 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8B1C604 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0006AD75@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:23 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 72275 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:23 -0400 Received: from mail.ncat.org (209.137.246.130:2601) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0006AD72@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 17 May 2004 18:56:23 -0400 Received: from ncat.org ([192.168.56.41]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i4HMuQl15436 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 16:56:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <40A942AD.9020401@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:54:37 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: [SANET-MG] Protozoa and plant growth: the microbial loop in soil revisited | New Phytologist To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 4. SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368617965 Here is a new article in the prestigious Tansley Reviews series, from New Phytologist, on protozoa and plant growth... to add to your soil biota / soil foodweb toolbox. Regards, Steve Diver **************************************************** Protozoa and plant growth: the microbial loop in soil revisited A Tansley Review New Phytologist Volume 162 Issue 3 Page 617 - June 2004 Michael Bonkowski Rhizosphere Ecology Group, Institut für Zoologie, Technische Universität Darmstadt, Darmstadt, Germany http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2004.01066.x http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2004.01066.x/abs Summary I. The rhizosphere interface of microbial and faunal interactions II. Microfauna and plant growth III. Victims and benefactors: how grazers affect bacterial community composition IV. Nonmotile plants with flexible strategies V. Case study: root foraging and microfaunal activity VI. Friend or foe? Microbial signals and the manipulation of root architecture VII. Carbon is the currency: microfauna interactions with mycorrhiza VIII. The plant bridging above- and below-ground processes IX. From microscale to macroscale: interactions at the plant community level X. Conclusions and future research Acknowledgements References **************************************************** **************************************************** ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Thu May 20 11:59:08 2004 X-UIDL: 368618219 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AEA247D0062; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:34 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id D888DABAC; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD0E6AB75 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58156AB51 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0006BBAB@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:24 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 76398 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:24 -0400 Received: from mail.ncat.org (209.137.246.130:4199) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0006BBA7@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 20 May 2004 11:28:23 -0400 Received: from ncat.org ([192.168.56.41]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i4KFSQl01328; Thu, 20 May 2004 09:28:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <40ACCE21.3040202@ncat.org> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Steve Diver Subject: [SANET-MG] Factors limiting persistence of entomopathogenic nematodes Comments: To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368618219 This article is interesting from a soil biology perspective. It showed that surface applied parasitic nematodes (intended to provide biological control of turf pests) were probably just eaten up by local predators; i.e., mites and collembola. When the parasitic nematodes (known as "entomopathogenic" nematodes) were incorporated into the soil, they survived much better. It seems like another opportunity for compost tea research; i.e., integrated delivery of parasitic nematodes with compost teas, to enhance survivial and efficacy of the biological control treatment. As a farmer or gardener who wants to use natural means of pest control, you can use parasitic nematodes to control pests like strawberry root weevil, sod webworms, cutworms, flea beetles, and fungus gnats. But when you spend all that money and time to rely on biocontrols, you want them to be effective. As you may be interested in what these parasitic nematodes are all about, see this fantastic website that was also funded by USDA-SARE. Insect Parasitic Nematodes http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/nematodes/ Regards, Steve Diver ********************************************************************* Factors limiting short-term persistence of entomopathogenic nematodes M. Wilson and R. Gaugler Department of Entomology, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ Journal of Applied Entomology Volume 128 Issue 4 Page 250 - May 2004 http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1439-0418.2004.00814.x http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0418.2004.00814.x/abs Abstract: Entomopathogenic nematodes are commonly applied to soil and crops for biocontrol of insects. Typically, when nematodes are applied, recoverable numbers decline quickly. Because ultra-violet light is known to kill entomopathogenic nematodes in the laboratory, many researchers blame poor field persistence on the action of ultra-violet light. We conducted a field experiment to test this hypothesis, using Heterorhabditis bacteriophora applied to turf as a model system. We compared persistence of surface-applied nematodes with subsurface-applied nematodes and found no difference in persistence. Numbers of potential nematode antagonists (mites and collembola) were also monitored. Poor persistence was positively correlated with numbers of mites and collembola in plots where nematodes were surface-applied, but not in plots where they were subsurface-applied. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Mon Jun 07 13:19:54 2004 X-UIDL: 368619200 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A3941560150; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:02:44 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 7BD42BB74; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9A7BB57 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 55248B8FA for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-9018-1086620560-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2004 15:02:41 -0000 X-Sender: Soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75777 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2004 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2004 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2004 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.59.dc3ca5f (15888) for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.167]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v99_r4.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e1040c4836e396; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:02:06 -0400 To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <6D721659.4F7AE3CF.404D8829@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 24.21.158.7 X-AOL-Language: english X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.204 From: soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: soilfoodweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:02:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Re: Aged manure? Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368619200 Hi Kirk -

If you don't like the confusion in which the world of composting is stuck, then be part of the solution, instead of continuing to confuse the situation.

It doesn't help the world of composting if you are not willing to define things clearly. 

Compost has to have been processed properly.  That term MUST be reserved to mean something specific. 

I don't care that some people have applied the definition incorrectly.  Start using the the term correctly, now, and you will begin to help instead of hinder.

Aged manure - if it has been composted, then call it compost. 

If manure has NOT been composted, then call it aged manure if it has sat around for a time.  How long?  What are the conditions that define aged manure becoming.... soil?  When might manure sit long enough, with adequate microbial processes, that it now becomes soil?

But if it is processed in that fashion, it is not compost.  Stop trying to muddy the waters and call it compost.  Stop with the some people do it this way, others that and isn't it all compost?  It is NOT compost unless specific conditions  are met.   

If dung beetles have processed manure, then perhaps there is no difference between dung-processed material and earthworm castings.  But how would you KNOW?

I would love it if Pat and Dick Richardson would document that.  It would be useful to get dung beetles recognized as having a commercial importance.  Pat and Dick have done so much for getting dung beetles as recognized as they are today, but there is still a great deal that needs doing! 

What terms that could be developed for all the permutations of partially composted material?  HELP the world of compost by coming up with the categories, defining them clearly, working to develop a consensus, and developing the scientific database that is needed to define these semi-composted materials.

Compost should be defined based on the starting materials used, and on the biological and chemical composition of the final product. 

IF we had data, we might be able to say that with a mix of certain starting materials, the final product ALWAYS has this biology and this chemistry. 

Kirk, I appreciate that you want the NOSB to do a better job, but the limits of the DATA are what push the NOSB and the USDA to their attitudes. 

Provide DATA that show that E. coli do not survive in thermal compost, in aged manure, in partically-composted materials (come up with better terms than that for each of the situations you want to have considered), in worm caste, produced under whatever conditions.  Define the conditions.

Do not try to make one study, the Eastman study, in the limited conditions of that study, suffice for all worm compost made everywhere. 

If you can't afford to run experiments that show what happens to human pathogens in all these different conditions of storing waste material, or show what happens to helminths when you treat wastes with worms, or dung beetles, or by heating with micrcobes, please recognize that you rely on rapid microbial growth to do the job.  But who herds the microbes?  Is it a turner, or worms, or dung bettles or enchytraeids doing the microbe herding? 

Define what you are talking about, help put this information into a useful form.  Otherwise, you just keep spinning your wheels, getting nowhere. 

Define the kinds of composting, the kinds of storage.  If you can't do the work, then read and put together a summary of all the data on composting.  That would help give a basis from which to start a series of experiments. 

Put together categories, define the categories that you think would encompass your problems, and do some literature work. 

You put that together, and then I'll put together the proposal to submit to a funding agency to get the work done.  I don't have the time to do the lit research. 

I'm asking for help, Kirk, or anyone else out there wanting to work on this.  Do the lit reviews, do the summarization, and define what you think are the important categories based on the knowledge we have.  Hopefully, while you do that, I can publish the data I do have.  We can then develop the next proposal. 

There just isn't enough time in a day for me to get to teh literature review.  Especiaily since I try to answer questions on this list.  Which is most important?  Answering questions here, publishing data, or continuing to help growers do the biological conversion? 

All of the above.  Then please help by getting the literature  reviewed.  Let us ALL work out the categories of what we think is important. 

Will that be a great discussion! 

Hand off back to you, Kirk!  Willing to work on this on the compost tea list? 

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
SFI Culiacan, Mexico
SFI Jerome, Idaho
http://www.soilfoodweb.com

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From - Thu Jun 24 21:35:14 2004 X-UIDL: 368620573 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A36B1ADB00FA; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:35:55 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 1FA6BBDAD; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04416C39C for ; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A39CBDB6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:35:54 -0400 (EDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-7527208-9279-1088123753-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2004 00:35:53 -0000 X-Sender: Soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66572 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2004 00:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2004 00:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2004 00:35:52 -0000 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.89.e358b30 (4238) for ; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89.e358b30.2e0ccd57@aol.com> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5030 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.6 From: soilfoodweb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: soilfoodweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com; contact compost_tea-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:35:35 EDT Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Soil Biology Primer Reply-To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1088123735" X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: sentto-7527208-9279-1088123753-lfl=intrex.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68] X-Note: Total weight is 1. NOABUSE X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368620573 -------------------------------1088123735 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bacteria are in general 2 to 5 micrometers in length, 1 to 3 micrometers in width. Fungi are generally 2.5 micrometers in width, can be miles in length. Protozoa vary from 5 micrometer width for the little guys to 100 micrometers for the big guys, all sorts of shapes. Soil nematodes are 10 to 50 micrometers width, to 10 to 20, up to 1 cm length. Magnifications were 1000X for the stained bacterial pictures, to 400X for some of the bacteria, 200 X for the fungi, to 6 X for the arthropods. Does that help? Sorry I was so slow getting back. Elaine R. Ingham Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon Soil Foodweb Inc., Port Jefferson, New York Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia Soil Foodweb Institue Cambridge, New Zealand Soil Foodweb Inc., Hilversum, The Netherlands Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan, Mexico Soil Foodweb Inc., Jerome, Idaho -------------------------------1088123735 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bacteria are in general 2 to 5 micrometers in length, 1 to 3 micrometers in width.
 
Fungi are generally 2.5 micrometers in width, can be miles in length. 
 
Protozoa vary from 5 micrometer width for the little guys to 100 micrometers for the big guys, all sorts of shapes. 
 
Soil nematodes are 10 to 50 micrometers width, to 10 to 20, up to 1 cm length.
 
Magnifications were 1000X for the stained bacterial pictures, to 400X for some of the bacteria, 200 X for the fungi, to 6 X for the arthropods. 
 
Does that help?  Sorry I was so slow getting back. 
 
 
Elaine R. Ingham
Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon
Soil Foodweb Inc., Port Jefferson, New York
Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia
Soil Foodweb Institue Cambridge, New Zealand
Soil Foodweb Inc., Hilversum, The Netherlands
Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan, Mexico
Soil Foodweb Inc., Jerome, Idaho

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-------------------------------1088123735-- From - Mon Jun 28 20:32:23 2004 X-UIDL: 368620837 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A9E4862C00E4; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:21:24 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 1B255CB5C; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2659C814 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enviroserver.envirolink.org (enviroserver.envirolink.org [208.40.195.228]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 93DA2CB07 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24019 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2004 22:24:25 -0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (HELO enviroserver.envirolink.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost.localdomain with SMTP; 28 Jun 2004 22:24:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 24009 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2004 22:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.ncat.org) (root@209.137.246.130) by 208.40.195.228 with SMTP; 28 Jun 2004 22:24:23 -0000 Received: from ncat.org ([192.168.56.41]) (authenticated) by mail.ncat.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i5SMLEb19874 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:21:14 -0600 Message-ID: <40E09945.2050204@ncat.org> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:18:45 -0500 From: Steve Diver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion Subject: Re: BD Now! Compost turners References: <00fa01c45c08$ffdbdfb0$b401a8c0@GLEN> <011d01c45d47$934c9f70$6401a8c0@louise8r29y4or> <5.2.1.1.2.20040628225549.01aaa6f8@mail.onetel.net.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion List-Id: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: bdnow-bounces@envirolink.org Errors-To: bdnow-bounces@envirolink.org X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: bdnow-bounces@envirolink.org [208.40.195.228] X-Note: Total weight is 0. None X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368620837 Yes, the little self-propelled is a Sandberger turner. The whole page is in the tradition of Luebke compost and Sandberger turners, from the compost fleece to the temperature and CO2 chart showing Breakdown and Buildup phases. In Europe, contact: Sandberger http://www.sandberger.com/englisch/start.html Compara.nl http://www.compara.nl/ http://www.compara.nl/engels.shtml In the U.S., George Leidig with Autrusa/Imants USA carries the smaller turners. Do not look at the web page and assume that what you see is all you get. You have to inquire about the smaller turners. I have slides of a little compost turner that attaches to a bobcat-like mini-tractor. It was in use at a market-farm greenhouse in Bavaria. It was sweet. The greenhouse grower and market farmer, who based the whole operation on quality compost, was happy with the compost turner. It so happens that I have the most comprehensive paper on Luebke compost, also known as controlled microbial compost. Luebke compost is geared to premium-grade, well humified, compost that has clay-humus microbiology and overall consistent quality. There is a prominent biodynamic CSA that uses a Sandberger turner and BD preps to make BD compost. You can also make Luebke compost with a pitch fork, you just make smaller windrows. It is the process of management and amendments that achieves this type of clay-humus crumb. But it is more intensive than what many farmers can afford to spend time on. For small-scale composting, you can also use a manure spreader and two tractors. You PTO-operate the manure spreader with one tractor, and load the feedstock into the manure spreader with the second tractor. It mixes the material and lays it out onto a windrow. But thereafter, you will need to turn with a bucket, or repeat the process. It amounts to a major hassle compared to a bonafied compost turner. Manure forks that clamp onto the end of a bucket loader, can turn a bucket-loading tractor into a compost turning machine, much better than one without the tines. Steve Diver Arjen Huese wrote: > Hello, > > I am doing some research in finding out where to find affordable > compost turners for small scale compost (windrow) turning. Does > anybody have any suggestions? > > I found this website with a picture of an electrically powered small > scale windrow turner: > http://www.ncl.ac.uk/tcoa/projects/compostpotsveg.htm > but it doesn't say anything about where it comes from. Does anybody > recognise it? > > Cheers > > Arjen Huese > _______________________________________________ BDNow mailing list BDNow@envirolink.org You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow From - Wed Aug 18 09:14:50 2004 X-UIDL: 368624969 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ADF5F783014E; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:31:01 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 9A488B447; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E9B0B42F for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.sare.org [128.227.242.235]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B488B37A for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srvtask (lists.sare.org) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00082827@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 7:30:45 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 81782 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:30:45 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay24-f20.bay24.hotmail.com) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00082824@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 7:30:44 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 04:30:44 -0700 Received: from 203.131.112.82 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:30:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.131.112.82] X-Originating-Email: [gil_carandang@hotmail.com] X-Sender: gil_carandang@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2004 11:30:44.0303 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCAF45F0:01C48516] Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:30:43 +0000 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: gil carandang Subject: [SANET-MG] HerbanaFarmsPhilippines new website To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.242.235] X-Note: Total weight is 3. COUNTRIES X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368624969 hi all| you can now visit our website: "www.herbanafarmsphilippines.com" thanks, gil carandang herbana farms philippines _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sat Apr 02 11:33:54 2005 X-UIDL: 368646865 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AFE286F0024; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 09:44:50 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 3233DABA1; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:44:50 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BBEAB65 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9CDAA0C for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:44:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from if-srv-listsrv (128.227.252.37:4099) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000CF29F@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 9:43:50 -0500 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 176356 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:43:47 -0500 Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000CF296@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 9:43:47 -0500 Received: from dell4100 ([65.93.180.44]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050402144353.NFQM27508.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@dell4100>; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:43:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C53768.712CB910" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcU3klkGdYvtBn57TQC7zDjEGxNBeA== Message-ID: <20050402144353.NFQM27508.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@dell4100> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:43:35 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Frank Teuton Subject: [SANET-MG] Composting versus soil application of organic residues--a second look Comments: To: jgruv@hotmail.com Comments: cc: dschellinger@agcenter.lsu.edu To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. COUNTRIES, SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368646865 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C53768.712CB910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back in 1998, Joel Gruver made the following post to SANET: http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/28-html/0043.html Hello to all... Last year, Dr. Ray Weil and 5 grad students at the U of MD (including myself) pondered the difference between OM stabilization in a composting system prior to soil application as compared to the direct application of undecomposed OM to soil. We assembled an extensive literature review that we intended to submit for publication but we never quite finished it... we investigated this issue from several angles... we considered long term C sequestration, effects on plant availability of micro and macro nutrients, effects on soil structure and effects on disease suppresion. My focus was on soil structural effects... in a nutshell, the process of decomposition/microbial activity is very important to aggregate formation and stabilization... a majority of studies seemed to show that more labile organic substrates had greater formation and stabilization effects (both short and long term in some cases) than materials that were more recalcitrant like a mature compost... The issue of differences in carbon sequestration was not discussed in many articles... I continue to ponder this issue and I tend to feel that decomposition in intimate contact with mineral surfaces is a very important feature in the formation of chemically and physically protected soil organic matter. Thus I think that unless you are adding lots of soil/clay to your compost you will be losing more C than if you let the decompostion take place on or in soil. However tilling/incorporating materials into soil, fractures aggregates, increases soil aeration... and thus promotes loss of indigenous SOM... its a tricky question... I think the reduced volume, and homogenized consistency of good compost makes it a superior material for handling and that is very desireable for farmers... Our literature sits almost finished somewhere in Dr. Weils office... I suppose we could send an unfinished copy to someone with a deep interest in the subject... Joel Gruver U of MD, Soil Quality research Other folks joined in, including Steve Diver and Cary Oshins; this was the post that seemed to get things started: http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/28-html/0037.html > Dan Hemenway wrote: > Well, I enjoyed Steve's informed rant on buckwheat and P, though I disagree > with several points. I'll mention a few: >............stuff deleted.......... > * I disagree with the strong emphasis on composting separate from > the general soil activities. In my view, composting is something I > need to do when I lack a more direct means to apply organic matter to > my permaculture system or if there is something wrong with the > material to be composted (e.g. pathogens). There are vital pulses in > soil chemistry that are short circuited by removing the composting > operation from the soil in general. If you apply P-bearing materials > to the surface (bone meal, phosphate rock, etc.) and apply mulch, > sheet mulch except when inappropriate, the P will be released at > exactly the zone where plant roots gather nutrients. (See Vol. I, > #3, of the International Permaculture Solutions Journal). The same > is true of other rock powders (with the same reservations), etc. On the topic on sheet mulch composting in place versus composting in piles or windrows, I'd say it depends on the situation. The method you described certainly works. Worms like that type of mulch and decay. In practice, it seems limited to home gardens and small-scale market gardens. The benefits and uses of compost as a stable humus product containing numerous exchange sites and microbials are well known. I came across the following Sanet post by Ann Clark back in 1995, that contains some relevant ideas. Here it is again. Steve Diver >From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" >Organization: Crop Science, The Univ. of Guelph >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:57:06 EDT >Subject: Re: Humus -- rural -> urban -> rural >Priority: normal Responding to Dick R. on the issue of composting. Just curious about the comment that it is better if composting occurs in the soil. Just finished an M.Sc. student doing a study on composting and we didn't come across this idea in the lit. I'd be interested in learning what it is that is more beneficial about composting in-situ - in the soil - as against ahead of time. Evidence from the literature? Conventional organic wisdom hereabouts sees placement of raw manure directly into the soil as a net negative, because of a) rapid release of N which destabilizes cycling, b) VFA's which can be caustic, and c) potential for anaerobic decomposition when high moisture substrate (whether animal manure or direct cut red clover) is plowed into the soil. As an example, they recommend cutting and wilting red clover plowdown before plowing it in, to avoid this problem. Good points on "waste" management at landfills! Ann ACLARK@crop.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Steve Diver's follow up post added the following points: http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/28-html/0045.html "There's a little-known but valuable publication from Wallace Laboratores titled "Soil Conditioner and Amendment Technologies, Volume 1," which is more or less a collection of articles originally published in a special issue -- Sustainability of the Soil and The Environment -- of Communications in Soil Science and Plant Analysis. One of the articles titled "Compost and Composting: Facts and Myths" gets into composting vs soil application. Selected excerpts: "Most people think that making compost is to create fertilizer. Other people use composting to creat a potting soil. Ten other reasons for so-called composting are... 1. to decrease the volume of waste, especially for going into landfills, 2. to decrease odors, 3. to kill pathogens and weed seeds, 4. to create more favorable carbon:nitrogen ratios so as to not induce nitrogen deficiencies in crops, 5. to destroy natural toxins like tannins and allelopathic compounds, 6. to decrease levels of synthetic pesticides that may be in organic waste by partial if not complete decomposition of them, 7. to provide a means for making iron and other micronutrients available to plants, 8. to impart to soil a mechanism for retarding soil-borne diseases nematodes, 9. to make a more convenient product for applying to soil, and 10.to provide a means for increasing the cation-exchange capacity of the soil, the water-holding capacity of the soil, and to decrease crusting and erosion or soil. Additionally, many believe that composts help decrease the incidence of plant diseases other than soil-borne." "For improvement of physical properties of soil, actual decomposition in the soil, rather than composting, is best because polysacharides are produced from carbon compounds that would otherwise be lost in composting. These natural water-soluble polymers do much to create and stabilize the soil aggregates to give good physical properties to soil. It may be better to use the carbon to synthesize polysaccharides than to burn a lot of it to make heat to sterilize the compost, unless sterilization is necessary like with sewage sludge. For the same reason, partially decomposed organic matter obtained in the first phase of composting may be better for soil improvement than would mature composts which function mostly as a soil amendment that dilutes the soil, decreases bulk density, and gives more pore space in the soil because of the wedges." Recently I have been having a discussion with Dave Schellinger over on the USCC list (compost list) concerning this very matter. Mr Schellinger put forward the view that raw organic matter actually decreases aggregate formation in the soil, and cited some literature claiming to support his point: "Humus binds clay particles, but raw organic matter disperses and reduces aggregates. Bohn, et al., 2001, points out that greater aggregation produces less stable organic matter contents in soils due to increased aeration and microbiological degradation. Even aggregates become less stable with added organic matter. This coincides with my statement that raw organic matter additions reduces ped formation. Approximately 50-80% of fresh organic matter is lost from most temperate soils in the year of application, just like during the composting process. And, the smaller the particle size, the faster the degradation occurs. If more organic matter is added to the soil, it degrades faster. The book points to an experiment in England where a farm had been applying manures to a cultivated soil annually since 1943 (30 tonnes/h) but had never been able to bring the soil organic fraction back to the uncultivated levels. If soils are to benefit from organic matter additions, there must be a continual supply of fresh organic matter to the soils. It makes more sense, therefore, to add a more stable form of organic matter to soils rather that raw organic matter forms." Mr. Schellinger also put forward the proposition that the addition of raw organic materials to soils increased production of various greenhouse gases, aside from CO2, compared to composting prior to soil application. In large part I think he based this on the risk of flooding and excessive rain; his location in Louisiana might have something to do with that concern.;-) I put forward the counter proposition, that raw organic residues could well improve the greenhouse gas status of a soil, if they resulted in improved soil structure and subsequent improved plant growth. The importance of seeing the full picture of these scenarios is great, I believe. I would certainly appreciate input from Joel Gruver and others concerning our current understanding of these matters. I did cite in our exchange the work of Dr Fred Magdoff, who actually compared two scenarios of manure management and found direct application of manure to yield better aggregation than composting the manure first: http://www.mofga.org/mofgj00j.html It should also be noted that no tillage scenario I am aware of allows for a sustainable return to uncultivated SOM levels without heroic applications of organic matter, and this because tillage is itself a major destructive force against SOM. However, by using rotations including several years of proper pasturing soil can be kept at acceptable OM levels even in tillage regimes. This approach has been used for centuries, known in some quarters as the 'British ley' system. Reduced tillage regimes such as strip or zone tillage also offer benefits in conserving SOM, but of course no till systems conserve SOM best. The question of 'to compost, or not to compost' hits farmers squarely in the face, especially those whose livestock are fed exclusively or nearly so from the farm acreage itself. One factor we did not discuss is the issue of transportation costs and the mechanical costs of composting, which obviously also have greenhouse gas consequences. Labor time savings for the farmer are also an issue. This is less of an issue where manure producers rely on transported inputs and generate large quantities of manure which must subsequently be retransported substantial distances; there the calculus should favor composting on shipping cost grounds quite strongly. Of course, the farm's overall crop diversity and the need for mature, relatively weed free compost for specific crops are also factors which the decision maker needs to consider. I actually experience an opposite situation. I have access to large quantities of shredded compressed dry fall leaves. In my view it clearly seems favourable to transport these as is to my growing site prior to application, rather than composting them first which would mean the addition of a substantial amount of water, as well as requiring space which at present is unavailable. This might be analogous to the handling of hay, which when dry and bailed can be transported more cost effectively than if it were composted and moist. There remains the issue of whether to compost prior to soil application, of course. With hay the issue of weed seeds looms large, for any future open soil growing; even with leaves there is some potential for weed seed presence. I consider that the use of these leaves both as mulch and as incorporated organic matter will predominate in the mixed vegetable, small fruit and tree orchard context which I participate in. Doubtless some will also be thermally and worm composted as well, to produce materials for compost teas and watery extracts as well as direct applications. I believe that my sandy soil will benefit from direct decomposition of the leaves and subsequent fungal growth in the soil itself more than if all the leaves were composted before application. Because this soil is very well drained I anticipate no serious anaerobicity problems leading to methane or NOx production as a result. In more poorly drained soils that experience spring and/or fall flooding, it could very well be wise to compost and apply shortly before planting, or as crop choices permit, to apply after danger of flooding is past but with sufficient time to decompose prior to planting. I would appreciate any specific or general comments on these subjects. I can make the full text of the exchanges between myself and Mr Schellinger available to anyone interested. Frank Teuton ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C53768.712CB910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Back in 1998, Joel Gruver made the following = post to SANET:

 

http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/28-html/0043.html

 

Hello to all...
Last year, Dr. Ray Weil and 5 grad students at the U of MD = (including
myself) pondered the difference between OM stabilization
in a composting system prior to soil application as compared to the
direct application of undecomposed OM = to soil.
We assembled an extensive literature review that we intended to submit = for
publication but we never quite finished it... we investigated this = issue
from several angles... we considered long term C sequestration, = effects
on plant availability of micro and macro nutrients, effects on soil
structure and effects on disease = suppresion.

My focus was on soil structural effects... in a nutshell, the process
of decomposition/microbial activity is very important to aggregate
formation and stabilization... a majority of studies seemed to show = that
more labile organic substrates had greater formation and = stabilization
effects (both short and long term in some cases) than materials that = were
more recalcitrant like a mature compost...

The issue of differences in carbon sequestration was not discussed in = many
articles... I continue to ponder this issue and I tend to feel that
decomposition in intimate contact with mineral surfaces is a very
important feature in the formation of chemically and physically = protected
soil organic matter. Thus I think that unless you are adding lots of
soil/clay to your compost you will be losing more C than if you let = the
decompostion take place on or in soil. However tilling/incorporating
materials into soil, fractures aggregates, increases soil aeration... = and
thus promotes loss of indigenous SOM... its a tricky question...
I think the reduced volume, and homogenized consistency of good = compost
makes it a superior material for handling and that is very desireable = for
farmers...

Our literature sits almost finished somewhere in Dr. Weils office... I
suppose we could send an unfinished copy to someone with a deep = interest
in the subject...

Joel Gruver
U of MD, Soil Quality research

 

Other folks joined in, including Steve Diver and Cary Oshins; this was the = post that seemed to get things started:

http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/28-html/0037.html

> Dan Hemenway wrote: =
> Well, I enjoyed Steve's = informed rant on buckwheat and P, though I disagree
> with several points. I'll = mention a few:
>............stuff = deleted..........
> * I disagree with the strong = emphasis on composting separate from
> the general soil activities. = In my view, composting is something I
> need to do when I lack a more = direct means to apply organic matter to
> my permaculture system or if = there is something wrong with the
> material to be composted (e.g. pathogens). There are vital pulses in
> soil chemistry that are short = circuited by removing the composting
> operation from the soil in = general. If you apply P-bearing materials
> to the surface (bone meal, = phosphate rock, etc.) and apply mulch,
> sheet mulch except when = inappropriate, the P will be released at
> exactly the zone where plant = roots gather nutrients. (See Vol. I,
> #3, of the International = Permaculture Solutions Journal). The same
> is true of other rock powders = (with the same reservations), etc.

On the topic on sheet mulch composting in place versus composting
in piles or windrows, I'd say it depends on the situation. The
method you described certainly works. Worms like that type of
mulch and decay. In practice, it seems limited to home gardens
and small-scale market gardens.

The benefits and uses of compost as a stable humus product
containing numerous exchange sites and microbials are well known. =

I came across the following Sanet post by Ann Clark back in 1995,
that contains some relevant ideas. Here it is again. =

Steve Diver

>From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor"
>Organization: Crop Science, The = Univ. of Guelph
>To: = sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:57:06 = EDT
>Subject: Re: Humus -- rural = -> urban -> rural
>Priority: = normal

Responding to Dick R. on the issue of composting. Just curious about
the comment that it is better if composting occurs in the soil. Just
finished an M.Sc. student doing a study on composting and we didn't
come across this idea in the lit. I'd be interested in learning what
it is that is more beneficial about composting in-situ - in the soil = -
as against ahead of time. Evidence from the literature? =


Conventional organic wisdom hereabouts sees placement of raw manure
directly into the soil as a net negative, because of a) rapid = release
of N which destabilizes cycling, b) VFA's which can be caustic, and = c)
potential for anaerobic decomposition when high moisture substrate
(whether animal manure or direct cut red clover) is plowed into the
soil. As an example, they recommend cutting and wilting red clover
plowdown before plowing it in, to avoid this problem. =

Good points on "waste" management at landfills! Ann
ACLARK@crop.uoguelph.ca
Dr. E. Ann Clark
Associate Professor
Crop Science
University of Guelph

 

Steve Diver’s follow up post added the following = points:

http://www.sare.org/sanet-mg/archives/html-home/28-html/0045.html

“There's a little-known but valuable = publication from Wallace
Laboratores titled "Soil Conditioner and Amendment Technologies, =
Volume 1," which is more or less a collection of articles = originally
published in a special issue -- Sustainability of the Soil and The
Environment -- of Communications in Soil Science and Plant = Analysis.

One of the articles titled "Compost and Composting: Facts
and Myths" gets into composting vs soil = application.

Selected excerpts:

"Most people think that making compost is to create fertilizer.
Other people use composting to creat a potting soil. Ten other
reasons for so-called composting are...

1. to decrease the volume of waste, especially for going into
landfills,
2. to decrease odors,
3. to kill pathogens and weed seeds,
4. to create more favorable carbon:nitrogen ratios so as to not
induce nitrogen deficiencies in crops,
5. to destroy natural toxins like tannins and allelopathic
compounds,
6. to decrease levels of synthetic pesticides that may be in organic =
waste by partial if not complete decomposition of them,
7. to provide a means for making iron and other micronutrients
available to plants,
8. to impart to soil a mechanism for retarding soil-borne diseases
nematodes,
9. to make a more convenient product for applying to
soil, and
10.to provide a means for increasing the cation-exchange capacity
of the soil, the water-holding capacity of the soil, and to
decrease crusting and erosion or soil.
Additionally, many believe that composts help decrease the incidence
of plant diseases other than soil-borne." =

"For improvement of physical properties of soil, actual decomposition
in the soil, rather than composting, is best because polysacharides
are produced from carbon compounds that would otherwise be lost in
composting. These natural water-soluble polymers do much to create
and stabilize the soil aggregates to give good physical properties to =
soil. It may be better to use the carbon to synthesize
polysaccharides than to burn a lot of it to make heat to sterilize
the compost, unless sterilization is necessary like with sewage
sludge. For the same reason, partially decomposed organic matter
obtained in the first phase of composting may be better for soil
improvement than would mature composts which function mostly as a
soil amendment that dilutes the soil, decreases bulk density, and
gives more pore space in the soil because of the wedges." =

Recently I have been having a discussion with Dave Schellinger over on the USCC = list (compost list) concerning this very matter. Mr Schellinger put forward = the view that raw organic matter actually decreases aggregate formation in the = soil, and cited some literature claiming to support his = point:

Humus binds clay particles, but raw organic matter = disperses and reduces aggregates.  Bohn, et al., 2001, points out that greater aggregation produces less stable organic matter contents in soils due to increased aeration and microbiological degradation.  Even = aggregates become less stable with added organic matter.  This coincides with = my statement that raw organic matter additions reduces ped formation.  = Approximately 50-80% of fresh organic matter is lost from most temperate soils in the = year of application, just like during the composting process.  And, the = smaller the particle size, the faster the degradation occurs.  If more = organic matter is added to the soil, it degrades faster. The book points to an experiment in England where a farm had been applying manures to a cultivated soil annually = since 1943 (30 tonnes/h) but had never been able to bring the soil organic fraction = back to the uncultivated levels. If soils are to benefit from organic matter additions, there must be a continual supply of fresh organic matter to = the soils.  It makes more sense, therefore, to add a more stable form = of organic matter to soils rather that raw organic matter = forms.”

 

Mr. Schellinger also put forward the proposition that the addition of raw = organic materials to soils increased production of various greenhouse gases, = aside from CO2, compared to composting prior to soil application. In large part I = think he based this on the risk of flooding and excessive rain; his location in = Louisiana = might have something to do with that concern…;-)

 

I = put forward the counter proposition, that raw organic residues could well improve = the greenhouse gas status of a soil, if they resulted in improved soil = structure and subsequent improved plant growth. The importance of seeing the full = picture of these scenarios is great, I believe. I would certainly appreciate = input from Joel Gruver and others concerning our current understanding of these = matters. I did cite in our exchange the work of Dr Fred Magdoff, who actually = compared two scenarios of manure management and found direct application of manure to = yield better aggregation than composting the manure = first:

 

http://www.mofga.org/mofgj00j= .html

 

 

It should also be noted that no tillage scenario I am aware of allows for a sustainable = return to uncultivated SOM levels without heroic applications of organic = matter, and this because tillage is itself a major destructive force against SOM. = However, by using rotations including several years of proper pasturing soil can = be kept at acceptable OM levels even in = tillage regimes. This approach has been used for centuries, known in some = quarters as the ‘British ley’ system. Reduced tillage regimes such as = strip or zone tillage also offer benefits in conserving SOM, but of course no = till systems conserve SOM best.

 

 

The question of ‘to compost, or not to compost’ hits farmers squarely in = the face, especially those whose livestock are fed exclusively or nearly so = from the farm acreage itself. One factor we did not discuss is the issue of transportation costs and the mechanical costs of composting, which = obviously also have greenhouse gas consequences. Labor time savings for the farmer = are also an issue. This is less of an issue where manure producers rely on transported inputs and generate large quantities of manure which must subsequently be retransported substantial distances; there the calculus = should favor composting on shipping cost grounds quite strongly. Of course, the = farm’s overall crop diversity and the need for mature, relatively weed free = compost for specific crops are also factors which the decision maker needs to = consider.

 

I actually experience an opposite situation. I = have access to large quantities of shredded compressed dry fall leaves. In my = view it clearly seems favourable to transport these as is to my growing site = prior to application, rather than composting them first which would mean the = addition of a substantial amount of water, as well as requiring space which at = present is unavailable. This might be analogous to the handling of hay, which = when dry and bailed can be transported more cost effectively than if it were = composted and moist. There remains the issue of whether to compost prior to soil application, of course. With hay the issue of weed seeds looms large, = for any future open soil growing; even with leaves there is some potential for = weed seed presence.

 

I consider that the use of these leaves both = as mulch and as incorporated organic matter will predominate in the mixed = vegetable, small fruit and tree orchard context which I participate in. Doubtless = some will also be thermally and worm composted as well, to produce materials = for compost teas and watery extracts as well as direct applications. I = believe that my sandy soil will benefit from direct decomposition of the leaves and subsequent fungal growth in the soil itself more than if all the leaves = were composted before application. Because this soil is very well drained I anticipate = no serious anaerobicity problems leading to methane or NOx production as a = result. In more poorly drained soils that experience spring and/or fall = flooding, it could very well be wise to compost and apply shortly before planting, or = as crop choices permit, to apply after danger of flooding is past but with sufficient time to decompose prior to = planting.

 

I would appreciate any specific or general = comments on these subjects. I can make the full text of the exchanges between = myself and Mr Schellinger available to anyone = interested.

 

Frank Teuton

&NBSP;

*****************************************************

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&NBSP;

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C53768.712CB910-- From - Mon Apr 11 21:19:51 2005 X-UIDL: 368647771 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ADD1B6DF007E; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:45 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 3184FAA1E; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3D7AA1B for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87667AA39 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listsrv (128.227.252.37:3001) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000D3500@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:13 -0400 Received: from LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 197248 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:13 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav18.bay101.hotmail.com) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.000D34FD@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:12 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:19:22 -0700 Received: from 64.4.56.200 by BAY101-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:19:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [jgruv@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jgruv@hotmail.com References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2005 19:19:22.0873 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E258E90:01C53ECB] Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:19:30 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Joel Gruver Subject: [SANET-MG] bioenergy from a C mass balance perspective Comments: cc: Michael Wagger , Lisa Stocking , "Ray R. Weil" , shuijin_hu@ncsu.edu To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368647771 Hello folks, As we discuss the impacts of using crop residues or other organic materials for energy purposes (as compared to soil amendment), it is important to evaluate possible scenarios from a C mass balance perspective. The functional benefits of SOM (nutrient storage, structural stabilization, water holding capacity, nourishing of soil organisms...) are well documented and widely appreciated... in contrast, the factors which constrain SOM accumulation (e.g. climate, texture, mineralogy, landscape position...) and interactions between these factors and management (e.g. tillage, fertilization, organic additions, irrigation...) are rather poorly understood. Current research (including my own) is evaluating the concept of saturatable pools of SOM... an example of a potentially saturatable pool of OM is the OM that gets adsorbed on the surfaces of fine mineral particles. There is considerable evidence that adsorption on the surfaces of clay and fine silt particles can confer protection against decomposition. The amount of OM that can be protected by adsorption on mineral surfaces is likely to be a finite quantity related to the chemical and physical properties of a soil's mineral particles (e.g. external surface area, internal surface area, CEC...). The impact of new organic inputs on soil function and the partitioning of new organic inputs into SOM fractions (microbial biomass, particulate OM, humus...) and CO2 is likely to depend on the quantity and quality of OM already in the soil. All of the above is intended to set the stage for a brief discussion of the following question: How will the removal of crop residue for bioenergy purposes impact C mass balance ? When fossil hydrocarbon energy sources (natural gas, oil and coal) are displaced by renewable carbohydrate sources (e.g. crop residue, wood...) less CO2 is released into the atmosphere...unless of course, the C cost of production, harvest, processing and transportation of the renewable carbohydrate source is greater than the fossil C it displaces. When crop residues are returned to soil, most of the C in the residues is returned to the atmosphere as CO2 within a year. Biologically mediated soil processes (nutrient transformations, biodrilling, detoxification...) are energized as residue C traverses the redox continuum from carbohydrate to CO2... Interactions between management practices and the factors described above control whether the soil will act as a net source, net sink or just a conduit of C. If a soil system is at or near saturation i.e. accumulating very little SOM because of non-management factors, use of crop residue for bioenergy purposes will probably result in a more favorable C balance than if the residue were returned to the soil and quickly converted back into CO2. If a soil system has low OM relative to its potential and management practices are adopted which promote C accumulation, return of residues will probably result in a more favorable C balance than if the residue was removed for bioenergy purposes. Hope that this makes sense... looking forward to your comments. Joel BTW I will send some comments on composting vs. direct land application of raw organics shortly... Joel ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Fri Mar 17 22:31:26 2006 X-UIDL: 368686870 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AFE4611700B0; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:44 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id D03DFAA3F; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:44 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B550CAA3C for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27590A9F3 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.00008069@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:24 -0500 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 282652 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:23 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav13.bay101.hotmail.com) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.0000806B@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:23 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:26:22 -0800 Received: from 152.1.121.213 by BAY101-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:26:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [152.1.121.213] X-Originating-Email: [jgruv@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jgruv@hotmail.com References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Mar 2006 02:26:22.0594 (UTC) FILETIME=[5923BE20:01C64A33] Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Joel Gruver Subject: [SANET-MG] field studies evaluating mycorrhizal inoculum To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368686870 Hello Jarrod, Appended below are citations for a few studies that have evaluated mycorrhizal fungi inoculum in the field. The database of mycorhiza literature at the following link contains many more: http://mycorrhiza.ag.utk.edu/ Douds, D.D. and C. Reider. 2003. Inoculation with mycorrhizal fungi increases the yield of green peppers in a high P soil. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. 21: 91-102. Douds, D.D., Nagahashi, G., Pfeffer, P.E., Kayser, W.M. and C. Reider. 2005. On-farm production and utilization of mycorrhizal fungus inoculum. Canadian Journal of Plant Science.85: 5-21. J. Secilia and D.J. Bagyaraj. 1994. Evaluation and first-year field testing of efficient vesicular arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi for inoculation of wetland rice seedlings, World Journal of Microbiology and Biotechnology, 10(4): 381 - 384 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jarrod Gunn-Mcquillan" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Entrez PubMed Soil Quality & phosphate availability > Does anyone know of any field studies using Mycorrhizae?? There seems to be > lots of greenhouse, microcosm etc. etc. > > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group > [mailto:SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Dale Wilson > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:00 AM > To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU > Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Entrez PubMed Soil Quality & phosphate > availability > > > Hi Edna, > > >> I'm afraid I'm over my head on this subject. I'm interested, > >> but I understood maybe about half of what I read and my > >> unabridged dictionary didn't help me a whole lot.... > >> Can anyone tell me if that is the take home message in this > >> research? > > Unlike nitrogen and potassium, phosphorus in the soil is tightly bound > to the mineral fraction. As water moves from the soil into the roots, > potassium and nitrogen and most other minerals are swept along into the > plant along with the water (yeah, I know, this is an > oversimplification), but not so with phosphorus. The roots have to go > GET phosphorus by intimate contact with soil particles. Most plants > simply cannot produce enough root surface area to get the phosphorus > they need, even when there is plenty around. Almost all crops form a > symbiotic relationship with a class of fungus called "arbuscular > mycorrhizae fungi" (AMF). The AMF live in the soil and have an > extensive network of fine mycelia. As a young plant is established, > the root system becomes infected by the AMF which transports phosphorus > into the roots. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbuscular_mycorrhiza > > "Mycorrhizae helper bacteria" work with the AMF to help dissolve P from > the surfaces of soil particles. The abstract cited by Lawrence studied > an association between the AMF and the "growth-promoting rhizobacteria" > Bacillus subtilis and Entrobacter. > > Here is the full text of the paper: > http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/63/11/4408 > > Lawrence wrote: > > I interpret this to mean that the researchers discovered that the > > presence of a specific AM fungus innoculated with two phosphate- > > solubilizing ("helper") bacteria in soils with low phosphate > > bioavailability resulted in higher levels of plant available > > phosphorus and "significantly increased biomass and N and P > > accumulation in plant tissues". > > I don't think this is a new finding. The main point of the paper seems > to be the use the isotopic dilution method as a tool. There is a lot > of literature about this subject. > > > So, is anyone marketing a soil innoculant for organic and > > sustainable farmers who periodically apply rock phosphate to > > farmland with normally low P bioavailability (I assume this can > > be detected in a soil test)? > > I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that inoculation with these organisms > in normal field situations will be beneficial. I would try it out > carefully in designed experiments and distrust promotional literature. > AMF is normally present in most fields, and the bacteria mentioned are > rugged and extremely common in soil. The paper does show why rock > phosphate (RP) might be more available to plants than one would think > from the soil chemistry per se. I still would make sure my RP is > high-grade and finely ground. > > Dale > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the > list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the > SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Mar 19 13:58:04 2006 X-UIDL: 368687173 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 12000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A616274B006E; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:58 -0500 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id EDDD8ACF7; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:58 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C22AC8F for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E3ABCB3 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.000082CF@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 19 Mar 2006 11:25:35 -0500 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 288051 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:34 -0500 Received: from cs5.cropsci.ad.ncsu.edu by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.000082EF@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 19 Mar 2006 11:25:34 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C64B71.BF6B8C29" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <293F41C91E22C04D96E863676D21936B8EDB2E@cs5.cropsci.ad.ncsu.edu> Thread-Topic: [SANET-MG] Entrez PubMed Soil Quality & phosphate availability Thread-Index: AcZJ4UHjlHt/NiVWTnqb2bw5iFlm4ABjylbC References: A Message-ID: <293F41C91E22C04D96E863676D21936B8EDB2E@cs5.cropsci.ad.ncsu.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:34 -0500 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Michelle Schroeder Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Entrez PubMed Soil Quality & phosphate availability To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368687173 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64B71.BF6B8C29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jared,=20 =20 There are quite a few studies done with arbuscular mycorrhizas in the = field. To add to Joel's list, I would also include: =20 1. Kabir, Z. and Koide, R. T, 2002, Effect of autumn and winter = mycorrhizal cover crops on soil properties, nutrient uptake and yield of = sweet corn in Pennsylvania, USA, Plant and Soil, 238(2):205-215. =20 2. Boswell, E. P., Koide, R. T., Shumway, D. L.,Addy, H. D., 1998, = Winter wheat cover cropping, VA mycorrhizal fungi and maize growth and = yield, Agriculture, Ecosystems, and Environment, 67(1):55-65. =20 3.Cheng, X. M., Baumgartner, K., 2004, Arbuscular mycorrhizal = fungi-mediated nitrogen transfer from vineyard cover crops to = grapevines, Biology and Fertility of Soils, 40(6): 406:412. =20 As Joel mentioned, you can search for all the mycorrhiza literature on = the Mycorrhiza Information Exchange database at = http://mycorrhiza.ag.utk.edu/ . =20 Sincerely, michelle schroeder =20 =20 =20 Michelle S. Schroeder, Ph.D. Assistant Professor, Agroecology =20 Crop Science Department North Carolina State University 2406 Williams Hall Campus Box 7620 Raleigh, NC 27695-7620 USA =20 Phone: (919) 513-0085 FAX: (919) 515-7959 Email: michelle_schroeder@ncsu.edu Personal webpage: = http://www.cropsci.ncsu.edu/personnel/Schroeder_Michelle/Default.asp?fmti= nfo=3D1,450,150 = =20 Agroecology program: http://www.cropsci.ncsu.edu/agroecology/ = =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group on behalf of = Jarrod Gunn-Mcquillan Sent: Fri 3/17/2006 11:29 AM To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Entrez PubMed Soil Quality & phosphate = availability Does anyone know of any field studies using Mycorrhizae?? There seems = to be lots of greenhouse, microcosm etc. etc. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group [mailto:SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Dale Wilson Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:00 AM To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Entrez PubMed Soil Quality & phosphate availability Hi Edna, >> I'm afraid I'm over my head on this subject. I'm interested, >> but I understood maybe about half of what I read and my >> unabridged dictionary didn't help me a whole lot.... >> Can anyone tell me if that is the take home message in this >> research? Unlike nitrogen and potassium, phosphorus in the soil is tightly bound to the mineral fraction. As water moves from the soil into the roots, potassium and nitrogen and most other minerals are swept along into the plant along with the water (yeah, I know, this is an oversimplification), but not so with phosphorus. The roots have to go GET phosphorus by intimate contact with soil particles. Most plants simply cannot produce enough root surface area to get the phosphorus they need, even when there is plenty around. Almost all crops form a symbiotic relationship with a class of fungus called "arbuscular mycorrhizae fungi" (AMF). The AMF live in the soil and have an extensive network of fine mycelia. As a young plant is established, the root system becomes infected by the AMF which transports phosphorus into the roots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbuscular_mycorrhiza "Mycorrhizae helper bacteria" work with the AMF to help dissolve P from the surfaces of soil particles. The abstract cited by Lawrence studied an association between the AMF and the "growth-promoting rhizobacteria" Bacillus subtilis and Entrobacter. Here is the full text of the paper: http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/63/11/4408 Lawrence wrote: > I interpret this to mean that the researchers discovered that the > presence of a specific AM fungus innoculated with two phosphate- > solubilizing ("helper") bacteria in soils with low phosphate > bioavailability resulted in higher levels of plant available > phosphorus and "significantly increased biomass and N and P > accumulation in plant tissues". I don't think this is a new finding. The main point of the paper seems to be the use the isotopic dilution method as a tool. There is a lot of literature about this subject. > So, is anyone marketing a soil innoculant for organic and > sustainable farmers who periodically apply rock phosphate to > farmland with normally low P bioavailability (I assume this can > be detected in a soil test)? I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that inoculation with these organisms in normal field situations will be beneficial. I would try it out carefully in designed experiments and distrust promotional literature. AMF is normally present in most fields, and the bacteria mentioned are rugged and extremely common in soil. The paper does show why rock phosphate (RP) might be more available to plants than one would think from the soil chemistry per se. I still would make sure my RP is high-grade and finely ground. Dale __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to = the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to = the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: = http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the = SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. 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P+QEAAADABlAAAAAAAMAGkAAAAAAAwAdQAAAAAADAB5AAAAAAB4AMEABAAAACQAAAE1TU0NIUk9F AAAAAB4AMUABAAAACQAAAE1TU0NIUk9FAAAAAB4AMkABAAAAHAAAAFNBTkVULU1HQExJU1RTLklG QVMuVUZMLkVEVQAeADNAAQAAABsAAABqZ3Vubi1tY3F1aWxsYW5ATldIVS5PTi5DQQAAHgA4QAEA AAAJAAAATVNTQ0hST0UAAAAAHgA5QAEAAAACAAAALgAAAAMAdkD/////CwApAAAAAAALACMAAAAA AAMABhCPNL7wAwAHEN8TAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEVMTE9KQVJFRCxU SEVSRUFSRVFVSVRFQUZFV1NUVURJRVNET05FV0lUSEFSQlVTQ1VMQVJNWUNPUlJISVpBU0lOVEhF RklFTERUT0FERFRPSk9FTFNMSVNULElXT1VMREFMUwAAAAACAX8AAQAAAEEAAAA8MjkzRjQxQzkx RTIyQzA0RDk2RTg2MzY3NkQyMTkzNkI4RURCMkVAY3M1LmNyb3BzY2kuYWQubmNzdS5lZHU+AAAA ANgs ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64B71.BF6B8C29-- From - Mon Sep 11 15:02:13 2006 X-UIDL: 368718395 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AF6352BC00DA; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:03 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 1959EAE78; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7B2AE70 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B9BAE68 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00033909@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:47:38 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 864930 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:47:38 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.00033895@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:37:38 -0400 Received: from [71.35.53.12] (helo=[192.168.0.102]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GMqf3-0002Nu-UH for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:37:38 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060911101005.79673.qmail@web51905.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 8c6e4cabddc1f61885338a7d01cb3b6a7e972de0d01da940b71c4572e9d5023cde0561fb6ed9ef69350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.35.53.12 Message-ID: <4505ACF3.2050805@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:37:39 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: John Cowan Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Putting the carbon back: Black is the new green To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <20060911101005.79673.qmail@web51905.mail.yahoo.com> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368718395 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'johncowan@EARTHLINK.NET' (132 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 1.58883E-127; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 24296 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} I have been experimenting with "charcoal" this year after reading ALL the books about Terra Preta, reading ALL the information on at Eprida http://www.eprida.com/home/index.php4 plus other information on the web such as at Cornell. According the Eprida, the proper charcoal means heating suitable organic materials to about 400 degrees C. (750 degrees F.) without oxygen. Volatiles, hydrogen and water are outgassed. These gases can be used in a variety of ways. The charcoal is ground to 30-45 mesh. They also have developed a process to saturate it with ammonium bicarbonate using recycled gases. My focus has been on enhancing microbiological activity and nutrient holding capacity in the soil. If you add some charcoal to quality finished compost or worm castings you will get obvious enhances microbiological activity as seen by doing a simple water extraction after one day of culturing and looking at it under a microscope. Enhanced nutrient capacity occurs because the carbon matrix of the charcoal starts taking on "functional groups" and hence forms a type of humus that increases the CEC. Here is how I have produced the charcoal "fertilizer" in small quantities: Grind commercial "lump" barbecue charcoal (Cowboy, Royal Oak, etc.) to a fine powder. Do not use brickettes. I run it through an old meat grinder then put small amounts in an electric coffee mill. Mix charcoal powder with equal parts by volume fine sifted compost or worm castings. According to the charcoal weight, add 5% high quality fish meal, krill meal or other quality protein meal. Avoid solvent-extracted meals. Add sufficient water (non-chlorinated) usually about 1/2 the charcoal volume. Mix throughly. It should be wet, not mucky. Usually I work the mixture through a 1/4 inch hardware mesh to fluffy it up and cut up any lumps. Let sit in a plastic bucket for a week maybe with a loose cover in dry climates. Actineomyctes (sp?) smell will replace the protein smell in a few days and some white specks should develop. Small quantities of this product can show a noticeable improvement in plant appearance and growth/production. Apply to the soil surface and water in. I will not go into my exact experiences but I have been organic gardening for decades and have experience with a wide range of organic fertilizers and amendments. I have never seen anything quite like it. If you have questions about what I have mentioned I would invite you to reply to me personally or to the list. Thanks, John Cowan ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Mon Sep 11 15:02:13 2006 X-UIDL: 368718395 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AF6352BC00DA; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:03 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 1959EAE78; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7B2AE70 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B9BAE68 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00033909@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:47:38 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 864930 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:47:38 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.00033895@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:37:38 -0400 Received: from [71.35.53.12] (helo=[192.168.0.102]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GMqf3-0002Nu-UH for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:37:38 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060911101005.79673.qmail@web51905.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 8c6e4cabddc1f61885338a7d01cb3b6a7e972de0d01da940b71c4572e9d5023cde0561fb6ed9ef69350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.35.53.12 Message-ID: <4505ACF3.2050805@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:37:39 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: John Cowan Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Putting the carbon back: Black is the new green To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <20060911101005.79673.qmail@web51905.mail.yahoo.com> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368718395 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'johncowan@EARTHLINK.NET' (132 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 1.58883E-127; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 24296 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} I have been experimenting with "charcoal" this year after reading ALL the books about Terra Preta, reading ALL the information on at Eprida http://www.eprida.com/home/index.php4 plus other information on the web such as at Cornell. According the Eprida, the proper charcoal means heating suitable organic materials to about 400 degrees C. (750 degrees F.) without oxygen. Volatiles, hydrogen and water are outgassed. These gases can be used in a variety of ways. The charcoal is ground to 30-45 mesh. They also have developed a process to saturate it with ammonium bicarbonate using recycled gases. My focus has been on enhancing microbiological activity and nutrient holding capacity in the soil. If you add some charcoal to quality finished compost or worm castings you will get obvious enhances microbiological activity as seen by doing a simple water extraction after one day of culturing and looking at it under a microscope. Enhanced nutrient capacity occurs because the carbon matrix of the charcoal starts taking on "functional groups" and hence forms a type of humus that increases the CEC. Here is how I have produced the charcoal "fertilizer" in small quantities: Grind commercial "lump" barbecue charcoal (Cowboy, Royal Oak, etc.) to a fine powder. Do not use brickettes. I run it through an old meat grinder then put small amounts in an electric coffee mill. Mix charcoal powder with equal parts by volume fine sifted compost or worm castings. According to the charcoal weight, add 5% high quality fish meal, krill meal or other quality protein meal. Avoid solvent-extracted meals. Add sufficient water (non-chlorinated) usually about 1/2 the charcoal volume. Mix throughly. It should be wet, not mucky. Usually I work the mixture through a 1/4 inch hardware mesh to fluffy it up and cut up any lumps. Let sit in a plastic bucket for a week maybe with a loose cover in dry climates. Actineomyctes (sp?) smell will replace the protein smell in a few days and some white specks should develop. Small quantities of this product can show a noticeable improvement in plant appearance and growth/production. Apply to the soil surface and water in. I will not go into my exact experiences but I have been organic gardening for decades and have experience with a wide range of organic fertilizers and amendments. I have never seen anything quite like it. If you have questions about what I have mentioned I would invite you to reply to me personally or to the list. Thanks, John Cowan ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Wed Sep 13 19:05:21 2006 X-UIDL: 368719014 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AD56E3001C; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:34 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 7A609AC5D; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC89AAFF for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4522AC39 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.000343B1@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:20 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 887676 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:20 -0400 Received: from web51909.mail.yahoo.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0008B499@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:59:20 -0400 Received: (qmail 95922 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2006 22:59:19 -0000 Received: from [65.248.25.2] by web51909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:59:19 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20060913225919.95920.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:59:19 -0700 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Dale Wilson Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Putting the carbon back: Black is the new green To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <52c.8df22f8.3239cda4@aol.com> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368719014 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'nosliwelad@YAHOO.COM' (132 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 7.27646E-137; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 24915 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Elaine, > Charcoal addition, WITHOUT ANY organisms, nutrient, or water > addition with it, was what was being discussed. If you wish to > add in other factors, along with the charcoal, then the > discussion will be very different. Part of the discussion is the indeterminacy of the term "charcoal." This subject is already "very different" because things other than pure thermogenic carbon are present in "char." > If you want to add all the other things besides charcoal that > are in Terra Preta, i.e., if you want to add bacteria, fungi, > protozoa, nematodes, microarthropods, humus, fulvics, proteins, > sugars. etc then we aren't talking about just charcoal anymore. That is part of the point of this discussion. The "char" being discussed is a complex material. > How long has it been since "black earth" was anaerobic? It > does not has a sickening, stinky smell to it as it has been > described to me. It is not low in oxygen. It is not hot. > Terra Preta is not charcoal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta "Because of their elevated charcoal content, it is now widely accepted that these soils are a product of indigenous soil management involving a labor intensive technique termed slash-and-char. The technique is differentiated from slash and burn by a lower temperature burn and in being a tool for soil improvement. Amending soil with low temperature charcoal produced from a mix of wood and leafy biomass (termed bio-char) has been observed to increase the activity of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi." > Recalcitrance of any organic matter is relative, and I'll agree > with Lutzow et all absolutely on that statement. If you have no > fungi in the "mix", the wider C:N materials are going to have a > hard time breaking down. If the fungi that can use that wide > C:N material are present, those "recalcitrant" materials can > disappear pretty quickly. The other part of this discussion, is the possibility that by thermally processing organic matter in the right way, it might be possible to very greatly increase the recalcitrance of the organic matter, while retaining soil-building value (beyond the value of ordinary charcoal). This seems to be what happened to these Terra Preta soils. Thermal processing might be a valuable way to make microbiologically stable OM amendments. > If organic matter has been sterilized, or does not contain the > organisms capable of breaking down the bonds in the material, > then that material will appear "recalcitrant". We are not talking about sterile systems. Sure, the biomass being thermally processed would be rendered sterile, but after you put it in the soil it will be colonized by the native flora and fauna. > Restrict the information being considered to just what I was > talking about, and do NOT add in all sorts of other things. > Please don't muddy the conversation that was being held. Elaine, it it too late! This was a murky, confusing, impure thread from it's inception. I would urge you to keep an open mind. I don't think this is mainly about "charcoal" in the usual sense of the word. Dale __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Wed Sep 13 20:55:00 2006 X-UIDL: 368719038 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A66B8EE0016; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:35 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 54B5CAEA4; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3993FAD9C for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7478DAD4F for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.0003445E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:12 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 888246 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:12 -0400 Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.00034575@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:12 -0400 Received: from Soilfoodweb@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id d.556.6d93238 (29672) for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:07 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1158194766" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 Message-ID: <556.6d93238.323a004e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:46:06 EDT Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Elaine Ingham Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Putting the carbon back: Black is the new green To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368719038 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'Soilfoodweb@AOL.COM' (132 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 0; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 24939 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} -------------------------------1158194766 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps there was a thread was about Terre Pieta, but my specific comment was about charcoal. I believe I clearly indicated my response as being about charcoal. Charcoal by definition is wood held at high temperature (175 to 180 C) with low oxygen (doesn't burn but essentially crystallizes). This can be done mechanically, or can be done by biology. If someone wants to develop a new term, for example "char", then a clear definition is required. Conditions for production of that material need to be defined. When people compost using woody materials, such as oak, pine, cedar, eucalyptus, or other wide C:N bark, heartwood or sapwood, with other materials (green plant material and high N containing material) on which the bacteria and fungi grow rapidly, use up oxygen, and generate high heat (above 170 C), then conditions are correct to produce charcoal. Compost is NOT sterile at 175 C. Just because none of the organisms growing at those temperatures will grow on any lab culture plate, does not mean those organisms do not exist. But many conventional microbiology-based people make that mistake. There are a huge number of species and high numbers of individuals at high temperatures. Take a look at deep sea vents. Check out the number of species in a ml of seawater, regardless of whether that water is from deep ocean vents or from near-shore, or mid-depth. The reason that compost piles heat is through the heat released at the organisms grow. No organisms, no heat in a compost pile. If you have heat, you have growing organisms. In Terre Pieta, there are a huge number of organisms. Which is more likely to be more important to the production of the fertility of this soil? Charcoal, the charred organic matter, or the organisms? ---------- If you have a material that is compacted, it often lacks oxygen. Mycorrhizal fungi are strict aerobes, and cannot grow when oxygen is lacking. If material that structurally helps oxygen move more easily into the material is added, the mycorrhizal fungi will be seen to grow more readily as the conditions restricting their growth are alleviated. Did the structural material supply carbon? mineral nutrients? or allow oxygen to move into the material? What is the real explanation for the benefit of charcoal for mycorrhizal growth? Elaine Ingham In a message dated 9/13/2006 3:59:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nosliwelad@YAHOO.COM writes: Elaine, > Charcoal addition, WITHOUT ANY organisms, nutrient, or water > addition with it, was what was being discussed. If you wish to > add in other factors, along with the charcoal, then the > discussion will be very different. Part of the discussion is the indeterminacy of the term "charcoal." This subject is already "very different" because things other than pure thermogenic carbon are present in "char." > If you want to add all the other things besides charcoal that > are in Terra Preta, i.e., if you want to add bacteria, fungi, > protozoa, nematodes, microarthropods, humus, fulvics, proteins, > sugars. etc then we aren't talking about just charcoal anymore. That is part of the point of this discussion. The "char" being discussed is a complex material. > How long has it been since "black earth" was anaerobic? It > does not has a sickening, stinky smell to it as it has been > described to me. It is not low in oxygen. It is not hot. > Terra Preta is not charcoal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta "Because of their elevated charcoal content, it is now widely accepted that these soils are a product of indigenous soil management involving a labor intensive technique termed slash-and-char. The technique is differentiated from slash and burn by a lower temperature burn and in being a tool for soil improvement. Amending soil with low temperature charcoal produced from a mix of wood and leafy biomass (termed bio-char) has been observed to increase the activity of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi." > Recalcitrance of any organic matter is relative, and I'll agree > with Lutzow et all absolutely on that statement. If you have no > fungi in the "mix", the wider C:N materials are going to have a > hard time breaking down. If the fungi that can use that wide > C:N material are present, those "recalcitrant" materials can > disappear pretty quickly. The other part of this discussion, is the possibility that by thermally processing organic matter in the right way, it might be possible to very greatly increase the recalcitrance of the organic matter, while retaining soil-building value (beyond the value of ordinary charcoal). This seems to be what happened to these Terra Preta soils. Thermal processing might be a valuable way to make microbiologically stable OM amendments. > If organic matter has been sterilized, or does not contain the > organisms capable of breaking down the bonds in the material, > then that material will appear "recalcitrant". We are not talking about sterile systems. Sure, the biomass being thermally processed would be rendered sterile, but after you put it in the soil it will be colonized by the native flora and fauna. > Restrict the information being considered to just what I was > talking about, and do NOT add in all sorts of other things. > Please don't muddy the conversation that was being held. Elaine, it it too late! This was a murky, confusing, impure thread from it's inception. I would urge you to keep an open mind. I don't think this is mainly about "charcoal" in the usual sense of the word. Dale Elaine R. Ingham Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon Soil Foodweb Inc., Port Jefferson, New York Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia Soil Foodweb Institute Cambridge, New Zealand Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan, Mexico Soil Foodweb South Africa, Polokwane, SA Soil Foodweb Canada, Vulcan, Alberta, Canada Soil Foodweb United Kingdom, Laverstoke Park, UK Coming soon -a second lab in Canada, one in Kenya, and in Japan! ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. -------------------------------1158194766 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Perhaps there was a thread was about Terre Pieta, but my specific comme= nt=20 was about charcoal.  I believe I clearly indicated my response as being= =20 about charcoal. 
 
Charcoal by definition is wood held at high temperature (175 to 18= 0=20 C) with low oxygen (doesn't burn but essentially crystallizes).  T= his=20 can be done mechanically, or can be done by biology. 
 
If someone wants to develop a new term, for example "char", then a clea= r=20 definition is required.  Conditions for production of that material nee= d to=20 be defined.  
 
When people compost using woody materials, such as oak, pine, cedar,=20 eucalyptus, or other wide C:N bark, heartwood or sapwood, with other materia= ls=20 (green plant material and high N containing material) on which the bacteria=20= and=20 fungi grow rapidly, use up oxygen, and generate high heat (above 170 C), the= n=20 conditions are correct to produce charcoal. 
 
Compost is NOT sterile at 175 C.  Just because none of t= he=20 organisms growing at those temperatures will grow on any lab culture plate,=20= does=20 not mean those organisms do not exist. 
 
But many conventional microbiology-based people make that=20 mistake.  There are a huge number of species and high numbers of=20 individuals at high temperatures.  Take a look at deep sea vents. = =20 Check out the number of species in a ml of seawater, regardless of whether t= hat=20 water is from deep ocean vents or from near-shore, or mid-depth. 
 
The reason that compost piles heat is through the heat released at= the=20 organisms grow.  No organisms, no heat in a compost pile.  If= you=20 have heat, you have growing organisms. 
 
In Terre Pieta, there are a huge number of organisms.  Which is mo= re=20 likely to be more important to the production of the fertility of this=20 soil?  Charcoal, the charred organic matter, or the organisms?
 
----------
 
If you have a material that is compacted, it often lacks=20 oxygen.  Mycorrhizal fungi are strict aerobes, and cannot grow=20 when oxygen is lacking.  If material that structurally helps=20 oxygen move more easily into the material is added, the mycorrhizal fungi wi= ll=20 be seen to grow more readily as the conditions restricting their growth are=20 alleviated. 
 
Did the structural material supply carbon?  mineral=20 nutrients?  or allow oxygen to move into the material? 
 
What is the real explanation for the benefit of charcoal for mycorrhiza= l=20 growth?
 
Elaine Ingham
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/13/2006 3:59:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,=20 nosliwelad@YAHOO.COM writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>Elaine,

> Charcoal addition, WITHOUT ANY organisms, nut= rient,=20 or water
> addition with it, was what was being discussed.  If=20= you=20 wish to
> add in other factors, along with the charcoal,  then=20= the=20
> discussion will be very different.

Part of the discussion=20= is=20 the indeterminacy of the term "charcoal."
This subject is already "ver= y=20 different" because things other than pure
thermogenic carbon are presen= t in=20 "char."

> If you want to add all the other things besides charco= al=20 that
> are in Terra Preta, i.e., if you want to add bacteria,=20 fungi,
> protozoa, nematodes, microarthropods, humus, fulvics,=20 proteins,
> sugars. etc then we aren't talking  about just char= coal=20 anymore.

That is part of the point of this discussion.  The "c= har"=20 being
discussed is a complex material.
 
> How long has=20= it=20 been since "black earth" was anaerobic?  It
> does not has a=20 sickening, stinky smell to it as it has been
> described to me. = ; It=20 is not low in oxygen.  It is not hot.
> Terra Preta is not=20 charcoal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
"Because of t= heir=20 elevated charcoal content, it is now widely accepted
that these soils a= re a=20 product of indigenous soil management involving
a labor intensive techn= ique=20 termed slash-and-char. The technique is
differentiated from slash and b= urn=20 by a lower temperature burn and in
being a tool for soil improvement.=20 Amending soil with low temperature
charcoal produced from a mix of wood= and=20 leafy biomass (termed
bio-char) has been observed to increase the activ= ity=20 of arbuscular
mycorrhizal fungi."

> Recalcitrance of any orga= nic=20 matter is relative, and I'll agree
> with Lutzow et all absolutely o= n=20 that statement.  If you have no
> fungi in the "mix", the wider= C:N=20 materials are going to have a
> hard time breaking down.  If th= e=20 fungi that can use that wide
> C:N material are present, those=20 "recalcitrant" materials can
> disappear pretty quickly.

The=20 other part of this discussion, is the possibility that by=20 thermally
processing organic matter in the right way, it might be possi= ble=20 to
very greatly increase the recalcitrance of the organic matter,=20 while
retaining soil-building value (beyond the value of ordinary=20 charcoal).
This seems to be what happened to these Terra Preta=20 soils.  Thermal
processing might be a valuable way to make=20 microbiologically stable OM
amendments.
 
> If organic=20 matter has been sterilized, or does not contain the
> organisms capa= ble=20 of breaking down the bonds in the material,
> then that material wil= l=20 appear "recalcitrant".

We are not talking about sterile systems.&nb= sp;=20 Sure, the biomass being
thermally processed would be rendered sterile,=20= but=20 after you put it in
the soil it will be colonized by the native flora a= nd=20 fauna.
 
> Restrict the information being considered to jus= t=20 what I was
> talking about, and do NOT add in all sorts of other=20 things.
> Please don't muddy the conversation that was being=20 held.

Elaine, it it too late!  This was a murky, confusing, im= pure=20 thread
from it's inception.  I would urge you to keep an open=20 mind.  I don't
think this is mainly about "charcoal" in the usual=20 sense of the word.

Dale
 
Elaine R.=20 Ingham
Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon
Soil Foodweb Inc., Port=20 Jefferson, New York
Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia
Soil Foo= dweb=20 Institute Cambridge, New Zealand
Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan,=20 Mexico
Soil Foodweb South Africa, Polokwane, SA
Soil Foodweb Canada,=20 Vulcan, Alberta, Canada
Soil Foodweb United Kingdom, Laverstoke Park,=20 UK
Coming soon -a second lab in Canada, one in Kenya, and in=20 Japan!

&NBSP;

*****************************************************

To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:

1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or;

2- Send a message to mailto:listserv@sare.org from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message.

&NBSP;

Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.

&NBSP;

-------------------------------1158194766-- From - Thu Oct 05 08:03:42 2006 X-UIDL: 368725217 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A31FE5D00D6; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:57:19 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 1C486A9C1; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED17AA2E for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC9DAF65 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00093C6E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 7:56:57 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 1080578 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:56:57 -0400 Received: from chert.unet.maine.edu by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.0003CB0E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 7:56:57 -0400 Received: from chert.unet.maine.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chert.unet.maine.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k95Burgx023323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:56:53 -0400 Received: (from apache@localhost) by chert.unet.maine.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id k95BuqvW023308 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:56:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: chert.unet.maine.edu: apache set sender to ann-marie.fortuna@maine.edu using -f Received: from 72.65.108.169 (pool-72-65-108-169.ptldme.east.verizon.net [72.65.108.169]) by mail1.maine.edu (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:56:52 +0000 References: <20061004170723.72301.qmail@web39711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00f601c6e7e6$b8437200$6501a8c0@industrixv3dos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: ann-marie.fortuna@maine.edu Message-ID: <20061005115652.322m861dkcoko8cw@mail1.maine.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:56:52 +0000 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Ann-Marie Fortuna Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Testing a product that reduces irrigation requirements To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <00f601c6e7e6$b8437200$6501a8c0@industrixv3dos> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368725217 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'ann-marie.fortuna@MAINE.EDU' (172 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 1.01805E-149; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 30273 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Dear Nicola, I would mot be able to test your product but would like to know what =20 is in it. Actinomycetes? Thanks, Ann-Marie Quoting Frank Schultz : > Dear Nicola, > > Yes, I would be interested. Farm about 15 acres and pasture about =20 > eight acres. Am converting to organic. > > Am located in Red Oak (Ellis County), Texas. Received less than 19" =20 > rain last year and less than 17" rain this year. > > Is this the sort of situation you have in mind? > > Frank Schultz > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nicola Kinsella Melvin > To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:07 PM > Subject: [SANET-MG] Testing a product that reduces irrigation requiremen= ts > > > Hello, > I'm in the process of organizing tests of an organic product, =20 > developed in Norway, designed to reduce the irrigation required to =20 > grow crops by about 50%. The tests I'm organizing are going to be =20 > conducted in Australia next growing season (planting will be =20 > August-September 2007). > > I don't work for the company that has developed it, I'm just =20 > curious about bringing the technology into Australia (assuming it =20 > works as well there as it has in their African tests) due to the =20 > constant water shortages there. > > A company representative is going to be the US in late =20 > October/early November, and I know they are looking to conduct tests =20 > here, and I was wondering if there was anyone on the list from some =20 > of the drier states (CA, TX, ???) who would be interested in (and =20 > set up to conduct) testing. The product has to be applied in liquid =20 > form, so someone who is used to applying liquid based fertilizers =20 > would probably be preferable. > > If so, please let me know. > > Regards, > Nicola > > &NBSP; > > ***************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html and =20 > unsubscribe by typing in your e-mail address or; > > 2- Send a message to mailto:listserv@sare.org from the address =20 > subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of =20 > the message. > > &NBSP; > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: =20 > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > > &NBSP; > > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed =20 > to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.ht= ml. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through =20 > the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. > ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Thu Oct 19 11:23:04 2006 X-UIDL: 368728903 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A2E41ACF0090; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:48 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id E0B46B141; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FCAB144 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from metalab.unc.edu (mail.metalab.unc.edu [152.46.7.112]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CBDB0FD for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from malecky (unknown [152.46.7.119]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CC848C3C; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.71]) by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013D34C00D for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup-4.252.98.219.dial1.cincinnati1.level3.net ([4.252.98.219]) by pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GaZN2-0005H6-00; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:45 -0400 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.408 [268.13.5/483]); Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:46 -0400 Message-ID: <453792E1.1080102@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:59:45 -0400 From: Keith Johnson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) To: Permaculture ibiblio , openpermaculture , BPG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [permaculture] Propagating Effective Microorganisms (bokashi) X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: permaculture List-Id: permaculture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Errors-To: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net X-Declude-Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [152.46.7.112] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368728903 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'keithdj@mindspring.com' on the allowed list (184 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 33763 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} http://www.cityfarmer.org/bokashi.html As kind of an addendum to our article on making your own mycorrhizal tree inoculum in the last issue of the Activist, is this story about propagating EM. Keith -- Keith Johnson Permaculture Activist Magazine PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408 (812) 335-0383 http://www.permacultureactivist.net also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting also Association for Regenerative Culture also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a small world after oil. http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington also Bloomington Permaculture Guild -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/483 - Release Date: 10/18/2006 _______________________________________________ permaculture mailing list permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture From - Sun Jul 08 04:41:46 2007 X-UIDL: 368794702 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A34564F3001E; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:16:53 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id F1AB8266976; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EA7266972 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:15:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF3C266925 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.001220A7@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 1:14:43 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7249387 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:14:42 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00122007@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 1:14:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 2419 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 05:14:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.151]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jul 2007 05:14:41 -0000 Received: from shield.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l685Ef939954 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l685EfS39948 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <46860F6C.4050305@intrex.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 08072007 #337315, status: clean Message-ID: <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:21 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 8. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794702 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 92846 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} >> ... mixing compost with rock dust will help prevent leaching of >> the nutrients in the compost. Micronutrients in the dust will >> nourish the bacteria and fungi in the compost creating new >> nutrient cycling, tieing up some NPK in the compost by those >> microorganisms which then release them to your trees while >> significantly enriching your soil mix with substances (chitin) >> that contribute to tilth and water and nutrient holding capacity. >> That alone should increase total nutrient availability to your >> trees. I would use 50/50 rockdust/compost... >> Have you considered applying enhanced compost tea? ... > I prefer the addition of a generous amount of compost each year, > as I am primarily interested in the constant build-up of organic > and humic matter at the base of the trees, and its interaction > with the soil. The primary function of compost tea is not to enhance the soil's fertility but rather, to increase the presence, activity and diversity of soil microorganisms that generate growth stimulating phyto-hormones and substances with antibiotic activity against pathogens. IOW: Although soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, compost tea is used as a means to provide resistance to pests and disease to a greater extent than compost, since it adheres to the plant's foliage - something compost doesn't do. One is mainly directed toward soil improvement, the other toward crop protection. ... > I live in Israel, ... It would probably be cheaper for you to get > your Barhis from the west coast (they grow them there, right?). Not on the coast, in the desert - the Imperial and Cochella Valleys, and the Sonora Desert. > Anyhow, if anyone on the list is interested in this kind of > bartering, we grow medjool, deglet-noor, barhi and zahidi > varieties. What's your soil like? Zahidi's tend to do better than Deglet's in heavier soils, while Deglet's do better in powdery ones. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 15:17:26 2007 X-UIDL: 368794902 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE1CF58E006E; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:34:04 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id A4A5A266AE2; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8369D266767 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:32:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA70266B90 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00179729@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 14:31:49 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7265789 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:31:49 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.00122827@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 14:31:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 25543 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 18:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jul 2007 18:31:48 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68IVm396706 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68IVlE96698 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:47 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <46860F6C.4050305@intrex.net> <1319826152.20070708001421@gmx.net> <000e01c7c179$7008b190$6401a8c0@SALS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 08072007 #337462, status: clean Message-ID: <1652013513.20070708133127@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:27 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?) To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000e01c7c179$7008b190$6401a8c0@SALS> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 8. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794902 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93046 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} > couldn't u add a good compost tea to the compost and get the best > of both worlds? One goes into the soil, the other coats the plant. > this may also give the life in the tea something to eat while > waiting for something to grow. Life needs life and putting out > compost tea with a food supply sound like a good idea to me to me > unless there is lots of food for that life growing now. The tea concentrates the quantity and extends the application of the microorganisms responsible for the biological foundations of agriculture - in itself, an organism based activity. The products discussed are simply two different applications of that. So while I agree that both applications are complementary, what you suggest prevents one of them from fulfilling it's function. As Elaine has often said, much remains to be learned about the multiple benefits provided by soil microorganisms. Nine years ago I purchased a copy of "Investigaciones Hoy", a magazine published by Mexico's Instituto Politecnico Nacional (IPN), which contained an article describing seven fungi and six bacteria that produce Auxins, Giberelines, Cytokinins, Abscisic Acid and Ethylenes (all of which are considered phyto-hormones, as well as the actions of each on plants. (I am translating from the Spanish forms of these words so some may be misspelled in English). That same year I searched through bio-medical databases for additional information on some of these organisms and was pleased to confirm that substances with antibiotic activity against pathogens are also produced (not surprising, considering that antibiotics were developed from soil microorganisms), by at least some of those organisms mentioned in the IPN article. So if you want to inoculate a plants roots against pathogens that attack those roots, adding compost tea containing the appropriate beneficial microorganisms to the soil around those roots might be wise. But that would be less helpful if you're trying to prevent the infestation or infection of other tissues. > Like at my place there is lots for the life in the compost tea to > feast on but maybe some places might benefit with the tea and its > food put out at the same time. just a thought Don't stop thinking. (I know you won't). As I understand it, compost tea rapidly concentrates and permits the application of the same microorganisms found in the compost you make it from to the rest of the plant. In order to determine your best course of action, you need to know what you should be guarding against. If your present regimen has been sufficient with respect to disease prevention, maybe you don't need to apply compost tea. Elaine promotes the need for performing a kind of soil analysis that's not readily available. She's doing that in her Oregon lab (north of your location), but whether you want or need to go that route is another matter. It *would* tell you what you have in your soil, microbiologically speaking. In addition to knowing what your potential pathogens are and which tissues they attack, knowing which microorganisms are likely to be effective against them and how to make sure they are present in your soil and on your plant -if that's where you need them- would be helpful. Is this kind of information even available? Maybe some of sanet's academics can answer that. As things stand, a generalized belief in the power of the diversity, presence and activity of the kind of microorganisms you obtain by brewing aerobic compost tea to stimulate growth and prevent disease is probably driving most of those using it. The question is: Is that enough? Or should we know more? If so: Why is so much funding channeled toward a research agenda that focuses on reinventing (subverting, actually) an evolutionary path that took millions of years to create? Why are aren't the issues mentioned above being addressed instead? Are we going to study, understand and work *with* natural biological systems or continue to labor in bad faith - against the systems that gave rise to ourselves and life on earth as we know it? Or is that message too hard to package and sell? -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Mon Jul 09 13:14:11 2007 X-UIDL: 368795232 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AA96B5EC0068; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:47:50 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 51C9B266E48; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBB2266CE7 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:45:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16697266CF8 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.001232DB@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:40:49 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7294318 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:40:49 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.0008851E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:40:49 -0400 Received: (qmail 23186 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 14:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Jul 2007 14:40:48 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l69Eelk96112 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:40:47 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l69EelE96102 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:40:47 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <1987856689.20070709065625@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 09072007 #337849, status: clean Message-ID: <866998860.20070709094027@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:40:27 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: [SANET-MG] Measurments (Was: brix) To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <1987856689.20070709065625@gmx.net> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 2. SPAMHEADERS X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795232 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93375 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} As I understand the issue: What basic model should guide us when analyzing Soil, Plants and/or Fruit? Productivity, Health, Quality, Content and Performance are factors that all come into play at the plant, crop, farmer and consumer levels. The soil is an environment that (like all environments), sustains living organisms of a given type and depends on a number of biological processes; and the same can be said about the conditions present above ground. The right combination of questions and answers can help lead a farmer to sustainability; the wrong combination is inconclusive. Determining which factors are significant depends on one's goals, and those will vary. For instance: Potassium is a key determinant for brix production in pineapple, a crop which requires a minimum brix level in order to maintain it's quality. However, brix is not a positive goal in avocados, oil content is; and avocado oil content depends on the variety and the rate of growth, which is affected by temperature. I can't compare the importance and effects of K metabolism in pineapple and avocados at the moment. The point is: THE FOCUS AND IMPORTANCE OF OBTAINABLE ANALYTICAL DATA IS CROP DEPENDENT: What you need in the soil depends on the needs of the plant - and the truth of that goes beyond the nutritional needs of the each crop. We have already mentioned the importance of knowing which pests and diseases are likely to appear in particular crops in your area during the growing season in which you intend to cultivate your crops. We have also mentioned the importance of maintaining a soil environment containing a healthy balance of beneficial soil microorganisms, as a means of protecting against soil pathogens. (Is anyone here testing for that)? So rather than supply an all encompassing answer, I am pointing to a good place to start. Are databases containing this kind of information* readily available? * The nutritional needs of specific crops under defined climatic conditions; Biological and mineral sources of specific plant nutrients; The metabological role played by each nutrient in each plant, The pests and diseases common to specific crops; The substances produced by each soil microorganism and the activity of each; The set of conditions required for the optimum production of each substance; The target pest of each predator, parasite and pathogen and the sources of same; etc. Without that type of information, what are you analyzing for and what good will the results of your analysis give you? Am I the only one here that believes this is important)? > Conclusions > Results compiled during this rigorous two-year empirical study of > eight San Joaquin Valley vineyards (including five organic > operations) provide no consistent support for the alleged > predictive Brix / leafhopper relationship as it has been widely > promoted in recent years. ... > "Plants with high (a Brix reading above 12) sugar content also > have good 'immune systems."' ... Less than 12 Brix is inadequate for pineapple and the varieties that currently dominate the U.S. market require much more. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 20:22:41 2007 X-UIDL: 368794986 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ADAE657D0064; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:05:18 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 259932668ED; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB97C2668DA for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6788C2668A0 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0017992E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 19:03:10 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7270963 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:03:10 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.00122935@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 19:03:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 29035 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 23:03:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.151]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jul 2007 23:03:09 -0000 Received: from shield.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68N39e32005 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:03:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l68N38S31998 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:03:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 09072007 #337542, status: clean Message-ID: <1054797779.20070708180248@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:02:48 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368794986 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93130 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} John D'hondt wrote: > so far my own spuds, mixture of many varieties, are healthy enough > where it seems that many professional growers in Ireland are > plowing their blighted crops under at this moment in one of the > most blight prone years seen for a long time. Seems that gallons > of Dithane did not save them. This is what the dowagro.com website says about it's specialty fungicide dithane: Attention: This product contains mancozeb and ETU, chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer. ETU is also known to the state of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm. Non-selective, cancer causing fungicides are not the answer. The future of agriculture requires a different mentality. Where fungal blight is a problem, try inoculating seed potatoes with Pitholithus Tintorius, a beneficial fungus known to promote plant growth and produce substances with antibiotic activity against pathological fungi. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Sun Jul 08 20:42:33 2007 X-UIDL: 368795004 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A4334390092; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:41:23 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id AA7B5266850; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7732669A8 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A522667EB for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.001229C1@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 20:39:08 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7273215 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:39:08 -0400 Received: from qmail.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00122921@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; 8 Jul 2007 20:39:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 11581 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 00:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Jul 2007 00:39:07 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l690d7591642 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:39:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l690cqE91216; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:38:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 09072007 #337542, status: clean Message-ID: <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:38:31 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: cc: Jean_Ristaino@ncsu.edu, rbuell@tigr.org, legomez@unity.ncsu.edu, souyang@tigr.org To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795004 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93148 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Katherine Marsh wrote from Ireland: > Sarpo Axona has just started to go down with blight here in north > Dublin, Sarpo Mira is still clear, as is Symfonia. Lady Eve > Balfour survived to this week but showed the first signs of blight > three days ago. I've taken the individual damaged leaves off and I > think it will keep growing and make a worthwhile crop. Across the > road sixty acres of Rooster which have been sprayed with Dithane > at many times the legal limit are being ploughed in today. Does history have to repeat itself? Phytophthora attacks the roots of the pineapple plant and substances produced by the beneficial fungus Pisolithus Tinctorius are specifically active against it. This is good re Phytophthora infestans: (My comments are interspaced 2 spaces to the left) Late blight caused by Phytophthora infestans is a devastating disease of potato and tomato in the U.S. and worldwide. Epidemics due to P. infestans in 1845 led to the Irish potato famine and the mass migration and death of millions of people in Ireland. Late blight is now considered a re-emerging disease and has reached epidemic proportions in North America and Europe due to the development of resistance to the fungicide metalaxyl in populations of the pathogen and the widespread occurrence of new genotypes. Fungicides can't change their actions but beneficial organisms can continue to adapt to any changes the pathogen develops. The pathogen causes a destructive foliar blight and also infects potato tubers and tomato fruit under cool, moist conditions. That's where a compost tea containing P. Tintorius would fit in. ... P. infestans was ranked number two by the American Phytopathological Society on the list of plant pathogen species targeted for DNA sequencing and whole genome sequencing is now underway at the Whitehead Institute at MIT. There is a large database of genetic information available on P. infestans including a genetic linkage map and expressed sequence tag (EST) libraries and genetic systems are tractable. They are attempting to study this pathogen in a vacuum. Studying it's interactions with other organisms would be much more useful. In addition, the Phytophthora research community holds regular meetings and exchanges information freely and has formed the Phytophthora Molecular Genetic Network whose goal is to facilitate the exchange of information and resources related to Phytophthora molecular genetics. Are they looking for the factors that make it a pathogen? ... One tool that would be of use to scientists and growers would be the ability to rapidly genotype isolates of the pathogen. Haplotypes could be correlated with virulence They are. and resistance to pesticides But why limit remediation to chemical solutions that ignore the causative factors and fail to deal with them? Instead of modifying the environment in positive ways, this approach worsens environmental quality and weakens it's equilibrium, diminishing the presence, activity and diversity of the soil microorganisms responsible for soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, as well as growth-stimulating phyto-hormones and substances with anti-biotic activity against pathogens. and used in epidemiological studies In addition, whole mitochondrial genome sequence analysis will be useful in studies to examine molecular evolution in the pathogen. It would be more useful if it's interactions with other species were taken into account, also. ... Project Members # Jean Beagle Ristaino, Professor, Plant Pathology, N. C. State Univ., Jean_Ristaino@ncsu.edu # C. Robin Buell, Associate Investigator, The Institute for Genomic Research, rbuell@tigr.org # Luis Alpizar Gomez, Graduate assistant, NCSU, legomez@unity.ncsu.edu # Shu Ouyang, Bioinformatics Analyst, TIGR, souyang@tigr.org I am sending a copy of this to each of them. -- Douglas Hinds Coordinador Nacional de Producción Organica Confederacion Nacional de Propietarios Rurales Chair, Organic Pineapple Working Group International Society for Horticultural Science http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/opwg Dir. Gral. Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 01:32:10 2007 X-UIDL: 368795507 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE2CC9F20068; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:42:20 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 660A4266A59; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A01266A58 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D9D266A56 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00123A29@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 0:40:04 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7318957 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:40:04 -0400 Received: from qmail4.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.00088E5E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 0:40:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 19752 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 04:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Jul 2007 04:40:01 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6A4e1G25931 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:40:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6A4e0E25895; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:40:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 10072007 #338077, status: clean Message-ID: <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:39:40 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes Comments: To: Jean Ristaino To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795507 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93650 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Jean Ristaino wrote: > I am reading your comments and am wondering where you are going > with this. Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this computer). > Who is Katherine Marsh? Both Katherine Marsh and I have subscribed to the Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group (SANET) for many years. SANET is funded by SARE and has about 1000 subscribers, including many academics. Dr. Joel Gruver (who was at NCSU if I recall), also subscribes, for instance. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. I don't remember exactly what Katherine does, but both she and John D hondt (also in Ireland) mentioned that potato blight has been particularly destructive there this year, particularly to those fields cultivated relying on chemical inputs rather than biological processes. > Who are you and what are your interests in the disease? I am Coordinador Nacional de Producción Organica Confederacion Nacional de Propietarios Rurales I also Chair the Organic Pineapple Working Group of the International Society for Horticultural Science http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/opwg and am Director General of the Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. located in Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico My interest in Phytophthora stems from the fact that it attacks the roots of the pineapple plant. Although the INIFAP (Instituto Nacional de Investigaciones Forestales y Agropecuarios - the research arm of Mexico's Agriculture Secretariat), recommends dipping the roots of pineapple transplants in fungicide, inoculating their roots with Pisolithus Tintorius would be a more selective and therefore more appropriate solution, as well as one that is less likely to create resistance. > I wrote a proposal a few years back to look at alternatives to > pesticides for late blight control and was not funded. I have > interests in this area - but no funding yet. Your proposal sounds good to me - I hope the sources you solicited funds from realize soon that your proposal was sound and merits their support. Be sure and check out the SARE site for additional sources of funding. Thank you for your response. Douglas Hinds --------- ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 12:34:06 2007 X-UIDL: 368795736 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id A05BD9BC005C; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:19 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id CE5E72667C9; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6FC2667B1 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (lists.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7560266CFE for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <5.001241D4@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:05:40 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7336616 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:05:36 -0400 Received: from uwo.ca (v320-147-lb.its.uwo.ca) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <6.001242CA@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:05:36 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Received: from zeppo.mail.uwo.pri (salk.mail.uwo.pri [172.29.32.41]) by zeppo.mail.uwo.pri (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-1.04 (built May 9 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0JKZ001MZ0O4XD70@zeppo.mail.uwo.pri> for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.2.10] ([65.95.133.105]) by zeppo.mail.uwo.pri (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-1.04 (built May 9 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0JKZ003YD0O4K140@zeppo.mail.uwo.pri> for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:04:52 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> Message-ID: <4693AE1C.1030302@uwo.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:04:44 -0400 Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: jcummins Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] [Spam?] Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-SpamTest-AGR: Flagged AGR Test X-SpamTest-DEF: Flagged DEF Test X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 9. COUNTRIES, SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10, SUBJSPACES-15, WEIGHT5, WEIGHT9 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795736 X-NAS-BWL: No match found for 'jcummins@UWO.CA' (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Language: English X-NAS-Bayes: #0: 2.51877E-236; #1: 1 X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 93879 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} Hi Sals and others interested in Pisolithus Tinctorius.The comments on the fungus for Phytopthora control were very interesting. I found that fungus is an Ectomycorrhizal Fungus, one that inhabits the roots of plants as a symbiont. The fruiting structure of the fungus has given the fungus the name "dog turd" because of its appearance not smell. A good deal of work is published on controlling Phytopthora in Eucalyptus but not much on potato. I am not sure why the potato is underrepresented in use of Pisolithus Tinctorius, potato. Of course finding the fruiting bodies of the fungus on the store produce display might be one reason the fungus is shunned but another reason may be the fact that the fungus is very allergenic. I have enclosed a couple of abstracts below. Sincerely, joe cummins http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html Tom Volk's Fungus of the Month for June 2003 This month's fungus is Pisolithus tinctorius, the "dog turd" fungus, also known in more polite company as the dyemaker's puffball. This fungus is not growing directly on the feces, but is mycorrhizal with the roots of nearby trees. i.e. it forms a mutualistic association with the roots of trees. I am guessing there are oaks or conifers like pine or spruce nearby. I am guessing that the wolf feces are providing some extra nutrients to the fungus and allowing it to fruit in that area. The added water from the runoff is also making the fungus fruit in that area. Rev Inst Med Trop Sao Paulo. 1997 Sep-Oct;39(5):245-52.Links Evaluation of the allergenicity of spore and mycelia extracts of Pisolithus tinctorius. Chavasco JK, Gambale W, de Siqueira AM, Fiorini JE, Portocarrero MC, Mendes Júnior LG, do Nascimento LC. Escola de Farmácia e Odontologia de Alfenas (EFOA), Brazil. The antigenic and allergenic chemical analysis of spore and mycelia extracts of Pisolithus tinctorius was carried out. The spores were collected from basidiocarps in plantations of Eucalyptus spp and the mycelia from culture in MNM medium. With basis on the fungus growth curve, the mycelia masses were obtained after 10, 20, 30, and 40 days of incubation, which correspond, respectively, to the beginning, middle and end of the log phase, and beginning of the decline phase. The mycelia masses, together with the spores, were submitted to the action of three extractors (Coca, Tris-HCl, and ammonium bicarbonate). The contents of carbohydrates and proteins were determined. The SDS-PAGE electrophoretical analysis revealed separate fractions in these extracts, besides common fractions, in function of cultivation time and extraction methods. The selected extracts for the allergic tests were the ones with the highest number of fractions. The prick-tests were conducted in 374 patients--rural workers, eucalyptus plantation workers, and college students. The positivity to the "prick test" with the antigenic extract of P. tinctorius was, respectively, 3.78%, 28.20% and 6.40%. Most prick-test positive patients (82.75%) also presented symptoms of respiratory allergy (asthma and rhinitis). There was no reactivity difference when the spore and mycelia extracts were employed. The analysis of the positive patients' sera revealed the presence of IgE specific to the P. tinctorius antigens. Since Pisolithus tinctorius is found as mycorrhiza of Eucalyptus spp, and this plant is used in reforestation in most countries, the importance of that fungus should be regarded as a possible cause of respiratory allergies, especially in occupationally exposed workers. sals wrote: >> Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >> Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >> activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >> Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a biomedical >> database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this computer). >> > where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms your > raising when you make the tea what do you feed while brewing. what > all goes into the tea? > ******************************************************** > To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: > 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; > 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed > to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. > > Visit the SANET-MG archives at: > http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. > Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. > For more information on grants and other resources available through > the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Tue Jul 10 23:37:40 2007 X-UIDL: 368795969 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 02000000 Received: from mailserv1.intrex.net [209.42.192.236] by intrex.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id AE4319F00044; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:28:03 -0400 Received: by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) id 94929266A63; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: lfl@intrex.net Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E267266900 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by viruswatch at intrex.net Received: from lists.ifas.ufl.edu (if-srv-listserv.ifas.ufl.edu [128.227.252.37]) by mailserv1.intrex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D472667D4 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from if-srv-listserv (localhost) by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <7.00089B4E@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:25:52 -0400 Received: by LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 7353783 for SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:25:52 -0400 Received: from qmail3.megared.net.mx by lists.ifas.ufl.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0017B7FC@lists.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:25:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 20441 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2007 03:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shield2.megared.net.mx) ([10.0.57.152]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail.megared.net.mx (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Jul 2007 03:25:51 -0000 Received: from shield2.megared.net.mx (root@localhost) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6B3PpQ94461 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:25:51 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) Received: from LENOVO-F4647E39 ([10.74.65.35]) by shield2.megared.net.mx (8.11.7/8.11.0) with ESMTP id l6B3PoE94455 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:25:51 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cedecor@gmx.net) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.98.4) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for MailServers 5.5.10/RELEASE, bases: 11072007 #338425, status: clean Message-ID: <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:25:31 +0200 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group From: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU In-Reply-To: <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Declude-Sender: owner-sanet-mg@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU [128.227.252.37] X-Note: Total weight is 4. SPAMHEADERS, SUBJSPACES-10 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 368795969 X-NAS-BWL: Found match for 'cedecor@GMX.NET' on the allowed list (374 addresses, 0 domains) X-NAS-Classification: 0 X-NAS-MessageID: 94112 X-NAS-Validation: {90DCBAEC-C7A3-4555-A807-A22CA8B4B85E} After being asked where I was going, I said: >> Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >> Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >> activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >> Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a >> biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this >> computer). Sal then asked: > where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms > your raising when you make the tea Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT Spore Spray) There may be other sources available. http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html Pisolithus tinctorius is a mycorrhizal fungus, which means that it gets its nutrition in a mutualistic association with the roots of trees, mostly with conifers, but sometimes oaks. Remember that in a mycorrhizal association such as this, both partners benefit. This fungus is very useful in reclamation and reforestation of disturbed and poor soils, such as strip mines. It can survive low pH (high acidity), high concentrations of heavy metals, and high soil temperatures in the summer, along with the accompanying drought. It is also useful in the restrictive environment of nurseries. It seems to be a "super-mycorrhiza," and inoculum of "P.t." in the form of spores can be commercially purchased. So even in the "world's ugliest fungus" there is still some good. > what do you feed while brewing. > what all goes into the tea? I haven't got that far yet. -- Douglas ******************************************************** To unsubscribe from SANET-MG: 1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or; 2- Send a message to from the address subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message. Visit the SANET-MG archives at: http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html. Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm. For more information on grants and other resources available through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org. From - Thu Jul 12 23:50:09 2007 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000 Message-ID: <4696F670.9030608@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:50:08 -0400 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Organization: Venaura Farm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne/Wear | Researchers hail organic potatoes References: <468E81DF.4060404@intrex.net> <000301c7c1a2$887bdcb0$4bd5869f@Targadc5fefe82d> <685813978.20070708193831@gmx.net> <469281F1.2070501@ncsu.edu> <303644609.20070709233940@gmx.net> <000801c7c2fe$5de15a40$6401a8c0@SALS> <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <1236624331.20070710222531@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Hinds wrote: >>>Toward biocontrol of Phytophthora using the beneficial fungus >>>Pisolithus Tinctorius, which produces substances with antibiotic >>>activity contra Phytophthora, according to sources I found in >>>Medline (if I recall - I was using Uncover, I believe), a >>>biomedical database, in 1998. (I don't have the details on this >>>computer). > Sal then asked: >>where do you buy your beneficial fungus and any other life forms >>your raising when you make the tea > Pisolithus Tintorius can be obtained from: Plant Health Care, Inc., > Pittsburgh, PA (They sell: MycorTree PT > Spore Spray) > There may be other sources available. > http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/jun2003.html > Pisolithus tinctorius is a mycorrhizal fungus, which means that it > gets its nutrition in a mutualistic association with the roots of > trees, mostly with conifers, but sometimes oaks. Remember that in a > mycorrhizal association such as this, both partners benefit. This > fungus is very useful in reclamation and reforestation of disturbed > and poor soils, such as strip mines. It can survive low pH (high > acidity), high concentrations of heavy metals, and high soil > temperatures in the summer, along with the accompanying drought. It > is also useful in the restrictive environment of nurseries. It seems > to be a "super-mycorrhiza," and inoculum of "P.t." in the form of > spores can be commercially purchased. So even in the "world's > ugliest fungus" there is still some good. >>what do you feed while brewing. >>what all goes into the tea? > I haven't got that far yet. When used with potatoes how is Pisolithus Tinctorius applied? to the seed potatoes before planting? segmented or whole? after planting? Is Pisolithus Tinctorius best applied 1)alone, i.e. according to manufacturer's directions? or 2)in compost tea? If 2) how/when is it added to the tea? What compost tea ingredients would be beneficial a)to Pisolithus Tinctorius and/or b)in combination with Pisolithus Tinctorius, to plants the tea is applied to. What compost tea ingredients would be harmful to, or not beneficial to, Pisolithus Tinctorius? LL -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm lflj@bellsouth.net.net http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/ http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/market-farming