Subject: Re: Looking for information

From: "Michaele Blakely" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:34:57 -0800

----- Original Message -----
From: Marie Kamphefner <[email-masked]>
To: community supported agriculture <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for information

>
> Dear Michaele,
>
> Would you be so kind as to post this information on the list because I
> would like to have this information too?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Marie in Missouri

I sent this personally, because I think it's been posted a couple of times
already, but here goes;
Market Farm Forms
by Marcie A. Rosenzwieg
with Bill Kaye-Blake
[email-masked]

I have not personally used this book.  I have a system that works well for
me,  I've done it for so many years I kinda just know how much to plant for
the yield and the amount of shares I have.  I also use the fudge factor,
whatever is left over if I over estimate goes to market.  I ordered Marcie's
book because I have a difficult time explaining the process to interns and
in a couple of workshops I've given.  I've looked it over and it looks like
something that would be very useful.  I wish I had had similar forms when I
first started out.  I haven't done a comparison on projections for seed
need, but I would imagine it is based on standard yields.  I've used that
from seed catalogs and then figured in my soil's performance to figure my
ordering.  I also plant very intensively.  This book has tables for both
intensive and row planting.

Michaele
Growing Things
Carnation Wa

---

From: Marie Kamphefner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:54:04 -0600

>Cheri:
>I personally sent you some information about this.  Did you not get it?
>
>Michaele

Dear Michaele,

Thank you.

Marie in Missouri

---

From: "Michaele Blakely" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:15:09 -0800

----- Original Message -----
From: jeff uhlig <[email-masked]>
To: community supported agriculture <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for information

Cheri:

Michaele
Growing Things
Carnation WA

> Cheri Shelnutt wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Does anyone here know of any publication, book, workbook etc. that can
> > help me to figure how much to plant?  For example, a place where you can
> > look up that you need to plant x amount of row feet of potato to feed x
> > amount of people.  Seems to be something sorely lacking in the CSA
> > field.  Many newbies, like myself, have no idea where to start with this
> > - some sort of guideline would be great - then we could adjust it for
> > ourselves, our market and our subscribers.
> >
> > Thanks greatly,
> > Cheri Shelnutt
> > Sweet Hollow Farm
> > NE Tennessee
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to csa as: [email-masked]
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst('Email.Unsub')
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to csa as: [email-masked]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst('Email.Unsub')

---

From: Cheri Shelnutt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:10:49 -0500

Hi,

Thanks greatly,
Cheri Shelnutt
Sweet Hollow Farm
NE Tennessee

---

From: "Elizabeth Pike" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:43:52 -0500

Nothing like being told to wait for motivation, eh??  I admire your
number of members and working off the farm.  I wonder how true this is
of other CSA's.  Anyone??

Liz
Morningstar Gardens
Pollocksville  NC

---

From: Jayne Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:59:46 -0500

Cheri, 
In the Autumn issue of "Community Farm" there is an article about Forms,
Templates Spreadsheet and planning/orgnizing information. It seems there
is a computer disc and book of instructions. For information contact Jim
Sluyter and Jo Mellor at Five Springs Farm at the [email-masked] or
call for a back issue (it is a great newsletter for CSA's) at
231-889-3216. I saw this material and it is quit the organizational
tool, even if it takes some time to incorporate into your real world
experience. Our CSA farmers feel recordkeeping may be important for
sharing information with one another.
 
***************************************************
"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be 
  those who cannot read and write,
  but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn"

Jayne Leatherman Walker
Ndibendaagwaz, an Eco-Learning Center
10277 E. Bingham Road
Traverse City, MI 49684-9551
email: [email-masked]

---

From: "Elizabeth Pike" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:55:33 -0500

Jeff & Cheri,

Please understand that my advice was not for never starting a CSA, but
waiting until Cheri & her family had more "dirt under their
fingernails" farming experience before taking on this enormous
responsibility.  Here in her own words:  >My husband works full time
off the farm but would like to eventually be able to farm full time. I
have done limited gardening for our family and loved it (sq. ft.
method/raised beds) but never large scale. <

The growing skills need to be there first.  If the members are willing
to wait a year, as I posted, then she & her family could get their
feet wet, and pick up the following year.  Even then I'd be hesistant
with that many members.  From the research I've done,  & my experience
in my market garden & on our farm,  CSAs of that number require more
work than she & her husband can do without both being pretty full time
workers. It requires more than experience in a family garden.  If you
read my followup post, you will see that I, too, sometimes do things
without the experience.  I even gave her info to help her in working
with one.

>To give advice without at least having done the job yourself is a
great disservice to Cheri. What can you be thinking?<

I'm thinking of a newbie farmer, a woman with a family, of the
crushing stress of harvest when you're not used to it, the loss of the
quiet joy in farming when the work screams at you, all colored by 20
years of experience dealing with customers who give little time for
learning curves.

> She has a opportunity few of us will ever have, a presubscribed CSA.
> Even if it does not work out what is lost. I think the greater loss
> would be to listen to the naysayers and forever wonder about the
> possibilities!

This opportunity is great, but an opportunity that may be jeopardized
by handling it unwisely.  Be it far from me to tell anyone to listen
to naysayers, Jeff.  I'm a world class "tell me it can't be done, then
watch while I do it" kind of person.   I just want her to protect
those possibilities so that she can realize them & not lose them.

Respectfully,

Liz Pike
Morningstar Gardens
Pollocksville NC

---

From: jeff uhlig <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:45:37 -0600

Cheri, 
	Because each farm is so different it is difficult to make such wide
generalities (ask the seed companies). I would go by the results of your
own garden experience for yields in your area. Use your family as the
standard for figureing out how much you need to harvest for your
subscribers. Also ask the former owner what they did. I would add a 25%
cushion just to be sure. check with the local extension office. They can
be a help sometime as well.  Jeff

Cheri Shelnutt wrote:
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst('Email.Unsub')

---

From: jeff uhlig <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 21:24:50 -0600

Elizabeth, Sorry I went ballistic but when I read your message all I
could think of was the same advice I got from Wilson College. They said
wait get experience its not for the newbee. This type of advice is
devastating to someone who has a dream and desire (real desire) to
operate a CSA. Wait for what? and the only way to get the experience you
need for this type of operation is to do it. I have an off farm job too.
So does my wife but we want this to work and are willing to put in the
time and effort to make it. I think there are lots of folks out there
who have the same desire and just need the encouragement to do it.
Should you start small? Sure, but this is an unusual situation a
presubscribed CSA. I started with 25 went to 45 now we are at 80
families and adding things all the time and I'm still learning every
day. Scale is a maganable issue. Equipment is a big equalizer. To feed
45 families she needs to plant maybe 3 acres. Small by most farming
standards but large by home gardeners. I'll plant 5 acres this season a
far cry from my 1/8 home garden but a small 35hp tractor, cultivator,
tiller, mower, seeder and cart bring it back into a managable number. I
was a rookie two seasons ago but I learned thru trial and error and my
garden experience and the help of others. I'm still a rookie but I
wouldn't trade this for anything. Best Regards,  Jeff

---

From: jeff uhlig <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:17:04 -0600

Elizebeth, I'm sorry but I cannot disagree with you more. If I had
listened to those who said if you don't have experience don't try it, I
would never have had the fun, the hard work, the joy of growing food for
those who support me. To give advice without at least having done the
job yourself is a great disservice to Cheri. What can you be thinking?
She has a opportunity few of us will ever have, a presubscribed CSA.
Even if it does not work out what is lost. I think the greater loss
would be to listen to the naysayers and forever wonder about the
possibilities!
You go for it girl! There are plenty of us out here willing to help with
advice on the problems you will encounter, but we are willing to help! 
If I had listened to those at the Wilson College Center I would have
missed a life long dream. Shame!  Jeff Uhlig