From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jul 26 21:35:13 2000
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:45:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@metalab.unc.edu>
To: Itisjo@aol.com
Cc: sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: carpenter ants, chickens


On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 Itisjo@aol.com wrote:

> Hi folks,
> Does anybody know of a good alternative to Terminix for keeping
carpenter
> ants out of our house?

Boric acid powder or in solution as a spray on underpinnings (this is
probably what Dan-Dan will use). The powder is available in
plastic-squeeze-bottles that will puff a dose where you need it.
I'll bet making a strong solution of it to put into a clean
garden spray tank then coating the timbers you need to protect
might work out well. Diatomaceous earth might also be of some value.
Food-grade DE can be obtained in 50 lb. sacks - the pool filter version
will not work.

LL


Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm ICQ#27930345
lflondon@mindspring.com  london@metalab.unc.edu
metalab.unc.edu/intergarden InterGarden
metalab.unc.edu/permaculture PermaSphere
metalab.unc.edu/intergarden/orgfarm AGINFO


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From sgipm@mail.ccsinet.net Wed Jul 26 21:35:39 2000
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:55:42 -0400
From: David Stanley <sgipm@mail.ccsinet.net>
To: Terra Viva Organics <arzeena@tvorganics.com>, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: RE: Worm castings repel ants?

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Sounds like their scent trail was blocked.
DS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
[mailto:owner-sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Terra Viva Organics
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 2:15 PM
To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Worm castings repel ants?


A friend, who is a member of the worm forum  reported that on a recent
discussion someone mentioned success repelling ants with worm castings.

Here's the comment:

Common Ant Reaction
                 We have had reports from users for a long time that ant
infestations have disappeared with the use of our WORMGOLDTM.  Our field
test observation has been that there is an immediate ant reaction. (An
explanation for this difference is that the ants can detect the full
level of chitinase when they walk over the worm castings.  The insects
that suck the nectar from the plants can't detect the chitinase level
until it has multiplied inside the plant). One example of ant revulsion
was seen when WORMGOLDTM was applied for a test of 30 lemon trees for
phytophthora (root rot fungus).   (We were performing the fungus tests
as reported by four academic research studies). The WORMGOLDTM was
applied in a ½" layer from the trunk to the drip line.  Every tree had a
line of ants going up and down the trunk.  As soon as the castings were
applied, the ants coming down the trunk were visibly agitated.  These
ants swarmed above the edge of the WORMGOLDTM at the base of the trunk.
It was clear that they did not want to cross the castings.  The ants
coming in a path to the trees would start to cross the WORMGOLDTM but
proceeded less than ½ inch before they made a 360-degree turn to leave
the castings. The ants then followed the edge of the castings around the
full perimeter until they got back to the advancing path.   The ants
then returned to the nest (or wherever the ants go).  The path around
the castings continued from one to three days, then the ants stopped.
If leaves had dropped onto the WORMGOLDTM , the ants would use the
leaves as a bridge.  (Dr. Atkinson has explained that the ants' sensory
equipment can detect the chitinase and they are not happy walking where
the level is above their detection level).  After about two weeks, the
ants begin again to cross the layer.  It appears that there must be some
change to the top layer of castings.  If the top is raked, the ants
again refuse to cross the layer.  The ants leave the nests in the area
that is covered by the layer of castings.

Homeowners have reported that WORMGOLDTM  applied to the turf and
planting areas around their homes has resulted in the absence of ant
infestations for about a year.

Anyone have any similar findings?

Arzeena
-----------------------------
Terra Viva Organics
Organic garden seed, natural fertilizers & predatory insects
www.tvorganics.com
---------------------------



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From fullcircle@jps.net Wed Jul 26 21:35:59 2000
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:40:17 -0700
From: Marcie Rosenzweig <fullcircle@jps.net>
To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Carpenter ants

Hi all,

I love Cornell's Biocontrol site.

For you w/carpenter ants in the north East...
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ipmnet/ny/urban/urb.brochures/antbro.html

Marcie A. Rosenzweig
Full Circle Organic Farm
Auburn, CA



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From eweigel@juno.com Wed Jul 26 21:36:33 2000
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:07:07 -0700
From: Edna M Weigel <eweigel@juno.com>
To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: carpenter ants and chickens

	I've been interested in some of the comments about ants and have a bit
to add.  I grew up around carpenter ants but don't see them where I am
now.  Here, termites fill the nitch that carpenter ants filled where I
grew up.

About Boric Acid:
	As I recall, boric acid is fairly insoluable, so making a solution of it
will be a challenge.  However, a pest control expert sprayed a borate
solution on the wood and straw of our house before we plastered.  That
was to kill any termites that might try eating it, but I understand boric
acid and borates are just as lethal on ants of all kinds.  You might be
able to find a source for a borate solution that you could buy yourself,
or let a pest control expert supply and spray it on.  I'm guessing the
"borate" was really sodium borate which is very soluable in water.  I
would think to be effective, it would need to be in intimate contact with
the wood, but I'm not sure.

About giving ants other things to eat:
	I was interested in the use of sugar, etc. to distract ants from plants.
 I wonder if sugar water would distract the aphid-tending ants I have in
my garden.  (They tend aphids for the honeydew the aphids excrete don't
they?  Maybe I can entice them into neglecting their herd of aphids. 
That would give me--and the lady bugs--a better chance to control the
aphids.)  Meanwhile, my little chicks enjoy picking the aphids off the
underside of any kale leaves I pick for them that it is worth putting up
with aphids for the moment.
	We have what I call harvester ants that can denude a good sized plant by
carrying away pieces of leaf and stem.  I've found I can distract them
from my garden or tree seedlings by mulching with alfalfa.  (They carry
away alfalfa leaves instead of my plants.)
	I always thought carpenter ants ate wood like termites do, but I just
found a reference to them seeking sweetish liquids, so that suggests you
might be able to mix boric acid (or some borate) with sugar and use it as
a bait. Some time back, Organic Gardening Magazine had a short discussion
about mixing baits and suggested starting with low concentrations of
boric and gradually increasing it to get the ants used to it before
giving them a lethal amount.  They were suggesting that readers try it
and report their success/failures, but I don't recall seeing any more on
the subject.
	The same reference that mentions them seeking sweetish liquids also says
they nest in partly rotten wood and sometimes do damage "highly
suggestive of termites."

About chickens eating ants:
	My chickens go wild over termites, roaches, centipedes, crickets, etc.
in addition to grasshoppers (though not the brightly colored ones that
even I can catch and kill).  But we have several hills of harvester ants
in the chicken yard and I have never noticed the chickens ever eating
ants.  I assume they have too much formic acid to be palitable.  Those
chickens really are discriminating eaters even if they do like such
things as roaches and centipedes which I prefer to keep my distance from.
Best wishes,
Edna
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From sgipm@mail.ccsinet.net Wed Jul 26 21:36:44 2000
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:40:30 -0400
From: David Stanley <sgipm@mail.ccsinet.net>
To: Sanet <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Ants

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Saneters with ant problems:

The Cornell site provides some interesting ecological information on ant
control, unpopular things the exterminator will not tell a customer, and
they properly prioritize control methods, with chemical (boric acid is a
chemical) methods listed last.  

I suggest that folks with ant problems first try to understand how they
operate, investing a little time outside our human boxes to get a sense of
their ecology.  (Stop trying to kill everything that crosses our paths).
Carpenter ants are relatively harmless, are not associated with any diseases
that I know of, and are beneficial predators of gypsy moth and other forest
defoliators when not being a nuisance. They (like other pests) give us
warning when our lives, homes and farms are not quite in balance.  Carpenter
ants are unpopular messengers of how (in)effective we, or previous tenants,
are at sanitation and structural maintenance.

Sanitation is very important, once ants find food (behind the stove, under
the refrigerator, where the toddler stashes food for later), they leave a
pheromone trail so that fellow workers can follow and collect more.  Remove
the food and, eventually, they will not waste time in the house.
Distracting ants with alternate food sources is a good idea, because it
respects their potential beneficial nature.

Structural integrity is also important.  Carpenter ants can warn of unsafe
structures, and may slow decay by cleaning out the rot while they make their
home.  Do not delay fixing your home or barn and removing the cause of the
wood rot.  Use decay resistant footings (black locust, though tough on saws,
is a good substitute for pressure treated wood).  But remember, they do not
cause wood rot, nor eat wood (no ant can digest cellulose like termites can,
but many can digest termites).  They also warn of breaches in your
structure: if an ant can gain entry, so can a bedbug or mosquito.
Observation will also show where the breaches are.  There is a pest control
carpenter in the Boston area who gets top dollar for such a service (to his
credit, he does not spray).

Ants are one of the ways I teach my young children to live and let live.  To
be tolerant in a crowded world.  When an ant is inside, they can do what
they want while I ignore it, but outside, even on the porch,  they can
watch, but not maim.  I tell them  "Is she bothering you?  No? Then don't
bother her." 

Sincerely,
David Stanley
Stanley Gardens IPM
44 Paige Hill Rd
Brimfield MA 01010
(413)245-9701
sgipm@mail.ccsinet.net 


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From holm@acad.umass.edu Wed Jul 26 21:37:30 2000
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:44:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Holm, David & Ingrid" <holm@acad.umass.edu>
To: sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Carpenter Ants

Carpenter Ants
I seem to remember Ron Prokopy, entomologist at UMASS, saying that a 5%
solution of boric acid with sugar water or other sweetener is effective.
It shouldn't be so strong that the ants can detect it; you want the ants
to take it back to the nest as food for the queen.  Using this technique, 
I had success in eliminating an infestation in the wood floor of my house.

David L. Holm
Teaching Assistant, Department of Plant and Soil Science
University of Massachusetts
303 French Hall
Amherst, MA 01003 USA
413-545-2917  holm@acad.umass.edu


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From lionkuntz@email.com Wed Jul 26 21:38:37 2000
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:58:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lion Kuntz <lionkuntz@email.com>
To: Itisjo@aol.com, sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
Subject: RE: carpenter ants, chickens

A basic anticide recipe is yeast granules mixed into molasses, spread on pieces of cardboard that
you lay on ant trails. It causes fatal indigestion. Never tried it on carpenter ants.

By the way, you can tell if you have carpenter ants by all the teeny beer bottles laying around.
(Juvenile construction worker humor.)



------Original Message------
From: Itisjo@aol.com
To: sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
Sent: June 12, 2000 3:50:13 PM GMT
Subject: carpenter ants, chickens


Hi folks,
Does anybody know of a good alternative to Terminix for keeping carpenter
ants out of our house?  We live in a woodsy area in Pa. right next to a
river, so ants and other critters abound here.  But I feel like a hypocrite
trying to have an organic garden while I welcome Dan Dan the Terminix man
into the house every other month.  He and my hubby found two massive
carpenter ant nests in the ground nearby and before I knew it he'd sprinkled
something deadly on them and now we have no more ants in the house.  But
wouldn't my chickens have been able to annihilate them if I'd penned them
there?  Dan says the pesticide he used should be just about gone now because
of all the rain we've had, so do you think I could safely put the chickens
there now?  The ants are trying to come back and I sure don't want hubby to
spread the Diazinon he bought.  Would my 15 little Cornish Rocks do as good a
job at scratching them out as my 4 laying hens would?  Thanks!

Joanne Guth
a mom who's trying to feed her kids right

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From jlstryker@hotmail.com Fri Jul 28 00:55:28 2000
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:39:52 PDT
From: Joel Stryker <jlstryker@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org
To: bdnow@envirolink.org
Subject: Re: Fwd: What's the recipe

The recipe that I've been using for boric acid is pretty simple.

1 cup sugar
2 cups water
1 teaspoon boric acid

I got this from Rincon-Vitova, an insectary that sells a lot of beneficials 
for biocontrol.  I've used it in greenhouses for sweet-loving ants.  Mix up 
the solution (beware of the boric acid, it is toxic!  Especially in the 
powder form, when it's easy to inhale the dust.)  I put it in some kind of 
container with holes in it for the ants, like a bottle of some kind.  A 
small soda bottle would work well, except I don't like the idea of putting 
poisons into something that people will recognize as food.  Something of 
that size, though.  You will probably need to refill/replace about once 
every week or two, because fungi can grow in it.

Good luck!  I don't think this is an organic approach, although it is often 
allowed in organic situations for structural infestations only.  Since it 
poisons the ants, I don't particularly like using it, but when the ants are 
killing all the predators that eat whiteflies, aphids, etc, I'm not sure 
what else to do...

Joel Stryker
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