End of article 9868 (of 9893)--what next? [npq] 9870
Article 9870 (74 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: FAQ-- Rose catalogs
Date: 10 Aug 92 16:24:13 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 309


             US and CANADA ROSE CATALOGS -- FAQ

Susan Gere compiled a rather extensive list of North American
rose nurseries; most of the kudos go to her.  Kay Klier
supplemented the list slightly.

Some of these catalogs are basically lists; many of the roses
(esp. species roses and older roses) are beautifully illustrated
in Martyn Rix and John Phillip's _Roses_, Random House,
(reprint of earlier British edition from Pan Books).

Another good reference is:
Reddell, Rayford C, with MFK Fisher.  1988. _Growing Good Roses_.
Harper & Row.:

The America Rose Society, (PO Box 30000, Shreveport, LA 71130)
publishes a number of specialist books and pamphlets on levels
ranging from "novice" to "expert". and a monthly journal, _The
American Rose_.

All-American Rose Selections (PO Box 218; Shanadoah, IA 51601)
spponsors 23 test-gardens for trials of new introductions,
including one at:
Horticulture Garden
Iowa State University
Ames, IA 50011

OK, WHERE ARE THE OTHERS?????


To locate the source of any commercially propagated rose,
contact:
Bev Dobson's Combined Rose List
215 Harriman Road
Irvington, NY 10533
                                
                ---------------------------------

Antique Rose Emporium
   Route 5, Box 143
   Brenham, TX 77833
   409 836-9051
   Cat $2; old roses and companion perennials

BDK Nursery
   PO Box 628
   Apopka, FL 32704
   minatures

Carroll Gardens
   P.O. Box 310
   Westminster, MD 21157
   301 848-5422

Corn Hill Nursery
   RR 5, Route 890
   Petitcodiac, N.B.
   E0A 2H0 Canada
   506 756-3635
   Cat $2

Country Bloomers Nursery
   20091 E. Chapman Ave.
   Orange, CA 92669
   714 633-7222

Country Heritage Roses
   Route 2, Box 1401
   Scurry, TX 75158
   214 452-3380

Earl May Seed & Nursery L.P.
   Shenandoah, IA 51603
   800 831-4193

Forest Farms
   990 Tetherow Road
   Williams, OR 97544
   503 846-6963
   Cat $1.50

Forevergreen Farm
   70 New Gloucester Road
   North Yarmouth, ME 04021
   207 829-5830
   Cat $0

Gloria Dei Nursery
   36  East Road
   High Falls Park, NY 12440
   miniatures

Greenmantle Nursery
   3010 Ettersburg Road
   Garberville, CA 95440
   707 986-7504

Gurney Seed & Nursery
   110 Capitol Street
   Yankton, SD 57079
   605 665-4451
   Cat $0; handles Brownell "Subzero Roses"

Heirloom Old Garden Roses
   Oregon
   503 538-1576

Heritage Rosarium
   211 Haviland Mill Road
   Brookeville, MD 20833
   301 774-2806
   Cat $1

Heritage Rose Gardens
   16831 Mitchell Creek Drive
   Fort Bragg, CA 95437
   707 964-3748
   Cat $1

High Country Rosarium
   1717 Downing at Park Ave.
   Denver, CO 80218
   303 832-4026

Historical Roses
   1657 W. Jackson Street
   Painesville, OH 44077
   216 357-7270
   Cat $0; old and modern cvs.

Hortico Roses
   Robson Road, RR 1
   Waterdown, Ontario
   L0R 2H1 Canada
   416 689-6984
   Cat $2

Inter-State Nurseries
   P.O. Box 10
   Louisiana, MI 63353
   314 754-4525
   800 325-4180

Jackson and Perkins
   2518 South Pacific Highway
   PO Box 1028
   Medford, OR 97501
   Cat $0; modern roses; also some fruits, veg, herbs.

Keener Classics
   205 E. Edgewood
   Friendswood, TX 77546
   Cat $0; old roses for the South

Kimbrew-Walter Roses
   Route 2, Box 172
   Grand Saline, TX 75140
   214 829-2968

Kraus Nurseries
   Carlisle, Ontario 10R 1H0
   Canada
   Cat $0; roses, fruit and ornamental trees and shrubs, some
   berries and grapes.

Krider Nurseries
   P.O. Box 29
   Middlebury, IN 46540
   219 825-5714

Lowe's Own Root Roses
   6 Sheffield Road
   Nashua, NH 03062
   603 888-2214
   Cat $2; ca. 500 cvs; also custom propagation.

MB Farm Miniature Roses
   Jamison Hill Road
   Clinton Corners, NY 12514
   miniatures

McDaniels Miniature Roses
   7523 Zemco Street
   Lemon Grove, CA 92045
   minatures

Mini Farm
   PO Box 501
   Bon Aqua, TN 37025
   miiniatures

Mini-Roses
   PO Box 4255
   Station A
   Dallas, TX 75208
   Car $0; miniatures

Miniature Plant Kingdom
   4125 Harrison Grade Road
   Sebastopol, CA 95472
   Cat $1; miniatures

Morden Nurseries
   P.O. Box 1270
   Morden, Manitoba
   R0G 1J0 Canada
   204 822-3311

Nor'East Miniature Roses
   58 Hammond Street
   Rowley, MA 01969
   Cat $0; minatures

Pickering Nurseries
   670 Kingston Road Hwy 2
   Pickering, Ontario
   L1V 1A6 Canada
   416 839-2111
   Cat $2 (price list free)

Pixie Treasures Miniature Roses
   4121 Prospect Avenue
   Yorba Linda, CA 92686
   Cat $1; miniatures

Rose Acres
   6641 Crystal Blvd.
   Diamond Springs, CA 95619
   916 626-1722
   Cat SASE; modern and old roses; strong on musk and single
   roses.

Rose Garden and Mini-Rose Nursery
   PO Box 203
   Cross Hill, SC 29332
   miniatures

Rosehill Farm
   PO Box 203
   Galena, MD 21635
   miniatures

Roses by Fred Edmunds
   6235 SW Kahle Road
   Wilsonville, OR 97070
   Cat $0; old and modern roses, including "classic" modern roses
   of Kordes, McFredy, Warriner, Meilland, Tantau

Roses of Yesterday & Today
   802 Brown's Valley Road
   Watsonville, CA 95076
   408 724-3537
   Cat $3;  One of the most mouth-wateringly written catalogs!

Roseway Nurseries
   205 N Main
   PO Box 269
   Ridgefield, WA 98642
   Cat $0; modern roses

Smith & Hawken (seems to be expanding into the old rose market)
   25 Corte Madera
   Mill Valley, CA 94941
   Cat info 415 383-2000

Spring Hill Nurseries
   110 W Elm Street
   Tipp City, OH 43571
   Cat $0; mostly hybrid teas and grandifloras, some climbers and
   tree roses.

Springwood Miniature Roses
   Port Credit
   Box 255
   Mississauga, Ontario, L5G 4L8
   Canada
   miniatures

Stocking Rose Nursery
   785 N Capitol Avenue
   San Jose, CA 95133
   Cat $0; modern roses

Tiny Jewels Nursery
   9509 N Bartlett Road
   Oklahoma City, OK 73131
   miniatures

Tiny Petals Nursery
   489 Minot Avenue
   Chula Vista, CA 92010

Thomasville Nurseries
   PO Box 7
   Thomasville, GA 31799
   Cat $0; modern roses, evergreen & native azaleas; daylilies,
   liriope

Wayside Gardens
   PO Box 1
   1 Garden Lane
   Hodges, SC 29695-0001
   Cat $0; perennials, including some roses, esp. "English
   garden" class

Yesterday's Rose
   572 Las Colindas Road
   San Rafael, CA 94903

From: Kay Klier
Subject: Re: The Rundown on Roses (long)
Date: 5 Feb 92 04:27:39 GMT

> First of all, what distinguishes various kinds of roses?  I can't
> reliably tell the difference between a Floribunda, a Bourbon, or
> a Damask.  I'm pretty good on hybrid teas...  But all the various
> forms of old-fashioned roses confuse me completely -- they all look
> overpetaled and kind  of cabbagey.
> I've figured out that moss roses have fuzzy branches and foliage,
> but what are hybrid perpetuals and Gallicas?  What is a Portland
> rose (the only comment in one catalog was, "Akin to the Damask."
> Thanks a lot)?  I used to live in Portland, and I'd go visit the
> rose test gardens and admire the plants, but I couldn't ever figure
> out the distinguishing characteristics.
> Is a hedge rose the same as a shrub rose?  What about a bedding rose?
> An English rose?  Hybrid Musk?  Landscape rose?  And, yes, cabbage rose?

Well, I'm NOT a rosarian, but I can tell you that most of us have similar
problems in classifying cultivated roses.  Including (especially?)
the plant taxonomists.  Modern roses are a giant amalgam of all sorts
of species, and some of the more important characteristics of a parental
species might not show up in outward appearance, but might instead
influence a character like winter hardiness.

Me, I'm a utilitarian when it comes to rose classifications.  I divide
the groups into old-fashioned or garden roses (which usually smell
pretty good, & bloom once or a few times a year) and modern roses, which
are bred to be in bloom nearly all season, and often look a lot like
florist's roses.  Generally not much scent, either.  (These are, of
course, generalizations, and there are some nicely scented modern roses,
and some old-fashioned types that don't smell much at all.)

Shrub roses are that get at least as big as a forsythia, IMHO, and if
you plant them in a row, they are then hedge roses.  If you've got
a single big shrub rose, then I call that a landscape rose.  Might be
the same plant as the one in the hedge...  I like to grow species
roses rather than recent cultivars, so most of mine are shrub roses.

Bedding roses are roses that are planted in beds like geraniums in a
park flower bed (not my favorite way to use roses, but that's my
problem...).  These are generally hybrid tea type roses.

English roses are a fairly new development; they are supposed to combine
the form and odors of old fashioned roses with the blooming habits of
a hybrid tea.   Then there are climbing roses and ground-cover roses
(in both the old and modern groups)....

Now, if you're trying to guess whether a particular rose cultivar might
do well for you, you need to have some idea of the ancestry.  That's
where groups like "Bourbon", "China Tea", "hybrid tea", "rugosa", etc.
start getting useful.  These are rough indications of how likely the
plant is to survive your winters, what sort of abuse it can take,
what it will smell like, and the general form and odor of the flowers.

Roses with a China rose ancestry tend to bloom often (for old-fashioned
roses), but they don't stand much frost.  Most of the native

European roses (like Rosa gallica, apothecary's rose) bloom once a year.
Other European roses that have had a big role in modern rose ancestry are
Rosa x alba (which is itself a hybrid) and the damask roses, which are
also hybrids.   Cabbage roses (R. x centifolia, provence rose) are
hybrids of a damask and an alba rose.  Portland roses were named after
a duchess of Portland (England), right about 1800.  Moss roses are
mutants that have croped up several times in the cabbage roses and
the damasks.

The China roses that were selected in Europe, were, as I said earlier,
pretty frost-tender.  Tea roses are also tender Chinese roses, but
they were hybridized with the Bourbon roses and the Noisettes.  When
they crossed the bourbons, noisettes and hybrid perpetuals, the result
was the first hybrid tea roses.

OK, so where did the Bourbons, Noisettes, and Hybrid Perpetuals come
from?  The Bourbons are selections of Rosa chinensis hybridized with
an unknown rose growing in Egypt in the early 1800's.  Someone
sent some seeds on to France, where they became great favorites.  Redoute,
Marie Antoinette's painting teacher, did a lot of watercolors of
these.

Noisettes are hybrids between Rosa chinensis and Rosa moschata (musk
rose).  They were first grown in South Carolina.

Hybrid Perpetuals are from (Portland x China) x (Gallica x China).

Because of the large amounts of R. chinensis ancestry, most of these
are pretty frost-tender.

There are a lot of other groups of roses that represent selections
from certain hybrid ancestries, but I think you get the idea...

The Phillips and Rix book called Roses has a fairly good section on
history of modern cultivar groups.  Trouble is, it gets so complicated,
that you've almost got to draw out ancestry charts to figure out
what's going on.

Truthfully, I just sort of know the rose groups that I'm most likely
to be able to grow (for my climate, rugosas, polyanthas, some wichurianas,
sweet briars, pimpinellifolias, and anything with a R. multiflora, R.
setigera or R. arkansana ancestry, as well as some others).  The rest
I visit in some nice botanical garden in some nice warm area, and
say, "gee, wish that one would make it up north...".


Subject: THORNLESS ROSE UPDATE
Date: 21 May 92 12:15:22 GMT

A few days ago I e-mailed a reply to someone who wanted to know about
hardy, thornless roses.  Then I thought perhaps I ought to share what
I have learned with the rest of this newsgroup.  I have about fifty
different varieties of roses planted around my house, mostly old garden
roses, i.e. varieties in cultivation before the emergence of the hybrid
tea roses in the last third of the 19th century.  Those varieties I have
that are both extremely hardy (they survived -5/-10F this winter and a
brutal mid-March frost that killed some hybrid teas) and thornless or nearly
so include REINE DES VIOLETTES, ROSA CENTIFOLIA PARVIFOLIA, ROSA GALLICA
OFFICINALIS, THERESE BUGNET(thorns appear on the lower 12 inches of
the 4-5 foot canes),NASTARANA, ICEBERG(a floribunda) and TOUR DE MALAKOFF.

Of these, the ones with the least thorns are REINE DES VIOLETTES and
CENTIFOLIA PARVIFOLIA.

From: Kay Klier
Subject: Re: The Rundown on Roses (long)
Date: 5 Feb 92 04:27:39 GMT

> First of all, what distinguishes various kinds of roses?  I can't
> reliably tell the difference between a Floribunda, a Bourbon, or
> a Damask.  I'm pretty good on hybrid teas...  But all the various
> forms of old-fashioned roses confuse me completely -- they all look
> overpetaled and kind  of cabbagey.
> I've figured out that moss roses have fuzzy branches and foliage,
> but what are hybrid perpetuals and Gallicas?  What is a Portland
> rose (the only comment in one catalog was, "Akin to the Damask."
> Thanks a lot)?  I used to live in Portland, and I'd go visit the
> rose test gardens and admire the plants, but I couldn't ever figure
> out the distinguishing characteristics.
> Is a hedge rose the same as a shrub rose?  What about a bedding rose?
> An English rose?  Hybrid Musk?  Landscape rose?  And, yes, cabbage rose?

Well, I'm NOT a rosarian, but I can tell you that most of us have similar
problems in classifying cultivated roses.  Including (especially?)
the plant taxonomists.  Modern roses are a giant amalgam of all sorts
of species, and some of the more important characteristics of a parental
species might not show up in outward appearance, but might instead
influence a character like winter hardiness.

Me, I'm a utilitarian when it comes to rose classifications.  I divide
the groups into old-fashioned or garden roses (which usually smell
pretty good, & bloom once or a few times a year) and modern roses, which
are bred to be in bloom nearly all season, and often look a lot like
florist's roses.  Generally not much scent, either.  (These are, of
course, generalizations, and there are some nicely scented modern roses,
and some old-fashioned types that don't smell much at all.)

Shrub roses are that get at least as big as a forsythia, IMHO, and if
you plant them in a row, they are then hedge roses.  If you've got
a single big shrub rose, then I call that a landscape rose.  Might be
the same plant as the one in the hedge...  I like to grow species
roses rather than recent cultivars, so most of mine are shrub roses.

Bedding roses are roses that are planted in beds like geraniums in a
park flower bed (not my favorite way to use roses, but that's my
problem...).  These are generally hybrid tea type roses.

English roses are a fairly new development; they are supposed to combine
the form and odors of old fashioned roses with the blooming habits of
a hybrid tea.   Then there are climbing roses and ground-cover roses
(in both the old and modern groups)....

Now, if you're trying to guess whether a particular rose cultivar might
do well for you, you need to have some idea of the ancestry.  That's
where groups like "Bourbon", "China Tea", "hybrid tea", "rugosa", etc.
start getting useful.  These are rough indications of how likely the
plant is to survive your winters, what sort of abuse it can take,
what it will smell like, and the general form and odor of the flowers.

Roses with a China rose ancestry tend to bloom often (for old-fashioned
roses), but they don't stand much frost.  Most of the native

European roses (like Rosa gallica, apothecary's rose) bloom once a year.
Other European roses that have had a big role in modern rose ancestry are
Rosa x alba (which is itself a hybrid) and the damask roses, which are
also hybrids.   Cabbage roses (R. x centifolia, provence rose) are
hybrids of a damask and an alba rose.  Portland roses were named after
a duchess of Portland (England), right about 1800.  Moss roses are
mutants that have croped up several times in the cabbage roses and
the damasks.

The China roses that were selected in Europe, were, as I said earlier,
pretty frost-tender.  Tea roses are also tender Chinese roses, but
they were hybridized with the Bourbon roses and the Noisettes.  When
they crossed the bourbons, noisettes and hybrid perpetuals, the result
was the first hybrid tea roses.

OK, so where did the Bourbons, Noisettes, and Hybrid Perpetuals come
from?  The Bourbons are selections of Rosa chinensis hybridized with
an unknown rose growing in Egypt in the early 1800's.  Someone
sent some seeds on to France, where they became great favorites.  Redoute,
Marie Antoinette's painting teacher, did a lot of watercolors of
these.

Noisettes are hybrids between Rosa chinensis and Rosa moschata (musk
rose).  They were first grown in South Carolina.

Hybrid Perpetuals are from (Portland x China) x (Gallica x China).

Because of the large amounts of R. chinensis ancestry, most of these
are pretty frost-tender.

There are a lot of other groups of roses that represent selections
from certain hybrid ancestries, but I think you get the idea...

The Phillips and Rix book called Roses has a fairly good section on
history of modern cultivar groups.  Trouble is, it gets so complicated,
that you've almost got to draw out ancestry charts to figure out
what's going on.

Truthfully, I just sort of know the rose groups that I'm most likely
to be able to grow (for my climate, rugosas, polyanthas, some wichurianas,
sweet briars, pimpinellifolias, and anything with a R. multiflora, R.
setigera or R. arkansana ancestry, as well as some others).  The rest
I visit in some nice botanical garden in some nice warm area, and
say, "gee, wish that one would make it up north...".

Kay Klier   Biology Dept  UNI

Subject: Re: Pruning roses for repeat bloom...
Date: 22 Apr 92 21:33:32 GMT

> Since Mr. Lincoln has made these beautiful flowers and new shoots are on the
> way, I need to know a little about where, when, and if to cut the
> flowers off.
> As I understand it, it is good to prune the flowers to encourage more
> growth and blooming.

Yes, this is true.

> But when?
>     Should the flower be cut toward the beginning, middle, or end of the
>     bloom? Are any of these okay, so long as you don't leave it sit there
>     once the petals fall?

Any of the above times is fine.  If not cut back before, definintely cut
them back when the petals fall.

> And where?
>     Is there some particularly good spot to make the cut? My guess would be
>     to cut it just above (1/4 inch?) a leaf-joint on the stem, maybe 3 to 5
>     joints below the bloom. Is this right?

General pruning rules:

1)  The more plant that you leave the quicker your rose will rebloom.
Nutrients are stored in the plant and the old leaves will be producing
the energy for the new leaves.

2)  Remove anything smaller in diameter than a pencil (This is for hybrid teas,
which your roses are).  Anything smaller will only provide weak growth that
can't support blooms.

3)  Cut just above an out-facing leaf node.  This is to keep the center of
the plant open and allow for good air circulation and hence limit
susceptibility to disease.  (The old rule was that this node had to have
at least 5 leaflets, but if the diameter is enough, 3 will work fine.)

4)  Fertilize after each bloom/cut-back cycle.

My hints/rules:

1) I ignore the out-facing leaf node advice after the first couple of
bloom cycles.  The growing season is too long here and you can end up
with eight foot roses on long canes that may even need staking.  I'll
often cut to an in-facing node to get some growth into the interior of
the plant.  (I believe this is called bird caging.  Does anyone know
the term?)

2)  If it is hot in the late summer, the rebloom will take longer.
Sometimes (especially in drought years when I haven't been watering or
fertilizing to conserve water), I'll do a mini-rose prune and
reshaping to get a more vigorous fall bloom.

My neighbors roses are near mine.  Some are even the same
varieties.  Their gardener usually cuts the roses back later after
bloom than mine and then too heavily.  Usually by the end of the
summer I'll have had a couple more blooming cycles with more roses
than they get.

> And how?
> I imagine you are supposed to cut the stem on a slant. But should
> the longer side of the stem wind up on the joint side or the opposite
> side?

The main thing with the cut is that it is not parallel to the ground.
This is so that water will run off and prevents diseases from entering
the plant.  I find this doesn't make much of a difference since it
rarely rains here in the summer and I have my roses on drip
irrigation.

> Rose people, shower me with your knowledge, please!

Hope this helped.

Jim


Subject: Re: Rose update...
Summary: Growing Roses organically and disease-resistant varieties
Date: 25 Apr 92 17:26:41 GMT

>  Recent hybrids: I am disappointed to see several new David Austins
>in my yard getting mildew. They are supposed to combine the virtues
>of old and new, but I am getting skeptical.

The recent (May/June) anniversary issue of Organic Gardening has a great
article on growing roses organically, including some suggestions for more/less
resistant plants. Clair Martin, curator of Huntington Gardens in San Marino,
CA suggests the following after 5 years of trials:

Healthier plants:
Graham Thomas, Pretty Jessica, Belle Story, Othello, Claire Rose

More susceptible to mildew:
Gertrude jekyll, Bredon, Proud Titania, Prospero (also to rust), The Miller,
Lordly Oberon and the author adds Fisherman's Friend.

Other varieties are also discussed as well as explainations and descriptions
of various common diseases, and how to possibly treat.


From: klier
[2] Rose conditioning (was Rose update)
Date: Fri May  1 20:56:38 1992

> In Australia, Western Australia to be precise, one of the best varieties
> to grow is Maria Callas.  Gorgeous colour, size and scent!!
> Mr Lincoln is also very popular and I am trying to get a bush for my new
> garden at the moment to see for myself.  By far my favourite variety on
> the bush is Fresia, though it doesn't last very long in water.  Does
> anyone have any ideas on how to increase the life in water?

Well, I won't ask why, with all the weird & wonderful Australian flora,
someone would grow roses...;-)

Do you condition your roses when you cut them?  Makes a world of difference!

Cut flowers in the early morning or after a rain, or any time that they
are NOT under water stress.  Cut the stem at least an inch or so longer
(2-4cm, in rational terms) than you need, and immediately place the stem
in water.

Back in the house, recut the stem on a slant UNDER WATER with a very sharp
knife or (my choice) a single-edged razor blade.  Keep the cut end under water
at all times.   Now remove all foliage that will be under water when you
display the bloom. (If the leaves will be above water in the final vase,
it's OK to keep them on.)  Now find a clean container that is at least as
deep as the rose is tall, and fill it with warmish water -- about 100oF
or 38oC.  Immerse the rose stem and foliage in the container to the base
of the rose flower, and place the container in a cool place for 8-12
hours (hint, not the refrigerator if you keep fruit in it-- ethylene
from ripening fruit will cause premature petal drop.)

After 8-12 hours, you can remove the rose and put it in the decorative
vase.  Be sure vases are scrupulously clean, since bacterial and fungal
growth kill cut flowers quite rapidly.  Change the water in the vase
every day.  Recut the stem underwater every day if you can (kinda hard
in a major arrangement!)


Other treatments that I find too much to bother with:
commercial cut flower foods, usually with a base of sucrose and silver
nitrate or sucrtse and hydroxyquinones.
home-made formulas, the best of which is probably 50% 7-up or other
fizzy lemon soda + 1 1/2 tsp (30 ml) household chlorine bleach.
