From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Wed Dec 21 19:04:07 EST 1994
Article: 1 of rec.ponds
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From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 13:33:04 +0800
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In article <3d9ruo$a3j@nova.voicenet.com>, SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com
(SirWill1) wrote:

> Carie Nixon (carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
> 
> :  I use native Killifish, or Topminnows as the native species are called. 
> : They are pretty, peaceful (don't bother the koi or goldfish), overwinter,
> : and reproduce enough to keep a steady supply in my pond.  I keep
> : Starheaded, Blackstriped and Blackspotted Topminnows, which are all native
> : to Illinois where I live.  Some people just go to the bait store and buy
> : minnow and put a few in.  This works, but they aren't as interesting, and
> : may reproduce too quickly. 
> 
> What species of Killes do you keep in a pond?  I was under the impression 
> that Killifish, as a group name, defines several species of fish which 
> live in ponds that dry up during winter. Eggs hatch when the waters flood 
> the areas in the spring and the fish grow to breeding size quickly, the 
> fertilized eggs remain dormant through the winter and then the cycle 
> begins again.
> 
As mentioned above, I keep Starhead, Blackstripe and Blackspotted
Topminnows, which are killifish (members of the Family Fundulidae, the egg
laying tooth carps).  Some of the killifish do lay their eggs in ponds that
dry up (such as Nothobranchius), but they are in the minority.  The North
American native killifish also include studfish several brackish and
saltwater fish such as the mummichog, Sheepshead Minnow, Diamond Killifsh,
and so on.  The group used to include the pupfish and Flagfish as well
(family Cyprinodontidae).  Sorry about the lecture.  This is what happens
when you ask a biologist a question that they know the answer to!  Some
people I know keep some of the exotic killifish (African of South American)
in ponds for the summer, but they have to be brought inside for the winter.
 I have put them out before, but have been known to forget to get them in
soon enough to save them all.  The ones that make it are very invigorated
>from  the summer in the sun.    


From epur01@email.mot.com Wed Dec 21 19:04:08 EST 1994
Article: 2 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns)
Subject: Waterfall Construction
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 13:57:05 -0500
Message-ID: <epur01-2112941357050001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
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Can anyone recommend definitive publications available on the subject of
waterfall contruction?  I have a large amount of corkstone available for
such as project but need ideas on construction techniques, materials
(especially mortars) and plumbing.

Any experts out there?

-- 
Don Burns                     | Motorola E-Mail: epur01
Motorola Inc.                 |        Internet: epur01@email.mot.com
Energy Products Division      |           Voice: 305-475-5518
Plantation, FL  U.S.A.        |             Fax: 305-475-6095
            
X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/


From nearyr@csos.orst.edu Wed Dec 21 21:59:42 EST 1994
Article: 4 of rec.ponds
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From: nearyr@csos.orst.edu (robert neary)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Removing sunken leaves
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 15:17:02 PST
Organization: OSU CS Outreach Services, Corvallis, Oregon
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I installed a pond this september, almost 600 gallons.  I used a pond 
liner but haven't installed a filter yet.  I placed 6 tiny koi in the 
pond.  I noticed a lot of earthworms in the bottom of the pond, I would 
try to scoop them out along with the leaves that got waterlogged and sunk 
to the bottom.
But the earthworms continue to crawl out of the ground, over the edge, 
and into the pond.
First, will their decaying pollute the pond and kill the fish?  Secondly,
is there any way of keeping the earthworms out of the pond, or is this 
just a normal thing that happens with newly constructed ponds?

Robert Neary



From trg1@ins.infonet.net Wed Dec 21 21:59:43 EST 1994
Article: 5 of rec.ponds
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From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond liners
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:30:33 cdt
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To those looking for a "rubber" pond liner, I would suggest getting the 
material used for rubber-roofing.  Actually it is neoprene.  I have found it 
available in widths up to 50-feet and thicknesses of around 40mil to 75mil.  
This stuff is tough and is designed for prolonged exposure to sunlight.  The 
people I have talked with say it will last at least 30 years in sunlight, so 
it should last a very long time when convered by water.

Best of all, this material is designed to be sold in large volume so the price 
is very reasonable, especially compared with the material sold exclusively for 
ponds (and it's also thicker---the TetraPond material I've seen is 32mil).  
Check your local commercial roofing supply store for the material.


From trg1@ins.infonet.net Wed Dec 21 21:59:44 EST 1994
Article: 6 of rec.ponds
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From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Noisy Ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:33:46 cdt
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In article <D16E30.D6z@info.bris.ac.uk> tjl@siva.bris.ac.uk (Tim Llewellyn) writes:
>From: tjl@siva.bris.ac.uk (Tim Llewellyn)
>Subject: Noisy Ponds 
>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 19:28:11 GMT



>My next door neighbour has a pond. He keeps upgrading it (=> making
>lots of noise in the morning when I'm usually trying to sleep).

>Anyway, he has some kind of water-purifier fountain type things thats
>REAL noisy and he runs it 24*7*365. People who live up the street have
>asked me how I can live with it, but the gurgling and splashing isn't
>TOO annoying and I can even tell the difference between it and rain now
>(it is louder than all but the heaviest rain, we're talking small urban
>terraced houses here).

>So anyway, seeing this group just started, I guess there might be
>people here who know whether it REALLY is necessary for him to run this
>fountain 24 hours a day. Would turning it off at night really be that
>bad. btw he does have some fish.

>TIA

>-- 

Is it necessary?---No.



From trg1@ins.infonet.net Wed Dec 21 21:59:45 EST 1994
Article: 7 of rec.ponds
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From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Ponds in the winter
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:44:36 cdt
Organization: Technology Resource Group
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I'm curious as to how many other people are maintaining their ponds in the 
winter.  Mostly, I'm curious about small ponds (mine is 800gal) where you can 
have some control over nature's effects.  I'm located in central Iowa, so cold 
weather (ice) is the issue.

I've wintered my fish outside for the last couple years (this is the third), 
but have been too scared to let the water stay completely frozen over for more 
than a few days at time.  I have bubbler at the deep end (3-feet) and a 
bird-bath heater (250W) submerged just below the surface in an attempt to 
maintain an area of open water.  Using the bubbler alone ($10 total cost from 
WalMart, under a bucket for weather protection) only results in dome of ice 
with air underneath it, but no open water.  The combination of the heater and 
the bubbler works pretty well up until multiple days of single-digit 
temperatures.  I realize that the heater probably runs continously, but I'm 
not trying to heat the whole pond, only enough for a circle of open water.

I'm content with the current system, but want to know if others out there have
tried (successfully or not) to winter fish in similarly sized ponds without 
trying to maintain open water?  I am assuming that oxygen starvation will 
result because of the small size otherise.


From trg1@ins.infonet.net Wed Dec 21 21:59:46 EST 1994
Article: 8 of rec.ponds
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From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Removing sunken leaves
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:50:01 cdt
Organization: Technology Resource Group
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In article <3dacrn$e2j@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU> nearyr@csos.orst.edu (robert neary) writes:
>From: nearyr@csos.orst.edu (robert neary)
>Subject: Removing sunken leaves
>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 15:17:02 PST

>I installed a pond this september, almost 600 gallons.  I used a pond 
>liner but haven't installed a filter yet.  I placed 6 tiny koi in the 
>pond.  I noticed a lot of earthworms in the bottom of the pond, I would 
>try to scoop them out along with the leaves that got waterlogged and sunk 
>to the bottom.
>But the earthworms continue to crawl out of the ground, over the edge, 
>and into the pond.
>First, will their decaying pollute the pond and kill the fish?  Secondly,
>is there any way of keeping the earthworms out of the pond, or is this 
>just a normal thing that happens with newly constructed ponds?

>Robert Neary

My pond is a similar size and I have had no problems.  I do my best to keep 
the leaves out in the fall by using a plastic net over the top to keep out the 
majority, and by manually removing others from the surface whenever 
convenient.

I know there is a layer of "muck" at the bottom (the same as natural ponds), 
but I don't know what forms of life reside there (such as worms).  My fish 
have been healthy and have multiplied, so I assume that it shouldn't be a 
problem.

Side note: I do not filter the water at all, but I use water-lilies and water 
hyacynths to keep the algea down.


Tim Prachar (central Iowa climate)



From berglas@cs.uq.oz.au Wed Dec 21 21:59:46 EST 1994
Article: 9 of rec.ponds
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From: berglas@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Berglas)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Edging
Date: 21 Dec 1994 23:48:35 GMT
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In <3d9fc0$63t@larry.rice.edu> segura@rice.edu (Chad James Segura) writes:

>Hi,

>I'm building a small backyard pond (50 FT2 area) and need
>help with the edging.  Awhile back someone on rec.gardens
>wrote how to edge the pond so one couldn't see the liner.
>Anybody have a copy of that to post?  It was the beginning
>of what looked like a ponds faq.  Thanks.

I built a shelf about 2' wide and 6" deap as part of the pond all the
way around.  [God said that news must not contain diagrams.].  I then
put large rocks (50Kg) (borrowed from a local site that was being
cleared for development) and a log around the edge, and put a layer of
course, rounded gravel/riverstones (2-4") over the remaining liner
that could be seen, including the bottom.  [Lots of things now live
amongst the river stones.]

Anthony


--
Anthony Berglas
Rm 312a, Computer Science, Uni of Qld, 4072, Australia.
Uni Ph +61 7 365 4184,  Home 391 7727,  Fax 365 1999


From hmaxwell@netcom.com Fri Dec 23 00:54:44 EST 1994
Article: 11 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: hmaxwell@netcom.com (Helene Maxwell)
Subject: Let's get serious!
Message-ID: <hmaxwellD179rv.Gx1@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
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Well, that's a heck of an opener but I think we could use a little
serious discussion about ponds.  Outdoor ponds, the natural types, the 
kind that have fish in them.  Ponds  teeming with bass and bluegill
that nobody but you knows about, ponds you have to ride your bike half an 
hour to get to along a bumpy but level dirt path.  Ponds like that.



From tstrickl@grits Fri Dec 23 00:54:44 EST 1994
Article: 12 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu!grits!tstrickl
From: tstrickl@grits (Timothy Strickland)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Books
Date: 22 Dec 1994 13:06:17 GMT
Organization: Valdosta State InterNetNews site
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John McCann (mccann@mail.duke.edu) wrote:
: I have been searching for books on pond construction but have not 
: found anything in our local libraries (Durham, NC) or in the book 
: stores.  Does anyone have a list of appropriate books?

Since I am in the planning stage of building I have a list for you.

1. John Dawes's BOOK OF WATER GARDENS,  ISBN 0-86622-662-1.
This is a VERY complete book with 14 chapters covering topics from "Setting the Scene" in Ch.1 to "Selection of Plants for the Pond" Ch.14.

Suggested readings listed in the back of this book are:
KOI AND GARDEN PONDS,  ISBN: 0-86622-398-3
GARDEN PONDS, ISBN: 0-86622-266-9
WATER GARDENS FOR PLANTS AND FISH, ISBN: 0-866232-942-6

Dawes lists other books specifically for goldfish and koi as well. I have to suggest that Dawes's book is complete enough for the beginner like myself. It has covered every topic I could have thought of and a couple that I had not          considered, "how to keep cats away from your pond". Anyway, I hope that this    helps. Good luck.

Wish me luck as well, I start construction of our new pond on Monday.

Merry Christmas 

T.W. Strickland



From Pond Kid@pond.england.wet Fri Dec 23 00:54:45 EST 1994
Article: 13 of rec.ponds
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From: Pond Kid@pond.england.wet
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Falling into ponds
Date: 22 Dec 1994 12:54:47 GMT
Organization: Pondsforge
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 I think that this newsgroup could be on the way to obtaining cult status. Has
anyone got any amusing stories about falling into ponds - I haven't, but I did
once fall into a canal, in the middle of a bike ride and had to cycle home
smelling of deisel/pondweed...mmm nice. We had a plastic pink flamingo in the
pond at the Uni of Nottingham, but some bastard robbed it. Cool newsgroup,
                  Love Pop Pond Kid


From tstrickl@grits Fri Dec 23 00:54:46 EST 1994
Article: 14 of rec.ponds
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From: tstrickl@grits (Timothy Strickland)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 22 Dec 1994 13:25:10 GMT
Organization: Valdosta State InterNetNews site
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Thanks for all of the suggestions, here in North Central Florida I should not   have to worry about freezing temps often. I have decided to use a liner. I am   preparing the sight now and looking for a good strong liner. The only major     problem I am looking at now is the possibility of tree roots eventually cutting into the liner. The sight I am looking at is not directly near a tree, but largeoaks have a habit of sending out LONG STRONG roots. I should start the digging  process on Monday. Wish me luck

, and again, Thank You for all the suggestions.

T.W. Strickland


From russell_parrish@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov Fri Dec 23 00:54:47 EST 1994
Article: 15 of rec.ponds
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From: russell_parrish@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov (Russell V. Parrish)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: LillyPons Address?
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 08:42:59 -0500
Organization: NASA Langley
Lines: 26
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References: <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
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In article <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, 
Randy_Witlicki@lebanon.valley.net (Randy Witlicki) writes:
> 
> I've seen some references to a company called LillyPons. 
> Can somebody post their address/phone number?  Maybe this can make it 
> into the FAQ. 
> 
> Also:  Anybody have good sources for waterfall equipment? The pump 
> selection in the Edmund Scientific catalog is pretty limited. 
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> - Randy 
> 
>  
I don't have the address handy at the moment, but their phone number is (800) 
999-5459.
Regards,
Russ


russell_parrish@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov

If I can't be a big fish in this little pond,
I think I'll crawl up & try the shore.



From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 23 00:54:48 EST 1994
Article: 16 of rec.ponds
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From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Date: 22 Dec 1994 13:31:58 GMT
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Jonathan E. Feinstein (jfeinstein@umassd.edu) wrote:

[snip]

:     However, I do keep the filter going all winter (the fish have to fend for 
: themselves foodwise though). The warm weather configuration has the pump 
: sending the water over a series of rocks to simulate a natural spring, but in
: the winter I move the pump from the bottom to a shelf only 15 inches deep
: and attach a fountain tube (open-ended, no fountain head)that reaches just 
: an inch below the surface. This keeps a hole open in the ice throughout
: most of the SE New England winter. During particularly cold weather a dome of
: ice will form over the bubbling water, looking it look much like an old-
: fashioned coffee percolator, but a sharp blow with a crow bar will shatter 
: this dome and some winters even that is not necessary.

Hmmm....doesn't your filter need cleaning during the winter. I gave up on 
climbing into the pond when the water is belo 40 degrees -- even with 
waders on it's torture. I used to come out with my forearms blue up to 
the elbows. A friend once commented that it looked as if I'd lost 
something of value in one of those chemical toilets on an airplane and 
reached in to retrieve it.

--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 23 00:54:49 EST 1994
Article: 17 of rec.ponds
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From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 22 Dec 1994 13:36:51 GMT
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Timothy Strickland (tstrickl@grits) wrote: : Thanks for all of the
suggestions, here in North Central Florida I should not have to worry
about freezing temps often. I have decided to use a liner. I am preparing
the sight now and looking for a good strong liner. The only major problem
I am looking at now is the possibility of tree roots eventually cutting
into the liner. The sight I am looking at is not directly near a tree, but
largeoaks have a habit of sending out LONG STRONG roots. I should start
the digging process on Monday. Wish me l uck : , and again, Thank You for
all the suggestions. 

After diggin, before lining, call a couple of carpet stores and find out 
where they're doing carpet replacement jobs. Get out to a site and 
they'll let you take away as much used carpet as you like -- free of 
charge (at least the guys I called let me have it for nothing.)
Use the carpet as a sub-liner. You can even go to multiple layers if you 
get enough of the stuff. Just make sure you search carefully for any 
tacks or nails.
The backing is pretty much impenetrable, even for oak roots. It also 
makes it easier to walk on the slippery liner when you go in to do 
cleanups because you have a sponginess that your foot sinks into.


--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com Fri Dec 23 00:54:50 EST 1994
Article: 18 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell.uml.edu!vtc.tacom.army.mil!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!news
From: ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com (Pete Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Glad to see rec.ponds
Date: 22 Dec 1994 14:15:07 GMT
Organization: General Motors
Lines: 43
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dc1lb$koh@rcsuna.gmr.com>
Reply-To: ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.cs.gmr.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Just a quick note to say our mailtool finally posted that the long-awaited
rec.ponds newsgroup was on the net and available for posting.  

I'm more of the builder.  My wife is the grower.  She manages the water plant
area for the local greenhouse, and has done so for the past 4 yrs, (having 
transplanted herself from african violets).  We've had water gardens at our
house*(s) for the past 20+ yrs.   At the moment we have a small one (appx
5 x 10 ft x 2 deep) which is connected by a waterfall (over a retaining wall)
>from  an oil tank (cut crosswise at about 2/3 its original width), which in turn
fed by a stream running out of an old wheelbarrow body the kids found. (they 
designed and installed the stream when they were in their pre-teens).

The newest pond is about 12 x 20 ft, with a shelf and both 2 and 3 ft depths.
Both ponds use a rubber liner.  The large pond liner is extended into a small
marsh garden (about 18 in deep).  The remaining 1/3 of the old old tank is in
the basement and is used for overwintering the non-tropicals and a few of the 
fish.

During the winter all the tropicals are crowded into the deep end of the large
pond.  When there is ice on the surface, I run the pump without a fountain, just
a bare 1/2 in copper pipe to the surface to maintain an open area for aeration 
for the fish.  (without the aeration, we felt the 2 months of solid ice (6 in 
thick) would suffocate the fish).   

One idea i'd like to try, rather than run the pump, would be to run an airstone
at the bottom to keep an area of the surface open.  What are other peoples 
experiences?   Even the pump eventually froze over in a dome of ice that
was 12 inches high, and had to be continuously re-opened.

By the way,  This is Thursday 12/22 and I will be receiving the newsgroup only 
thru tomorrow, until after the holiday break.  Our site only keeps 3 days worth
of messages, so if you reply, I'd appreciate you posting both a "followup" in
rec.ponds and also a copy as a reply directly to me. (email is not purged like 
the newgroups).

We look forward to a lot of good info exchange, (and I hope we don't get a lot
of people p*ssing up the traffic as we've already seen happen once).   One way to
stiffle those folks is to ignor them, don't even think of posting a reply.

Pete Townsend    Rochester Hills, Michigan





From stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil Fri Dec 23 00:54:51 EST 1994
Article: 19 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 22 Dec 1994 09:30:11 -0500
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3dc2hjINNahr@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: oasys.dt.navy.mil
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In rec.ponds, epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:
>Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

Amen to that! What a great holiday gift. My thanks to all those who
helped make this possible.

No ducks here either (fortunately ;-), but more shubunkins then I can
count.

Hope everyone has a great holiday! - Bill
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |                        |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 859            |  Get well soon Ernie   |
(410) 293-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |    and Page            |
_________________________________________________|________________________|


From joetodd@teleport.com Fri Dec 23 00:54:53 EST 1994
Article: 21 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!news.teleport.com!news.teleport.com!not-for-mail
From: joetodd@teleport.com (Joseph L. Todd)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 22 Dec 1994 07:26:44 -0800
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3dc5rk$4dk@sandra.teleport.com>
References: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu> <carienix-211294152544@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandra.teleport.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I agree.  Check your local codes, and check with your insurance agent to 
see what your legal and financial exposure is, even assuming you meet the 
building codes.  No one wants to experience this type of tragedy, but the 
potential is obvious.

In my area, any pond over 18 inches deep needs to be contained by a 6 
foot high fence with a lockable gate, which I believe is the same as for 
swimming pools.  I think the term is "attractive nuisance".

My ponds are all about 15 inches deep.  There aren't any small children 
living in the area, but I've alerted neighbors anyway so that visitors, 
grandchildren, etc. won't wander in for a too-close look.

Take good precautions then enjoy your pond!!!
-- 
joetodd@teleport.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-14400, N81)


From jgill@kean.ucs.mun.ca Fri Dec 23 00:54:54 EST 1994
Article: 22 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!leif!jgill
From: jgill@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: fishing survey
Date: 22 Dec 94 12:00:12 -0230
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Lines: 134
Message-ID: <1994Dec22.120012.1@leif>
NNTP-Posting-Host: leif.ucs.mun.ca
Status: RO
X-Status: 

NEWFOUNDLAND, CANADA, OUTDOORS  
CAMPING, CANOEING AND FISHING QUESTIONNAIRE
MARKET SURVEY

     We are planning a new business venture and would like to
Ask you a few questions about your sporting interests and your
opinion on a planned inland fishing, canoeing, hiking, camping
service in Newfoundland Canada.

     Would you kindly take a moment to complete this survey and
send your reply and any suggestions or questions you have to
jgill@kean.ucs.mun.ca.

     The proposed trip will take place at Ten Mile Pond, located
360 km west of St. John's, Newfoundland Canada.  Depending on
which type of trip you choose you could start at TEN MILE POND
and travel through several inland waterways, portaging several
times (in season), eventually reaching the ocean.  During this
trip you would have travelled a distance of between 40 and 100
miles.

     During this trip you can fish for salmon and several kinds
of trout.  During this trip you could also hunt for several kinds
of water-foul, partridge and big game (bear and Moose), in
season.
 
Meals and equipment(except sleeping bag) provided.

     You will arrive at a inland lodge the first night of the
expedition and will be briefed on the country's terrain and water
ways.  At the same time this will allow you to become acquainted
with the fellow adventurers and guides.

     Please indicate your responses with a check on the line
provided.


1. a) How old are you? ___________
   b) Are you male or female?____________(optional)

2.   Have you ever participated in a canoe/camping trip before?

     ______
                If YES, go to question 3.
                If NO, go to question 6.


3.  If YES, please specify the location?

               ___________________________________


4.  What did you enjoy the most?
               
               ___________________________________


5.  What did you enjoy the least?

               ___________________________________


6.  Would you be interested in a canoe/camping trip in Central
Newfoundland, Canada?
                         _______

              
    If NO, please do not continue with this survey, please
forward it to JGILL@kean.ucs.mun.ca.  Thank-You for your time.



7.  Are you a member of a group or organization?

     _____________


    If NO, go to question 11.
    If YES, go to question 8.

8.  What is the name of your group?

               Please specify ___________________


9. How many members are in your group?

               ____________________


10.  Would this group be interested in our services?

               YES _____
               NO _____
               NOT SURE _____


11.  Please indicate the type of trip you would be most           
     interested in

               1 day               _____
               1 day/1 night       _____
               2 days/2 nights     _____
               3 days/3 nights     _____
               4 days/4 nights     _____
               A week or more      _____

12.  Would you be interested in having transportation to and from 
     the start site once you reach Newfoundland, if you do not
     already live here?

               YES ____
               NO ____

13.  Please rank the following activities that you would like to  
     participate in on the canoe/camping trip.         
     1 being the most important, 2 being the next most important, 
     and so on.

               Salmon Fishing _____
               Trouting _____
               Forest & Wildlife Observation _____
               Water Safety _____
               Hiking _____
               Wilderness Survival _____
               Orienteering (Map & Compass Work) _____ 
               Camp Fire Activities _____
               Other ________________________ _____

Thank you very much for your time!!!

Sincerely,

J B Gill


From eshafer@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM Fri Dec 23 00:54:56 EST 1994
Article: 24 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!news.sesqui.net!uuneo.neosoft.com!Starbase.NeoSoft.COM!not-for-mail
From: eshafer@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Eddie Shafer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: LillyPons Address?
Date: 22 Dec 1994 10:10:22 -0600
Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services   +1 713 684 5969
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3dc8de$6ej@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
References: <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: starbase.neosoft.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I've seen some references to a company called LillyPons.
>Can somebody post their address/phone number?  Maybe this can make
>it into the FAQ.

You can reach Lilypons at (800) 765-5459 and have them send you a catalog.  
Some of their stuff is priced high but they have several good sales throughout 
the year.


-- 
Thanks!
  
--------------------------------------------------
  Eddie Shafer         |  Exxon Co. USA
        (713) 656-9667 |  P.O. Box 2180 -- KT 1390
  Fax : (713) 656-4796 |  Houston, TX 77252-2180
  Inet: eshafer@starbase.neosoft.com
--------------------------------------------------


From Quentin.Hordle@UK.Sun.COM Fri Dec 23 00:54:56 EST 1994
Article: 25 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM!dragons_lair!quentin
From: quentin@dragons_lair.uk.sun.com (Quentin Hordle - Sun UK - )
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Submersible water pumps?
Date: 22 Dec 1994 10:59:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dbm60$hq6@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>
References: <3das6f$nhq@nic.umass.edu>
Reply-To: Quentin.Hordle@UK.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dragons_lair.uk.sun.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Having only installed my pond this year, I read contradicting reports about submersible pumps.
	Should they stay in the pond through the winter?
	If so, should they be used intermittantly to clear them out?
	Or, should they be taken out of the water until spring?
	
	TIA
	Quentin


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 23 00:54:57 EST 1994
Article: 26 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond liners
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 10:42:18 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <carienix-221294104219@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <trg1.48.08AF7D4E@ins.infonet.net> <3dajqs$fga@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <3dajqs$fga@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
wrote:

> on Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:30:33 cdt Tim Prachar wrote in rec.ponds:
> > To those looking for a "rubber" pond liner, I would suggest getting the 
> > material used for rubber-roofing.  Actually it is neoprene.  I have found it 
> 
> any one have a feel for toxicity levels of neoprene? other than that
> question, it sounds perfect
> 
I don't think there is a problem with the neoprene itself, but you need to
rince it very well to remove the powder that they put on the keep it from
sticking to itself in the roll.  This is toxic to fish (usually, depending
on what they happened to have used).  


From robert_mcleod@jhuapl.edu Fri Dec 23 00:54:58 EST 1994
Article: 27 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!lamont!news
From: robert_mcleod@jhuapl.edu
Subject: pond safety issues
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-ID: <1994Dec22.160541.7345@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
Sender: news@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 17:55:48 GMT
Lines: 19
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Ever since we bought our first house, i have wanted to put a pond in our yard.  
Unfortunately, my wife has never approved of the idea, and consequently, i have 
no pond in my yard.  Her concern is that one of our kids, or a neighbors' kid, 
is going to fall in and drown!  She claims "The law requires that pools be 
fenced in, and it should require that ponds be fenced in for the same reasons!" 
 I dont want to fence in our pond because it will detract from the pond, and it 
would be costly, and it still won't protect OUR kids from any dangers that a 
pond may pose.  

Have any of you pond enthusiasts out there ever encountered any safety problems 
with your ponds?

How have you dealt with these issues, or How have you convinced others that 
there is are safety issues?

Thanks in advance for any insights offerred,
Bob
  


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 23 00:54:59 EST 1994
Article: 28 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 10:45:50 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <carienix-221294104550@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <trg1.50.08BC5AE0@ins.infonet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <trg1.50.08BC5AE0@ins.infonet.net>, trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim
Prachar) wrote:

> I'm curious as to how many other people are maintaining their ponds in the 
> winter.  Mostly, I'm curious about small ponds (mine is 800gal) where you can 
> have some control over nature's effects.  I'm located in central Iowa, so cold 
> weather (ice) is the issue.
> 
> I've wintered my fish outside for the last couple years (this is the third), 
> but have been too scared to let the water stay completely frozen over for more 
> than a few days at time.  I have bubbler at the deep end (3-feet) and a 
> bird-bath heater (250W) submerged just below the surface in an attempt to 
> maintain an area of open water.  Using the bubbler alone ($10 total cost from 
> WalMart, under a bucket for weather protection) only results in dome of ice 
> with air underneath it, but no open water.  The combination of the heater and 
> the bubbler works pretty well up until multiple days of single-digit 
> temperatures.  I realize that the heater probably runs continously, but I'm 
> not trying to heat the whole pond, only enough for a circle of open water.
> 
> I'm content with the current system, but want to know if others out there have
> tried (successfully or not) to winter fish in similarly sized ponds without 
> trying to maintain open water?  I am assuming that oxygen starvation will 
> result because of the small size otherise.

In Illinois, I keep my air pump running all winter. I use a Tetra Luft pump
that can be put outside, has a dial for amount of air, and has plenty of
pressure to run a commercial sized air stone.  Not bad for $20 mail order!
Sometimes the top still freezes over, but the motion of the water will help
keep the open area under the ice larger (like stream that never freeze
completely, etc.).  It works well, even last year when it got to an
estimated -30 F.  I did not loose any fish in that pond, but another that
has no electic to it, froze solid.  I won't say any more about that other
than it was not fun to clean out in the spring.  (It is where I had put all
of my koi for the winter).


From aalund@unlinfo.unl.edu Fri Dec 23 00:55:00 EST 1994
Article: 29 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!newspump.wustl.edu!crcnis3.unl.edu!unlinfo.unl.edu!aalund
From: aalund@unlinfo.unl.edu (adrian lund)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Interesting bridge
Date: 22 Dec 1994 17:24:44 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3dccos$p4o@crcnis3.unl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I am very excited to see rec.ponds and hope it is very rewarding for 
all of us.  The director of my department bought a house here in 
Lincoln that had a circular pond (approx 175 feet dia) with a mound
shaped island (fifty feet dia) in the middle.  What is interesting
is that the bridge is two sections of pre-stressed concrete slabs
that rest with one end each on a bank and the other share the top
of a cassion in the middle.  The bridge is about 10 feet off the
water and is covered with a roof and cedar shakes with open sides.
  What makes it fun is that the center of each section is surprisingly
springy and is a fun (far enough away from the water to aviod most 
mosquitos) to fish off of.  I am posting because I think that this 
idea could be adapted fairly easily to most pond /island situations
and you might get lucky to find a contractor or pre-fab concrete firm
with an orphan laying around for a few bucks.  
These are my observations only and I am not an engineer so if you 
end up with a miniature Tacoma Narrows don't blame me.
 
--
Adrian A. Lund    "Norseman at large"   *****************************
graduate student biological sciences    ** "A Lutefisk is Forever" **
aalund@unlinfo.unl.edu                  **             Da Beers    **
RLP (real live person) 402.472.6243     *****************************


From dwagn02@unix.cc.emory.edu Fri Dec 23 00:55:01 EST 1994
Article: 30 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!news.cc.emory.edu!dwagn02
From: dwagn02@unix.cc.emory.edu (Richard L Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 22 Dec 1994 18:09:20 GMT
Organization: Emory University
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dcfcg$kb@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu>
References: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: larry-le0.cc.emory.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Butch Bowley (Butch.Bowley@TI.Com) wrote:
: I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres.  I would like to put about a 1/2 acre pond and am concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience controlling these pests?


: Cheers
: butch

Yeah, ship em to me! Snakes and turtles belong in ponds.
Dick W


From peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com Fri Dec 23 00:55:02 EST 1994
Article: 31 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!ames!enews.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!ford.wpd.sgi.com!peteo
From: peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter Orelup)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 22 Dec 1994 18:17:17 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 47
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dcfrd$n4f@fido.asd.sgi.com>
References: <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu> <3d9sur$1pu@fido.asd.sgi.com> <3danhk$nmi@news.alaska.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ford.wpd.sgi.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <3danhk$nmi@news.alaska.edu>, paul@gi.alaska.edu (Paul Delys)
writes:
|> In article <3d9sur$1pu@fido.asd.sgi.com>, peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com
|> (Peter Orelup) 
|> says:
|> >I have a pond about the size you're planning: irregular shape,
|> 18'x11', 3 feet
|> >deep.  I used a 36 mil butyl rubber liner with nylon fibers for
|> reinforcement.
|> >I've been very happy with the result.  I used the same material for
|> the 20'
|> >stream that empties into the pond.  No leaks, no problems.  This
|> material is
|> >said to last for at least 20 years, even when exposed to direct
|> sun.
|> >
|> 
|> Pete,
|> 
|> Do you know how well this material holds up in extreme cold, say
|> -50F? Here in 
|> Fairbanks our temp drops that low for a few weeks every year and I'm
|> wondering if 
|> the liner would have to be pulled in the fall or if it could
|> overwinter in place.
|> 

I don't know, but I bet you can find out from the source:

	New World Mfg.
	Cloverdale, CA
	(707) 894-5257

They sell a variety of liner materials, and will build a liner to your
size specifications by RF welding pieces together from standard size rolls.
I would guess you'll want to find a closer source, since the liners are
expensive to ship, but you could certainly get some information about the
material from New World over the phone.  They'll also send you small material
samples through the mail for no charge.

Pete


------
Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875



From nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk Fri Dec 23 00:55:03 EST 1994
Article: 33 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.tele.fi!sunic!news.uni-c.dk!inet!nbduck
From: nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk (S|ren Erichsen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 08:20:22 GMT
Organization: News Server at UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education.
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Woody Harper (woody@news.enet.net) wrote:
: Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
: : Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

: Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase 40
: acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
: am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
: resource?

Yo! I got a pond back in wundeeland, where I use my rod and reel to get 
something going. Nice pond that one, but I need a place to stay for the 
winter.

	the (Gone South) Duck



From woody@news.enet.net Fri Dec 23 00:55:06 EST 1994
Article: 36 of rec.ponds
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From: woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 13:51:13 -0700
Organization: Evergreen Communications, Phoenix, Arizona
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Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
: Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase 40
acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
resource?
-- 
==============================================================================
"  I'm such a stooge...." - jms
Sysop: Memory Alpha BBS - A Yugo on the Information Superhighway
+1 602 955 6012


From drdoug@ripco.com Fri Dec 23 00:55:07 EST 1994
Article: 37 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: drdoug@ripco.com (Doug Huebner)
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Message-ID: <D18J1I.63x@rci.ripco.com>
Sender: usenet@rci.ripco.com (Net News Admin)
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Tim Prachar (trg1@ins.infonet.net) wrote:
: I'm curious as to how many other people are maintaining their ponds in the 
: winter.  Mostly, I'm curious about small ponds (mine is 800gal) where you can 
: have some control over nature's effects.  I'm located in central Iowa, so cold 
: weather (ice) is the issue.

: I've wintered my fish outside for the last couple years (this is the third), 
: but have been too scared to let the water stay completely frozen over for more 
: than a few days at time.  I have bubbler at the deep end (3-feet) and a 
: bird-bath heater (250W) submerged just below the surface in an attempt to 
: maintain an area of open water.  Using the bubbler alone ($10 total cost from 
: WalMart, under a bucket for weather protection) only results in dome of ice 
: with air underneath it, but no open water.  The combination of the heater and 
: the bubbler works pretty well up until multiple days of single-digit 
: temperatures.  I realize that the heater probably runs continously, but I'm 
: not trying to heat the whole pond, only enough for a circle of open water.

: I'm content with the current system, but want to know if others out there have
: tried (successfully or not) to winter fish in similarly sized ponds without 
: trying to maintain open water?  I am assuming that oxygen starvation will 


I live in the Chicago area where it gets reasonably [unreasonably?] cold.
We run the pump all winter with two bubblers near the surface. I also have
a fish tank areator that I run to assure an fresh air supply in the water.
Once in a while the whole pond will freeze over, but a bucket of hot watr
on the ice above the bubbler and areator opens the ice. The water only freezes 
to a depth of about 4-6 inches. We do not use a heater and the fish have 
survived quite well. My brother in law tried a trough [sp?] heater from the
farm store. It kept the water open but was expensive to run. He just uses a 
bubbler approach now. He lives in the Milwaukee area.

Doug
.


From segura@rice.edu Fri Dec 23 00:55:07 EST 1994
Article: 38 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!newsfeed.rice.edu!rice!snowy.owlnet.rice.edu!segura
From: segura@rice.edu (Chad James Segura)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Edging
Date: 21 Dec 1994 14:50:39 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3d9fc0$63t@larry.rice.edu>
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Hi,

I'm building a small backyard pond (50 FT2 area) and need
help with the edging.  Awhile back someone on rec.gardens
wrote how to edge the pond so one couldn't see the liner.
Anybody have a copy of that to post?  It was the beginning
of what looked like a ponds faq.  Thanks.

Chad



From tstrickl@grits Fri Dec 23 00:55:08 EST 1994
Article: 39 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu!grits!tstrickl
From: tstrickl@grits (Timothy Strickland)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 21 Dec 1994 15:03:40 GMT
Organization: Valdosta State InterNetNews site
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You do not know how pleased I was to be prompted for this group.

I am in the planning stages for constructing a garden pond for my wife. I have  looked at all of the prefab ponds available at our local Lowes store, but none  of them are as large as I am looking for.

I am planning an irregular shaped, kind of a double kidney, pond about 20 x 12  and 3 to 4 foot deep. I am unsure if I should use a lining or concrete. I have  experiance with concrete, but I am not sure about the expence of such a large   project.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

T.W. Strickland



From bob1@cos.com Fri Dec 23 00:55:09 EST 1994
Article: 40 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.globalcom.net!usenet
From: bob1@cos.com
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 14:59:22 GMT
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Lines: 46
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d9fsa$msd@goodnews.globalcom.net>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7ngt$qq0@nonews.col.hp.com>
Reply-To: bob1@cos.com
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In <3d7ngt$qq0@nonews.col.hp.com> howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel) writes:

>I am here.    

>My wife and I have about a dozen Koi and some dozens of fancy goldfish.
>In the summer we keep them in outdoor above ground ponds.  This winter
>they are indoors in various aquariums with continous drip water changing.
>I have a small few pond plants in the tanks which I hope to put outside
>in the spring.

Why do you bring them indoors? Our koi pond is about 12 x 10 x 3 to 4
feet (l x w x d) and houses about 18 koi varying in length from 5
to 9 inches, with one big 14 inch white and orange one. We leave
them in the pond all winter (Maryland) with a stock tank heater
plugged into what is normally the pump outlet.

It freezes over, all but where the heater is, and this lets the
gasses out and oxygen in, never lost a fish due to winter yet.

For those looking forward to a pond, expect to work. Each
spring I have to pull the koi and put them in holding tanks
while I pump down the pond and scrub the liner. Since we 
are on a 300 foot deep well we just use pure well water to
refill the pond. I figure it is somewher between 600 and
800 gallons. 

Few books (at least around here) on koi ponds so I learned
some things the hard way. Koi get ich, which is basically
a water flea. They show uo as brown spots about 1/4" on
the fish. The itch causes the koi to leap out of the
water and fall against the edges of the pond, damaging
their scales on rocks and such. We lost a beautiful
black, gold, and orange koi of about 14 - 15 inches
to those damn things until I found something called
Slimeaway which not only settles small deritus 
floating in the water, but also kills off the ich.

I am beginning to consider selling off the koi and just
letting the pond fill up with lilies (I also leave the
hardy lilies in over winter - they are growing like
weeds). Pumping down that pond and jumping in to
scrub it down is getting old - and so am I :-(.

Bob




From bob1@cos.com Fri Dec 23 00:55:10 EST 1994
Article: 41 of rec.ponds
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From: bob1@cos.com
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 21:04:07 GMT
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d7gs7$924@goodnews.globalcom.net>
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In <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:

>Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

No ducks, but about 18 koi of varying size and color.



From dwheeler@leland.Stanford.EDU Fri Dec 23 00:55:11 EST 1994
Article: 43 of rec.ponds
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From: dwheeler@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Brockman Wheeler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 22:15:30 GMT
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3d7l22$15g@nntp.Stanford.EDU>
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In article <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net>,
Woody Harper <woody@news.enet.net> wrote:
>Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
>: Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?
>
>Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase 40
>acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
>am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
>resource?

Well, I have a heavily planted aquarium which is as close as I am likely
to get to having a pond before I finish my professional training...in 2003!
In the meantime I am looking forward to learning lots about these wonderful
human-made microhabitats.

David Wheeler




From mccann@mail.duke.edu Fri Dec 23 00:55:12 EST 1994
Article: 44 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!usenet
From: mccann@mail.duke.edu (John McCann)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Books
Date: 21 Dec 1994 15:25:59 GMT
Organization: Duke's Fuqua School of Business
Lines: 3
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I have been searching for books on pond construction but have not 
found anything in our local libraries (Durham, NC) or in the book 
stores.  Does anyone have a list of appropriate books?


From mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu Fri Dec 23 00:55:13 EST 1994
Article: 45 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!caen!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!ceres!mercer
From: mercer@ceres (Eric Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 21 Dec 94 10:24:46 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 29
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1994Dec21.102446@ceres>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net> <1994Dec20.165618@ceres> <3d7n75$gc4@pinyon.enet.net>
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In article <3d7n75$gc4@pinyon.enet.net>, woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper) writes:
> Eric Mercer (mercer@ceres) wrote:
> : In article <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net>, woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper) writes:
> : > Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
> : > : Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?
> : > 
> : > Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase
> : > 40
> : > acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
> : > am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
> : > resource?
> 
> : Well, my dream is to someday build a pond large enough to have an island
> : with a gazebo (sp?), with a little bridge leading to the island.
> :  - Maybe a drawbridge :) -
> 
> Hey, that actually sounds pretty terrific!  A small pier type arrangement
> with safety rails might be cool as well. Hmmm, time to break out the cad
> software and draw some pictures...
>
I also thought it would be neat to have a small floating platform 
(maybe at the end of that pier), where you could sit & feel the waves
moving under you. 
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
|Eric A. Mercer                                                  |
|mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu	CVRC, University of Pennsylvania |
|office: (215)662-7837                                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------


From carlson@newt.wri.com Fri Dec 23 00:55:15 EST 1994
Article: 47 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!wri!dragonfly.wri.com!carlson
From: carlson@newt.wri.com (Chris Carlson)
Subject: Urban micro wetlands
Message-ID: <CARLSON.94Dec21085506@newt.wri.com>
Sender: news@wri.com ( )
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Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
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I've long dreamed of having a natural wetland microcosmos in my yard.
As I look at potential houses of my own, I'm always thinking in the
back of my mind where I would put the pond.  Problem is, in this city
the neighbors can force you to remove water from your property at the
slightest suggestion that it could be a breeding ground for
mosquitoes.  I'd rather not have mosquitoes in my yard myself.  I'd
also rather have a pond than a slimy green pit.

Being a novice at ponding, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with
experience building and maintaining a tiny natural wetland (1) in the
midwest climate, (2) with natural predators that keep the mosquitoes
under control, (3) with good water quality.  If the pond is a very
small one, is it necessary to provide supplementary filtration or
oxygenation (e.g., powered by a pump) to maintain good water?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Carlson
User Interfaces Group
Wolfram Research, Inc.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tel (217) 398-0700        Fax (217) 398-0747     carlson@wri.com
----------------------------------------------------------------


From oaks@chmbp2.tamu.edu Fri Dec 23 12:59:53 EST 1994
Article: 48 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!chmbp2.tamu.edu!OAKS
From: oaks@chmbp2.tamu.edu (CHARLY)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: skeeters
Date: 21 Dec 1994 15:43:09 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Dept. Texas A&M Univ.
Lines: 9
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Reply-To: oaks@chmbp2.tamu.edu
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X-Status: 

What can I use in my pond to rid it of mosquitoes and wiqqlers (or
whatever their larvae are called. Don't wish to use insecticides
and Comets and mosquito donuts don't seem to work.

Anybody have a working solution?

Thanks

charly/oaks@chemvx.tamu.edu/TAMU Chemistry Department Electronic Shop


From snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca Fri Dec 23 12:59:54 EST 1994
Article: 49 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!snorth
From: snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca (Sheldon North)
Subject: Ponds as a fishing resource?
Message-ID: <Dec20.221438.42555@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 22:14:38 GMT
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net>
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Woody Harper (woody@news.enet.net) wrote:

: am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
: resource?

I thought about it, but it seems like too much work.  My pond is
only three to four thousand gallons, so I would have to aerate,
filter, change the water and feed the fish.  Since the pond
freezes 18 inches down I would also have to remove all but one or
two fish so that metabolites and waste gasses wouldn't build up
in the four months the pond is frozen.  I currently only have a
couple gold fish and some large mouth guppies.

For now I am happy with the pond establishing a equilibrium.  It
will be neat to see which bog plants survive the winter.


Sheldon,

Just a part time ponder :)


From jacqueg@teleport.com Fri Dec 23 12:59:55 EST 1994
Article: 50 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!news.teleport.com!ip-salem-22.teleport.com!user
From: jacqueg@teleport.com (Jacque Greenleaf)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Books
Date: 23 Dec 1994 04:27:15 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
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> John McCann (mccann@mail.duke.edu) wrote:
> : I have been searching for books on pond construction but have not 
> : found anything in our local libraries (Durham, NC) or in the book 
> : stores.  Does anyone have a list of appropriate books?

I like "Waterscaping" by Judy Glattstein, Garden Way Publishing. Probably
best for smaller backyard style ponds. Wonderful planting and construction
ideas.


From greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com Fri Dec 23 12:59:55 EST 1994
Article: 51 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!koriel!male.EBay.Sun.COM!antizen!greg
From: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Catfish, how small a pond??
Date: 20 Dec 1994 21:33:40 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
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How small can a pond be in order to raise catfish for food???

Greg





From woody@news.enet.net Fri Dec 23 12:59:56 EST 1994
Article: 52 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!maple.enet.net!not-for-mail
From: woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 15:52:21 -0700
Organization: Evergreen Communications, Phoenix, Arizona
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d7n75$gc4@pinyon.enet.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pinyon.enet.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Eric Mercer (mercer@ceres) wrote:
: In article <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net>, woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper) writes:
: > Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
: > : Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?
: > 
: > Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase
: > 40
: > acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
: > am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
: > resource?

: Well, my dream is to someday build a pond large enough to have an island
: with a gazebo (sp?), with a little bridge leading to the island.
:  - Maybe a drawbridge :) -

Hey, that actually sounds pretty terrific!  A small pier type arrangement
with safety rails might be cool as well. Hmmm, time to break out the cad
software and draw some pictures...

: Thank god rec.ponds is here.  Now maybe I can live through the experiences
: of those who have ponds - or at least a yard to put a pond in :(
: -- 

-- 
==============================================================================
"  I'm such a stooge...." - jms
Sysop: Memory Alpha BBS - A Yugo on the Information Superhighway
+1 602 955 6012


From exudms@exu.ericsson.se Fri Dec 23 12:59:57 EST 1994
Article: 53 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!news
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Small Pond
Date: 20 Dec 1994 23:01:30 GMT
Organization: Ericsson North America Inc.
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
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Status: RO
X-Status: 


Hi,

Last August I built a nice small pond in my garden which some people have
said it to be a good size, about 13'X 13'x 2.5 deep. I used a liner and have
a large pump and filter in it also. It is doing quite well with some small
koi that I introduced a few months ago and it looks good, but it still has
a "new" look to it. I was trying to make it look as natural as possible.

I was wondering how other people's older more established ponds are doing, 
in look and in function. The only thing that bothered me a little was last
month when I had a lot of falling leaves from trees that were getting into it 
and clogging the intake valve. Do you have problems with the elements like
debris and runoff from heavy rains? Do you have or attract birds, frogs, 
turtles, snakes?

I did see a few more mosquitos this year, but overall I'm very happy with
my project.

Thanks,
David



From drescher@metro.or.gov Fri Dec 23 12:59:58 EST 1994
Article: 54 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ramp.metro.or.gov!drescher
From: drescher@metro.or.gov (Dave Drescher)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Building a Wetland
Date: 20 Dec 1994 21:43:56 GMT
Organization: METRO
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3d7j6s$r4v@ramp.metro.or.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: varmit.metro.or.gov
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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We have just purchased a new house that has pond potential.  The home we sold
had a pond with herons, wood ducks, beaver, cutthroat trout, kingfishers; it
was great, but we needed more room.  What is the best source for design, etc
of ponds?  My post says Wetland because our interest is in making something
that does not look manmade.  Thanks for any info!!

Dave
===================================================================
David Drescher                     Work: (503)797-1586
GIS Analyst                              drescher@metro.or.gov
Metro                              Home: kestrel242@aol.com
600 NE Grand Ave
Portland, Oregon  97232-2736       Views and opinions are my own.
===================================================================


From stoll@OCF.Berkeley.EDU Fri Dec 23 12:59:59 EST 1994
Article: 55 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stoll
From: stoll@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Cliff Stoll)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Volume & Surface area of a pond
Date: 20 Dec 1994 21:56:22 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <3d7ju6$78d@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: headcrash-ether.berkeley.edu
Summary: how to find volume and area of a curved pond
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Well, to start off rec.ponds, here's a short paper I wrote.
It's pretty obvious stuff, but might be useful to some.


It's handy to know how much water's in your pond.  
You know how many fish it can support, how to dilute any chemicals, 
and how much filtering you need.

Swimming pools are easy to measure -- rectangular sides and bottoms.  
A 20 foot by 30 foot pool has 600 square feet of surface area.  
If it's 4 feet deep, it holds 2400 cubic feet of water.  
At 7.48 gallons per cubic foot, that's about 18,000 gallons.

But what about a curved, kidney shaped pond?  
Not only are the sides curved, but the bottom isn't flat.  
Compound curves, so easy to build, are tough to calculate.

Over a cream chese bagel, I pondered how to find the volume 
of my oddly shaped pool, as well as its surface area.

Well, you can always measure the depth of your pond.  
Dunk a yardstick into the deepest place.  
When it's full, my pond's 20 inches deep.

That's a start.  Now what's its volume?  
Looking at my empty pond, I wondered.  
Hey - I can just count gallons as I fill it!  
Easy way:  first fill a 20 gallon garbage can, 
then pour the water into the pond.  Repeat, and tally the numbers.

Even easier:  my house is on the city water meter.  
I opened up the curbside meter box and wrote down the reading, 
then started the hose.  Water flows into the pond, the meter spins, 
and all's happy.  For highest accuracy, don't take a shower 
or do the laundry while filling the pond.

When the pond's full, the curbside meter says how much water's flowed in.  
Subtract the beginning meter reading from the end reading.  
Most meters read out in cubic feet, so multiply by 7.48 to get gallons.  
My water meter reports that my pond holds 70 cubic feet -- 
that's a bit over 500 gallons.

That's the total pond volume in gallons.  But what's the surface area?  
Here's the sneaky part.  
When your pond's almost full, stop the hose.  Measure the pond's depth.  
Write down the meter reading.  Then fill the pond exactly one inch deeper.  
Write down the second meter reading.

Subtract these two meter readings.  
This tells you how many cubic feet it took to raise your pond one inch.  
Multiply this number by twelve to get the area of your pond.

For instance, it took 7.0 cubic feet of water 
to raise the level of my pond one inch.  
That means my pond's surface area is 84 square feet.

Even if you don't have a water meter or can't drain your pond, 
you can still find the pond's surface area.  
Measure the pond's depth, then pour in a known volume of water.  
Measure the depth again.  The volume divided by the depth change 
gives you the surface area.  For instance, if your pond level rose 
half an inch after adding 20 gallons of water, 
it would have a surface area of 64 square feet.  
[20 gallons x (1 cubic foot/7.48 gallon) / 0.5 inch *(12 inches/foot)].

All this is is straightforward dimensional analysis -- a useful tool
in many places.

-Cliff Stoll  (please don't send me e-mail as I'm swamped)


From mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu Fri Dec 23 12:59:59 EST 1994
Article: 56 of rec.ponds
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From: mercer@ceres (Eric Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 94 16:56:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1994Dec20.165618@ceres>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net>
Reply-To: mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.med.upenn.edu
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net>, woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper) writes:
> Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
> : Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?
> 
> Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase 40
> acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
> am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
> resource?

Well, my dream is to someday build a pond large enough to have an island
with a gazebo (sp?), with a little bridge leading to the island.
 - Maybe a drawbridge :) -
Thank god rec.ponds is here.  Now maybe I can live through the experiences
of those who have ponds - or at least a yard to put a pond in :(
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
|Eric A. Mercer                                                  |
|mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu	CVRC, University of Pennsylvania |
|office: (215)662-7837                                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------


From molo2839@mary.cs.fredonia.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:01 EST 1994
Article: 57 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!penny!mary!molo2839
From: molo2839@mary.cs.fredonia.edu (brian p moloney)
Subject: Pond life
Message-ID: <1994Dec20.210355.5474@penny.cs.fredonia.edu>
Sender: news@penny.cs.fredonia.edu (News Administrator)
Organization: Math / CS, State Univ. of N. Y. College at Fredonia
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 21:03:55 GMT
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Hi!
 If this group is about ponds with fish and other good stuff
then here goes:

 My family has been keeping a pond for about a year now.  As 
far as ponds go that is probably not too long.  But we have done
well so far after a few problems.  Some of our fish became victims
of airborne predators.  They got the biggest fish of course.  But 
now that is under control for now.  If anybody wants to talk ponds
then write here!!  If this group is not about this type of ponds then
let me know


Brian Moloney
Internet: moloney2839@fredonia.edu
SUNY- College at Fredonia 
Fredonia, NY 14063



From rileyd@osshe.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:02 EST 1994
Article: 58 of rec.ponds
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From: rileyd@osshe.edu (David Riley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: new pond
Date: 20 Dec 1994 21:45:47 GMT
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This is a very timely newsgroup for me, since we just finished a pond on
the family farm.  It measures approx. 175' X 100' and was built to catch
seasonal runoff.  It was finished the 1st of Nov. and is now full to over
flowing.  I planted grass on the dam and other areas around it that were
disturbed by the dozer.  I was hoping that it would not rain to the extent
that great gobs of silt would be washed into it.  But, it did and it has
remained rather murky since filling.  I plan to dredge where possible when
the monsoon season ends next summer and replant the inflow areas to cut
down on erosion effects into the pond.  After the runoff subsides, are
there ways to speed settling of the suspended particulates?  A lot of the
runoff is clay type soil, which I have heard has a propensity to remain
suspended.  Thanks in advance for any insights.  


From howardr@col.hp.com Fri Dec 23 13:00:03 EST 1994
Article: 59 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hplabs!hplextra!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!howardr
From: howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 22:57:33 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 36
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References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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I am here.    

My wife and I have about a dozen Koi and some dozens of fancy goldfish.
In the summer we keep them in outdoor above ground ponds.  This winter
they are indoors in various aquariums with continous drip water changing.
I have a small few pond plants in the tanks which I hope to put outside
in the spring.



Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
: Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

: -- 
: Don Burns                         | Motorola E-Mail: epur01
: Motorola Inc.                     |     Internet:epur01@email.mot.com
: North American Radio Systems Divn |          Voice: 305-475-5518
: Plantation, FL  U.S.A.            |            Fax: 305-475-6095
:             
: X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/

--
              __          ______________________________________
             / /\
            / /  \        Howard Rebel
           /_/ /\ \       Software Engineer
    __     \ \ \ \ \      
   /_/\  __ \ \ \/ /      Hewlett-Packard Company
   \ \ \/ /\ \ \  /       1900 Garden of the Gods Road
    \ \ \/  \ \ \ \       Colorado Springs, Colorado 80907
     \ \  /\ \ \ \ \      
      \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \     Email:    howardr@col.hp.com
       \ \ \_\/  \_\/     Phone:    Telnet / (719) 598-1795
        \ \ \             Fax:      719-590-5701
         \_\/             



From econway@nmsu.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:04 EST 1994
Article: 60 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!dns1.NMSU.Edu!econway
From: econway@nmsu.edu (Eugenia D. Conway)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 23:21:14 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d7ota$cue@dns1.NMSU.Edu>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7gs7$924@goodnews.globalcom.net>
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bob1@cos.com wrote:
: In <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:

: >Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

: No ducks, but about 18 koi of varying size and color.

Left my pond with my old house. The goldfish had just spawned. Now I have
to start over in a new location. Can't wait til spring to get started

-----------------------------------------
Jean Conway
econway@nmsu.edu
-----------------------------------------


From gwoods@nyx.cs.du.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:04 EST 1994
Article: 61 of rec.ponds
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From: gwoods@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gary  Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 20 Dec 1994 16:39:37 -0700
Organization: University of Denver, Math/CS Dept.
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epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:

>Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

>-- 
>Don Burns                         | Motorola E-Mail: epur01
>Motorola Inc.                     |     Internet:epur01@email.mot.com
>North American Radio Systems Divn |          Voice: 305-475-5518
>Plantation, FL  U.S.A.            |            Fax: 305-475-6095
>            
>X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/
Well, in a word, yes!  Although the season isn't as long in upstate NY!
I have a 2/3AC pond, infested with large-mouth  bass, and assorted hardy 
lilies in plastic pails (currently in the cold cellar for the winter).

I just tell people I have a really big swimming pool that one dare not
skinny-dip in.!~

Gary Woods




From wrt@acsu.buffalo.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:05 EST 1994
Article: 62 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: wrt@acsu.buffalo.edu (William R. Tallmadge)
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Message-ID: <D14rzt.266@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu
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	...got an old farm pond or two stocked with largemouth bass
& bluegills.  lessee...   deerflies and horseflies divebomb you
but you can always duck under;  flatworms (we used to call them
bloodsuckers) stick harmlessly on your ankles; algae can get like
jello if there is run-off from the fertilized fields in the water
table; there's the mucky part and the rocky part.  But it's all
worth it becuase it beats a pool all hollow for about 4 weeks
out of the year.   Water is as silky as velvet and perfumed by
a heavenly concoction of pollens (hope you're not allergic!).
It doesn't hurt your eyes and I drank an ocean  of it when a youth
without more than a burp or two.

	...and that's just the spring...


-- 
    <o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o|||o>\/\/\/\/\/\<o|||o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o>
    <o>\/\/\/\/\/\<o|||o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o|||o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o>
    <o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o|||o>\/\/\/\/\/\<o|||o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o>
    <o>\/\/\/\/\/\<o|||o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o|||o>/\/\/\/\/\/<o>


From stevesch@gate.net Fri Dec 23 13:00:06 EST 1994
Article: 63 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tequesta.gate.net!sysop
From: stevesch@gate.net  (Steve Schneider/FogBottomPond)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: And for some...
Date: 21 Dec 1994 00:43:10 GMT
Organization: The Mists of FogBottomPond
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d7tmu$9g6@tequesta.gate.net>
Reply-To: stevesch@gate.net (Steve Schneider/FogBottomPond)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hopi.gate.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.07
Status: RO
X-Status: 

..there's not yet room or time for the real thing so we find a 
quiet corner of our mind and come up with virtual pondage... such 
as FogBottomPond. <g>

Steve... "This newsgroup is a pleasant surprise..."

:: The Mists of FogBottomPond  <http://www.gate.net/~stevesch>  ::




From mike.ward@bt-sys.bt.co.uk Fri Dec 23 13:00:07 EST 1994
Article: 64 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!bt!hfnet!usenet
From: mike.ward@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Mike Ward)
Subject: uk person needs advice
Message-ID: <D19Gx4.MLy@hfnet.bt.co.uk>
Sender: usenet@hfnet.bt.co.uk (News Admin)
Organization: Intelligent Systems Unit, BT Plc
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X-Status: 

Hi,

Nice to see this pond feature.

I need some advice from a cleaver contributer.

I live in England and I have a moderate sized pond (for the UK) of 9 feet
6 feet x 2.5 feet deep. My problem is that when it rains - which
in England happens a lot! the pond quickly fills up. Now at the moment
I get out there with a bucket and empty the exess down the drain.
Does anyone have a cleaverer solution to this as I'm starting to get too
fit for my own good!

thanks

Mike


From gilman@ocean.bwc.org Fri Dec 23 13:00:08 EST 1994
Article: 65 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!news.kei.com!wang!news
From: gilman@ocean.bwc.org (Mark Gilman)
Subject: Re: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Organization: Baha'i World Centre
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 10:39:14 GMT
Message-ID: <3de9cj$b6o@bwc.bwc.org>
References: <hendy-2112941033320001@macip-dialup-046.cisco.com>
Sender: news@wang.com
Lines: 23
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hendy (hendy@cisco.com) wrote:

: Enough about my parents' pond (Yes, I'll get to the point already!).  What
: *I'm* looking for is suggestions for someone who LOVES ponds, but is stuck
: with a decent-sized balcony instead of a backyard.  The complex I live in
: is nicely landscaped, and there are lots of little waterways running about
: - completely chemically sterilized, of course.  Doesn't seem to bother the
: ducks, but there's no other life out there!

: I don't want a fishtank (I don't want to give my landlords the extra $200
: security deposit "in case the tank leaks").  I *do* want something that
: can hold a few small goldfish in addition to selected plant life.  I'd
: also like it to NOT look like a large plastic bucket with a few plants
: stuck in it (the best idea I could come up with).

There was some interesting discussion of wooden barrels being used to 
raise fish fry and plants posted to rec.aquaria (or perhaps it was the
aquarium listserv) some months back.  It sounded intriguing.  I will 
look to see whether I saved that thread.  Or perhaps someone out there 
has experience with this approach and could comment on how the barrels 
are prevented from leaking, etc.

                               Mark


From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 23 13:00:09 EST 1994
Article: 66 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!caen!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!omni!SirWill1
From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Date: 21 Dec 1994 01:33:57 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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exudms@exu.ericsson.se wrote:

: I was wondering how other people's older more established ponds are doing, 
: in look and in function. The only thing that bothered me a little was last
: month when I had a lot of falling leaves from trees that were getting into it 
: and clogging the intake valve. Do you have problems with the elements like
: debris and runoff from heavy rains? Do you have or attract birds, frogs, 
: turtles, snakes?

We put our pond to bed for the winter by arranging a frame made of 1/2 
inch PVC tubing that arches up over it in a semi circle. Over this we put 
bird netting which we weight down around the edges with the bricks we use 
to elevate the lily pots when the pond is active. The leaves blow off the 
net and there's no debris at all. We also turn off the filter and stop 
feeding the fish around the time the insect choir stops blasting away all 
night which, here in Eastern PA, is mid to late September.

--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From bsack@mindspring.com Fri Dec 23 13:00:13 EST 1994
Article: 67 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!nntp.mindspring.com!bsack.mindspring.com!bsack
From: Brian M. Sack <bsack@mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 02:22:15 GMT
Organization: mindspring
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Distribution: world
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References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <D14rzt.266@acsu.buffalo.edu> <3d7ota$cue@dns1.NMSU.Edu> <3d7pvp$c60@nyx.cs.du.edu>
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In article <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> Don Burns,
epur01@email.mot.com writes:
>Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

Wow, the Internet really does have everything. I'm in the process of
bying a house, and a pond will be my little stress reliever activity.
I'll have to check back here for everything there is to know about Koi.

-B.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Brian Sack																									           bsack@mindspring.com
Atlanta, GA, USA     http:/www.mindspring.com/users/bsack/lam.html
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From sfo@bu.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:15 EST 1994
Article: 68 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.bu.edu!sfo
From: sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond buried
Date: 23 Dec 1994 13:17:47 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3deilr$jpn@news.bu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acs3.bu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Many decades ago, my grandparents built
several attractive ponds around their cottage.
One in particular was about 4 feet deep with
a stone border (like a swimming pool) which
they filled with waterlilies and goldfish.
In the early '70s this pond was filled in, completely,
with sand. All you can see now is the stone border.
Should I try to bring it back?

Samme


From zoega@inet.uni-c.dk Fri Dec 23 13:00:16 EST 1994
Article: 69 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.uni-c.dk!inet!zoega
From: zoega@inet.uni-c.dk (Christian Zoega Jessen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond life
Date: 21 Dec 1994 01:38:41 GMT
Organization: News Server at UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3d80v2$p3b@news.uni-c.dk>
References: <1994Dec20.210355.5474@penny.cs.fredonia.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inet.uni-c.dk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

brian p moloney (molo2839@mary.cs.fredonia.edu) wrote:
: Some of our fish became victims
: of airborne predators.  They got the biggest fish of course.  But 
: now that is under control for now.  

I got a nice piece of advice how to protect my fish from seagulls some 20 
years ago and it has worked fine for me ever since: I put some plants in 
pots on a couple of big flat stones and elevate those stones about three 
inches over the bottom of the pond by placing them on other, smaller 
stones.  This creates a shelter and I have not lost a single fish for 
twenty years.  I don't know how the fish know it but as soon as a seagull 
approaches my pond all the fish disappear into those small caves 
immediately. 

Regards_______________________________________________________________
Christian Zoega Jessen |   Zoega Virksomhedsrådgivning   --  Sikkerhed
Kovangen 621           |   Zoega Management Consultant   --   Security
DK-3480 Fredensborg    |   Tel: +45 42 28 18 46   Fax: +45 42 28 53 46
Danmark _______________|_____________ zoega@inet.uni-c.dk ____________



From nikw@astro.ocis.temple.edu Fri Dec 23 13:00:17 EST 1994
Article: 70 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!astro.ocis.temple.edu!nikw
From: nikw@astro.ocis.temple.edu (glue baby)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: JOY!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 01:38:28 GMT
Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3d80uk$ltj@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu
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X-Status: 

I am happy now.  i am thinking about squishing my toesies in nice muck,
without any trash in it.  i have not caught a little wet squirmy or pinchy 
thing in years, and now i don't know how i managed to forget about
PONDS!!!!

ok, byebye

--
Here is the clee of the day:
Slowly but surely the lord of the lobsters grew a new bib.


From zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca Fri Dec 23 13:00:18 EST 1994
Article: 72 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!zaphod
From: zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pond safety issues
Date: 22 Dec 1994 18:21:26 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3dcg36$jm4@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
References: <1994Dec22.160541.7345@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.bcu.ubc.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

on Thu, 22 Dec 1994 17:55:48 GMT robert_mcleod@jhuapl.edu wrote in rec.ponds:

> How have you dealt with these issues, or How have you convinced others that 
> there is are safety issues?

my pond was 30" deep, 17 feet long and 6 feet wide with a bridge. that's
one hell of a hole. 

magi looked at it and said, very calmly, "yeah, you could drown in that..."

i was glad of the fences. you should be too.
--
Zaphod
I eat tofu, and I vote. -- White Wave


From snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca Fri Dec 23 13:00:19 EST 1994
Article: 73 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!snorth
From: snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca (Sheldon North)
Subject: Re: Building a Wetland
Message-ID: <Dec21.034118.48891@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 03:41:18 GMT
References: <3d7j6s$r4v@ramp.metro.or.gov>
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 29
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dave Drescher (drescher@metro.or.gov) wrote:
: of ponds?  My post says Wetland because our interest is in making something
: that does not look manmade.  Thanks for any info!!

What I would recommend is to find some wetlands near your area
and get the owners permission to selectively transplant the
organisms you want in your pond.  Make sure you keep these plugs
or samples separated (isolated) in a tub so you can really see
what is in there.

I waited a couple of days before I cleaned off and introduced
plant tubers, selected invertebrates, and aquatic plants.  As far
as I know, I have kept the leaches out so far.

Before we get into an envir/ecology flame war, I would like to
say I took small samples in large (>5mk2) wetlands with the
owners permission.  (Defensive Nettiquite)

I will keep almost any plant that thrives on it's own.  The
variety of niches (water level, substrate etc) should result in a
large variety of plants and animals.  I remove duck weed by hand
(they seem to keep introducing it) and it is in control.


Please post your wetland experiences,


Sheldon



From mattk@summit.novell.com Fri Dec 23 13:41:33 EST 1994
Article: 74 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.summit.novell.com!netnews.summit.novell.com!snowtown!mattk
From: mattk@summit.novell.com (Kaufman)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 23 Dec 1994 16:46:21 GMT
Organization: Novell
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3deust$gaf@bird.summit.novell.com>
References: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: snowtown.summit.novell.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Butch Bowley (Butch.Bowley@TI.Com) wrote:
: I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres.  I would like to put about a 1/2 acre pond and am concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience controlling these pests?

Err, most turtle and snake habitats are severely endangered. What exactly
makes them 'pests?' A pond that includes turtles and snakes and bugs
and whatnot, well, that sounds pretty attractive to me and would be beneficial
to these animals.

In terms of pond pests, frogs/toads will likely be much more of a problem
(if you view their noise and reproduction in your pond as a problem)
than the occasional turtle or snake.


Matt
--
"Where do you find  |copyright 1994, mattk@summit.novell.com. All rights
these Addam's men?" |reserved. Permission for reproduction by USENET and like
                    |free facilities explicitly allowed. No other reproduction
"It has to be damp."|rights are granted or implied.


From yrhee1@osf1.gmu.edu Fri Dec 23 14:48:11 EST 1994
Article: 75 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!portal.gmu.edu!osf1.gmu.edu!yrhee1
From: yrhee1@osf1.gmu.edu (Yong-Rim Rhee)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: 21 Dec 1994 04:32:28 GMT
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <3d8b4s$i7b@portal.gmu.edu>
References: <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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S Colacino (colacino@herald.usask.ca) wrote:
: I like to piss in ponds.

HA HA HA HA HA....ha ha?



From quirkesj@disa.ticsa.com Fri Dec 23 14:48:12 EST 1994
Article: 76 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ucthpx!ticsa.com!disa!quirkesj
From: quirkesj@disa.ticsa.com (Steve Quirke)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Volume & Surface area of a pond
Date: 21 Dec 1994 07:52:28 GMT
Organization: The Internetworking Company of Southern Africa
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3d8mrs$51v@ticsa.com>
References: <3d7ju6$78d@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: disa.oza.bp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Cliff Stoll (stoll@OCF.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
: Well, to start off rec.ponds, here's a short paper I wrote.
: It's pretty obvious stuff, but might be useful to some.

: All this is is straightforward dimensional analysis -- a useful tool
: in many places.

: -Cliff Stoll  (please don't send me e-mail as I'm swamped)
Thanks for the useful information.  I have a strange shaped pool and this 
could be useful.  I think I overstocked it and had a serious die off.
Your techniques have a cuckoo's egg ring to them.  Is this possible?

Steve



From quirkesj@disa.ticsa.com Fri Dec 23 14:48:13 EST 1994
Article: 77 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!ticsa.com!disa!quirkesj
From: quirkesj@disa.ticsa.com (Steve Quirke)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 07:56:51 GMT
Organization: The Internetworking Company of Southern Africa
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3d8n43$51v@ticsa.com>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: disa.oza.bp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
: Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?


This is the group I have been searching for, for a while.  I have a pond
about a year old quite small but very relaxing.  I also have a growing hole
in my back yard but if I make it into a pond too soon I will also have a 
divorce.  ( I built a stone wall which cost a lot of Saturdays ).

Steve




From tmz@interport.net Fri Dec 23 14:48:14 EST 1994
Article: 78 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!interport!tmz.port.net!tmz
From: tmz@interport.net (Todd M. Zebert)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,rec.ponds,alt.aquaria.killifish,sci.aquaria
Subject: BETA 2 AQUARIA GLOSSARY NOW AVAILABLE
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 12:36:15
Organization: Interport Communications
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <tmz.84.00C2D1D4@interport.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tmz.port.net
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.aquaria:28402 rec.aquaria:47346 rec.ponds:78 sci.aquaria:10179


Hello, I've been working on it, along with a little help from my friends...  
Although I'm still looking for more help, or at least some corrections and 
clarifications.

So, BETA 2 is now available, still only through WWW because my newsreader and 
my mail reader are too lame to post such a sizable message (70K).   If there 
is enough interest I'll turn it into a HTML document once we get to version 1!

Exact address or use my home page:
http://www.interport.net/~tmz/aq_glos.txt

Have a happy holiday!



Todd M. Zebert             SoHo, NY                tmz@interport.net
Check out my Web home page: http://www.interport.net/~tmz/
"What you don't know is probably more than you ever will."


From hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu Fri Dec 23 14:48:15 EST 1994
Article: 79 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!news.tc.cornell.edu!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!hhh3
From: hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Henry H Hansteen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: rec.ponds?
Date: 22 Dec 1994 19:39:01 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 7
Sender: hhh3@cornell.edu (Verified)
Message-ID: <3dckkl$9tt@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <WhiteisD-2112941609100001@dewpmac.dcrt.nih.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crux3.cit.cornell.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]

David Whiteis (WhiteisD@Magic.DCRT.NIH.GOV) wrote:
: So, like, is this newsgroup about ponds like frogs and turtles ponds? (I
: hope so, I think that's a great subject for a newsgroup.)  Anybody around?
 
 Yes, I believe it is, but I'd love to know what other type of ponds
you have encountered.
 Henry


From aln@maroon.tc.umn.edu Fri Dec 23 14:48:16 EST 1994
Article: 80 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!maroon.tc.umn.edu!aln
From: aln@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Alan L Nelson)
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Message-ID: <aln.788122121@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: maroon.tc.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 18:48:41 GMT
Lines: 8

epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:

>Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

You mean this isn't about facial creams for fun???    :-)

-Al



From warfin@primenet.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:17 EST 1994
Article: 81 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!slip174.lax.primenet.com!warfin
From: warfin@primenet.com (Lord John Warfin)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Any body heard of Aquatic Bio Tecnologies or Clear Pond
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 01:22:43 MST
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <warfin.4.00149F73@primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip174.lax.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]


If you have heard of these products I would like to know where. I am looking 
for some of them.

Lord John Whorfin

warfin@primenet.com



From howardr@col.hp.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:18 EST 1994
Article: 82 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!csn!col.hp.com!howardr
From: howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: 21 Dec 1994 09:39:19 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3d8t47$a0e@nonews.col.hp.com>
References: <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdrq7.col.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

S Colacino (colacino@herald.usask.ca) wrote:
: I like to piss in ponds.

Must be a sore head from net.advice.

--
              __          ______________________________________
             / /\
            / /  \        Howard Rebel
           /_/ /\ \       Software Engineer
    __     \ \ \ \ \      
   /_/\  __ \ \ \/ /      Hewlett-Packard Company
   \ \ \/ /\ \ \  /       1900 Garden of the Gods Road
    \ \ \/  \ \ \ \       Colorado Springs, Colorado 80907
     \ \  /\ \ \ \ \      
      \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \     Email:    howardr@col.hp.com
       \ \ \_\/  \_\/     Phone:    Telnet / (719) 598-1795
        \ \ \             Fax:      719-590-5701
         \_\/             



From slbailey@bu.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:19 EST 1994
Article: 83 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 22 Dec 1994 19:42:17 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3dckqp$o98@news.bu.edu>
References: <trg1.50.08BC5AE0@ins.infonet.net> <carienix-221294104550@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acs.bu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]

My tiny pond freezes solid -- it's 51 degrees today, oddly enough, but the
pond is an ice cube.  I can't winter fish without electrical help, and 
the location (and granite in my yard) precludes that, so I'm wintering my
fish in the basement in a garden cart filled with pond water and oxygenators
and with an aquarium filter attached.  I don't like bothering and I get
feeder fish anyhow, so I'm seriously considering the cruel idea of reverting 
back to letting the darned fish be "annuals" in my water garden!  

The water lilies winter nicely, I got hardies on purpose.

Unless the bottom of your pond is lower than the freeze line (48 inches in
New Hampshire) you need some way to keep the water heated or moving or both,
and frankly, the expense of such systems is beyond their value in my
situation. (If I had a different kind of pond in a better location with a
waterfall and/or natural water source like a creek... well, that would be
totally different!)

Sherry




From ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:20 EST 1994
Article: 84 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!news
From: ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com (Pete Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: skeeters
Date: 23 Dec 1994 17:53:15 GMT
Organization: General Motors
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3df2qb$g5v@rcsuna.gmr.com>
Reply-To: ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.cs.gmr.com

In article p9b@news.tamu.edu, oaks@chmbp2.tamu.edu (CHARLY) writes:
> What can I use in my pond to rid it of mosquitoes and wiqqlers (or
> whatever their larvae are called. Don't wish to use insecticides
> and Comets and mosquito donuts don't seem to work.

The best thing you can use is fish.  They love those things.  Each
year when I reset our ponds, I check how many of the fish have survived
and head down to my local Kmart or Meijers and buy those 10/$1.00 
feeder fish.  I have them pick out only the gold colored ones.  We've
had most of our fish winter over most years, occasionally something
goes wrong and we do a major restock.  I think some of ours are 5 yrs
old, and quite a good size.  No need to get the finicky koi, unless you
are truely interested in having them.

Pete Townsend







From ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:21 EST 1994
Article: 85 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!news
From: ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com (Pete Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: very small pond?
Date: 23 Dec 1994 17:55:32 GMT
Organization: General Motors
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3df2uk$g5v@rcsuna.gmr.com>
Reply-To: ptownsen@hydra.cs.gmr.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.cs.gmr.com

In article 3J8@stortek.com, cheryln@wook (Cheryl Netter x3449) writes:
> 
> Hi, 
> Someday, I'd like to have a real pond, but in the meantime
> I was wondering how hard it would be to grow some water
> lilies in a tub and store them succesfuly in the winter.

Super easy, is the answer.  We've been using barrels, old laundry room
sinks, tubs of all sorts of sizes.   Try it, and have fun.  

Pete Townsend







From slbailey@bu.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:21 EST 1994
Article: 86 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond liners
Date: 22 Dec 1994 19:46:48 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dcl38$o98@news.bu.edu>
References: <trg1.48.08AF7D4E@ins.infonet.net> <3dajqs$fga@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <carienix-221294104219@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acs.bu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]

Additional to rinsing the powder off roofing rubber (is neoprene the same
thing as EDPM -- or do I mean EPDM?), be careful to get the kind NOT
treated with an algecide.  Algae, after all, is one normal kind of pond life
and poison (-cide) is poison!

Sherry



From slbailey@bu.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:22 EST 1994
Article: 87 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Interesting bridge
Date: 22 Dec 1994 19:50:03 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3dcl9b$o98@news.bu.edu>
References: <3dccos$p4o@crcnis3.unl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acs.bu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]

Sounds like a concrete version of a traditional Japanese style of bridge, 
usually made from thick wooden planks.  Check a book on Japanese gardens
some time, and watch for bridges!

Sherry



From mobwords@random.ucs.mun.ca Fri Dec 23 23:58:23 EST 1994
Article: 88 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!mobwords
From: mobwords@random.ucs.mun.ca (Mobilewords Limited)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond water.
Date: 21 Dec 1994 10:52:33 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
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So does everybody, especially when swimming.
Spindizzy


From snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca Fri Dec 23 23:58:24 EST 1994
Article: 89 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca (Sheldon North)
Subject: Re: Submersible water pumps?
Message-ID: <Dec22.192328.24097@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 19:23:28 GMT
References: <3das6f$nhq@nic.umass.edu> <3dbm60$hq6@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>
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Quentin Hordle - Sun UK - (quentin@dragons_lair.uk.sun.com) wrote:
: Having only installed my pond this year, I read contradicting reports about submersible pumps.
: 	Should they stay in the pond through the winter?

I leave my little giant (750gal/hr) in the pond all year.  I have
it just below the average level of freezing, but a long cold snap
(-40) may be able to harm it.

The way I have my pond set up (hose under stone edging), it would
be a pain to remove the pump.

The 1" PVC (flexible pvc) shows no damage yet, but it will likely
need to be replaced some time.

: 	If so, should they be used intermittantly to clear them out?

If the pipe/hose is plugged with ice, you would be running the
pump against a maximum load.  I don't think this is a good idea.

Sheldon


From slbailey@bu.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:25 EST 1994
Article: 90 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pond safety issues
Date: 22 Dec 1994 19:56:54 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 22
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In most communities ponds are consiered an "attractive nuisance" in the eyes
of the law, and as such, there are maximum depths after which fencing is 
required.  In my town it's 24 inches, so my pond is that deep.  We put a
chain-link fence up across the back of the yard only (into which ivy is
supposed to be thickly growing!) because the first week we had the pond in, 
the backyard neighbor's toddler came over with a net and bucket to catch
the fish, and even at 24 inches, he was small enough to not be able to get
out if he got in.

If you are making a pond, be sure to check the zoning for your yard, since
the depth allowed varies, and in some rural areas, I have heard there is
no limit.  But you don't want to be responsible for some wayward neighbor
kid's death.  (Although, after the little kids next door destroyed my
pond, shoved edging rocks in, tipped my water lily tubs, and generally
messed things up, I nearly changed my mind about that!!!)(And that's WITH
the fence, which doesn't after all totally enclose anything.)

Just remember, as charmed as you are as an adult by water and fishies, little
kids are ten times more so!  It's an irresistable magnet.  And many parents 
these days don't keep their youngsters out of other people's yards...

Sherry


From hammett@ion Fri Dec 23 23:58:25 EST 1994
Article: 91 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!csn!stortek!ion!hammett
From: hammett@ion (Scott Hammett)
Subject: Making a pond pier
Message-ID: <D1AA6E.1qM@stortek.com>
Sender: news@stortek.com
Organization: Storage Tek
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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 21:54:13 GMT
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Anybody have an experience building and installing a floating
platform with a catwalk connecting the platform to the shore?
My pond level varies with the spring/summer run-off so I'd
like the catwalk to adjust with the platform.  

Our place is high in the Rockies (9000 ft) and our pond is fed
by a seasonal spring that has created a wetland area that is covered
with willow bushes.  When it crests, it's letter D shape mesaures
200' x 100'.  The pond is the home of frogs, axolotls (mud puppies), 
and muskrats.  It also attracts mallards and killdeer.  Our dogs 
(black labs) agitate the ducks to the point where they never really
nest or lay eggs.  

We stock the pond as soon as the ice breaks with 50 8" rainbow trout.
We suppliment their diet with trout pellets that we get at the trout
farm, but they do just fine on the bugs, snails, and freshwater shrimp.
Feeding them is such a kick since so many fish are hitting at once.  We
don't try to catch any fish until late June or July.  This gives them time
to grow and to become acclaimated.  We have tried to fish earlier but
the fish just won't bite.  This year we caught about 35 of them before
we gave up fishing for the season.  Towards the end, they were coming out
big; one measured 14".  They tasted good, too.

The spring that feeds the pond dries up in late summer and the pond
level drops dramatically. The winter kill prevents fish from surviving
the winter.  We've toyed with the idea of trying to keep the pond open
during the winter but the closest elctrical service is 800' away.

Anyway, that's my pond story.  If you'd like to visit it this summer
drop me a line.


Scott Hammett 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone:    (303) 673-8597
Address:  Scott Hammett, MS 4260, Storage Technology Corporation,
          2270 South 88th Street, Louisville, CO 80028-5248
Internet: Scott_Hammett@stortek.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:26 EST 1994
Article: 92 of rec.ponds
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From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond water.
Date: 21 Dec 1994 13:16:45 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
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Mobilewords Limited (mobwords@random.ucs.mun.ca) wrote:
: So does everybody, especially when swimming.
: Spindizzy

When I was a little kid my grandmother told me that there's a chemical 
they put in swimming pools that turns the water around you bright red if 
you pee in the pool. I think I was about six and I fell for it -- never 
had the pleasure of pissing in a pool until I met my wife and we were 
swimming together. When she told me she needed to "stand still for a 
minute" I asked if she was OK or had a cramp or something. The rest of 
the dialog was funny but you had to be there! Needless to say, I've been 
pissing in pools ever since - the kind that have chlorine in the water. 

ObPond: The pond is a place where only the goldfish are allowed to piss.


--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From stoll@OCF.Berkeley.EDU Fri Dec 23 23:58:27 EST 1994
Article: 93 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!stoll
From: stoll@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Cliff Stoll)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Cliff Stoll's article
Date: 23 Dec 1994 22:46:35 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Lines: 10
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References: <3db1h3$g7d@pentagon.io.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: headcrash-ether.berkeley.edu

Hi Steve and the pond-loving gang!

Why, sure, I'd be honored if you reprinted my short piece
on measuring pond volume and surface area.  Do include a byline.

In the next few weeks, I'll upload articles on how to patch
leaky concrete ponds and ways to control pesky raccoons.

Warm cheers on a chilly Berkeley Friday afternoon,
-Cliff Stoll


From jc@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:28 EST 1994
Article: 94 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!jc
From: jc@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Jerry Carden)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Submersible Water Pumps
Date: 23 Dec 1994 22:47:07 GMT
Organization: CSO Resource Center
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3dfk1b$1n7@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Carie Nixon (carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: I found that our local Farm and Fleet has a very good selection of
: submersible pumps, and at very, very good prices.  We picked out what we

We found the same thing at Farm & Fleet- not just with pumps but other pond
type stuff as well.  We bought a Rubbermaid stock tank (300 gal) that we
sunk in our backyard for our watergarden- it was MUCH cheaper and probably
more durable than the preformed pools we've seen elsewhere.

Jerry Carden


: wanted from one of the pond catalogs and before we sent for it we just
: happened to see them at Farm and Fleet, the very same pump, for nearly half
: price.  I don't know if they all have them, and if other similer chains
: would, but it is certainly worth a phone call!


From cheryln@stortek.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:29 EST 1994
Article: 95 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: cheryln@stortek.com (Cheryl Netter x3449)
Subject: Re: LillyPons Address?
Message-ID: <D18BI9.7H8@stortek.com>
Sender: news@stortek.com
Organization: Storage Technology
References: <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 20:27:44 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> randy_witlicki@lebanon.valley.net writes:
>
>Also:  Anybody have good sources for waterfall equipment? The pump
>selection in the Edmund Scientific catalog is pretty limited.
>


One source to consider might be Pet Warehouse (1-800-443-1160
for free catalog).

They list quite a few submersible pumps that I've seen
used in waterfalls. They also carry pond equipment. Ask for
the aquatic catalog.


cheryln@redwood.strotek.com



From pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca Fri Dec 23 23:58:30 EST 1994
Article: 96 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!alberta!cab013.cs.ualberta.ca!pjordan
From: pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca (Peter Jordan)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Date: 23 Dec 1994 22:56:18 GMT
Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <3dfkii$5kr@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: cab013.cs.ualberta.ca
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.drugs:105532 rec.ponds:96 soc.culture.singapore:34064 soc.culture.china:132872 soc.culture.netherlands:29505

tommyy@eos.bony.com (---) writes:

>        Selling opium in a sense is worse than being a robber.
>Consider the result of a nation with drug addicts.  

>        By giving out silver in exchange for opium, Chinese not 
>only lost money but spirit as well.  With opium, Chinese became
>weaker and weaker.  Besides, social problems ocurred as a result
>of too many drug addicts.  For example, broken families, proverty,
>rising crimes existed more often as ordinay citizens who became 
>drug addicts needed money to support their addiction.


	How many addicts did they have at that time ?

	Does anybody know ?

	Or are we just assuming that with so much opium, there must
	have been so many addicts ?

	On another thread, it is possible to maintain an opium
	addict in a state approaching normalcy (sp? / existance?),
	this still leaves the silver drain problem 
	(going broke) but .....

	there were sentiments in china at the time favouring the legalization 
	of the opium trade.  This would have destroyed the brit's abilities
	to maintain their (virtual) monopoly.  Jardine and Matheson would have
	been unable to pay their creditors.
	China would have regained control of the drug trade, and perhaps
	even their trade balance.  Its appears they were too corrupt/divided
	to be able to get their own monopoly going. 
	What would they have been able to do if they had put quality 
	control inspections on the imports of opium and some measure
	of control over who was sold to. Ooops, thats what this whole
	thing is all about. Who gets to sell to home. A slimy f**ing drug war.
	With thousands of innocent peoples' lives being thrown away inbetween.


	Know thine enemy.

	Peter J.




From hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:31 EST 1994
Article: 97 of rec.ponds
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From: hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Henry H Hansteen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: 21 Dec 1994 18:45:23 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 5
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S Colacino (colacino@herald.usask.ca) wrote:
: I like to piss in ponds.
 Don't piss in my pond, the bass might mistake your little weeny
for a minnow. What would you tell mommy at bath time?
 Henry


From hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:31 EST 1994
Article: 98 of rec.ponds
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From: hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Henry H Hansteen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: rec.ponds
Date: 21 Dec 1994 18:50:59 GMT
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Jeroen ten Berg (J.J.H.tenBerg@kub.nl) wrote:
: What the hell is this group about?
: And why is it so quiet here?
: Ciao,

 This group rules, It rules.  Ponds rule too, but you have to go get
one or check out someone else's before you can really appreciate the
beauty of 'em.
 Henry


From peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:32 EST 1994
Article: 99 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!ford.wpd.sgi.com!peteo
From: peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter Orelup)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 21 Dec 1994 18:42:35 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 30
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d9sur$1pu@fido.asd.sgi.com>
References: <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ford.wpd.sgi.com

In article <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>, tstrickl@grits
(Timothy Strickland) writes:
|> You do not know how pleased I was to be prompted for this group.
|> 
|> I am in the planning stages for constructing a garden pond for my
|> wife. I have  looked at all of the prefab ponds available at our
|> local Lowes store, but none  of them are as large as I am looking
|> for.
|> 
|> I am planning an irregular shaped, kind of a double kidney, pond
|> about 20 x 12  and 3 to 4 foot deep. I am unsure if I should use a
|> lining or concrete. I have  experiance with concrete, but I am not
|> sure about the expence of such a large   project.
|> 
|> Any suggestions?
|> 

I have a pond about the size you're planning: irregular shape, 18'x11', 3 feet
deep.  I used a 36 mil butyl rubber liner with nylon fibers for reinforcement.
I've been very happy with the result.  I used the same material for the 20'
stream that empties into the pond.  No leaks, no problems.  This material is
said to last for at least 20 years, even when exposed to direct sun.

Pete

------
Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875




From mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:33 EST 1994
Article: 100 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!ceres!mercer
From: mercer@ceres (Eric Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Avoiding Pitfalls
Date: 21 Dec 94 14:00:04 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1994Dec21.140004@ceres>
References: <3d9ob3$gvj@ramp.metro.or.gov>
Reply-To: mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.med.upenn.edu

In article <3d9ob3$gvj@ramp.metro.or.gov>, drescher@metro.or.gov (Dave Drescher) writes:
> Hello!
> 
> Can we start a list of pitfalls to avoid when constructing and 
> maintaining ponds?  Also, what is the best kind of liner to use?
> 
> Dave
> 

If no one has any objections, I was planning on starting a frequently-asked
question list for this group (I'm feeling masochistic).  I know the group
hasn't been here long enough for any question to be asked frequently, but
I don't think that matters.  

If anyone has any suggestions, or has ideas, or wants to help, or
wants to tell me why I should/shouldn't be doing this, please send
e-mail to mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu.

Unless everyone is against this, I will post a rough outline today or
tomorrow.

Thanks
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
|Eric A. Mercer                                                  |
|mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu	CVRC, University of Pennsylvania |
|office: (215)662-7837                                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------


From mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:34 EST 1994
Article: 101 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!ceres!mercer
From: mercer@ceres (Eric Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: I am volunteering to edit faq...
Date: 21 Dec 94 14:03:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1994Dec21.140327@ceres>
References: <3d9ob3$gvj@ramp.metro.or.gov> <1994Dec21.140004@ceres>
Reply-To: mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.med.upenn.edu

In article <1994Dec21.140004@ceres>, mercer@ceres (Eric Mercer) writes:
> 
> If no one has any objections, I was planning on starting a frequently-asked
> question list for this group (I'm feeling masochistic).  I know the group
> hasn't been here long enough for any question to be asked frequently, but
> I don't think that matters.  
> 
> If anyone has any suggestions, or has ideas, or wants to help, or
> wants to tell me why I should/shouldn't be doing this, please send
> e-mail to mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu.
> 
> Unless everyone is against this, I will post a rough outline today or
> tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> |Eric A. Mercer                                                  |
> |mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu	CVRC, University of Pennsylvania |
> |office: (215)662-7837                                           |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
|Eric A. Mercer                                                  |
|mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu	CVRC, University of Pennsylvania |
|office: (215)662-7837                                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------


From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:35 EST 1994
Article: 102 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!omni!SirWill1
From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Date: 21 Dec 1994 18:25:28 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3d9ruo$a3j@nova.voicenet.com>
References: <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se> <carienix-211294111941@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: omni.voicenet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Carie Nixon (carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:

:  I use native Killifish, or Topminnows as the native species are called. 
: They are pretty, peaceful (don't bother the koi or goldfish), overwinter,
: and reproduce enough to keep a steady supply in my pond.  I keep
: Starheaded, Blackstriped and Blackspotted Topminnows, which are all native
: to Illinois where I live.  Some people just go to the bait store and buy
: minnow and put a few in.  This works, but they aren't as interesting, and
: may reproduce too quickly. 

What species of Killes do you keep in a pond?  I was under the impression 
that Killifish, as a group name, defines several species of fish which 
live in ponds that dry up during winter. Eggs hatch when the waters flood 
the areas in the spring and the fish grow to breeding size quickly, the 
fertilized eggs remain dormant through the winter and then the cycle 
begins again.

--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:35 EST 1994
Article: 103 of rec.ponds
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From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 19:04:52 GMT
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Hendy (hendy@cisco.com) wrote:

: I don't want a fishtank (I don't want to give my landlords the extra $200
: security deposit "in case the tank leaks").  I *do* want something that
: can hold a few small goldfish in addition to selected plant life.  I'd
: also like it to NOT look like a large plastic bucket with a few plants
: stuck in it (the best idea I could come up with).

Get a wine or whiskey barrel and cut it in half. Use a liner, or go to a 
garden supply place and you might luck out and find a black plastic tub 
that fits perfectly inside the barrel half. The rest you already know.

--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From zhang@utkvx.utk.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:36 EST 1994
Article: 104 of rec.ponds
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From: zhang@utkvx.utk.edu (zhang, jing)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Date: 23 Dec 1994 00:09 EST
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In article <3dbg4r$opa@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>,
pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca (Peter Jordan) wrote:

>So what do you guys think ?    Is he right ?
>
>Chang, Hsin-pao.  _Commissioner Lin and the Opium War_. 1964.
>
>pg 15 :
>       "In the broad sense, the Opium War was a clash between two cultures.
>One was agricultural, Confucian, stagnant, and waist-deep in the quicksand
>of a declining dynastic cycle.  The Taiping rebellion was only a decade
>away, and the disintegrating economic, political, and social factors were
>already at work.  The other society was industrial, capitalistic,
>progressive, and restless.

I found it difficult to broaden the "sense" of Opium War to such an extent,
since all the British advantages mentioned by Mr. Chang should have led to 
a Motor War or Textile War. On the other hand, given that the Britain could 
and reasonably should have profited from selling motors and textiles, I 
have little difficulty to say that they WERE mother-fuckingly greedy, if 
I have to locate a reason in their "culture" for the fact that what they 
actually sold was drug.

>When the two met, conflicts were inevitable,

This is wrong, since there is an alternative --- TRADE. In fact, isn't it 
true that TRADE is the most frequent way brdging different cultures 
in reality ?? Of course, *trade* doesn't happen unconditionally, and the
conditions that I can think of are these:

        * The two parties are both gentlemen. "We are different or have
	  different things, and so let us trade".

        * The two parties are about equally powerful, at least in terms of
          shed pain, such that, even if one of them is a bastard, he knows
          that he'd better behave, since otherwise, there are no Hao3
          (good) Guo1-Zi1 (fruits) Chi1 (to eat).

>       "But the vital force that brought on the cultural conflict was
>Britain's commercial expansion. The friction that arose in the realms of
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>diplomacy, law and government was merely symptomatic of the basic problem
>--expansion versus containment.

This is not only wrong but laughable --- to equate drug trafficing 
with "commercial expansion". 

>The opium trade was an indispensible
>vehicle for facilitating this expansion and the two could not be seperated.

This is the only thing that I found Chang was right about, and 
*historically*: Britain used to bear a huge trade deficit with China
(British are smart enough to like Chinese tea, and Chinese are 
too "uneducated" to be interested in their "industrial products"), and it 
was turned around only because British later discovered that they didn't 
have to "educate" Chinese --- they could get them addicted.

>Had there been an effective alternative to opium, say molasses or rice,

>the conflict might have been called the Molasses War or the Rice War. The
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^^
>only difference would have been a matter of time: in the hypothetical case,
>the major article of import being harmless, the lethargic Chinese would not
>have been alarmed into action so soon.  The war could have been postponed,
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>but not avoided."
     ^^^^^^^^^^^

This is an improper/unfounded comparison/extrapolation. Opium is drug; 
Molasses and rice are good things. Trading drug is a crime, and it always 
leads to further crime; trading good things is an honorable thing to do, 
and it usually leads to mutual prosperity.

>Peter J.

Jing



From wilsodh@ndlc.occ.uky.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:37 EST 1994
Article: 105 of rec.ponds
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From: wilsodh@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Dennis Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Books
Date: 22 Dec 1994 05:24:04 GMT
Organization: The NDLC's Internet Gateway
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John McCann (mccann@mail.duke.edu) wrote:
: I have been searching for books on pond construction but have not 
: found anything in our local libraries (Durham, NC) or in the book 
: stores.  Does anyone have a list of appropriate books?

WE found a video tape on the subject at a local garden shop.  Try one 
near you.  They may have such a tape.

Dennis Wilson
Owensboro KY (USA)

wilsodh@ndlc.occ.uky.edu

"The fear of the Lord, is the beginning of wisdom!"  The Proverbs



From tbald@glue.umd.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:38 EST 1994
Article: 106 of rec.ponds
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From: tbald@glue.umd.edu (Thomas Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Spawning Koi
Date: 22 Dec 1994 20:58:55 GMT
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]

Can someone tell me at what water temperature Koi will spawn?  While
you're at it what temp. do goldfish spawn also?

Thanks,
Tom


From woodka@pauline.uucp Fri Dec 23 23:58:38 EST 1994
Article: 107 of rec.ponds
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From: woodka@pauline.uucp (Donna Woodka)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond Supplies in San Diego
Date: 24 Dec 1994 02:58:02 GMT
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Does anyone know a good place to find pond supplies in San Diego??? 
A friend wants to get her S/O a water pond for Christmas, and is
having trouble finding what she wants............
Donna Woodka		| "Never blow up the Earth in chapter one;  
woodka@sdsc.edu	        |  You might need it later." -- Douglas Adams


From pat@ssih.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:39 EST 1994
Article: 108 of rec.ponds
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From: pat@ssih.com (PAT TRAYNOR)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: rec.ponds?
Message-ID: <j1s-kKMw1Cw7070yn@ssih.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 18:42:37 -0500
References: <WhiteisD-2112941609100001@dewpmac.dcrt.nih.gov> <3dckkl$9tt@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: pat@ssih.com
Organization: South Shore Info Highway (617) 837-7744
Lines: 19

hhh3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Henry H Hansteen) wrote:
> David Whiteis (WhiteisD@Magic.DCRT.NIH.GOV) wrote:
> : So, like, is this newsgroup about ponds like frogs and turtles ponds? (I
> : hope so, I think that's a great subject for a newsgroup.)  Anybody around?
>  
>  Yes, I believe it is, but I'd love to know what other type of ponds
> you have encountered.

Well, I sort of had the same question.  Most of the messages that I've
seen have been about people making ponds, almost as though the name of the
group could have easily been rec.gardens.ponds.  I spend my summers on a
pond (Curlew Pond in Plymouth, MA), but it's about a half-mile across.  I
get the impression that this type of pond isn't what you're talking about
here.

--pat--
--
Pat Traynor     | South Shore Info Highway BBS - (617) 837-7744 - 28.8 V.34
pat@ssih.com    | Internet email - 1500 Usenet newsgroups - Marshfield, MA


From faunt@netcom3.netcom.com Fri Dec 23 23:58:40 EST 1994
Article: 109 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: faunt@netcom3.netcom.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS 510-655-8604)
Subject: Re: Cliff Stoll's article
In-Reply-To: sj@pentagon.io.com's message of 21 Dec 1994 23:06:43 -0600
Message-ID: <FAUNT.94Dec22102205@netcom3.netcom.com>
Sender: faunt@netcom.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS 510-655-8604)
Organization: at home, in Oakland
References: <3db1h3$g7d@pentagon.io.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 18:22:05 GMT
Lines: 9

This article didn't appear here.  Can someone repost or mail it to me?

Also, I gather this group is about small backyard ponds, but I have a
farm pond problem.  Does anyone know of a beaver-proof spillway?
The beavers blocked the spillway, so the earthen dam washed out, then
they built their own dam in front of the washout, but not back up to
the original level.  If I reconstruct the dam, I'd like a beaver-proof
spillway to keep this from happening again.
73, doug


From zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca Fri Dec 23 23:58:41 EST 1994
Article: 110 of rec.ponds
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From: zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 21 Dec 1994 21:45:07 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Lines: 22
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NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.bcu.ubc.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

on Wed, 21 Dec 1994 16:02:48 -0800 Kamin Johnson wrote in rec.ponds:

> I am also curious about the possible legal problems that could arise from
> having a small pond in your yard.  What if the neighbour's toy poodle, or
> worse yet 2 year old child wanders into your yard, unsupervised and falls
> into your fish pond and drowns?  Do you have to put up fences, warning
> signs, and barricades in order to protect yourself from lawsuits?  

check with your city. In my old town (London Ont.) the city treated
anything deeper than 24" as a swimming pool -- and that entailed
a 5 foot fence with all structural components on the inside, no
gaps (including betwixt ground and bottom) greater than 2 inches, and
a self-latching gate that closed within 30 seconds of being released.

here in langley, i called up and they said "huh? -- just build it"

your municiple govt. will me the best guide.

--
Zaphod
If we were still going barefoot the world would be a much softer place.
 -- Dana Watanabee


From zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca Fri Dec 23 23:58:41 EST 1994
Article: 111 of rec.ponds
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From: zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond liners
Date: 22 Dec 1994 01:13:00 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sun.bcu.ubc.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

on Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:30:33 cdt Tim Prachar wrote in rec.ponds:
> To those looking for a "rubber" pond liner, I would suggest getting the 
> material used for rubber-roofing.  Actually it is neoprene.  I have found it 

any one have a feel for toxicity levels of neoprene? other than that
question, it sounds perfect

--
Zaphod


From jfeinstein@umassd.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:42 EST 1994
Article: 112 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: jfeinstein@umassd.edu (Jonathan E. Feinstein)
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Message-ID: <D16xuM.8Dz@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: jfeinstein@umassd.edu
Organization: UMass Dartmouth, N. Dartmouth, MA.
References: <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>,<3d80m5$puo@nova.voicenet.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 02:35:10 GMT
Lines: 46

In article <3d80m5$puo@nova.voicenet.com>, SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1) writes:
>exudms@exu.ericsson.se wrote:
>
>: I was wondering how other people's older more established ponds are doing, 
>: in look and in function. The only thing that bothered me a little was last
>: month when I had a lot of falling leaves from trees that were getting into it 
>: and clogging the intake valve. Do you have problems with the elements like
>: debris and runoff from heavy rains? Do you have or attract birds, frogs, 
>: turtles, snakes?
>
>We put our pond to bed for the winter by arranging a frame made of 1/2 
>inch PVC tubing that arches up over it in a semi circle. Over this we put 
>bird netting which we weight down around the edges with the bricks we use 
>to elevate the lily pots when the pond is active. The leaves blow off the 
>net and there's no debris at all. We also turn off the filter and stop 
>feeding the fish around the time the insect choir stops blasting away all 
>night which, here in Eastern PA, is mid to late September.
>
    Nice touch with the tubing arch. I've used the bird netting too, but 
without the arch. The edge of the net is weighted down with stones (which are 
also the edging of the pond) and the black net itself sinks slightly into the 
water, becoming almost invisible. I don't leave the net there all winter,
however, just long enough to catch most of the fall leaves. I've found that
the goldfish in the pond seem to like a few leaves at the bottom during the 
winter. I clean it out each spring. This might not be workable in large ponds,
but mine is fairly small (roughly 12 x 12 and almost 3 feet deep).

    However, I do keep the filter going all winter (the fish have to fend for 
themselves foodwise though). The warm weather configuration has the pump 
sending the water over a series of rocks to simulate a natural spring, but in
the winter I move the pump from the bottom to a shelf only 15 inches deep
and attach a fountain tube (open-ended, no fountain head)that reaches just 
an inch below the surface. This keeps a hole open in the ice throughout
most of the SE New England winter. During particularly cold weather a dome of
ice will form over the bubbling water, looking it look much like an old-
fashioned coffee percolator, but a sharp blow with a crow bar will shatter 
this dome and some winters even that is not necessary.

    Peace,

    Jon.
			---------------------
   			JFeinstein@umassd.edu
        		---------------------

		Immortality is something you need to grow into.


From donn@u.washington.edu Fri Dec 23 23:58:45 EST 1994
Article: 113 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!donn
From: donn@u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 22 Dec 1994 09:24:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <3dbgjj$t5e@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer04.u.washington.edu

kamin_johnson@cellbio.duke.edu (Kamin Johnson) writes:
...
|   I have heard that if you place a relatively
| shallow pool of water out in the early spring, that mature toads will lay
| eggs in it.  I have access to a bunch of plastic 55 gallon drums, so I was
| thinking I could cut one of these in half, sink it in the ground and
| create a small artifical pond for them.

Sounds fine to me.  To avert tragedy, though, when your crop of toads is
about ready for terrestrial life, make sure they can easily climb out, or
seriously they will all drown.

|          I would like to include a few
| small fish to eat the mosquito larve, but I imagine they would also
| chow-down the tadpoles. Are there species of fish which would eat the
| mosquitos, but not the tadpoles?

The number of eggs from one hot toad mating session probably
exceeds your barrel's capacity to support tadpoles.  The small
tadpoles may be in danger for a while from small fish, but those
that survive the first couple of weeks should get bigger.  If you see
large water-beetles or their larvae, try to get them out of there, they're
murder on tadpoles.

In shallow water, newt/salamander larvae might take out some mosquito
larvae without bothering the tadpoles much.  There's even a kind of tiny
copepod that parasitizes mosquitoes to their extreme detriment.

|     I would like to place a plant in it and
| some around it to dress it up a bit, but I realize that space will be
| extremely limited.  I also am not sure if the toads need shallow water
| (several inches?) or if a couple feet of water would do as well.

Keep an eye on the temperature and algal growth, some shade may be
required, but if not full sun will give the best toad yield with fairly
deep water.  When the water gets too hot or deoxygenated, the fish will
probably go first, then the tadpoles.  I don't think tadpoles have any
depth limit per se, but the top foot is often where most of the food is.

|   I hope
| to build a much larger pond in the future, but I thought this might give
| me a quick, cheap way to get started and experiment. Any suggestions for
| fish, plants, etc?

Please not Asiatic Milfoil, or other exotic water weed that could get
carried off by a bird and survive the trip.  The lakes around here are
already hopelessly infested and choking on milfoil, don't do the same
for your area.

The best thing about the plants is that they'll get covered with algal scum,
more tadpole food, and they also are a little safer than open water if a
garter snake or something should visit.

Fish are at high risk.  Don't bother with goldfish, they're not big predators.

Disclaimers - I haven't messed around with this kind of stuff in decades,
and never did sink a true pond.  (I live in a lake, anyway.)  Strictly
speaking I never dealt with toad (Bufonidae) larvae, as toads are not
found in this area.  Tree frogs & chorus frogs are often called toads,
but there's nothing like a real toad.

	Donn Cave, donn@cac.washington.edu


From pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca Fri Dec 23 23:58:46 EST 1994
Article: 114 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!alberta!cab013.cs.ualberta.ca!pjordan
From: pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca (Peter Jordan)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Date: 22 Dec 1994 09:16:11 GMT
Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 51
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NNTP-Posting-Host: cab013.cs.ualberta.ca
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.drugs:105553 rec.ponds:114 soc.culture.singapore:34076 soc.culture.china:132916 soc.culture.netherlands:29531


Chang, Hsin-pao.  _Commissioner Lin and the Opium War_. 1964.

pg 15 :
	"In the broad sense, the Opium War was a clash between two cultures.
One was agricultural, Confucian, stagnant, and waist-deep in the quicksand
of a declining dynastic cycle.  The Taiping rebellion was only a decade 
away, and the disintegrating economic, political, and social factors were
already at work.  The other society was industrial, capitalistic, 
progressive, and restless.  When the two met, conflicts were inevitable,
and the defeat of China was equally inevitable.
	"But the vital force that brought on the cultural conflict was
Britain's commercial expansion.  The friction that arose in the realms of 
diplomacy, law and government was merely symptomatic of the basic problem
--expansion versus containment.  The opium trade was an indispensible 
vehicle for facilitating this expansion and the two could not be seperated.
Had there been an effective alternative to opium, say molasses or rice,
the conflict might have been called the Molasses War or the Rice War.  The
only difference would have been a matter of time: in the hypothetical case,
the major article of import being harmless, the lethargic Chinese would not 
have been alarmed into action so soon.  The war could have been postponed,
but not avoided."

		*	*	*	*	*	*

So what do you guys think ?	Is he right ?

			*	*	*

I'll have to remember to see if I can't find that book tomorrow.

More interesting snippets from :
_Research Issues 24  Perspectives on the History of Psychoactive Substance
Use_. NIDA (pg 141).
					to come later.

	Take off and have a good holiday eh !
Peter J.

		-	-	-	-	-	-
P.S. I fell into a pond up to my neck in muskeg not too often as a kid.
I still remember the smells of all those bog plants. The Catnip
(Typha latifolia), Labrador Tea (Ledum groenlandicum), Sphagnum Moss
(Sphagnum spcs.), Dwarf Dogbane (? Wintergreen family(?)), Birch (Betula sp.)
clubmoss (Lycopodium campanulatum (or is that the narcotic one ?))
and of course all the little Gnomes that used to run around too ...
	Well you see, I thought it would be fun to do it again.  So hold
back your flames and feel free to edit the newsgroups line yourself.


Peter J.


From bright@debris.cosmic.com Sat Dec 24 10:20:34 EST 1994
Article: 115 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!hookup!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!syko.cosmic.com!not-for-mail
From: bright@debris.cosmic.com (Thomas Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 22 Dec 1994 17:08:59 -0500
Organization: Cosmic Communications, Long Island, NY
Lines: 29
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References: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>
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Well, I don't have ponds now, but when my brothers and I were kids we had
several wading pool size ponds.  Some were made of dry laid bricks with
plain old construction plastic liners, the best was a three story (pond
overflowing to a pond overflowing to a pond) built of concrete.  They all
kept critters happy and healthy for years (we brought the populace inside in
the winters).

Each spring we used to clean up the pools a little, then go to the local
cemetary irrigation pond.  The toads loved the place, and at the right
season the shoreline would be black with toad tadpoles a foot wide.  Given
that 99.99% of these critters would never live to grow legs, we felt
perfectly justified in scooping up a couple of buckets full and stocking our
ponds.

We fed the tads rabbit pellets (alfalfa) plus whatever fell in the pool &
whaever grew & I expect the big ones nibbled on the little ones as well. 
Come the end of summer a new crop of tiny toads would move off into the
yard.

We used to class our toads by how much money their insect eating would save
a farmer per year.  New ones were 2 cent toads, after a couple of years you
might get to a 2 dollar toad, and the hand-size granddaddys- why that's a
twenty dollar toad, son!

Best of luck with your pond.
Croak!

Tom Wilson



From kendo@u.washington.edu Sat Dec 24 10:20:35 EST 1994
Article: 116 of rec.ponds
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From: kendo@u.washington.edu (Thomas Bolling)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Cliff Stoll's article
Date: 24 Dec 1994 04:58:50 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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stoll@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Cliff Stoll) writes:

>Hi Steve and the pond-loving gang!

>Why, sure, I'd be honored if you reprinted my short piece
>on measuring pond volume and surface area.  Do include a byline.

>In the next few weeks, I'll upload articles on how to patch
>leaky concrete ponds and ways to control pesky raccoons.

>Warm cheers on a chilly Berkeley Friday afternoon,
>-Cliff Stoll

Dear Cliff:   Madelon and I will be especially eager to hear your tips on 
those sweet but, yes, pesky raccoons.    Right now our little pond in 
Seattle is enclosed in a kind of cage because of those guys...  we 
wouldn't mind sharing, but they just shred every plant and eat every fish 
and generally make the pond look egg flower soup!    They're adorable 
though, except for that....  heh,heh,heh!     Tom


From zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca Sat Dec 24 10:20:36 EST 1994
Article: 117 of rec.ponds
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From: zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Edging
Date: 21 Dec 1994 15:57:02 GMT
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on 21 Dec 1994 14:50:39 GMT Chad James Segura wrote in rec.ponds:
> Hi,

> I'm building a small backyard pond (50 FT2 area) and need
> help with the edging.  Awhile back someone on rec.gardens
> wrote how to edge the pond so one couldn't see the liner.
> Anybody have a copy of that to post?  It was the beginning
> of what looked like a ponds faq.  Thanks.

that was most likely me. at least i did post this a year or
so ago in rec.gardens. based on building a number of ponds, and
purposfully examining dozens more...

--
Zaphod
Quick sysadmin test...
 Have you ever told a newbie that the "any" key is the switch labeled 1/0?
 Did you deny it when confronted by your boss?

---cut--here---8<--------8<---cut--here---8<--------8<---cut--here---8<-------

Pond Liners and the Sun
-----------------------
There are a number of reasons to keep the sun from shining on your pond liner.
First off, liners are not particularly pretty, and secondly the sun can/will
decay the liner over time. You have essentially two tools with which to
hide the liner -- earth/stones  and water.

The first issue in hiding your liner is to create a level pond. Let's say that
your pond is 10 feet long, and you have one end only a few inches lower than
the other. If you were to use this without better leveling, then after filling
you would have a minimum of 4 inches showing at the one end -- and since many
pool owners keep the level down an inch or two, you have *half a foot* of 
liner showing -- not good. So the more level your pond is the better -- beg,
borrow or buy a 4 foot contractors level, or strap a two foot level to a
piece of straight, stiff wood and use that.


The other issue in hiding your liner is how you finish the edges of the pond.
Traditionally, ponds are finished as follows: the liner comes up out of the
water, over the edge and flatish rocks are lain on top of the liner to hide 
the liner. The rocks overhang the edge to even better hide the liner, 
but this has never really hidden it to my eyes. (see figure 1) 

figure 1. traditional edge finishing

                      XXXXXXXXXXXXXX      <--- cap stone
ground level ===========--------+         <--- gap showing liner
                                |~~~~~~~  <--- water level
                                \
                                 \ <-----      liner


Two better approaches have been discovered by me spring 1993 in the catalogues 
of Lee Valley Tools (Queensview Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) If they sourced
these ideas from elsewhere, I've never seen them and they did not credit them.

Approach one is how I did my pond. When you bring up the liner, tuck it 
under a course or two of bricks, and then back over the bricks. Finish with 
capstones. The two courses of bricks stay submerged in the water, and 
liner,  being beneath and behind them is completely hidden from sight/sun. 
In my pond, the water must drop a good 6 inches before *starting* to show 
liner. see figure 2.  


figure 2. submerged bricks to hold liner

                      XXXXXXXXXXXXXX      <--- cap stone
ground level ===========+----- 
                        | BBBB~~~~~~~     <--- water level
                        | BBBB      <---       bricks in courses (rows)
                        +-------+
                                |
                                \
                                 \ <-----      liner


Approach two is how I might well do the next pond, but it requires a extra
one to two feet of surface area. The Idea is to create a natural setting
with pea gravel/sand and a bog around the edges. Somehow I suspect that 
the raccoons might find this very easy to disturb, but one never knows.

incorporate a two foot wide, 6 inch deep shelf all around the pond, in
addition to any shelves you already have for shallow water plants. Bring the
liner up and along this shelf and about 5 inches up the edge. Along the
inside edge of this shelf, put in a course (row) or two of bricks -- these
will hold the gravel in place. back fill the shelf with gravel/sand to fill
in the shelf. Fill the pool until half of the gravel is submerged, giving a
beach-like edge to the pond. shallow water plants can be planted in the
gravel/sand, with or without pots. (figure three for those keeping count)

figure 3. more natural finish

ground level =======oooooo
                     \ oooooo            <--- gravel
                      \ooooooooo~~~~~~   <--- water level
                       \ooooooooo
                        \ ooooooooBBBB
                         \ooooooooBBBB   <--- bricks holding gravel
                          +-----------+
                                      |
                                       \
                                        \ <--- liner


In both of these alternative, the liner is only visible through the water
itself, still not the best in my opinion, but still a lot better than the
gap of exposed liner around the edge of the pond.

enjoy.


From djwenz@clark.net Sat Dec 24 10:20:36 EST 1994
Article: 118 of rec.ponds
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From: djwenz@clark.net (Dan Wenz)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 22 Dec 1994 17:48:05 -0500
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In article <3d8n43$51v@ticsa.com>,
Steve Quirke <quirkesj@disa.ticsa.com> wrote:

>This is the group I have been searching for, for a while.  I have a pond
>about a year old quite small but very relaxing.  I also have a growing hole
>in my back yard but if I make it into a pond too soon I will also have a 
                                              ^^^^^^^^
>divorce.  ( I built a stone wall which cost a lot of Saturdays ).
>
Sounds like you need to set your priorities in proper order ;->


From cheryln@redwood.stortek.com Sat Dec 24 10:20:37 EST 1994
Article: 119 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: cheryln@wook (Cheryl Netter x3449)
Subject: very small pond?
Message-ID: <D165Kq.3J8@stortek.com>
Sender: news@stortek.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 16:24:25 GMT
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Hi, 
Someday, I'd like to have a real pond, but in the meantime
I was wondering how hard it would be to grow some water
lilies in a tub and store them succesfuly in the winter.
The lilypons catalog makes it sound easy.
I'm USDA zone 4, Golden Colorado.


cheryl




From ed@rhythm.com Sat Dec 24 10:20:37 EST 1994
Article: 120 of rec.ponds
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From: ed@rhythm.com (Eduardo Batres)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 22 Dec 1994 16:15:48 -0800
Organization: Rhythm & Hues Studios Inc., Hollywood
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <3dd4rk$r9e@rhythm.com>
References: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu> <3dbgjj$t5e@nntp1.u.washington.edu>


In article <3dbgjj$t5e@nntp1.u.washington.edu> donn@u.washington.edu (Donn Cave) writes:
>kamin_johnson@cellbio.duke.edu (Kamin Johnson) writes:
>...
>|          I would like to include a few
>| small fish to eat the mosquito larve, but I imagine they would also
>| chow-down the tadpoles. Are there species of fish which would eat the
>| mosquitos, but not the tadpoles?
>
>The number of eggs from one hot toad mating session probably
>exceeds your barrel's capacity to support tadpoles.  The small
>tadpoles may be in danger for a while from small fish, but those
>that survive the first couple of weeks should get bigger.  If you see
>large water-beetles or their larvae, try to get them out of there, they're
>murder on tadpoles.

There is a breed of fish used nation wide  by  mosquito  control  agencies,
called  appropriately  enough _Mosquito fish_.  They superficially resemble
guppies, but are considerably hardier.  Due to their  size  they  will  eat
larvae and copepods but not harm tadpoles.  Native to florida, they do not
represent a threat to local fish populations.

>
>In shallow water, newt/salamander larvae might take out some mosquito
>larvae without bothering the tadpoles much.  There's even a kind of tiny
>copepod that parasitizes mosquitoes to their extreme detriment.
>
>|     I would like to place a plant in it and
>| some around it to dress it up a bit, but I realize that space will be
>| extremely limited.  I also am not sure if the toads need shallow water
>| (several inches?) or if a couple feet of water would do as well.
>
>Keep an eye on the temperature and algal growth, some shade may be
>required, but if not full sun will give the best toad yield with fairly
>deep water.  When the water gets too hot or deoxygenated, the fish will
>probably go first, then the tadpoles.  I don't think tadpoles have any
>depth limit per se, but the top foot is often where most of the food is.
>

I use to keep water hyacinth (sp?) in large flower pots filled with  water.
They  spread  over the top of the water and have roots with bulbs suspended
beneath.  This provides cover for little tadpoles, baby mosqutito fish  and
provide a natural filter for the water.  The water I changed monthly (about
25-33%) provide water for my  indoor  plants,  and  boy  did  those  plants
thrive! The water was aged, charged with nutrients and ambient temperature.
Be warned however, that this plant will begin to thrive and should be culled
periodically and composted.  It can get out of control very easily and can
become a pest if you allow it to get into natural waterways.

BTW, once or twice a year the Hyacinth has an absolutely beautiful bloom.

>|   I hope
>| to build a much larger pond in the future, but I thought this might give
>| me a quick, cheap way to get started and experiment. Any suggestions for
>| fish, plants, etc?
>
>Please not Asiatic Milfoil, or other exotic water weed that could get
>carried off by a bird and survive the trip.  The lakes around here are
>already hopelessly infested and choking on milfoil, don't do the same
>for your area.

Hyacinth can not be carried away, but is prolific in good conditions.

>
>	Donn Cave, donn@cac.washington.edu


Sure glad to see a newgroup devoted to ponds! My news carrier just added this
group and I think its great. I'm looking forward to many good exchanges. I'm
designing a backyard multi=level construction for a friend that lives under
the Hollywood sign in the hills.  I could use advise and ideas.


-Ed

ed@rhythm.com
-- 
   /\  ^^  /\     |    Eduardo E. Batres    |  Rhythm and Hues, Inc.  |
  //\\(())//\\    |                         |     ed@rhythm.com       |
 /\/\/ \/ \/\/\   |          "Bat"          |    vox 213-851-6500     |


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Sat Dec 24 10:20:38 EST 1994
Article: 121 of rec.ponds
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From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:19:41 +0800
Organization: INHS
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In article <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>, exudms@exu.ericsson.se wrote:


> I did see a few more mosquitos this year, but overall I'm very happy with
> my project.
> 
Mosquitoes are very easy to eliminate.  You need to keep a few of the
smaller types of fish.  Guppies are good, but will die out when it gets
cold.  Varieatus Platties live in much colder water, but will not survive
the winter in the colder areas.  Native mosquito fish, Gambusia, work well.
 I use native Killifish, or Topminnows as the native species are called. 
They are pretty, peaceful (don't bother the koi or goldfish), overwinter,
and reproduce enough to keep a steady supply in my pond.  I keep
Starheaded, Blackstriped and Blackspotted Topminnows, which are all native
to Illinois where I live.  Some people just go to the bait store and buy
minnow and put a few in.  This works, but they aren't as interesting, and
may reproduce too quickly. 


From drescher@metro.or.gov Sat Dec 24 10:20:39 EST 1994
Article: 122 of rec.ponds
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From: drescher@metro.or.gov (Dave Drescher)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Avoiding Pitfalls
Date: 21 Dec 1994 17:23:47 GMT
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Hello!

Can we start a list of pitfalls to avoid when constructing and maintaining ponds?  Also, what is the best kind of liner to use?

Dave



From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Sat Dec 24 10:20:39 EST 1994
Article: 123 of rec.ponds
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From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: skeeters
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:47:17 +0800
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In article <3d9ied$p9b@news.tamu.edu>, oaks@chmbp2.tamu.edu (CHARLY) wrote:

> What can I use in my pond to rid it of mosquitoes and wiqqlers (or
> whatever their larvae are called. Don't wish to use insecticides
> and Comets and mosquito donuts don't seem to work.
> 
> Anybody have a working solution?
> 
> Thanks
> 
My husband actually did research on what types of fish can be used by
garden pond owners to control mosquitoes.  Mosquito fish (Gambusia),
Varieatus platties, fathead minnows, golden shiners, all were good.  The
point is, they are small, insect eating fish.  I use topminnows in some
ponds, and have used guppies.  The guppies are related to mosquito fish,
and are actually called mosquito fish in their native counties.  They are
very pretty in the pond, and since they swim around at the top, as do the
topminnows (no kidding), they are up in the area where the mosquito larvae
live.  They are very effective.  


From lightman@KAOFS.dec.com Sat Dec 24 10:20:40 EST 1994
Article: 124 of rec.ponds
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From: lightman@KAOFS.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Spawning Koi
Date: 23 DEC 94 09:31:52 EST
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <3dcpaf$egl@mojo.eng.umd.edu>, tbald@glue.umd.edu (Thomas Baldwin) writes...
>Can someone tell me at what water temperature Koi will spawn?  While
>you're at it what temp. do goldfish spawn also?
> 
My KOI spawn every JUne in my outdoor pond (i have an indoor one as well)
when the temperature is about seventy degrees. 




From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Sat Dec 24 10:20:41 EST 1994
Article: 125 of rec.ponds
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From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Submersible Water Pumps
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:00:09 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 6
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I found that our local Farm and Fleet has a very good selection of
submersible pumps, and at very, very good prices.  We picked out what we
wanted from one of the pond catalogs and before we sent for it we just
happened to see them at Farm and Fleet, the very same pump, for nearly half
price.  I don't know if they all have them, and if other similer chains
would, but it is certainly worth a phone call!


From exudms@exu.ericsson.se Sat Dec 24 10:20:41 EST 1994
Article: 126 of rec.ponds
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From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: 21 Dec 1994 18:28:56 GMT
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In article pli@tribune.usask.ca,  colacino@herald.usask.ca (S Colacino) writes:
()I like to piss in ponds.
()


Yes, you are a puddle in your own time...

/Dave



From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Sat Dec 24 10:20:42 EST 1994
Article: 127 of rec.ponds
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From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:20:40 +0800
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I have seen some very nice small preformed ponds used on balconies.  You
can "landscape" around it with potted plants, or even rocks if you like. 
Or you can build a wooden box around it and make it look like a raised
deck.  If you are up off the ground floor, make sure that the floor of you
balcony is strong enough to handle the weight of the water, rocks, plants,
etc.  When I had to live in an appartment with a balcony, there was no way
it could of handled it.  The floor was cheap 1 x 6 pine boards, and you
could feel them bow just walking on them.  Scary when it's 3 flights up.  


From jgoddard@ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au Sat Dec 24 10:20:43 EST 1994
Article: 128 of rec.ponds
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Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Fishing holes (was: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Message-ID: <3dd0pf$rj6@sheoak.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au>
From: jgoddard@ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au (Jennifer Goddard)
Date: 22 Dec 1994 23:06:22 GMT
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S|ren Erichsen (nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk) wrote:
: Woody Harper (woody@news.enet.net) wrote:
: : Well, I'm only a wannabe pond splasher right now but am looking to purchase 40
: : acres in 1995 and want to install my own li'l fishin' hole. That's why I
: : am here. Are there any others here who use their ponds as a private fishing
: : resource?
We stocked our dam (which is in the garden, so I reckon it qualifies
as a pond) with 50 rainbow and 50 brown trout fingerlings a year and
a half ago.  They should have been great by this Christmas - they grew
well.  The last one I saw was about 4 inches long - flopping down
either side of a cormorant's bill :-(
Yes, at one stage we had 14 cormorants on the dam.  
People round here net small ponds against the birds, but this is too
big.  We've added some old tyres and some large pipes - and some more
fingerlings, which we hope will be clever enough to hide there.
Any other bright ideas?  I don't mind a tithe to cormorants, but I
want to taste some trout!

Jennifer

--
Jennifer Goddard - jgoddard@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au
tel 61 54 447 401; fax 61 54 447 777  |   Before the job is done 
Dept of Inf Tech, LTUB, PO Box 199    |   There's another just begun 
Bendigo, Vic 3550, Australia          |   - Lee Kernaghan 


From tommyy@eos.bony.com Sat Dec 24 10:38:14 EST 1994
Article: 129 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!psinntp!bony1!eos!tommyy
From: tommyy@eos.bony.com (---)
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Message-ID: <D19zr2.uG@bony1.bony.com>
Sender: news@bony1.bony.com (USENET News System)
Organization: none
References: <3dbg4r$opa@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> <221294111626@128.253.208.151>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 18:09:01 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.drugs:105605 rec.ponds:129 soc.culture.singapore:34101 soc.culture.china:132941 soc.culture.netherlands:29566

In article <221294111626@128.253.208.151> sqs writes:
[.........]
>
>However, this does not justify the aggression no matter what the aggressors
>were force-selling, opium or rice. A sick man needs a doctor, not a robber
>or terminator. And the capitalistic Europeans were just international
>robbers and racial terminators. Look at the continents of America, Africa
>and Australia and you will understand my point. Things in Asia were
>slightly different because the cultural heritages were too deep to root and
>the population was too huge to wipe out even though the kindoms in India
>and the dynasty in China were declining.
>
[.........]
        

        Selling opium in a sense is worse than being a robber.
Consider the result of a nation with drug addicts.  

        By giving out silver in exchange for opium, Chinese not 
only lost money but spirit as well.  With opium, Chinese became
weaker and weaker.  Besides, social problems ocurred as a result
of too many drug addicts.  For example, broken families, proverty,
rising crimes existed more often as ordinay citizens who became 
drug addicts needed money to support their addiction.


 

	

T.
 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
-




From london@SunSITE.unc.edu Sat Dec 24 10:38:15 EST 1994
Article: 130 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!london
From: london@SunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fishing holes (was: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 24 Dec 1994 15:45:09 GMT
Organization: SunSITE, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 22
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <3dhfm5$1i0a@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7g41$dq4@pinyon.enet.net> <3d8og6$6f7@news.uni-c.dk> <3dd0pf$rj6@sheoak.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu

In article <3dd0pf$rj6@sheoak.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au>,
>Yes, at one stage we had 14 cormorants on the dam.  
>People round here net small ponds against the birds, but this is too
>big.  We've added some old tyres and some large pipes - and some more
>fingerlings, which we hope will be clever enough to hide there.

How about planting the dam with varieties of _large_ growing wild roses;
rosa rugosa perhaps or something similar in growth habit that is native 
to your area. Wild roses grow very fast and could completely cover your dam
in a year or two and eliminate their preferred vantage point for
fish-hunting. Those roses can grow 15'X15' completely covered with sharp
grasping, hooking thorns that could easily ensnare the birds. The branches
are too small to support their weight. There may be other shrubs that would
work well such as eleagnus, pyracantha, barberry or citrus trifoliata. These
could be planted right down to waters edge. 

Or ask Bill Mollison, the permaculture expert in OZ who has written 
several books.

Lawrence
london@sunSITE.unc.edu
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA


From kamin_johnson@cellbio.duke.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:15 EST 1994
Article: 131 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu!user
From: kamin_johnson@cellbio.duke.edu (Kamin Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 16:02:48 -0800
Organization: Duke University
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu

Hi,
I am really glad to see this newsgroup is finally on line.  I am hoping to
get a little advice for a backyard project.  I live in a semi-wooded
suburban neighborhood and have been gradually naturalizing my yard.  I
would like to put in a small water source  to attract toads and birds to
the yard.  I'd like to have them around, particularly the toads, to munch
on the bugs in the yard.  I have heard that if you place a relatively
shallow pool of water out in the early spring, that mature toads will lay
eggs in it.  I have access to a bunch of plastic 55 gallon drums, so I was
thinking I could cut one of these in half, sink it in the ground and
create a small artifical pond for them.  I would like to include a few
small fish to eat the mosquito larve, but I imagine they would also
chow-down the tadpoles. Are there species of fish which would eat the
mosquitos, but not the tadpoles?  I would like to place a plant in it and
some around it to dress it up a bit, but I realize that space will be
extremely limited.  I also am not sure if the toads need shallow water
(several inches?) or if a couple feet of water would do as well.  I hope
to build a much larger pond in the future, but I thought this might give
me a quick, cheap way to get started and experiment. Any suggestions for
fish, plants, etc?
I am also curious about the possible legal problems that could arise from
having a small pond in your yard.  What if the neighboor's toy poodle, or
worse yet 2 year old child wanders into your yard, unsupervised and falls
into your fish pond and drowns?  Do you have to put up fences, warning
signs, and barricades in order to protect yourself from lawsuits?  
Thanks for any info.
Dan Settles
dan_settles@cellbio.duke.edu


From Butch.Bowley@TI.Com Fri Dec 30 20:59:15 EST 1994
Article: 132 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!news.itg.ti.com!BBowley
From: Butch.Bowley@TI.Com (Butch Bowley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Snakes and Turtles
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 20:04:43 GMT
Organization: Information Technology Group, Texas Instruments
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbowley.itg.ti.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2

I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres.  I would like to put about a 1/2 acre pond and am concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience controlling these pests?


Cheers
butch




From Butch.Bowley@TI.Com Fri Dec 30 20:59:16 EST 1994
Article: 133 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!news.itg.ti.com!BBowley
From: Butch.Bowley@TI.Com (Butch Bowley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 20:10:14 GMT
Organization: Information Technology Group, Texas Instruments
Lines: 5
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3da5r0$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
References: <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca> <3d9t43$mg1@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbowley.itg.ti.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2

Are ya'll so lonely that you have to waste this much response?

It's obvious that we can name these idioc intruders as 'pond scum'!!




From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:17 EST 1994
Article: 134 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Noisy Ponds
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 15:40:26 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <carienix-211294154027@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <D16E30.D6z@info.bris.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu


> 
> So anyway, seeing this group just started, I guess there might be
> people here who know whether it REALLY is necessary for him to run this
> fountain 24 hours a day. Would turning it off at night really be that
> bad. btw he does have some fish.

It may not be necessary for him to have such a noisy one, but whatever type
he chose, if it is the type that has biological filtration, and most of the
good ones are, now, yes it is necessary.  If the water movement stops for
very long, the bacteria that purifies the water, will die and actually foul
the water.


From pendeea3@wfu.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:18 EST 1994
Article: 135 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!pendeea3
From: pendeea3@wfu.edu (eric addkison pendergrass)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: How do you drain a pond?
Date: 24 Dec 1994 18:25:01 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 14
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

This may be a dumb question, but we have a large pond (you might call it 
a lake) which is partially drained every year to kill weeds.  Well, I was 
wondering how, technically, one drains a pond.  I know there is some type 
of valve at the bottom, but how is this kept free of sediment?  Why 
doesn't all kinds of crap get into it when it's draining?

This is really bothering me.

--
_______________________________________________________________
pendeea3@wfu.edu             * erpendergras@pollux.davidson.edu
http://www.wfu.edu/~pendeea3 * pendgrss@whale.st.usm.edu [4.1] 
__________Watts Brewery________________________________________
 


From jlin@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:19 EST 1994
Article: 136 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail
From: jlin@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (John Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: How to keep pond water clear ?
Date: 24 Dec 1994 11:30:40 -0800
Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-2139)
Lines: 26
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


I am keeping asmall KOI  pond in the backyard, with external
swimming pool type filtration pum installed by the landscaping contractor,
but it seems water color is almost green all year round, sometimes, more
thread type algae, sometimes, more suspended micro algae.

I tried some chemical bought in watergarden supply, but not very
effective.

I heard that may be able to use UV lamp to kill algae in the water,
is this for real ? is there anyone know how to do it ?

UV (Ultra violet light)

I know Sunshine contain UV light, but it promote algae growth, rather
than inhibit it, so I guess the UV used to kill algae must be far more
stronger in intensity. I am aware the water filtration system which use 
UV to kell bacteria, for drinking water, so this may be similar terminology.

Best regards

John
-- 
John Lin     *** Save the planet, save the world ! ***

e-mail: jlin@kaiwan.com


From jsb@col.hp.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:19 EST 1994
Article: 137 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hplextra!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!jsb
From: jsb@col.hp.com (Jeff Beauprez)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Looking Forward to ...
Date: 23 Dec 1994 02:10:04 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3ddbhs$ma@nonews.col.hp.com>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.7]


I'm glad to see a string start about ponds, hope to see a lot of discussion
on the subject.

There is a LARGE following along the Denver-Colorado Springs corridor. The
water garden society here in Colorado Springs draws quite the croud for
their meeting and the presentations are very good.

We have had ponds of several types for about six years, with the current
count at two. One outside and a larger one indoors. It fills what once
was a large indoor planter in the entry-way. An indoor tropical garden
does wonders for a house.



==========================================================================
  *******      *******     Hewlett-Packard Company
 ******* //     *******    Colorado Springs Technology Center
 *****  //        *****
 ****  //--.  .--. ****    Jeff Beauprez
 **** //   / //  / ****  
 ****//   / //--/  **** 
 *****     //     *****    1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.     jsb@col.hp.com
 *******  //    *******    Colorado Springs, CO
  *******      *******
==========================================================================


From jopowers@delphi.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:20 EST 1994
Article: 138 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!jopowers
From: jopowers@delphi.com (John R. Powers, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: uk person needs advice
Date: 24 Dec 1994 07:51:29 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 2
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References: <D19Gx4.MLy@hfnet.bt.co.uk>
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X-To: John R. Powers, Jr. <jopowers@delphi.com>





From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:21 EST 1994
Article: 139 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!lf.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon!hpchase.rose.hp.com!pat
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 23 Dec 1994 02:22:24 GMT
Organization: Roseville Networks Division
Lines: 43
Distribution: world
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References: <3d9fsa$msd@goodnews.globalcom.net>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.8]

I have a pond of about 1500 gallons with 8 koi and about 4 gold fish.  
I'd like to get some water lillies and/or iris going in it, but they
might not get enough light.  There is some kind of algae (the plant like
rather than the slimy kind, I think it's algae but I'm not
sure) that grows on the bottom in the less shaded areas.  The fish
like to hid in and nibble on it.

bob1@cos.com wrote:

: For those looking forward to a pond, expect to work. Each
: spring I have to pull the koi and put them in holding tanks
: while I pump down the pond and scrub the liner. Since we 
: are on a 300 foot deep well we just use pure well water to
: refill the pond. I figure it is somewher between 600 and
: 800 gallons. 

I wonder if that is due to it being a liner pond or due to it
getting more sun than my concrete pond gets.  The sides and
bottom of my pond seem to stay pretty clean with just a light
coat of algae on some of the sunnier spots.  I did net out
some of the solid algae early in the summer, but the koi would
probably have eaten it back down once the trees leafed out to
shade it more.  It certainly doesn't need scrubbing.

The biggest job I had to do was take all the gravel out of the
filter to give it a thorough cleaning and put a new pump in.  Once
a month (it doesn't need it that often in winter), I vacuum through 
the gravel, but after two years it needed a bit more.  A better 
designed pond would have a way to drain water out the bottom 
and clean out what settles without taking
the whole pond apart.  I've seen plans for them.  My water
quality tests fine, so I haven't felt pressed to upgrade the 
filter that was here when we moved in.

: I am beginning to consider selling off the koi and just
: letting the pond fill up with lilies (I also leave the
: hardy lilies in over winter - they are growing like
: weeds). Pumping down that pond and jumping in to
: scrub it down is getting old - and so am I :-(.

Won't you need some kind of fish to keep the mosquitos down?  

Pat Thaler


From johneplr@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:22 EST 1994
Article: 140 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!not-for-mail
From: johneplr@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (John Epler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 24 Dec 1994 15:59:02 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3di22m$f4o@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
References: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.scri.fsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Butch Bowley (Butch.Bowley@TI.Com) wrote:
: I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres.  I would like to put about a 1/2 acre pond and am concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience controlling these pests?


: Cheers
: butch
Snakes and turtles are not pests; humans are!!!

-- 
John H. Epler, Ph.D., Systematic Entomologist
Rt 3 Box 5485, Crawfordville, FL 32327
phone 904 926 3700    FAX 904 926 8695
johneplr@freenet.scri.fsu.edu


From springer@scruznet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:22 EST 1994
Article: 141 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!springer.sj.scruznet.com!user
From: springer@scruznet.com (John Springer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 18:52:00 -0800
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <springer-2212941852000001@springer.sj.scruznet.com>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: springer.sj.scruznet.com

In article <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>, 

I'm glad to see this group start.  I've wandered through rec.aquaria and
rec.gardens a bit, but there's not much about what I have which is a POND!

We build a 10x10x4 foot roughly concrete pond right in front of the
sliding doors from the living room.  We made a waterfall in the back of
the property and a stream to carry the water to the pond.  We have 8 koi,
several up to 15" long, 2 catfish, and a bunch of little fish that I think
are all koi, though some may be goldfish/koi crosses.

And an occaisonal egret.

-- 
John Springer
 ---penultimate Mac bigot


From springer@scruznet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:23 EST 1994
Article: 142 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!springer.sj.scruznet.com!user
From: springer@scruznet.com (John Springer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 19:02:20 -0800
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <springer-2212941902200001@springer.sj.scruznet.com>
References: <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>
NNTP-Posting-Host: springer.sj.scruznet.com

In article <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>, exudms@exu.ericsson.se wrote:

> It is doing quite well with some small
> koi that I introduced a few months ago and it looks good, but it still has
> a "new" look to it. I was trying to make it look as natural as possible.
> 
After a thorough cleaning and refill, my pond takes at least 2 months to
stabalize.  I go through various kinds of algae growth, and finally the
pond gets crystal clear.  

Summertime sun is always a problem.  We put some trees around the pond but
they aren't big enough to provide much shade yet.  The sun causes heavy
"string" algae growth.  We harvest the algae to remove the nutrients that
the algae takes up.  The fish like to eat it though.

Haven't had any mosquito problems; the fish take care of that. We put in
some pond plants including cattails and a canna (sp?) plant that gets huge
in the summer, and lots of ground cover and water plants around.  We
attract lots of dragonflys and hummingbirds.  An amazing variety of birds
come to bathe in the water.  Had a frog for a while but it disappeared. 
Squirrels come to drink also.

-- 
John Springer
 ---penultimate Mac bigot


From springer@scruznet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:24 EST 1994
Article: 143 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!springer.sj.scruznet.com!user
From: springer@scruznet.com (John Springer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Books
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 19:10:41 -0800
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <springer-2212941910410001@springer.sj.scruznet.com>
References: <3d9he7$870@news.duke.edu> <3dbtk9$a11@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: springer.sj.scruznet.com

In article <3dbtk9$a11@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>, tstrickl@grits
(Timothy Strickland) wrote:


> 
> 1. John Dawes's BOOK OF WATER GARDENS,  ISBN 0-86622-662-1.
> This is a VERY complete book with 14 chapters covering topics from
"Setting the Scene" in Ch.1 to "Selection of Plants for the Pond" Ch.14.
> 
> Suggested readings listed in the back of this book are:
> KOI AND GARDEN PONDS,  ISBN: 0-86622-398-3
> GARDEN PONDS, ISBN: 0-86622-266-9
> WATER GARDENS FOR PLANTS AND FISH, ISBN: 0-866232-942-6
> 
more books...
Garden Pools & Fountains (Ortho book, available at your local pesticide dealer)
Garden Pools (Sunset book, available at your local garden store)
Fishkeepers Guide to Koi (Tetra Press; available at your local fish store).

Another valuable resource:
Koi USA Magazine, P.O. Box 1, Midway City CA 92655.  714/637-3027

-- 
John Springer
 ---penultimate Mac bigot


From springer@scruznet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:25 EST 1994
Article: 144 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!springer.sj.scruznet.com!user
From: springer@scruznet.com (John Springer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Avoiding Pitfalls
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 19:14:37 -0800
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <springer-2212941914370001@springer.sj.scruznet.com>
References: <3d9ob3$gvj@ramp.metro.or.gov> <1994Dec21.140004@ceres>
NNTP-Posting-Host: springer.sj.scruznet.com

In article <1994Dec21.140004@ceres>, mercer@ceres.med.upenn.edu wrote:

> If no one has any objections, I was planning on starting a frequently-asked
> question list for this group (I'm feeling masochistic).  I know the group
> hasn't been here long enough for any question to be asked frequently, but
> I don't think that matters.  

GOOD!

I think the info on books should go in (see a couple of threads back)

J.

-- 
John Springer
 ---penultimate Mac bigot


From paul@gi.alaska.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:25 EST 1994
Article: 145 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.alaska.edu!news
From: paul@gi.alaska.edu (Paul Delys)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 22 Dec 1994 02:16:20 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Institute
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3danhk$nmi@news.alaska.edu>
References: <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu> <3d9sur$1pu@fido.asd.sgi.com>
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In article <3d9sur$1pu@fido.asd.sgi.com>, peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter Orelup) 
says:
>I have a pond about the size you're planning: irregular shape, 18'x11', 3 feet
>deep.  I used a 36 mil butyl rubber liner with nylon fibers for reinforcement.
>I've been very happy with the result.  I used the same material for the 20'
>stream that empties into the pond.  No leaks, no problems.  This material is
>said to last for at least 20 years, even when exposed to direct sun.
>

Pete,

Do you know how well this material holds up in extreme cold, say -50F? Here in 
Fairbanks our temp drops that low for a few weeks every year and I'm wondering if 
the liner would have to be pulled in the fall or if it could overwinter in place.

Thanks

Paul Delys
paul@gi.alaska.edu


From springer@scruznet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:26 EST 1994
Article: 146 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!springer.sj.scruznet.com!user
From: springer@scruznet.com (John Springer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Waterfall Construction
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 19:18:44 -0800
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <springer-2212941918440001@springer.sj.scruznet.com>
References: <epur01-2112941357050001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: springer.sj.scruznet.com

In article <epur01-2112941357050001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>,
epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) wrote:

> Can anyone recommend definitive publications available on the subject of
> waterfall contruction?  I have a large amount of corkstone available for
> such as project but need ideas on construction techniques, materials
> (especially mortars) and plumbing.
> 

I can share some experience...
We made ours out of big rocks and concrete.  Water is pumped up to an
up-flow filter box behind the waterfall.  From the outflow at the top, I
used 2" ABS to route water around the top of the waterfall into an ABS
"spillway".  It drops down the rock face into an old bathtub (buried), and
the overflow from the tub flows down a stream into the pond.  The tub has
large water plants and a few goldfish in it.  They've survived two years
without any attention at all.
Main thing seems to be to make sure you put good lips in where you want
water to spash down.  Otherwise it just slides over edges and you don't
get any noise.

-- 
John Springer
 ---penultimate Mac bigot


From springer@scruznet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:29 EST 1994
Article: 147 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!springer.sj.scruznet.com!user
From: springer@scruznet.com (John Springer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Sucmersible water pumps?
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 19:21:47 -0800
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 12
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References: <3das6f$nhq@nic.umass.edu>
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In article <3das6f$nhq@nic.umass.edu>, tmaynard@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Todd
A Maynard) wrote:

> Does anybody know of a catalog that sell submersible water pumps?  I want 
> to set up a brook and pond system on my property.

Check out Van Ness Water Gardens Phone (909) 982-2425 for a complete color
catalog of pond supplies.

-- 
John Springer
 ---penultimate Mac bigot


From brucels@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:30 EST 1994
Article: 148 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!halsoft.com!netcomsv!netcomsv!netcom.com!brucels
From: brucels@netcom.com (Bruce Shaphran)
Subject: Submersible Water Pumps
Message-ID: <brucelsD18qD8.E2r@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 01:48:44 GMT
Lines: 5

The perfect place to find a submersible water pump would be from a fish 
or aquaiaum store or even a pool supply store.

-- 
                                             brucels@netcom.com


From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:31 EST 1994
Article: 149 of rec.ponds
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From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 22 Dec 1994 22:30:24 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <3ddjp0$kan@pentagon.io.com>
References: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

In article <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>,
Kamin Johnson <kamin_johnson@cellbio.duke.edu> wrote:
>I have heard that if you place a relatively
>shallow pool of water out in the early spring, that mature toads will lay
>eggs in it.

You bet they will. And they'll sing for you all night. Be sure you
can handle that . . . some members of our pond club actually complain
about toads.

>Are there species of fish which would eat the
>mosquitos, but not the tadpoles?

Any of the little "mosquito-fish" species will leave most of your tadpoles
alone. OTOH, if you have a good tadpole crop, not even goldfish will be
able to get them all, if you have surface plants where they can hide.

I also am not sure if the toads need shallow water
>(several inches?) or if a couple feet of water would do as well.

The total depth is not important. What is important is that the toads
be able to get in and OUT of the water easily. A pond surface covered
by lily pads is ideal. Failing that, float some boards. They need to be
able to climb out. They can swim, but they can't swim forever, and if
the edge of the pond is very high it will defeat some toads, especially
those tired after laying eggs. Luring them in and trapping them to drown
is a bad idea . . . 

-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From hrensin@Glue.umd.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:32 EST 1994
Article: 150 of rec.ponds
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From: hrensin@Glue.umd.edu (Howard M Rensin)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How to keep pond water clear ?
Date: 24 Dec 1994 22:00:06 -0500
Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park
Lines: 26
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NNTP-Posting-Host: delta.eng.umd.edu



		UV lamps are now being used in home Jacuzis and other 
such hot tubs sold in the U.S. The water passes in front of a UV lamp at 
the same time that it is split into several small clear tubes and the UV 
shines in to the water.
	It slows down the production of algae and reduces the amount of 
chemicals necessary for the home product.
	I really have my doubts if it would have any significant effect 
in an out door system and especially where you have fish and other 
organizims living. I think you would be wasting your money...BTW, the UV 
lights they use are NOT cheap...

				Howard

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Howard M.Rensin  KC3D 
15221 Centergate Dr.    |  hrensin@eng.umd.edu
Silver Spring, MD.      | 
	20905           | I am taking up a collection to pay for the many
                        | thousands of dollars that this posting will 
                        | cost. Can we count on your support?        
             PGP key on file at key server 
      Fingerprint 90 D0 18 89 0D AB 9D 3B F5 17 C9 6A F3 23 6F A6            
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/



From donn@u.washington.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:32 EST 1994
Article: 151 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!donn
From: donn@u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 25 Dec 1994 03:24:54 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3diom6$3ue@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer01.u.washington.edu

Butch.Bowley@TI.Com (Butch Bowley) writes:

| I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres.  I would like to put about
| a 1/2 acre pond and am concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience
| controlling these pests?

If they don't find food there, they'll probably keep moving.  What that
means for turtles depends on the species; there's a slight chance that
you could find someone knowledgeable about the local varieties at an
agricultural extension service.

Like the rest who've posted, I think turtles are extremely cool.  The
native variety is virtually extinct, but we have the occasional released
pond slider or painted turtle.  On the other hand, there are parts of the
country where the turtles belong to less picturesque species, and in any
case everyone has a different vision of the perfect pond.  May yours be
reasonably free from unwanted visitors.

	Donn Cave, donn@cac.washington.edu


From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:33 EST 1994
Article: 152 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!illuminati.io.com!nobody
From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 22 Dec 1994 22:44:16 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 34
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References: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

In article <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com>,
Butch Bowley <Butch.Bowley@TI.Com> wrote:
>I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres. 
>I would like to put about a 1/2 acre pond and am
>concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience controlling these pests?

A lot of people consider them attractions, rather than pests!

If you really dislike turtles (why? Are they going to eat something
you like better?), your best control method is probably just to
float a nice board in the middle of the pond and pop them with a .22 when
they crawl up to rest. But I don't want to hear about it . . . .
I can't imagine wanting to kill any turtle except maybe a big
snapper, and then only if it was preying on valuable fish.

Snakes are harder. I like snakes, too, but if you live in cottonmouth
country, you could have a problem with a pond that big. I'd say that if
you see cottonmouths, you should just keep
the plants mowed down near the places you want to walk, watch your
step, and carry your defense weapon of choice, be it stick or shotgun,
to deal with any poisonous snake you see. But don't just kill every
snake on sight, because many are harmless and some are useful.
In particular, the king snake will help you control the poisonous ones!

If you are a cat lover, keeping a population of outside cats will help
keep the snakes down. Drawbacks: It's equally hard on poisonous snakes,
non-poisonous snakes, frogs, lizards, songbirds and so on. Your pond's
wildlife will be seriously depauperate if you keep a lot of cats. Also, 
occasionally a snake, raccoon or other representative of the local
wildlife will strike back, and you'll have to bury a cat.

-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From mattk@summit.novell.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:34 EST 1994
Article: 153 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.summit.novell.com!netnews.summit.novell.com!snowtown!mattk
From: mattk@summit.novell.com (Kaufman)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: 25 Dec 1994 13:08:38 GMT
Organization: Novell
Lines: 8
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Peter Jordan (pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:

: Chang, Hsin-pao.  _Commissioner Lin and the Opium War_. 1964.

What in blazes does this have to do with *ponds*? The posting list
seems reasonable except for here (alt.drugs, s.c.china,...)

But _ponds_? Duh-uh.


From dpk@acpub.duke.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:34 EST 1994
Article: 154 of rec.ponds
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From: dpk@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Kanipe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How do you drain a pond?
Date: 25 Dec 1994 07:47:03 GMT
Organization: Duke University
Lines: 56
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In article <3dhp1t$j5c@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu>, pendeea3@wfu.edu (eric addkison pendergrass) says:
>
>This may be a dumb question, but we have a large pond (you might call it 
>a lake) which is partially drained every year to kill weeds.  Well, I was 
>wondering how, technically, one drains a pond.  I know there is some type 
>of valve at the bottom, but how is this kept free of sediment?  Why 
>doesn't all kinds of crap get into it when it's draining?
>
>This is really bothering me.
>
Erik,

Ideally a good farm pond or irrigation pond is constructed with a drain 
valve.  On a pond that drains through an over-flow pipe like most of the 
ones in North Carolina, this is designed by using a T-joint and capping 
the end that is to be used as the drain.  When you need to drain the pond,
you go for a swim and uncap it.  On *large* ponds and those with 
spillways, a seperate drain mechanism is required, usually built into the 
dam.  Here's my attempt at ASCII rendering of a T-Valve.


=
==~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~****~~~~~~~~~~~~~
===		  *  * 
====		  *  *
===== <---(Dam)	  *  * <--- (Overflow Pipe)
======		  *  * 
=======		  *  *
========	  *  *
*******************  ***
		       * <---(Drain Valve) 	
************************
============
=============    
===================================

People with small, shallow ponds can get away with constructing the 
overflow pipe out of 6 inch pvc and simply bending the pipe over at the 
elbow. 

Sediment is kept free by constructing the pond with the pipe at least  
2-3 feet from the floor of the pond.  If you need to take the level lower,
you then use a gas powered irrigation pump.  This is a good theory, but it 
doesn't always work, especially if the pond has not been drained for a 
long period.  I've helped to drain several ponds, and some of them hadn't 
been drained for 20 years or more.  Consequently, sediment had built up 
to or over the level of the drain valve.  Then, the only option was to 
break off the vertical pipe and install a new one.  

If you write to the agricultural agencies of most states, they'll send you
tons of free information on farm pond management.

Hope this helps.

Dean Kanipe
dpk@acpub.duke.edu


From babaji@well.sf.ca.us Fri Dec 30 20:59:35 EST 1994
Article: 155 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uop!pacbell.com!well!babaji
From: babaji@well.sf.ca.us (Mark Keneipp)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond water.
Date: 22 Dec 1994 04:39:21 GMT
Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3davtp$q8j@nkosi.well.com>
References: <3d91dh$43@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]

Mobilewords Limited (mobwords@random.ucs.mun.ca) wrote:
: So does everybody, especially when swimming.
: Spindizzy

I didn't know this newsgroup included discussion of Budweiser (pond water)



From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:36 EST 1994
Article: 156 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!pipex!uunet!illuminati.io.com!nobody
From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Cliff Stoll's article
Date: 21 Dec 1994 23:06:43 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3db1h3$g7d@pentagon.io.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

Thanks, Cliff, for a great little how-to piece! Couple of good
"uncommon sense" tricks there. Would you give permission for that
to be reprinted, with proper attribution, in local pond society
newsletters? I know my group would love to see it.

**************************

I've been water-gardening for several years. My backyard pond is 
not huge, but in the summer we get lily blossoms (we used to have
several colors, but the big white Hal Miller crowded out the others).
Now I keep half-whisky-barrels in several places around the yard,
with yellow Sulfurea and other less-vigorous species. I have goldfish
in the big pond, and lots of little livebearers in everything to
eat mosquitoes.

One of the best parts of water gardening is seeing the dragonflies.
We get several kinds, including a big chunky one we call "Red-Hot".
The males are a brilliant orange-red; the females are brown. The males
are very territorial - we never have more than one around at a time -
but they ignore other species, to the extent of sharing a perch.
Other types of local dragonflies either ignore conspecifics or actually
swarm!

In the summer the plants grow so lushly that I'm always starting new
pots, to give to friends or to take to the local store to swap for
plant species I don't have. Much more fun than just buying them :-)
Anybody in Austin who needs a few more species should get in touch with
me, as I have more pots right now than I do greenhouse room, and 
green taro, water chestnut, dwarf papyrus and umbrella palm are all
free for the taking.
-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca Fri Dec 30 20:59:37 EST 1994
Article: 157 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!cab013.cs.ualberta.ca!pjordan
From: pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca (Peter Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Date: 25 Dec 1994 14:45:44 GMT
Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3dk0io$85n@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <3dbg4r$opa@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> <3djqsm$pd8@bird.summit.novell.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cab013.cs.ualberta.ca

mattk@summit.novell.com (Kaufman) writes:

>Peter Jordan (pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca) wrote:

>: Chang, Hsin-pao.  _Commissioner Lin and the Opium War_. 1964.

>What in blazes does this have to do with *ponds*? The posting list
>seems reasonable except for here (alt.drugs, s.c.china,...)

>But _ponds_? Duh-uh.

It fell in.
		Stuff falls into ponds alright.
Relax.

Peter J.



From pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca Fri Dec 30 20:59:37 EST 1994
Article: 158 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!cab013.cs.ualberta.ca!pjordan
From: pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca (Peter Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How to keep pond water clear ?
Date: 25 Dec 1994 06:22:13 GMT
Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3dj32l$dbc@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <3dhst0$gtg@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com> <3din7m$o5r@delta.eng.umd.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cab013.cs.ualberta.ca

hrensin@Glue.umd.edu (Howard M Rensin) writes:


>	It slows down the production of algae and reduces the amount of 
>chemicals necessary for the home product.
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/



Man , algae is what ponds are all about. That and mosquitoes, snakes,
turtles . . . birds ....... the occasional skunk.

	They should never have called this group rec.ponds .....
no wait, thats exactly right :


	WrecK.ponds


*	*	*	*	*	*	*	*	*	*


Peter J.


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:38 EST 1994
Article: 159 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:33:15 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <carienix-211294113315@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu

In article <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>, tstrickl@grits
(Timothy Strickland) wrote:

> You do not know how pleased I was to be prompted for this group.
> 
> I am in the planning stages for constructing a garden pond for my wife. I have  looked at all of the prefab ponds available at our local Lowes store, but none  of them are as large as I am looking for.
> 
> I am planning an irregular shaped, kind of a double kidney, pond about 20 x 12  and 3 to 4 foot deep. I am unsure if I should use a lining or concrete. I have  experiance with concrete, but I am not sure about the expence of such a large   project.
> 
I don't know where you live, but I will give a few suggestions.  Concrete
does not work real well where the ground freezes.  The yearly (or more
often) freezing and thawing causes the concrete to crack.  It can be
maintained by patching, but does need to be watched closely, and sometimes
repaired often.  I have one that has had to have major repairs once, and
now just takes some annual "touch ups".  (it is very old, though, maybe 50
years).  I really like my ponds that have liners.  They are much easier to
intall than the prefab pond (you have to get the hole just right for a
prefab), and you can make them any size or shape.  The butyl rubber is the
best, they say, (although there are some new pvc liners that sound real
good).  The butyl rubber can last up to 50 years, and the pvc liners (the
older ones) about 30 years.  They are easily patched  (my dad had to patch
his when the neighbors golden reteiver punctured it with his claws), and
are also not too hard to replace if you need to.  These liners are
flexable, and the freezing and thawing does not seem to bother them at all.


From sstaffan@aton.abo.fi Fri Dec 30 20:59:39 EST 1994
Article: 160 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!sunic!news.tele.fi!news.funet.fi!news.abo.fi!aton.abo.fi!not-for-mail
From: sstaffan@aton.abo.fi (Simon Staffans IS)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,alt.1d
Subject: Re: Pond life
Date: 25 Dec 1994 18:57:49 +0200
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Lines: 9
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.ponds:160 alt.1d:18589

Now wasn't it Blur who sang Pond Life?

Look at all the fishes swimming round and round
POND LIFE

Yes, it is stupid and no, I haven't got anything better to...hang on!
Just thought of something! I'm off, happy New Years!




From slbailey@bu.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:40 EST 1994
Article: 161 of rec.ponds
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From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Urban micro wetlands
Date: 21 Dec 1994 17:43:39 GMT
Organization: Boston University
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I have a pond 4'x6'x24 inches deep -- small enough?

Fish eat the mosquito larvae.  In the north, fish freeze solid and die over
winter, so my biggest problem is figuring out how to handle that problem,
since my in-laws consider me a murderer from the times I just let the little
devils croak!!! (Hey, I now buy feeder goldfish, about 2 dozen, in the spring.
About a dozen survive.  They cost less than $2 a dozen, and grow up to look
almost like koi, if you're not a fussy koi breeder!!!)(This year they are
in a tub in the basement, but I resent having to pay $25 for the tub and
$35 for the necessary filter to maintain them, not to mention food,
electricity, and hassles...)

Anyhow, catalogs like LilyPons, give ratios of inches of fish to volume of
water to oxygenator plants which can be used for a filterless system. NICE
ponds often have filters anyhow (increases the number of fish that you
can keep) and waterfalls and stuff like that.  It does require electricity
(GFCI of course) at the pond site, which is not feasible for my pond 
in my granite filled yard... It's all up to you.

There are also dunks of Bt (the same basic stuff used to kill gypsey moths,
except a special variety for mosquitoes) that you can float on the pondwater
to control mosquitoes without fish.  

Unless you have standing water on your property and clay soil for an earth
bottom pond, one issue for a mini-wetlands is the liner you will otherwise
need to use.  Wetlands animal life (frogs, etc.) that burrow into the mud
can't burrow into rubber!  You may need to top your liner bottom with silt
and mud to emulate the real world, and recognize that there will always be
SOME limitations imposed by the FACT of the artificiality of the pond, though
probably these issues are minimal if well planned for.

Read up!

Sherry



From hendy@cisco.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:40 EST 1994
Article: 162 of rec.ponds
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From: hendy@cisco.com (Hendy)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 18:27:21 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Inc.
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <hendy-2112941033320001@macip-dialup-046.cisco.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: macip-dialup-046.cisco.com

Yes, I'm buried in the middle of the Silicon Valley, without a bit of Ma
Earth to call my own.

I grew up with man-made ponds - a small one (3'x3'x3') at my first home,
then a larger one (6'x8'x3', elevated - the sides make a great bench!). My
folks built them both, and stocked them with goldfish.  A few fancies
(moors, lionheads, etc.), but mostly... would you believe feeder
goldfish?  (Side note - isn't it nifty how goldfish will grow to fit their
space?  A 1" feeder fish grew to 5" in one year.)

Their pond has a waterfall with two small pools feeding in to it.  The
birds (jays, woodpeckers, towees, doves, chickadees - all kinds!) love the
two little pools for baths, drinking, etc. (no chemicals used!).  The main
pond is visited regularly by racoons and other critters that go "bump" in
the night; my folks haven't seen most of their nocturnal visitors, but I'm
guessing there's possum visiting in addition to the neighborhood cats. 
They do put a screen over the pond at night as a preventative measure
against the cats - 1/4" mesh nailed to a frame built of 2"x2"s. 
Frustrates the poor racoon who just wants to wash his food, but the two
small pools seem to do.

Maintenance is practically non-existent.  The waterfall seems to provide
enough aeration.  The algae buildup is self-correcting - too much algae
and the amount of light is cut, killing off the algae.  Mosquito control
is provided by what we always called "tree frogs" - little frogs about 3"
long that spawn in the pond every spring and make more noise than you'd
think possible from something that small!  Being in the Santa Cruz
mountains of California, they don't do much to winterize other than pull
the water lillies from the pond.  The fish get fed once a day (they'll eat
out of your hand!), and a few drops of ick-preventer in the water takes
care of the rest.

Enough about my parents' pond (Yes, I'll get to the point already!).  What
*I'm* looking for is suggestions for someone who LOVES ponds, but is stuck
with a decent-sized balcony instead of a backyard.  The complex I live in
is nicely landscaped, and there are lots of little waterways running about
- completely chemically sterilized, of course.  Doesn't seem to bother the
ducks, but there's no other life out there!

I don't want a fishtank (I don't want to give my landlords the extra $200
security deposit "in case the tank leaks").  I *do* want something that
can hold a few small goldfish in addition to selected plant life.  I'd
also like it to NOT look like a large plastic bucket with a few plants
stuck in it (the best idea I could come up with).

Any creative ideas?

Apologies for the jabber - I'm reminiscing and realizing just how much I
enjoy settling down by the pond for summer sunsets!  I need to visit my
parents more often...

- Hendy

*********************************************************************
Hendy Lund                         hendy@cisco.com
"To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.  Moderation is 
for monks"       - L.  Long
*********************************************************************


From drescher@metro.or.gov Fri Dec 30 20:59:41 EST 1994
Article: 163 of rec.ponds
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From: drescher@metro.or.gov (Dave Drescher)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 21 Dec 1994 19:13:05 GMT
Organization: METRO
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Where is the best place to buy the liners?

Dave


From Tim.Llewellyn@bristol.ac.uk Fri Dec 30 20:59:42 EST 1994
Article: 164 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: tjl@siva.bris.ac.uk (Tim Llewellyn)
Subject: Noisy Ponds 
Message-ID: <D16E30.D6z@info.bris.ac.uk>
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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 19:28:11 GMT



My next door neighbour has a pond. He keeps upgrading it (=> making
lots of noise in the morning when I'm usually trying to sleep).

Anyway, he has some kind of water-purifier fountain type things thats
REAL noisy and he runs it 24*7*365. People who live up the street have
asked me how I can live with it, but the gurgling and splashing isn't
TOO annoying and I can even tell the difference between it and rain now
(it is louder than all but the heaviest rain, we're talking small urban
terraced houses here).

So anyway, seeing this group just started, I guess there might be
people here who know whether it REALLY is necessary for him to run this
fountain 24 hours a day. Would turning it off at night really be that
bad. btw he does have some fish.

TIA

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------+------------------+
Tim Llewellyn - OpenVMS, Soukous and Cricket Addict  |Hey, and get wise |
Physicist Programmer, Bristol Uni Particle Physics.  | to the sounds of |
HEPNET/SPAN 19716::TJL Internet tjl@siva.bris.ac.uk  |   Africa,seen.   |
I speak for me and noone else OK (and I might even   | Soukous  Makossa |
change my mind sometimes!-) Atari and EMagic user too| Mbalax   Rumba...|
-----------------------------------------------------+------------------+


From capek@tapir.cig.mot.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:43 EST 1994
Article: 165 of rec.ponds
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From: capek@tapir.cig.mot.com (Tom Capek @708-342-5639)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Date: 21 Dec 1994 19:21:32 GMT
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Lines: 40
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NNTP-Posting-Host: tapir.rtsg.mot.com

In article <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu> tstrickl@grits (Timothy Strickland) writes:
>You do not know how pleased I was to be prompted for this group.
>
>I am in the planning stages for constructing a garden pond for my wife. I have  looked at all of the prefab ponds available at our local Lowes store, but none  of them are as large as I am looking for.
>
>I am planning an irregular shaped, kind of a double kidney, pond about 20 x 12  and 3 to 4 foot deep. I am unsure if I should use a lining or concrete. I have  experiance with concrete, but I am not sure about the expence of such a large   project.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks
>
>T.W. Strickland
>

My wife and I built one this past fall in our back yard and used a heavy
rubber mat designer especially for this use.  It is thick, maybe 60 mils
or more, and came in 12 foot widths.  We used 20 continuous feet in a
multilevel, waterfall equipped landscaping pond.  We used a 200+ gallon
per hour sump pump, piped through 5/8" radiator heater hose, and a
1/2" gate valve to regulate flow.  The key is meticulous preparation
of the sides and bottom.  You don't want ANY seams in your liner, nor
do you want anything sharp that could wear through it.  Water will find
any crack and even seep through overlapped liners.  The only way to
handle big ponds is to vulcanize the seams.  The birds absolutely enjoy
the waterfall.  Big territorial fights by, at one time, over a dozen birds.
It is lit for a few hours in the evening and is very enjoyable to watch.

This spring comes the plants, telapia, frogs, turtles, etc.

I would DEFINITELY avoid concrete.  Unless you plan on a reinforced thickness
of over 3", freezing temps will crack it up.  Plus, any sizeable structure
of concrete will require a building permit.  The liner allows you to do complex
shapes easily and to make a nice transition to the edge trim to hide the liner.


-- 
+---  O      __ ---------------------------------------------------------+
|     |\_____||  - 'Welcome honored guests'  - 'Fifty Million!'          |
|     | |-----|  - 'Triple Jackpot!'         - 'Sorry old man'    UGH!   |
+--- / \|     | ---------- Tom M. Capek  e-mail capek@cig.mot.com ------+


From WhiteisD@Magic.DCRT.NIH.GOV Fri Dec 30 20:59:43 EST 1994
Article: 166 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
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From: WhiteisD@Magic.DCRT.NIH.GOV (David Whiteis)
Subject: rec.ponds?
Message-ID: <WhiteisD-2112941609100001@dewpmac.dcrt.nih.gov>
Sender: postman@alw.nih.gov (AMDS Postmaster)
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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 21:09:10 GMT
Lines: 2

So, like, is this newsgroup about ponds like frogs and turtles ponds? (I
hope so, I think that's a great subject for a newsgroup.)  Anybody around?


From ez042775@dale.ucdavis.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:47 EST 1994
Article: 167 of rec.ponds
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From: ez042775@dale.ucdavis.edu (John Crayon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 25 Dec 1994 18:37:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis
Lines: 41
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Steve Jackson (sj@pentagon.io.com) wrote:
: Butch Bowley <Butch.Bowley@TI.Com> wrote:
: >I ... am
: >concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience controlling these pests?

:  your best control method is probably just to
: float a nice board in the middle of the pond and pop them with a .22 when
: they crawl up to rest. But I don't want to hear about it . . . .


This is incredibly irresponsible advice!  And, depending upon where Butch 
lives, you have just advised him to violate Federal laws.  Can you say 
"Endangered Species Act"?

Many species of turtles are in serious decline in this country, and it is 
often the case that human activities have exacerbated the problem.  
Indiscriminately shooting turtles without regard to their species (and no 
one has identified the turtles in question in this post) is one of the 
dynamics that has led to their decline in certain areas. 

I was ecstatic to see this group come on line.  It's provided enormous 
vicarious enjoyment for me as I've listened in on all the fun pond owners 
are having.  I'm temporarily unable to have a pond of my own, and can't 
wait until I'm posting in this group as a participant. 

I had hoped that, if anywhere, this would be a place where people had some
real appreciation of the unique diversity of life that is adapted to
wetlands/ponds.  Sure, nobody wants snapping turtles, poisonous snakes, or
raccoons trashing their artificial mini-ecosystem.  I'd be as quick as the
next person to remove a pest from my own pond.  But some of the readers of
this newsgroup are fortunate to have ponds large enough to be considered
legitimate widlife habitat.  And it may be habitat in an area where the
naturally occurring habitat is in decline, or seriously degraded.  In such
a case, the ethical implications of animal control are clearly different,
especially if you've attracted a species which is in trouble in the wild. 

My apologies for the lecture, and my thanks to all of you who, through 
your interest, are helping to foster an appreciation of aquatic life forms.

		Jack Crayon     E-mail: jjcrayon@ucdavis.edu



From randy_witlicki@lebanon.valley.net Fri Dec 30 20:59:48 EST 1994
Article: 168 of rec.ponds
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From: Randy_Witlicki@lebanon.valley.net (Randy Witlicki)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: LillyPons Address?
Date: 21 Dec 1994 19:56:04 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Reply-To: randy_witlicki@lebanon.valley.net
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6

I've seen some references to a company called LillyPons.
Can somebody post their address/phone number?  Maybe this can make
it into the FAQ.

Also:  Anybody have good sources for waterfall equipment? The pump
selection in the Edmund Scientific catalog is pretty limited.

Thanks.

- Randy



From ritchiek@expert.cc.purdue.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:49 EST 1994
Article: 169 of rec.ponds
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From: ritchiek@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Karen Ritchie)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Books
Date: 21 Dec 1994 15:44:10 -0500
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 6
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References: <3d9he7$870@news.duke.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: expert.cc.purdue.edu

	I recently read a good construction book for larger ponds
called "Earth Ponds"  It is available from the Real Goods Catalog.
Sorry I don't remember the Authors name right now.  It also talked 
about pond restroration.  -Karen Stegmeier (who recently bought a
pond  that needs some restoration ~.5-1 acre)



From hrensin@Glue.umd.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:50 EST 1994
Article: 170 of rec.ponds
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From: hrensin@Glue.umd.edu (Howard M Rensin)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 21 Dec 1994 16:17:42 -0500
Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park
Lines: 17
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NNTP-Posting-Host: delta.eng.umd.edu


Yes...I am here. As the owner of 12 acres of land in Howard County,MD and 
getting ready to build a home with a pond, I have encountered the worst 
beurocratic mess and more trouble trying to do something nice to my 
property...Glad to see the group get started..

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Howard M.Rensin  KC3D 
15221 Centergate Dr.    |  hrensin@eng.umd.edu
Silver Spring, MD.      | 
	20905           | I am taking up a collection to pay for the many
                        | thousands of dollars that this posting will 
                        | cost. Can we count on your support?        
             PGP key on file at key server 
      Fingerprint 90 D0 18 89 0D AB 9D 3B F5 17 C9 6A F3 23 6F A6            
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/
 


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:50 EST 1994
Article: 171 of rec.ponds
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From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 15:25:44 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <carienix-211294152544@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu

In article <kamin_johnson-2112941602480001@fiddle.cellbio.duke.edu>,
kamin_johnson@cellbio.duke.edu (Kamin Johnson) wrote:

> Hi,
> I am really glad to see this newsgroup is finally on line.  I am hoping to
> get a little advice for a backyard project.  I live in a semi-wooded
> suburban neighborhood and have been gradually naturalizing my yard.  I
> would like to put in a small water source  to attract toads and birds to
> the yard.  I'd like to have them around, particularly the toads, to munch
> on the bugs in the yard.  I have heard that if you place a relatively
> shallow pool of water out in the early spring, that mature toads will lay
> eggs in it.  I have access to a bunch of plastic 55 gallon drums, so I was
> thinking I could cut one of these in half, sink it in the ground and
> create a small artifical pond for them.  I would like to include a few
> small fish to eat the mosquito larve, but I imagine they would also
> chow-down the tadpoles. Are there species of fish which would eat the
> mosquitos, but not the tadpoles?  I would like to place a plant in it and
> some around it to dress it up a bit, but I realize that space will be
> extremely limited.  I also am not sure if the toads need shallow water
> (several inches?) or if a couple feet of water would do as well.  I hope
> to build a much larger pond in the future, but I thought this might give
> me a quick, cheap way to get started and experiment. Any suggestions for
> fish, plants, etc?

As for attracting toads, "If you build it they will come...and come...and
come..."  I have toads all over my ponds.  We had never seen one or heard
one in our yard, but once we built our first pond, there were about 10. 
This year we counted 85 one evening. Some of the ponds are 8 inches deep,
some are 2 to 3 feet deep.  There are toads.  They need plenty of algae for
food.  You might want to add a little fertilizer (garden fertilizer is
fine) if you don't have any.  (Be careful not to over do it)  I have small
goldfish, topminnows and medium goldfish that seem to leave the toads
alone.  (They apparently are distasteful, so if other food is present, they
will eat it first).  The pond with the koi and large goldfish, seems to
have quite a bit fewer tadpoles even though they have more spawning toads. 
I guess if you stick to a few smaller fish, you should be OK.

> I am also curious about the possible legal problems that could arise from
> having a small pond in your yard.  What if the neighboor's toy poodle, or
> worse yet 2 year old child wanders into your yard, unsupervised and falls
> into your fish pond and drowns?  Do you have to put up fences, warning
> signs, and barricades in order to protect yourself from lawsuits?  


I would check your local codes.  There will usually be some kind of rule if
you live in town.  (I live out where there is an average of one house per
mile.)  It is likely that you will have to fence your yard just like you
would have to for a swimming pool.  It would be an attractive hazzard.


From xopamondo@shoreline.ca Fri Dec 30 20:59:51 EST 1994
Article: 172 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!cow!pig
From: Xopamondo <xopamondo@shoreline.ca>
Subject: Lets the games begin
Sender: news@cow.shoreline.ca
Organization: Shoreline BBS, Vancouver
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 21:59:15 GMT
X-Newsreader: SL2 Usenet UA
Message-ID: <495691@shoreline.ca>
Lines: 9

Well I was hoping to read some stimulating discussion of ponds before I 
set up my own backyard eco-system.

What things should I be aware of  that others learned the hard way?

________________________________________________
xopamondo@shoreline.ca - The Truth is Out There 
   Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
________________________________________________


From SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:52 EST 1994
Article: 173 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!omni!SirWill1
From: SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 22 Dec 1994 01:17:27 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <3dak37$f5h@nova.voicenet.com>
References: <trg1.50.08BC5AE0@ins.infonet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: omni.voicenet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Tim Prachar (trg1@ins.infonet.net) wrote:

: I'm content with the current system, but want to know if others out there have
: tried (successfully or not) to winter fish in similarly sized ponds without 
: trying to maintain open water?  I am assuming that oxygen starvation will 
: result because of the small size otherise.

I think the climate here in eastern PA may be a bit more temperate than 
yours but we don't take any action to maintain a hole in the ice. We've 
had the pond for 10 years and we'va always done a very thorough cleanup 
in September involving a complete take down, catching all the fish, 
scrubing down the liner, refilling and restocking. We then put up a dome 
frame made of 1/2 inch PVC and cover it with birdnetting to keep leaves 
>from  falling in. I go in once in October and remove the remaining brown 
foliage from the lilies.
So the pond goes into the winter with the water crystal clear and an 
absolute minimum of detritus on the bottom. Comet goldfish survive. We've 
lost _some_ fancies, others have lived for years. Black moors will not 
winter over - we lost them two years in a row and gave up. Can't see 'em 
in the summer anyway (sour grapes, anyone?)
Oh, we also stop water circulation for the duration of the winter. To 
give you an idea of the climate the surface hasn't frozen over yet. 
January and February will bring a frozen surface. Some years it freezes 
and thaws repeatedly. Others yield a 7 inch thick slab of ice in the 
spring. Go figure.
The pond holds 750 gallons and there are about 30 comets in it ranging 
>from  4 inches to a foot long. There's one 18 inch long Koi.

--
     / S'Will  -  SubGenius ArchBishop of CandorBury \ 
   *~                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  *  ObSig:              SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com | ...and in the end   *
 *                                                  | the slack you take   *
<   Flying Saucer >> Flying Teacup >> Flying Teapot |     is equal to       >
 *  Tune in to pirate station radio.gnome.invisible | the slack you make   *
  *                                                                       *
   \   http://www.voicenet.com/voicenet/homepages/SirWill1/slack.html    /
    \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+^+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
                           


From colacino@herald.usask.ca Fri Dec 30 20:59:53 EST 1994
Article: 174 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!tribune.usask.ca!herald.usask.ca!colacino
From: colacino@herald.usask.ca (S Colacino)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: 22 Dec 1994 02:23:54 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <3danvq$qqo@tribune.usask.ca>
References: <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca> <3da97fINN5da@twain.ucs.umass.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.usask.ca
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Mike Barnard (mbarnard@twain.ucs.umass.edu) wrote:
: In article <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca>,
: S Colacino <colacino@herald.usask.ca> wrote:
: >I like to piss in ponds.

: 	So do I, so do I! In fact, I rather enjoy sneaking into the
: backyards of people who have artificial ponds and whizzin' into the suckers.
: However, I DO defend fishes' rights to the death, so I allow a little time
: (say, a couple of days) for the urine to dissipate before I come back and do
: it again. Remember: fish butchery is a CRIME and most importantly - FISH ARE
: YOUR FRIENDS! Frogs, however, are fair game. FROG BASEBALL!!! I just wish
: people would stop catchin' on to what I'm doing and putting up electric
: fences around their ponds. As we all should know, it's a bad idea to whiz on
: an electric fence.
I like to cut the electric fence and run a wire into the pond.  Fry 
fishies FRY!!!
Better yet is to put some sort of fish loving carnivor into the pond.  
like a small aligator or a large turtle.  


: 	Seriously, though, I was simply AMAZED to find a new newsgroup (new
: at this site, anyway) called rec.ponds. This ain't no alt hierarchy; it
: takes some serious interest to get a rec group started, and I just couldn't
: BELIEVE there were THAT many people interested in ponds as a recreational
: outlet. Of course, I HAD to check it out, and sure enough - ponds. Private
: pond ownership and management. THAT'S what's going on here. Go figure. You
: know, I always wanted a pond in my backyard. Now I know where to go when it
: comes time in my life for a pond of my own.

And I'll be right there to piss in it,

: -- 
: |  Mike Barnard                 | finger for PGP public key, Geek 
  |
: | mbarnard@twain.ucs.umass.edu | and more information than you EVER      |
: | Freelance Troublemaker, Fish | wanted to know about me. ;-)            |
: | Rights Activist, BLO Founder |                                         |


From jsheehy@shell.portal.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:53 EST 1994
Article: 175 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!decwrl!svc.portal.com!shell.portal.com!jsheehy
From: jsheehy@shell.portal.com (John P Sheehy)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pissing.
Date: 22 Dec 1994 03:34:29 GMT
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3das45$rbq@news1.shell>
References: <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com

In article <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca>,
S Colacino <colacino@herald.usask.ca> wrote:
>I like to piss in ponds.

Yeah, I remember my first beer.  They didn't have the Internet back then,
though.

John Sheehy <jsheehy@shell.portal.com>



From jfeinstein@umassd.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:54 EST 1994
Article: 176 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell.uml.edu!umassd.edu!mdcs.umassd.edu!JFEINSTEIN
From: jfeinstein@umassd.edu (Jonathan E. Feinstein)
Subject: Re: Waterfall Construction
Message-ID: <D170yv.ApB@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: jfeinstein@umassd.edu
Organization: UMass Dartmouth, N. Dartmouth, MA.
References: <epur01-2112941357050001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 03:42:28 GMT
Lines: 80

In article <epur01-2112941357050001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>, epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:
>Can anyone recommend definitive publications available on the subject of
>waterfall contruction?  I have a large amount of corkstone available for
>such as project but need ideas on construction techniques, materials
>(especially mortars) and plumbing.
>
>Any experts out there?
>
Hi, Don!

    I've built a couple waterfalls. Don't know that it makes me an expert,
but I'll be glad to share my experience. I haven't seen any publications
that really went into detail on waterfall construction, but I probably
just missed them.

    What I did was dig out the pond first. In the planning process I worked
out where the black vinyl hose would go. The first time I did it, I was able
to build a hidden trench that ran under the lowest stone of the fall so the 
hose went under and behind. With the liner in place (or cement etc., depending 
on your choice of material) I finished the rim of the pond with the last step
of the fall placed first and then the rest of the rim (I used Pennsylvania
red stone the first time, which is expensive where I live (SE Mass), but very 
pretty). Then came the building of the rest of the fall. I worked with a
pile of stones and a watering can. The dirt from the pond hole was now a mound
behind the pond so I already had a rough idea of what the fall would look like.
Each time I placed a stone I used the watering can to make sure that the 
water would flow into the pond, rather than out of it. It takes a bit of 
patience but is not particularly hard since if a rock slants the wrong way,
you can always either turn it or wedge it at whatever angle you like.

    The second time I made a major error and I'll 
share this as well. Take it as a cautionary tale...

    I moved a few years ago and was unwilling to live pondless for more than 
a year. In the process of clearing my vegetable garden, I found several
large chunks of granito-diorite for which SE Massachusetts is justly famous.
The largest piece, I saw would be a perfect last step for my planned fall,
but it was so large, that I had to hook a chain on my car just to get it out
of the ground. The to get it in place I had to use the car to drag it across 
the yard. Well, not wanting to hire someone with heavy equipment to place
that stone (very expensive! and I didn't have as much spare change this time
around) after the pond was built and because of the terraine I decided to 
place the stone before digging the pond (BAD idea!!!). After three days 
of musculing that rock around with a six-foot crow bar, I finally got it 
in place and proceeded to dig the pond. It all went well until it came time
put the liner in. The pond, you see, undercuts the bottom rock by several 
inches (otherwise you lose much of the tickling effect) and the rock (I don't
know how heavy it is, but I know I can handle a 200 pound hunk without too
much strain, this was much heavier!) was too massive to lift and put the 
liner under. I used a bit of extra liner and used spikes to pin it all 
in place. Sounds silly but it worked, the extra liner length allowed me 
to protect the spike holes from the water. Then I finished tÿhe pond as above.

    However, when the waterfall was activated I started having troubles. The 
next morning I woke up to find that all the water had been pumped out of the 
pond and was now to be found under the liner. Thinking I had misalligned the
stones of the fall, I spent several hours checking all the angles and decided 
that a slow drip of water had been getting around the back of the fall and 
because the liner did not extend under the fall like it had the first time
I built a pond it wasn't getting back into the pond. So I rebuilt the fall, 
using a lot of spare liner material to make sure that spills would be 
redirected back into the pond. Two days later I woke up to the same problem,
water under the liner and the pump running on empty. I repeated the above
performance and thought I found a side leak (It was just a splash, but...), 
so I corrected that but the water problem reappeared. That was when I 
discovered that not all the water spilling over the bottom stone was dripping 
straight off the lip, Some of it was hanging on and flowing along the bottom 
of the rock until it hit the back of the pond before dropping. By capillary 
action the water was getting behind the liner, even though the edge was 
over an inch above the water level. For three weeks I searched for a solution
before finally finding a vinyl caulk that would adhere to both the liner and 
the stone _and_ would be effective when submerged. The good news was that I 
didn't have to totally rebuild the pond, but the true moral of the story is
don't be cheap!

			---------------------
   			JFeinstein@umassd.edu
        		---------------------

		Immortality is something you need to grow into.


From tmaynard@twain.ucs.umass.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:55 EST 1994
Article: 177 of rec.ponds
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From: tmaynard@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Todd A Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Sucmersible water pumps?
Date: 22 Dec 1994 03:35:43 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <3das6f$nhq@nic.umass.edu>
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Does anybody know of a catalog that sell submersible water pumps?  I want 
to set up a brook and pond system on my property.

Thank you.

Feel free to post here, or E-mail me at tmaynard@student.umass.edu.




From hbpol028@huey.csun.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:56 EST 1994
Article: 178 of rec.ponds
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From: hbpol028@huey.csun.edu (Michael McGarr)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,alt.1d
Subject: Re: Pond life
Followup-To: rec.ponds,alt.1d
Date: 26 Dec 1994 00:31:27 GMT
Organization: California State University, Northridge
Lines: 37
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.ponds:178 alt.1d:18626

S|ren Erichsen (nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk) wrote:
> brian p moloney (molo2839@mary.cs.fredonia.edu) wrote:
> : Hi!
> :  If this group is about ponds with fish and other good stuff
> : then here goes:

> :  My family has been keeping a pond for about a year now.  As 
> : far as ponds go that is probably not too long.  But we have done
> : well so far after a few problems.  Some of our fish became victims
> : of airborne predators.

> That GUS! Creating a family crisis! <tsk> <tsk>

> :  They got the biggest fish of course.  But 
> : now that is under control for now.  If anybody wants to talk ponds
> : then write here!!  If this group is not about this type of ponds then
> : let me know


> : Brian Moloney
> : Internet: moloney2839@fredonia.edu
> : SUNY- College at Fredonia 
> : Fredonia, NY 14063

> 	the (Maybe This Is Not A Place For Me) Duck

>From  'Bird Song" by the Grateful Dead

All I know is something like a bird within (him) sang,
All I know (he) sang a little while and then flew on.

Michael
(waving at the spot where the Duck used to be.  Hope you find a home)
--
Michael
(working on a more, um, *universal* .sig)



From dpk@acpub.duke.edu Fri Dec 30 20:59:56 EST 1994
Article: 179 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!usenet
From: dpk@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Kanipe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond buried
Date: 26 Dec 1994 10:17:09 GMT
Organization: Duke University
Lines: 20
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References: <3deilr$jpn@news.bu.edu>
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1

In article <3deilr$jpn@news.bu.edu>, sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig) says:
>
>Many decades ago, my grandparents built
>several attractive ponds around their cottage.
>One in particular was about 4 feet deep with
>a stone border (like a swimming pool) which
>they filled with waterlilies and goldfish.
>In the early '70s this pond was filled in, completely,
>with sand. All you can see now is the stone border.
>Should I try to bring it back?

Samme,

What state are the ponds in?  (Is Mass right?) I imagine that if you are 
too far north, frost may have cracked the ponds.  (I'm assuming from the 
age of the ponds that they are concrete.)  Still, it never hurts to try.
Excavate the pond and see if it holds water.  You may have to wait until 
warmer weather.

dpk


From kywoman2@aol.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:57 EST 1994
Article: 180 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Noisy Ponds
Date: 25 Dec 1994 20:37:57 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3dl6pl$l2l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <trg1.49.08B26F3C@ins.infonet.net>
Reply-To: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)

>Is it REALLY necessary for him to run this fountain 24 hours a day<

Maybe not in UK, but it IS necessary in certain areas where the air and
water temps get quite warm.  Warm water holds alot less oxygen than does
cool water.  The fountain helps in adding oxygen to the water.    Not a
really big deal if the pond is understocked, but if you're running at full
throttle with the fish, you'd better make sure they've got plenty of oxy
or you'll go out one morning and find some belly up.


From kywoman2@aol.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:58 EST 1994
Article: 181 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 25 Dec 1994 20:51:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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References: <3dke5u$k7o@mark.ucdavis.edu>
Reply-To: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)

I'm not necessarily against snakes getting into the pond...... UNLESS it
happens to be a Cottonmouth and it's plan for lunch is one of my koi. 
This happened a few years back,  and the Cottonmouth did kill one of the
smaller koi.  I can say that it was "history" before it had a chance to
get another one! 

We covered the pond with a net and kept a close eye on the pond.  Sure
enough, about three days later, the snake decided it was time to head back
to the pond.  It became ensnared in the netting..... and.... well.... that
was the end of that tune. 


From kywoman2@aol.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:59 EST 1994
Article: 182 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Any body heard of Aquatic Bio Tecnologies or Clear Pond
Date: 25 Dec 1994 20:55:58 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3dl7re$l64@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <warfin.4.00149F73@primenet.com>
Reply-To: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)

Clear Pond is a bacteria culture that you put in a new pond to help
establish the biological filtration.  I *think* that Aquatic Bio
Technologies is the company who manufactures it.

Rachel


From Paul_von_Behren@stortek.com Fri Dec 30 20:59:59 EST 1994
Article: 183 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!hookup!news.kei.com!ub!csn!stortek!paulvb!pvb
From: pvb@paulvb.stortek.com (Paul von Behren)
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Message-ID: <D1EGIE.CLC@stortek.com>
Sender: news@stortek.com
Reply-To: Paul_von_Behren@stortek.com
Organization: Storage Technology Corporation
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References: <trg1.50.08BC5AE0@ins.infonet.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 04:01:25 GMT
Lines: 18

I have a similar size pond - no heater but pump runs all winter.

This is my second winter with a ~1000 gallon pond.   It's about 3 feet deep
at the deepest - with about a foot of rocks in the deep part thanks to
raccoons - and a liner.  Colorado (Boulder) weather gets cold - we've had
several single digit degree F nights this winter - but the temp swings up
frequently; yesterday was around 60.  I leave the Koi, comets, and
shubunken(sp?) in the pond with no heater, but I leave a pump running all
winter.  It pumps from a Little Giant cheap box/sponge filter with a 500 GPH
pump.  I clean the sponge and change some water as the weather allows.  The
koi are mostly black and are too numerous to count, but it doesn't appear
that I've lost any of the older ones.  I haven't lost any of the non-koi.  I
noticed about 8 koi babies in october and I've only seen a couple the last
couple days.

--
-------------------------------------------------
Paul von Behren       Paul_von_Behren@stortek.com


From trg1@ins.infonet.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:01 EST 1994
Article: 184 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!s137.infonet.net!trg1
From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: uk person needs advice
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 13:26:36 cdt
Organization: Technology Resource Group
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <trg1.54.03D56840@ins.infonet.net>
References: <D19Gx4.MLy@hfnet.bt.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: s137.infonet.net
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]

In article <D19Gx4.MLy@hfnet.bt.co.uk> mike.ward@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Mike Ward) writes:
>From: mike.ward@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Mike Ward)
>Subject: uk person needs advice
>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 11:22:15 GMT

>Hi,

>Nice to see this pond feature.

>I need some advice from a cleaver contributer.

>I live in England and I have a moderate sized pond (for the UK) of 9 feet
>6 feet x 2.5 feet deep. My problem is that when it rains - which
>in England happens a lot! the pond quickly fills up. Now at the moment
>I get out there with a bucket and empty the exess down the drain.
>Does anyone have a cleaverer solution to this as I'm starting to get too
>fit for my own good!

>thanks

>Mike

Is you pond below the surrounding ground level?  I made that mistake on my 
first pond, and the mistake was VERY obvious after the first good rain.  My 
nice clear water became mud.  I waited a month for it to clear on its own, and 
then gave-up and rebuilt it after that.  I try to make sure now that the top 
of the pond is now just slightly (an inch or so) above the surrounding ground 
to prevent the run-off problem.

Perhaps you could place a hose in the pond that drains to an area below the 
level at which you want the water in the pond.  Make sure to put the inlet (in 
the pond) of the hose at the level you want, otherwise you might siphon the 
water out.



From trg1@ins.infonet.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:02 EST 1994
Article: 185 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!insosf1.infonet.net!s137.infonet.net!trg1
From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pond liners
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 13:07:32 cdt
Organization: Technology Resource Group
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <trg1.53.03C3F24D@ins.infonet.net>
References: <trg1.48.08AF7D4E@ins.infonet.net> <3dajqs$fga@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <carienix-221294104219@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
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In article <carienix-221294104219@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu> carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon) writes:
>From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
>Subject: Re: Pond liners
>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 10:42:18 +0800

>In article <3dajqs$fga@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
>wrote:

>> on Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:30:33 cdt Tim Prachar wrote in rec.ponds:
>> > To those looking for a "rubber" pond liner, I would suggest getting the 
>> > material used for rubber-roofing.  Actually it is neoprene.  I have found it 
>> 
>> any one have a feel for toxicity levels of neoprene? other than that
>> question, it sounds perfect
>> 
>I don't think there is a problem with the neoprene itself, but you need to
>rince it very well to remove the powder that they put on the keep it from
>sticking to itself in the roll.  This is toxic to fish (usually, depending
>on what they happened to have used).

I have had no fish deaths I could attribute to a coating on the neoprene.  
Before I put the liner in place I rinsed it off with a garden hose---nothing 
special.  Also, after I filled the pond with tap water, I let it set for two 
days before introducing plants and fish.  I don't know what the powder coating 
is compose of, but maybe any remaining toxic effects were either too diluted 
initially or dissippated after time.



From gilman@ocean.bwc.org Fri Dec 30 21:00:03 EST 1994
Article: 186 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!wang!news
From: gilman@ocean.bwc.org (Mark Gilman)
Subject: LilyPons -- catalog address
Organization: Baha'i World Centre
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 12:38:56 GMT
Message-ID: <3dmdh1$cgb@bwc.bwc.org>
Sender: news@wang.com
Lines: 8



I have seen several references to this catalog.  Does anyone have
the address?  (Perhaps a list of resources such as this would make
a useful addition to the FAQ which someone is reputedly working on
for this group.)  Thanks.

Mark


From rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:04 EST 1994
Article: 187 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!occ!ndlc.occ.uky.edu!rhodesj
From: rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Winterizing
Date: 26 Dec 1994 15:29:08 GMT
Organization: The NDLC's Internet Gateway
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We have a 25 by 18 pond with a good stock of fish.  We have been 
successful at carrying over almost all of our plants (into the basement 
or in fish aquariums) for the winter except the hyacinth (spelling??))

One year U put them in a childs little pool and put them in front of a 
sliding door for light.  NO GOOD.  

A couple of years in a row now I've tried to bring them indoors and keep 
them in an aquarium (air stone going and filter going).  NO GOOD.

Does anyone have any ideas???????????

Jerry
email rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu


From rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:05 EST 1994
Article: 188 of rec.ponds
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From: rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Date: 26 Dec 1994 16:02:45 GMT
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I have four ducks on my pond and they make very little noise and eat 
nothing.  I got them from "Allied Sporting Goods" and some 
people call them decoys.

Jerry

bob1@cos.com wrote:
: In <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) writes:

: >Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?

: No ducks, but about 18 koi of varying size and color.



From rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:06 EST 1994
Article: 189 of rec.ponds
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From: rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 26 Dec 1994 16:06:57 GMT
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Carie Nixon (carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: In article <trg1.50.08BC5AE0@ins.infonet.net>, trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim
: Prachar) wrote:

: > I'm curious as to how many other people are maintaining their ponds in the 
: > winter.  Mostly, I'm curious about small ponds (mine is 800gal) where you can 
: > have some control over nature's effects.  I'm located in central Iowa, so cold 
: > weather (ice) is the issue.
: > 
: > I've wintered my fish outside for the last couple years (this is the third), 
: > but have been too scared to let the water stay completely frozen over for more 
: > than a few days at time.  I have bubbler at the deep end (3-feet) and a 
: > bird-bath heater (250W) submerged just below the surface in an attempt to 
: > maintain an area of open water.  Using the bubbler alone ($10 total cost from 
: > WalMart, under a bucket for weather protection) only results in dome of ice 
: > with air underneath it, but no open water.  The combination of the heater and 
: > the bubbler works pretty well up until multiple days of single-digit 
: > temperatures.  I realize that the heater probably runs continously, but I'm 
: > not trying to heat the whole pond, only enough for a circle of open water.
: > 
: > I'm content with the current system, but want to know if others out there have
: > tried (successfully or not) to winter fish in similarly sized ponds without 
: > trying to maintain open water?  I am assuming that oxygen starvation will 
: > result because of the small size otherise.

: In Illinois, I keep my air pump running all winter. I use a Tetra Luft pump
: that can be put outside, has a dial for amount of air, and has plenty of
: pressure to run a commercial sized air stone.  Not bad for $20 mail order!
: Sometimes the top still freezes over, but the motion of the water will help
: keep the open area under the ice larger (like stream that never freeze
: completely, etc.).  It works well, even last year when it got to an
: estimated -30 F.  I did not loose any fish in that pond, but another that
: has no electic to it, froze solid.  I won't say any more about that other
: than it was not fun to clean out in the spring.  (It is where I had put all
: of my koi for the winter).

Maybe I'm just lucky but I do nothing but let the fish live like they 
would in the wild.  My pond is about 4 feet deep at the lowest spot and 
they all seem to go there and do just fine until spring.  Granted, out 
winters are not as severe in Kentucky as in Iowa but we do get single 
digit weather and total freeze (on top) but there is enough left at the 
deep end for the fish to do just fine.

Jerry Rhodes
rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu



From trg1@ins.infonet.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:06 EST 1994
Article: 190 of rec.ponds
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From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Winterizing pond plants
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 10:58:00 cdt
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In article <3dmng4$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu> rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes) writes:
>From: rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes)
>Subject: Winterizing
>Date: 26 Dec 1994 15:29:08 GMT

>We have a 25 by 18 pond with a good stock of fish.  We have been 
>successful at carrying over almost all of our plants (into the basement 
>or in fish aquariums) for the winter except the hyacinth (spelling??))

>One year U put them in a childs little pool and put them in front of a 
>sliding door for light.  NO GOOD.  

>A couple of years in a row now I've tried to bring them indoors and keep 
>them in an aquarium (air stone going and filter going).  NO GOOD.

>Does anyone have any ideas???????????

>Jerry
>email rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu

I've tried twice to winter the water hyacinth(sp?) indoor in a "kiddie" pool 
with no success.  I have tried both natural (sunlight) and artificial 
(gro-lights 1-foot above the water).  One person I spoke with suggested that 
the moving water typically found in a filtered indoor pool was detrimental to 
their health.  I have resigned myself to buying new plants each spring.


From kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:07 EST 1994
Article: 191 of rec.ponds
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From: Katherine Hess <kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Date: 24 Dec 1994 00:30:57 GMT
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In our front yard, we have a large (50 gals?) ceramic pot as a water
garden.  It holds half a dozen goldfish, some water irises, and some
anachris plants.  When we first set it up, my husband went down to the
local creek and brough back a couple of cups of mud and water to stock
the system with microbeasties.

We feed the fish when we feel like it, divide the irises every year or
so, and don't do much other maintenance at all.  I love it.  (USDA zone
9.  YMMV)

Katherine Hess
kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu
Davis Community Network


From jamesf@pnw.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:08 EST 1994
Article: 192 of rec.ponds
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From: jamesf@pnw.net (James Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Winterizing pond plants
Date: 26 Dec 1994 12:25:19 -0800
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I am in the state of Washington and I have had good luck wintering fish 
over in my 800 gal pond. I keep a cover over one end of the pond which 
will keep it from freezing except in the worst of conditions. The cover 
is just a wooden frame covered with insulation and plastic. During a 
cold winter, when the cover fails to keep an open area I 
will make one by pouring hot water on the ice under the cover. The cover 
will keep the area open for a week or more.


From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:09 EST 1994
Article: 193 of rec.ponds
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From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Books
Date: 26 Dec 1994 20:23:34 GMT
Organization: Roseville Networks Division
Lines: 14
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John Springer (springer@scruznet.com) wrote:

: Another valuable resource:
: Koi USA Magazine, P.O. Box 1, Midway City CA 92655.  714/637-3027

They also publish books:
Practical Koi Keeping Volume 1 (this is the one I have.  I think there
is at least a Volume 2 as well.)
This is a collection of articles on subjects from building the pond
and filter through breeding.  A lot of good information.  Since it
is a collection of articles, it is a bit sketchy on some topics so 
it shouldn't be the only book you consult.

Pat Thaler


From pendeea3@wfu.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:09 EST 1994
Article: 194 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!pendeea3
From: pendeea3@wfu.edu (eric addkison pendergrass)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How do you drain a pond?
Date: 26 Dec 1994 20:52:53 GMT
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Thanks for the info, it was very interesting.  Although, I would think it 
dangerous to swim to the bottom of a pond with a large drain pipe, and 
uncap it.  Don't most have some mechanism at the surface to remotely open 
the drain valve?  

Mine has a small metal platform, which is usually submerged slightly, and 
which I assume is used for this purpose (btw, I'm not the one who has to drain 
the thing, I was just a bit curious about how it's done). 

I think this newsgroup is great, and I'm happy to see it has such a large 
following.  Thanks to those who have posted all this valuable info.

May your aeration be good, and your scum be short-lived.

-Eric


From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:10 EST 1994
Article: 195 of rec.ponds
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From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Help with toad attracting pond
Date: 26 Dec 1994 20:42:27 GMT
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Donn Cave (donn@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: The number of eggs from one hot toad mating session probably
: exceeds your barrel's capacity to support tadpoles.  The small
: tadpoles may be in danger for a while from small fish, but those
: that survive the first couple of weeks should get bigger.  If you see
: large water-beetles or their larvae, try to get them out of there, they're
: murder on tadpoles.

....
: Fish are at high risk.  Don't bother with goldfish, they're not big predators.

I think they may be bigger predators than you think.  We use to have
loads of tadpoles in our pond.  Then we introduced some goldfish and
later some koi.  Our pond is pretty lightly populated with fish
(about 12 in 1500 gallons), but we haven't seen a tadpole in it
since we introduced the fish.  There were a lot of frogs around the
pond this spring, so there were probably plenty of frog eggs layed.

Fancy goldfish may not be big predators.  Ours are all regular goldfish.
They and our koi are both hearty omnivores.  

Pat Thaler


From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:11 EST 1994
Article: 196 of rec.ponds
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From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pond safety issues
Date: 26 Dec 1994 21:21:32 GMT
Organization: Roseville Networks Division
Lines: 38
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Sherry Bailey (slbailey@bu.edu) wrote:
: In most communities ponds are consiered an "attractive nuisance" in the eyes
: of the law, and as such, there are maximum depths after which fencing is 
: required.  In my town it's 24 inches, so my pond is that deep.  We put a
: chain-link fence up across the back of the yard only (into which ivy is
: supposed to be thickly growing!) because the first week we had the pond in, 
: the backyard neighbor's toddler came over with a net and bucket to catch
: the fish, and even at 24 inches, he was small enough to not be able to get
: out if he got in.

Our pond is also less than 2 feet deep and I agree with Sherry here.  A
toddler's interest could be drawn by the fish.  If the toddler stumbles
in, he/she may not be able to get out and could drown.  Our pond is
in a courtyard by our front door and is enclosed by a wood fence.
Parts of the fence are solid and parts are vertical wood bars with
spaces between.  To my eye, the fence fits well with the pond and
doesn't detract from it.

This fence protects against a young child falling in.  I think that
it may also discourage raccoons because the space feels so enclosed
(in addition to the fence, about half the enclosed area is covered by an
extension of our roof).  At least, we see raccoons in our backyard
regularly, but not in the front courtyard.  There is a gap at the 
bottom of the fence that I expect a racoon could get through with a 
lttle digging and one could probably climb it since they get into our
backyard.

We had a fish taken from the pond on the first Halloween after we
introduced fish.  Now we keep the front gate locked on Halloween
and open it for the trick or treaters so they are supervised when
they are around the pond.  So, a fence also helps protect your pond
>from  kids as well as protect kids from your pond.

If the property is in a rural area, the considerations may be different,
(any big kid who wants to fall into water has the whole American River a
half a mile from our house) but I think a suburban pond should have a fence. 

Pat Thaler


From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:12 EST 1994
Article: 197 of rec.ponds
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From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: uk person needs advice
Date: 26 Dec 1994 21:53:28 GMT
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Mike Ward (mike.ward@bt-sys.bt.co.uk) wrote:

: I live in England and I have a moderate sized pond (for the UK) of 9 feet
: 6 feet x 2.5 feet deep. My problem is that when it rains - which
: in England happens a lot! the pond quickly fills up. Now at the moment
: I get out there with a bucket and empty the exess down the drain.
: Does anyone have a cleaverer solution to this as I'm starting to get too
: fit for my own good!


If your pond is above your drainage, this can be pretty easy.  Our
pond has a pipe which enters the filter box, then has a right angle joint
and ends at the maximum water level.  The pipe goes from the filter
underground and comes out near our street drain.  (The ground around
the pond is several feet above the street.  If your pond was only
slightly higher than the end of the pipe, you might want to put
in a valve that prevents backflushing of water into the pond in case
of flooding.) 

This is also very convenient for water changes.  When we need to do
a water change, we run water into the pond (using a hose with a
metering valve on it).  The excess runs out the overflow pipe.

If your pond isn't above the surrounding area, you might be able
to arrange a float valve that opens when the water level gets too
high to let your pump remove water from the pond.  I don't entirely
trust a float valve to never get stuck open, so you should think
about some sort of back up to keep your pond from being pumped
dry if the float valve doesn't close when it should.

Pat Thaler



From BVMG59A@prodigy.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:13 EST 1994
Article: 198 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: BVMG59A@prodigy.com (Don Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Urban micro wetlands
Date: 27 Dec 1994 13:40:47 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
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>Being a novice at ponding, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with
>experience building and maintaining a tiny natural wetland (1) in the
>midwest climate, (2) with natural predators that keep the mosquitoes
>under control, (3) with good water quality.  If the pond is a very
>small one, is it necessary to provide supplementary filtration or
>oxygenation (e.g., powered by a pump) to maintain good water?
I've had a small (900 gal.) pond in my backyard for several years now.  
I'm located in central lower Michigan so my weather may be similar to 
yours.  I have always stocked the pond with gold fish, snails and frogs.  
The fish and snails were deliberate, the frogs just arrive.  I know from 
observation that the smaller gold fish eat all mosquitoe larvea.  Water 
quality is a little more complex and will require experimentation.  Non-
chemical solutions will require not overstocking fish, a number of snails,
 and water plants that cover at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the water surface.  
(No sun - no algea)  I have had great success with a half-barrel water 
garden on my deck.  Just a wooden whiskey barrel that I bought at a local 
garden store.  I believe it was meant as a planter.  I filled it with 
water and let the wood swell to make it water tight. It was stocked with 
12 small fantail gold fish and some pond snails.  I planted one small 
hardy water lilly in a pot and included floating water lettuce.  No 
filtration or anything.  The result was happy fish, blooming water 
lillies, no mosquitoes, and water so clear you could drink it.  Hope that 
this helps.



From BVMG59A@prodigy.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:13 EST 1994
Article: 199 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: BVMG59A@prodigy.com (Don Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Date: 27 Dec 1994 13:57:03 GMT
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Get a wine or whiskey barrel and cut it in half. Use a liner, or go to a 

>garden supply place and you might luck out and find a black plastic tub 
>that fits perfectly inside the barrel half. The rest you already know
This is a great suggestion.  Just a couple of comments - first, the 
location of the barrel must be in full sun much of the day in order to 
grow most pond plants. Second, if you're careful selecting the barrel a 
liner isn't needed.  After all, it held whiskey for a long time without 
leaking!  Make certain they didn't disturb the wooden staves too much 
when they cut the barrel in half, and be prepared for it to leak when 
it's first filled until the wood swells.  Good luck!



From BVMG59A@prodigy.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:14 EST 1994
Article: 200 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: BVMG59A@prodigy.com (Don Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 27 Dec 1994 14:15:36 GMT
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Distribution: world
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I have two creeks running thru my 10 acres.  I would like to put about a 
1/2 acre pond and am concerned with turtles and snakes.  Any experience 
controlling these pests?
Hate to rain on your parade - snakes and turtles are part of the natural 
environment.  Trying to eradicate them from 10 acres is probably not a 
task you would want to undertake.  And why?  Most people who are into 
ponds are striving for as natural a look as possible.  All in all it 
might be easier to just adjust your attitude.  If a pond is going to 
place you at war with your natural neighbors, maybe it's not worth the 
effort.



From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:15 EST 1994
Article: 201 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!illuminati.io.com!nobody
From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 26 Dec 1994 21:23:51 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 80
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

In article <3dke5u$k7o@mark.ucdavis.edu>,
John Crayon <ez042775@dale.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>Steve Jackson (sj@pentagon.io.com) wrote:
>
>:  your best control method is probably just to
>: float a nice board in the middle of the pond and pop them with a .22 when
>: they crawl up to rest. But I don't want to hear about it . . . .
>
>
>This is incredibly irresponsible advice!  And, depending upon where Butch 
>lives, you have just advised him to violate Federal laws.  Can you say 
>"Endangered Species Act"?

Read the post, JAck. I did not advise him to kill turtles. I told him
I objected to the idea. Then I told him one way he COULD kill turtles
if he insisted on doing so. I didn't insult his intelligence by rehearsing
the obvious safety precautions, or the obvious circumstances in which 
using a firearm on the lot would be a terrible idea . . . because to a
responsible gun owner they ARE obvious, and if he's not responsible, my
posting won't make him so.  Neither will yours.

No doubt there are dozens of ways a person can control (what he conceives
to be) pests, on his own property, and be found in violation of Federal
law. Some of these regulations would probably offend most of the readers
of this group. Others would seem more reasonable. Had I suggested the use of
high explosives, say, or binary nerve agents, you might have cause to 
criticize.

Here's a not-very-hypothetical question for you fish lovers: what do you
do if a large heron (beautiful, rare, highly protected) moves into
your neighborhood and decides that your pond represents Fast Food?  
Set aside the damned Federal regulations for a moment; that's not the point.
I don't want to kill a heron, because it's a heron! So how do you
convince him to leave? (The question has been in my mind since I read
a British book on ponds, many decades old, that casually advised the
pondkeeper to have a shotgun handy to deal with herons. ???!!! Times change.)

>I had hoped that, if anywhere, this would be a place where people had some
>real appreciation of the unique diversity of life that is adapted to
>wetlands/ponds.

I think it is. But peoples' tastes in water gardens are equally diverse.
(I'm still hoping that the original writer will come back and tell us
why he wants to get rid of turtles. But I know a man who systematically
removes TOADS from his garden and water garden. He knows they're good
bug-eaters, but he can't stand the noise. His business. And no, he
doesn't kill them. Toads are easy to catch.)

>Sure, nobody wants snapping turtles, poisonous snakes, or
>raccoons trashing their artificial mini-ecosystem.  I'd be as quick as the
>next person to remove a pest from my own pond.

Jack, different people have different definitions of "pest." It sounds
like your list agrees with mine. But I don't want to push my list on
everybody who reads this group. Some people would froth at you and I because
we'd exclude (read: kill) poisonous snakes. OTOH, I do *not* kill rattlers
in the wild, and some of my friends think I am dangerously insane for this
reason alone.

>But some of the readers of
>this newsgroup are fortunate to have ponds large enough to be considered
>legitimate widlife habitat.
(snip)
>In such
>a case, the ethical implications of animal control are clearly different,

This is a legitimate point, but where do you draw the line? The Feds
will no doubt fine you if you step on an endangered spider in your
own bathtub. (Maybe I exaggerate. Maybe not.) Is there a strict point at which
someone's pond becomes "legitimate wildlife habitat" and subject to their
neighbors' "legitimate" interference? The original poster described a half-
acre pond on a ten-acre lot - is that big enough that he no longer has the
right to arrange its "artificial mini-ecosystem" as he wishes?

-SJ, who has loved turtles since he was little but will defend your
right to get them out of your own pond . . .

-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From mattd486@aol.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:16 EST 1994
Article: 202 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: mattd486@aol.com (MattD486)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Spawning Koi
Date: 26 Dec 1994 23:38:51 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3do5or$rtt@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3dcpaf$egl@mojo.eng.umd.edu>
Reply-To: mattd486@aol.com (MattD486)

Hi,
    Temperature is not nearly as important as is the spawning media.  Any
five degree (max) drop in water temp will cause the fish, both koi and
goldfish, to spawn.  The trick, howevr, is to have the proper media.  The
best and cheapest is water hyacinth's roots.   You can also use netting or
a bath scruuber made of plastic filament.  If or when you kind the fry
separate them.

Best of luck,
Matt

PS I have koi as a hobby.  Please ask if you have any questions.  Direct
them to degraw69@matrix.newpaltz.edu


From dpk@acpub.duke.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:16 EST 1994
Article: 203 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!usenet
From: dpk@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Kanipe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How do you drain a pond?
Date: 27 Dec 1994 04:39:01 GMT
Organization: Duke University
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <3do5p5$fmp@news.duke.edu>
References: <3dhp1t$j5c@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <3dj81n$it2@news.duke.edu> <3dnaf5$8qi@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ddcd82196.mc.duke.edu
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1

In article <3dnaf5$8qi@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu>, pendeea3@wfu.edu (eric addkison pendergrass) says:
>
>Thanks for the info, it was very interesting.  Although, I would think it 
>dangerous to swim to the bottom of a pond with a large drain pipe, and 
>uncap it.  Don't most have some mechanism at the surface to remotely open 
>the drain valve?  

In an ideal univers, this is how it would be done.  Unfortunately, this is
far from an ideal universe.  :-)  Actually, most of the farm ponds in N.C. 
are pretty shallow, less than 10 feet in depth.  The drain pipes
are rarely over a foot in diameter.  Still, it is a risky proposition and
I have heard stories about people drowning in the process of uncapping.  
As to how much credence to lend to these stories, well, that's another 
matter entirely.  

>Mine has a small metal platform, which is usually submerged slightly, and 
>which I assume is used for this purpose (btw, I'm not the one who has to drain 
>the thing, I was just a bit curious about how it's done). 

If the pond has a spillway, this is probably the drain mechanism.  If it 
doesn't, then it is probably an overflow pipe with a device for opening 
the drain valve built into the same assembly.  If you look at the device 
you can probably tell.  

>I think this newsgroup is great, and I'm happy to see it has such a large 
>following.  Thanks to those who have posted all this valuable info.

Me too!

Dean Kanipe
dpk@acpub.duke.edu


From dave@cardinal.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:17 EST 1994
Article: 204 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: dave@cardinal.com
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Brick
Date: 27 Dec 1994 12:14:25 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Lines: 3
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <199412271812.MAA03056@cs.utexas.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

How well does brick hold water?  Could I use brick sides to line a pond,
rather than cement or the rubber materials?  I would expect less of a
cracking problem, but wonder how good a seal I could manage to get.


From stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil Fri Dec 30 21:00:18 EST 1994
Article: 205 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!cs.umd.edu!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Winterizing
Date: 27 Dec 1994 13:08:48 -0500
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3dpl7gINN97b@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
References: <3dmng4$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: oasys.dt.navy.mil

In rec.ponds, rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes) writes:
(in part)

>We have a 25 by 18 pond with a good stock of fish.  We have been
>successful at carrying over almost all of our plants (into the basement
>or in fish aquariums) for the winter except the hyacinth (spelling??))

>Does anyone have any ideas???????????

I can't prove this will work, put my hyacinth are still looking great
after about 2 months in the basement in an old lotus pot under a fluorescent
lamp. I'm not aerating or anything, but I am keeping the pot filled
with pond water vice fresh. I'm hoping that the er ah "nourishment"
in the pond water will keep them happy until spring.

Here's hoping anyway. - Bill
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |                        |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 859            |  Get well soon Ernie   |
(410) 293-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |    and Page            |
_________________________________________________|________________________|


From jwasson@eznet.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:19 EST 1994
Article: 206 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!roch0.eznet.net!dialin-2.eznet.net!user
From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Books about Ponds
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 00:40:41 -0400
Organization: One World, One People, One Future
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <jwasson-2712940040410001@dialin-2.eznet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-2.eznet.net

I'm interested in building a fish pond this summer on some property, and
was wondering if anybody could recomend some books about ponds. I would be
more than happy to compile a list of responses and re-post them has a book
FAQ. BTW, here's a book that I'm going to pick up at the library, I saw it
advertised in 'Real Goods': 1-800-762-7325:

'Earth Ponds' by Tim Matson
Pond making is elevated to a bucolic art form in this inspirational guide
to the building, maintenance, and restoration of country ponds. Full of
practical advise, author Tima Matson's love of ponds ensures enjoyable
reading and everything you need to know to plan, dig, and sculpt your
earth pond. Includes plenty of cost-saving tips, too. Second edition,
revised and expanded in 1991, 150 pages, paperback. Video also available.
(blurb is from the catalog)

Thanks,
Jason Wasson
-- 
jwasson@eznet.net

Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live


From jwasson@eznet.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:20 EST 1994
Article: 207 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!roch0.eznet.net!dialin-2.eznet.net!user
From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 00:52:49 -0400
Organization: One World, One People, One Future
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-2.eznet.net

I'm interested in building a pond that I can eventually stock with fish
and use as a small scale aqua-farm (an aqua-garden?). I was wondering if
anyone else is currently doing this or has any input on this. I have a
couple of questions so far :)

1. What would be the best fish to use. I figured I would want a mix in
size and variety. Hopefully this would help to prevent the spread of
disease.

2. Could I count on the fish to fend for them selves, or would all the big
fish eat the little fish? Might it be better to have one stock and feed
them?

3. What about the winter? I live in Western NY where it can get pretty
cold in the winter :) I thought if I dug the pond deep enough it might not
freeze, I was also thinking about using solar energy to keep the pond warm
in the winter time.

4. What would be the best way to catch the fish once I'm ready to eat
them? Net, fish trap, or good o'le fashion pole :)

Thanks,
Jason Wasson
-- 
jwasson@eznet.net

Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live


From epur01@email.mot.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:20 EST 1994
Article: 208 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!fl08ara013.comm.mot.com!user
From: epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns)
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 00:56:19 -0500
Message-ID: <epur01-2712940056190001@fl08ara013.comm.mot.com>
References: <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com> <3d7gs7$924@goodnews.globalcom.net> <3dmpf5$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>
Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.2.27.45
Lines: 17

In article <3dmpf5$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>, rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry
Rhodes) wrote:

> I have four ducks on my pond and they make very little noise and eat 
> nothing.  I got them from "Allied Sporting Goods" and some 
> people call them decoys.

Yes, this species of duck is the best kind for domesticated ponds such as
mine, principally because they do not poop....

-- 
Don Burns                        \ Motorola E-Mail: epur01
Motorola Inc.                     \    Internet:epur01@email.mot.com
North American Radio Systems Divn  \        Voice: 305-475-5518
Plantation, FL  U.S.A.              \          Fax: 305-475-6095
            
X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/


From nfe@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:21 EST 1994
Article: 209 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!nfe
From: nfe@netcom.com (Nathan Estey)
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Message-ID: <nfeD1GI9u.GKr@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3d9g4c$su6@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu> <3dbunm$a11@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu> <3dbvdj$ohs@nova.voicenet.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 06:34:42 GMT
Lines: 24


Hi!,
  it's good to see this newsgroup.

  I wanted to just throw in a comment about liners based on my
experience making ponds: use plastic sheeting. OK, there is more to it -
what you want to do is form something called a "gley"(sp?), this is the
anorobic material that lines real ponds. So dig your hole, and try to
have shallow areas, and deep areas (at least 3-4') in order to support
different environmental "niche's", then line it with biological material
(leaves, compost, grass clippings, and hopefully some gley you borrowed
>from  a local pond - clay soil will also help). now wet it down and
cover it with a plastic sheet(s), fill with water, and start seeding.

  I also add dirt, leaves, etc to the bottom of the pond to help keep
the plastic down. Expect it to leak for a while, it helps to saturate
the area arround a new pond with water. In time the clippings you
laid down will decompose into a gooie, slimey, mass that will keep
the water in and it NEVER has to be patched or replaced!

Hope that helps,
  Nate




From lralph@dataflux.bc.ca Fri Dec 30 21:00:22 EST 1994
Article: 210 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.DataFlux.BC.CA!lralph.dataflux.bc.ca!lralph
From: lralph@dataflux.bc.ca (len ralph)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 21:32:40 UNDEFINED
Organization: Dataflux Systems Ltd.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <lralph.79.0220F5B6@dataflux.bc.ca>
References: <3da5gl$9tr@dsk92.itg.ti.com> <3diom6$3ue@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lralph.dataflux.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]



>Like the rest who've posted, I think turtles are extremely cool.  

love em myself. We had a relatively large red slider( about 8") inhabit our 
pond for a couple of weeks along with a smaller one.  When we had the large 
one, he would eat from your hands and had no fear of people, in fact you had 
the definite impression that he was glaring at you when you were near the 
pond. He generally had quite a lot of personality, much more than you would 
expect from a turtle! The smaller turtle who still lives with us (at least he 
did before winter set in) was and is quite shy...any movement in the yard and 
you hear a little splash and see a little black form swimming rapidly to the 
bottom. During the 2 or 3 weeks the large turtle visited us, the two would sit 
together sunning themselves. The small turtle's shyness disappeared, as if he 
felt he was with a big buddy. I know this sounds ridiculous for turtles but 
it's true.Interesting as all this was, we were glad to see the big fellow go.  
He was very destructive, swimming and thrashing about in our pond plants. He 
even bit off my wifes first water lilly bud just as it was about to flower.As 
soon as he left, the little fellow became shy again.
len ralph
lralph@dataflux.bc.ca


From lralph@dataflux.bc.ca Fri Dec 30 21:00:23 EST 1994
Article: 211 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.DataFlux.BC.CA!lralph.dataflux.bc.ca!lralph
From: lralph@dataflux.bc.ca (len ralph)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How to keep pond water clear ?
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 21:42:47 UNDEFINED
Organization: Dataflux Systems Ltd.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <lralph.80.022A365A@dataflux.bc.ca>
References: <3dhst0$gtg@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lralph.dataflux.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]

     *** Save the planet, save the world ! ***
save the soul and the planet will take care of itself.

now onto the mucky pond...
You need lots of plants of the oxygenating variety.  These plants suck up the 
soluble nitrates and phosphates from fish doo doo.  The idea is to keep the 
dissolved salts low so that the algae wont have enough food to grow. If you 
can adapt and get a little water fall going, it will help keep oxygen levels 
high as well. This aids in the breakdown of dissolved organics and if the 
waterfall is in a sunny location, the socalled ozone layer depletion can help 
you out since God's giant UV lamp in the sky is free! Hmm...maybe I'm being a 
bit vague...what i mean is, there is lots of uv in sunlight, and as the water 
is sprayed through, the sunlight, the UV will kill of some of the microscopic 
algae and bacteria.
len ralph
lralph@dataflux.bc.ca



From lralph@dataflux.bc.ca Fri Dec 30 21:00:24 EST 1994
Article: 212 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.DataFlux.BC.CA!lralph.dataflux.bc.ca!lralph
From: lralph@dataflux.bc.ca (len ralph)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,alt.1d
Subject: Re: Pond life
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 21:48:50 UNDEFINED
Organization: Dataflux Systems Ltd.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <lralph.81.022FC2E5@dataflux.bc.ca>
References: <3dl2sv$kq0@nic-nac.CSU.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lralph.dataflux.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.ponds:212 alt.1d:18696

 
>> :  If this group is about ponds with fish and other good stuff
>> : then here goes:

>> :  My family has been keeping a pond for about a year now.  As 
>> : far as ponds go that is probably not too long.  But we have done
>> : well so far after a few problems.  Some of our fish became victims
>> : of airborne predators.


>> :  They got the biggest fish of course.  But 
>> : now that is under control for now.  

We have otters here that help us from getting too attached to our fish. 
Occasionally we see one in the pond doing the backstroke with a satisfied grin 
on his face.
I built some rocky structures on the bottom of our pond that give the fish 
some little hidy holes. It also gives some little crannies that both hide and 
stabilize tippy plant pots.
Although we have eagles, blue herons, cormorants and kingfishers in the area, 
we havent any trouble from them yet.
len ralph
lralph@dataflux.bc.ca


From perry@astro.ocis.temple.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:24 EST 1994
Article: 213 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!astro.ocis.temple.edu!perry
From: perry@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Perry M. Hidalgo)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: I have just purchased a home with a beaver dam and pond
Date: 27 Dec 1994 20:27:53 GMT
Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

 
 
 I have just bought a home with a stream and Beavers have created a pond for me.   How can I keep my pond?  What should I offer the beaver?  

--
"--"
        /\                    /\
     ____\/____============____\/___    ___===============================
    /__|  Perry M. Hidalgo    [_]  |    |  |[]|  [_]    [_]    [_]    [_]
  /       Always Training          |    |  |  | On the road again.I just C..
  \________________________________|_ii_|__|__|___________________________
    ()==()    === ++++ ===   ()==()       ()==()     +++   +++   ++++++++
=========================================================================

	Perry@Astro.ocis.Temple.Edu	Temple University 
	Perry@Bubba.ocis.Temple.Edu	Computer Services HelpDesk GA
	Hidalgo@VM.Temple.Edu		Phiadelphia, Penna 19122
					(215) 204-8527


		******************************************
		No matter where you go...there you are!!!!
		******************************************
			**************************
				*********
				   ***


From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:25 EST 1994
Article: 214 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Message-ID: <kludgeD1HFBp.B2D@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
References: <221294111626@128.253.208.151> <D19zr2.uG@bony1.bony.com> <3dfkii$5kr@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:28:37 GMT
Lines: 10
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.drugs:106006 rec.ponds:214 soc.culture.singapore:34268 soc.culture.china:133272 soc.culture.netherlands:29679

In article <3dfkii$5kr@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> pjordan@cab013.cs.ualberta.ca (Peter Jordan) writes:
>
>	Or are we just assuming that with so much opium, there must
>	have been so many addicts ?

PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BONGS!


-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:26 EST 1994
Article: 215 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: pissing.
Message-ID: <kludgeD1HFD4.B4L@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
References: <3d86eg$pli@tribune.usask.ca> <3d9s59$f3q@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:29:28 GMT
Lines: 8

In article pli@tribune.usask.ca,  colacino@herald.usask.ca (S Colacino) writes:
>I like to piss in ponds.
>

PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.WANDS.

-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:27 EST 1994
Article: 216 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Winterizing pond plants
Message-ID: <kludgeD1HFE6.B7n@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
References: <3dmng4$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu> <trg1.57.0E4C785C@ins.infonet.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:30:06 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <trg1.57.0E4C785C@ins.infonet.net> trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar) writes:
>
>I've tried twice to winter the water hyacinth(sp?) indoor in a "kiddie" pool 
>with no success.  I have tried both natural (sunlight) and artificial 
>(gro-lights 1-foot above the water).  One person I spoke with suggested that 
>the moving water typically found in a filtered indoor pool was detrimental to 
>their health.  I have resigned myself to buying new plants each spring.

PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.FRONDS!

-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:27 EST 1994
Article: 217 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Brick
Message-ID: <kludgeD1HFF6.BC0@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
References: <199412271812.MAA03056@cs.utexas.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:30:41 GMT
Lines: 9

In article <199412271812.MAA03056@cs.utexas.edu> dave@cardinal.com writes:
>How well does brick hold water?  Could I use brick sides to line a pond,
>rather than cement or the rubber materials?  I would expect less of a
>cracking problem, but wonder how good a seal I could manage to get.

PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BONDS.

-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:28 EST 1994
Article: 218 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Winterizing
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 12:47:04 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 20
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In article <3dmng4$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>, rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry
Rhodes) wrote:

> We have a 25 by 18 pond with a good stock of fish.  We have been 
> successful at carrying over almost all of our plants (into the basement 
> or in fish aquariums) for the winter except the hyacinth (spelling??))
> 
> One year U put them in a childs little pool and put them in front of a 
> sliding door for light.  NO GOOD.  
> 
> A couple of years in a row now I've tried to bring them indoors and keep 
> them in an aquarium (air stone going and filter going).  NO GOOD.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas???????????
> 
I don't try to overwinter mine, but a friend in town has a greenhouse, and
he moves some in for the winter.  Hyacinth need to have their roots in soil
for the winter, so he puts about 8 to 10 inches of soil in the bottom of a
large tub, and puts water a few inches deep over the soil.  The hyacinth
winter very well that way. 


From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:29 EST 1994
Article: 219 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: New Garden Pond Suggestions Needed
Message-ID: <kludgeD1HFLM.BKE@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:34:34 GMT
Lines: 9

In article <3dbunm$a11@trucomm.com> jcarr@walkier.truecomm.com writes:
>smashes up the birdfeeder no matter what I do.  I see these verdigris
>platters that hang from the trees; are these metal things any better
>at keeping squirrels away?

PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BRONZE.

-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From lindaz@hsi.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:30 EST 1994
Article: 220 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!mercury.hsi.com!lindaz
From: lindaz@hsi.com (Linda Zukauskas)
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
Message-ID: <D1H7AL.HpB@hsi.com>
Sender: news@hsi.com (USENET news)
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References: <1994Dec20.165618@ceres> <3d7n75$gc4@pinyon.enet.net> <1994Dec21.102446@ceres>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 15:35:09 GMT
Lines: 13

My husband and I are currently building a house that overlooks a pond.
I've looked at some of the articles here and I'm glad to see this group
exists!

The articles are pretty interesting.  I didn't know you could build
your own pond; ours exists because of some very hard-working beavers.  

Looking forward to more articles!   

-- 
  "Oh, Irony!  We don't get that here.  No, the last time we had irony was '82,
  when I was the sole practitioner of it and I got tired of being stared at."
                                               -Steve Martin, ROXANNE


From kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:30 EST 1994
Article: 221 of rec.ponds
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From: Katherine Hess <kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Apartment dweller seeks suggestions!
Date: 27 Dec 1994 23:48:31 GMT
Organization: LensCrushers
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
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References: <3dp6ff$349o@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
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X-XXDate: Tue, 27 Dec 94 16:57:52 GMT

 Don Clark, BVMG59A@prodigy.com writes:

>the location of the barrel must be in full sun much of the day in order
to 
>grow most pond plants.

In light shade (but mid-California, so the sun is still pretty bright in
summer) we've had water irises grow very well.  Although they've bloomed
one year out of three, the leaves look good year 'round.  Anachris grows
great, and even blooms sometimes.  Water hyacinths got brown on their
leaves and died, but we only tried them once.  If you only want foliage,
you can expand your list of plants to almost anything - but they won't
bloom.

Oh, and green algae does just fine.  Brown needs full sun.

Katherine Hess
kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu
Davis Community Network


From fueston@snowcrest.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:31 EST 1994
Article: 222 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!agate!iat.holonet.net!mtshasta!news
From: fueston@snowcrest.net (Kathy Fueston)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Lots of pond questions!
Date: 24 Dec 1994 23:05:56 GMT
Organization: Your Organization
Lines: 37
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sl0.yreka.snowcrest.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.3

Hi everyone!

I am very glad this group has gotten started as I have for many years
wanted to get into pond gardening, but not knowing anyone with a lot
of experience and having lots of questions I have been hesitant to
get started.  I bet I have read all the books in the library, but none
of them seem to answer all the questions I can think of.


Living in a high desert area, with long cold, winters and short, hot
summers, I  have wondered about how much water it would take to keep my
pond at an even level.  I have a good water supply, but my well is 
over 200 feet deep and with the drought in the west, we really don't know
how much water is over our pump.  Our summers can be very hot and dry. 
Would I being using lots and lots of water to keep the level up?  I am
thinking about a pond maybe, eight feet by ten feet, not too large.

Another question I have often wondered about is about mosquitos.  They
can be a real problem here in our area as we have some irrigation about.
I have been told that mosquito eating fish will take care of the problem.
I have planned to stock the pond with common goldfish.  Do you think
this would take care of the mosquito problem?

We used to have a good abundance of naturally occuring tree frogs and 
toads in our area, but the drought of the last few years has really cut
down their numbers.  I would like to encourage them to come back and I
know that they would really help with the mosquito problems... should I
try to bring some in when the pond is built, or see if nature will
naturally take care of the prolem?

Well, I have lots more questions, but I will not bore you with all of this
at once.

Thanks to everyone in advance.

K. Fueston
fueston@snowcrest.net


From jfeinstein@umassd.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:32 EST 1994
Article: 223 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!umassd.edu!mdcs.umassd.edu!JFEINSTEIN
From: jfeinstein@umassd.edu (Jonathan E. Feinstein)
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Message-ID: <D1I2G0.J1u@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: jfeinstein@umassd.edu
Organization: UMass Dartmouth, N. Dartmouth, MA.
References: <3d7nob$p1@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>,<3d80m5$puo@nova.voicenet.com> <D16xuM.8Dz@umassd.edu>,<3dbv4e$ohs@nova.voicenet.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 02:48:00 GMT
Lines: 45

In article <3dbv4e$ohs@nova.voicenet.com>, SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1) writes:
>Jonathan E. Feinstein (jfeinstein@umassd.edu) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>:     However, I do keep the filter going all winter (the fish have to fend for 
>: themselves foodwise though). The warm weather configuration has the pump 
>: sending the water over a series of rocks to simulate a natural spring, but in
>: the winter I move the pump from the bottom to a shelf only 15 inches deep
>: and attach a fountain tube (open-ended, no fountain head)that reaches just 
>: an inch below the surface. This keeps a hole open in the ice throughout
>: most of the SE New England winter. During particularly cold weather a dome of
>: ice will form over the bubbling water, looking it look much like an old-
>: fashioned coffee percolator, but a sharp blow with a crow bar will shatter 
>: this dome and some winters even that is not necessary.
>
>Hmmm....doesn't your filter need cleaning during the winter. I gave up on 
>climbing into the pond when the water is belo 40 degrees -- even with 
>waders on it's torture. I used to come out with my forearms blue up to 
>the elbows. A friend once commented that it looked as if I'd lost 
>something of value in one of those chemical toilets on an airplane and 
>reached in to retrieve it.

    Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. We had a fair-dinkum Noreaster
here in New England last Friday and the VAX I access Usenet through took a
hit and was down until today.

    I see others have also mentioned using the pump on all winter (the
bubbler method) already. I've found that the muck that forms in the pond 
doesn't proliferate during the winter anywhere near as quickly as it does
during the warmer seasons. Consequently, I don't usually need to clean out 
the filter more than once or twice all winter, and even then I could probably 
let it go until spring if I got lazy. It was a warm autumn this year so I
winterized late, so I'll just pick a relatively warm day in January or 
February (mid-winter thaw doubles as the time I maintain the pond and when I
start tapping the maples for sap). It helps, of course that I don't have to
actually jump into the pond in order to get the pump out, but then I designed
it with that (among other considerations) in mind.

    Jon.
			---------------------
   			JFeinstein@umassd.edu
        		---------------------

		Immortality is something you need to grow into.


From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:33 EST 1994
Article: 224 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!illuminati.io.com!nobody
From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: I have just purchased a home with a beaver dam and pond
Date: 27 Dec 1994 21:38:39 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <3dqmjv$cnh@pentagon.io.com>
References: <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

In article <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>,
Perry M. Hidalgo <perry@astro.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
> 
> I have just bought a home with a stream and Beavers have created
> a pond for me.
> How can I keep my pond?  What should I offer the beaver?  

(spammy 25-line signature deleted with prejudice)

You're lucky! I suspect that if you just leave the beavers alone,
and make sure that others do likewise, they'll stay for a while
Maybe generations. As long as you keep the beavers, they'll
make sure you have a pond.

You should do a bit of research on beavers, if you're not
familiar with them. Two possible drawbacks to having them . . . 

(1) They will cut down and eat/use the trees THEY want, and there's no
way I know of that you can influence their choices. Do beaver-proof
tree guards exist?

(2) They're second only to mankind in the way they remodel
Nature to suit themselves. Take a good look at their dam site and
make sure that it has no chance of flooding areas you don't want
flooded. Like your new home, for instance.

I suggest that if the beavers are still at work, you get a videocam
and a zoom lens, and take the opportunity to do some nature photography.

Hmm. I have the impression that beavers would eat water lily roots, so
you may be limited in what you plant in your new pond. Anyone know
for sure? OTOH, if you can help cattail (or whatever the equivalent is
for your area) get established more quickly than it naturally would, 
you'll beautify the area and provide wildlife food . . . and the
Typha species, once established, will keep way ahead of root-nibblers.

Have fun. I envy you!
-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:34 EST 1994
Article: 225 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!illuminati.io.com!nobody
From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: 27 Dec 1994 21:44:05 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <3dqmu5$d5j@pentagon.io.com>
References: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

In article <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net>,
Jason Wasson <jwasson@eznet.net> wrote:
>I'm interested in building a pond that I can eventually stock with fish
>and use as a small scale aqua-farm (an aqua-garden?).

If aquaculture is feasible in your climate, your state Department of
Agriculture will probably be happy to BURY you in pamphlets, and they
might even be a source of cheap fingerlings to stock your pond. If it's
not feasible, they'll tell you that, too.

Here in Taixuss, the easiest fish "crop" is catfish. Up there, I don't know.

A lot depends on whether you are really talking about a crop you can
harvest and sell, or whether you just want to catch yourself a fish dinner
every week or so!

Remember that a lot of aquatic PLANTS are edible too; your pond can
provide the salad course as well as the meat dish.

Whatever you do, make sure that your pond water is clean, free of both
chemical contamination and human waste runoff, before you think of eating
>from  it. Again, your state Department of Agriculture can bury you in
information.



-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From hendy@cisco.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:35 EST 1994
Article: 226 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!ames!cronkite.cisco.com!hstpierr-mac.cisco.com!user
From: hendy@cisco.com (Hendy)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: pond safety issues
Date: 28 Dec 1994 00:39:42 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Inc.
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <hendy-2712941646230001@hstpierr-mac.cisco.com>
References: <3dclm6$o98@news.bu.edu> <3dnc4s$pn0@hpchase.rose.hp.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hstpierr-mac.cisco.com

My sweetie nearly lost his 2-year old nephew to the pond in his parents'
backyard a few years ago.  And it's only 20 inches deep.

This wasn't a kid that wandered into the yard; Sean was SUPPOSED to be
back there.  Grandma only went into the house for a second...

There's now an open-work fence around all but one side of the pond... and
that side has a low-growing juniper.  Doesn't block the view of the pond,
but it's prickly enough to walk through that the little ones won't do it.

I know fences aren't always attractive, and I know they aren't foolproof. 
But they're better than nothing as a deterrent, and they're MUCH better
than what COULD happen.

Besides, there's so many nifty things you can do in the way of fencing!  A
rustic pond would look wonderful with a woven-willow fence, for example. 
A Japanese garden could use bamboo...  Look at it as a creative challenge
rather than a nuisance.

If you're totally dead-set against a fence, you could try barrier plants. 
The problem with those is that they keep YOU away from the pond as well. 
(In the above case, the open-work fence blocks access for little bodies,
but is easily maneuvered by taller ones.)

The only other suggestion I have in regards to your kids is make sure they
understand that the pond is for looking at, not touching.  My parents
built a pond in our backyard when I was 2 and my brother was 1.  We were
told repeatedly that we couldn't go near it without Mommy or Daddy.  Maybe
my folks spent a lot of time with us out there - maybe we were just really
good kids (yeah, right!).  But neither my brother or I ever went near the
pond without my folks.

Of course, my mom also kept us out of the living room by telling us there
was a ghost under the sofa that would grab our ankles if we went in
there.  I don't recall, but there might have been a similar haunt near the
pond...  ;)

Good luck!

- Hendy

*********************************************************************
Hendy Lund                         hendy@cisco.com
"To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.  Moderation is 
for monks"       - L.  Long
*********************************************************************


From jwasson@eznet.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:35 EST 1994
Article: 227 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!roch0.eznet.net!NewsWatcher!user
From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 00:05:50 -0400
Organization: One World, One People, One Future
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <jwasson-2812940005500001@198.70.51.21>
References: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net> <3dqmu5$d5j@pentagon.io.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-2.eznet.net

In article <3dqmu5$d5j@pentagon.io.com>, sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve
Jackson) wrote:

> Whatever you do, make sure that your pond water is clean, free of both
> chemical contamination and human waste runoff, before you think of eating
> from it. Again, your state Department of Agriculture can bury you in
> information.

Actually another thing I was thinking about was filtering a grey water
treatment system into the pond as well. The grey water would be all water
sewage from the house, *except* for actual toilet stuff (the toilets will
be composting ones). The grey water would go through a few plant box
container, perculate through the soil, and then be funneled to the pond. I
don't really expect a lot of water, except maybe when the clothes are
washed.

-Jason Wasson
-- 
jwasson@eznet.net

Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live


From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:36 EST 1994
Article: 228 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Pond Cleaning
Message-ID: <kludgeD1Iz4C.5At@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
References: <3dmpn1$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu> <9412280252597.DLITE.mikepowe@delphi.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 14:33:48 GMT
Lines: 8

In article <9412280252597.DLITE.mikepowe@delphi.com> mikepowe@delphi.com writes:
>number of dead fish after my wife tried cleaning the 
>waterfall with bleach.  Afterward, I have still been

Please!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BLONDES.

-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:37 EST 1994
Article: 229 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!ford.wpd.sgi.com!peteo
From: peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter Orelup)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Spawning Koi
Date: 28 Dec 1994 18:46:49 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 43
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dsbqp$n4e@fido.asd.sgi.com>
References: <3dcpaf$egl@mojo.eng.umd.edu> <3do5or$rtt@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ford.wpd.sgi.com

In article <3do5or$rtt@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mattd486@aol.com
(MattD486) writes:
|> Hi,
|>     Temperature is not nearly as important as is the spawning media. 
|> Any
|> five degree (max) drop in water temp will cause the fish, both koi
|> and
|> goldfish, to spawn.  The trick, howevr, is to have the proper media. 
|> The
|> best and cheapest is water hyacinth's roots.   You can also use
|> netting or
|> a bath scruuber made of plastic filament.  If or when you kind the
|> fry
|> separate them.
|> 

I'm no koi expert, but from my experience Matt is correct.  Last season my
koi started spawning in April here in Mountain View.  The koi dealer told me
they wouldn't spawn at all, that it took very special conditions to get the
fish to spawn.  My experience with golfish in an outdoor pond with a variety
of plants had been that it was nearly impossible to stop them from spawning!

The koi's favorite spawning medium turned out to be the parrot's feather
roots that form a kind of mat about an inch below the water surface.  I
wasn't sure what was happening when I first saw two koi, one following the
other, climb up and over the parrot's feather mat.  The fish were almost
completely out of the water at times as they wriggled across the roots.  The
water temperature was in the low 60's at the time the fish started spawning.
They continued spawning all through April until they became Heron food (a
sad story I've already told several times on the net.)  I have about 20
koi now, all the product of last April's frolic.

My various goldfish spawned from April until late into the summer.  They seem
to prefer the water hyacinth roots.

Pete


------
Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875




From pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 30 21:00:38 EST 1994
Article: 230 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!stntnbry.demon.co.uk!pete
From: pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk (Pete Bradbury)
Subject: Re: How to keep pond water clear ?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: stntnbry.demon.co.uk
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References: <3dhst0$gtg@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com> <lralph.80.022A365A@dataflux.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 18:11:30 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <lralph.80.022A365A@dataflux.bc.ca> lralph@dataflux.bc.ca (len ralph) wrote:


> You need lots of plants of the oxygenating variety.  These plants suck up the 
> soluble nitrates and phosphates from fish doo doo. etc...

Whole heartedly agree, but most clarity problems occur when ponds are
too small to accomadate a balanced ecosystem. Waterborne green algalblooms
typically occur in hot bright weather and in those cases small ponds can 
either be shaded or a UV clarifier used to disrupt the algae and gradually
destroy it.

My pond is a mere 7 x 8 x 2 feet suffers blooms in summer but the UV works
brilliantly.  Smaller ponds with Koi and goldfish don't allow plants to 
flourish, therefore I use a biological filter in my waterfall to clean up
whatever gunk the fish excrete.  I have a superb crop of watercress, just
right for summer salads.

-- 
Pete Bradbury


From jopowers@delphi.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:40 EST 1994
Article: 231 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!jopowers
From: jopowers@delphi.com (John R. Powers, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 28 Dec 1994 07:51:33 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <9412280252591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
References: <3dmpn1$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1c.delphi.com
X-To: John R. Powers, Jr. <jopowers@delphi.com>

 
>: > I'm curious as to how many other people are maintaining their ponds in
the
>  
>: > winter.  Mostly, I'm curious about small ponds (mine is 800gal)    

    One problems I know of with ponds freezing, other than the pond freezing
solid, is that toxic gases from decaying leaves (if you didn't clean well
enough) and respiring fish get trapped beneath the pond.  By keeping a small
part of the pond open, the gases will be allowed to dissipate.  
    I also was told that by using a pump or air stone thruout the winter,
ice crystals could form in the water and be blown by current down into the
gills of the fish.  I do not know if this is true, but it makes sense to
me.



From peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:41 EST 1994
Article: 232 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!ford.wpd.sgi.com!peteo
From: peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter Orelup)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Lots of pond questions!
Date: 28 Dec 1994 19:04:27 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 40
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dscrr$n4e@fido.asd.sgi.com>
References: <3di9gl$1l6@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ford.wpd.sgi.com

In article <3di9gl$1l6@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>, fueston@snowcrest.net
(Kathy Fueston) writes:
|> 
|> Living in a high desert area, with long cold, winters and short, hot
|> summers, I  have wondered about how much water it would take to keep
|> my
|> pond at an even level.  I have a good water supply, but my well is 
|> over 200 feet deep and with the drought in the west, we really don't
|> know
|> how much water is over our pump.  Our summers can be very hot and
|> dry. 
|> Would I being using lots and lots of water to keep the level up?  I
|> am
|> thinking about a pond maybe, eight feet by ten feet, not too large.
|> 

Ponds don't have to consume lots of water.  I find that my pond uses less
water in the summer than an equal area of lawn.  Plants like water lilies
that cover the water surface and shade the pond help reduce evaporation.
You should also avoid running fountains or waterfalls during the midday
heat.  I have my stream/waterfall on a timer that keeps it off from about
9 am to 4pm on weekdays when no one is their to enjoy it anyway.  My pond
is also relatively deep (about 3 feet) which helps keep the water temp.
down.

|> Another question I have often wondered about is about mosquitos.  They
|> can be a real problem here in our area as we have some irrigation about.
|> I have been told that mosquito eating fish will take care of the problem.
|> I have planned to stock the pond with common goldfish.  Do you think
|> this would take care of the mosquito problem?
|> 

In my experience, goldfish do just fine at controlling mosquitos.

Pete


------
Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:42 EST 1994
Article: 233 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Lots of pond questions!
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 13:14:05 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <carienix-281294131405@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <3di9gl$1l6@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu

In article <3di9gl$1l6@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>, fueston@snowcrest.net
(Kathy Fueston) wrote:

ge.
> 
> Another question I have often wondered about is about mosquitos.  They
> can be a real problem here in our area as we have some irrigation about.
> I have been told that mosquito eating fish will take care of the problem.
> I have planned to stock the pond with common goldfish.  Do you think
> this would take care of the mosquito problem?

When the goldfish are small, they are good at eating mosquito larvae (and
frog tadpoles).  You might want to just try some guppies, variatus platies,
or some small native fish.  
  
> We used to have a good abundance of naturally occuring tree frogs and 
> toads in our area, but the drought of the last few years has really cut
> down their numbers.  I would like to encourage them to come back and I
> know that they would really help with the mosquito problems... should I
> try to bring some in when the pond is built, or see if nature will
> naturally take care of the prolem?
> 
If there are any still around, they will find your pond.  I'm sure it will
be like a magnet with the drought. 


From en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:43 EST 1994
Article: 234 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!en767
From: en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerald W. Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Lots of pond questions!
Date: 28 Dec 1994 09:02:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3dr9ib$s8v@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


I won't try to answer all your questions, but I now a little
about frogs. Around here (western Oregon) the rule is "If you
build it, they will come." But since frongs may be a little more
scarce in your area, it wouldn't hurt to bring in a cluster of
frog eggs. Then your only problem will be hearing yourself think.
-- 
Gerry Roe    Trans-Pacific Nursery    Rare & Exotic Plants
Email catalog available.    gwroe@calvin.linfield.edu


From en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:43 EST 1994
Article: 235 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!en767
From: en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerald W. Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: LilyPons -- catalog address
Date: 28 Dec 1994 09:07:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3dr9s7$slj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


The address you want is:

Lilypons Water Gardens
6800 Lilypons road
P.O. Box 10
Buckeystown, MD 21717-0010
1-800-999-5459

But I warn you, check your bank balance before ordering the 
catalog.
-- 
Gerry Roe    Trans-Pacific Nursery    Rare & Exotic Plants
Email catalog available.    gwroe@calvin.linfield.edu


From en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:44 EST 1994
Article: 236 of rec.ponds
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From: en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerald W. Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Cliff Stoll's article
Date: 28 Dec 1994 09:13:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3dra76$64@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


Wow, if Cliff Stoll can control raccoons, he's really on to 
something. I hear catching hackers is a cinch in comparison.
-- 
Gerry Roe    Trans-Pacific Nursery    Rare & Exotic Plants
Email catalog available.    gwroe@calvin.linfield.edu


From gwoods@nyx.cs.du.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:45 EST 1994
Article: 237 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail
From: gwoods@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gary  Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: 28 Dec 1994 08:09:40 -0700
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <3drv3k$rko@nyx.cs.du.edu>
References: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net> <3dqmu5$d5j@pentagon.io.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx.cs.du.edu

In article <3dqmu5$d5j@pentagon.io.com>,
Steve Jackson <sj@pentagon.io.com> wrote:
>In article <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net>,
>Jason Wasson <jwasson@eznet.net> wrote:
>>I'm interested in building a pond that I can eventually stock with fish
>>and use as a small scale aqua-farm (an aqua-garden?).
>
>If aquaculture is feasible in your climate, your state Department of
>Agriculture will probably be happy to BURY you in pamphlets, and they
>might even be a source of cheap fingerlings to stock your pond. If it's
>not feasible, they'll tell you that, too.
>
>Here in Taixuss, the easiest fish "crop" is catfish. Up there, I don't know.
>
>A lot depends on whether you are really talking about a crop you can
>harvest and sell, or whether you just want to catch yourself a fish dinner
>every week or so!
Up here (upstate NY),  largemouth bass do pretty well, if you keep 'em
thinned (I prefer the six-pack and spinner method), and you should be able
to catch as many as your family cares to eat.

The bass also serve to tie up nutrients thaat would otherwise feed algae.
Bonus!

We grow some hardy lilies, too "potted" in plastic pails... they're 
currently wintering in the cold cellar.

Anyway, good luck.... 

Gary




From pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:46 EST 1994
Article: 238 of rec.ponds
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From: pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 10:34:16 -0500
Organization: UMmed
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: beaker.ab.umd.edu

I am a novice who is interested in building an indoor pond/waterfall.  I
am seeking information on how to build such a thing.  Are there ways to
make synthetic rock?  I have looked at commercial pond liners but they are
expensive and sometimes gaudy.  I would like information so that I don't
have to re-invent the wheel.  What resources are availbale to me?  Can
someone recommend books or catalogs?  Thanks in advance and please feel
free to send any information you feel helpful to my E-mail or post on this
thread and I will wait.
   Peter


From bienek@convex.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:47 EST 1994
Article: 239 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!not-for-mail
From: bienek@convex.com (Mike Bienek)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Herons
Date: 28 Dec 1994 10:12:58 -0600
Organization: Engineering, Convex Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3ds2qa$305@flare.convex.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: flare.convex.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

A question was posted asking how to keep Herons from visiting a larger
pond (aside from illegally killing them).

One way is during the construction of the pond. If the sides slope
sharply, for the first three feet, the bird has trouble wading and
will search for easier places the hunt. The worst thing you can do
is create shallow flats of about a foot deep. The shallower water
will fill up with frogs and minnows drawing the larger fish in and
then the heron has prime hunting grounds.

My brother is getting ready to build a five acre pond and the advise
above was given by the agricultural service.

I've also seen many questions about whether gold fish will eat mosquitos.
DEFINITELY! I have a small rock water fall and pond (6x3) just off my
porch and the gold fish take care of the mosquitos quite nicely.


-- 

Mike Bienek			"I am always 100% sure of my view ...
Convex Computer Corporation	 no matter how many times I change it."
(214) 497-4586


From snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca Fri Dec 30 21:00:47 EST 1994
Article: 240 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!snorth
From: snorth@acs.ucalgary.ca (Sheldon North)
Subject: Running fountains and waterfalls in midday heat
Message-ID: <Dec28.202407.52123@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 20:24:07 GMT
References: <3di9gl$1l6@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> <3dscrr$n4e@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 17

Peter Orelup (peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com) wrote:

: You should also avoid running fountains or waterfalls during the midday
: heat.  

The reason I put my waterfall in was to circulate and oxygenate
the water when the water temperature peaks.  I try to keep the
evaporation down by only running the pump when I am out in the
yard and when the water temperature is really hot.


Since we have chinooks here throught the year, evaporation isn't
necessarily the highest at midday.  

JMTS,

Sheldon


From gaf@cam.ov.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:48 EST 1994
Article: 241 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!pad-thai.cam.ov.com!cam.ov.com!gaf
From: gaf@cam.ov.com (Gary A Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: I have just purchased a home with a beaver dam and pond
Date: 28 Dec 1994 15:10:46 GMT
Organization: OpenVision Technologies, Inc.
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <GAF.94Dec28101046@dal.cam.ov.com>
References: <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> <3dqmjv$cnh@pentagon.io.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal.cam.ov.com
In-reply-to: sj@pentagon.io.com's message of 27 Dec 1994 21:38:39 -0600


Beavers eat the bark of hardwood saplings, and will generally leave pine
and other softwoods alone (though I imagine they might take them under
duress).  They will take down larger trees for construction use and (I think)
to get at the tender upper branches for food.  I was told by one of our
Wildlife officers that specimen trees can be protected by sturdy metal
fencing, several feet high, around the trunk, as the beavers will go after
easier pickings.  Other than maybe replanting harvested areas with seedlings,
I doubt you could do much to increase their food supply.

The typical family will have the parents, the yearlings, and the kits.  The
yearlings will be evicted in the fall, to make room for the next litter
the following spring.  It's possible that the yearlings will set up house
close enough to have an impact on the food supply of the original den.  I
think their lifespan is on the order of ten years, but at some point some
lucky offspring will get to inherit their parent's mansion, assuming the
food supply is still there.

They don't have much in the way of natural predators, since their ponds are
a great defense.  A misfallen tree is as likely to take one as a carnivore.  
Bears, wolves, or coyotes may get lucky from time to time.  The kits are
usually pretty big before they'll stray from the protection of their
elders, so it's unlikely that a hawk or smaller mammalian predator would
take one.  It's conceivable that a snapping turtle or snake could do
some damage, but unlikely.

Beavers can carry deer ticks, which in turn can carry Lyme disease.  It's
also possible for them to get rabies.  So photograph them from a distance,
and be very, very suspicious of any beaver that loses its natural fear
of people.

They don't like to stray far from the safety of their ponds, so figure their
feeding area to be roughly fifty feet out from the edge (usually less).  With
a small pond, a large family can exhaust the food supply.  They may move on
(in which case nature's miracle cycle may turn the pond into a beaver
meadow), but they also may build up their dam in order to make the pond larger,
thus increasing their access to food.  

If a higher dam were to threaten your house, you might (depending on
local regulations) install a beaver pipe which can thwart their efforts
to raise the water level (with mixed success), or you might have some limited
trapping done in order to match their population to the area that you're
willing to share.  They're rodents, and while their population was greatly
reduced around the turn of the century, they've bounced back with a vengance
and are nowhere close to being endangered (though their ponds serve as
sanctuary for other species, such as herons, that are threatened).

In any event, I encourage you to contact your local Conservation or
Wildlife departments for guidance on living with the beavers.  I also
encourage you to be considerate of your human neighbors; while the
pond may not threaten your house, it will serve as a steady source of
yearlings who might build dams that threaten neighbor's homes (as is
the case with us), depending on local terrain.

If you have well water, you should also make sure to have your water 
tested regularly for bacterial and other contamination.  If you have a
septic system, make sure that the pond doesn't encroach on your leach field.
Beavers may excel at civil engineering, but they didn't bother taking
any sanitary engineering classes.

   Gary



From hetlil@magritte.its.rpi.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:49 EST 1994
Article: 242 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!satisfied.elf.com!rpi!hetlil
From: hetlil@magritte.its.rpi.edu (Leo J. Hetling)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: 28 Dec 1994 16:32:53 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3ds3vl$jic@usenet.rpi.edu>
References: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net> <3dqmu5$d5j@pentagon.io.com> <jwasson-2812940005500001@198.70.51.21>
NNTP-Posting-Host: magritte.its.rpi.edu

	Remember that graywater contains a lot of cleaning compounds many of
which are toxic.  I would be very caryful of useing it.  It also contains
 blood and vomit since they go into the sink drain when cleaning up.

				Leo Hetling
				hetlil@rpi.edu
 




From gregory_giese@admail.fnal.gov Fri Dec 30 21:00:50 EST 1994
Article: 243 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!giese.fnal.gov!user
From: gregory_giese@admail.fnal.gov (Gregory A. Giese)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Herons
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 15:08:49 -0600
Organization: Fermilab
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <gregory_giese-2812941508490001@giese.fnal.gov>
References: <3ds2qa$305@flare.convex.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: giese.fnal.gov

In article <3ds2qa$305@flare.convex.com>, bienek@convex.com (Mike Bienek) wrote:

> I've also seen many questions about whether gold fish will eat mosquitos.
> DEFINITELY! I have a small rock water fall and pond (6x3) just off my
> porch and the gold fish take care of the mosquitos quite nicely.
> 
Yes, indeed. Goldfish will eat anything. I've used a pair indoors in my
aquariums to clean the bottom of a tank. They actually pick up the stones,
do their thing and spit them out. Saves vacuuming!
gg


From carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Fri Dec 30 21:00:50 EST 1994
Article: 244 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu!user
From: carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Carie Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Low work pond for chronically fatigued?
Followup-To: rec.ponds
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 15:00:42 +0800
Organization: INHS
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <carienix-281294150042@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
References: <3dse3i$h1u@canopus.sim.es.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu

In article <3dse3i$h1u@canopus.sim.es.com>, krogers@canopus.sim.es.com
(Keith Rogers) wrote:


> So I'd like an honest appraisal as to whether such a pond is out of
> the question for me or not.  The key phrase is "low work".  I'd rather
> not have one if it really requires me to spend more time at it than I
> have energy for.  On the other hand, I'd have lots of time to observe
> one during my "off" days.
> 
As long as you don't put too many fish in your pond, and as long as you
feel good enough to scoop out dead leaves every once in a while, (it only
takes minutes), and thin out some of the plants every now and then when
they get overruly, and there is no rule as to when and how often, I don't
see any problem.  In fact, on the days when you don't feel like doing
anything except sit by your pond and look at it, it will be very relaxing. 
When I don't feel good, but the weather is nice enough to be outside, I
like to sit by my pond and watch the fish, plants, bugs, etc.  Go for it!  


From stormy@earthlink.net Fri Dec 30 21:00:53 EST 1994
Article: 245 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!stormy.earthlink.net!user
From: stormy@earthlink.net (Stormy S. Knight)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Brown water
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 17:23:11 -0800
Organization: Earth Tools
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <stormy-2812941723110001@stormy.earthlink.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stormy.earthlink.net

I am thrilled that rec. ponds showed up on my newsgroup and here's why.

About 2 months ago, my husband and I put in a 6' x 8' pond w/ black liner,
filter and small fountain. After filling w/ water, we let it rest for 2
weeks to stabilize (we live in Los Angeles w/ lots of clorinates in our
water) then put in plants, turtle and small koi. Ther location of the pond
is under what we believe is an elm tree, situated so that it gets filtered
light in winter & summer and full sun in spring and fall.

The problem is our water has become clear but brown, like strong tea
colored. Leaves are  dropping in the water and we are fishing them out
each day, which is not a problem and we enjoy doing it, but we don't know
if the water discoloration is a sign that something is wrong or not. We
don't have an algae problem to speak of and the only other signs that
something may be wrong is: 1) there is a small amount of foam on the
surface around the fountain & 2) our turtle, in the last couple of days
has been tucking his tail to the side of his body. The koi are fine and
have grown noticebly bigger in a month+.

We have noticed in the past that when this trees leaves collect on our
patio & it rains, it leaves a temporary brown stain on the concrete.

I know we may be dumb, but this is our first pond and we hope maybe
someone with more experience could help us keep our pond healthy. We have
read "Pondscapes" for about 6 months, but we can't find any references to
this problem there in the 2 pond books we have.

TIA
Stormy


From visitor@schirra.larc.nasa.gov Fri Dec 30 21:00:54 EST 1994
Article: 246 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!schirra.larc.nasa.gov!visitor
From: visitor@schirra.larc.nasa.gov (Visitor Account)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Looking for Statues
Date: 28 Dec 1994 17:39:59 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ds7tf$e7b@reznor.larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: schirra.larc.nasa.gov

I am looking for statues of the Buddha, or of Kuan Yin, to place in a 
small pedestal in the middle of my pond.  I would prefer a seated Buddha,
if it is to be the Buddha.  However, none of the cement contractors around
here have seen cement molds for such a thing.  I have seen plaster molds,
but they are too small and detailed to be useable for cement.  Does anyone
know of a company selling cement statues like this?


From exudms@exu.ericsson.se Fri Dec 30 21:00:55 EST 1994
Article: 247 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!news
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Small Pond
Date: 29 Dec 1994 00:04:04 GMT
Organization: Ericsson North America Inc.
Lines: 54
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dsudk$rde@cnn.exu.ericsson.se>
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In article J1u@umassd.edu,  jfeinstein@umassd.edu (Jonathan E. Feinstein) writes:
()In article <3dbv4e$ohs@nova.voicenet.com>, SirWill1@omni.voicenet.com (SirWill1) writes:
()>Jonathan E. Feinstein (jfeinstein@umassd.edu) wrote:
()>
()>[snip]
()>
()>:     However, I do keep the filter going all winter (the fish have to fend for 
()>: themselves foodwise though). The warm weather configuration has the pump 
()>: sending the water over a series of rocks to simulate a natural spring, but in
()>: the winter I move the pump from the bottom to a shelf only 15 inches deep
()>: and attach a fountain tube (open-ended, no fountain head)that reaches just 
()>: an inch below the surface. This keeps a hole open in the ice throughout
()>: most of the SE New England winter. During particularly cold weather a dome of
()>: ice will form over the bubbling water, looking it look much like an old-
()>: fashioned coffee percolator, but a sharp blow with a crow bar will shatter 
()>: this dome and some winters even that is not necessary.
()>
()>Hmmm....doesn't your filter need cleaning during the winter. I gave up on 
()>climbing into the pond when the water is belo 40 degrees -- even with 
()>waders on it's torture. I used to come out with my forearms blue up to 
()>the elbows. A friend once commented that it looked as if I'd lost 
()>something of value in one of those chemical toilets on an airplane and 
()>reached in to retrieve it.
()
()    Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. We had a fair-dinkum Noreaster
()here in New England last Friday and the VAX I access Usenet through took a
()hit and was down until today.
()
()    I see others have also mentioned using the pump on all winter (the
()bubbler method) already. I've found that the muck that forms in the pond 
()doesn't proliferate during the winter anywhere near as quickly as it does
()during the warmer seasons. Consequently, I don't usually need to clean out 
()the filter more than once or twice all winter, and even then I could probably 
()let it go until spring if I got lazy. It was a warm autumn this year so I
()winterized late, so I'll just pick a relatively warm day in January or 
()February (mid-winter thaw doubles as the time I maintain the pond and when I
()start tapping the maples for sap). It helps, of course that I don't have to
()actually jump into the pond in order to get the pump out, but then I designed
()it with that (among other considerations) in mind.

My pump and filter are both external. A pool pump and bio filter work very well
to keep the water clear. My only worry is to keep the intake valve from the pond
into the pump free of leaves and plants.

I was told to always keep the pump running to keep the water from freezing in
the winter. I designed a duel line from the pump, one to the filter, and the other
to the water fall with shut-off valves to regulate the flow. Since my filter is
a biological type, I only have to clean the top foam when it get too gunky for the
water to pass through.

/Dave




From some-user@eznet.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:56 EST 1994
Article: 248 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!foothills.foothills.eznet.com!eznet.com!some-user
From: some-user@eznet.com (Marian Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Great Group!
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 17:31:52
Organization: Internet Connection
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X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

Finally!  Net people to talk about my pond!  You'll be hearing from me 
frequently after the ice melts this spring,

I've got a small pond I made myself, lined with roofing rubber that I was able
to get wholesale from a contractor supply house.

In the meantime, can anybody recommend another type of liner for small ponds
(say 20'  X  20' max) that is inexpensive and durable?  I want to enlarge 
and/or build a bigger one after it warms up.



From some-user@eznet.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:56 EST 1994
Article: 249 of rec.ponds
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From: some-user@eznet.com (Marian Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Submersible Water Pumps
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 18:02:34
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In article <3dfk1b$1n7@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> jc@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Jerry Carden) writes:

>We found the same thing at Farm & Fleet- not just with pumps but other pond
>type stuff as well.  We bought a Rubbermaid stock tank (300 gal) that we
>sunk in our backyard for our watergarden- it was MUCH cheaper and probably
>more durable than the preformed pools we've seen elsewhere.

>Jerry Carden

Jerry:

What were the approximate costs and dimensions for the 300 gal stock tank?

TIA.



From tom@carla Fri Dec 30 21:00:58 EST 1994
Article: 250 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pendragon!carla!tom
From: tom@carla (Tom Robinson/Metrica)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Lots of pond questions!
Date: 28 Dec 1994 19:19:24 GMT
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX, USA
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Kathy Fueston (fueston@snowcrest.net) wrote:
: Hi everyone!

: Living in a high desert area, with long cold, winters and short, hot
: summers, I  have wondered about how much water it would take to keep my
: pond at an even level.  I have a good water supply, but my well is 
: over 200 feet deep and with the drought in the west, we really don't know
: how much water is over our pump.  Our summers can be very hot and dry. 
: Would I being using lots and lots of water to keep the level up?  I am
: thinking about a pond maybe, eight feet by ten feet, not too large.

My pond is approximately 70 percent as large as the one you want to build
(assuming a depth of 18 inches.)  I live in Houston where it's highly humid but
also very hot.  (90 - 100 percent humidity with temperatures of 90 to 100 is
standard in the summer.)  If there's no rain, I lose about an inch of water
every 3 days.  Given the size of my pond, I estimate this to be about 40
gallons.  I would expect to lose even more in a dry climate.  How much more?
I don't know.  You could beg, borrow, or buy an inflatable children's swimming
pool and do some testing.

: Another question I have often wondered about is about mosquitos.  They
: can be a real problem here in our area as we have some irrigation about.
: I have been told that mosquito eating fish will take care of the problem.
: I have planned to stock the pond with common goldfish.  Do you think
: this would take care of the mosquito problem?

: We used to have a good abundance of naturally occuring tree frogs and 
: toads in our area, but the drought of the last few years has really cut
: down their numbers.  I would like to encourage them to come back and I
: know that they would really help with the mosquito problems... should I
: try to bring some in when the pond is built, or see if nature will
: naturally take care of the prolem?

Within three weeks after filling my pond, I had frogs coming out of the
woodwork.  They were immensely prolific and between them and their offspring
were more than a match for the mosquitos, and the mosquitos here are awful...
why do I live in this place? :)

: Well, I have lots more questions, but I will not bore you with all of this
: at once.

Good luck!

--
Tom Robinson/Metrica


From krogers@es.com Fri Dec 30 21:00:59 EST 1994
Article: 251 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!orca.sim.es.com!not-for-mail
From: krogers@canopus.sim.es.com (Keith Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Low work pond for chronically fatigued?
Date: 28 Dec 1994 12:25:38 -0700
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Lines: 35
Sender: Keith Rogers
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I've planned to have a pond for years but before I could build one I
got chronic fatigue syndrome.  I'm wondering if I can still have one.
The biggest handicap with this thrice be-damned fatigue is that I
can't do anything that requires sustained periodic maintenance.  I'll
have weeks of feeling fine then weeks of being so wiped out I can
barely go to work.  There's no guessing when these periods come and
go.  I could work while feeling good to get a pond set up but after
it's going it'd have to be mostly on its own.  It can't rely upon me
being up to snuff in the fall or spring for cleaning and such.

Here's the kind of pond I'd like:

Being a botany nut my envisioned pond would be about 75% marsh and
shallow water plants with a few feeder comets dumped in each spring to
fill out that niche.  I'll sheepishy toss out that I'm actually most
interested in cultivating invertibrates for animal life.  Frogs and
such are cool and I hope some find the digs sustaining but what I
really want is a large diverse plant and insect ark.  Plants and
animals must not require pampering or overwintering so natives and
native thriving species are all I'll consider.  Size would be on the
order of 2000 gallons.  Lots of bushes and shrubs would be planted
around the pond for near-water hiding places.  I figure I'd raid the
local arboretum's pond a few times over a season for some muck to get
some great insect/algae/microbe innoculations.

So I'd like an honest appraisal as to whether such a pond is out of
the question for me or not.  The key phrase is "low work".  I'd rather
not have one if it really requires me to spend more time at it than I
have energy for.  On the other hand, I'd have lots of time to observe
one during my "off" days.

Thanks for any replies,
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@es.com


From trufax@pnw.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:00 EST 1994
Article: 252 of rec.ponds
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From: trufax@pnw.net (Mike Buchanan)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: City Pond Raccoons
Date: 28 Dec 1994 21:27:30 -0800
Organization: Pacific Northwest Net
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From kernsj@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Fri Dec 30 21:01:01 EST 1994
Article: 253 of rec.ponds
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From: kernsj@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Jonathon Kerns)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Commisioner Lin and the Opium [Molasses] War
Followup-To: alt.drugs,rec.ponds,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.netherlands
Date: 28 Dec 1994 23:32:23 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.drugs:106164 rec.ponds:253 soc.culture.singapore:34324 soc.culture.china:133439 soc.culture.netherlands:29717


      Oh, wow man, I see it, I see the connection... Ponds, opium,
cool.  Hey pass that thing back this way, ok?
-- 
"My father was ridiculed, especially for his name, which he despised.
The older boys called Marion "little girl."...one of the reasons my
father acted so macho in later life was to compensate for this
childhood torment;I believe it scarred him deeply" A.Wayne, d.of John


From dpk@acpub.duke.edu Fri Dec 30 21:01:02 EST 1994
Article: 254 of rec.ponds
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From: dpk@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Kanipe)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: I have just purchased a home with a beaver dam and pond
Date: 29 Dec 1994 05:49:27 GMT
Organization: Duke University
Lines: 67
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In article <3dqmjv$cnh@pentagon.io.com>, sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson) says:
>
>In article <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>,
>Perry M. Hidalgo <perry@astro.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I have just bought a home with a stream and Beavers have created
>> a pond for me.
>> How can I keep my pond?  What should I offer the beaver?  
>
>(spammy 25-line signature deleted with prejudice)
>
>You should do a bit of research on beavers, if you're not
>familiar with them. Two possible drawbacks to having them . . . 
>
>(1) They will cut down and eat/use the trees THEY want, and there's no
>way I know of that you can influence their choices. Do beaver-proof
>tree guards exist?

They can also be very sloppy about it.  Arbitrarily cutting down a tree,
then deciding they don't want it.

>(2) They're second only to mankind in the way they remodel
>Nature to suit themselves. Take a good look at their dam site and
>make sure that it has no chance of flooding areas you don't want
>flooded. Like your new home, for instance.

Quadruple Affirmative!  As long as your house is situated well above the 
flood plain, there shouldn't be a problem.  If your house is in danger of 
being flooded out, well... that's your decision.

>
>I suggest that if the beavers are still at work, you get a videocam
>and a zoom lens, and take the opportunity to do some nature photography.

For the most part, I think that they are nocturnal.  :-(

>Hmm. I have the impression that beavers would eat water lily roots, so
>you may be limited in what you plant in your new pond. Anyone know
>for sure? OTOH, if you can help cattail (or whatever the equivalent is
>for your area) get established more quickly than it naturally would, 
>you'll beautify the area and provide wildlife food . . . and the
>Typha species, once established, will keep way ahead of root-nibblers.

Please, please, please, check with your state wildlife agency or fish and
game department before introducing any non-native flora!  Since the beavers
have dammed a creek that probably falls under the public waterways category,
you don't want to introduce anything that will spread uncontrollably.  
This could be disaterous for the eco-system and yourself should the Game 
Wardens find out.  In a situation like this, I would strongly suggest
encouraging going with native species.  A very good source of information
besides your department of fish and wildlife (or equivalent) would be 
your local chapter of Ducks Unlimited.  They can suggest native species
of plants that will encourage waterfowl to reside or visit your pond 
regularly.  Also, if the pond is secluded and large enough, you may want 
to put up some Wood Duck nesting boxes if the species breeds in your area.
Again, Ducks Unlimited can tell you the way to properly install the boxes.
Another good addition would be to install some Bat Boxes.  Several sporting 
and garden catalogues offer them now.  Bats will cut down tremendously on
mosquitos in the summer, plus they're fun to watch!

All in all, you are indeed in an enviable situation as far as the potential
that your beaver pond offers.  As long as there aren't too many disturbances
>from  construction or dogs, then the beavers should stay.  

Cheers,

dpk


From trufax@pnw.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:03 EST 1994
Article: 255 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!brookes.pnw.net!cascade.pnw.net!not-for-mail
From: trufax@pnw.net (Mike Buchanan)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: City Pond Raccoons
Date: 28 Dec 1994 21:47:58 -0800
Organization: Pacific Northwest Net
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cascade.pnw.net

Subject: City Pond Raccoons
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Summary: 
Keywords: 

Subject: City Pond Raccoons
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Summary: 
Keywords: 

Great News Group!

 After losing some beautiful Red Cap Orandas to the Raccoons this fall I 
need to build some kind of electric barrier. The pond is a small backyard 
in the city type and has thick wire mesh over the top.
 I can't see where the standard horse electric fence would work in this 
case, any suggestions?

 .............TruFax       
          



From nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk Fri Dec 30 21:01:04 EST 1994
Article: 256 of rec.ponds
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From: nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk (S|ren Erichsen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,alt.1d
Subject: Re: Pond life
Followup-To: alt.1d
Date: 29 Dec 1994 02:05:57 GMT
Organization: News Server at UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education.
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len ralph (lralph@dataflux.bc.ca) wrote:
:  
: >> :  If this group is about ponds with fish and other good stuff
: >> : then here goes:

: >> :  My family has been keeping a pond for about a year now.  As 
: >> : far as ponds go that is probably not too long.  But we have done
: >> : well so far after a few problems.  Some of our fish became victims
: >> : of airborne predators.

I bet that the Duck is in on this!

: >> :  They got the biggest fish of course.  But 
: >> : now that is under control for now.  

: We have otters here that help us from getting too attached to our fish. 
: Occasionally we see one in the pond doing the backstroke with a satisfied grin 
: on his face.

Sounds perfectly like the Duck to me - _otters_? - It's that darn Duck. 
<Phew>

: I built some rocky structures on the bottom of our pond that give the fish 
: some little hidy holes. It also gives some little crannies that both hide and 
: stabilize tippy plant pots.
: Although we have eagles, blue herons, cormorants and kingfishers in the area, 
: we havent any trouble from them yet.

And then somebody claim that Wundeeland is too crowded with differing 
species! Nothing like dem ponders - ponders are realy deep people.

I won't mingle though. Water makes my newly aquired bugs vanish.

	the (Stinkfoot) Pundeer Bunny


From jacqueg@teleport.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:05 EST 1994
Article: 257 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!news.teleport.com!ip-salem-06.teleport.com!user
From: jacqueg@teleport.com (Jacque Greenleaf)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: 29 Dec 1994 02:29:37 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <jacqueg-2812941841370001@ip-salem-06.teleport.com>
References: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-salem-06.teleport.com

In article <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net>,
jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson) wrote:

> I'm interested in building a pond that I can eventually stock with fish
> and use as a small scale aqua-farm (an aqua-garden?). I was wondering if
> anyone else is currently doing this or has any input on this. I have a
> couple of questions so far :)

Sounds like you should get hold of stuff from The New Alchemy Institute. I
don't know if they are still in operation, but for about 10-15 years they
experimented with a lot of stuff related to aquaculture. They used to
publish articles fairly regularly in the 70s-80s in The Co-Evolution
Quarterly (now Whole Earth Review) and Mother Earth News. The Whole Earth
Catalogs from those years will also mention them.

Happy hunting for these sources, and be sure to keep us posted on how you do.


From SGBC@news.delphi.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:06 EST 1994
Article: 258 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!news2.delphi.com!not-for-mail
From: SGBC@news.delphi.com (SGBC@DELPHI.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Glub Glub
Date: 28 Dec 1994 22:25:33 -0500
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3dta7d$c73@news2.delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.delphi.com
Summary: Help.....
Keywords: Glub Glub

                                   
                                   (glub glubb...help..glub)  
                        |||||||     /
                       / o   o \   / 
                      <    >    > /
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From gilman@ocean.bwc.org Fri Dec 30 21:01:06 EST 1994
Article: 259 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!wang!news
From: gilman@ocean.bwc.org (Mark Gilman)
Subject: Re: Books about Ponds
Organization: Baha'i World Centre
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 08:57:52 GMT
Message-ID: <3dttmg$dih@bwc.bwc.org>
References: <jwasson-2712940040410001@dialin-2.eznet.net>
Sender: news@wang.com
Lines: 18

Jason Wasson (jwasson@eznet.net) wrote:
: I'm interested in building a fish pond this summer on some property, and
: was wondering if anybody could recomend some books about ponds. I would be
: more than happy to compile a list of responses and re-post them has a book
: FAQ. BTW, here's a book that I'm going to pick up at the library, I saw it
: advertised in 'Real Goods': 1-800-762-7325:
[snip]
: Jason Wasson

Speaking of an FAQ, I notice that at ftp.cco.caltech.edu, in the 
directory pub/aquaria/mail there is a great list of catalogs and
some other information about ponds.  If someone were to write an FAQ
for this group, it might be possible to persuade the author of that
section to give her permission for the info to appear there.  It
may need to be updated, but it seems comprehensive.  I'm not
volunteering, but perhaps someone could take that on.

Mark


From mpm@sequent.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:07 EST 1994
Article: 260 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!mpm
From: mpm@sequent.com (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Info on pond building?
Message-ID: <1994Dec29.010450.25684@sequent.com>
Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet )
Nntp-Posting-Host: cruncher.sequent.com
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 01:04:50 GMT
Lines: 9

I have 35 acres and have always wanted to construct a pond that 
could support a population of fish (bass, bluegill and catfish).
How do I determine location of the pond, depth, liner needs and
anything eles that I might need to know?  Answers or point me
at a good resource would be much appreciated.

Mike
mpm@sequent.com



From kludge@netcom.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:08 EST 1994
Article: 261 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kludge
From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Looking for Statues
Message-ID: <kludgeD1Kq9r.49A@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for Boatanchor Studies
References: <3ds7tf$e7b@reznor.larc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 13:17:51 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <3ds7tf$e7b@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> visitor@schirra.larc.nasa.gov (Visitor Account) writes:
>I am looking for statues of the Buddha, or of Kuan Yin, to place in a 
>small pedestal in the middle of my pond.  I would prefer a seated Buddha,
>if it is to be the Buddha.  However, none of the cement contractors around
>here have seen cement molds for such a thing.  I have seen plaster molds,
>but they are too small and detailed to be useable for cement.  Does anyone
>know of a company selling cement statues like this?

PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BONZE.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


From trg1@ins.infonet.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:09 EST 1994
Article: 262 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!s137.infonet.net!trg1
From: trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim Prachar)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: City Pond Raccoons
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 09:08:03 cdt
Organization: Technology Resource Group
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net>
References: <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net>
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X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]

In article <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net> trufax@pnw.net (Mike Buchanan) writes:
>From: trufax@pnw.net (Mike Buchanan)
>Subject: City Pond Raccoons
>Date: 28 Dec 1994 21:47:58 -0800

>Subject: City Pond Raccoons
>Newsgroups: rec.ponds
>Summary: 
>Keywords: 

>Subject: City Pond Raccoons
>Newsgroups: rec.ponds
>Summary: 
>Keywords: 

>Great News Group!

> After losing some beautiful Red Cap Orandas to the Raccoons this fall I 
>need to build some kind of electric barrier. The pond is a small backyard 
>in the city type and has thick wire mesh over the top.
> I can't see where the standard horse electric fence would work in this 
>case, any suggestions?

> .............TruFax       
>          

I don't know about your physical restrictions, but I've used electric fence to 
stop raccoons from getting to a sweet-corn patch.  It may require a wire 
placed at two levels to keep them from crawling underneath, but, in my 
experience, it can be very effective against stopping the masked bandits.  I 
too have lost fish to raccoons, but I don't attempt to stop them because I 
don't want the fence around the pond.  Most of my fish have been outside for 
several years so I figure that all of the stupid fish have been eaten by now.  
The smart ones hide in deep water where they're safe.

There may be some local ordinances against this.




From kenworth@halcyon.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:10 EST 1994
Article: 263 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!blv-pm0-ip10.halcyon.com!kenworth
From: kenworth@halcyon.com (Mark L. Kenworthy)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Making a pond pier
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 07:35:01
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <kenworth.17.000795A8@halcyon.com>
References: <D1AA6E.1qM@stortek.com>
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X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

In article <D1AA6E.1qM@stortek.com> hammett@ion (Scott Hammett) writes:
>Anybody have an experience building and installing a floating
>platform with a catwalk connecting the platform to the shore?
>My pond level varies with the spring/summer run-off so I'd
>like the catwalk to adjust with the platform.  

I'd float the platform with plastic 55 gallon drums.  You can pick those up 
here and there for around $15 (ours used to hold Coca-Cola concentrate).  To 
allow the platform to float up and down, hinge the catwalk between it and the 
shore.  A simple system I've seen used was to install eye-bolts on the 
ends of the platforms and run a rod through the eyebolts to make a hinge 
(galvanized pipe with end caps to keep it on would work well).  Strong, cheap, 
and effective.  Also easy to take apart as needed for repairs, winter, etc.  
I'd put a foundation at shore to securely anchor the whole thing.



From dapalmer@exodus.databank.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:11 EST 1994
Article: 264 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.databank.com!exodus.databank.com!dapalmer
From: dapalmer@exodus.databank.com (Dale Palmer )
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Looking for Statues
Date: 29 Dec 1994 21:07:46 GMT
Organization: Databank InterNet News Host
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3dv8f2$gn1@news1.databank.com>
References: <3ds7tf$e7b@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> <kludgeD1Kq9r.49A@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: exodus.databank.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

: PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BONZE.
: --scott
: -- 

PLEASE! This is REC.PONDS, not REC.PUNS
--

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

E-mail: dapalmer@databank.com (ASCII format please)   Dale A. Palmer
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From swhatley@blkbox.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:12 EST 1994
Article: 265 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!news.sesqui.net!blkbox.COM!blkbox!swhatley
From: swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Bull frog won't croak!
Date: 27 Dec 1994 02:21:52 GMT
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

My parents built a 1500 gallon pond over two years.  About six months 
after the pond was built. a baby bull frog moved in.  We have no idea 
where it came from.  Jake will be two years old very soon and its getting 
pretty big.  The only thing is that it has not made a sound, yet.  Does a 
bull frog only croak when there are other bull frogs around?  Actually, 
my dad is glad that Jake is quiet.

Another frog story:

Now, about twice every spring, all of the little land toads come to my 
parent's pond to mate.  During these four day periods, there will be three 
to five dozen toads at one time in my parent's backyard.  I have never 
seen so many frogs and heard so much noise in my life made!  When it's 
over, my Mom will clean out as many of the tadpole eggs as she can 
find.  There will be literally hundreds of strands contain who knows how 
many eggs.

Thanks,
Steven Whatley


From swhatley@blkbox.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:13 EST 1994
Article: 266 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!news.sesqui.net!blkbox.COM!blkbox!swhatley
From: swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How to keep pond water clear ?
Date: 29 Dec 1994 14:51:10 GMT
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3duicu$c47@news.blkbox.com>
References: <3dhst0$gtg@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com> <lralph.80.022A365A@dataflux.bc.ca> <19941228.181130.23@stntnbry.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blkbox.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

My parent's pond becomes green in the summer.  They built a cover over the 
pond using latice board which is about 7ft tall.  So, during the hottest 
part of the day, about 40 to 50 percent of the light is filtered.  This 
year the water did not turn as green as it had in the past.  We live in 
the Texas Golf Coast region.  I hope this helps.

Later,
Steven Whatley



From swhatley@blkbox.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:13 EST 1994
Article: 267 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!news.sesqui.net!blkbox.COM!blkbox!swhatley
From: swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Low work pond for chronically fatigued?
Date: 29 Dec 1994 15:02:31 GMT
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3duj27$c47@news.blkbox.com>
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Carie Nixon (carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: In article <3dse3i$h1u@canopus.sim.es.com>, krogers@canopus.sim.es.com
: (Keith Rogers) wrote:
: > So I'd like an honest appraisal as to whether such a pond is out of
: > the question for me or not.  The key phrase is "low work".  I'd rather
: > not have one if it really requires me to spend more time at it than I
: > have energy for.  On the other hand, I'd have lots of time to observe
: > one during my "off" days.
: > 
: As long as you don't put too many fish in your pond, and as long as you
: feel good enough to scoop out dead leaves every once in a while, (it only
: takes minutes), and thin out some of the plants every now and then when
: they get overruly, and there is no rule as to when and how often, I don't
: see any problem.  In fact, on the days when you don't feel like doing
: anything except sit by your pond and look at it, it will be very relaxing. 
: When I don't feel good, but the weather is nice enough to be outside, I
: like to sit by my pond and watch the fish, plants, bugs, etc.  Go for it!  

I second the motion.  Go for it!  You may find that you feel better after 
spending time watching the pond.  Ponds have an amazing effect on one's 
outlook on life.

You will need help to build it though.  That is a lot of work.  Once it is
built, you would be able to do most of the maintenance yourself.  The 
hardest task is to partually replace the water about twice a year and 
cleaning the filter.  I am sure that someone would be happy to help you 
with that.

God bless and enjoy the pond,
Steven Whatley


From donn@u.washington.edu Fri Dec 30 21:01:14 EST 1994
Article: 268 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!donn
From: donn@u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: I have just purchased a home with a beaver dam and pond
Date: 29 Dec 1994 19:38:51 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3dv38b$s5o@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> <3dqmjv$cnh@pentagon.io.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer03.u.washington.edu

sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson) writes:
...
| (1) They will cut down and eat/use the trees THEY want, and there's no
| way I know of that you can influence their choices. Do beaver-proof
| tree guards exist?

Beavers tend to occasionally hit cottonwoods and other trees here, and the
city has been wrapping the big ones in chickenwire.  It seems to work.
This is an urban situation with a low beaver population density, though,
and what works here may not be enough right next to a beaver pond.

	Donn Cave, donn@cac.washington.edu


From jimm@habanero.hi.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:15 EST 1994
Article: 269 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!sunfish.hi.com!habanero.hi.com!not-for-mail
From: jimm@habanero.hi.com (Jim McGrath)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds as a source of food
Date: 29 Dec 1994 17:15:37 -0500
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3dvce9$hai@habanero.hi.com>
References: <jwasson-2712940052490001@dialin-2.eznet.net> <jacqueg-2812941841370001@ip-salem-06.teleport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: habanero.hi.com

In article <jacqueg-2812941841370001@ip-salem-06.teleport.com> jacqueg@teleport.com (Jacque Greenleaf) writes:
>
>Sounds like you should get hold of stuff from The New Alchemy Institute. I
>don't know if they are still in operation, but for about 10-15 years they
>experimented with a lot of stuff related to aquaculture. They used to
>publish articles fairly regularly in the 70s-80s in The Co-Evolution
>Quarterly (now Whole Earth Review) and Mother Earth News. The Whole Earth
>Catalogs from those years will also mention them.
>
>Happy hunting for these sources, and be sure to keep us posted on how you do.


One of the people from The New Alchemy Institute published an
excellent book on aquiculture, "The Aquiculture Handbook", I think.  I
purchased a copy about five years ago, and my bookstore had to special
order it.  I'll look up the exact name, author, and ISBN after the
holidays.

Jim


From peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:16 EST 1994
Article: 270 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!ford.wpd.sgi.com!peteo
From: peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter Orelup)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: City Pond Raccoons
Date: 29 Dec 1994 20:22:31 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 47
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3dv5q7$i6a@fido.asd.sgi.com>
References: <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net> <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ford.wpd.sgi.com

In article <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net>, trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim
Prachar) writes:
|> 
|> I don't know about your physical restrictions, but I've used electric
|> fence to 
|> stop raccoons from getting to a sweet-corn patch.  It may require a
|> wire 
|> placed at two levels to keep them from crawling underneath, but, in
|> my 
|> experience, it can be very effective against stopping the masked
|> bandits.  I 
|> too have lost fish to raccoons, but I don't attempt to stop them
|> because I 
|> don't want the fence around the pond.  Most of my fish have been
|> outside for 
|> several years so I figure that all of the stupid fish have been eaten
|> by now.  
|> The smart ones hide in deep water where they're safe.
|> 
|> There may be some local ordinances against this.
|> 
|> 

I tried the electric fence approach last summer.  I used the fence Tim
describes around my pond, using just a single level about 4-6" off the
ground.  Before installing the fence, the raccoons would visit almost
every night.  About twice per week they would uproot some plants or tip
over a submerged pot.  They were never able to catch any fish.  I think
their lack of success was due to the depth of the pond: there was no
shallow water for them to wade in while fishing.  The raccoons would try
to step out onto a submerged pot thinking it was a shallow area, tip the
pot over, thrash around trying to find something to stand on, tear up
my lily pads in the process, and finally climb out.

I got tired of cleaning up the mess they made, and installed the fence.
It works great.  I have it on a timer so it's only electrified at night.
I haven't had any raccoon problems since.  I've been told by other local
pondkeepers that a raccoon will get through the fence if it really wants
what's on the other side.  I guess a frustrating swim in my pond just
doesn't have that much appeal.

Pete


------
Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875


From dfoley@skyld.grendel.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:17 EST 1994
Article: 271 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!netcomsv!skyld!dfoley
From: dfoley@skyld.grendel.com (Diane Foley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond Catalogs
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <788744558snx@skyld.grendel.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 23:42:38 GMT
Organization: Grendel's Lair
Lines: 43

You may have already been answered by now (I have been sick in bed for a
little while) but in case you haven't:

Lilypons Water Gardens
P.O. Box 10
Buckeystown, MD 21717

they also have locations in Texas and California that they ship from

MD phone no.: 1-800-999-5459
TX phone no.: 1-800-765-5459
CA phone no.: 1-800-365-5459


Van Ness Water Gardens
2460 North Euclid Ave.
Upland, CA 91784-1199

(909)982-2425

Both catalogs have lots of color pictures, general pond information and
tips, and they both have selections of pumps and liners for sale, not just
plants. I think they want a fee to send you the catalog if you haven't 
ordered from them before..but after I sent a large order to Lilypons they
sent me a "gift certificate" that was more than the "price" of the catalog.
(Good marketing, I guess, since I'm planning on ordering from them again,
to use the certificate..)

I think someone else asked about books..the one that I have liked the most
is "Water Gardens" by Jacqueline Heriteau and Charles B. Thomas, Houghton
Mifflin, 1994. ISBN 0-395-65633-8. Most of the other books at my local
nursery were by British authors, so the climate and plant recommendations
were way off for Southern California! (They will probably be more useful
for people in other parts of the US..but I was getting frustrated.) "Water
Gardens" has the hardiness listed by climate zone so you can get good ideas
no matter where you live.

I hope you have fun with your pond...

Diane Foley

dfoley@skyld.grendel.com  < in case of failed mail, contact below >
US Mail: PO Box 4425 Carson, CA 90749-4425   1 (310) 324-6080


From jfeinstein@umassd.edu Fri Dec 30 21:01:18 EST 1994
Article: 272 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell.uml.edu!umassd.edu!mdcs.umassd.edu!JFEINSTEIN
From: jfeinstein@umassd.edu (Jonathan E. Feinstein)
Subject: Re: Winterizing
Message-ID: <D1LvKB.2Cv@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: jfeinstein@umassd.edu
Organization: UMass Dartmouth, N. Dartmouth, MA.
References: <3dmng4$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>,<3dpl7gINN97b@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 04:09:46 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <3dpl7gINN97b@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel) writes:
>In rec.ponds, rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes) writes:
>(in part)
>
>>We have a 25 by 18 pond with a good stock of fish.  We have been
>>successful at carrying over almost all of our plants (into the basement
>>or in fish aquariums) for the winter except the hyacinth (spelling??))
>
>>Does anyone have any ideas???????????
>
>I can't prove this will work, put my hyacinth are still looking great
>after about 2 months in the basement in an old lotus pot under a fluorescent
>lamp. I'm not aerating or anything, but I am keeping the pot filled
>with pond water vice fresh. I'm hoping that the er ah "nourishment"
>in the pond water will keep them happy until spring.
>
>Here's hoping anyway. - Bill

Bill,

    I sincerely hope you're right. I've never been able to to keep water
hyacinth going indoors past February or so. I tried a similar strategy, except
I had a south-facing window to put them near. I suspect that my problem may 
have been temperature. The room temp often dropped into the low 50's at night
and while this is normally warm enough to sustain them outside, perhaps the 
prolonged period at this temp (as opposed to the gradual warming temps they
get outside) did them in. Obviously the nurseries keep them alive all winter
and their greenhouses tend to be much warner and more humid.

    As a side note, one nursery man told me to put them in a pot with dirt
and that would keep them alive all winter. I've come to the conclusion that 
he was full of... excellent fertilizing material, as that killed them faster 
than any other strategy I've tried.

    Good luck, and let us know how you do.

    Jon.
			---------------------
   			JFeinstein@umassd.edu
        		---------------------

		Immortality is something you need to grow into.


From sj@pentagon.io.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:19 EST 1994
Article: 273 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!illuminati.io.com!nobody
From: sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Fish Hiding From Raccoons
Date: 29 Dec 1994 23:45:56 -0600
Organization: Illuminati Online
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3e06qk$acf@pentagon.io.com>
References: <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net> <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pentagon.io.com

In article <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net>,
Tim Prachar <trg1@ins.infonet.net> wrote:

>The smart ones hide in deep water where they're safe.
>
>There may be some local ordinances against this.


I wouldn't doubt it for a moment :-)



-- 
** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the USSS case - fnord **
   yes, INWO is out - http://io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!


From kywoman2@aol.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:20 EST 1994
Article: 274 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Low work pond for chronically fatigued?
Date: 30 Dec 1994 09:31:10 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 23
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3e15je$mli@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3duj27$c47@news.blkbox.com>
Reply-To: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)

I missed the earlier part of Carrie's thread, but judging from the title
"low work pond for chronically fatigued", I wouldn't advise you getting a
pond, Carrie.

They are fairly complex if you get into biological filtration and such not
to mention that they are back-breaking to build!!!

As Steven stated... you do have to get debris out of the pond from time to
time and you should repot your water plants every year... or every other
year.  That alone is alot of hard work if you have a number of plants in
the pond!!!  If you have a biological filter, it needs to be cleaned too. 
How often depends on what type you have.

I'm pretty fortunate, I guess.  My husband enjoys tinkering with the
ponds.  He gets alot of satisfaction from working at it often.  I DON'T. 
So, I just go out and feed the fish and enjoy them.  I will say, however,
that if it weren't for HIM, I would not have another one.  I personally
wouldn't want to do all the work he does to keep them looking good.  That
would NOT be relaxing for me.

Just a view from the other side <grin>

Rachel/Louisville


From kywoman2@aol.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:20 EST 1994
Article: 275 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Where are you!?
Date: 30 Dec 1994 09:33:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3e15n2$mlp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <499654@shoreline.ca>
Reply-To: kywoman2@aol.com (Ky Woman 2)

>PLEASE INCLUDE WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR MESSAGES<

Great idea, Scott... hmmm... now..... where are YOU from?  <grin>

Rachel/Louisville


From rroemer@access.digex.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:21 EST 1994
Article: 276 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!usenet
From: rroemer@access.digex.net (Rich Roemer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
Date: 30 Dec 1994 15:02:21 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <3e17dt$gge@news1.digex.net>
References: <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dca00508.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.2

In article <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu>, pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma) says:
>
>I am a novice who is interested in building an indoor pond/waterfall.  I
>am seeking information on how to build such a thing.  Are there ways to
>make synthetic rock?  I have looked at commercial pond liners but they are
>expensive and sometimes gaudy.  I would like information so that I don't
>have to re-invent the wheel.  What resources are availbale to me?  Can
>someone recommend books or catalogs?  Thanks in advance and please feel
>free to send any information you feel helpful to my E-mail or post on this
>thread and I will wait.
>   Peter

Hi - we have an indoor, 400 gallon koi pond in our basement that we made using
plans that Tetra makes available.  Basically, its landscape timbers held together 
with 4 long threaded rods.  The inside of the pond is lined with 1/8 inch plywood
and a plastic liner.   Plastic and rubber pond liners are the best way to go, with
prices usually ranging from 50 cents to a dollar per square foot.  

There are companies that make and sell fake rock, one company that I know of is 
Sequoyah Stone in GA, phone# (800) 513-4012. 

 I haven't heard of anybody 
making their own fake rock.  At least one member of the Mid Atlantic Koi Club 
has had a spectacular indoor pond made by the same people who make 
artificial stone enclosures for zoo's.  I think it was made from sprayed concrete
which is then painted to look like stone.  But, this pond probably cost as much
as a small house! 

 If you are located on the east coast, contact the Mid Atlantic Koi
Club, they have a Koi show at Longwood gardens in PA once per year, that is 
where I saw the fake rocks, at the show's vendor display.   The membership
Committee for the Mid Atlantic Koi Club is Anita & Charles Walker, (703) 590-2207.
Membership is about $24/year, includes a very nice monthly magazine, monthly
meetings in PA, MD, and NY, and several koi shows per year. There is also 
a membership kit that has plans for ponds and filters, etc.  The club has just 
published a book that has consolidated lots of technical articles from past
monthly magazines that is a very good source of info.  Tetra has some good
books too.

Good Luck!

Rich Roemer
Olney MD


From rroemer@access.digex.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:22 EST 1994
Article: 277 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!usenet
From: rroemer@access.digex.net (Rich Roemer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Brick
Date: 30 Dec 1994 15:11:52 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <3e17vo$gge@news1.digex.net>
References: <199412271812.MAA03056@cs.utexas.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dca00508.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.2

In article <199412271812.MAA03056@cs.utexas.edu>, dave@cardinal.com says:
>
>How well does brick hold water?  Could I use brick sides to line a pond,
>rather than cement or the rubber materials?  I would expect less of a
>cracking problem, but wonder how good a seal I could manage to get.

In this part of the country (MD) everybody makes ponds with liners, with 
very good results.  I think you are in Texas, so maybe you don't have
freezing weather, so *maybe* a brick pond would do ok.  But I wouldn't
trust it for fish that you care about, eventualy it would crack and leak.

BTW - we once built a concrete pond, which cracked after several years,
and we put a liner inside it, which solved the leak problem, and also
the ph problems (from the lime in the concrete).

If you put a liner inside, then a brick pond would look good on the 
outside, and be safe inside.  Besides, beneficial algae will grow on
the inside of the pond, and hide the inside brick from view.

Just my humble opinions!  Good Luck.....

Rich Roemer
Olney MD
Mid Atlantic Koi Club member


From xopamondo@shoreline.ca Fri Dec 30 21:01:23 EST 1994
Article: 278 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!cow!pig
From: Xopamondo <xopamondo@shoreline.ca>
Subject: Where are you!?
Sender: news@cow.shoreline.ca
Organization: Shoreline BBS, Vancouver
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 07:22:04 GMT
X-Newsreader: SL2 Usenet UA
Message-ID: <499654@shoreline.ca>
Lines: 18

I was very pleased to see this newsgroups genesis (Yes I even voted for 
it) and I have been enjoying the thoughtful, intelligent discussion and 
tips for us novices.

I have one request of posters to this group:

PLEASE INCULDE WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR MESSAGES

so that we may all take your geography into consideration when we are 
scanning messages looking for discussion relevant to our own areas, etc.

thanks in advance,
Scott

________________________________________________
xopamondo@shoreline.ca - The Truth is Out There 
   Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
________________________________________________


From lralph@dataflux.bc.ca Fri Dec 30 21:01:24 EST 1994
Article: 279 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.DataFlux.BC.CA!lralph.dataflux.bc.ca!lralph
From: lralph@dataflux.bc.ca (len ralph)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Lots of pond questions!
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 12:38:34 UNDEFINED
Organization: Dataflux Systems Ltd.
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <lralph.82.056E28BE@dataflux.bc.ca>
References: <3di9gl$1l6@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lralph.dataflux.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]


>Another question I have often wondered about is about mosquitos.  They
>can be a real problem here in our area as we have some irrigation about.
>I have been told that mosquito eating fish will take care of the problem.
>I have planned to stock the pond with common goldfish.  Do you think
>this would take care of the mosquito problem?

I had a pond crawling with mosquito larva. A few goldfish removed them all 
over one weekend...just the cheap 30 fish for ten bucks variety. Never had 
a problems since.


>  I would like to encourage them to come back and I
>know that they would really help with the mosquito problems... should I
>try to bring some in when the pond is built, or see if nature will 

>naturally take care of the prolem?

I havent been able to get frogs to live in my pond either way..but I havent 
tried real hard.


len ralph
lralph@dataflux.bc.ca



From fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Fri Dec 30 21:01:25 EST 1994
Article: 280 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!fs708
From: fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: hello
Date: 30 Dec 1994 15:50:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <3e1a8f$3pp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby)
NNTP-Posting-Host: eeyore.ins.cwru.edu


Just started reading this group.  Didn't think you were up yet.  It will be
a while until I read all the way through, but wanted to comment on my
situation. 


We purchased 3.2 acres of land with a pond and creek.  Built 2 years ago.
The pond is about 100' by 50', teardrop shaped, 18' deep at the deep end,
and spring fed.  The creek is natural, and used by many in the area as the
collector of the rain run-off.  As a lot of this comes through concrete
pipes, it doesn't flood our property.  But, boy some of those rains can
really get the creek rolling.

They had to move the creek to make this a buildable lot.  The first two
years we owned it, could see lots of evidence of the creek flooding. 
Fortunately, it seems to have cut itself a nice deep channel now.

Stocked our pond about 5 years ago. Last years severe winter was the first
time we lost fish(all our big bass and 2 big blue gill) . But there were
lost of small fish, so hopefully things will come back.

We also have frogs, snails, snappers.  Loose several fish each year to the
Blue Herons.   but I like the birds so I don't mind.

Our biggest problem is muskrats.  They have eroded our pond edge for
several years.  Trap and more come back.  They are threatening the dam area
between the pond and the creek.

Any good suggestions for discouraging their taking up residence?  I know I
cannot keep them away completely.

Debra Roby

p.s. the pond and creek helped a lot when I was certified as a backyard
wildlife refuge.

I really like this group.


From pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 30 21:01:25 EST 1994
Article: 281 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!stntnbry.demon.co.uk!pete
From: pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk (Pete Bradbury)
Subject: Re: Bull frog won't croak!
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: stntnbry.demon.co.uk
Message-ID: <19941230.094410.17@stntnbry.demon.co.uk>
Sender: news@demon.co.uk (Usenet Administration)
Reply-To: pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk
Organization: Stantonbury Campus Internet Gateway
X-Newsreader: Archimedes TTFN Version 0.36
References: <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 09:44:10 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com> swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley) wrote:

  When it's 
> over, my Mom will clean out as many of the tadpole eggs as she can 
> find.  There will be literally hundreds of strands contain who knows how 
> many eggs.

I hope she finds a new site for the eggs/tadpoles she removes.  Even amphibians
have a right to survive.


-- 
Pete Bradbury


From pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 30 21:01:26 EST 1994
Article: 282 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!stntnbry.demon.co.uk!pete
From: pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk (Pete Bradbury)
Subject: Re: Brown water
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: stntnbry.demon.co.uk
Message-ID: <19941230.093827.69@stntnbry.demon.co.uk>
Sender: news@demon.co.uk (Usenet Administration)
Reply-To: pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk
Organization: Stantonbury Campus Internet Gateway
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References: <stormy-2812941723110001@stormy.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 09:38:27 GMT
Lines: 30

In article <stormy-2812941723110001@stormy.earthlink.net> stormy@earthlink.net (Stormy S. Knight) wrote:


> The problem is our water has become clear but brown, like strong tea
> colored. Leaves are  dropping in the water and we are fishing them out
> each day, which is not a problem and we enjoy doing it, but we don't know
> if the water discoloration is a sign that something is wrong or not. We
> don't have an algae problem to speak of and the only other signs that
> something may be wrong is: 1) there is a small amount of foam on the
> surface around the fountain & 2) our turtle, in the last couple of days
> has been tucking his tail to the side of his body. The koi are fine and
> have grown noticebly bigger in a month+.

Sound to me that the leaves are probably the culprits.

Depending on your tree it is probably tannin leaching from the leaves
into the pond water.  The same effect as dropping tea bags into water.
A nice brown clear liquid.

I don't think tannin will have a major effect on the koi, but it 
0would probably be better to net the pond if it is not too large.

I use wide fruit bush netting which is made of fine black polypropylene
to cover my pond.  It keeps out most of the leaves that fall, and
because of its colour is mainly invisible.



-- 
Pete Bradbury


From swhatley@blkbox.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:27 EST 1994
Article: 283 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!blkbox.COM!blkbox!swhatley
From: swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond and related clubs?
Date: 30 Dec 1994 18:42:27 GMT
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3e1kaj$ets@news.blkbox.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blkbox.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I would like to start a list of pond and pond related clubs.  Please email 
suggestions and include the following.

Name:

Brief discription (keywords are sufficient):

Phone #/Fax #/E-mail address:

City and/or region:

I will put the list togther and post the results.  Once the list 
stabilizes, I will post it once a month.

Thanks,
Steven Whatley
swhatley@blkbox.com


From Huh?? Fri Dec 30 21:01:28 EST 1994
Article: 284 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu!user
From: Huh?? (Joe Freenbean)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: City Pond Raccoons
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 10:07:09 -0800
Organization: Fonebone Cement & Mafia Shoe Co.
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <Huh??-3012941007090001@fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu>
References: <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net> <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net> <3dv5q7$i6a@fido.asd.sgi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu

In article <3dv5q7$i6a@fido.asd.sgi.com>, peteo@ford.wpd.sgi.com (Peter
Orelup) wrote:

> In article <trg1.59.0357D3BF@ins.infonet.net>, trg1@ins.infonet.net (Tim
> Prachar) writes:
> |> 
> |> I don't know about your physical restrictions, but I've used electric
> |> fence to 
> |> stop raccoons from getting to a sweet-corn patch.  It may require a
> |> wire 
<snippage>


Try trapping them with a "have-a-heart" trap. Then relocate them. Eggs
work well as bait.

-- 
Joe
*********************************************************

          --------------//
          ----------\   \        Gun Control Is Being Able 
                     \   \              to Hit Your Target
                      \---\



From jeff@isd.tandem.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:28 EST 1994
Article: 285 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!zilker.net!halley!integrity!jeff
From: jeff@isd.tandem.com (Jeff Mcspadden)
Subject: Re: How do you drain a pond?
Message-ID: <1994Dec30.163116.21589@integrity.uucp>
Keywords: 
   What would be wrong with running a siphon hose from the pond to some point down hill.
Sender: jeff@mpd.tandem.com (Jeff Mcspadden)
Organization: Tandem
References: <3dhp1t$j5c@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <3dj81n$it2@news.duke.edu> <3dnaf5$8qi@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <3do5p5$fmp@news.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 16:31:16 GMT
Lines: 5

I have a 2 inch pipe from my pond to my water tank and can drain the pond in about
4 hours if I let the pipe run full.

Jeff McSpadden, Jr.
jeff@isd,tandem.com


From swhatley@blkbox.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:29 EST 1994
Article: 286 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!blkbox.COM!blkbox!swhatley
From: swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Bull frog won't croak!
Date: 30 Dec 1994 18:59:30 GMT
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3e1lai$ets@news.blkbox.com>
References: <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com> <19941230.094410.17@stntnbry.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blkbox.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Pete Bradbury (pete@stntnbry.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com> swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley) wrote:

:   When it's 
: > over, my Mom will clean out as many of the tadpole eggs as she can 
: > find.  There will be literally hundreds of strands contain who knows how 
: > many eggs.

: I hope she finds a new site for the eggs/tadpoles she removes.  Even amphibians
: have a right to survive.

Oh, she does not get rid of all of them.  She loves tadpoles!  She leaves 
enough so that a few dozen frogs do mature and escape.  She just does not 
want the water to be black with them or the fish will sufficate.  In my 
original post, I did not mean to imply that she got rid of all of the eggs.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Happy New Year,
Steven Whatley


From bibbya@govonca.gov.on.ca Fri Dec 30 21:01:30 EST 1994
Article: 287 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!govonca!bibbya
From: bibbya@govonca.gov.on.ca (Allen Bibby)
Subject: Re: hello
Message-ID: <1994Dec30.190001.22930@govonca.gov.on.ca>
Organization: Government of Ontario
References: <3e1a8f$3pp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 19:00:01 GMT
Lines: 23

In <3e1a8f$3pp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby) writes:



>Our biggest problem is muskrats.  They have eroded our pond edge for
>several years.  Trap and more come back.  They are threatening the dam area
>between the pond and the creek.

>Any good suggestions for discouraging their taking up residence?  I know I
>cannot keep them away completely.


I asked an expert and he said you will never get rid of the muskrats as
long as there is food and habitat. Your best solution is to plant native
species of shrubs etc. around the edge of the pond. This will stabilize
the soil and probably make the pond more attractive. You can continue to
trap them to keep the population down but you will never get rid of
them.

FYI - predators of muskrats are minks (35% of the minks diet is
muskrat), racoons (they will dig babys out the nest) occasionally dogs,
foxes, coyotes, snowy owls, great horned owls, man and disease. Only 15%
of muskrats make it to 1 year old.


From sims@linux.acsys.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:31 EST 1994
Article: 288 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ankh.iia.org!babbage.ece.uc.edu!mtv.acsys.com!linux.acsys.com!sims
From: sims@linux.acsys.com (dave sims)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Building big ponds, lakes actually :^)
Date: 30 Dec 1994 20:04:04 GMT
Organization: speaking for myself
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <3e1p3k$s7b@mtv.acsys.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linux.acsys.com

I've got some acreage in Northern New Mexico, and this group has got
me thinking about building a pond there.  There's an arroyo (dry
stream bed) that I'm thinking of damming up.  The elevation is 6800
feet, the area gets 18 inches of rainfall per year, but the area is
largely dry.  However, I have noticed some stock ponds in the area for
watering cattle that are doing fine.  Those ponds are about an acre in
size.

So, here's my question:

I'd like to build a pond about an acre in size.  What do I do when
building a pond that's too big for a liner, concrete, etc?  Do you
just dig a hole, wait for the rain, and see what happens?

Any tips, books, etc would be appreciated.

thanks,
dave


-- 
Dave Sims                     I'm an anarchist, and I vote.
sims@usa.acsys.com            Don't tread on me.
http://www.acsys.com/~sims/   Finger or WWW for PGP key.
KC5JKN


From jwasson@eznet.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:31 EST 1994
Article: 289 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!roch0.eznet.net!dialin-9.eznet.net!user
From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: hello
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 15:45:12 -0400
Organization: One World, One People, One Future
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <jwasson-3012941545120001@dialin-9.eznet.net>
References: <3e1a8f$3pp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-9.eznet.net

In article <3e1a8f$3pp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Debra  Roby) wrote:

> Stocked our pond about 5 years ago. Last years severe winter was the first
> time we lost fish(all our big bass and 2 big blue gill) . But there were
> lost of small fish, so hopefully things will come back.

I was curious, about how much did it cost to stock your pond with the
fish, and what was the process like?

> Any good suggestions for discouraging their taking up residence?  I know I
> cannot keep them away completely.

Do you have any snakes? I believe the corn snake is a natural predator,
and I don't think its poisonous, I'm not sure, so I would check first.
What about owls? Do you have any mature tree's near the pond to attract
them?

> p.s. the pond and creek helped a lot when I was certified as a backyard
> wildlife refuge.

I was interested in doing this also, could you post with more details of
this process? Are you protected from rising property taxes over the years
as the land around you becomes more developed?

Thanks,
Jason Wasson
-- 
jwasson@eznet.net

Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live


From froh@boi.hp.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:32 EST 1994
Article: 290 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!hp-cv!hp-pcd!news1.boi.hp.com!froh
From: froh@boi.hp.com (Bob Frohwerk)
Subject: Re: pond safety issues
Sender: news@boi.hp.com (Boise Site News Server)
Message-ID: <D1n5zo.7zC@boi.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 20:52:35 GMT
References: <3dclm6$o98@news.bu.edu> <3dnc4s$pn0@hpchase.rose.hp.com>
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Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.11]
Lines: 38

My 4-year old pond is 100' by 140', about 3/8-acre, 6' deep; it is filled  
>from  an irrigation ditch during the summer as a reservoir for pressurized 
drip irrigation here in the Idaho desert.  We have convinced ourselves 
that fencing of the pond would be useless, expensive and detrimental to 
the natural appearance of our habitat.  On our 5-acres we are less 
(though still) concerned about wayward toddlers, and more concerned about 
older (say, teen) trespassers who might be injured while partying in our 
absence, after climbing a fence if necessary.  (Today I have no fear of 
anyone falling into our pond, though someone might slip and fall on the 
4-6" thick ice.)

In the manner of fencing, we have two things going.  First, we are trying
to establish masses of low-growing junipers (Pfitzer, Old Gold) near the
water edge as nesting cover for ducks.  As has been mentioned in an earlier
followup, junipers also tend to impede human foot traffic.  Our second
natural fence is prompted by the new subdivision now under development on 
the adjacent property.  We expect that we will have to replace the old 
barb-wire sheep fence with something that isn't so climbable :).  Our intent
is to establish brambles along the 500' property line.  These are likely
to be a mix of pyracantha, and blackberries; all good for birds, some good
for us.

More directly to the safety issue, our solution has been two-fold:
   1) Don't advertise.  We have planted trees and shrubs to try to 
      obscure our pond from view from the road.  
   2) Insure, then don't advertise the amount of your coverage.  
      With the state of litigation being as it is, a trespasser who is 
      injured is likely to have more rights than you as a property owner,
      inspite of your best efforts to restrict access.  Umbrella policies 
      are not too expensive and cover much more than just pond accidents.

This approach seems to work for "rural" ponds, for (sub)urban ones, I would
fence and do all I could to meet local ordinances.  In all cases, I would
pray:  1) that nobody gets injured, and 2) in thanksgiving for the beauty 
that a pond can bring.

==Bob



From starfyr@access3.digex.net Fri Dec 30 21:01:33 EST 1994
Article: 291 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: starfyr@access3.digex.net (J. A. Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Brick
Date: 30 Dec 1994 16:15:05 -0500
Organization: Express Access, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <3e1t8p$2qb@access3.digex.net>
References: <199412271812.MAA03056@cs.utexas.edu> <3e17vo$gge@news1.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access3.digex.net

Real clay brick will absorb & wick water out of the  pond.  If you build a 
pond with brick, the brick must be sealed.  Lilypons and other places have 
sealer, I used a coating of cement as the sealer, and a coat of rubberized-
epoxy pain as well, I still have a slow leak about three inches below the rim.
Either use cast concrete for the entire pond or use a liner.
Newer 'bricks' tend to actually be cement tinted red, but you'd still have 
to be a very good mason to get the joints waterproof.



From jeff@isd.tandem.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:34 EST 1994
Article: 292 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!zilker.net!halley!integrity!jeff
From: jeff@isd.tandem.com (Jeff Mcspadden)
Subject:  How to clean a pond 
Message-ID: <1994Dec30.141758.18193@integrity.uucp>
Keywords: 
   This is my first reading of this news group.  I have a spring fed pond
Sender: jeff@mpd.tandem.com (Jeff Mcspadden)
Organization: Tandem
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 14:17:58 GMT
Lines: 11

that has a lot of leaf/branch/goo/etc in the bottom.  I would like to clean
this out.  The pond is about 75 feet long and 35 feet wide and my estimate
is that is 4 to 5 feet deep when cleaned.  Naturally being cheap, I would like
a reasonable cleaning method.  The only idea I have is a drag line but the cost
of just getting it to my place would be too much if I could find one.  I have a
case 580B backhoe but do not believe that I can get it into that much water.
   
Thanks for any suggestions.

Jeff McSpadden, Jr.
jeff@isd.tandem.com


From donn@u.washington.edu Fri Dec 30 21:01:35 EST 1994
Article: 293 of rec.ponds
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From: donn@u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Bull frog won't croak!
Date: 31 Dec 1994 01:09:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 9
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References: <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer20.u.washington.edu

swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley) writes:
| My parents built a 1500 gallon pond over two years.  About six months 
| after the pond was built. a baby bull frog moved in.  We have no idea 
| where it came from.  Jake will be two years old very soon and its getting 
| pretty big.  The only thing is that it has not made a sound, yet.  Does a 
| bull frog only croak when there are other bull frogs around?  Actually, 
| my dad is glad that Jake is quiet.

May be time to rename Jake, something a little less masculine.


From rroemer@access.digex.net Fri Dec 30 21:06:48 EST 1994
Article: 294 of rec.ponds
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From: rroemer@access.digex.net (Rich Roemer)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
Date: 30 Dec 1994 23:30:57 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <3e257h$qb0@news1.digex.net>
References: <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu> <3e17dt$gge@news1.digex.net>
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> In article <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu>,
pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma) says:

> How do you deal with humidity? I would think a pond that big, would
> generate a lot of humidity. What about in the winter time, if your
> basement is heated I would expect faster evaporation of the pond. Just
> curious if you're seeing these problems. I'm exploring the possibility of
> indoor ponds in green houses.

> Thanks,
> Jason Wasson

We have a very minor problem with humidity in the summer, so we have
a Sears portable de-humidifier that we sometimes use, not a serious 
problem at all..

In the winter, the pond helps keep the air nice, not too dry, the water 
loss from the pond is no problem at all.   We change about 20% of the 
water every 2 to 4 weeks anyway, so adding more water is no problem.
We have about 10 koi in the pond, so water changes are necessary
to keep the water quality up.  10 koi in 400 gallons is a little over-stocked
by some experts criteria.  When the fish get too big, > 12 - 14 inches,
we send them to my parents 12,000 gallon outdoor pond.

We're not the only family in the Mid Atlantic Koi club with an indoor pond,
being close to the koi year round is getting more popular.

At least one other member has their pond in a greenhouse attached
to the back of their house.  They sometimes have the club meeting there.

 BTW.. the MAKC has over 600 families in the membership.

Rich Roemer
rroemer@access.digex.net
Olney, MD


From gaf@iii1.iii.net Fri Dec 30 21:33:55 EST 1994
Article: 295 of rec.ponds
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From: gaf@iii1.iii.net (Gary Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: I have just purchased a home with a beaver dam and pond
Date: 30 Dec 1994 18:31:24 -0500
Organization: intuitive information, inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3e258v$o2e@iii1.iii.net>
References: <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> <3dqmjv$cnh@pentagon.io.com> <3dtil7$djk@news.duke.edu>
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Dean Kanipe (dpk@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
: In article <3dqmjv$cnh@pentagon.io.com>, sj@pentagon.io.com (Steve Jackson) says:
: >
: >In article <3dptc9$pct@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>,
: >Perry M. Hidalgo <perry@astro.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
: >> 
...
: >
: >I suggest that if the beavers are still at work, you get a videocam
: >and a zoom lens, and take the opportunity to do some nature photography.

: For the most part, I think that they are nocturnal.  :-(

They are mostly nocturnal, but during the summer ours cam out in the evening
(around 6pm or so) and could be seen from time to time munching away on the
saplings behind our house.  They will also come out at any time during the
day, if necessary to repair major damage to their dam.

   Gary



From pm2013@mail.bris.ac.uk Sat Dec 31 20:07:56 EST 1994
Article: 296 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!warwick!bsmail!mail!pm2013
From: pm2013@mail.bris.ac.uk (I. Spreadbury)
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Message-ID: <D1nELK.1Hq@info.bris.ac.uk>
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References: <3dmpn1$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu> <9412280252591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 23:58:31 GMT
Lines: 12

John R. Powers, Jr. (jopowers@delphi.com) wrote:

:     One problems I know of with ponds freezing, other than the pond freezing
: solid, is that toxic gases from decaying leaves (if you didn't clean ....

I was wondering if anyone knows exactly what happens to fish once they
have been encased in ice. My mother used to excavate them and give them a
decent burial. Imagine her horror when we heard somewhere that most fish
survive being frozen!  
	Is this true? Did our fish recover to find they'd been buried alive?

Ian


From zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca Sat Dec 31 20:07:56 EST 1994
Article: 297 of rec.ponds
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From: zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca (Lance Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 31 Dec 1994 01:27:34 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Lines: 48
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on Fri, 30 Dec 1994 23:58:31 GMT I. Spreadbury wrote in rec.ponds:
> John R. Powers, Jr. (jopowers@delphi.com) wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone knows exactly what happens to fish once they
> have been encased in ice...
> 	Is this true? Did our fish recover to find they'd been buried alive?

one of the few times i've [intentionally :)] posted and shewn how stupid
i can be.

i had a pond in london (canada) and a pair of 7" goldfish. the pond was a
little over 30" deep and frost level in London is 18".

two separate ponds owned by friends in london had fish that survived
over winter with nothing done to the pond -- kee claimed that the
ice was only 8 inches thick in february they found out the out the
same time they learned that a 10 year old nephew is heavy enough
to break that much ice.

but i digress.

in ottawa (frost level 48") my school chum had 10" goldfish (at what point to
you call them carp?) that froze solid and then swam on in the spring.

these experiences were weighted against 10 year old biology classes that
said "now fish, they aren't the highest on the evolutionary
ladder, are they?" so i figured that my fish should survive.

they didn't. burial was quick and to the point -- and these were
definately dead fish.


what i figure happened: the last london winter was very cold -- however
   not as cold as ottawa.

a pond shop said once "we only sell them after they survived a
winter or two -- some fish just won't." -- and the fish i had (bought
big in a pet store so probably tank bred) might not have been ready
or able to survive the freezing.

so yes, your fish might survive. but there is a good chance they
won't, so cover up the pond with a foot or so of insulating material
like straw, or try to keep some open water on the pond, or take
the fish in.

--
Zaphod
Forgive me Father, I'm only in here to develop film. --Emo Philips


From swhatley@blkbox.com Sat Dec 31 20:07:57 EST 1994
Article: 298 of rec.ponds
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From: swhatley@blkbox.com (Steven Whatley)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Where are you!?
Date: 30 Dec 1994 18:20:05 GMT
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 
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Xopamondo (xopamondo@shoreline.ca) wrote:
: I was very pleased to see this newsgroups genesis (Yes I even voted for 
: it) and I have been enjoying the thoughtful, intelligent discussion and 
: tips for us novices. 

: I have one request of posters to this group:

: PLEASE INCULDE WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR MESSAGES

I agree.  Geography makes a big difference in pond care.  Simply stating
something in the text of the message would be sufficient.  Below is an 
example.  It is not too specific but it is close enough.

Happy New Year!
Steven Whatley

A backyard pond in the upper Texas Gulf Coast region.


From cbb139@herald.usask.ca Sat Dec 31 20:07:58 EST 1994
Article: 299 of rec.ponds
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From: cbb139@herald.usask.ca (Caroline Brenda Victoria Bayda)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Pyronecrobestiality
Date: 31 Dec 1994 05:50:35 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
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NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.usask.ca
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To the guy who likes to piss in ponds: Ever try pitching a loaf in ponds?


From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Sat Dec 31 20:07:58 EST 1994
Article: 300 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hplntx!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon!hpchase.rose.hp.com!pat
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Lots of pond questions!
Date: 30 Dec 1994 20:08:38 GMT
Organization: Roseville Networks Division
Lines: 38
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References: <lralph.82.056E28BE@dataflux.bc.ca>
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len ralph (lralph@dataflux.bc.ca) wrote:

: I had a pond crawling with mosquito larva. A few goldfish removed them all 
: over one weekend...just the cheap 30 fish for ten bucks variety. Never had 
: a problems since.

Our koi and goldfish take care of the larva.  During misquito season, the
pond does attract some adult mosquitos (they are looking for water for their
eggs and the pond qualifies even if their offspring get eaten).  So there
will be a small misquito problem.  The part I like is that the misquitos
and the water also attract dragon flies and I love to watch them swoop 
around.  I've read that the dragon fly larva can be harmful to small
fish (they are around at the same time that the fry are hatching).  I've
seen the dragon flies go through mating behavior over our pond, but I
haven't seen any larva.  I guess that the fish eat most of the eggs and
larva before they can cause problems.  I wouldn't mind loosing some
fry to the dragon flies because I enjoy the watching the adults so 
much.  Fortunately, they seem to find other places to breed successfully.

: >  I would like to encourage them to come back and I
: >know that they would really help with the mosquito problems... should I
: >try to bring some in when the pond is built, or see if nature will 

: >naturally take care of the prolem?

: I havent been able to get frogs to live in my pond either way..but I havent 
: tried real hard.


Frogs showed up immediately (in the spring) when we filled our pond.  We
live half a mile from a river and there are a number of ponds close
by including one right next door.  We like them but boy are they loud
on spring evenings.  These are pretty small.  Maybe a couple inches long
for the biggest I've seen.  It's amazing how loud just one can be and
there must be dozens some nights out there by our front door.

Pat Thaler



From pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com Sat Dec 31 20:07:59 EST 1994
Article: 301 of rec.ponds
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From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Low work pond for chronically fatigued?
Date: 31 Dec 1994 01:36:58 GMT
Organization: Roseville Networks Division
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <3e2cjq$358@hpchase.rose.hp.com>
References: <3duj27$c47@news.blkbox.com>
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Steven Whatley (swhatley@blkbox.com) wrote:
: Carie Nixon (carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: : In article <3dse3i$h1u@canopus.sim.es.com>, krogers@canopus.sim.es.com
: : (Keith Rogers) wrote:
: : > So I'd like an honest appraisal as to whether such a pond is out of
: : > the question for me or not.  The key phrase is "low work".  I'd rather
: : > not have one if it really requires me to spend more time at it than I
: : > have energy for.  On the other hand, I'd have lots of time to observe
: : > one during my "off" days.
: : > 

: You will need help to build it though.  That is a lot of work.  Once it is
: built, you would be able to do most of the maintenance yourself.  The 
: hardest task is to partually replace the water about twice a year and 
: cleaning the filter.  I am sure that someone would be happy to help you 
: with that.

A lot can be done in pond construction to make it easier to maintain.
For instance, my pond has an overflow pipe that removes excess water.
When it needs a water change, I put a hose over the edge with a
metering valve on it (that is, a hose attachment that I bought at
a garden store where you can set how many gallons you want.  When
that much has flowed through, it shuts off).  The new water coming
in pushes out the old.  I find that the fish are not bothered by the
chlorine if I do a 20% water change without aging the water.  So
a water change is almost no work.

There are some types of filters that can be backflushed by opening and
closing a few valves.  This should reduce the amount of labor to 
clean the filter.  My inground gravel filter needs to at least be
vacuumed once a month (less in winter) and that job might be a 
problem for Keith.  A filter that can be cleaned by backflushing
(I've seen them advertised in Koi USA and articles I've read are
very positive about them) would be a good idea.

Keeping fish load low can reduce the maintenance, though come spring
the fish will do their part to raise the fish load.

Pat


From jwasson@eznet.net Sat Dec 31 20:08:00 EST 1994
Article: 302 of rec.ponds
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From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 15:29:42 -0400
Organization: One World, One People, One Future
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <jwasson-3012941529420001@dialin-9.eznet.net>
References: <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu> <3e17dt$gge@news1.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-9.eznet.net

In article <3e17dt$gge@news1.digex.net>, rroemer@access.digex.net (Rich
Roemer) wrote:

> In article <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu>,
pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma) says:

> Hi - we have an indoor, 400 gallon koi pond in our basement that we made using
> plans that Tetra makes available.  Basically, its landscape timbers held
together 
> with 4 long threaded rods.  The inside of the pond is lined with 1/8
inch plywood
> and a plastic liner.   Plastic and rubber pond liners are the best way
to go, with
> prices usually ranging from 50 cents to a dollar per square foot.  

How do you deal with humidity? I would think a pond that big, would
generate a lot of humidity. What about in the winter time, if your
basement is heated I would expect faster evaporation of the pond. Just
curious if you're seeing these problems. I'm exploring the possibility of
indoor ponds in green houses.

Thanks,
Jason Wasson
-- 
jwasson@eznet.net

Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live


From jwasson@eznet.net Sat Dec 31 20:08:01 EST 1994
Article: 303 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!roch0.eznet.net!dialin-4.eznet.net!user
From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Building big ponds, lakes actually :^)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 22:08:36 -0400
Organization: One World, One People, One Future
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <jwasson-3012942208360001@dialin-4.eznet.net>
References: <3e1p3k$s7b@mtv.acsys.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-4.eznet.net

In article <3e1p3k$s7b@mtv.acsys.com>, sims@linux.acsys.com (dave sims) wrote: 
> I'd like to build a pond about an acre in size.  What do I do when
> building a pond that's too big for a liner, concrete, etc?  Do you
> just dig a hole, wait for the rain, and see what happens?
> 
> Any tips, books, etc would be appreciated.

I used to live in Las Cruces, and I remember there being a lot of clay. So
why not dig until you hit clay, if your bottom is lined with clay then I
would think that would hold enough water in. I would then try to plant
trees around the border to help retain the water in dry spells. I would
also wonder about what impact such a large pond would have on the water
table. For instance what if your pond raised the water table to the point
where it exposed the aquafier to above ground pollutants?

-Jason Wasson
-- 
jwasson@eznet.net

Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live


From jfeinstein@umassd.edu Sat Dec 31 20:08:01 EST 1994
Article: 304 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell.uml.edu!umassd.edu!mdcs.umassd.edu!JFEINSTEIN
From: jfeinstein@umassd.edu (Jonathan E. Feinstein)
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Message-ID: <D1nMKs.JCD@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: jfeinstein@umassd.edu
Organization: UMass Dartmouth, N. Dartmouth, MA.
References: <3dmpn1$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu>,<9412280252591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 02:50:51 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <9412280252591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>, jopowers@delphi.com (John R. Powers, Jr.) writes:
> 
>>: > I'm curious as to how many other people are maintaining their ponds in
>the
>>  
>>: > winter.  Mostly, I'm curious about small ponds (mine is 800gal)    
>
>    One problems I know of with ponds freezing, other than the pond freezing
>solid, is that toxic gases from decaying leaves (if you didn't clean well
>enough) and respiring fish get trapped beneath the pond.  By keeping a small
>part of the pond open, the gases will be allowed to dissipate.  
>    I also was told that by using a pump or air stone thruout the winter,
>ice crystals could form in the water and be blown by current down into the
>gills of the fish.  I do not know if this is true, but it makes sense to
>me.

    Anything is possible, I suppose, although I think the ice crystals, being
more boyant than water, are more likely to float on the surface unless you have 
a very strong pump. One set up simply as a bubbler shouldn't be a problem.
Case in point, I've had one pond or another for five winters now and have yet 
to lose a fish during the winter with my pump set to keep the surface broken.

    Jon.
			---------------------
   			JFeinstein@umassd.edu
        		---------------------

		Immortality is something you need to grow into.


From donb442533@aol.com Sat Dec 31 20:08:02 EST 1994
Article: 305 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: donb442533@aol.com (DonB442533)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Bull frog won't croak!
Date: 31 Dec 1994 08:17:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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References: <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com>
Reply-To: donb442533@aol.com (DonB442533)

Methinks you have a little Jakette and not a Jake.  Sounds like you have a
female bullfrog.


From you@somehost.somedomain Sat Dec 31 20:08:03 EST 1994
Article: 306 of rec.ponds
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From: you@somehost.somedomain (Peter)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Frogs
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 94 11:28:46 PST
Organization: Your Organization
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We are in Connecticut and have a 5,000 sq.ft (at least 6' at its deepest) 
pond in our backyard. We have been here for 15 yrs.

In the last 2-3 years we have watched the frog (bull frogs) population 
dwindle to almost none. 

In addition to the frogs we also have at least one big turtle (12" dia.); a 
bunch of large gold fish (20-40); some water snakes, one of which is close 
to 5' long.

We really enjoyed the bull frogs and their nightly serenade.

Does anyone know why the frogs are disappearing? Does anyone have a 
solution? 

I suspect that the snakes may be the cause of the problem, so my next 
question is: How do I get rid of the snakes?

Thanks and Happy New Year!



From Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org Sat Dec 31 20:08:04 EST 1994
Article: 307 of rec.ponds
From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!armon!jina!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Water garden Supply FAQ
Message-ID: <788895939.AA03752@jina.rain.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 07:46:40 -0800
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Hello All!

     This is a listing of some major water garden supply mail order
businesses.  As this list was generated in the U.S., most are from
here, but other countries are included as well.  Please note that
it is difficult to ship live plants across international borders.
If you are a mail order water garden supply business, and you would
like to be included in this listing, send me your catalog and I
will include you in the next update.

     If you are a water garden supply user, and you know of a mail
order water garden supply business, send me some information on it
and I will check it out.

     This listing is current as of Dec. 29, 1993 and is version
Number 1.3.   This list is maintained by The Garden Pond BBS in
Portland Oregon 1-(503)-735-3074.  Fido address 1:105/52.

_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
                    U.S.A.

               Aquatics & Exotics
        Dona Kiehl
               P.O. Box 693
        Indian Rocks Beach, FL 34635
        Notes:  Lower prices than the "big boys", price list
               available; ask for limited time offer of free Nymphaea
               Zenkeri (tropical, white, night, bloomer) seeds. Member
        of the International Water Lily Society.


        Bee Fork Water Gardens
               P.O. Box 440037
               Brentwood, MO 63144-0437
               (314) 781-1004 FAX
               (314) 962-1583 Answering Service
               Notes:  Out in the boondocks so you may not be able
               to call them.  Low prices, small, free, catalogue.



               KingKoi International
               5879 Avis Lane
               Harrisburg, PA 17112
               Notes:  No additional information available.



               Lilyponds Water Gardens
               6800 Lilyponds Rd.
               P.O. Box 10
               Buckeystown, Maryland 21717-0010
               (800) 999-5459 Orders
               (800) 879-5459 FAX
               (301) 428-0686 local voice number
               Notes:  If you are new to water gardening, or if you
               don't want to shop around, then get this catalog.
               Lilyponds is a major player in water lilies and
               ponds.  They also have a Texas branch at (800)-
               765-5459 and a Calif branch at (800)-365-5459.
               Catalog, $5.00


               Mcallister Water Gardens
               7420 St. Helena Highway
               Yountville, Calif. 94599
               Notes:  No additional information available.


               Paradise Water Gardens
               14 May St.
               Whitman, Mass. 02382
               (617) 447-4711
               (617) 447-8595
               (617) 447-4591 FAX
               Notes:  When I was traveling to Boston, I found it
               was only a short drive to Paradise Water Gardens
               where I was greeted by friendly, knowledgeable
               folks.  Catalog free.



               Ponderings Plus
               Vanca Lumsden
               625 Gibbon Rd.
               Central Point, OR 97502
               (503) 826-6181
               Notes:  A price list or catalog may not be
               available, but if one is looking for an obscure
               water lily or water plant, this may be the place to
               look.  Ms. Lumsden is a frequent aquatic lecturer in
               the Pacific Northwest.

               The Pond Doctor
               HCR 65, BOX 265
               Kingston, AR 72742
               (501) 665-2232 (Eves)
               Notes:  A life member of The International Water
               Lily Society, The Pond Doctor has filters, Koi,
               books, bog plants and other pond supplies.  A small,
               free catalog.



               Scherer & Sons
               104 Waterside Rd.
               Northport, NY 11768
               (516) 261-7432
               Notes:  Small free catalog, but full of the major
               supplies for the water gardener.  They claim to be
               the largest growers of aquatic plants in the USA.


               Serenity Ponds and Streams
               4488 Candleberry Ave.
               Seal Beach, Calif. 90740
               Notes:  No additional information available.


               Slocum Water Gardens
               1101 Cypress Garden Blvd.
               Winter Haven, Florida 33880-6099
               (813) 293-7151
               Notes: The place to go for Lotus.  Good catalog
               ($3.00), fair prices.



               Superior Tropical Trading Co.
               121 West Avenue
               Hicksville, New York 11801
               Notes:  No additional information available


               Van Ness Water Gardens
               2460 N. Euclid Ave.
               Upland , Calif. 91786-1199
               (714) 982-2454 Orders
               (714) 949-7217 FAX
               Notes:  When in the L.A. area of Calif., do try to
               stop by to see the many ponds.  Prices are a bit
               high (catalog $6.00), but they do have what you
               need.



               Wateford Gardens
               74 East Allendale Rd.
               Saddle River, N.J. 07458
               (201)-327-0721
               (201)-327-0684 FAX
               Notes:  full featured (they
               even have Topiary animals!), Catalog, $5.00.  They
               have the best catalog covers every year......



               The Water Works
               111 E. Fairmount Street
               Coopersburg, Pa. 18036
               (215) 282-4784
               Notes:  Small catalog, but friendly people, many
               plants.  Catalog $2.00


               Wickleins Water Garden
               1820 Cromwell Bridge Rd.
               Baltimore, Md. 21234
               (301) 823-1335
               Notes:  Small catalog with plants, pumps, filters,
               liners and everything one may need for a water
               garden.  Near Baltimore. Catalog $2.00



               William Tricker Inc.
               7125 Tanglewood Dr.
               Independence, Ohio 44131
               (216) 524-3491
               (216) 524-6688
               Notes: This is the only water garden mail order
               place I had trouble with.  Maybe they have changed
               there ways, but order with caution.  Low prices,
               many bog plants, Catalog free.


_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
                      U.K.


               Stapeley Water Gardens
               Stapeley, Nantwich
               Cheshire, CW5 7LH
               (44) 0270-628111 Mail order
               (44) 0270-628757 24 hour order service
               (44) 0270-624919 FAX
               Notes: One of the largest water garden supply houses
               in the U.K.  They will ship to the U.S. but
               "Carriage" will be extra.  Good catalog.



               Wildwoods Water Gardens
               Theobalds Park Rd.
               Enfield Middlesex EN2 9BW
               (44) 01-366-0243
               Notes:  They may not ship to the U.S. but for the
               UK, this is a catalog to get.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
                       Canada


               Moore Water Gardens
               Port Stanley, Ontario
                   NOL 2AO
                    Canada
              (519) 782-4052
              Notes:  Water Gardeners in the USA may want to work
              with a US water garden supply house as customs can be
              a problem for live plants.  They do have pumps,
              filters, books and other supplies which can ship
              across the border.  Free catalog.



               A Fleur D'Eau
        6 Route 237, CP 118
               Stanbridge East, Quebec
               JOJ 2HO, Canada
        (514) 248-7008 Voice
               (514) 248-4623 FAX
               Notes:  No additional information available


               Riemer Waterscapes
               RR#3 Box 34
               Tillsonburg, Ontario
               N4G 4H3, Canada
               (519) 842-6049
               Notes: No additional information available


                      France


               Establishments Latour Marliac
               31 Allees De Tourny
               Bordeaux
               France
               Notes:  No additional informational available.


               R. Bezancon
               15 Avenue Du Raincy
               94 Saint Maur
               France
               Notes:  No additional information available.


                         Italy


               Giardini Di Marignolle
               Via Di Marignolle, 69
               50124. Firenze, Italy
               Notes:  No additional information available.




                         Republic of Singapore


  Oriental Aquariums PTE LTD
  Eu It Hai
  652 Lim Chu Kang Road
   Singapore 2471
  Republic of Singapore
  6566-90506 Voice
  6566-90406 FAX
                Notes: No additional information available



   New Zealand


               Lilyponds
               Murray L. Williams
               Eskdale RD2
               Napie,
               New Zealand
               Notes:  No additional information available.

Jack



From Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org Sat Dec 31 20:08:05 EST 1994
Article: 308 of rec.ponds
From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!armon!jina!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond Bibliography FAQ 1of2
Message-ID: <788895939.AA03753@jina.rain.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 07:48:54 -0800
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Lines: 333

Hello All!


     The following is a excerpt from the publication "Bibliography
for Aquatic Gardeners" published by The Aquatic Gardeners
Association, C/O Dorothy Reimer, 83 Cathcart St., London, Ontario,
Canada N6C 3L9 and is reproduced with permission.  The original
bibliography is divided into three sections: 1) Books on Aquatic
Plants 2) Ponds and Water Gardens, and 3) Algae and Seaweeds.

     Only the section on Ponds and Water Gardens is reproduced
here.  This list is available from The Garden Pond BBS, 1-(503)
735-3074. The E-mail address for The 'Pond is Fido: 1:105/52 and
Internet: jack.honeycutt@f52,n105.z1.fidonet.org).  If you
reproduce this list, please do not remove above information from
The Aquatic Gardeners Association.  This list is current as of Dec
31, 1992.

                BOOKS ON PONDS AND WATER GARDENS

Allison, James, c1991
     WATER IN THE GARDEN
     Little, Brown, Boston
     ( ) 160pp.

Angel, Heather & Pat Wolseley, 1982
     THE WATER NATURALIST
     Facts On Life, Inc., New York
     (H) dj 192pp.

AQUARIUM AND POND HANDBOOK, c1955
     Spratt's Patent, Ltd., n/d
     (S) 76pp.
     Caperns. Ltd., London
     1st edition: April, 1955
     2nd edition: January, 1960
     3rd edition: April, 1963 (S) 72pp.

Ash, Edward C., (?1913/1914)
     POND LIFE
     T. C. & E. C. Jack, Dodge Publ. Co., Edinburgh, New York
     (H) 95pp.

Aslet, Ken et. al, 1985
     WATER GARDENS
     Cassell, London (Royal Horticultural Society)
     ( ) 62pp.

Axelrod Herbert R.
     A BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO GARDEN POOLS, 1986
     T. F. H. Publications, Inc., Neptune City, N. J.
     (H) 60pp.
     A COMPLETE INTRODUCTION TO KOI AND GARDEN POOLS, 1986
     T. F. H. Publications, Inc., Neptune City, N. J.
     ( ) 125pp.

Bayliss, Clara Kern 1897
     IN BROOK AND BAYOU

     ( )   pp.

Betts, Leonard C.,
     FIRST STEPS IN POND-KEEPING, 1937
     Marshall Press, London; Waterlife Series No. 5
     1st edition:  1937 ( ) pp
     GARDEN PONDS, 1947
     Marshall Press, London; Waterlife Series No. 5
     Rev. edition: 1947
     2nd edition: 1948
     3rd edition: 1962 (S) 37pp.



Boarder, Arthur, 1967 (Rev. edition: 1982)
     GARDEN PONDS

     1st edition: 1967 ( )   pp.
     2nd edition: 1969
     3rd edition: 1970
     4th edition: 1971 W. G. Foyle, Ltd., London (H) 93pp.
     Rev edition: 1982

Bisset, Peter, 1916 (Rev. edition: 1924)
     THE BOOK OF WATER GARDENING
     A. T. La Mare Co., Inc., New York
     1st edition: 1916 ( ) 200pp.
     2nd Rev. edition: 1924 (H) 205pp.
     3rd edition: 1929 (H) 205pp.

Brown, T., 1947
     A SIMPLE POND FOR THE AMATEUR
     Aquarist & Pondkeeper Booklet
     ( )    pp.

BUILDING A POND, 1973
     Washington, D. C. Printing Office, U. S. Soil Conservation
     Office
     ( ) 13pp.

Burton, R., 1977
     PONDS, THEIR WILDLIFE AND UPKEEP
     ( ) 142pp. (40 photos & figs.)

Butler, Edward Alfred, 1886
     POND LIFE
     Sonnenschein, London
     ( ) 127pp. (1 plate)
     Later edition:

Clark, David E. (editor), 1986 (1972)
     GARDEN POOLS, FOUNTAINS & WATER FALLS
     Sunset Book, Lane Books, Menlo Park, California
     1st edition: 1965
     14th edition: 1972 (S) 80pp.

Clegg, John
     FRESHWATER LIFE OF THE BRITISH ISLES
     Frederick Warne & Co., Ltd.
     1st edition: ( )   pp. (16 color plates)
     3rd edition: 1965 ( )   pp.
     AQUATIC INSECTS, 1938
     Marshall Press, London; Waterlife Series No. 6
     1st edition: 1938 ( )   pp.
     2nd edition:
     INSECTS OF POND AND STREAM, 1948
     School Aid Dept., Daily Mail, London
     ( )   pp.
Clegg, John
     POND AND STREAM LIFE, 1950
     Marshall Press, London; Waterlife Series No. 10
     1st edition: 1950 ( )   pp.

Cooke, M. C., 1880
     PONDS AND DITCHES: NATURAL HISTORY RAMBLES
     Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, London
     1880 edition:
     1892 edition:
     1897 edition: (H) 254pp.

Cotton, W. Harold, 1935
     AQUARIA AND GARDEN PONDS
     A. & C. Black Ltd.
     (H) 90pp.

Creevey, Caroline, 1897
     FLOWERS OF FIELD, HILL AND SWAMP

     (H) 564po.

Denys, Ian & Anthony Harmon, 1950/51
     FISH PONDS AND AQUARIUMS

     ( )   pp.

Derham, Arthur, 193 ?
     AQUARIUM AND POND PLANTS
     Marshalls, Harlow, Essex
     ( )   pp.

DITCHFIELD'S LITTLE WONDER BOOKS, n/d (1946-1949)
     No. 3: GARDEN POND CONSTRUCTION
     No. 4: STOCKING THE GARDEN POND
     Ditchfield British Books, Ltd., Leyland, Lancs., England

Dripper, F. et. al., 1985
     FIELD GUIDE TO THE WATERLIFE OF BRITAIN
     Reader's Digest Field Guide
     ( ) 336pp.

Dutta, Reginald, 1977
     WATER GARDENING INDOORS AND OUT
     B. T. Batsford, London
     (H) 128pp.

Ellis, E. H., 1948
     POND LIFE
     School Aid Dept., Daily Mail, London
     ( )   pp.




Fletcher, H. L. V., 1951
     THE WATER GARDEN
     John Lehmann, London
     (H) dj 190pp.

Ford, R. L. E., 1951
     POND LIFE
     Adam & Charles Black, London
     ( )   pp.

Gorvett, Jean, 1970 (Juvenile)
     LIFE IN PONDS
     American Heritage Press, New York
     (H) dj 31pp.

Hall, C. A., 193 ?
     POND LIFE
     Black
     ( )   pp.

Harmon, Ian,
     THE GARDEN FISH POND, ?1935/36
     Marshall Press, Ltd., London
     ( )   pp.
     FISHPONDS AND AQUARIUMS,1950
     Sedwick & Jackson, Ltd., London
     (H) dj 128pp.
     2nd Imp. 1950
     3rd Imp. April, 1951

Haufman, Deborah T., 1990?
     AQUACULTURE IN PONDS
     Natural Agriculture Library, Beltsville, MD
     ( ) 7pp.

Hems, Jack, 1975
     YOUR GARDEN POND
     Colourmaster International, Huntingdon
     ( ) 32pp.

Heritage, Bill, 1985
     PONDS AND WATER GARDENS
     Blandford Press, Poole, Dorset
     (S) 168pp.

Hervey, George F. & Jack Hems, 1958 (Rev. edition 1970)
     THE BOOK OF THE WATER POND
     Stanley Paul & Co., Ltd., London
     (H) dj 192pp.
     Rev. edition: 1970 ( ) 211pp. Farber & Farber






Hodge, Albert Ernest, 1933
     GARDEN PONDS AND POOLS
     H. F. & G. Witherby, Ltd., London
     1st edition: 1933 ( )   pp.
     2nd edition: 1939 (H) 129 pp.

Innes, William Thornton, 1947
     GOLDFISH VARIETIES AND WATER GARDENS
     Innes Publ. Co., Philadelphia, PA.
     1st edition: 1947 (H) 382pp.
     2nd edition: 1949 (H) 385pp.
     3rd edition: 1949

Janus, Horst, 1963 (1966)
     POND LIFE IN THE AQUARIUM
     D. van Nostrand Co., Inc., Princeton, N. J. & New York
     (S) 64pp.
     (Orig: 1963, Franckh'sche Verlagshandlung,
     W. Keller & Co., Stuttgart)

Jekyll, Gertrude, 1901
     WALL AND WATER GARDENS
     Coventry Lofe, Ltd., London
     Chas. Scribner's Sons, New York
     1st edition: March, 1901
     2nd edition: December, 1901
     3rd edition: July, 1906
     4th edition: June, 1910
     5th edition: January, 1920
     6th edition:
     7th edition: April, 1928 (H) 214pp.
     8th Rev. edition: 1982 WALL, WATER & WOODLAND GARDENS,
     Woodbridge, Suffolk (H) 478pp.
     Rev. edition: 1983, Ayers Co., Salem, N.H., XXV & 177pp.

Knapp, G. R., 1962
     POND LIFE
     Wheaton of Exeter
     ( ) 72pp.

Kramer, Jack, 1971
     WATER GARDENING: Pools, Fountains and Plants
     Chas, Schribner's Sons, New York
     (H) dj 120pp.

Ledbetter, Gordon T.
     WATER GARDENS, 1979
     Sherborne, Alphabooks, Presin Press
     ( ) 152pp.
     THE BETTER WATER GARDEN BOOK OF PATIO PONDS, c1982
     Sherborne, Alphabooks, Dorset
     ( )   pp.

Lebetter, Gordon T.
     THE BOOK OF PATIOS AND PONDS, 1984
     Sherborne, Dorset
     Rev. edition: 1984 ( ) 128pp.

Lodge, R. B., 193 .
     THE HEDGEROW AND POND

     ( )   pp.

Lubell, Winifred & Cecil, 1975 (Juvenile)
     EXPLORING A BROOK
     Parent's Magazine Press, New York
     (H) 64pp.

Macan, T. T., 1973
     PONDS AND LAKES
     George Allen & Unwin, London
     ( )   pp.

Macan, T. T. & E. B. Worthington, 1951
     LIFE IN LAKES AND RIVERS
     New Naturalist Series, Collins, London
     (S)   pp.

Mannering, Rosslyn
     FISHPONDS AND AQUARIA
     Cassell, London
     ( ) 109pp. (13 photos)

Masters, Charles Otto, 1968
     PONDLIFE
     T. F. H. Publications, Inc., Nepute City, N. J.
     (S) 80pp.

McHoy, Peter, 1986
     WATER GARDENING
     Blandford Press, Poole, New York, Sydney
     (H) 128pp.

Jack



From Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org Sat Dec 31 20:08:06 EST 1994
Article: 309 of rec.ponds
From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!armon!jina!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Pond Bibliography FAQ 2of2
Message-ID: <788895939.AA03754@jina.rain.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 07:49:58 -0800
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Lines: 275

Miller, Mary Rogers, 1902
     THE BROOK BOOK
     Doubleday, Doran & Co., Inc., Garden City, New York
     1902 edition: (H) 241pp.
     1924 edition:
     1929 edition: (H) 241pp.

Morgan, Ann Haven, 1930
     FIELD BOOK OF PONDS AND STREAMS
     G. P. Putnam's Sons, New York, London

     5th Imp: 1930 (H) dj 448pp.


North, Roger, 1773
     A DISCOURSE OF FISH AND FISH-PONDS
     (H) 88pp.

Orme, Frank W., 1981
     CYCLOPAEDIA OF COLDWATER FISH AND POND LIFE
     Saiga Publ. Co.
     ( )   pp.
     1983 edition:

Papworth, David
     GARDEN PONDS
     Salamander Books, Ltd.
     ( )   pp.

Perry, Frances
     WATER GARDENING, 1938 (Rev. edition 1947)
     Country Life, Ltd., London
     Chas. Scribner's Sons, New York
     1st edition: 1938 (H) 353pp.
     2nd Rev. edition: 1947 (H) 338pp.
     3rd Rev. edition: 1961/62 Harmondsworth (H) 338pp.
     THE GARDEN POOL, 1951
     W. H. & L. Collingridge, Ltd., London
     Transatlantic Arts, Inc., New York
     1st edition: 1951 (H) 128pp.
     THE WATER GARDEN, 1981
     Van Nostrand & Reinhold Co., New York
     Ward Lock, Ltd., London
     (H) dj 176pp.

Plowden, Lady Molly Brearley & Asa Briggs
     THE WORLD OF LIFE IN FRESH WATER
     B. P. G. Publ., Ltd., England
     (H) dj 59pp.

Pott, E., 1980
     RIVERS AND LAKES
     Chatto & Windus, London
     ( )   pp.

Prud'homme Van Reine, W. J., 1957
     PLANTS AND ANIMALS OF POND AND STREAM
     John Murray, London
     (H) dj 169pp
     (orig: Dutch)

Ramsey, Leonidas W. & Charles H. Lawrence, 1931
     GARDEN POOLS LARGE AND SMALL
     Macmillan Co., New York
     (H) 108pp.



Reid, George K., 1967
     POND LIFE
     Golden Press, New York
     (S) 160 pp.

Reynolds, Christopher, 1969
     THE POND ON MY WINDOWSILL
     Pantheon Books
     (H) dj 194 pp.

Richardson, Ernest
     THE BOG GARDEN, 1938
     Marshall Press, Ltd., London; Waterlife Series No. 7
     1938 edition: ( )
     MARSH GARDENS, 1950
     Rev. edition: 1950 ( )   pp.

Robinson, Brian, 1985
     BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO GARDEN PONDS
     Howell Book House, Inc., New York
     (H) 52pp.

Robinson, Peter, 1988/90
     POOL AND WATERSIDE GARDENS
     Royal Botanic Gardens with Timber Press
     (H) dj 124pp.

Sanders T. W., 1922
     ROCK GARDENS AND ALPINE PLANTS:  Including Water, Bog, Wall
     and Moraine Gardens

     ( )   pp.

Sawyer, Robert V. & Edwin H. Perkins, 1928
     WATER GARDENS AND GOLDFISH
     A. T. De La Mare Co., Inc., New York
     1928 edition: (H) 112pp.
     1934 Rev. edition: (H) xi & 259pp

Sherren, Henry, 1894
     PONDS AND ROCK POOLS
     R. T. S., London
     ( ) 208pp. (1 plate, test figs.)
     1900 edition: ( ) 208pp. Also: edition 1906, 1909

Shewell-Cooper, W. E., c1938
     THE GARDEN POOL
     Epworth Press
     ( )   pp.
     THE A. B. C. OF THE ROCK GARDEN AND POOL, 1949
     Hodder & Stoughton, Ltd.
     1st edition: 1949
     2nd Imp. 1951
     2nd edition: 1956
     2nd Imp. 1959
     3rd Imp. 1962 (H) dj 207pp. English Univ. Press Ltd., London

Sims, Robert G., 1987
     PLANNING YOUR ORNAMENTAL FISH POND
     Vantage Press
     ( ) 73pp.

Slack, Henry James, 1861
     MARVELS OF POND-LIFE
     Groombridge & Sons, London
     1st edition: 1861 (H) xix & 197pp. (7 color plates)
     2nd edition: 1871
     3rd edition: 1878
     4th edition: 1880
                  1889
                  1891

Stark, Frances B. & C. B. Link, 1969
     ROCK GARDENS AND WATER PLANTS IN COLOR
     ( ) 16pp.

Stetson, Paul, 1963
     GARDEN POOLS
     T. F. H. Publications, Inc., Jersey City, N. J.
     (S) 64pp.

Swindells, Philip
     A GUIDE TO WATER GARDENING, 1975

     ( )   pp.
     THE OVERLOOK WATER GARDENER'S HANDBOOK

     ( ) 172pp.
     AT THE WATERSEDGE, 1991
     Ward Lock, New York
     ( ) 128pp.

Thomas, Charles B., 1988
     WATER GARDENS FOR PLANTS AND FISH
     T. F. H. Publications, Inc., Neptune City, N. J.
     (H) 192pp.

Thomas, George Leicaster, Jr., 1958 (1965)
     GARDEN POOLS, WATER-LILIES AND GOLDFISH, 1958
     D. Van Nostrand, Princeton, N. J.
     (H) 222pp.
     GOLDFISH POOLS, WATER-LILIES AND TROPICAL FISHES, 1965
     T. F. H. Publications, Inc., Jersey City, N. J.
     (H) 336pp.

Trebble, N., 1976
     WATERWAYS AND WETLANDS
     British Trust for Conservation Volunteers, London
     ( )   pp.

Trew, Cecil G., 1952
     A POND IN YOUR GARDEN
     Seeley Service & Co., Ltd., London
     (H) 63pp.

Tricker, William E.
     THE WATER GARDEN, 1897
     AT De La Mare Printing & Publishing Co., Ltd., New York
     (H) 120pp.
     MAKING A WATER GARDEN, c1913

     ( )   pp.

Ursin, Michael J.
     LIFE IN AND AROUND THE SALT MARSHES, 1972
     Thomas Y. Crowell, Co., New York
     (H) dj 110pp.
     LIFE IN AND AROUND FRESHWATER WETLANDS, 1975
     Thomas Y. Crowell, Co, New York
     (H) dj 116 pp.

Viosa, Percy, Jr., 1937
     PONDFISH CULTURE
     Pelican Publ. Co., New Orleans, LA.
     (H) 260pp.

Wachter, Karl Van, 1977   (German)
     DER WASSERGARTEN
     Stuttgart
     ( )   pp.

Wainwright, Neil, 1969
     COLDWATER AQUARIUMS & SIMPLE OUTDOOR POOLS
     Frederick Warne & Co., Ltd., London, New York
     1st edition: 1969 (H) 81pp.
     1972 edition:
     1976 edition:

Watson, T. Austin
     AQUARIUM & POND MANAGEMENT FOR BEGINNERS, c192 ?
     Marshall Press, Ltd., Strand, London
     1st edition:
     2nd edition:
     3rd edition: Bird Fancy & Aquaria News
     FISH PONDS AND HOME AQUARIUMS, c1936
     W. H. L. Collingridge, Ltd., London
     1st edition: 1936 (H) 127pp. (18 plates)
     1948 edition:
     1950 Rev. edition: ( ) 128pp.
     1952 edition: 4th Imp. ( ) 128pp.


Wells, Albert Laurence
     AQUARIUMS AND FISH PONDS, 1936
     Frederick Warne & Co., Ltd., London, New York
     (H) 64pp.
     1941 edition:
     GARDEN PONDS, FISH AND FOUNTAINS, 1949 (Rev. edition: 1959)
     Frederick Warne & Co., Ltd., London, New York
     1949 edition: ( ) 157pp.
     1959 Rev. edtion: (H) dj 192pp.

Westell, W.; 'Percival & Kate Harvey, 1936 (Juvinile)
     LOOK AND FIND OUT; BOOK 4, POND LIFE
     McMillan & Co., Ltd., London
     1st edition: 1936
     Rept. 1944
     Rept. 1946 (H) 176pp.

Whitton, B. A., 1979
     LAKES AND MARSHES
     Hodder & Stoughton, London
     ( )   pp.

Wieser, K. H. & Paul V. Loiselle, 1986
     YOUR GARDEN POND
     Tetra Press
     (H) 136pp.
     2nd edition: 1987 (H) 138pp.

Wood, John George, 1889
     THE BROOK AND ITS BANKS
     R. T. S., London
     ( )   pp.











Jack



From rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu Sat Dec 31 20:08:07 EST 1994
Article: 310 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!occ!ndlc.occ.uky.edu!rhodesj
From: rhodesj@ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Jerry Rhodes)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 31 Dec 1994 18:55:47 GMT
Organization: The NDLC's Internet Gateway
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3e49fj$2jt@sparc.occ.uky.edu>
References: <3dmpn1$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu> <9412280252591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ndlc.occ.uky.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


My pond freezes over every winter and I have experienced no problems with 
the fish surviving when spring rolls around.  They are eager to have 
breakfact.

Jerry Rhodes



From zoega@inet.uni-c.dk Sun Jan  1 11:24:59 EST 1995
Article: 311 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!hookup!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.uni-c.dk!inet!zoega
From: zoega@inet.uni-c.dk (Christian Zoega Jessen)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 1 Jan 1995 01:38:39 GMT
Organization: News Server at UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3e512v$cb@news.uni-c.dk>
References: <3dmpn1$c8i@sparc.occ.uky.edu> <9412280252591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com> <D1nELK.1Hq@info.bris.ac.uk> <3e2c26$gdr@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inet.uni-c.dk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Lance Bailey (zaphod@bcu.ubc.ca) wrote:

: so yes, your fish might survive. but there is a good chance they
: won't, so cover up the pond with a foot or so of insulating material
: like straw, or try to keep some open water on the pond, or take
: the fish in.

   In a pond that size you might be able to use a technique that I have used 
for more than 20 years.  I live in Denmark and the weather here is not 
all that cold in winter but we have had winters with a temperature below 
-20 Centigrade (you figure it out in F).  When the ice gets about a foot 
or so thick I cut a small hole in it, pump out half an inch of 
water and cover up the hole.  That half inch of air is enough to 
ensure that the "open" water below does not freeze.  I would think 
that this technique should work even if it gets much colder than 
the -20 C. 
   Of course the pond has to be a relatively small one in order for the 
ice to stay where it is after pumping out the water under it (mine is 
about 1000 gallons and is about three feet deep).

Christian Zoega Jessen 


From wkb@magnum.cb.att.com Sun Jan  1 11:25:00 EST 1995
Article: 312 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!koriel!rutgers!att-out!nntpa!not-for-mail
From: wkb@magnum.cb.att.com (W. Keith Brummett)
Subject: Re: Submersible Water Pumps
Message-ID: <D1pFKE.5sq@nntpa.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.cb.att.com
Organization: I'm gonna get organized tomorrow ...
References: <brucelsD18qD8.E2r@netcom.com> <carienix-231294090009@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu> <3dfk1b$1n7@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <some-user.13.00120B84@eznet.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 02:14:38 GMT
Lines: 33


    In article <some-user.13.00120B84@eznet.com>, Marian Murphy
    <some-user@eznet.com> wrote:
    >> ...
    >> We bought a Rubbermaid stock tank (300 gal) that we sunk in our
    >> backyard for our watergarden- it was MUCH cheaper and probably
    >> more durable than the preformed pools we've seen elsewhere.
    >
    > What were the approximate costs and dimensions for the 300 gal stock
    > tank?

    I have a catalog and price list for Rubbermaid agricultural products.
    They're from 1992, and I don't know whether the price list is wholesale
    or retail, but it should give an idea.  The stock tanks are heavy-duty,
    molded, seamless, gray plastic, are oval in shape, and have a 1.5" drain
    plug near the bottom on one side.  A local store uses the 100g model to
    display large fruits, and I can tell you that it is *very* sturdy.  The
    walls are very steep -- almost straight up.  I have been thinking of
    getting the 300g model for use as a small pond.  Glad to know someone
    tried it and was successful.  Anyway, here's the info from Rubbermaid:

      #4243   50 gal  52"L x 31"W x 12"H ........ $ 78
      #4242  100 gal  52"L x 31"W x 25"H ........ $ 96
      #4245  150 gal  58"L x 39"W x 25"H ........ $140
      #4247  300 gal  69"L x 63"W x 25"H ........ $210

    -- Keith

-- 
    | Keith Brummett           Copyright (C) 1994 by      AT&T, Room 3B202 |
    | w.k.brummett@att.com     W.K.Brummett and AT&T     6200 E. Broad St. |
    | wbrummett@attmail.com     All Rights Reserved     Columbus, OH 43213 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'


From melynda%blkhole@sdd.hp.com Sun Jan  1 20:42:08 EST 1995
Article: 313 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!blkhole!titipu!yumyum!melynda
From: melynda@titipu.resun.com (Melynda Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Frogs
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 95 07:27:09 EST(-0500)
Organization: Paleolithic Refugia
Message-ID: <01010064.io2edb@yumyum.resun.com>
Reply-To: melynda%blkhole@sdd.hp.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0
Lines: 35

you@somehost.somedomain (Peter) writes:
> I suspect that the snakes may be the cause of the problem, so my next 
> question is: How do I get rid of the snakes?

snakes differ in behaviour and habitat and food preferences from species to
species.  identify the snakes first and then ask a good herpetologist what
might work.

here in north florida i have witnessed my two long-haired dachshunds being
mortally wounded by a diamond back rattler which strayed into their fenced
pet yard.  we built a new yard with one quarter inch mesh hardware cloth buried
about a foot to discourage burrowing under the fence.  the mesh extends up
about another foot.  the heavy bodied snakes do not climb it.  but alas a
copperhead did as did a pygmy rattler.  my new puppy of four years....doxies
stay immature for a long time was bitten on her nose by the pygmy.  she survived
that unkind bite.  when the copperhead got into her yard noisette coquette
let me know by a distressed yip.  i rescued her.  the copperhead lay quietly
stretched out in puppo's favourite digging spot.  i screamed subtly.  the
snake began to lick a path out.  it stood on its tail and climbed over a mesh
barrier and then up a post to get out by a garden gate.  we are now in the
process of extending the mesh another two feet with a lip curved out to prevent
slim bodied snakes from climbing in to the fenced pet yard.
         sigh.  i also have a bog garden guarded by an indigo snake. 
         plus a year round stream with a natural waterfall and plans for 
         water gardens on the south of my sculpture garden.  when i am not
         fending off pit vipers and housework i am an artist.  i like my 
         indigo snake and have had pet copperheads i used to pet, thinking
         in my awesome naivety that they were corn snakes with heavy metal
         headdress.  snakes can be fine garden companions.  but pit vipers
         and pets and children do not mix well.  language difference.  it
         is hard to talk with a limbic brained primordial mind.  
              gee i have writ enough.  melynda the inept typist

melynda reid   who wears hats but does not type caps
  eel:   melynda@titipu.resun.com
  snail: p o box 378 greensboro, florida 32330


From tcampbel@nando.net Sun Jan  1 20:42:09 EST 1995
Article: 314 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!merlin.nando.net!merlin.nando.net!not-for-mail
From: tcampbel@nando.net (Tcampbel)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Frogs
Date: 1 Jan 1995 15:15:25 -0500
Organization: NandO -- The News & Observer online service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3e72gt$gcd@merlin.nando.net>
References: <01010064.io2edb@yumyum.resun.com>
Reply-To: tcampbel@nando.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.nando.net
Keywords: Snakes

We're building a new house in the woods, and will be building a small koi 
pond when the main house is done. My builder is quite confident that 
snakes will want to make it their home, and offered the following two 
suggestions:

Snakes dislike lime.  Draw a line of lime, just like on a baseball 
diamond around whatever area you want to protect.  You have  to refresh 
it somewhat regularly, but it should work.  He also suggested heavy hemp 
rope.  Most snakes don't like it for some reason, and wont dross it.  I 
haven't tried out either idea yet.

Tom C.



From epur01@email.mot.com Sun Jan  1 20:42:09 EST 1995
Article: 315 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!fl08ara044.comm.mot.com!user
From: epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns)
Subject: Looking for Anubias for the Pond
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 1995 19:19:37 -0500
Message-ID: <epur01-0101951919370001@fl08ara044.comm.mot.com>
Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.2.27.76
Lines: 12

I am looking for a U.S. source for Anubias (yes, its a plant), to grow in
my pond. Most desired is Anubias giganteus.  Anubias is an aroid that is
native to West Africa that grows on the edges of streams and ponds.  Seed
would be acceptable from anywhere.  Can someone help?

-- 
Don Burns                        \ Motorola E-Mail: epur01
Motorola Inc.                     \    Internet:epur01@email.mot.com
North American Radio Systems Divn  \        Voice: 305-475-5518
Plantation, FL  U.S.A.              \          Fax: 305-475-6095
            
X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/


From gwoods@nyx.cs.du.edu Mon Jan  2 09:55:42 EST 1995
Article: 316 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail
From: gwoods@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gary  Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Bull frog won't croak!
Date: 1 Jan 1995 19:13:00 -0700
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3e7nfc$g8a@nyx.cs.du.edu>
References: <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx.cs.du.edu

In article <3dnto0$5ph@news.blkbox.com>,
Steven Whatley <swhatley@blkbox.com> wrote:
>My parents built a 1500 gallon pond over two years.  About six months 
>after the pond was built. a baby bull frog moved in.  We have no idea 
>where it came from.  Jake will be two years old very soon and its getting 
>pretty big.  The only thing is that it has not made a sound, yet.  Does a 
>bull frog only croak when there are other bull frogs around.

At my pond (dirt; approx 2/3ACre), bullfrogs will clam up when I get near,
then start croaking if I'm very, very quiet, or leave.  Don't know if 
they need another frog to "talk" to, because they do.

Yes, we have small Pickeral frogs that lay strands of eggs somewhat later 
than the bullfrogs, and make *lots* of noise.

Gary Woods




From jopowers@delphi.com Mon Jan  2 09:55:43 EST 1995
Article: 317 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!jopowers
From: jopowers@delphi.com (John R. Powers, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: City Pond Raccoons
Date: 2 Jan 1995 11:52:29 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <9501020653591.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
References: <3dtiie$aml@cascade.pnw.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com
X-To: John R. Powers, Jr. <jopowers@delphi.com>

 
> After losing some beautiful Red Cap Orandas to the Raccoons this fall I  
>need to build some kind of electric barrier. The pond is a small backyard  
>in the city type and has thick wire mesh over the top.
> I can't see where the standard horse electric fence would work in this  
>case, any suggestions?
> 
> .............TruFax        

    You may try bribing the raccoons.  I have apple trees planted near my
pond, and the raccoons leave them alone (I get nightly visits from the
little buggers in the summer).  I find half eaten apples (unripe and fallen)
all the time.  
    It never occured to me that the apple were why the raccoons were leaving
my fish alone until I read the bribery idea in a pond book.

-John R. Powers, Jr. 



From jopowers@delphi.com Mon Jan  2 09:55:44 EST 1995
Article: 318 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!jopowers
From: jopowers@delphi.com (John R. Powers, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Looking for Statues
Date: 2 Jan 1995 11:52:44 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <9501020653592.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
References: <kludgeD1Kq9r.49A@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com
X-To: John R. Powers, Jr. <jopowers@delphi.com>


>PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.BONZE.
>--scott
>--  
>"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hey scott...

>PLEASE!  This is REC.PONDS, not REC.LETS.ANNOY.THE.HELL.OUT.OF.EVERYONE.
   WITH.OUR.SIMPLE.LITTLE.ASSOCIATIVE.MIND 





From jopowers@delphi.com Mon Jan  2 09:55:44 EST 1995
Article: 319 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!jopowers
From: jopowers@delphi.com (John R. Powers, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Ponds in the winter
Date: 2 Jan 1995 11:53:01 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <9501020653593.DLITE.jopowers@delphi.com>
References: <D1nELK.1Hq@info.bris.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com
X-To: John R. Powers, Jr. <jopowers@delphi.com>

Previously Ian wrote:

>decent burial. Imagine her horror when we heard somewhere that most fish
>survive being frozen!   
>    Is this true? Did our fish recover to find they'd been buried alive?
> 
>Ian

    A fish cannot survive being frozen solid.  The expanding water in the
tissue cells of the fish would cause catastrophic damage.  I did once
hear of a small goldfish being quick frozen in liquid nitrogen, and then
quickly defrosted.  It lived,  but I have to wonder how well it did on its
SAT scores after that.
    
    Another thing someone told me once was that in very cold water, the
colder water will rise to the surface of the pond, while the warmer will
sink.  This confuses me, because I thought water became denser as it got
colder UNTIL it crystalized into ice, THEN it became less dense (Mabey I am
dense.) 
    Any way, this was another reason for not using a pump during the winter,
it would disturb the stratifying of the water temperature layers.



From Snipe@snipe.demon.co.uk Mon Jan  2 09:55:45 EST 1995
Article: 320 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
From: Snipe@snipe.demon.co.uk (Steve Snipe Hall)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!demon!snipe.demon.co.uk!Snipe
Subject: Re: Welcome REC.PONDS!
References: <3d8ob3$6f7@news.uni-c.dk> <epur01-2012941458060001@fl08sun01.comm.mot.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: Scolopacidae on-line
Reply-To: Snipe@snipe.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.6
Lines:  20
X-Posting-Host: snipe.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 13:19:41 +0000
Message-ID: <762804955wnr@snipe.demon.co.uk>
Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

In article: <3d8ob3$6f7@news.uni-c.dk>  nbduck@inet.uni-c.dk (S|ren Erichsen) 
writes:
} 
} Don Burns (epur01@email.mot.com) wrote:
} : Well, its about time!   Anybody else here with us ducks?
} 
} I'm here, but then again. I _am_ a duck!
} 
} 	the (At Last A Pond-group) Duck
} 
Goddag, Hr. And.

Is this thread restricted to Anatidae? or may Scolopacidae participate?
 (please)

--  _
   (
   _)nipe  -  A Scolopacida is for life, not just for Christmas.



From dwheeler@leland.Stanford.EDU Mon Jan  2 09:55:46 EST 1995
Article: 321 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!dwheeler
From: dwheeler@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Brockman Wheeler)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Looking for Anubias for the Pond
Date: 2 Jan 1995 07:43:18 GMT
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3e8aqm$2gp@nntp.Stanford.EDU>
References: <epur01-0101951919370001@fl08ara044.comm.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: elaine41.stanford.edu

In article <epur01-0101951919370001@fl08ara044.comm.mot.com>,
Don Burns <epur01@email.mot.com> wrote:

>I am looking for a U.S. source for Anubias (yes, its a plant), to grow in
>my pond. Most desired is Anubias giganteus.  Anubias is an aroid that is
>native to West Africa that grows on the edges of streams and ponds.  Seed
>would be acceptable from anywhere.  Can someone help?

Maybe...Delaware Aquatic Imports carries at least 5 varieties of Anubias.
I don't see giganteus on the list but you should callthe owner at 
(302) 738-4042 (call evenings and wkends, he's got a day job, and let it ring 
because he's usually out in the ponds and answers on a portable phone) and ask
what he's got.

David Wheeler




From smither@netcom.com Mon Jan  2 23:20:51 EST 1995
Article: 322 of rec.ponds
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!smither
From: smither@netcom.com (Bob Smither)
Subject: Re: LillyPons Address?
Message-ID: <smitherD1sHoq.202@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3da18k$sms@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 17:53:13 GMT
Lines: 11

For pumps, try your local Home Depot.  Ours has a fair selction at competitive
prices.

Regards,
Bob Smither

-- 
===========================================================================
Bob Smither            Office:(713)331-2744  | 1-800-     Vote Libertarian:
Circuit Concepts, Inc.    Fax:(713)331-4616  |    682-  Smaller Government,
smither@netcom.com        BBS:(713)331-0860  |     1776       Bigger People
=========================================================================== 


From mburr@coho.halcyon.com Mon Jan  2 23:20:52 EST 1995
Article: 323 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!coho!mburr
From: mburr@coho.halcyon.com (Michael Burr)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Noisy Ponds
Date: 2 Jan 1995 18:36:46 GMT
Organization: NW NEXUS, Inc. -- Internet Made Easy (206) 455-3505
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3e9h3u$422@news.halcyon.com>
References: <trg1.49.08B26F3C@ins.infonet.net> <3dl6pl$l2l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: coho.halcyon.com

In article <3dl6pl$l2l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Ky Woman 2 <kywoman2@aol.com> wrote:
>>Is it REALLY necessary for him to run this fountain 24 hours a day<
>
>Maybe not in UK, but it IS necessary in certain areas where the air and
>water temps get quite warm.  Warm water holds alot less oxygen than does
>cool water.  The fountain helps in adding oxygen to the water.    Not a
>really big deal if the pond is understocked, but if you're running at full
>throttle with the fish, you'd better make sure they've got plenty of oxy
>or you'll go out one morning and find some belly up.

I agree with this completely - depends on the number and type of fish
and average water temps.  Here in Seattle I have a 2000 sq ft pond
with a low denisity of fish and have never needed biological filtering.

------------
Michael Burr: mburr@coho.halcyon.com
"There is one outstanding important fact concerning spaceship Earth,
 and that is that no instruction book came with it."
 --- R. Buckminster Fuller ---



From mburr@coho.halcyon.com Mon Jan  2 23:20:53 EST 1995
Article: 324 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!coho!mburr
From: mburr@coho.halcyon.com (Michael Burr)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: skeeters
Date: 2 Jan 1995 18:41:03 GMT
Organization: NW NEXUS, Inc. -- Internet Made Easy (206) 455-3505
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3e9hbv$4a6@news.halcyon.com>
References: <3d9ied$p9b@news.tamu.edu> <carienix-211294114717@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: coho.halcyon.com

In article <carienix-211294114717@muckraker.inhs.uiuc.edu>,
Carie Nixon <carienix@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>ponds, and have used guppies.  The guppies are related to mosquito fish,
>and are actually called mosquito fish in their native counties.  They are
>very pretty in the pond, and since they swim around at the top, as do the
>topminnows (no kidding), they are up in the area where the mosquito larvae
>live.  They are very effective.  

How hardy are the guppies?  Will they do OK in a pond that runs from
40 - 68 degrees, and has some freeze over in the winter?


------------
Michael Burr: mburr@coho.halcyon.com
"There is one outstanding important fact concerning spaceship Earth,
 and that is that no instruction book came with it."
 --- R. Buckminster Fuller ---


From mburr@coho.halcyon.com Mon Jan  2 23:20:54 EST 1995
Article: 325 of rec.ponds
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!coho!mburr
From: mburr@coho.halcyon.com (Michael Burr)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Snakes and Turtles
Date: 2 Jan 1995 18:46:28 GMT
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In article <3dke5u$k7o@mark.ucdavis.edu>,
John Crayon <ez042775@dale.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>
>I had hoped that, if anywhere, this would be a place where people had some
>real appreciation of the unique diversity of life that is adapted to
>wetlands/ponds.  Sure, nobody wants snapping turtles, poisonous snakes, or
>raccoons trashing their artificial mini-ecosystem.  I'd be as quick as the
>next person to remove a pest from my own pond.  But some of the readers of
>this newsgroup are fortunate to have ponds large enough to be considered
>legitimate widlife habitat.  And it may be habitat in an area where the
>naturally occurring habitat is in decline, or seriously degraded.  In such
>a case, the ethical implications of animal control are clearly different,
>especially if you've attracted a species which is in trouble in the wild. 

Hear, hear!  Well said.

------------
Michael Burr: mburr@coho.halcyon.com
"There is one outstanding important fact concerning spaceship Earth,
 and that is that no instruction book came with it."
 --- R. Buckminster Fuller ---


From bledbet@mindspring.com Wed Jan  4 20:36:41 EST 1995
Article: 326 of rec.ponds
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From: bledbet@mindspring.com (Bruce Ledbetter)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 17:30:00 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
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In article <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu> pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma) writes:
>From: pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma)
>Subject: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 10:34:16 -0500

>I am a novice who is interested in building an indoor pond/waterfall.  I
>am seeking information on how to build such a thing. 
>   Peter

I just knocked down a pond that I built inside my sunroom (Inclosed Carport).  
I build houses and I know just how much stress wood can take.  I built a pond 
that was 10' wide by 18' long.  Half of it was 2' deep and half was 1' deep 
with the water being pumped from the lower section to the higher section 
therefor giving me a nice water fall.  All of this pond was built from 2"X8"'s 
with commercial linner installed.  I took it down because I could not afford 
to heat the thing. I was keeping large Oscars and Pacus' in it.  If anyone is 
interested I can post a full description on how to do it.

Bruce Ledbetter (Palmetto Ga.)



From bledbet@mindspring.com Wed Jan  4 20:36:43 EST 1995
Article: 327 of rec.ponds
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From: bledbet@mindspring.com (Bruce Ledbetter)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 17:33:24 -0400
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In article <jwasson-3012941529420001@dialin-9.eznet.net> jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson) writes:
>From: jwasson@eznet.net (Jason Wasson)
>Subject: Re: Synthetic rock/Indoor Pond Constructn???
>Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 15:29:42 -0400

>In article <3e17dt$gge@news1.digex.net>, rroemer@access.digex.net (Rich
>Roemer) wrote:

>> In article <pemanuel-2812941034160001@beaker.ab.umd.edu>,
>pemanuel@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (pe.ma) says:

>> Hi - we have an indoor, 400 gallon koi pond in our basement that we made using
>
>How do you deal with humidity? I would think a pond that big, would
>generate a lot of humidity. What about in the winter time, if your
>basement is heated I would expect faster evaporation of the pond. Just
>curious if you're seeing these problems. I'm exploring the possibility of
>indoor ponds in green houses.

>Thanks,
>Jason Wasson
>-- 
>jwasson@eznet.net

>Live Simply, So Others Can Simply Live

Humidity can be delt with as long as you can afford the "HEAT". When the pond 
temp rises a few degrees above the room temp the Humidity gets real bad.


From meschmidtke1@stthomas.edu Wed Jan  4 20:36:44 EST 1995
Article: 328 of rec.ponds
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From: meschmidtke1@stthomas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Frogs
Date: 2 Jan 95 16:55:27 +600
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In article <3e72gt$gcd@merlin.nando.net>, tcampbel@nando.net (Tcampbel) writes:
> We're building a new house in the woods, and will be building a small koi 
> pond when the main house is done. My builder is quite confident that 
> snakes will want to make it their home, and offered the following two 
> suggestions:
> 
> Snakes dislike lime.  Draw a line of lime, just like on a baseball 
> diamond around whatever area you want to protect.  You have  to refresh 
> it somewhat regularly, but it should work.  He also suggested heavy hemp 
> rope.  Most snakes don't like it for some reason, and wont dross it.  I 
> haven't tried out either idea yet.
> 
> Tom C.
> 

Actually your builder is full of beans.  Neither of these two bonafide
old wives tales will do anything whatsoever to discourage snakes.

a couple of things to look at if you don't want snakes frequenting your
pond is food and shelter with shelter probably being the more important
of the two.  Snakes are very shy animals that need hiding spots to live in
during the times that they are inactive (which is most of the time) so make
sure that there are no boards, brush piles, piles of rocks or other debris
laying around that a snake could squeeze into or under (snakes like a tight
fit to feel secure)  of course this may affect your landscaping ideas, that
pile of decorative fieldstone with the Irish moss may look as good to a 
snake as it does to you.

Snakes are also not great wanderers.  If y
