EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 6, Number 2 Today's Topics: Jarre (7 messages) Opcode's Vision and SMPTE (6 messages) Hardware sequencers (2 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 89 09:52:10 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Jarre 7 Jun 89 11:55:46 EDT <13232.8906071734@lfcs.ed.ac.uk There were reports over USEnet for the Houston concert; I may have one of the reports on-line here, so I'll try to dig it out. I was at the Destination Docklands concert, and typed in a review for USEnet. If there's demand, I'll post one or other or both of these, but they're rather long... Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 89 10:08:43 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Jarre's Dockland concert 7 Jun 89 20:01:03 BST <13723.8906071906@lfcs.ed.ac.uk Patrick says: I have the full details of the setup --- not off hand though. He does have excuse for using tape recorders, because some of the ethic instruments cannot be done other ways. What he doesn't have an excuse for, though, is some of the out-and-out mime. Check out the televised version of Docklands. At the start, there is that metallic percussive rhythm, and a guy belting bits of metal plate to make some of the metallic sounds, right? Wrong, most of the rhythm is a ROM PCM sample loop from a D-50. Back to that argument again about music vs. art vs. theatre vs. ... The show was quite entertaining, but didn't feel at all live, which is a shame. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 89 22:05:53 BST From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" Subject: Jarre's mime Nick wrote: >metallic percussive rhythm, and a guy belting bits of metal plate to make >some of the metallic sounds, right? Wrong, most of the rhythm is a ROM >PCM sample loop from a D-50. Confirmation ! I think the sample/loop was called 'Ironworks', and you will find it in your D-110 too. *P.S. Have you gone through all the sample loops in there yet ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 10:37:26 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Jarre's mime 8 Jun 89 22:05:53 BST <21224.8906090016@lfcs.ed.ac.uk Patrick: >Confirmation ! I think the sample/loop was called 'Ironworks', >and you will find it in your D-110 too. Er, no, the actual PCM loops in the D-series machines aren't named; only the tones, timbres, and so on. Jarre's opening piece was built from an overlay of one of the samples with itself, in octave unison, in G# minor. There is also a subtle synth embellishment added to the loop. Anyway, my comment about miming stands: you can get almost the entire rhythm part from the opening of "Revolutions" by holding down one key on a D-50...! >*P.S. Have you gone through all the sample loops in there yet ? Most of them. I'm trying to get my generic patch editor off the ground first, to give me better access to this machine than the postage-stamp sized display. I've lost so many musical ideas through having to mess about with this tiny panel, reboot the Mac to bring up UniFinder to run a buggy voice editor, etc. etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 89 16:53:12 EDT From: Cecilia Tan Subject: Jarre, mime, etc Nick, if you don't post your reviews, could you mail them to me? I'm kind of fanatical about these things. I'm not too put off by mime and imitation at electronic concerts as long as they don't look out of place. What I mean is, consistent usage or exclusion of it is important. Maybe I didn't phrase that quite the right way. It doesn't seem that much different to me than when Tamino plays the Magic Flute in the opera and it is actually being played by the flautist in the orchestra. In the ORIGINAL Die Zauberflote the flute was actually played by the actor/singer, but today it is common practice to have the part faked. Here's another thing to think about. How about when Jarre or whomever makes a gesture into the air and something explodes or lights come on or a cymbal crashes. Is this mime not good because he isn't really doing it? I don't really know how I feel about this whole thing really. I guess I can only say what I have seen work and what I have seen fail miserably. -ctan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 10:23:23 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Jarre, mime, etc 8 Jun 89 16:53:12 EDT <20841.8906082149@lfcs.ed.ac.uk >Here's another thing to think about. How about when Jarre or whomever makes a >gesture into the air and something explodes or lights come on or a cymbal >crashes. Is this mime not good because he isn't really doing it? I think the thing I don't like is the allusion to liveness when it isn't. If Jarre makes some gesture into the air and and something explodes (like one of his Studiomaster mixers (in-joke) :-)) then it's obviously not intended that the gesture is directly responsible. Now, what if he's "playing" a keyboard or the laser harp? The implication is that these are real instruments, so that faking this is a bit of a con... I suspect that there are deeper psychological issues here ("oh no", you say...) I tend to be put off by people pretending to do something musical when they aren't - playing (esp. live) is difficult and demanding. Isn't the audience short-changed when the artist isn't doing so? Why should I bother doing things live (& perhaps imperfectly) if audiences become accustomed to everything being prearranged and perfect? Is an audience going to be irritated by my (partial) use of sequencers after having seen stuff like this? etc. etc. Reviews of the Docklands concerts follow. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 16:08:31 BST From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" Subject: Metal loop Dear Nick, You are right. The samples don't have names. I was referring to the patch 'Ironworks' in my D-10 which makes use of that sample loop. This is the only way I can think of describing it. Patrick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 89 10:02:16 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Opcode's 'Vision' sequencer 7 Jun 89 18:01:52 BST <13376.8906071809@lfcs.ed.ac.uk Patrick says: In a 'pattern' based sequencer, a complete song can be... These kind of sequencers are very good for 'pop' music... This actually models the way I tend to use Performer, which is, as you probably know, sequential in nature (although it has nested looping features). The first thing I tend to do is lay out the intro/verse/chorus structure in terms of bars, and then drop commented markers into the sequence. Then I'll start doing passes over these. Some will be step-recorded looped rhythms, some will be straight recorded sections, some will be pasted/merged repeats, and some will be "programmed mixes" like volume or aftertouch sweeps. I prefer a linear sequencer because I think of music as being structured in a linear way. If I have two choruses, I want them to conceptually start at (say) bar 66 and bar 78, because they are different. I will have markers here, and quite possibly other things developing over chorus boundaries. The mix might be different, there may be something fading in between them, and so on. Isn't there a danger in a pattern-based sequencer that you lose the feel of development and just start dropping in identical repeats? Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 11:17:00 EST From: Chris Iverson Subject: Synching to SMPTE Would anyone care to post a description of how external timing devices work? Eric and Patrick apparently use some sort of 'Jambox' type of device (perhaps you, too, Nick?). Do these devices generate time code, or simply respond to it? I also have seen for sale a CD with about sixty minutes of SMPTE code on it, presumably to record onto one track of a tape so you can synch a sequencer to the tape. My guess is that the jambox converts the taped code to midi for transmission to the sequencer, but I'd rather not guess. What is involved in tape to sequencer synchronization? I would like to eventually (as funds become available) start synching my Mac to my four-track, as I am collaborating with a friend of mine 1000 miles distant, and the low- tech method of sending analog tapes back and forth is getting old. Thanks, chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 17:59:22 BST From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" Subject: SMPTE >Would anyone care to post a description of how external timing devices work? >Eric and Patrick apparently use some sort of 'Jambox' type of device (perhaps >you, too, Nick?). Do these devices generate time code, or simply respond >to it? Chris, These devices mainly do two things : 1.) Generate SMPTE code output onto tape/film. Better known as 'stripping tape' this is usually done prior to a sound recording by the engineer. The start time is set on the device, then the code is recorded onto (usually) the last track of the tape. The time display is as following: 00 : 00 : 00 : 00 hour min. sec. frames There may be 24, 25 or 30 frames in a sec. For video work I believe they use 24 frames/sec. For home 4-tracks I find 30 frames give better tracking and less drop-outs. 2.) Receive SMPTE code from tape/film, display time/frame and generate MIDI start and song pointers. On replay of the stripped tape, and with the device switched to 'receive' the display of the device shows the time code, according to the tape position. The next thing to do is to program the start and tempo of the sequence. Most devices are capable of calculating song tempo for a sequence given a specified time period. In some devices you may 'punch in' a start marker and tempo changes while the tape is running. Note that these information don't go on the tape -- they are stored into the device's memory. In the case of Jambox/Performer, the information is stored in the 'Cue-sheet' window of the program itself. Performer does all of the calculations and generation of song pointers. Jambox only works when connected to the Macintosh, before the days of Computer sequencing you would have to get stand- alone SMPTE/MIDI interfaces like the Yamaha MSS-1 and Roland SBX-80, but top-range drum machines like the Emu SP-12 also had SMPTE built-in. Patrick. P.S. Eric, would you archive this article for future use ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 17:26:25 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Synching to SMPTE >Eric and Patrick apparently use some sort of 'Jambox' type of device (perhaps >you, too, Nick?). No, I don't actually need one, since I don't use tape of any kind. I fly everything live, just using the sequencer. I'll leave the technical discussion of this to those who know more about the gadgets. The main problems (I think) are that SMPTE is a time-related thing, whereas sequencers are tempo and beat-related, so something somewhere has to do the translation. Hence, a lot of the SMPTE to MIDI converters do tempo control themselves, and just send tempo information to the sequencer (which therefore loses the tempo control itself). I think that this is a case of putting the functionality into the wrong box: my sequencer has good notions of tempo control, so why should I control it from outside? If MIDI Timecode ever takes off, this will cease to be a problem. ...hmm, I'm trying to remember how Performer does this, now... it's possible that Performer just says "right, give me 60bpm from the timecode and I'll do my own tempo control." Hence, the hit-cueing features it has. Can anybody else clear this up for me? Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 89 13:07:43 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: sequencers/syncing on chain sequencers: i know what you mean about the tendency of chain composition to get repetitive... but here's what i do... i record a single massive block, consisting of many tracks whose total is the maximum busy-ness of the intended piece. i then copy this block to other blocks, and remove selected portions. if i'm going to open the piece with a building energy, which i do alot, i'll sort of stairstep the copy/delete process... another block with one track removed..copy it, remove a track, copy that, remove a track, and so on, until i'm left with only one or two rhythm tracks for the opening. this is particularly effective for me since i put all my drums on separate tracks, so i can vary the rhythm pattern from block to block pretty easily. then when i string these blocks together, if one seems empty, out of place, or redundant, i can just record a new track into that block alone, providing some rhythm, chord, or melody difference in that occurence of that section. this system works a lot more closely with the way i normally think than linear sequencing. on syncing: patrick sort of did the thing on smpte. i just want to add that performer uses the jambox pretty intelligently. it can either use the MIDI clock that the box generates in response to incoming SMPTE, or it can do 'direct lock', in which it extracts its own tempo from the timing data. in this mode, the thing is tempo-independent of the box and the timecode. which is how it should be. oh, btw.. that's normally 30 fps for video, i believe, when in b&w, or drop frame for color. this provides a problem, because while on the one hand most pro houses are running on 30drop, most of the jamboxes sold don't read/write it for bird-droppings. if you like, we can go into this whole depth. let us know. pat.. i would like to post a SMPTE primer, but not in the form it is now. if you like, flesh it out and send me a fuller copy for review. i'll work one, too, and get it to you for comment... between the two of us i'm sure that we can work out something useful and substantive. this is sort of along the lines of something that sterling beckwith brought up a while ago. is there anybody out there who wants to produce, or collaborate on, various types of documentation, support, tutorials? i haven't posted a resources file yet because i haven't received enough response to justify it. i've got some D10 patches on hold which will go up soon. what do YOU want to see made available here? i've obtained some fairly sizable storage space. what do you want in it? Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 89 16:02:00 EST From: Chris Iverson Subject: Jambox devices Now that I know what a jambox does, how many different flavors do I have to choose from? I have seen ads for the original Jambox (around $400 ?), and Patrick uses the Chaselock, but who else is a player in this field? Now that Southworth has gone under, and if I remember right they made the Jambox, we only have the Chaselock to choose from. Seems there must be somebody competing ...? chris ---------------------- End of EMUSIC-L Digest ********************** Date: Thu, 8 Jun 89 13:52:00 EST From: "Daniel J. Graham" Subject: ? on hardware sequencers Hi all, First, I don't think my thank-you message got through, I never saw it, so...Thanks for all the very informative responses to my basic questions. I discovered that my computer, (Lisa/Macintosh XL), will not interface with any of the MIDI converters on the market. This means that I am going to either have to buy another computer, or go to a hardware sequencer. I've been looking at the Roland MC 300 or the new 500 Mark II. I'd like to solicit comments on these two machines. Are they worth the cost, (which is high, compared to the cost of software if you already have a cmoputer), and are there any other units I really should liiik at before I decide. I really don't know much about sequencers, so any help I can get will be useful. I intend to do mostly New Age and Space music, with a little classical orchestration included, perhaps this should influence my choice, but I don't know enough to know how it should do so. Thanks for any help, Dan Graham ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 15:29:06 BST From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" Subject: Hardware Sequencers >I've been looking at the Roland MC 300 or the new 500 Mark II... Daniel, If you are into hardware sequencers, you might like to have a look into the following: In the 'middle' price range: Model Events Tracks Sync ----- ------ ------ ---- Kawai SQ-80 26,000 32 (16 in MIDI) FSK, MIDI Roland MC 300 25,000 4 (Bounce to 16) FSK, MIDI The MC-300 is identical to the original MC-500 except for it's ugly looks. Although the window is small it is still loved by a lot of professionals. Once you get used to it the operation is very quick. Although there are only 4 tracks, it will support 16-chans of MIDI, achieved by bouncing down finished tracks. The Kawai has been said to be the easiest to use sequencer around. Apart from the usual PARTS and SONGS you can also create MOTIFS which are short sections of music that you can drop into any part in the song. It's note editing is BY FAR THE BEST in hardware sequencers. You can transpose individual notes, say only the D#, into another note. I find this essential in changing drum machine assignments. It will also do quantization with specified degree of 'strength' and 'sensitivity', like Performer. So you can leave alone those notes that are quite close to the beat, to preserve 'feel', while bigger mistakes are quantized. Kawai is my favourite hardware alternative to Performer. In the 'upper' price range: Model Events Tracks Sync ----- ------ ------ ---- Akai ASQ-10 60,000 99 (64 in MIDI) SMPTE, FSK, MIDI, Click. Roland MC-500ii 100,000 8 (Bounce to 32) FSK, MIDI Both of these sequencers are BIG in terms of memory. This is essential if you are doing long pieces with lots of controllers, or if you are gigging --- you don't want to be loading sequences in the middle of a show and cold the audience down. The MC-500ii has two MIDI outs and can produce 32 channels simultaneously. The Akai has four outs and can do 64 ! This is unnecessary for most but for Nick, myself and the like 16-channels can run out in a flash (we both have D-110 and other channel-munching synth modules). Both are excellent machines, and very robust. Could do with more transposing and quantizing options but if you can play well you might not need quantizing at all. Patrick. ------------------------------