------------------------------ EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 7, Number 2 Today's Topics: EMUSIC-L Tape Progress MIDI Interfaces for IBM PS/2 Model 50Z (3 messages) Request for Information about Scanning Musical Scores Request for PC-based Scoring Program w/Tablature Review of Mac Performer 3.0 Where to Get Mac SIMMs Cheap (2 messages) Roland U-20 (4 messages) Request for Recommended Keyboards (3 messages) Reqest for Information on 360 Systems' MIDIBass Questions about MIDI Hookups (3 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 89 10:23:35 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: EMUSIC-L Tape Cecilia, I don't know if it's possible to get a tape into your mailbox by August 1st - I've had trans-Atlantic postcards take as much as a month, so for safe delivery it would have had to be posted a couple of weeks ago... I've got most of my piece into place (sounds, rhythms, chord progressions), so I have to fill in the holes. The piece will be around 6-7 minutes long, I reckon. I intend to get it in the mail to you at the start of next week (around the 17th). I hope it arrives in time... Yours, from the depths of Performer, Nick. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk !mcvax!ukc!lfcs!nick ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Fais que ton reve soit plus long que la nuit. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 89 14:11:00 EST From: CHAOS INCARNATE Subject: PS/2 Model 50Z Does anyone know where I might find a MIDI interface for a Model 50Z? Thanks, Dan Kraus DKRAUS@FORDMURH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 89 14:23:49 EDT From: "Kevin R. Weiner" Subject: Re: PS/2 Model 50Z Roland finally announced an MPU-compatible MIDI interface for the Micro Channel, but it may be several months until it is available. Best to check with a Roland dealer. If you can't wait, KEE's Midiator uses the machine's serial interface, but has limited software availability. Kevin Weiner Lehigh University Computing Center (215) 758-3991 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 08:29:00 EDT From: "Dr. DOS" Subject: RE: PS/2 Model 50Z I thought this was probably of general interest, so I replied here instead of directly. Dan Kraus asked about Microchannel PS/2 MIDI interfaces recently. At the last NAMM show, Roland announced a Microchannel MPU-401. No delivery date was given, but I'd guess Fall sometime. I've no idea on pricing either. KEE Industries makes the Midiator, which is a serial port-based interface which is unfortunately incompatible with most MIDI software. If it were me, I think I'd wait a bit and see if Roland actually gets the MPU-IMC (I think that's the designation) out the door in a timely manner. Dave Goodwin GOODWIN@SMCVAX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 89 11:23:00 EST From: 219 DAN MANDELL 284-4610 Subject: Scanning Music scores A musician friend has asked me to determine 1) whether the capability exists to scan musical scores. 2) whether there are accepted standards (redundant?) for storing such data...(Midi???) 3) whether folks are working on the problem... Dan Mandell University of Notre Dame xlykn8@irishmvs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 89 16:14:59 EDT From: "Kevin R. Weiner" Subject: Tablature Does anyone have experience with a PC-based scoring program which handles guitar tablature as well as standard notation? Kevin Weiner Lehigh University Computing Center (215) 758-3991 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 17:35:59 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Performer 3.0 - quicky review. 6 Jul 89 11:33:00 EST <1650.8907061713@lfcs.ed.ac.uk Just a quick review of Performer 3.0 before I disappear off home to work on my contribution to the EMUSIC-L tape... I bought Performer 2.31 about a year ago, and got the free upgrade to 2.41 a few months ago, so I wasn't expecting 3.0 quite so soon. Anyway... being a new version number, it requires money. I paid $110 for the upgrade, which comes as a complete package with manual and two disks (a different colour, and a different dongle-disk scheme to the old ones - I tried it...). In other words, a complete package, not just an upgrade. So, I suppose I could give my 2.41 package to a friend, couldn't I? Except that nobody in their right mind in the UK saves up for a Mac to do music... The main enhancement is, er, the size. 2.31 fitted on a 400K disk. 2.41 ran over that, to around 470K I think. 3.0 is 670K. That makes it too big to run on a 1Meg Mac w/ Multifinder, which is annoying. (What's the current price for 2 x 1Meg SIMMS? Anybody know?) 3.0 supports a few odds and ends like saving default window/option settings (although it doesn't save the state of the input/edit/view filters, which is an irritation), and a tap-tempo option so that it can pick up a tempo from MIDI events. The big enhancement, though, is graphical event editing. The graphical editing looks really nice, like the rest of Performer, of course - real designer software. The benefit of Performer's editing is (apparently) that a graphical window shows *all* the events - it's divided into a player-piano note region, a "median bar" with patch changes, SysEx etc., and a region below it for continuous controllers. Of course, in true Mac fashion, it's a proper window, rather than some dedicated editing screen, so you can have a graphical editing window alongside (eg.) the controls and counter. It can be resized, the display can be zoomed either horizontally (time) or vertically (pitch/range), and the median bar can be dragged up and down. I've not got a lot more to say about it, actually. The graphical editing seems to conform completely to the Mac interface guidelines, with shift/click for range selections and so on. In addition, there are various curve drawing routines for pitch-bend and the like, although I haven't played with these. The "audition" feature works as well - click a note and it sounds, outline a set of notes and option/click the audition button and they play, and so on. A couple of reservations. Firstly, it's a little slow. A clicked note will sometimes take a wee while to highlight. This isn't too serious, though - your mileage may vary (and I have a lowly Mac+). Secondly, you can't have the event list and graphical window for one track at the same time (although you can mix and match for several tracks). I tend to do most of my editing using the old event windows, and would like to have the graphical window visible as well to see my updates. It's quite common to open a graphical editing window and see nothing, since it'll open above/below/before/after any note information. This is a bit irritating, but I can't think of any nice elegant alternative. In summary - I find that the graphical editing is nice to have for some things, but I was fairly happy without it. Perhaps I'll get hooked. The main reason I upgraded was to keep in step with new releases, ready for the Apple MIDI Manager to come along, whenever that happens. Give me a shout if you want any specific details. Nick. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk !mcvax!ukc!lfcs!nick ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Fais que ton reve soit plus long que la nuit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 16:45:00 EST From: Chris Iverson Subject: SIMMS prices Nick, You can get SIMMS modules for the Mac here in the States for as little as\ $129.00 per megabyte, with a five-year warranty or better on the chips to boot. Here are some addresses: South Coast Electronics 700 S. Flower St. #2200 Los Angeles, CA 90017 213-489-7824 or (800) 289-8801 [lifetime warranty - $129/megabyte] Chip Merchant 9285 Chesapeake Dr., Ste. L San Diego, CA 92123 619-268-4774 or (800) 426-6374 [5 year warranty - $129/megabyte] Both of these are from ads in MacWeek magazine. I know nothing of their reputations, so this is not an endorsement of any kind. If you want more sources to choose from, let me know. chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 89 11:48:00 CDT From: 312 Ron Thielen 702-7612 Subject: Re: SIMMS prices > Nick, > > You can get SIMMS modules for the Mac here in the States for as little as\ > $129.00 per megabyte, with a five-year warranty or better on the chips to boot > Here are some addresses: > I somehow missed the original note, but felt I should post a mild caution on Mac SIMMs. There are a variety of SIMMs available with differing technical specs. The two areas about which you should be most concerned are the speed and the physical size (profile) of the module. For example, a Mac IIx or IIcx should have 100 nano-second or faster SIMMs while a Mac Plus can use 120 nano-second SIMMs. Before buying, verify the requirements for your Mac and/or have the seller guarantee their product's suitability. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 89 11:31:00 EST From: "Daniel J. Graham" Subject: Roland U-20 Has anyone obtained a Roland U-20 yet? I've played with one at the store and it seems very nice, but I'd like a report from someone who has taket home/studio. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 89 13:16:00 PDT From: Willis Dair Subject: RE: Roland U-20 Since my last posting about the Roland U-20, I have convinced a friend to buy one. I will give my impression of it, and correct some misconception on my part in the last posting. My friend is real green when it comes to MIDI. He can play the piano, but does not know much about MIDI. He has seen me do some tracks and wanted to get to it. I came over his place to get him started in this wonderful obsession of multi-timbral music making. I figure I had some MIDI experience under my belt---this should be cake. Well, we spent the better part of the night figuring out how to get it to record and play multi-timbrally. First, let me get to the specs. The U-20 can play 6 different instruments or voices at once plus there is a separate drum part---that's 7 different parts total. In Roland terminology, an instrument is a part. It has a total polyphony of 30 tones either dynamically allocated, or preallocated. In preallocation, each part can be preallocated 0-30 tones. There are two U-110 ROM card compatible slots in the back. There is a stereo mix (L + R) output, plus two direct outs. The on-board effects are reverb and chorus. There are 128 different ROM waves (tones in Roland terms) and 128 timbre locations and (I think) 128 patch locations (doing this from memory). In the rhythm area, there are four different built-in drum sets (standard, dry, electronic, and FX).To the side there is a volume slider and 2 assignable continuous controller sliders. The keyboard is 61 full size keys that respond to velocity and (I believe) channel aftertouch. Something that I am not really interested in is, but comes with it, is two assignable chord buttons and an appegiator. In the patch, you can assign a different chord patterns to each chord button (such as diatonic, major, minor...). This is the major features of the unit. Those familiar with Roland gear, there is an A and B with each having 8 banks, and each bank with 8 patches (128 patches). Here is how a patch is structured. A patch contains 6 parts and a rhythm part. Each of the 6 parts contains a timbre. Each timbre contains a tone (the actual wave) and parameters to shape the tone (LFO, Filter and amplitude envelope, keyboard range, MIDI receive channel, effects...). The rhythm part contains one of the four rhythm sets. Typically, the keyboard is set up to transmit on MIDI channel 1 and the factory patch names reflect the timbre that responds to channel 1. To make it work in multi-timbrally, each part must have a receive channel associated with it. The initial setting-up of the unit is quite confusing. We spent the night jumping back and forth between edit menus looking for the parameters to change---and there are a LOT of menus. Once you know what screen has what parameter, there is a JUMP button that allows you to jump to a screen directly. Once the unit is set-up, the operations is real nice; pick the timbre and assign it to a part, change your keyboard transmit channel to respond to the part, and record. I am really envious of my friend. If I had the money and SPACE, I'd get one. I really like this unit for its sounds. It has your basic bread 'n butter sounds. I really like the acoustic and electric piano sounds. Also, it is clean and quiet. My friend and I both agree that it sounds (for our tastes) better than the Proteus---not to take anything away from the Proteus, it has its followers too. From what I hear, there is a lead time of about 2 months on the Proteus. He has his instrument now... If I did not get a W-30, this is the unit for me. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info. I can get a hold of a manual. Willis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 07:25:00 EST From: "Daniel J. Graham" Subject: RE: Roland U-20 Hi, Thanks for your observations on the U-20. You mentioned a U-30, what is that? I'm just getting started in MIDI myself. I have a Roland Piano, an older Juno 2 (love the analog sounds, even if it's only monotimberal and 6 note poly), and a brand new D-110. Roland documentation is probably the worst I've ever seen, so I am totally confused on the D-110, any experience on your part? I also have an Alesis sequencer, not fancy, but good to learn on I think. I hope you'll indulge me for a question or two: The D-110 is 16 note poly, does this mean 16 n otes on each of the 8 parts, or 16 no tes in total? Your description of the tones, patches and timbres on the U-20 sounds a lot like the same system on the D-110. I'm still trying to figure out just what it all means. In a sequencer/multiple symthesizer setup, is it possible to have two masters or do I have to keep shuffeling MIDI cables. The piano has the full sized keyboard, which I like to master for some things, but it has no pitch bend, as does the Juno, which I like to use as master on other occasions. Is this a common situation, or am I strange? Thanks for your patience and help and thoughts on the U-20, I think it'll be my next synth, unless I get an M1. Dan Graham ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 13:28:12 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Roland U-20 14 Jul 89 07:25:00 EST <9534.8907141213@lfcs.ed.ac.uk >I hope you'll indulge me for a question or two: The D-110 is 16 note poly, >does this mean 16 n otes on each of the 8 parts, or 16 no tes in total? It isn't. It has 9 parts (1-8 plus rhythm), all of which have to share 32 partials. You can be as much as 32-voice poly if your voices are pretty thin, but in practice somewhat less than this. The partials get passed around from part to part, as required, although you can allocate a number of partials which never get stolen from each particular part. You can have two master sources (I have three), but something has to merge them. I merge my D-50 and Cyclone using an MX-8 MIDI patchbay/processor, and then run the result into one port of my Mac, with the pf85 piano going into the other port. I use the piano for piano-like pieces (of course) and the D-50 keyboard for other things. The D-50 has pitch-bend, modulation, A/T and can send program changes 1-128. It's useful to have two keyboards sometimes: I tend to fill in chords on the piano while trying out solo ideas from the D-50. Because Performer can do multi-routing of MIDI input, either keyboard can go to any of my synth voices. I've recorded a piece (y'all will be hearing it soon!) which has some Cyclone-generated material on it as well. Again, I played (and recorded) the basic chord patterns from the D-50 keyboard, routing these to the Cyclone, and simultaneously recorded the Cyclone's output onto another track, with it synced to a MIDI clock from the sequencer. This seems to work pretty well (after a few false starts...). Give me a shout if you want a complete description of the D-110 voice and patch architecture... I typed one in a while ago, but seem to have lost it... Nick. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk !mcvax!ukc!lfcs!nick ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Fais que ton reve soit plus long que la nuit. ------------------------------ From "TOM DOLAN, BOX 6596, EXT. 2426" Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 11:43:07 EDT Subject: Beginner I am a beginning piano student. I have a piano at home to practice on. I would like to obtain a multi-tambral synthesizer with midi to start making other-than-piano sounds on. Don't have money for boxes and computers yet so I am mainly interested in flexible keyboard to get started. I am familiar with the names i.e. Roland, Korg, Ensoniq etc. Please give me your opinions on obtaining a keyboard. Thanks, Tom Dolan Dolan@ACUVAX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 11:40:24 CDT From: "David M. Stowell" Subject: Re: Beginner FIrst I want issue a gentle message to express my gratitude for returning to the list after having fallen off for a month or two: GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, to more civilized matters... Other EMUSIC-L members will point out that I have a strong preference for antiques, but I hope the instruments I list will be a little more accessible. If you can get an Oberheim Matrix-6, you will be in analog heaven. This axe is thick, easy to learn, multi-timbral, and it has a great MIDI implementation. The last of the Yamaha DX-series (7II, and its smaller sibling) is appropriate if you are into FM digital sounds. The new Yamaha stuff seems to be garbage. Be aware that learning good programming practice on this equipment is somewhat challenging. I like Kawai's stuff, though the K1 may be more appropriate, due to its simplicity. The K5's additive synthesis is great, but it's quite challenging. (or did I reverse those model numbers?) I play several older Korgs, but I can't recommend their current stuff. I'm not a Roland fan as of late, but I suppose I shouldn't talk it down. Ensoniq *does not* make synthesizers. Period. Of course, I started on an ARP 2600 and a Moog modular. :) |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | David M. Stowell \|/ | | University of Illinois at Chicago \ / | | BITNET: U17227@UICVM.BITNET = = | | Internet: U17227@UICVM.UIC.EDU /|\ | | <=> | | \ = / | | The optimist laughed \ = / | | And the pessimist cried in his wine = | | And the madman said "Son, = | | Take a word--they'll all wake, given time" = | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 13:20:47 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: keyboard rec's i, too am a dinosaur lover. on the other hand, i don't think i can actually recommend the Matrix 6 as a keyboard. get it as a module, instead. the actual keys are cheaper in weight and feel than most, and the lever controllers are useless. they don't reliably return to center, and disintegrate (snap off) very quickly. the only manufacturer i've come across with a worse keyboard is Ensoniq. the old Korg DW8000 straddles the boundary between digital and analog quite nicely. it's got the shimmer of the digitally sampled source waveforms, and the roundness of the analog filters. the sound is filled out even more by the onboard delays. the keyboard, though, also has problems. the key-contact mechanism gets dirty and fails faster than any other that i've seen, and certain aspects of its midi-implementation disappear at weird times. also, Korg uses a joystick for it modulation/pitchbend control, which is something that you have to get used to, particularly if you've spent alot of time (like most of us, i imagine) on the venerable and ubiquitous DX. about which... yeah, the DX has certainly earned its place in history. like the fender rhodes (which it made obsolete), it will never really disappear, regardless of what happens to its bastard cousins. the II really is nice. it glitters in a way that the original never did. the keyboard is robust as hell, although the mechanism is a little noisy when you really pound on it. but at least you really *can* pound on it. there's a reason that it has essentially become the standard master controller. good keys. unique and generally useful sounds. i probably won't ever buy one, though i can recommend it. i'll probably get the TX802 multi-timbral module version. the Kawai is ok. the keys by themselves don't stand out for any particular reason, and the K1 module doesn't seem to do anything that many other modules do a lot better for similar money. the K5 (yes, that's the additive one) is unfortunately out of production... a shame, because when you bothered to actually program it, rather than just use the canned patches, it was a truly new machine. neat spectral dynamics and all that. the only other currently relevant series of keys these days is of course the Roland stuff. i, for one, have always really liked Roland gear. fat filters, built in chorus. yeah, the mod/pitch controllers didn't come of age till way too late, but what the heck. the keys are very comfortable for my fingers. they're fast, lightly springy, don't feel like they'll break under pressure, and have a good texture. remember, i've always played synths. i'm not calibrated for piano-like keyboards. and those D sounds! someone recently bought one partially on the recommendation of this list, and has stated some dissatisfaction with it... something about it not producing sufficiently broad, new-agey sounds. and i confess i can't figure out what they're talking about. glass voices, for instance, is a beautiful combination of breath and stringness that makes me just want to sit around and press seventh chords all day. anyway, i'm not sure if any of this was coherent or concise enought to be of any use, but i hope it helps some. Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 14:42:27 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: 360 systems i'd like a review of MIDI Bass, please. Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 14:09:00 EST From: "Daniel J. Graham" Subject: MIDI connection question Hi, As I mentioned in an earlier message, I want the option of using one of two different keyboards as a master with my sequencer. What would happen if I took a spare MIDI thru box and used it backwards, i.e.: Take the outputs from two keyboards and plug them into the thru box. Take the single line from the thru box and connect it to the input of the sequencer. What I want in this is the ability to use wither my piano or Juno2 as a master for my D-110, without having to shuffle MIDI cables. Will using the MIDI thru box backwards cause any difficulties? Thanks Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 14:59:06 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: Re: MIDI connection question 14 Jul 89 14:09:00 EST from there's no such thing as backwards in MIDI. what you're looking for is called a merger. anatek just came out with a pocket MIDI series, which includes a merger, no batteries or power supply required... about $75 at a good discount house. Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 89 21:29:10 EDT From: "Kevin R. Weiner" Subject: Re: MIDI connection question Don't know if a thru box can be used backwards, but the least expensive MIDI merge device I've seen is called MIDIMIX 5 - about $40. Not too high-tech looking, but it works. Has 3 inputs/outputs on one side, and 2 switched connections on the other side. Can merge up to 3 of the inputs at a time. Box 161, Ashland, OR 97520 (503)488-1023 Kevin Weiner Lehigh University Computing Center (215) 758-3991 End of EMUSIC-L Digest ***********************