EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 7, Number 4 Today's Topics: Tape Progess Report D-50 Patch Sources Self-editing Synths (2 messages) Classic gear (9 messages) HyperCard and MIDI (2 messages) Roland MIDI Retrofit Request Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jul 89 13:48:28 EDT From: Cecilia Tan Subject: Comp tape progress Greetings! The deadline for contributions to the Emusic-l Compilation is one week away. I'd like to have all the tapes in my hands August 1st, since I want to get it all done before I go on vacation. Let me know if you have something ready or almost ready to go in the mail! Thus far we have accumulated at least enough to fill one side of a 90 minute tape (and I haven't included my piece yet) with stuff from: Nick Rothwell (it came today!) William T. Angel Carl Donath J. McIntyre Joe McMahon with a few more likely's coming soon, I hope. -cecilia tan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 89 20:52:24 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: d50 archives ok, i've got Nick Rothwell's D50 archives in the server. try pulling one of the banks down and see if it works. send GET ANALOGFX D50 to LISTSERV@AUVM, and the EMUSIC file server will send you that bank. it's uuencoded, and compressed, whatever that means. Nick didn't say what kind of compression he used.... Nick? anyway, the dumps are raw data... no editor format. so shove them down your nearest D50's throat with your simplest MidiBarf routine, and see what happens. Nick, in particular... you try it... see if you get back what you sent. there are about 20 banks, which you'll get a listing of if you send INDEX EMUSIC to LISTSERV@AUVM. the package, which will allow you to get all of them at once, will be installed by tomorrow night. and now that i'm getting this down, i should be able to get up the other stuff that i've been hanging on to. Whhooppee... Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 10:51:11 EDT From: dce@Solbourne.COM (David Elliott) Subject: Self-editing synths? Some of you may have heard of Sun's S-bus, in which cards contain some Forth code that is loaded by the system initialization code and used to initialize and identify the card. It seems to me that an interesting twist on this would be to have MIDI devices contain some kind of code that could be uploaded by an editor/librarian scaffold program to describe the data used by that device. For example, a synth could define the format of its sysex messages, such as single patch and performance send and receive, give the names of the parameters, and give value ranges. A similar message could be obtained from an effects unit. This could even include interpretive code (Forth is a good choice here, too) for handling timing, handshaking, and specialized data formatting (a la Kawai's nibbled sysex data). While this might prevent companies from making big bucks on individual patch editing programs, they would still be able to compete by creating user-definable patch editor/librarian programs to use this data. Also, it should be a fairly simple task to define these parameters for the older synths and have that data be available on the computer. After all, these synths won't be changing in the future. -- David Elliott dce@Solbourne.COM ...!{boulder,nbires,sun}!stan!dce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 12:21:43 EDT From: Mario Vergona Subject: Re: Self-editing synths? hi, Do you know that J.L. Cooper puts out a device called the MIDI FADER which is used to control the mixing of various synths in a system set up? The more interesting thing about this device, which has 8 slider con- trols, is that it can be used as an editor for synits. It has system set ups stored in it for various synths, such as the K1 (which is why I am looking into it) that will allow a person to edit up to 8 parameters at the same time. It also has an add on option (only $30 list) for software that will allow the user to define a synth setup to the MIDI FADER and store it there. (I have great hopes for my old Poly-800 thanks to this) The device lists for $299. This seems fairly close to what your message concerning use of the Forth language intended. m ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 14:17:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA Subject: Some things are classic, some things are just old Metlay wrote: >My current list of "wistful someday classic or would-be classic" instruments: >The Oberheim n-voice (n=4 or more) >The Polymoog (assuming I can keep it running) >The Mellotron (strings, choir and flute tapes, of course) >The Yamaha CS80 (the last REAL synth Yamahaha ever made, IM(NS)HO) >The ARP Quadra (thick? You could spread it on whole wheat bread and EAT it!) >The Prophet T8 (Analog sound and a REAL keyboard, yowza!) >The Prophet VS Rack (the keyboard version had problems, but that SOUND...) >The Roland TR808 (once it stops being everyone's fave beatbox, baby) >The Korg Trident (The Japanese Quadra. Nice beast!) >The Voyetra One (that's an in-joke, folx. They never finished it) >Have I missed any? My own biases would put more ARP gear on the list, especially the 2600 and the Odyssey. Oops, I just remembered how customized most of my Odyssey's are. We should keep this to stock instruments, I suppose. But I'll still champion the 2600 (and would love to buy one - or more.) Minor nitpicking: there are other good Mellotron tapes. The tympani can give you instant Viking music. I'll second the Roland TR808 nomination. A nifty feature is that the same voices sound different on different machines. It might be stretching the definition of instrument, but I would include: Echo - Plex (real time tape loops) Electro - Harmonix 16 Second Digital Delay (real time tape loops without tape) (and backwards masking made easy) E - Bow (infinite guitar sustain, perfect for feeding into echo units) Mu - Tron BiPhase (very versatile with the control pedal) A fun topic. Thanks for bringing it up, Metlay. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 14:44:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS Subject: classic fx? yow! Actually, John's point is worthwhile: is signal processing to be excluded from this list? If not, then here are a few devices I'd add to John's mention of the Echoplex (which gets used frequently in one of the studios where I work, for guitar), EH 16second delay (Carl Weingartner uses one on all of his records, yum) and MuTron Biphase (which does some neat things). Oh, the Ebow isn't classic any more: they're making them again |-> . The Gizmotron: a mechanical bowing device, invented and used by Godley and Creme way back when. Finicky but worthwhile. From ElectroHarmonix, the kings of sicko effects: the Hog's Foot, Mole, Screaming Tree, Screaming Bird, Doctor Q, Bassballs (YEAH!), Polyphase, Polychorus, Ambitron, HotTubes, Y-Trigger, Linear Power Booster 1 and 2, Bad Stone, Clone Theory, Electric Mistress, Zipper, Small Stone, Small Clone, Big Muff (Chris Franke had a Prophet 5 for a while which had one Muff per output voice!), Memory Man, at least twenty others, all of which were noisy as hell, flimsily constructed, and did things no other company's effects could do, and their MiniSynthesizer and electronic drum "kit": the Clap Track, Crash Pad, Sonic Boomer, Space Drum, Rolling Thunder, and the Clockworks Percussion Brain (analog, of course)! From Boss, before they got into the "variations on a theme" biz: the Slow Gear envelope shaper, Spectrum quasi-para EQ, and the (I love this) Bee Baa fuzz. And from the Dan Armstrong division of MuTron, who specialized in tiny but powerful effects boxes that attached directly to the guitar: The Green Ringer, Orange Squeezer, (heh) Yellow Humper, and supposedly at least two others. If anyone has any of the above that they don't want any more, esp. the Dan Armstrong stuff, or has information on what the other pedals in the Dan Armstrong series were, I'd like to know about it. (No, really: "Bee Baa"!) |-> crack patweeng, metlay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 15:50:12 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: oldies hmmm... we seem to have arpheads here... do you have any circuit info on getting external cv/gate ins on my old oddysey? yeah... love that echoplex. also, i have an undying affection for the mxr phaser. cycle time over 20 secs. big, wet, ugly swoosh. i might be able to con someone into selling me their 2600. what should be my top price, do you think? no retail store would give more than about $50, maybe $100 tops, even for one in mint condition. and i have a piece of reproductive anatomy ready to sacrifice if i can just get ahold of a memorymoog. Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 16:03:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS Subject: Blue Meanies! How many of y'all remember that nickname for the ARP 2600? Yowza! We's gettin' OLD, folx. The 2600 is a fine instrument for learners of analog signal routing, and its sound is rich enough to satisfy most analogheads (tho I prefer the Obie n- voices m'self). They can probably be gotten from Rogue Music, tho how much they'd cost is beyond me. Oh, Eric, there's a company called dBm Electronics in NYC that refurbishes and MIDIfies Memorymoogs, and they may have access to old ones for sale cheap. You sure you want to ante up the one weapon they can't take away from you? |-> salicadula lasicatula, metlay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 15:23:32 CST From: Jayson Tipp Subject: Re: classic fx? yow! Metlay... I'll bet your nickname is ona....onomatopoeia. guzundheidt! Classic equipment? does that mean old stuff???? There are some current (and recent) pieces of equipment that have had an impact which may place them in the running. Just a few: Korg M-1, Alesis HR16, Ensoniq Mirage and ESQ-1, Roland GR300,700's, Roland GP-8 (effects!). Old classic: Crybaby Goldenthroat Heil amps Morley FuzzWah Or is it just the rare stuff that's fun? Like Silvertone amps and Gtars. -Buzz. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 16:59:37 EDT From: Jeffrey R Kell Subject: Re: oldies On Thu, 27 Jul 89 15:50:12 EDT Eric Harnden said: >hmmm... we seem to have arpheads here... >do you have any circuit info on getting external cv/gate ins on my >old oddysey? I did at one time, will try to relocate it. I trashed most of my patch hardware when my old Korg MS-20 and expander got ripped off (still have the gold-on-black Odyssey). You have to be careful about getting gate, trigger, and CV. If not, you don't get the desired results; since the Odyssey was duophonic, there's a modified sample-and-hold circuit that holds the CV for one VCO while the keyboard controls the other. I seem to recall one of the lines is inverted also. ****************************** * "My God! Are we sure he was a liberal?" * "Pretty sure. They pulled him from a Volvo." * (Doonsebury) ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 17:34:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS Subject: What makes a piece of equipment a classic? Interesting point, Buzz. What makes one piece of gear a classic and another a piece of junk? First of all, neither rarity nor age are important. I think we'll all agree that the M1 will, for better or worse, be remembered a decade from now as the parent of a new type of synthesis (despite the fact that the Roland D-50 was there first, not to mention the Prophet VS): the so-called digital (acht, pting {thanx Nick} ) workstation, where you have some digital snippets here and some DSP there and some nifty doodads like a sequencer or a rhythm box or maybe a condom dispenser and it all gets stuffed into a box and they make it look simple by leaving all the useful controls off and making everything menu driven (acht pting) and you have to do ALL of your work on one in realtime (thereby obviating MIDI and all its problems) or y'all just ain't 'hep'. Dig? But I digress. (Boy, do I ever.) The requirements for a "classic" box, im(ns)ho, would include a particular approach to a problem or concept that set the item in question apart from everything around it, and defines the music of those who put it to use (at least until such time as some iconoclast comes along and uses it for something completely different. But I digress). Let's look at some examples and some counterexamples: The Korg M1 made the "one box" concept affordable. Suddenly, digital sounds with digital rhythms were controllable via digital sequencing in a box you could tuck under your arm. The concept of "taking an old idea into a new realm of convenience and flexibility" has spawned many other classics: the Minimoog was a prepatched Moog System 55 that you could use with no patch cords, the Prophet 5 was a truly polyphonic synthesizer that was easy to repatch because it remembered everything, and the TR808 was a beat box that you could actually program yourself. The Mellotron stands apart from these items in that it wasn't only a (fairly) easy way to avoid travelling with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra, but it also was a "whole new idea" in that it put real sounds under keyboard control via tape manipulation. (Hugh LeCaine did it first, but who remembers him? Sigh.) A whole "sound" grew out of the Mellotron, and Genesis, Yes, the Moody Blues, Tangerine Dream, Pallas, Strange Advane, and a zillion other bands put its stamp on their music. By contrast, the Orchestron and Birotron were attempts to cash in on this uniqueness: hence they weren't classics. The same could be applied to the Yamaha V50, the Roland W30, etc. ad nauseam. Anyone remember the sensation the DX7 caused when it was introduced six years ago? Goddamn! That was another way of becoming a classic: to do something entirely NEW! The DX7 and its FM sounds, the Golden Throat and its use of formant control of guitar tone, the first Moog and ARP synthesizers, the PPG and its introduction of wavetables, all fall into this category. On the other hand, trend-following instruments with nothing new to recommend them are forgotten. Anyone remember the Kawai SX240? Great synth, but.... The Emulator wa a classic because it took sampling out of the laboratory. The Mirage was a classic because it took sampling out of the hands of folx who could afford Emulators. The Akai s1000 sounds better than either of them, but is not and never will be a classic. Go figure. The Alesis HR16 will be a classic because everyone owns one. Feh. There are a lot of others but I think you get the idea. Suggestion for a new topic: anyone out there ever actually work with a Mellotron? Anyone own one? Anyone know where I can get Mellotron samples (a poor substitute for the real thing, but what the hey)? Second suggestion, of somewhat more general interest: How many of y'all really and truly WANT DSP chips in your synths to juice up their sounds? up up and away, metlay ps. Onomatopoeia? Never touch the stuff, my religion forbids it. |-> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 19:26:03 EDT From: Eric Harnden Subject: mellotron i don't know if it is possible to find a mellotron, *but*... 1) don't forget that its' inventor, when the company went under, continued to make the device under his own name: The Chamberlain. being a little more recent, these might be easier to find. 2) there was a guy who graduated from here some years ago, now working in maine, by the name of Norman Lederman. he invented a thing he called the Minitron. about the size of a rabit hutch, it consisted of six eight-track cart decks, whose outputs were vca'd, under control of independent eg's. the carts that he used were looped, so he didn't have the mellotron's problem of having a limited sustain time. also, since the carts were separate, he could have more than one kind of sound pallette installed at one time, and could change them in performance. pretty nifty. Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. (202) 885-2758 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 09:06:00 EST From: Chris Iverson Subject: Re: Effects Speaking of effects, I have an old Electro-Harmonix Electric Mistress which I would love to get back in working condition. Anyone know where I could get a schematic for such a beast? It may be old and analog, but it sure had a nice fat warm sound that I haven't been able to get with anything since... -chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 09:41:00 EST From: JWK%OPUS@MCOIARC Subject: HyperCard and MIDI. I tried this posting on the Macintosh list to no avail, so I thought I might try it here. Does anyone know of XCMND's for HyperCard that provide simple MIDI note communication? Commercial products or PD would all be of interest. Thanks in advance. Joe Klingler Image Analysis Research Center Medical College of Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 15:44:33 EDT From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: HyperCard and MIDI. Here's the documentation for some MIDI XCMDs/XFCNs available from the Developer Stack by Steve Drazga (available from the BITNet Mac servers or directly from sumex). MIDI XCMDs/XFCNs for HyperCard: Written by Nigel J. Redmon CIS 72736,753 XCMD: InitMIDI Rate is 1 (MHz), 2 (MHz), or 5(00 KHz), the clock rate of your MIDI interface (usually 1 MHz). Default is 1 MHz. Call this before using ResetMIDI, TxMIDI, or RxMIDI. This XCMD installs the MIDI serial interrupt handler and allocates input and output queues (8K each). XCMD: ResetMIDI ResetMIDI deallocates the queues and removes the interrupt handlers. TxMIDI ,, (params 2 and 3 are optional) Params can be single hex bytes or a string of hex bytes, with or without comma or blank separators. Ex: TxMIDI "904E40", TxMIDI 90,"4e",40 TxMIDI "90,4e,40" Bytes containing hex characters (A-F/a-f) must be in quotes; this is optional for numerics (0-9). XFCN: RxMIDI([]) If is omitted, 1 is assumed. Note that this function does not wait for that number of bytes to arrive but simply gives you as many as there are, up to the number you request. Asking for a bunch decreases the overhead of making call after call, getting only 1 byte at a time. If no bytes are available, a null string ("empty") is returned. If the count specified is "f[lush]", the receive queue gets flushed. Active sense bytes are filtered by the interrupt handler (so your DX7 won't fill the with FE's). Usage: put RxMIDI(16) into myString ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 15:13:50 CDT From: C168403@UMCVMB Subject: Roland Juno-60, Roland JX-10 I am looking for an inexpensive way to MIDI retrofit my Roland Juno-60 and would appreciate any info. anyone might have on how I could do this. I am also wondering if anyone knows where I could find additional patches for my Roland JX-10? Thanks in advance. Anne Hardie End of EMUSIC-L Digest ***********************