EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 10, Issue 03 This issue's topics: a word to the wise... Advice on keyboard for music library Filters for the mixing board (2 messages) Light Synth live sequencing Magnetic Filings (4 messages) R-5 drum machine (2 messages) Roland D-110 questions (10 messages) Thanks, Cecila (3 messages) u110 sample player (5 messages) U20 Workstations (2 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 11:12:00 EST From: Chris Iverson Subject: Re: a word to the wise... Jeff Beer writes: " If you look at the history of the IBM PC and MIDI (both of which opened their domain up to interchangable components usage with hardware device not made by one company) they are some of the biggest success stories. So what some company should do is build their devices along a common exapandable architecture. Have a rack mount or keyboard operation orientation, have the ROM easily expanable, and in some cases, hardware modules retrofitable. The design of electronic musical instruments are at the point where they should be designed so an upgrade on the level of a DX-7 to a DX-7II should be doable by buying a hardware and software card." To which I respond: Hear, hear! And while we're at it, let's go one step more, and further emulate the IBM design by creating a master keyboard which can accept several cards from different manufacturers, allowing one keyboard to "be" a DX, or an M1, or whatever, all at the same time. An internal MIDI buss connecting a standardized keyboard controller (perhaps with interchangeable snap-in pitch- bend controllers, etc.), a standardized large screen diplay of maybe the same size as the Mac, and several slots for synth boards. This would allow the end user to buy one expensive master keyboard which could handle the job of many rack-mounted synth boxes, make the cost of adding a new module to only the cost of that module's circuitboard, and give the musician a standardized environment to work in (but still customizeable). A further advantage could be having controls built in to the master keyboard hard-wired to send certain midi messages such as midi volume, parameter changes, etc. It's a quarter-baked idea, and please feel free to shoot holes in it, but in a more perfect world it would work... -chris (the idealist) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 10:41:00 EST From: REYNOLDS@DEPAUW.BITNET Subject: Advice on keyboard for music library Need advioce in purchasing Elec. Keyboard for use in music library.... Current software includes Finale, Pro Composer, and other Music Theory software. Would DX 11 be sufficient, or should we consider a Casio product...HT-6000? Currently employing the Mac SE...Any advice? Thanks "Patrick Reynolds@Depauw U. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 13:16:14 EST From: Jeffrey R Kell Subject: Re: Filters for the mixing board Some low-tech solutions (usual disclaimers): (a) If at all possible, use separate feeds for lights than anything in the audio loop. Stick to shielded low-z Keehysically away from audio signal cables where possible. (b) Medium-tech: go to a power distribution system (again, preferably 2, using one for lights, one for audio gear). Opt for heavy shielding and pull all your grounds together to a common point. Take care in balancing phasing if you have to pull more than one hot phase. You can build a good distribution box in a short rack-mount cabinet with casters and appropriate cable reels fairly cheaply -- but best to find a good electrician friend. The inputs to the box can be wired to the modular-type plugs as used in circuit breakers so that you can typically remove a few of their breakers and plug right into the distribution. **BE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR OWN BREAKERS WITH THIS SETUP**. (c) Hi-tech: add on a front-end isolation transformer, use stage-ready Hubble connector hardware, track down the real culprit (is it the mixer? or a specific dimmer pack? only when the dimmer packs are near your foobar rack? etc. etc.). I have also seen some power-ready rackmount cabinets for your PA rackmount gear and power supply for the mixer. It provides some front-end filtering for the power feeds and might help if your problem is more serious than the above simple solutions. Hope that helps, but be sure you know what you're doing. Many people have been hurt or killed arbitrarily lifting grounds or using 2-prong adapters and the like (which will sometimes solve the problem, or sometimes fry you). One last thought... might want to modify or change your dimmer hardware. The cheap ones use simple SCRs which generate RF like crazy. Medium-cost packs use full Triacs (sort of 2 SCRs and an inverter, less noise). High cost packs add on filtering and smoothing caps to reduce RF further. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 09:04:00 CST From: Eddie Mikell Subject: Filters for the mixing board This is probably a common problem, but since I've only been setting up our band's mixing board for a few weeks, I've just come across it. Is there a remedy for cleaning the noise from our Cere Mult Control light show out of the mixing board? Usually most clubs supply two lines, but some don't, and the buzz of the light dimmers is getting on my nerves. Any suggestions on fixes, (home-brew and commercial) would be appreciated. Thanks! Eddie H. Mikell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 89 20:02:47 CST From: "John A. LaCour III" <$CSA361@LSUVM.BITNET> Subject: Light Synth No, we aren't talking weight. Last night I was at club and noticed odd looking graphics patterns on the screen that is usually showing the videos that go with the tunes. After awhile they had a screen that said 'Light Sythesiser bye Jeff Minter.' Anyone know anything about this? The graphics resembled those generated under apple basic on a 2+ and were in only a few colors. The patterns seemed mathematically generated, but it possibly may be the beat of the songs were used as input some how to create the patterns. However, it was not plainly obvious that this was some sort of graphic equalizer display. I looked in the DJ booth and saw no equipment that gave away what the setup was. I hope to go back and talk to some folks at this club and find out what the deal is. It was interesting, but nothing spectacular, especially since the resolution was only slightly better than the forementioned Apple's. John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 09:36:00 EST From: "John Young, Southern CT State Univ" Subject: live sequencing Help... I'd kind of like to throw this one out to everyone's expertise. I am looking for some advice, especially from people who do use live sequencing. I am looking for a good, reliable, and reasonably convenient method of doing live sequencing. As are most of us here, I am on a fairly restricted budget. I know we had this discussion before about hardware sequencers vs. computers for live work, but what I would like to hear about are some specific setups that you people use, how well they work, problems, limitations, approximate costs, etc. I currently have a Yamaha DX21 and an M1 (on which the sequencer, in its basic form, is not adequate for live work). I do not have a computer. So... what I am ultimately looking for are some suggestions. Thanks in advance... John Young YOUNG@CTSTATEU ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 13:01:00 EST From: Chris Iverson Subject: Magnetic Filings After listening to the tape a couple of times, I'm pretty impressed with the quality and scope of it. Here's some comments and questions to get the nettalk rolling: Nick, your cut surprised me. After reading your liner notes, I expected your contribution to sound more like John McIntyre's 'Meditations of the Monk', that is to say, I expected dissonance and conflict. 'Sudstern', on the other hand, was very listenable (woops, sorry about the inference there, John, but to be honest, I had a tough time grokking 'The Monk') and expressive. If you'll not be offended, it was a very nice piece of art. I guess that the 'nice' music you were referring to in the liner notes must have been the elevator- music style of new-age drivel that is appearing these days. Anyway, I liked your piece very much. A question: did you sequence all those pitch bends in the panpipe intro from a real-time performance, or was the pitch-bend data edited in? My current favorite on the tape is Jari Riitala's "Acid Rain Expected". That piece has style! It has a real good feel, especially considering the time signature of 9/4. A real toe-tapper... 'nuff for now... -chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 89 16:46:08 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: The Tape >Sudstern (Nick Rothwell) was particularly good. Aw, c'mon guys, I only did this to get some feedback and criticism: if you're only going to tell me how good it was, I'm not playing.. :-) To be serious, I'm glad you liked it, and also rather surprised - it was knocked together in under a week, and sounds embarrasingly cliched and tacky (the moog solo in the middle, fr'instance). But I'm proud of a few little bits of it. So, please folks, I'd love to hear your comments about what you liked, and what you didn't, and why. I'm happy to answer questions about the synth programming and arrangement (such as it is...) My copy of the tape arrived this morning, so I'll give it a listen over the weekend and generate some feedback. ...ah, some more mail: >it was a very nice piece of art. Intriguing. Could you expand on that? I don't see what makes my piece particularly "arty"...? >I guess that the 'nice' >music you were referring to in the liner notes must have been the elevator- >music style of new-age drivel that is appearing these days. Zigackly. I want very much to avoid the Californian style music-for-goldfish new-age which seems to be getting fashionable these days, which is why I tried to give my piece a bit of "grunt". Did I succeed? >A question: did you sequence all those pitch bends in >the panpipe intro from a real-time performance, or was the pitch-bend data >edited in? The pan-pipe bit was glued together from a handful of live takes. I recorded the stuff (pitchbend and all) realtime in chunks of a few bars, and then glued the phrases together by extending some of the trailing notes. I think I did a retake of one or two of the pitch-bends since the phrasing didn't seem right at first. Despite what Metlay might say, I *like* the Roland-style side-to-side pitch-bender... :-) The only stuff that's quantised and "sequenced" is the rhythms, which are deliberately mechanical. The rest was just played, hence the occasional shaky note. >Yes, definitely 5 stars for the time and effort Cecilia put in for the >tape Seconded. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 14:06:12 EET From: Jari Riitala Subject: Magnetic Filings Gee| I got my copy of The Tape yesterday morning. Air mail works after all| Underneath included are various comments and thoughts about the highlights of the filings on the tape. These are my own personal opinions and should not be considered neither serious nor thoroughly thought. Just what came to my mind. Joe McMahon's stuff: true 100% analog Moog/tape/razor beeps/blurps/squawks - I loooooove it| This stuff is like wine: 1)grows better when aging 2) too much makes you feel dizzy. And no useless computas needed| BTW, Joe, thanx for taking up the lists| Chris Iverson's "Waditis": lovely little piece of (semi-)commercial nature (read: steady beat). Must've done quite a lot of arranging prior to recording - it's not easy to work it out gradually when working with a 4-track; no fancy editing features of the sequencers. Really nice interplay between different parts. ---- comment from Chris ---- >My current favorite on the tape is Jari Riitala's "Acid Rain Expected". That >piece has style! It has a real good feel, especially considering the time >signature of 9/4. A real toe-tapper... ---- comment from me ---- Thank you, Chris. Good feel with everything quantized..? Hey, man, I am just a frustrated funk band bassist noodling aimlessly with computer music (read: frustrated -> can't play sick enough stuff in the band -> 9/4... ; funk band -> never forget dancin' beat -> bouncing toes?). Glad you liked it. Nick (no need to add Rothwell, we all know him, don't we?): Besides the most enviable setup this fella has *taste*| The mood sure comes through. Meditations of the Monk & Ragas: 2 heavy stuff 4 me - sorry| The most-in effect: rumble That's all for now. Let's hear it for Cecilia - HOORAY| - JARI ------- this message was authored by ------------------------------- Jari Riitala now: t6m-riit@mammutti.utu.fi soon: jriitala@kontu.utu.fi -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 21:14:03 EST From: Cecilia Tan Subject: Tape comments (first, Thanks to Joe for taking over the list!) Ah, I know you are all hanging on waiting to hear what I've got to say about the Tape since I'm the one that's been listening to it for a number of months already (btw, I'm glad to know the airmail tapes arrived with Jari and Nick) but I haven't really given it heavy critical thought. All of the pieces stuck in my head at one time or another. Some for their melodies, some for their timbres, some for their moods. But some specifics: TOTENTANZ Meditations of the Monk--the kind of music I would make if I could (read: if I had weird enough friends). John, did you say this was written to accompany a slide show? What were the slides of? I'd like to hear more, too... next year? DIGITIZED HORSES I wish I had the equipment (not to mention time) to do some good "found music" pieces. The sound of an Imagewriter was never so pleasant. Really good mix of timbres, here, too. I some- times hear this one when I am drifting off to sleep. Mantripp and Gallant--RAFT As I said in the liner notes, I didn't find this depressing at all. Every time I listen to it I find more parts to listen to, too. It deserves its length and has motion throughout. (P.S.--David, mail me about getting your copy!) Nick Rothwell SUDSTERN-- I hear the Jarre influence, here, subtly. Pleasant without being saccharine, eh? There's a "grunt" here Nick, although that's not the word I would have chosen. "Edge" maybe. One of my favorites. Jari Riitala ACID RAIN EXPECTED-- this is in 9/4? I was totally oblivious to that fact. I just thought it was really good for toe tapping. Joe McMahon THIRD RAIL and LIQUID CRYSTALS--this is great stuff. Is it old enough to say "classic?" It's endured the time very well (unlike, say, some of the old Throbbing Gristle I have) and is also imminently listenable. Rumble. More later, dudes. -ctan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 11:22:56 EST From: Andy Silverman Subject: Roland R-5, Drum synths in general Hey y'all. My first post. I just picked up a Roland R-5 drum box a little while ago to use as a MIDI sound expander for the rather cheesy sounds of my Yamaha PTX-8 drum kit. Anyone out there have any experience with this box, anything of interest to note about it? So far it seems really nice... Andy Silverman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 89 11:13:00 EDT From: "Sample this...!" Subject: re: R-5 drum machine We've been using an R-5 on stage since August, sequenced by an MC-500. I've been very impressed by the sound ... if I had the money to spend I'd have one for my home set-up. I can't tell you anything more about the unit, other than the sound ... and you already know it sounds good ... -brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 15:56:00 EST From: "Daniel J. Graham" Subject: Roland D-110 questions Well, after having it for ten weeks, I finally got around to trying out my new D-110 module. I know, it's a sin to let it sit fallow that long, but I had some other pressing business and it just got pushed to the back burner several times. Now that I'm using it...or trying to use it, I have some questions that I hope someone out there can answer. I've given up on the manual, it seems to speak some language other than English. I sort of (very sort of) understand Roland's tone/timber system but sure wish someone could explain it in terms that make sense. I seem to have access to 128 distinct patches or, as I would call them, voices. There are two banks, A and B. I assume C is for a ROM card. Each bank has 64 patches, (am I saying that right?). Have I discovered the extent of the available voices, or are there more lurking someplace that I haven't found yet? (I have found the rythem parts on MIDI channel 10.) Is a patch synonymous with a timbre? I haven't found in the lousy book how to do wither a key transpose, or how to assign a specific part to one of the separate audio output jacks...any thoughts? I sure appreciate any help I can get on this unit...and I thought the D-50 was complicated... Dan Graham graham@drcvax.af.mil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 15:44:08 PST From: Dave Hayes Subject: Re: Roland D-110 questions Yeah...ain't japanenglish wonderful? ;P I can try and answer your questions...Yes C is for ROM CARD. A bit of advice...IGNORE TIMBERS. I never use them. What I use is the patches. Each patch is a particular configuration of 8 parts plus the rhythm part. Each part can run one tone from any tone bank and a "tone" is your basic sound (piano, brass, etc.). Now for each part you can edit the PART data (MIDI channel, PAN, Volume, Key Limit, etc.) or the TIMBRE data (Key Transpose, Output Assign, Fine Tuning etc.). You edit the part data by pressing the PART key and the timbre data for a given part by selecting that part and pressing the TIMBRE key followed by the EDIT key. Oh...(i forgot)...use the TIMBRE then EDIT mode to select the actual tone you wi sh to use for whichever part. -Dave dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 89 06:58:39 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Roland D-110 questions >I seem to have access to 128 distinct patches or, as I would call them, >voices. Nope, there are 256, in 4 banks of 64. The banks are called "a", "b", "i/c" and "r" (the lower case is important). "a" and "b" are ROM based tones, "i/c" is RAM (or card, depending on context). "r" is a further set of ROM-based tones which are all rather drum-like. > There are two banks, A and B. Ah, now, these are the timbre banks, A and B. The voice organisation of the D-110 is based around TIMBRES and PATCHES. These listen for MIDI program change messages on various channels. If you change a PATCH, then the entire machine reconfigures itself to give you a set of 8 virtual instruments listening to different key ranges or channels, with different transposition settings, output assignment and so on. (the rhythm set-up stays static, however.) If you send a program change on a channel being used by one of these virtual instruments, then that kicks in a TIMBRE. Since you have 256 possible tones, and only 128 MIDI programs, the timbres serve as a mapping from the latter to the former. Timbres also carry some other information like pitch-bend amount and possibly output assignment, I can't remember. >Have I discovered the >extent of the available voices, or are there more lurking someplace that I >haven't found yet? (I have found the rythem parts on MIDI channel 10.) You probably haven't heard the "i" bank of tones yet. The great strength of the D-110 (and the main reason I bought it) is that the rhythm section is totally programmable. You can create your own rhythm sounds and assign them to keys on the rhythm channel with different pan and output assignments. >Is a patch synonymous with a timbre? No, see above. >I haven't found in the lousy book how to do wither a key transpose, or how >to assign a specific part to one of the separate audio output jacks...any >thoughts? You can set this up for each of the instruments in the PATCH. It's possible that the TIMBREs carry this information as well, so that program changes sent to the instrument change the output assignment and so on. But, I don't remember whether this is the case. I think that TIMBREs carry panpot settings, but the separate output settings of the PATCH override these. But I could be remembering that wrongly. >I sure appreciate any help I can get on this unit...and I thought the D-50 >was complicated... Drop me a line if you want some more details (after all, I have written an editor/librarian for the damn beast... :-)) - our machines here are a little broken at the moment, so I can't refer to things easily. >Dan Graham Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 12:14:00 EST From: "Daniel J. Graham" Subject: More D-110 I tried to send this to Nick directly, but I can't get there from here...I'm not using domain server software yet and the node isn't in my host tables. So, Here goes; read on only if you are into the Roland D-110, otherwise you might be bored. . . . Hi Nick, Thanks for your information on the D-110. I'm slowly getting used to the machine, but it takes awhile. I am pretty comfortable with using the a and b banks and the rythem part. You mentioned an i/c bank. How do I get to that? I thought that was only active if I put a ROM card in. Are there really 64 additional tones in a RAM memory I haven't found yet? I'd just rely on the book, but my vision is poor enough so I can't read it very easily. It makes reading the lcd display on the 110 hard too, but my wife helps me with that. She refuses to try to wade through the book, though. I can hardly blame her, it's probably one of the worst manuals I've ever seen. The rythem sounds are nice, but I don't see how they are really useful. Suppose I want to do a rapid tom-tom beat. Since there is only one note per particular sound, I can't "roll" between two n otes to make a fast sound. I have to slow down my sequencer to almost nothing, repeat it as fast as I can with one key, then speed the sequencer up again. This makes for a rather irregular beat. I know a drum machine is better, but I was hoping to get more out of the D-110's rythem section. Am I just not using it correctly. (I am a novice, after all.) One more thing: Can I do a keyboard split by messing with the key ranges of two different parts and playing them on the same MIDI channel, say part 1 limited to below C3 and part two from C3 up, with one being a bass and two being a sax? Thanks a lot for your answers. I do appreciate them. Dan Graham ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 15:25:32 EST From: Jon Subject: Re: More D-110 Hi- In response to questions regarding the Roland D-110- The rhythm sounds (back 'r') are spread out among a 5+ octave keyboard range on Midi Channel 10. I am not sure what you meant by a tom-tom roll, but, I do believe that one of the 'jam loop' samples includes a very fast tom-tom roll (not sure- but if memory serves- ). SO, since all of the drum samples are on Midi Channel 10, you can play a drum sequence into your sequencer w/o a problem. Also, the user is able to redefine any key in the rhythm set-up, so you would be able to, say, set up an octave of tuned tom-toms for that ultimate fill-in (due to the fact that you can also stick sounds from banks 'a' and 'b' in there - VERY usefull) I own a D-10 which IS different from a D-110, so if I'm not being too clear, I apologize. But, I will try to answer any further questions that you have. BTW, the D-110 is a very powerful and versatile unit- but it's also a beast. Chances are, though, that you'll grow to like it. -Jon Subject: re: D-110 In response to Brian's questions regarding D-110 sounds. I own a D-10 (D-110 w/keyboard) and am very pleased with it. Admittedly, the sounds, in general, are not the 'top notch' ones you will find on the M1, but the key point is that it is VERY flexable! It IS the little brother of the D50 as it uses the same technology (L/A). But, there are many differences: The D110 has a 'rhythm section' full of 65 editable drum samples, 32voice polyphony (max), 9-part multi-tibral (8+rhythm), and built-in reverb & delay (8 total). Roland did not include the much-needed EQ and other effects that made the D50 sound so sweet- but, then again, you can pick up a D110 for $650-$700 these days... Honestly, I think it has the best price/performance ratio of any module around. I know it makes my songs sound original and DEFINATELY demo-tape quality. I say, check it out. -Jon -A happy D-10 owner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 15:44:00 EST From: Mario Vergona Subject: D-110 stuff hi, There seems to be a lot of talk about the D-110 and its mis-understandable manual, I just came across this item which may be of interest to some: Nov 89 issue of KEYBOARD magazine D-110 VHS INSTRUCTION VIDEO, $29.95 Ken Navarrow Navarrophonic Productions 5852 Oso Ave Woodland Hills, Ca 91367 The ad also says to call 1-818-992-5392 for additional information. Toll free orders only 1-800-666-5563. 2 day c.o.d. delivery. I cannnot vouch for this item, but I can say that I have ordered sounds from him and found them to be good. m p.s. does anyone out there own a U-20? If so, what types of sound cards does it accept? also what types of PCM cards? Are these cards in development? (Which means we should all live so long as to see them) or does the machine accept D50/S50 stuff? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 15:20:00 EDT From: "Sample this...!" Subject: re: D-110 Sorry about the blank message. I exceeded my disk quota trying to write a temporary mail file, and when I quit the header was sent without the message. Reindeer Effect ... anyway - All this talk of D-110's has got me wondering ... what does this thing really sound like? I'm imagining a little brother to the D-50 with that little-bro sound (like TX81Z vs. the good ol' DX7). How much polyphony? Does it have effects like the D-50 (with all the inherent noise)? curious as always, -brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 15:58:37 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: More D-110 You mentioned an i/c bank. How do I get to >that? I thought that was only active if I put a ROM card in. Are there >really 64 additional tones in a RAM memory I haven't found yet? It sounds like you are using the Timbre banks, A and B. The initial factory set-up has the timbres mapping to their corresponding tones, so A-11 -> a01, A-12 -> a02 all the way to A-88 -> a64. Similarly for the B's. You'll have to delve another level down to change the TONE assignments. I haven't touched the TIMBRE stuff at all, but just lay out complete patches in terms of tones. Remember - you're looking for 256 different sounds in a plain D-110. Adding the external card complicates matters, since then patches selected from the card will refer implicitly to tones from the card as well (hence the "I/C" notation above). I don't remember if timbres can be stored on card as well. >it's probably one of the worst manuals I've ever seen. Try the Oberheim Cyclone one sometime... I find the D-110 manual is fine if you have a feel for how the machine works to start with - I use the manual as a reference when setting things up. However, I did have to work through the System Exclusive details in the back to figure out what was going on in the first place. The manual has some checquerboard pictures showing how program changes affect the machine state - these may help... Since there is only one note >per particular sound, I can't "roll" between two n otes to make a fast >sound. Yes you can. You can assign a percussion sound to as many keys as you like, with different output levels, assignments and so on. However, sounds will play back at a pitch determined by that key, so that tuned sounds will transpose. If you want to program a new sound into the rhythm section, you'll have to make sure it plays back at a constant pitch regardless of which key you hit (WG KeyFollow=0 is the magic incantation you want). The built-in rhythm tones are all like this. I tend to associate single tambourine sounds and so on with two consecutive keys, panned to outputs 1 and 2, for stereo percussion effects (check out my piece on the EMUSIC tape for a nausiating example). >One more thing: Can I do a keyboard split by messing with the key ranges >of two different parts and playing them on the same MIDI channel, say part >1 limited to below C3 and part two from C3 up, with one being a bass and >two being a sax? Yup. You can set this up in a complete patch. The timbres don't carry Lo/Hi information (he says, quickly checking with his editor program), so I guess that splits (like MIDI channels) are permanently tied to that patch. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 23:17:34 CST From: Jason Keeler Subject: Re: D-110 stuff The U-20 is a very awesome machine to say the least! Currently, it uses PCM cards originally developed for the U-110. I believe Roland will be releasing new cards for it shortly. As for the program cards, I imagine it just uses the standard M-256 cards (or whatever they are called). A friend of mine owns a U-20; he uses it all the time. In fact, he is constantly cutting down my M1 over the darn thing. The sounds are incredibly clean and the price is so cheap! If it had only been released 1yr ago..... ...Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 13:57:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: Thanks, Cecila Thanks, Cecila, for the nice job you did with the compilation tape. But what is the piece at the end of side two after the ragas? John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 17:26:26 EST From: Dan Bornstein Subject: Re: Thanks, Cecila Yes, definitely 5 stars for the time and effort Cecilia put in for the tape (and personal delivery in my case). After listening to it twice I'm still having trouble deciding my favorite--there's jsut soooo many different styles, etc. etc. ... >From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET > >But what is the piece at the end of side two after the ragas? It's actually a piece I did which I guess didn't fit in and Cecilia forgot (decided not to?) re-erase. -dan Bitnet: danfuzz@brownvm Internet: danfuzz@brownvm.brown.edu AppleTalk: Find me a long enough cable and I'll see what we can do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 20:57:40 EST From: Cecilia Tan Subject: Re: Thanks, Cecila Danfuzz is right, I tried to fit another piece of his on at the end of side 2. And I forgot to take it off. (It fits on a 100 minute tape!) Sorry! ctan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 11:22:42 EST From: "AED-FD Homesh R. Lalbahadur" Subject: u110 sample player To anyone: I recently saw the u110 on sale for $500. Does anyone have any comments on the pros and cons of this unit (other than it's not capable of sampling). How does it measure up to other samplers ? Holmes L ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 12:12:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: u110 sample player DON'T BUY IT! IT SOUNDS LIKE SH*T! IT'S NOISY AS HELL AND THEY'RE TRYING TO RIP YOU OFF! AAAHHHRRGGGGHHH! *pant, pant, pant* Sorry. Allow me to back up a bit. The U110 is getting blown out for incredible prices these days because it has an incredible amount of output noise in its guts. The PCM samples themselves are apparently fine (the cards work well in the U-20, from what I hear...any U-20 owners or users care to comment?), but the sample playback system in the 110 really stank; a major flub for Roland's quality control people, the first I can remember in years and years. It's not even of serious demo quality, and forget putting it on a serious project. The U-20 and the rackmount U-220 use a new (fixed, heh) smaple playback system that's nice and clean with lots of dynamic range and clarity; very pleasing. In fact, I'm in a quandary; all of my instincts tell me I should get a board that allows a good deal of programmability so that I can customize my sounds, but the U-20 just sounds so good it's obscene. Does anyone know how much control the user has? Effects and MIDI setups only? Envelopes? Anything? It's on my "get it at Rogue when it's not hip any more" list right now, but it won't even stay there if I can't rip its sounds up and make them ugly-- er, sorry. Make them MINE, I mean. |-> metlay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 13:52:00 EST From: "Sample this...!" Subject: RE: u110 sample player Is the U-220 out yet? I've been hearing that it wouldn't be available until January/February timeframe, but, of course, this is the great white north ... I say if Metlay's coming that close to blessing the thing, that's good enough for me. I'm also curious, however, about the programmability ... tweaking is my favourite! -brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 12:46:00 PST From: Willis Dair Subject: RE: u110 sample player Yep, yep, I'll admit, I HAD a U-110 at one point. I felt ripped off. It was a piece of guano. The samples are OK, but the way it is played back is real noisy. I figured out the diagnostic sequence ( Roland has a bunch of "press 2 buttons at the same time and power on" sequences in their boxes), and tweaked the pots on the board inside and could not get it quiet. I would have to agree, it is really not even demo quality. I finally traded it in. To find out, somebody actually bought it from music store that made the trade. The U-20 is great compared to the U-110. Yes, it does have two ROM card slots that receive the U-110 cards. There are seven out there now. I have heard rumors that they are doing more, but have not heard for certain. The U-110 could only address 32 cards (each card was number). I have not heard if that limit is still in the U-20. They are numbered so that you can stick any card into any slot on the U-110 and still address the samples. The U-20 does have some primitive parameters you can futs with. The structure of the U-20 is very similar to the D-110. Each patch contains the sounds for 6 instruments and a rhythm track. In the patch you can adjust the chorusing and reverb. The individual timbres (Roland terminology) have parameters for LFO and a primitive attack-decay-sustain curve you can fiddle with. Actually, there are a couple of analog type waves (square, sine) that you can use as part of a timbre and then adjust the envelop to produce analog type synth sounds. There are a couple of stock analog sounds provided from the out of the box unit. Something I did not investigate ( I don'town the U-20, my friend does) is that the U-110 could interpret poly aftertouch; don't know if the U-20 does. There is a channel aftertouch parameter in the timbres you can fiddle with. I think it only does modulation (primitive vibrato). This talk about this U-220 is intriquing. The U-20 is nice box, but I don't really need another device with 61 black and white keys. Does anyone know if they are only going to put 2 ROM card slots or are they going to put 4 like the U-110? Oh, yeah speaking of slots there is a slot for a RAM card on the U-20 so that you can save your patches to the RAM card. Anyway, I'll be keeping my eyes out for the U-220. Should be nice. Willis Dair Academic Computing Center Santa Clara University ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 18:08:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: u110 sample player METLAY'S SYNTH BUYING MASTER CLASS SELF-TEST #1 The following is an excerpt from a recent post to EMUSIC-L. It was almost assuredly made in jest, but there are those on the List who might not recognize it as such. For ten points, identify both of the glaring logical errors contained in the excerpt. Send all responses via Email to metlay@pittvms.BITNET. You have three minutes. Begin at once. >Is the U-220 out yet? I've been hearing that it wouldn't be available until >January/February timeframe, but, of course, this is the great white north ... I >say if Metlay's coming that close to blessing the thing, that's good enough for >me. I'm also curious, however, about the programmability ... tweaking is my >favourite! > >-brian (Kindest regards and apologies in advance to Brian, for the use of his post.) metlay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 05:58:07 EST From: uucp@NLUUG.NL Subject: Re: U20 As to ROM-cards: the U20 has only two slots for them, whereas the U110 accepts four of thouse cards. Remarkable also that the U20 uses a different synthesising technique: RS-PCM (Resynthesized Pulse Code Modulation). The U110 uses DC-PCM (Different scale Companding Pulse Code Modulations). I wonder if this has anything to do with noise ;-). Maybe it's just another marketing trick. +-------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ | Ad Aerts | It's a shame each of my messages sees more of | | AERTS@HUTRUU52.BITNET | the world than I ever will... | | aerts@media00.uucp | | +-------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 08:20:00 EST From: Mario Vergona Subject: Workstations hi, Workstations, even the now 425 dollar yamaha one (I know it is going out of production and that it is just an overblown TX81z, but its still nice) (no, I do not own one) provide people with a an easy way of reach ing the vision of their music quickly, easily and affordably. How many times will a person sit at the keyboard, just doodling around and hear something. Well, it may not be just right, so add a little reverb, or chours or delay. Maybe layer a bass patch in or something. Now it sounds good. Hmmmm, lets record it, switch on the internal awquencer. And its threr. Otherwise the moment would have been lost hooking up the cables, computer and whatnot. The mood is not too broken by switching on the various effects and sequencer while seated at the keyboard. Just you and your headphones. Ever play something, mean to record/write it down then forget it all together when you get around to it??? The sequencer keeps it for you. A second point: as far as sounding the same as everyone else, isn't that the fault of the musician who choses to use the various patches in the exact same way that they hear them on records? It is the musician striving to sound the same as everyone else that causes the sameness. Its a question of style and taste, it is not the fact that you buy a particular keyboard. Do Mozart and Bach sound the same even though they are played on the same piano?? Do all pianist sound the same because they play pianos??? Nope, its the person striving for sameness that results in the dullness that many complain about. m ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 17:17:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: Workstations Well spoken, Mario! I think your arguments are well-reasoned; however, not all of us have the bucks to be able to set up a "serious" studio and still have enough left over for a workstation to putz around on. If I had the choice and the cash, I'd almost always opt for adding to my main setup. And besides, I'm handy enough with pencil and score paper to get ideas that suddenly pop into my head down before they're lost, usually. |-> As for the "sameness:" Nobody ever willfully decides to be the same as everyone else. We only decide that a piece of new technology "suits our needs," either because the ads say so or because it's the truth. The decision to make something fresh and new often translates, in our trendy society, into doing the same fresh, new stuff that everyone else is into this week. Workstations make this even easier: the tools are all right there, and their scope of control is usually limited to the same narrow set of parameters that everyone else is using. For example, if we were to both own V50s, we could both decide to add reverb to a sound, and we'd end up choosing from the limited types of reverb in the V50. But if we arrive at this decision, and you reach for an SPX90II while I reach for my LXP-1.... See what I'm getting at? The will to be different is constrained by technology whether we admit it or not. Sure, Chopin and Mozart don't sound alike on the piano, but compare either to John Cage's stuff with bolts on the strings and Seth Justman hammering a naked CP80 soundboard to death and they'll sound alike by comparison! |-> metlay ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************