EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 11, Number 1 Today's Topics: DAT and timecode (2 messages) Sys-ex spec for Quadraverb? (7 messages) MacDrums Any sampler users? Influences (3 messages) The tape, and tapes in general (2 messages) Buying a keyboard The Mellotron (3 messages) The Prophet VS Piano substitutes (4 messages) Bass sound? Early electronics - singing machines Effects (7 messages) Mail problems and policies (2 messages) VFX questions Vangelis (5 messages) GFMUSIC? R-5/R-8 drum rolls? The MicroWave rears its head... (2 messages) Analog vs. Digital (2 messages) Super-JX/MKS-70 MIDI spec comments (2 messages) Emulator III (2 messages) U-20 problem (2 messages) Turtle Beach Software (3 messages) Amiga users? (2 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 10:27:40 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: DAT and timecode Just a quicky - do DAT recorders have a facility for striping with timecode? I'd like to think about recording some day (in the same sort of style that Metlay has described), and rather than go for 8-track (& a bigger more expensive desk), I could presumably go for twin-DAT players or something. But, I'd need a way of locking my sequencer to the tapes on playback... Or should I think about upgrading to a 16/8/2 desk and multitrack? Disclaimer - this is probably a year or two away yet... Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 14:20:49 -0500 From: Brian Adamson Subject: Re: DAT and timecode Nick, There is guard band space in the DAT format written to tape which could be used for recording time code information separately from the quality sound tracks (2 (stereo)) I don't know which, if any, manufacturers have implemented this feature as of yet. Brian Adamson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:54:52 EET From: Jari Riitala Subject: Quadraverb sysex $I already sent this message once but it didn't seems to appear on the list so here it comes again - hopefully not for the second time|# ---------------- I recently bought me a Quadraverb (I love that Lezlie|) and it has become evitable I'm going to need an (editor/)librarian to ping-pong the patches here and there and everywhere as John Lennon (or was it Paul?) once stated. Now the question is: 1) Anybody know about the format of the bulk dump data (all patches / less that all patches)? Is there a description somewhere on the net? 2) Anybody already written this program for PD? Did you write one for yours, Nick? (s**t, you've got a Mac and you talk c) Jari PS. Nick, thanks for the kind words about my "drumming". I hate to believe it but quantization makes miracles. Of course if I had pads and a drummer... well, that's a goddam wish. I bought with a friend just the other day this funky little Yamaha toy - it has 4 (too small) pads, horrible internal sounds and little drums stix included but it talks MIDI with 15 velocities (too coarse and it forgets everything when you turn it off) so let's see when I get to whack it. ------- this message was authored by ------------------------------- Jari Riitala now: t6m-riit@mammutti.utu.fi soon: jriitala@kontu.utu.fi -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:07:00 EST From: "b.klassen" Subject: RE: Quadraverb sysex >From: Jari Riitala >Subject: Quadraverb sysex > >I recently bought me a Quadraverb (I love that Lezlie|) and it has become ^^^^^^^ WHA? Are you talking about a Leslie effect? Like a real Leslie effect, with slowing down and speeding up and everything? I saw a unit last summer that did the trick to a "t", but was selling for $1100 (cdn)! Being a Hammond player from way back (used to cart around a "chopped" C-3 and a 147 Leslie ... talk about back problems) I've never been satisfied with any sythn or sampled organ sound, mainly because of the lack of a true Leslie effect. Does this Quadraverb has such a thing, or am I barking up an empty tree? brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 09:53:49 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: Quadraverb sysex Dec 1, 89 11:54 am You can get the Quadraverb sysex description (not an official Alesis document, but but the result of someone's sleuthing) via anonymous FTP from ucsd.edu, somewhere in a directory called midi. If you can't FTP, send me a note and I'll mail it to you. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 17:01:08 EET From: Jari Riitala Subject: Re: Quadraverb sysex 1 Dec 89 09:53:49 MDT from On Fri, 1 Dec 89 09:53:49 MDT Adam Schabtach said: >You can get the Quadraverb sysex description (not an official Alesis document, >but but the result of someone's sleuthing) via anonymous FTP from ucsd.edu, >somewhere in a directory called midi. If you can't FTP, send me a note and >I'll mail it to you. > >--Adam Thanks for the info, Adam| I tried to ftp the file, even found one at uscd.edu/midi/doc/quadraverb-sysex.Z but when I transferred it here, it was not readable. Is the .Z some compression method or what? Might be better off if you'd care to email me the file (which I understand you have successfully and readably retrieved), maybe directly to me, or if there's enough interest on the list then... Hope to hear from you Jari ------- this message was authored by ------------------------------- Jari Riitala still: t6m-riit@mammutti.utu.fi also: jriitala@kontu.utu.fi *** Electric bass is more important than any synth| (flames..) *** -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 14:01:07 EET From: Jari Riitala Subject: RE: Quadraverb sysex On Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:07:00 EST b.klassen said: >>I recently bought me a Quadraverb (I love that Lezlie|) and it has become > ^^^^^^^ >WHA? Are you talking about a Leslie effect? Like a real Leslie effect, with >slowing down and speeding up and everything? I saw a unit last summer that did Well, of course it ain't *real* but it sure is a damn good imitation (IMHO)| You *do* have switches to "turn on the rotor" and to "control chorus/tremolo" (the speed of the rotor). As far as I can remember, the two speeds are fixed but just like in the real washing machine it slows down and speeds up gradually when changing the speed. The effect is stereo; you can control the stereo separation and the amount of treble at least. In addition to this you can have some reverb & delay & EQ (maybe one of them can be used in the lezlie confi- guration - can't remember). The lezlie (that's how they spell it at Alesis - strange|) switches are a bit tricky to use on the Quadra only (under the same button) but since Quadra can receive and use MIDI controller data (as defined by the user), you can switch them on the synth. I made a patch where I can swith the motor on/off from the data slider of my DX7 and control the speed with the mod wheel (which isn't much use in an organ patch otherwise). Try it| >brian Jari '------ this message was authored by ------------------------------- Jari Riitala still: t6m-riit@mammutti.utu.fi also: jriitala@kontu.utu.fi *** Electric bass is more important than any synth| (flames..) *** -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 15:11:00 EDT From: "Whatever..." Subject: Re: Quadraverb sysex HEY! GET ME OFF THIS *&@&!% THING! I've tried to sign off, but it won't let me...it's like a bad dream! I can't take it anymore AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PLEASE! I break out in sweats in the middle of the night not being able to get the words "65 new messages" out of my mind. I can't think! PLEASE STOP!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 14:20:13 MDT From: schabtac@STOUT.UCAR.EDU Subject: Re: Quadraverb sysex Dec 4, 89 5:01 pm > ... it was not readable. Is the .Z some compression > method or what? Yes, the unix utility 'compress' squashes a file and adds a .Z to its filename. If you're on a unix machine, use 'uncompress' to un-.Z it. > Might be better off if you'd care to email me the file (which I understand you > have successfully and readably retrieved), maybe directly to me, or if there's > enough interest on the list then... If you can't uncompress it, mail to me directly and I'll send it to you. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 09:34:29 EST From: Tony D'Amato Subject: Re: From a Lonely MacUser... On Thu, 30 Nov 89 13:29:00 EST said: >Does ANYBODY know ANYTHING about MacDrums? I really gotta know... > > With Thanks... > > Patrick Reynolds (somewhere in the Midwest) I seem to recall reading a Keyboard magazine review of MacDrums. The article said it was not that good. The impression was that it did a fair job at best (using the sound output of the Mac to simulate a Drum Machine). I gather from it that you might be best to shop around. Anyone else with info? From a new Mac MIDI person... |========================================================================| | Tony D'Amato | | | Computer Systems Engineer | "Deesclaimer! I don't neeed no | | Old Dominion University | steenkin' deesclaimer!" | | E-Mail: NAD100T@ODUVM.BITNET | | | -or- nad100t@oduvm.cc.odu.edu | -- with apologies to Mel Brooks | |========================================================================| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 09:49:13 EST From: David Mantripp Subject: Sampling There seems to be very little discussion of sampling on EMUSIC-D. Does this mean people don't like it ? Or don't do it ? I'm convinced that the potential of sampling has been under estimated. All the wunder-synths currently selling like hotcakes (M1, D50, VFX, etc) are sample-based. There are no sound sources within these instruments that you cannot, in theory, create on any reasonable sampler. Ok, so it takes work, but there's no satisfaction to my mind in playing factory presets. Look at, for example, the K1 - it is VERY limited when you really get to grips with it. A secondhand Mirage would probably give you longer lasting satisfaction. Many people equate sampling with "oh, wow, listen to that great piano sound" - this is as much a blind alley as the eternal search for the perfect synth piano patch - you want a piano sound ? Play a piano! Sampling can incredibly expand the usefulness of those old analogue synths. And try grafting a sustained synth "strings" patch onto a cello attack sample...then reverse it...then modulate it... we're already getting way beyond what the D50 for example can do. (Ok, so quality levels may not be quite as high - so what...if you need that level of quality then you're probably a professional). It's really fun too - far more than 80's synths, you define the rules. I've heard just about every synth of note (haha) released this decade - the only one which has shouted BUY ME to my ears is the VFX - however, I can't, as a low key semi-pro, justify the 1300 pounds sterling it would cost me. It does give me further ideas for sampling though - and I'm beginning to want a few more memory blocks for my Prophet, and maybe Digidesign Softsynth. But the ultimate hook-up must be Sequential (RIP) P-2000 & P-VS...with the VS being able to receive sample dumps from the 2000, and the 2000 able to resample the result - well I think I'll leave the rest up to you. You can buy the pair secondhand for the price of a VFX! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 09:50:59 EST From: David Mantripp Subject: Influences... This is aimed at kicking off some sort of discussion of music as opposed to hardware (not that I'm opposed to discussing hardware!). I'd be interested to find out just what records etc people think have been notable for use of electronic instruments. This doesn't mean "what is your favourite synth LP" - I feel that it is about as relevant to refer to, say, a Michael Garrison LP as a synth album as it is to call a Led Zep one a guitar album - the music matters, not the source. However, I _am_ talking about using electronic instruments. To illustrate, I'd say that one of the most notable (if totally underated) examples is "Trans" by Neil Young. This blends blatant electronic sounds with NY's traditional guitar sound, to great effect, emphasising the various subject matters of the songs. Another is "And close as this" by Peter Hammill - almost entirely MIDI synth, but sounding like some undiscovered array of "real" instruments. I'm not ruling out the classic synth albums - things like Tangerine Dream's "Phaedra", Vangelis's "See You Later", but what really impresses me is really imaginative, sort of displaced use of electronically-created textures. I suppose _the_ all time great is Eno's "Another Green World"... but I'm sure there are others that I've yet to discover. Offers ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:58:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: Influences... Fun wow! Okay, how about "Macalla" by Clannad, anything by Ultravox in the "We're all going to die so we may as well have fun doing it" period, i.e. "Vienna," "Rage in Eden," "Quartet" and "Lament," anything at all, ever in the past twenty years, by Anthony Phillips (yum!), "Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe" (which is, IMHO, the album we've been waiting for since "Tormato"), Any early album by Jon Anderson, with or without Vangelis, anything by Gary Numan from the period between 1981 and 1986 (including "Dance," "I,Assassin," "Warriors," the excellent "Berserker," "White Noise," "The Fury," and "Strange Charm"), and if you want to get further outside, try "Listen Now!" by 801, "The Green Album" by Eddie Jobson and Zinc (which should be listened to at one sitting, in a dark room, at the loudest comfortable and safe level one can manage), anything by Group 87 but especially "A Career in Dada Processing," "Io" and "Continua" by Ian Tescee, "Mosiac" and "Bhakti Point" by Richard Burmer, "Deep Breakfast" by Ray Lynch, anything by Nash the Slash (but esp. "Dreams and Nightmares," "Children of the Night," "Decomposing," and "And You Thought You Were Normal"), and maybe even some of the stuff by that red-haired British bimbo with the weird voice, what's her name, I forget...well, she's not that important anyway. |-> metlay PS. And I didn't even mention myself on that list! Aren't you proud of me? |-> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 22:26:40 GMT From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" Subject: Influences >I'd be interested to find out just what records etc >people think have been notable for use of electronic instruments. For the odd one out: A Japanese guitar player called Kazumi Watanabe (quite well-known internationally, presumably some of you Jazz fans out there ought to know) makes extensive use of the guitar synthesiser (well, hardly surprising is it ? I bet he got all his gear free from Roland !) I saw him two years ago in a Jazz festival in Hong Kong when he supported Steve Gadd's "Gang", and man ! Really exhilating stuff ! He really knew about playing synths. A year ago Pat Mentheny was also up there doing a horror movie soundtrack with his sampled crys, crashes, thunder, telephone ring .... each on a fret of his guitar. Didn't knock me out though ... Patrick. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 09:53:50 EST From: "Rallen Jervis: The Nightflyer!" Subject: Tapes and copies. Two quick items: All the notes about sending a blank tape, reminded me that I wanted to ask what brand of blank tape (in this case, cassettes) did everyone prefer to use? I used to be a confirmed Memorex user, as I have some ten year old tapes that are still in great shape, but of late their quality seems to have gone downhill with more tapes locked up (won't turn) or that "seem" more prone to stretching. Sony seems to be competively priced, but I haven't used enough of them to make a comparison. Thoughts, anyone? Secondly, to the monitor: I received two copies of everything you sent except the note asking if I received two copies. My postmaster and I hope this means the problem is cleared up. {Lord only knows. I hope so too. - jm} --smooth sailing all... R.allen Jervis c78kck@irishmvs.bitnet Voyager@irishmvs.bitnet P.O.B. 743 Notre Dame,IN 46556-0743 "Blue blue rain in my soul..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 12:10:24 GMT From: Duy-Minh NHIEU Subject: tapes Sorry, does any one have Cicilia Tan's address, I just lost the address accidentally, Cicilia is the person that compile the tape contributed by several netters. (Sorry if I spell the name wrong). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 10:43:10 EST From: Mario Vergona Subject: Re: Buying a keyboard 1. I lean toward weighted keyboard. I TO FEEL THAT WEIGHTED KEYBOARDS ARE THE BEST, OTHERWISE YOU TEND TO 'LOSE' YOUR SENSE OF TOUCH FOR A REAL PIANO. 2. 76vs88 keys. THAT IS ASKING A BIT MUCH, BUT THERE ARE A FEW. ESPECIALLY THE KORG. YOU SHOULD REALLY CONSIDER GETTING BY WITH 61 KEYS. THE KORG SG-D1 (SAMPLED GRAND) IS PROBABLY THE BEST FOR YOU, IT REALLY FEELS LIKE A PIANO, HAS 76 KEYS, A FEW EFFECTS AND 2 OR 5 PIANO SOUNDS ON IT. YOU CAN THEN BUY AN EXPANSION BOX LIKE THE YAMAHA TX-81Z OR THE KAWAI K1M TO GET ALL THE EXTRA SOUNDS YOU WANT/NEED VIA THE MIDI PORTS. 3. Sound quality. How can you tell in most showrooms?!? MOST OF THE COMPANIES YOU HAVE NAMED HAVE VERY HIGH SOUND QUALITY, SO THIS ISN'T REALLY A CONCERN. IT'S WHAT SOUNDS GOOD TO YOU, NOT ANYONE ELSE SAYS. ADDITIONALLY, MOST OF THE KEYBOARDS YOU HAVE NAMED DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SYNTHISIZE THE SOUND OF A PIANO AS MUCH AS USE ACTUAL SAMPLES OF A PIANO, AGIN THE BEST EXAMPLE I HAVE HEARD IS THE KORG SG-D1. ALSO, TAKE ALONG YOUR OWN PAIR OF HEADPHONES AND PLUG THEM INTO THE KEYBOARD, THEN YOU WILL GET A REAL IDEA OF HOW IT SOUNDS WITHIN YOUR OWN ENVIRONMENT. 4. I'm particularly interested in information on the Kurzweil stuff. SO YOU SHOULD CALL THEM AND ASK FOR INFORMATION, OR GO TO AN AUTHORI DEALER THAT CAN GIVE YOU ALL THE INFO YOU NEED: NOTE CURRENTLY THE KRUZWELL 1000 IS SELLING FOR 1500. (BUT CHECK THE KORG SG-1D AND KAW K4 ALSO) 5. More sounds, bells, whistles, etc. They're fun- how much? I know it depends on my use. I'm not a professional (& I've been away from playing for 15 years). AGAIN, THE KRUEWELL 1000 HAS ALL THESE, BUT IT DOES NOT MATTER. NO MATTER WHAT KEYBOARD YOU BUY, AS LONG AS IT HAS MIDI IN AND OUT PORTS YOU CAN ADD ON LATER TO IT. 6. How about add-on capability. Is there an inherent advantage to some keyboards? SEE THE RESPONSE TO 5, AS LONG AS IT HAS MIDI ITS FINE. 7. How do I learn more? Are there good books? or is the market moving too fast for books? Magazines- which ones for these interests. THERE ARE PLENTY OF BOOKS: THE INS AND OUTS OF MIDI, MAKING MUSIC WITH MIDI, MIDI FOR THE MUSICIAN, BUT I REALLY SUGGEST YOU START READING SOME MAGAZINES, IN PARTICULAR KEYBOARD MAGAZINE. THIS MAG AZINE NOT ONLY DEALS WITH MIDI AND MUSICIANS BUT ALSO HAS A NUMBER OF INFORMATIVE LESSONS FOR ALL LEVELS OF KEYBOARD SKILLS AS WEL;L AS EXCELLENT ARTICLES ON MUSICIANSHIP IN GENERAL. AFTER YOU FEEL CONFORTABLE WITH IT, YOU COULD THEN TRY A FEW ISSUES OF ELECTRONIC MUSICIAN. 8. Price range? IT DEPENDS: WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SPEND? THERE IS AN EXCELLENT KEYBOAR CALLED THE KAWAI K4 WHICH HAS 61 WEIGHTED ACTION KEYS AND LOTS OF OF DIFFERENT SOUNDS (PLUS VERY GOOD PIANO SAMPLES) WHICH I FEEL WOUL BE AN IDEAL THING FOR YOU. IT SELLS FOR 1200 (IT ONLY JUST CAME OUT ON THE MARKET, ITS LIST IS 1400) THENB THERE IS THE KAWAI K1-II, THI HAS THE SAME BASIC SET UP, BUT THE SAMPLES ARE SUPPOSEDLY NOT AS GOO (I OWN A K1, WHICH DOES NOT HAVE THE BUILTIN SOUND PROCESSING (REVER CHOURS ETC) NOR THE BUILTIN DRUM MACHINES, THE ONE I AM RECOMMENDIN IS THE K1-II THAT HAS ALL THE NICE EXTRAS) THIS IS GOING FOR ABOUT 700. THE KRUSWELL IS, AS I SAID 1500 AND I BELIEVE IT IS GOING OUT OF PRODUCTION. 9. Built in speakers- need for, quality? I have a decent stereo. WHY? ALL KEYBOARDS HAVE A HEADPHONE JACK. NO MATTER HOW NICE THE BUILTIN SPEAKERS ARE THEY WILL NOT REALLY BE CLEAR IN ALL RANGES, THE HEADPHONES WILL, AND YES YOU CAN HOOK THINGS UP THROUGH YOUR STEREO. AND ANYWAY, SONY MAKES A SET OF 3" SPEAKERS THAT SELL FOR 25 AND PLUG INTO THE HEADPHONE JACK THAT ARE PRETTY GOOD. THEY DON'T EVEN NEED ANY BATTERIES. 10. Strategy: given the technology and price movement, does one buy all the capability one can afford, or spend a little less now and upgrade later? It's hard for me to judge what features I need as I don't have any clearly defined goals other than to "play it."- so maybe it isn't even fair to ask the question. ONE SHOULD GET WHAT ONE CAN AFFORD AND BE HAPPY WITH. I FELL IN LOVE WITH A KEYBOARD (THE KORG M1 WHICH HAS A BUILTIN 8 TRK SEQUENCER, DRUM MACHINE AND PROCESSING EFFECTS). WHEN I FOUND OUT THE PRICE, 2200 (IT IS NOW 1895) I LOOKED FOR SOMETHING MORE AFFORDABLE. I FOUND THE KAWAI K1 TO HAVE VERY GOOD SOUNDS, EASY AND INTERESTING EDITING OF THE SOUNDS, A WEIGHTED 61 KEY KEYBOARD AND A NICE PRICE. I THEN BOUGHT AN HARDWARE SEQUENCER. EVERYTHING WAS FINE AND VERY ENJOYABLE. I ONLY SOLD IT (THE K1) BECAUSE I WANTED THE INTERNAL PROCESSING AND DRUM MACHINE CAPABILITIES THAT THE K1-II WOULD GIVE ME. NOW THE K4 IS OUT AND, SINCE I NEVER BOUGH THE K1-II, I AM GOING TO BUY THAT INSTEAD. ADDITIONALLY, FOR ALL TH GRAET M1 FEATURES, I REALLY DID NOT LIKE THE M1 KEYBOARD FEEL AFTER THE EXECELLENT WEIGHTED FEEL OF THE KAWAI STUFF (NOTE: NOTHING FEEL AS CLOSE TO A PIANO AS THE KORG SG-D1) PLEASE CHECK OUT THE INFORMA ON THE K4 BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING ELSE. 11. What have I missed? Hope this isn't an overwhelming number of questions. Whenever I look into this kind of issue I tend to research it in endless detail.... :-) THE JOY OF PLAYING. YOU SHOULD JUST GET THE KEYBOARD FIRST, LEAN HOW IT WORKS, THEN GO INTO THE MIDI STUFF WHCIH WILL BE TOUCHED ON WITH IN THE OWNERS MANUALS OF THE KEYBOARD YOU BUY. THEN YOU GET OTHER BOOKS. (AS WELL AS READING KEYBOARD MAGAZINE FOR A FEW ISSUES, THEY ALSO PUT OUT SEVERAL VERY GOOD GUIDES FOR MIDI THAT ARE COLLECTION OF ARTICLES THAT APPEARED IN PREVIOUS ISSUES. ONE LAST THING: LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU END UP BUYING, I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW. M NOTE: NOT NOW, BUT IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL NEED A MIDI INTERFACE FOR YOUR COMPUTER, LET ME RECOMMEND THE VOYETRA MUSIC PACK, WHICH HAS THE MIDI BOARD CARD AND A BUILTON SOFTWARE PACKAGE FOR SEQUENCING AND SOUND LIBRARY MANAGMENT ALL A T A REASONABLE PRICE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:22:00 EST From: "b.klassen" Subject: RE: The Mellotron. What a truly wonderful instrument! Didn't the Mellotron use tape-loops to produce its sound? Those things were before my time, but I do remember Elton John using one on a number of tunes (I was in public school at the time, so my exposure to keyboards was limited to what I heard on AM radio). Didn't Wakeman use one as well? If anyone's interested, I saw one advertised in Toronto, supposedly in "working" condition, for $2000. Personally, I'd love to get my hands on some well-produced samples of the beast ... Speaking of tape-loops and whatnot, one of my favourite "keyboard" albums is Mark Isham's "Vapour Drawings", on Windham Hill. He uses a Prophet-5 (can I have one, PLEASE!), tape-loops, and plays some very tasty horns. There is also a drummer backing him, albeit sparsely. I'd call the keyboard work more like textures than anything else. Has anyone on the list used tape-loops to produce sounds. I'd like to know how it works. Couldn't it be reproduced with a sampler? curious, as always brian PS: anyone purchased anything from either Marion Systems or PS Systems? Both firms are out of California. I'm considering buying some upgrades for my sampler from them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 12:20:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: The Mellotron. What a truly wonderful instrument! Metlay puts on his historian hat: ahem. Brian, the Mellotron used tape STRIPS, with attacks as well as sustains recorded. The notes lasted up to eight seconds, with no looping, and sounds could be mixed just by (I love this!) shifting the tape head so it lay between tracks on the tape! The older ones were 3-track machines using (gack) 3/8" tape, and later models used 1/2" tape in quad or were converted to 2-track 1/4" tape. The tapes were springloaded and attached to a big rack like a bed frame. Press a key, and a tape head (yep, one per key!) came down and the tape was pulled across it. Lift your finger and sproing, the tape rewinds! Nifty, huh? Now, this is in opposition to the never-really marketed Birotron that Rick Wakeman used for a while and which he helped develop. It used loops on 8track cartridges (remember them?!), and was unpopular because it had no attack transients or funny variations from notes that got sproinged once too often. Those were the days. (By the way, $2000 is way too much, even for a working model with a ton of tape racks. Further, in my opinion sampling a Mellotron is pointless; like a piano, its sounds DO evolve over time, and trying to loop them is like trying to loop a piano, doable but damaging.) I've worked with tape loops a lot; in fact, one item I'd like to add to my studio at some point is an editing desk with a couple of Scullys, so I can get back to it. I've done compositions using loops faded in and out by computer controlled gates, and blended them with other sounds in my early performance pieces. Using a sampler isn't quite the same: most of them don't have the RAM to hold a loop of the length you get when you splice together sixty feet of tape in a loop. (At 7.5 ips, that's 96 seconds.) Not only that, but you can propel the loop with one transport and run it through any number of others while they're set to play back without capstan tension, so you can simultaneously access the loop at as many different points as you have decks, and can you tell that I haven't done this in a while and I MISS IT?! metlay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 10:15:26 EST From: Jeffrey R Kell Subject: RE: The Mellotron. What a truly wonderful instrument! The Mellotron didn't use tape loops, but rather tape STRIPS! I used one in a studio once adding some bit parts for some commercial garbage. You can only hold a note for a certain length of time (a few seconds) before the tape ran out. If you wanted to hold a legato chord, you have to transpose a bit to release each note long enough for the tape to spring back, and not allow this process to sound too artificial. The tape set has three 'tracks' or voices selected by moving the playback heads in relation to the tape. You could blend adjacent voices with some patient tinkering. The standard tape had string, voice, and flute (or at least the one I used). They take some time to warm up and stabilize before they will stay in tune, if ever. The tape strips can and will jam if you play the full length of the tape often. The tapes can also break; you can splice but of course that starts getting noticeable :-) It also has a slight "pipe organ" personality in that the sound trails after the keys (but actually only a long attack time, there is a brief silence on the tape beginnings to allow the tape to reach its playback speed before making any sound. There is no release time). A strange, unusual beast indeed. I, too would like access to another someday to sample and save. ****************************** * If a program is useful, it will have to be changed. * If a program is useless, it will be documented. ****************************** +-----------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | Jeffrey R Kell, Dir Tech Services | UTC Postmaster/Listserv co-ord. | | Admin Computing, 117 Hunter Hall |Bitnet: JEFF@UTCVM.BITNET | | Univ of Tennessee at Chattanooga |JEFF%UTCVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU | | Chattanooga, TN 37403 | Bell: (615)-755-4551 | +-----------------------------------+----------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:44:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: The Prophet VS David Mantripp claims to be able to get secondhand Prophet VSs for relatively little moola. All of my experiences tell me that the VS is as rare as hen's teeth and costly as hell, especially the rackmount version. Which is a pity, because it positively rules in hell. I never include it on my tiny list of "digital synths of which I (sort of) approve" because I get mopey whenever I think about my missed opportunities to have one.... If you ever get a chance to listen to and play with a VS, do so. That's all I have to say on the matter. metlay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 11:47:26 EST From: KKG1@MARISTB.BITNET Subject: Re: Nominees for best piano substitute Ever considered a Clavinova? Goose... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 08:37:20 CST From: Jayson Tipp Subject: Pianos I finally found the electronic piano I want. Over the weekend I played a Korg electronic piano. It looked like a SG-1D, but was obviously an older model (no markers of an SG-1, or SG-1D). It was simply a Korg Sampling Piano. It had four sounds I believe. Two were acoustic piano. I couldn't recognize much difference, but one was probably a grand, the other an upright. There were also two electric pianos. One was a killer rhodes- alike, the other more of the sweet bell-type electric. It may have had a fifth voice, but I don't recall it, and I'm sure if it had more I would have played them. It had 76 keys, weighted like a champ. It had a "dynamics" control on the back next to the MIDI setup. Best as I could tell the this controller made the attack more responsive. It seemed to give the rhodes voice more bite on a hard attack. The thing played more smoothly and had the classic rhodes sound. It also had inboard digital chorus with variable speed and depth. before this I liked the Roland SD200. THis had both acoustic and electric pianos plus vibes (really nice) and I think one other voice (clavinet?). I don't know if the SG-1D is an update of the box I played (the have the same case), if it is, buy it. It sounded much better than Korg's models 800 and 3500 (they sound tinny, and seemed aimed at home use mainly). Does anyone know abvout this older Korg model? price? are there cards available for the card slot? Are there organs on any cards? Thanks -Buzz. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 13:44:22 CST From: Simon Cheung Subject: Re: Nominees for best piano substitute You should try the KORG latest T-series keyboard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 14:16:42 -0500 From: Brian Adamson Subject: Re: Nominees for best piano substitute I have seen other church groups using the Yamaha Clavinova (I think that's what it was) Evidently, they were able to get canned hymn sequences and were using the thing without a person playing it. I think this is within the stated price range. I can get the name of someone to contact at this church if it is useful. At home, look at KORG SG-1. A friend also got a Technics machine with built-in speakers and everything and he swears by it. Brian Adamson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 14:56:44 GMT From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" Subject: Bass Sound Boys and gals, Has anyone noticed the amazingly fat bass sound on a recent Karyn White single 'Secret Rendezvous' ? It is much beyond just a synth patch. I suspect it is either dubbed with a real bass or some sort of sample. Mind you what wouldn't L.A. and Babyface get up to in a studio ? If someone actually recognises the synth/sample/guitar used please tell me about it. Patrick. *P.S. I don't ALWAYS listen to commercial pop. I am a genuine musician, REALLY ! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 89 17:31:26 GMT From: "Pete Lucas, NERC-TLC, Swindon U.K." Subject: Early electronic devices? 'Singing machines' - i remember reading somewhere many years ago about some 1940's electronic devices that worked by recording sound as a trace marked out on smoked glass plates, then playing it back using moving photocells. Apparently the user recorded some short phrase of a few seconds duration, then by replaying the resulting signal through the machine and altering emphasis filters, it was possible to raise/lower the pitch of the reproduced phrase in different places. Speed could also be changed, presumably by mechanically altering the speed of the photocell. I think they used a phrase something like 'what do you think about that' and could alter the emphasis to 'what do YOU think about that' or 'what do you think about THAT' and 'what DO you think of that'. There was another device that was a crude approximation to the human vocal tract (a noise generator and some resonators?). This could apparently be made to sing 'I love you'. The two machines were demonstrated in a 'question and answer' sequence, each time altering their inflections and emphasis. ..... 'i LOVE you' 'what do YOU think about THAT?' 'i love YOU' 'what do you THINK about that' 'I love you' ..... Anybody know what these machines were called? I think it happened at Bell Labs? But my memory could be failing... 'Reliance on the powers of Reason does not come easily; it is opposed to our basic animal instincts. The dark regions are departed, and sweet Science reigns' ++Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 11:22:04 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: FX I'm going to be looking into FX, I think. I'm starting to get to the stage where I need more toys, whoops, scratch that, I'm at the stage where I have plenty of sound making capability, but in the absence of tape, have to dedicate each effect in one context. I have the MIDIverb II essentially hard-wired to a medium long reverb (so I can't use its beautiful chorus programs), and the Quadraverb trying to be an effects unit to all things at all times. In the Sudstern track I had the QVerb fed quite high from a few of the units, and programmed it by MIDI to fade in DDL effects and so on. Sudstern sounds far too clinical, I think, because I couldn't welly in with FX processing as a result. I can't make the most of the Quadraverb because I'm spreading it across too many instruments at once. My first thoughts were to buy in a couple of guitarist-style stomp-boxes (say, a chorus/flanger and a DDL) and plug these into insert points as and when needed for dedicated processing of one sound. I'm told these things sound pretty nasty, though. My current thoughts are to the modules which go into rack cages (Tantek or something?) which I can fill as and when needed, and which are apparently much nicer. Anybody have anything like this? Anybody have any comments? What I want, is to have my production sound like the first two minutes of Oxygene, but all at once, without multitracking. Is this an impossible task? Is the cost prohibitive? Am I mad? Nick. P.S. Comments on the MKS-70 firmware and MIDI spec to follow when I have a(nother) spare moment. ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 19:17:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: FX Nick: Yes, you are mad. Thoroughly. Enjoyably. Why the heck do you think I enjoy picking up the telephone and talking to you in Edinburgh, for Moog's sake? For vocal exercise? Harrumph! |-> Seriously, though, I recommend trying out a few inexpensive stomp boxes. I use a few in my studio, and they're very cost-effective. Try the Boss BF-2 Flanger on your MKS-70 and you'll shell out the bucks pronto. Metlay Trivia Question: On this topic: Name the relatively famous electronic musician who got started by running stringed instruments and an old string synth and bass pedals through a huge rack of interconnected guitar effects to create his signature sound. Hint: He's Canadian. metlay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 89 00:59:39 PST From: Eric Sassaman Subject: Yamaha FX-500 Wow! I played with the latest Yamaha effects box for guitar. Great sounds! Yamaha guitar stuff has historically been poor in the quality of the distorion effects, but not any more! My question: are there some other good multi-effects boxes I should look at? I intend to use it for guitar, synth, basically everything I can. Must be midi compatible (real time program changes for the sequencer, etc.) and not too heavy on the budget. Below $500 range, let's say. Minimum: digital delay, the usual modulation effects, no "preset ONLY" boxes, and stereo outs. What about the Yamaha SPX90? Any comments? Roland has an effects box that was selling very cheap at my local store (can't recall the model). It was also geared for guitar. I'm going to have to scrimp and save for this one, but I really do need one now. Any help in averting a disaster will be greatly appreciated (I'm a horrible impulse spender when it comes to electronic gadgets!). sass@calstate.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 89 10:42:00 EST From: "b.klassen" Subject: fx to Nick et al re: FX -- If it's any help, the latest issue of Keyboard (either Nov or Dec, with Laurie Anderson on the cover) has a big roundup of many different effects units ... you might want to check it out. I'm also at the point of buying some more toys ... thanks to Jari for the info on the Quadreverb - I'm going to y one out. I've currently got a four-year-old SPX90 that I'll never part with! I'm considering another Yamaha unitSPX900 maybe) too ... brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 89 11:04:52 EST From: Anthony Whipple Subject: Multi-Effects Box I have and use regularly for guitar a Boss MM-5 (I think). Anyway, it is a series of 5 programmable effects that can be chained together. They are: 1) compressor 2) overdrive/distortion 3)EQ 4)chorus/flanger and 5)reverb/digital delay. Parameters for all of these can be programmed and then stored into various presets. It also contains a noise gate, and a programmable send loop. Overall I am very happy with it and I always play through it. I have set up about 16 general sounds that I use, and any special effects go in some other location. There is space for 64 presets. Of course with any device there are a few drawbacks. The way this thing switches presets is by 4 group buttons, with 4 banks in a group, and 4 presets in a bank. (4x4x4=64) Also, when you swith banks the sound switches immediately instead of waiting for you to hit a preset button. (In other words if you wanted to go from bank 1 patch 2 to bank 2 patch 3, as soon as you hit bank 2 you would get bank 2 patch 2 until you hit patch 3. Confused?) Anyway, all that can be solved by patch switching via midi. Any more questions, let me know... Tony ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 10:57:00 EST From: DEFLAVIA@TMPLCIS.BITNET Subject: RE: fx Please unsubscribe me, Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 10:04:18 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: fx 5 Dec 89 10:42:00 EST <1740.8912052141@lfcs.ed.ac.uk It'll take a while for my copy of Keyboard to arrive (I get it shipped "boat" mail), but I thought it was considering digital effects boxes (Yamaha, Roland, Alesis etc.), which I'm not too interested in for the reasons I originally outlined - I need a few simple effects units I can plug into the insert points on my desk, rather than a single more expensive unit. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 11:14:00 CST From: MIRTH Subject: hey!!!!! whats with this undelivered mail..? Help!!!...Who ever is in charge please do something about this mail from wherever it is for user MCFARLANEGA..... i've received multiple messages of the same posts.....ACK!!!! its very annoying to have to wade through 20+ posts of returned mail.... thanks..... wide awake at four am.... steve ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 16:07:45 EST From: Joe McMahon Subject: New list policies To all on the list: Sorry about the mailer problems we've had of late. One mailer in the UK was returning mail, but with a header our list couldn't recognize as undelivered mail, so it sent to back to the list, and so on. I am going to introduce a couple of policies: 1) Mail bouncing from mailers which do not follow the rules will result in all users on that node being removed. 2) Mail bouncing from users who cannot be contacted for 3 days or whose disk quota is full will cause those users to be dropped if the situation continues for a week. As is standard, non-existent users will be deleted. If you are knocked off the list because of a problem, or you think you have been, please send me a note. I will reinstate you if the problem has been corrected. Sorry if this seems draconian, but I had 218 pieces of mail this morning, most of it bounces from various sites. I have sent a note to the postmaster at the node whose mail was looping, but that's no guarantee that it will get fixed. I hope it will. --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 16:21:04 EST From: CPIAZZA@UMES Subject: VFX questions Hi! I am considering buying a performance type keyboard in th 1500.00 price range, I am currently leaning toward the Ensoniq VFX. Does anyone out there have any suggestions or comments regarding this choice or another keyboard that would be suitable? Replies can be sent directly to CPIAZZA@UMES (Bitnet). --Charles Piazza ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 16:24:35 EST From: SASS@CALSTATE (Eric Sassaman) Subject: Vangelis Ok, electronic music fans... I need some reccomendations. I previously asked about Tangerine Dream, and got a deluge of answers from people about their favorite TD albums. I have since purchased four of them, and am very happy with your recommendations. Thanks! Now, however, I have been turned on to a Vangelis CD, "Antartica". I love it! I also noticed that the Vangelis section at my favorite Tower Records is packed full of a zillion different Vangelis CD's. I'd like to get some more! Which ones should I buy? What is your #1 favorite Vangelis record (or CD, of course!)? Thanks in advance. sass@calstate.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 19:20:47 EST From: HABOURG@BROWNVM.BITNET Subject: Re: Vangelis I really liked "Antarctica" too. Also, a bit different in style is "Ignacio" which is a film soundtrack, I think, and "China". (If you liked the theme used for background to some Gallo Wine commercials run about 4 months or so ago, you'll find it as the first cut on "Opera Sauvage", the rest of the album didn't appeal to me very much. -Otto Matec ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 89 09:45:06 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Vangelis 4 Dec 89 16:24:35 EST <4262.8912050303@lfcs.ed.ac.uk >Now, however, I have been turned on to a Vangelis CD, "Antartica". I love it! >I also noticed that the Vangelis section at my favorite Tower Records is >packed full of a zillion different Vangelis CD's. I strongly recommend the new CD, "Themes". It is a compilation of his work on Polydor, from 1973 onwards, and includes some of the Blade Runner film music. It's a very good selection (even though I have all Vangelis's albums anyway (around 27 at the last count, I think)), although it doesn't cover his weirder or more apocalyptic early work. Guess who paid 15 quid for the Japanese Antarctica LP several years ago when it was banned from the West? Now it's half that price on CD. sigh. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 89 17:14:24 GMT From: "Pete Lucas, NERC-TLC, Swindon U.K." Subject: Vangelis Vangelis - i prefer his early stuff (before he started teaming up with people). Try SPIRAL or ALBEDO 0.39 (both from the mid 70's). Pete L. ++Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 09:44:31 EST From: Joe McMahon Subject: Forwarded mail >From: cannon@sifvx5.SINet.SLB.COM (Neil Cannon) >Subject: RE: Vangelis #1: China #2: Spiral #3: Albedo 0.39 Happy Listening, Neil Cannon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 89 16:43:55 +0200 From: geiman mark Subject: GFMUSIC Hello to all, I have heard that there is a shareware sequencer program for the IBM PC called GFMUSIC. Does anybody know where can I obtain it? I would prefer e-mail address since I don't have direct FTP access. Would somebody having it consider mailing it to me? Thanks in advance, Mark Geiman, Math & CS departement, Bar-Ilan University, Israel. BITNET: geiman@bimacs INTERNET: geiman@bimacs.biu.ac.il ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 89 16:43:41 EST From: Andy Silverman Subject: Drum box rolling on R-5/8 I've had the same experience- I'm triggering an R-5 thru MIDI from my Yamaha pads and I can't seem to get a decent low velocity roll. All of the R-5 snare hits are pretty "mondo" hard... +-----------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Andy Silverman | Internet: silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | | "All stressed out and | Compu$erve: 72261,531 | | nobody to choke." | | +-----------------------+-----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 12:40:51 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Waldolf MicroWave (sic) Ok folks, any comments on Waldorf's MicroWave synth rackmount? Reviews reckon that it's a reincarnation of the PPG (wavetables etc.) with MIDI/card-loadable wavetables, Oberheim-like modulation facilities and very nice analog filtering, and front-panel styling remininiscent of Fisher Price. Note: I'm not going gaga over this one. Even though it only costs #999. Honest. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 12:07:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: Waldolf MicroWave (sic) Nick: Post more data, dammit! We haven't even HEARD of the thing here in the USA! metlay PS. MIDI loadable wavetables and analog filtering and Obie modulation? Drool... |-> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 08:51:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: analog vs digital An amusing quotation, taken vastly out of context but it could be from an analog synthesist speaking to a digital synthesist. (Or from a musique concretist to an analog synthesist...): There's a good deal of fun to be found in the old way, and a good deal of beauty, and the practioners seldom expired from ennui. That's from Barry Hughart's "The Story of the Stone", which is a real fun read, but it is a sequel, and you will better appreciate the characters if you read "The Bridge of Birds" first. And a joke on myself. I have the luxury of playing and recording in stereo. I also have the luxury of having accumulated enough equipment that it has to be arranged in a circle with me at the middle. (The Hottentots are attacking! Draw the synthesizers into a circle!) The circle arrangement makes the assignment of left and right arbitrary. For several months now I have been defining left and right from my vantage point standing facing the Mellotron, giving it pride of place (longest standing lust finally satisfied). Only last night while I was twiddling knobs and wondering why that sound was coming from over there did I finally realize that my mixers were at the opposite side of the circle from the Mellotron thereby mapping the mixers' left channels to the "right" speaker. Take my word for it, kiddies, life can be a lot easier if you define left and right speakers and tape channels as seen while standing facing your mixers. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Department Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 12:13:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: analog vs digital Great quote. I'm curious as to the context, tho. Oh well, better read the book.... As for your comments on imaging and ergonomics, hear hear! The biggest improvement I ever made in my studio was to buy a metal shelf for the middle tier of my main keyboard stand, under Thing One (my primary Xpander) and over The Bitch (my Xk), and to set up my near-field monitors facing my seated playing position there. The shelf now holds my MCS2, Cyclone, and -- vitally!-- my Roland M240 mixer, from which I can mix in a reliable imaging setup. The only problem I run into comes when I turn to face my other rack, at which point everything's in my left ear and too far away, alas. I have a feeling that when I start sequencing everything and letting the computer help me mix down, things will be easier, but nowadays, when I play live to 2track, it's a pain in the butt. metlay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 17:52:25 GMT From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Super-JX/MKS-70 MIDI spec comments. Thought I'd make some comments about the MKS-70 MIDI spec. since Metlay is thinking of buying one to add some richness to the sound of his Oberheim synths... As far as front panel operation of the MKS-70 is concerned, I think it's fine. I've managed to crash the machine once or twice, and once got it into a state where it wouldn't set up its keyboard mode as I wanted, but I had all its MIDI ports plugged into the Mac at the time and was trying to use some intimate language with it. Regarding the MIDI spec. Bug #1 - it doesn't respect All Notes Off, despite what the manual claims. This may be a hassle for sequencers/editors which assume they can shut everything up this way. The SysEx spec is rather broken. The voice ("TONE") data is fine and quite understandable, although rather weird. My editor/librarian has access to all the tone stuff, and that's fine. One point: the MKS-70 won't accept tone data alterations to the "B" block, only to the "A" block. This is no real drawback; my editor just transmits the whole thing if any parameter changes. Irritating, though. The performance ("PATCH") data has a 53 byte format which is also a bit weird. The bug here is that you can't set up all the the keyboard modes (DUAL/A/B/SPLIT/...) remotely. A glance at the spec. for the format of these messages will indicate that the guy who designed this part of the OS was seriously out to lunch. Apart from keyboard mode, everything else edits fine. Bulk transfer. Although the patch data is 53 bytes long, the bulk dump patch data is 96 bytes, each 0-15. I haven't the foggiest idea what these are. As a result, I can unload an MKS-70 by decoding the voice data and throwing away the patch data, but I can't do the load the other way since I don't know how to code my 53-byte patch data into this 96 byte form. So, no bulk loading over MIDI (unless somebody has this info, in which case, Plee-e-e-se tell me). I think that's about it. In practice, it means I have to hit the WRITE button on the synth whenever I want it to remember things for me, rather than do a bulk load. This is a minor irritation in face of the fact that this machine sounds WONDERFUL. Despite having a very similar (in fact, slightly simpler) voice architecture to the Oberheim Matrix 6, it sounds a lot cleaner/silkier/richer/what have you. (Of course, the '6 has the modulation matrix, which is where the richness of its sound comes from.) If you can get one of these beasts cheaply, I strongly recommend it. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 20:38:45 EST From: "Kurt A. Geisel" Subject: Re: Super-JX/MKS-70 MIDI spec comments. >sounds a lot cleaner/silkier/richer/what have you. Does anyone know if the Roland analogs are based on the CEMs or if they have their own stuff (or at least their own filters)? - Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 14:34:01 -0500 From: Brian Adamson Subject: Emulator III Hello Does anymone know anything about the Emulator III. Evidently, one was purchased for some scientific reason here at the lab and I may get an oppurtunity to play with it. The reference manual for it appeared mysteriously on my desk this morning and I am wondering if it is worth my while to try to get to mess with it some. I have heard of them in the past but don't anything about them other that they are a sampler. Brian Adamson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 17:17:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: Emulator III Brian: If you don't wanna deal with it, send it to me. *drool* The Emulator III is a stereo 16-bit sampler that does everything but sleep with you. It sounds incredible, has an enormous library, and supposedly is well set up as a complete music, er, w*rkst*t**n. What is it about money-spending, clueless companies and synths? I just found out a half hour ago that my department is buying an EPS for use in an acoustic physics class, and at the end of next term it'll only gather dust unused until next fall and they're wondering if I'd take care of it for them.... What'd I say? I'll tell you what I said.... "Nah. You guys are cheapskates. BRIAN gets to play with an EMULATOR III!" |-> metlay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 15:31:36 CST From: Eddie Mikell Subject: Walk through an U-20 problem Since the net has been a little quiet, I thought maybe I could beg for some instruction. I purchased a U-20 a few days ago, and have been wading through the 2 million menus so I can get a feel for this rig. I was wondering if someone had the time to go through a step by step procedure on a solution to a problem which I'm working on. The U-20 has two programmable (supposedly) slide controls. I have been attempting to use the C1 slide as a control for the spin rate of the leslie effect and the C2 slide as a control for the depth on the organ 3 sound. I have checked my transmit and receive channels, made sure I have C-1 = Chorus Delay (or something like that), and checked that the midi TX and RX were on, but, alas, no control. The organ is stuck in a slow spin. I realize that's probably not much of a challenge, but it might be educational for a walk through. One other thing. The brass section on the U-20 sounds like someone buzzing their lips in a band-aid box. Would anyone care to suggest ways on "fatting" that sound a little. I have tried mixing two or three "parts" together, detuning each a little, and have had limited success (it sounds like a high school band tuning up). Thanks for all the input on the "self - teaching" video and audio courses for keyboard that are floating around. The summary of all of them stated that none were worth a da**. (Too bad, that Bon Jovi tape looked like a killer). Thanks in advance. Eddie H. Mikell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 15:53:23 EST From: Ergo Subject: Re: Walk through an U-20 problem I sent for the Dr. John tapes on Homespun; I thought they were worth the listen if not for instructional value. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 13:42:00 EST From: "b.klassen" Subject: Turtle Beach Software Anyone had any experience with software from Turtle Beach? The product I am interested in is called "Sample Vision", which is a sample editor for the IBM PC. It retails for about $400 US, which is a good chunk of cash to lay out for a piece of software you know little to nothing about ... it received a favourable review in "Keyboard", for what that's worth. You can also buy a unit that connects to the parallel port of your PC which plays back the sample you are editing (I guess so you don't have to wait for the thing to dump to your sampler everytime you want to hear your progress). Sounds like neat stuff. Another question for Mr. Oberheim ... I have a chance to get a brand new Matrix 1000 for around $500 Cdn. Should I? I think I heard somewhere that you can edit and store a certain number of patches if you had software - do you know if that's true? Is the 1000 splitable like the Matrix-6? already spending next year's Christmas money, brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 17:17:37 EST From: "Kevin R. Weiner" Subject: Re: Turtle Beach Software SampleVision is super. Nice GEM-based user interface and lots of useful features. Excellent support from a small but committed outfit. You can get it for $279 retail. Highly recommended. Kevin Weiner Lehigh University Computing Center (215) 758-3991 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 17:40:00 EST From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: RE: Turtle Beach Software Brian: The Matrix 1000 has 800 permanent patches in ROM and 200 editable in RAM, accessible via a front panel of a MAtrix 6 or 6R or a computer. It's a monotimbral instrument and can't do splits, but can access MIDI data on one channel per voice. Why? To clean up incoming data from guitar controllers. $500 canuck ~ $440 US, which ain't bad, but I'm not the one to ask (assuming that you were referring to me as "Mr. Oberheim" and not expecting Tom himself to suddenly join EMUSIC-L |-> ) as to whether it's a good deal. Listen for yourself and decide. If you don't like it, there are other analog boxes out there, from the Cheetah to the Xpander.... metlay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 21:01:24 EST From: "Kurt A. Geisel" Subject: Speaking of Software I haven't seen anyone mention here on EMUSIC-L that they were using an Amiga in their setup. Any Amiga users out there? I know it's time to upgrage my software (I'm using SoundScape) and I was ready to plunk down the $250 for Music-X (which FINALLY arrived) when Todor Fay (author of SoundScape) jumped back into the scene with Bars & Pipes. I just read a generic article describing B&P- this sounds HOT. Finally a true object-oriented sequencer/composer/copyist. It has some amazing-sounding "AI" tools for manipulating harmony, rhthym, time signatures, etc. Not only is it fully open to the brave programmer (like SoundScape was), but it has its own macro language for creating tools and custom setups. It sounds basically like SoundScape on steroids, but they left a lot of details out of this article which worry me. For instance, unlike Music-X, there is no mention of hookups to other products or any Librarian/Editor facilities. (The Amiga is multitasking, but in my experience music programs are not always well behaved in sharing the MIDI port...) He "collaborated" with some musician this time (in fact they put her name on the product and not his). From the screenshots, I can't stand the arty interface graphics, though. (Kind of like the front panel of the Emax- makes me wanna puke...) Has anyone played with B&P or Music-X or considered them? - Kurt Kurt Geisel SNAIL : Carnegie Mellon University 65 Lambeth Dr. ARPA : kg19+@andrew.cmu.edu Pittsburgh, PA 15241 UUCP : uunet!nfsun!kgeisel "I will not be pushed, filed, indexed, stamped, BIX : kgeisel briefed, debriefed, or numbered!" - The Prisoner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 22:17:00 EST From: The Mad Doctor Subject: RE: Speaking of Software >I haven't seen anyone mention here on EMUSIC-L that they were using an >Amiga in their setup. Any Amiga users out there? Yo!!!! >I know it's time to upgrage my software (I'm using SoundScape) and I Know how you feel...I'm still using Sonix!!! Well, it ain't that bad, and of course it'll save IFF scores for when I upgrade to The Copyist (read: when I get the $$$). >Librarian/Editor facilities. (The Amiga is multitasking, but in my >experience music programs are not always well behaved in sharing the >MIDI port...) He "collaborated" with some musician this time (in fact Dr. T's software from what I understand does an excellent job of making all those programs they have work together, share and share alike. The Amiga has fantastic multitasking capabilities, but when it comes to sharing things like a serial port..... Anyway, if you have the memory, the disk space, and the $$$ you can make your Amiga into a music workstation: KCS and the others to perform the music, Copyist to print the score etc. Atari ST users can have this same advantage if they buy a special multitasking shell that Dr. T's has written. And--files can come from ST to Amy and back and STILL support the Amiga's IFF formats! Have Fun! // _ \X/ |he /\/\ad |)octor!! ---------------------- End of EMUSIC-L Digest **********************