EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 17, Number 3 Amiga librarian request and Generic Librarians (9 messages) Atari Mick Fleetwood Controller (2 messages) Cakewalk Pro (2 messages) Categorizing Music (17 messages) Composer's DeskTop Project Computer Music Journal 14, #2 (3 messages) CSound and Samplers (and Amigas) (2 messages) CSound on Mac? Disco music and Taste (3 messages) EFFECTive LOOPing fractals, chaos and MIDI (2 messages) Kawai K-1 II and K-4 (U 20?) Lexicon Prices Mag filings tape Mag Filings TWO MPU-401 (5 messages) Rolodex file Summer NAMM? Your EMUSIC-L moderator is Joe McMahon. Please send articles to EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET. Send administrative mail to xrjdm@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov. Digests are distributed weekly (well, nearly). For faster response to questions, subscribe to EMUSIC-L at LISTSERV@AUVM.BITNET. Subscribers to this list may send mail to EMUSIC-D; it will be forwarded to EMUSIC-L. Back issues are available from xrjdm@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov. Anonymous FTP may be available soon. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 19:38:10 CST From: Jason Keeler Subject: Amiga librarian request and Generic Librarians Hi folx; Just thought I'd see if any of you would happen to have a public domain librarian for the Amiga. Primarily this would be for my M1, but a general librarian would be fine. ...Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 02:06:00 EDT From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: Re: Amiga librarian Me too. Assuming my Amiga deal doesn't fall through because I just did something REALLY stupid |-<, I'm gonna need one.... Can someone post a quickie description of "glib" for us ignoramuses? metlay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 14:42:00 PDT From: Willis Dair Subject: Re: Amiga librarian Re: GLIB information GLIB is an Generic LIBrarian. I just acquired a TX81Z and GLIB supports it. I downloaded GLIB from the UCSD repository. That version has support for Roland D-10, Kawai K-1, Korg DW8000, and Yamaha DX100, TX81Z. There is also support for the DEP5 and I think the K-5. Anyway, the program is very general and other synths can be supported as long as someone will write the C sysex code. The program appears to be heavily influenced by UNIX. Oh, yeah, to compile from sources, you will need access to a UNIX type machine because there is some flex (lex) code to be generated. You can compile on UNIX to see what the screen setup looks like. You can try the cursor movements and get a feel for the types of things you can edit. There is no MIDI driving code in the UNIX version. You will need to port the code to your favorite micro (MAC, IBM, Atari, and Amiga are suppose to be supported). I compiled my version on an IBM-like using Turbo-C. It is kind of a "raw" program that get the basics done; changing parameters and doing bulk dumps. There are no whizzy graphics, just numbers. Most of the values in the TX81Z can be edited using this program. Depending on the machine you intend to run GLIB on and the synth you wish to support, your porting effort may vary. After fiddling around with it, I have some general feel of the program. I may be able to answer some basic intuitive questions. Good Luck. Willis Dair Santa Clara University ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 09:27:24 EDT From: kgeisel Subject: Re: Amiga librarian Well, I have GLIB working on the Amiga and I wrote an Xpander module for it which handles librarian type stuff but has no editing (who needs editing for an Xpander anyway). I really wouldn't recommend GLIB as a permanent solution if you are heavily into shuffling patches around. If you just want to back up fixed banks of patches then its fine. One thing that I have gotten out of GLIB is that it seems to be a fairly standard patch interchange format on the net and I have ftp'd a lot of patches (for the K-5, not the Xpander) which were in GLIB format. I am beginning to not believe in generic librarians, even the commercial ones. Certainly I don't see how you could have a truly generic "editor" for any synth architecture. I am writing my own customized libriarians which share a common interface, but are tailored to each synth. - Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 10:48:07 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Amiga librarian >I am beginning to not believe in generic librarians, even the commercial >ones. Certainly I don't see how you could have a truly generic "editor" >for any synth architecture. Well, it's a pain, given how brain-damaged some of the instruments are. If everything had a notion of sliders and buttons (on/off or single selection) life would be so much easier. First prize for most obscure MIDI behaviour must go to the MKS-70 (you have to send MIDI values like 0, 1, 2, 5, 8 to set the pitchbend amount, and how they pack 96 nybbles into 53 bytes is beyond me...), and the QuadraVerb is seriously weird. In practice I've managed to get my generic editor/librarian to cover the D-50, MKS-7 (chord, melody, bass), MKS-70 (tones, patches), D-110 (tones, timbres, rhythm, patches), Matrix-6, and the Waldorf doesn't look too bad, although the latter would need a custom interface for the wave sample and control table construction (hey, the Waldorf can be programmed to do wave sequencing (with loadable waves) like the Korg VapourwareStation, cute huh?). Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 12:32:17 CDT From: Philip Galanter Subject: GenEdit & Generic Editors Someone commented that they didn't see how a generic editor would be possible...I assume he means possible within a certain set of expectations that he doesn't enumerate, but I would be willing to bet that a quick look at GenEdit from Hybrid Arts would show that most of those expectations could be met..at least on an Atari (and someday soon a Mac). (Aside: I am not the principle programmer for GenEdit, but I have been paid by Hybrid Arts to create most of the SysEx drivers for various instruments and a few of the Editors, such as the one for the Proteus). I plan on finishing an editor for the Xpander/Matrix-12 soon, and the next release of GenEdit (1.1) will greatly extend the instruments covered. Unlike some other generic editors, GenEdit can be sued to create editors which don't look generic and seem more like dedicated editors. Also, at the 1.1 release, GenEdit will work with Creator/Notator in such a way that you can move GenEdit controllers in real time (while running the sequencer and listening to the music) and the sequencer will record those moves. Great for filter sweeps, control of effects (such as echo or reverb depth), or automated mixing. For Proteus users, the 1.1 release of GenEdit includes a spreadsheet like tuning editor that makes doing tunings a lot easier...you can set all notes to a single value, add randomization, increment by a given amount (makes things like quarter tone scales just a couple of mouse clicks), etc. Also, the global settings are arranged like a 16 channel (in this case midi channels) mixing board. Phil || Philip Galanter, Manager \\ 627 Dartmouth Place // AppleLink: A42 \\ || Advanced Technology Group \\ Evanston IL 60208 // Compuserve: 76474,154 \\ || Northwestern Univ. - ACNS \\ (708)-491-4050 // galanter@acns.nwu.edu \\ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 13:44:00 EST From: "Richard S. Holmes" Subject: RE: GenEdit & Generic Editors Philip Galanter writes: > ... > Unlike some other generic editors, GenEdit can be sued to create editors > which don't look generic and seem more like dedicated editors. > ... I dunno; I think there's too much litigation in the software industry as it is. Rich Holmes =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | Richard S. Holmes | | | | Physics Department | (315)443-5973 | rich@suhep.bitnet | | Syracuse University | or -2701 | rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu | | Syracuse, NY 13244 | | | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- DISCLAIMER: I have no opinions. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 14:02:00 EST From: "William R(ay) Brohinsky" Subject: RE: GenEdit & Generic Editors From: Philip Galanter <@utrcgw.utc.com:galanter%ACNS.NWU.EDU@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> >Unlike some other generic editors, GenEdit can be sued to create editors ^^^^ >which don't look generic and seem more like dedicated editors. Shall we start an EMUSIC-L class action now, or wait for the amiga release? [sorry, I couldn't resist!] raybro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 18:03:00 EDT From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: Re: GenEdit & Generic Editors Amiga release? You want to wait for an AMIGA RELEASE? Oh, wait a minute. Dan Barrett's on this mailing list, isn't he? Well, I've insulted the bejeebers out of him once before with my opinion on the state of MIDI software for the Amiga--I don't want to do it again. (How's THAT for the start of a new thread? |-> ) metlay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 90 10:36:39 EDT From: kgeisel Subject: Atari Mick Fleetwood Controller There is a generic Atari ad in the latest EM and there is a picture of the custom controller designed for Atari by Mic Fleetwood, with no explanations of course. I've heard about this a long time ago, but I've never seen any details. Does anyone know anything about this? I wonder how much Atari is going to charge for it. Could it be the poor man's Thunder? I'll bet that it is just a dumb touch pad will require an Atari to do the actual processing. - Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 15:42:56 EDT From: Jouni Alkio - the Happy Dreamer Subject: Hotzbox Kurt Geisel asked about the Atari MIDI controller, so here comes: I have an article about it in a STart magazine (It's a ST mag). The thing was called "Hotzbox", named after it's "inventor" Jimmy Hotz. Unfortunately, I don't have the magazine right now, but I will try to find it. As far as I can remember, the cheapest version was to cost about 2000$. (Or was it the most expensive, I don't remember.) The box itself contains only the controller, and some ST software belongs with it. I remember, that "you don't need to have to know how to play" to play with the box... Some harmonic structures etc. could be programmed, and differet things could be controlled with the boxes touch-sensitive surface. I wonder if it will ever be avalable, because I think it is over two years from the article, and I have neven seen the thing advertized or anything... (The article praised the thing VERY much, I wonder if they knew anything about this stuff in general...) Jouni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 11:41:00 EST From: CTDONATH@SUNRISE.BITNET Subject: Cakewalk Pro What's the general opinion of Cakewalk Pro? Cakewalk has gottent good reviews. What's better about Pro? Does anyone use one or the other? Does it matter? Even if it doesn't matter does it matter that it matters? - Carl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 14:47:25 PDT From: The vlsi-mentor Super User Subject: Re: Cakewalk PRO >What's the general opinion of Cakewalk Pro? Cakewalk has gottent >good reviews. What's better about Pro? >Does anyone use one or the other? I use them both, although I use PRO much more than regular. Cakewalk PRO, IMHO, has got to be the best price/performance sequencer out there on the market today. Among other nifty features: - You can do percentage quantitatization. - There is a "macro language" that can be used to process or create events. - a "fit improv" command lets you play free form and then enter a metronome track and have Cakewalk align the performance so as to be in time with that track. - You can define keystroke macros (any reasonable sequence of keys can be saved as one keystroke) This is just what I can remember off of the top of my head. I can check into it more if you are really interested. ---- Dave Hayes dave@vlsi-mentor.jpl.nasa.gov dave%vlsi-mentor@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov "The word 'choice' is a fraud when one is taught what to choose." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 14:30:02 EDT From: MTG@CSI.COMPUSERVE.COM Subject: Categorizing Music Oh, goodie; a message that isn't about a piece of equipment I don't have/want! > "Oh, that's a piece of experimental sysnthesiser music" > > "Well, do you like it ?" > > "Well I don't know anything about it experimental music !" How true. I guess the music I make is experimental; that seems to be the nearest catch-all to cover it but my music still has a "common" edge to it in places, because I do enjoy some "pop" musics or musics more commonly known: big band, industrial, polka, classical, etc. Still, it doesn't matter -- if it's vaguely alien, people focus on the alien parts and it becomes entirely alien. If it's alien, it's feared. What don't see is the irony that NO ONE is an expert in experimental music (!); that's why it's experimental! It's experimental so it can change before getting old. Some people I talk to realise this (even though they don't usually listen to that kind of stuff), but a lot don't. >However, if I produce what I reckon to be a killer piece of House/dance music, >then almost everyone I know knows something about that, and they tend to be a >lot more critical - you'd be suprised the amount the man on the street knows >about production, mixing and arranging, and I've had a lot of useful feedback >from people. True, but is that what one wants -- are you trying to please *everyone*? Are you pleasing them *instead* of yourself? Those are problems I find in making such music; at least, if you make it all the time. Most of my music ends up pretty odd, but occasionally (like the last thing I did) was pretty listenable and easily digestible. In some senses, I like to do it to prove that I can -- people seem to think that you do experimental stuff because you can't make "real" music. It is also nice to make something that more people can enjoy (a sort of "elitist repentence" piece, or something -- keeps one from being a complete snoot or something). >I know there's a lot of rubbish synth based music in the charts at the moment, >but I also think that the availabilty of cheap synths and sampling to the >masses has done a lot to pull synth music out of the rut it was stuck in in >the early eighties, with aging bands like Tangerine Dream et al, as well as >J M Jarre dominating the synth scene, and the (IHMO) bland semi-classical stuff >labeled as New Age. And now people are finally seeing the synth as a "real instrument"... 'bout time, too. We're beyong the "Wow!" phase of synths and now people have to (or should, at least) prove they actually have some talent in using the thing... >The discovery of synths by people who have never heard of TD or Klaus Shulze, >and therefore don't feel any desire to copy or imitate these people and their >techniques has meant that many new and exciting approaches to synths have been >born. Don't write these people off as non-musicians - more experimental people >like the KLF, the Orb, Renegade Soundwave to name but a few have produced some >of the most interesting and challenging synth music I have heard for years. Renegade Soundwave? Well, each to their own -- it's all relative. But as I said above, so many people think that experimental synthesists are just talentless doodlers; people that can't do anything else, and hence, what they do must not be the work of talent, right? My synth childhood was Synergy, but I don't think I emulate that stuff [fortunately]. In spite of a BIG lack of public approval/acceptance, I just do what I want to do, which is fun for some people, and ignored by others. I know that I *could* make music which many more people would like -- danceable, house-music electricka boogies that could go on 12" everywhere. But, I don't want to. At least not exclusively. I would rather see music as my art rather than my paycheck, and enjoy making the stuff I make. To those who do make their living from that stuff: Well, if you like it, OK; I'm not happy if you're doing it just to make your living from it, but that's your choice. I just choose not to let the potential money keep me from making my own experimental stuff. [ Rant Off. ] - Mark G. >There, I've got that off my chest - I can cool down now and go back to work ! >-- > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tony J Jewell > Systems Officer City Of London Polytechnic > ___ . ___ > JANET: tonyj@uk.ac.clp.unixa / \ / / \ > EARN/BitNet: tonyj@unixa.clp.ac.uk / / /___ / > EAN: tonyj%clp.unixa@ean-relay.ac.uk <____/ <___ / >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 12:27:52 CDT From: U19807@UICVM.BITNET Subject: "Classical"/Musique Concrete Electronic Music Yo. Since this my first posting,I decided to open up with a volley concerning a subject I findall too neglected as a topic. Does anybody out realize how neglected elcetronic material is as far as most Classical music sections in even the biggest record stores are concerned? I once scampered over to down- town Chicago and-curious to see whether or not I could find any Stockhausen in a Classical tape bin at a fairly large record store- I soon discovered that there wasn't squat concerning ol' Karlheinz. Plenty of Schoenberg-he's pretty hard to find,as well-but no Stockhausen. Admittedly,Stockhausen didn't compose on a synth,but quite a few "electronic" bands don't always do that- certainly,Cabaret Voltaire comes to mind. What especially made this venture odd was the fact that while some artists who tread in the path of severe experimen- tation with musical structures were included(the aforementioned Schoenberg, for example), nobody who messed with the INSTRUMENTATION and acoustic biases of most "Classical" (what an overused term) music was included. Does anybody else find this odd? What about Musique Concrete? Does that qualify as "Classical"? By the way,don't get your hopes up concerning an "Electronic Mu- sic" bin being hid somewhere. There wasn't one. -Chris Krolczyk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 14:02:00 EST From: "William R(ay) Brohinsky" Subject: RE: "Classical"/Musique Concrete Electronic Music Gee, maybe you'd have better luck at record stores around Northeastern U? Our local `University Music' store has an electronic bin, and also has some of the more esoteric experimentalisti represented in the classical sections, and they're an outpost of the store near UCONN, CT. Maybe it's just Connecticut? raybro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 18:11:00 EDT From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: Re: "Classical"/Musique Concrete Electronic Music Chris: Welcome to EMUSIC-L. Stay alert, trust no one, keep your synthi handy. It sounds to me like you need to find a new record store; the absence of some sort of e-music cache that is recognized as such is usually a sign of ignorance and/or snobbery on the part of the owner. The store where I buy my used vinyl has a huge e-music section with everything from Subotnick to Stardrive (eegh). If store owners even recognize such things as "music" (and some don't), they're usually careful to give them a place of their own, so those who are looking for them don't have to hunt very hard..... Still in Tennessee and HATING IT!, metlay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 14:01:00 EDT From: Steve Rife Subject: Classical Sectioning in Record Stores I agree the record stores have no idea what they are doing with the "traditional classical", "new classical", and "electronic" classifications. If it helps any, around the Detroit/Ann Arbor/Toledo area the more modern classical/electronic composers who lean toward "Avante Garde" are sometimes found in the stores under "experimental music". It gets quite silly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 12:25:04 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: Classical Sectioning in Record Stores > I agree the record stores have no idea what they are doing with > the "traditional classical", "new classical", and "electronic" > classifications. I'd got a step further and say that most record stores (particularly the larger ones) have no idea what they're doing when it comes to classifications in general. For instance, I've found Eno's Ambient works under "Rock" -- yup, right next to things like Guns 'n Roses. Sometimes it seems like the best solution would be to put *everything* in one category (call it "Sound"), organized alphebetically. I don't mind my Bach CDs sitting next to my Big Audio Dynamite CDs; I don't think I'd have trouble with a record store organized the same way. In my experience, the best places to find things like Stockhausen and other "experimental" works is in smaller and/or used record stores. The small places can't compete with the big ones in categories like Top 100 and "Classical" (whatever...), so they tend to concentrate on areas that the big stores miss, e.g. "Electronic", "Experimental", etc. At least that's the way it seems to work around here. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 18:15:10 EDT From: Dean Swan Subject: Re: Classical Sectioning in Record Stores I agree with Adam on the "one classification, alphabetically" thing. The big problem with classifying music is that most classifications are ambiguous, and most music doesn't strictly fit only a single category. Classification of music is a very good example of a "many-to-many" relationship. On the other hand, my company has at least one client in the record business, but he only does Jazz, so his classifications are a little more narrow (i.e. big band, fusion, pop, instrumental, etc.), and I like it that people need to organize their data. What would I do as a software consultant if they didn't ? -Dean Swan dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edu P.S. Classifying music would be one of those "n-p complete" type problems. Like class scheduling at a college, according to students' requests for classes, you can only do a best fit to minimize error. There is no complete solution. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 10:41:02 EDT From: MTG@CSI.COMPUSERVE.COM Subject: Experimental Music It is too bad that Musique Concrete and other experimental offerings are all-too-frequently neglected by record stores. Our local selections are somewhat substandard as well. I think the best luck I have in finding older things is at a smaller used store here... they have a special section for "Electronic/Avant-Garde". Other stores have similar sections, and they're inevitably dominated by Jarre, Synergy, and the like, but the used store tends to get in the good tidbit every once in a while. Don't forget, there's always mail order... - Mark G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 13:29:00 EDT From: Steve Rife Subject: Mail Order In the last mail message I received there was a mention of "Mail Order". If anyone knows of a really phenomenal mail order house which can easily get hard to get CD's (including imports) I would greatly appreciate a name and address. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 12:15:00 EDT From: Craig Hicks Subject: RE: Mail Order > In the last mail message I received there was a mention of >"Mail Order". > If anyone knows of a really phenomenal mail order house which >can easily get hard to get CD's (including imports) I would greatly >appreciate a name and address. Well, I don't know if I would call them *phenomenal* but I do believe that Tower Records has its entire inventory available via mail, and it is extensive. If you are looking for compact disks, they stock a number of indie label releases. They also have a respectable selection of Jazz and Classical releases, even though I wasn't able to find a recent Courtney Pine release on the racks. If you're interested, I can send more info. Sorry, but I don't have the address of phone numbers for Tower with me at the office. - Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 11:05:41 CDT From: U19807@UICVM.BITNET Subject: RE: Music "Classifications",pt. 568 -NICK,etc.: You said it. Of ocurse,the reaosn why I dislike the rubric "New Age" is rather simple: One,it conjures up visions of Shirley McLaine and all those other worshippers of Costume Jewelry posing as "Crystals"; Two, a great deal of that stuff is yer typical retrograde Spyro Gyra/Chuck Mangione pap which most serious Jazz freaks (ranging from Bop to Free Jazz buffs) laugh at. Putting quality stuff like,say, Tangerine Dream (or at least their more innovative work) together with that dross is just as insulting as,say, mentioning Miles Davis and Bob (thrice-cursed be his name) James together in the same sentence. I'm no Jazz expert,mind you,but I'm quite aware of the difference. Likewise,putting TD in with that sub-Fuzak rubbish is an atro- cious coupling of the worst sort. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 15:06:51 PDT From: The vlsi-mentor Super User Subject: RE: Music "Classifications",pt. 568 >great deal of that stuff is yer typical retrograde Spyro Gyra/Chuck Mangione >pap which most serious Jazz freaks (ranging from Bop to Free Jazz buffs) >laugh at. THIS serious jazz freak LIKES Spyro Gyra. Listened to their newer albums lately? Please do so, before you associate this damn good FUSION group with any negativity. The last two that I have (Rites of Summer and Point of View) are EXCELLENT. >Putting quality stuff like,say, Tangerine Dream (or at least their >more innovative work) together with that dross is just as insulting as,say, >mentioning Miles Davis and Bob (thrice-cursed be his name) James together >in the same sentence. I'm no Jazz expert,mind you,but I'm quite aware of the >difference. Likewise,putting TD in with that sub-Fuzak rubbish is an atro- >cious coupling of the worst sort. Now, now. What you like and what others like is sure to differ, as I illustrate. Please keep your stylistic preferences to yourself, thank you very much. ---- Dave Hayes dave@vlsi-mentor.jpl.nasa.gov dave%vlsi-mentor@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov "The word 'choice' is a fraud when one is taught what to choose." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 04:05:00 EDT From: Craig Hicks Subject: Music Categories, Part III in 3-D Speaking of categories...what really urks me is when I hear people whose music I have enjoyed since the 1970s such as Brian Eno and Bill Nelson (or even placed in a bin!) labelled "new age," which I don't even recognize as a legit designator for a genre of music. Even the Windham Hill (the big daddy of "new age" music) releases I've heard seem to be more accurately described as "solo piano" or "easy listening." But then again, I'm into music, not marketing. - Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 14:05:11 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Music Categories, Part III in 3-D >Speaking of categories...what really urks me is when I hear >people whose music I have enjoyed since the 1970s such as >Brian Eno and Bill Nelson (or even placed in a bin!) >labelled "new age" At least you have such bins. Here in the UK many years ago, there were bins marked European/Electronic, which was fine. Then there were bins marked New Age, into which the electronic stuff was thrown. Now the New Age bins have vanished, as have the records and CD's which inhabited them. There's no way of buying a Klaus Schulze or Robert Schroeder CD in any of the record stores I know in Edinburgh. (Tangerine Dream and Vangelis are "rock" of course.) Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 18:23:00 CST From: jeff beer Subject: New Music There had been a good outlet for it in the New Music Distribution Service, but unfortunately they have gone out of business, at least temporarily. Their primmary customers used to be record store, and since they carried more vinyl, and record stores are tending to cut out vinyl, down goes their business. jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 18:14:00 CST From: jeff beer Subject: re. music classifications regarding the term New Age, i defer to Pat Metheny, "There is now such thing as New Age, only bad jazz". An aside about Bob James, he also has been a part of more creative stuff, i even thing he had a record out on ESP, which was known for its recordings of Alber Ayler. I think James is on a Zorn record. .. unless it is a different Bob James. jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 10:53:49 CDT From: U19807@UICVM.BITNET Subject: RE: record stores METLAY: You mean to tell me that the record stores in Tenn. actually have separate bins for electronic stuff? There is nooooo justice in the world any- more. If I remember correctly,only stores specializing in Punk/Alternative music (Wax Trax,for example) up here do anything comparible. It figures.... -Chris Krolczyk P.S. The store I was talking about IS more'n a bit stodgy,though....that could be the reason why they had no Stockhausen,et al. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 15:32:34 +0100 From: White Rabbit Subject: Composer's DeskTop Project Anyone (more likely to be UK members of the list, I think) out there know anything about the CDP? As far as I know, they have a software system based around Csound and Cmusic running on Ataris, and giving delayed-playback synthesis via a hard disk and a buffer for use with a Sony F501 mastering onto videotape... they do other bits and pieces of sound manipulation software, and it all seems VERY cheap... Anyone know of a rough price of their hardware (I know software prices), and have an idea of the kind of calculation-time to music-length ratio? Also, is it still only Atari specific, or have they started development for any other machines eg the Archimedes ( a 30Mhz ARM3 would probably come close to real-time methinks...) Is there anyone out there who has used their software and hardware? Or does anyone know if they can be contacted by email? ******************************************************************************* White Rabbit : found in these burrows * * JANET : sxa@uk.ac.dl.cxa * Internet : sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk * ...and the dormouse said EARN/Bitnet: sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk@UKACRL * UUCP : sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk@ukc.uucp * feed your head. Ean : sxa%cxa.dl.ac.uk@ean-relay.ac.uk * ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 18:14:00 EDT From: METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET Subject: Computer Music journal Vol. 14 #2 Has anyone seen the latest issue of the CMJ? It has an article by an arrogant dipshit with whom I've had some dealings in the past; I can't get to a copy down here in Tennessee, and I'd like to read his article so I can write an appropriately foam-at-the-mouth letter to the editor. Could someone help me out with a Xerox of the article in question? thanx in advance, metlay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 13:47:00 EST From: "Richard S. Holmes" Subject: RE: Computer Music Journal 14, #2 Metlay, I copied that article you wanted (pp. 73-83). You're right: Geez, what a jerk! Almost as bad as a certain little twerp I keep running into here in Syracuse. It's virtually in the mail. Rich Holmes =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | Richard S. Holmes | | | | Physics Department | (315)443-5973 | rich@suhep.bitnet | | Syracuse University | or -2701 | rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu | | Syracuse, NY 13244 | | | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- DISCLAIMER: I have no opinions. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 10:59:04 CDT From: U19807@UICVM.BITNET Subject: RE: Computer Music Journal METLAY: Sorry that I can't help you out on this one,but I'm intrigued....just out of curiosity,tell me (privately,if possible) what this dude did to you or why he's such a dope. It sounds like this is interesting. -Chris Krolczyk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 11:58:59 EDT From: MTG@CSI.COMPUSERVE.COM Subject: CSound and Samplers (and Amigas) > i) A program that allows the amiga to play back 8 samples at > a time, each channel being pannable in stereo (it is possible, > I half started to write such a program, but other more > profitable projects got in the way...) ??? Never knew it was possible! I thought you were pretty much limited to the 4 audio channels out. Never heard of anything like this. > ii) A program that allows the amiga to be used as a MIDI controlled > sample playback machine, ie plug keyboard into MIDI interface, > and the use the amiga as a sampling keyboard... This I've heard of. You've got some choices: I have SoundScape's Pro MIDI Music Studio, which let's you do this. Subsequently, I'm pretty sure Bars & Pipes allows the same, since it's by the same author. Another good possibility might be the Oasis package; in addition to letting you play Amiga samples this way, you can also load Mirage sample disks (!) direct from the Amiga's drive. I think the Oasis might be better for this; primarily because SoundScape would force me to divide each sound by octave and I couldn't do splits or breaks anywhere in between or elsewhere. I don't know if Bars & Pipes fixes this problem, tho... it might. While I've got all of yer's attention, I just bought me an [Alesis] HR-16 [drum machine] last night... I'm hoping $300 wasn't too bad a price. (This is without the B mod chip) I'm thinking about selling my old drum machine, an ancient Yamaha RX-15 (?); it's the one with all the regular sounds (not the exotic percussion one). Anyone have any guestimates on what I might fetch for this? I don't wanna rip anyone off, but if I didn't need the money, I wouldn't be selling it... :) - Mark G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 14:08:56 BST From: "Benjamin M. J. Ellis :->" Subject: Re: CSound and Samplers (and Amigas) Hello, long time no post! Can anyone tell me if CSound is avaliable for the Amiga??? (or if ANY of the c-xxxxx programs are avaliable on the amiga). Also (yes, sorry, there's more), are there any other music synthesis programs from the amiga, particularly I'm after: i) A program that allows the amiga to play back 8 samples at a time, each channel being pannable in stereo (it is possible, I half started to write such a program, but other more profitable projects got in the way...) ii) A program that allows the amiga to be used as a MIDI controlled sample playback machine, ie plug keyboard into MIDI interface, and the use the amiga as a sampling keyboard... ...While I'm on the subject of sampling keyboards, can anyone recommend any cheap 2nd hand samplers I should look out for, 'cos at the moment I'm looking for a voice box for my current project (a bass guitar MIDI controller), and a sampler struck me as ideal for a first off... - Benjamin U.K.C. England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engineering is the fine art of balancing dreams against life's harsh realities. ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------- E-mail: bmje.ukc.ac.uk : Snail Mail: B.M.J. Ellis, University of Kent : 33 Parkfield, at Canterbury : Chorleywood, England : Herts. WD3 5AZ ------------------------------------+-------------- England -------------------- "Today I am a small blue thing, like a marble or an eye... I am cool and smooth and curious, I never blink, I am turning in your hand, turning in your hand small blue thing..." - Suzanne Vega. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 09:42:08 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: CSound on Mac? Anybody have CSound running on a Macintosh? The History file at the MIT ftp site implies that they've got it running on a Mac II with Think C, but the tarfile doesn't seem to have anything relevant to Think C (there is a Mac-format Makefile, but it's for MPW). Thanks, --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 07:36:13 EDT From: Jouni Alkio - the Happy Dreamer Subject: Disco music and Taste Tony Jewell (-) commented my rolodex file: !Dear Jouni, > NAME: Jouni A. Alkio (pseudonym NEO) > HOME ADDRESS: Raelssintie 16 G 87, 00720 Helsinki, FINLAND, EUROPE -You ought to be careful giving your home address after a comment like: -(You might get hate mail from England !) Nah. I don't think so. I would like to get some mail from the U.K. I am not living in a hidden cave u know. (Perhaps I ought not to give my email address either, so that I wouldn't get any hate e-mail from England...) > Influences: early Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, mixed "New Age" music, > actually all REAL synth music (hate disco, don't like > acidhouse very much...) -That last comment I take to infer that you do not consider disco or house to be -real synth music, possibly this is a fair comment, although I must admit I'm -not sure I agree. People have different tastes. BTW, have you ever thought about how much of the success of HIT disco etc bands is due advertising, promo videos, etc? -Just to explain - I write mainly House music or Disco-Pop (aka Pet Shop Boys, -New Order), although I do consider myself to be a serious musician. The reasons I mostly like New Order. What I meant was that MOST of disco music doesn't interest me in any way. I like to listen to ACID in a club but I wouldn't do it at home with headphones in darkness... (That's something I CAN do with the stuff I really like.) -for this are manyfold: A number of years ago I was in an "experimental" synth -based group, yet I find writing popular music far more challenging than -experimental music. If we produced a tape of our music and played it to people, -the usual reaction was - "Oh, that's a piece of experimental sysnthesiser music" - "Well, do you like it ?" - "Well I don't know anything about it experimental music !" This is very normal because most people do like/buy/dance to mainstream music. Why should *I* like that? -However, if I produce what I reckon to be a killer piece of House/dance music, -then almost everyone I know knows something about that, and they tend to be a -lot more critical - you'd be suprised the amount the man on the street knows -about production, mixing and arranging, and I've had a lot of useful feedback -from people. Of course, if a friend of yours knows more about disco music, then he/she can be more critical in that genre. The point is that I don't want to make music to entertain people, but myself. If somebody likes it, that's o.k., if not, that's o.k. too. (I DO accept criticism from people, but mostly from the ones who know something about or make electronic music themselves. -I know there's a lot of rubbish synth based music in the charts at the moment, -but I also think that the availabilty of cheap synths and sampling to the This is true. And this is why I can't say I usually like chart music... -masses has done a lot to pull synth music out of the rut it was stuck in in -the early eighties, with aging bands like Tangerine Dream et al, as well as -J M Jarre dominating the synth scene, and the (IHMO) bland semi-classical stuff -labeled as New Age. Rut? *I* think that "modern" disco music is much more rutted than early TaDream for example. I know that there is much rubbish new age, too. But there is much good new age, as well. And remember, these are only MY opinions. Even so, if I *try* to think objectively, I think that modern disco music has generally far less musical value than electronic music in general. -The discovery of synths by people who have never heard of TD or Klaus Shulze, -and therefore don't feel any desire to copy or imitate these people and their -techniques has meant that many new and exciting approaches to synths have been -born. Don't write these people off as non-musicians - more experimental people -like the KLF, the Orb, Renegade Soundwave to name but a few have produced some -of the most interesting and challenging synth music I have heard for years. I don't think Renegade Soundwave is very experimental, but I do like it a bit. At least it is one of the best house etc. bands I have heard. Still, I like Klaus Schultze, early Gary Numan, Soft Cell or Roedelius more. This argument doesn't possibly have much value for the netters, so if you want to continue, please email. Jouni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 09:53:54 BST From: Tony Jewell Subject: Real Synth Music ? Dear Jouni, > NAME: Jouni A. Alkio (pseudonym NEO) > HOME ADDRESS: Raelssintie 16 G 87, 00720 Helsinki, FINLAND, EUROPE You ought to be careful giving your home address after a comment like: (You might get hate mail from England !) > Influences: early Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, mixed "New Age" music, > actually all REAL synth music (hate disco, don't like > acidhouse very much...) That last comment I take to infer that you do not consider disco or house to be real synth music, possibly this is a fair comment, although I must admit I'm not sure I agree. Just to explain - I write mainly House music or Disco-Pop (aka Pet Shop Boys, New Order), although I do consider myself to be a serious musician. The reasons for this are manyfold: A number of years ago I was in an "experimental" synth based group, yet I find writing popular music far more challenging than experimental music. If we produced a tape of our music and played it to people, the usual reaction was "Oh, that's a piece of experimental sysnthesiser music" "Well, do you like it ?" "Well I don't know anything about it experimental music !" However, if I produce what I reckon to be a killer piece of House/dance music, then almost everyone I know knows something about that, and they tend to be a lot more critical - you'd be suprised the amount the man on the street knows about production, mixing and arranging, and I've had a lot of useful feedback from people. I know there's a lot of rubbish synth based music in the charts at the moment, but I also think that the availabilty of cheap synths and sampling to the masses has done a lot to pull synth music out of the rut it was stuck in in the early eighties, with aging bands like Tangerine Dream et al, as well as J M Jarre dominating the synth scene, and the (IHMO) bland semi-classical stuff labeled as New Age. The discovery of synths by people who have never heard of TD or Klaus Shulze, and therefore don't feel any desire to copy or imitate these people and their techniques has meant that many new and exciting approaches to synths have been born. Don't write these people off as non-musicians - more experimental people like the KLF, the Orb, Renegade Soundwave to name but a few have produced some of the most interesting and challenging synth music I have heard for years. There, I've got that off my chest - I can cool down now and go back to work ! -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony J Jewell Systems Officer City Of London Polytechnic ___ . ___ JANET: tonyj@uk.ac.clp.unixa / \ / / \ EARN/BitNet: tonyj@unixa.clp.ac.uk / / /___ / EAN: tonyj%clp.unixa@ean-relay.ac.uk <____/ <___ / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 11:33:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: re: Real Synth Music >From: Tony Jewell >with aging bands like Tangerine Dream et al, as well as >J M Jarre dominating the synth scene Just what is wrong with aging bands? 8-) I know my band is aging, too. And et al has long been one of my favorites. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 01:28:00 -0400 From: Neil Gould Subject: EFFECTive LOOPing Subject: loop effects thru amp >I hope someone out there can help me with this. I have a craig >60 watt amp with what it calls loop capabilities for effects >pedals.(i.e. line out to effect and line in from effect) I am >using an MXR metal distortion pedal with my guitar and when I try >to use it in the loop method it sounds like it's staticy(sp?) and >it goes lower in volume. > >There are no directions I can find to tell how to loop an effect, >just that the amp has this effect. Can anyone out there tell me >how to use this loop capability correctly and how to hook it up >so as to maximize a good sound? > It sounds like you have level-matching problems. Usually, the effects send from an AMP is at "line-level", or 1v peak to peak (p-p). The return is also line level. The input to most pedal- type effects is "intsrument-level", which is very near "mic- level", or about 100mv p-p. The output level of most pedal effects is also "instrument-level", as the normal use for these is to plug an instrument into the input, and plug the output into the instrument input of an amp. In plain english, you are probably overdriving the pedal with the effect send (by about 10x), unless it has a level control on it that allows you to attenuate the signal, and not returning enough signal to drive the output of the amp adequately. If this is the case, your effect unit won't survive long... -- neil gould + aa330@cleveland.freenet.edu + SysOp: Video Arts Department -- my opinions are available for rent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 16:08:00 BST From: JPT4@VAXA.YORK.AC.UK Subject: fractals, chaos and MIDI I'm making a package for use on the Atari which outputs music generated using chaotic equations and processes and fractal patterning through MIDI. Some of the results sound incredibly 'natural' and listeners have been surprised to discover that the music was generated by the computer not a human composer. Is there anyone out there who has also done any work similar to this? If so, perhaps it would be worth (literally) comparing notes. I'll be over in Stanford, California at their CCRMA for a year starting September 1991 to make further research in the application of chaos theory and fractals to the electro-acoustic compositional environment. Anyone interested in any of this??? TTFN. Jan Thomas (email jpt4@uk.ac.york.vaxa) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 16:18:15 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: fractals, chaos and MIDI > Is there anyone out there who has also done any work similar to this? If so, > perhaps it would be worth (literally) comparing notes. Well, there's a guy here at work who's been messing with using fractals to determine pitch in musical phrases. He's started to experiment with rhythm, but I haven't heard any results yet. Some of his early stuff was pretty impressive, though -- he did something with a violin patch that was quite effective. > Anyone interested in any of this??? I certainly am. I'd be interested to hear about the different algorithms you've been working with -- unfortunately, I have no way of running Atari software. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 14:06:15 EDT From: Tapio Subject: Kawai K-1 II and K-4 (U 20?) Hi! I have just done a comparison test between the new Kawai K-1 II and the *fabulous* K-4. The difference in sound quality is staggering, in particular as far as piano samples are concerned. There's no question about it: the 16-bit K-4 is a clear winner as compared with the 8-bit K-1 II. There's a noticeable harshess in the piano sounds of the K-1, which is totally absent in K-4. The latter has the best sounds I have ever heard; the piano, for example, is very lifelike. I was able to pick the K-4 up with less than $1000 from a local music store (the K-1 II would have been less than $600). I would like to know if anybody has been able to compare the K-4 and Roland U-20 side by side? At least on paper they both look very comparable. Btw, this was the first time I have played a weighted synth. Although the keyboard on K-4 (and K-1 II also) has an excellent feeling, there's still some development to do before a really piano-like touch can be achieved. Of course, it is a different instrument altogether... -Tapioca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 04:53:00 EDT From: Craig Hicks Subject: Lexicon Prices Well, I have finally decided to take the effex plunge and invest in a Lexicon LPX-1 and possibly an MRC as well. Can anyone out there in list-land give me an idea of what the going price is on these things? I want to know how much I can expect to have to shell out, and don't have any trustworthy pals in the music store biz. - Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 15:56:35 EDT From: Cecilia Tan Subject: Mag filings tape Hi ho, it's me again. Sorry I've been so silent but I'm in a theater company and our summer production is of epic proportions... and I haven't been home very much. HOWEVER, I still have a few emusic-l compilation tapes to get in the mail. I think that next week I will be sinding off to the following people: Kurt Geisel Bill Flowers Gearge Buckner Mark Storrings Dave Scalzi and Haim Levkowitz if he will send me postage. My address for the time being should be my work address since I have no permanent home right now: Cecilia Tan Beacon Press 25 Beacon Street Boston, MA 02108 (617)742-2110 This e-mail account will be dying as of July 1, but I will be trying to get a new one. Can anyone tell me of a public access node I could telnet to? Thanks all for your infinite patience and get ready for Mag Filings II! -ctan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 16:01:43 EDT From: Cecilia Tan Subject: Mag Filings TWO I guess I should be more specific about this. In September I hope to have a permanent residence etc... in Boston, MA. So, I think I would like to begin collecting submissions for the next edition/volume of MAGNETIC FILINGS, The Emusic-l Compilation, in September. (Hint: Start working on your pieces now!) I'll collect pieces from September probably into mid-October. Setting the release of the next tape for around Thanksgiving (to beat the Christmas mail rush...). This schedule is tentative, but I think that should give everyone plenty of time to get their chops up and tapes ready. For those people who are away for the summer, they'll have afew weeks to get in there, too. DO NOT SEND ME TAPES YET!!!!! I'll take submisssions AFTER I find a home. My plans this year include going to a professional tape duplicator, and maybe comissioning some computer artwork for the sleeve (maybe doing it myself. We'll see. See ya in September! -ctan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 11:29:22 SST From: Gan Seum-Lim Subject: MPU-401 I tried setting the MPU-IPC-T (MPU-401 for PC) to UART mode and send midi codes directly from the host computer to a synth, but nothing happened. I even tried sending it through the MPU by sending a request to send and then the MIDI data, also, nothing happened. Does anyone know what's the problem or is there anything I did wrong ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 23:09:55 EET From: Mikko Laanti Subject: Re: MPU-401 Try FTP some MPU-401 source code (C-language) from 128.54.16.1 Mikko Laanti ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 13:42:06 PDT From: The vlsi-mentor Super User Subject: RE: MPU-401 >I tried setting the MPU-IPC-T (MPU-401 for PC) to UART mode and >send midi codes directly from the host computer to a synth, but >nothing happened. I even tried sending it through the MPU by >sending a request to send and then the MIDI data, also, nothing >happened. >Does anyone know what's the problem or is there anything I did wrong ? How are you sending the bytes to the MPU? WHich port are you writing? If you like, send me your code and I'll look at it. I've done a fair amount of coding for this beast... ---- Dave Hayes dave@vlsi-mentor.jpl.nasa.gov dave%vlsi-mentor@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov "The word 'choice' is a fraud when one is taught what to choose." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 23:32:01 PDT From: Dave Hayes Subject: RE: MPU-401 Offhand, I think you have the command and data ports switched. You must also check the DRR and DSR flags (consult your manual) to see if the device is ready to read/write. Finally, try reading the $FE (ack) from the MPU AFTER you set the thing to UART mode. [TO other list readers...if this is inappropriate, let me know and I'll shut up! :) ] ---- Dave Hayes dave@vlsi-mentor.jpl.nasa.gov dave%vlsi-mentor@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov "The word 'choice' is a fraud when one is taught what to choose." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 11:13:35 SST From: Gan Seum-Lim Subject: RE: MPU-401 Hi , thanks for the reply. I just started writing codes for the MPU-401, to be more accurate , just started on MIDI coding. I am using Turbo-C to write the program. The port addresses I found out are : COMMAND Port at $331, DATA Port at $330. What I did was first I send $3F to command port to set the mpu to uart mode then I send the midi data to play a note to the data port (e.g. $90 $45 $37). This is just my first program on this beast and it is a test program to see and check what I think is correct. It seems that I mat be wrong somewhere. I did try capturing data from the port via the MPU function, and it seems to work. However, i did not confirm the midi data I captured is correct. Hope things will work out soon and THANKS ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 14:21:15 EDT From: Jouni Alkio - the Happy Dreamer Subject: Rolodex file NAME: Jouni A. Alkio (pseudonym NEO) HOME ADDRESS: Raelssintie 16 G 87, 00720 Helsinki, FINLAND, EUROPE HOME PHONE: 90-3512527 (in Finland) EMAIL ADDRESSES: Internet/Usenet Jalkio@cc.Helsinki.FI Bitnet Jalkio@finuh EQUIPMENT OWNED: Atari MEGA 4 ST Yamaha FB 01 (Going to sell it soon) Korg MS20 Symbolic Composer (a LISP-based composition software) PREVIOUSLY OWNED: Yamaha TX81Z Roland MT32 Korg M1 Kawai K4 EQUIPMENT DESIRED: Korg WaveStation (will probably get one as soon as I can) Oberheim Xpander or Matrix 12 + some DSP's for them Perhaps an Yamaha SY77 (without the sequencer and the keyboard, preferably) Style: would like to do somehting totally new electric folk music (like Kraftwerk) AI experimenting? good old futurist stuff (seems a bit ironic, doesn't it?) Influences: early Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, mixed "New Age" music, actually all REAL synth music (hate disco, don't like acidhouse very much...) I have sold my synths lately, and I haven't made any new music for over an year. I made two tapes of my early music, though. I am going to get some synths which I'll keep for a long time - I'm fed up with changing equipment all the time. Perhaps the main candidate for my first long-term synth is the WS. That is partly because I may get it quite cheap. I translate Korg manuals from English to Finnish, you see. But if it won't be good enough, I won't get it. (I made almost all of my songs with the MT32 only - I made nothing with the K4 or the M1, the MT32 became too limited and non-professional, though. I still might get a D110 for percussion...) I have recently got the Symbolic Composer, which is a very interesting AI composition software. I haven't got time to study it yet, though. But I will... And I will start making music again, as soon as I get a decent synth. Other interest are: general life (it is VERY NICE to be a human being). parapsychology, dreams. Especially Out of Body Experiences and Lucid Dreaming. At this time I am "officially" studying computer science at the university of Helsinki. This is my first year and I am already fed up with it. Perhaps I'll try to get into Cognitive Science. I think that is the most interesting they teach here... (I wish I could study parapsychology...) I don't really want to study officially at all, I could do it at my own time at home, for example, but it is economically worthwhile to be a student. If I would get a HUGE sum of money, I would become "a free person". In Finland you must do a lot of work to get your rent and food paid, you see. The prices are veery high. That's it for now, Jouni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 15:39:36 EDT From: Jouni Alkio - the Happy Dreamer Subject: Summer NAMM? Has any of you netters visited the summer NAMM? Or heard some strange news from there? (Especially anything about Korg WS would be appreciated.) If so, please post to the net. Jouni ------------------------------ End of EMUSIC-L digest ******************************