EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 28, Number 5 This issue's topics: Ensoniq VFX: Wakeman and autopsy (12 messages) CUBASE Score Editor Korg Wavestation: One to beam down... Re: Holding notes through patch changes. (3 messages) Korg Mailing List Music Notation Program - Finale passion (3 messages) Digital Hard Disk Recording Hardware/Software sequencers//Yamaha QY10//Bus cable snake Your EMUSIC-D moderator is Joe McMahon. Please send articles to emusic-L@auvm.american.edu (or EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET). Administrative mail should be directed to xrjdm@scfvm.nasa.gov. Digests will be distributed semi-monthly to monthly. For faster response to questions, subscribe to EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET (or emusic-l@auvm.american.edu). The EMUSIC-L discussion group can alo be accessed via bit.listserv.emusic-l on Usenet. Subscribers to this list may send articles to EMUSIC-D@AUVM.BITNET (or emusic-d@auvm.american.edu); they will be reviewed and forwarded to EMUSIC-L. Back issues are available from xrjdm@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov. This is a manual operation, so requests for things like "all back issues" will take a long time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 91 19:23:04 EDT From: JSMOR@CONNCOLL.BITNET Subject: wakeman In response to the Yes/VFX thing: Wakeman spent a lot of years touring with ARPs and Moogs, I'm sure that most problems he is faced with on the road today seem relatively minor. However, the most important part of his rig is the technician that goes with it. In addition, he's probably touring with almost two complete rigs. This way, he's always got a spare. I'm not sure of this, but on a major stadium tour such as this one (which you should see if you get a chance, it's quite a show) he's probably equipped to go on no matter what goes wrong. I do know for sure that Adrian Belew (who uses a very impressive rig of guitar synths and effects and other neat toys) travels with two rigs, which are always running in parallel. Should something go wrong with one, he can flip a switch, and be on line with the backup system. Too bad we all can't afford that luxury. Jon Morris (jsmor@conncoll.bitnet) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 91 13:51:05 PDT From: "Michael R. Kesti" Subject: Re: VFX >it was interesting...to see a VFX-sd used by Rick Wakeman... I wonder how many spares they carry? Could you afford to carry them? Also, I'd bet the patch data is VERY securely backed up! ============================================================================ Michael Kesti Grass Valley Group, Inc. | "And like, one and one don't make mrk@gvgspd.GVG.TEK.COM | two, one and one make one." !tektronix!gvgpsa!gvgspd!mrk | - The Who, Bargain ========================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 13:08:19 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Ensoniq VFX: One to beam up... As of today I am a Korg Wavestation owner rather than an Ensoniq VFX owner. I'm sure y'all know the reasons why I ditched the VFX: buggy software which is never going to be fixed, unreliable hardware, unpredictable and unrecoverable failures during use, discontinuation of support by Ensoniq for the VFX, lack of information from, or support by, Ensoniq GB for their customers or dealers, zero success getting through to Ensoniq GB's technical staff. Much kudos to Rainbow Music Edinburgh who, despite me telling them about all these hassles, agreed to what is pretty well an new-for-old deal to trade in the VFX for a WS. I spent the last few weeks waiting with fingers crossed for them to shift the other second-hand VFX in order to take mine, but they agreed to do the trade anyway. Cost to me: L350, which (comparing list or street prices) means I've had a year's rent of a VFX for around L150. Rainbow kept insisting on knocking their price down, though - I suggested L400 initially, they said nah, we'll do it for L375, and this morning said, nah, that's too much, we'll just take L350, VISA will do fine. These guys are pure gold. Of course, it's money I can't afford, but I need to be rid of this VFX for live work I'm preparing. I'll be writing a very critical letter to Ensoniq GB (CC: Ensoniq US) in a few days, telling them my whole story. I'm going to miss the clear, punchy sound of the VFX, but I'll spend the next few months paying off some debts and then check out the SQ/R rack, *if* I can be convinced that it works. In the meantime, I've got now got a Wavestation. Tons of versatility and power, not a terribly clear punchy sound compared to the VFX, but it'll do. I'm starting the composition work for a contemporary dance performance in a few days, and the WS will do nicely, and it'll be nice to prepare a live set without worrying about keyboard crashes. To Ensoniq VFXsd owners in the US: get your machine upgraded to the new keyboard, or turn the machine into an SD-1 or SD-2 with the new-generation all-problems-solved keyboard. To Ensoniq VFX owners in the US: you have my sympathy. To all Ensoniq owners in the UK: you have my sympathy. To the VFX mailing list: I'll be signing off soon, but you have my email address if you have questions or anything, and I'll be around on rec.music.synth and EMUSIC-L. EPILOGUE: So, I was in Rainbow this morning, chatting to the Korg rep. about WS PCM cards and all the rest. I can't have been in more than 30 seconds when a guy comes in with a second VFX in a box, and isn't pleased. Keyboard calibration faults, system error 144, random notes playing, etc. etc. Know all about it, sez I, pointing to the VFX which is no longer mine. The Korg rep. thought this was rather amusing, he dropped in to do some business and two knackered VFX's turn up within five minutes. Anyway, I sez to this other guy, looking at the box: VFXsd, huh? There are fixes for that, you can get the keyboard upgraded to an SD-1 or something. No, he says, this isn't a VFXsd; it's an SD. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 14:56:21 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Epilogue... In article <10207@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk>, I wrote > Anyway, I sez to this other guy, looking at the box: VFXsd, huh? There > are fixes for that, you can get the keyboard upgraded to an SD-1 or > something. No, he says, this isn't a VFXsd; it's an SD. Much as I hate to deflate my own punchlines, I've been thinking this over... The guy said SD-2 and I was wondering about that since I thought the SD-2 was the new 76-key job. Now, perhaps he said 'sd-II and I misheard (:-)) in which case, perhaps the 3rd generation keyboards do indeed fix the problem. Whatever; it's no longer of concern to me, thank goodness. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 11:58:29 GMT From: Kathleen Russell Subject: Re: VFX In message ?? THOMASDL%UIUCVMD.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU writes: > it was interesting, after all the criticisms of the VFX recently posted > here, to see a VFX-sd used by Rick Wakeman during the current "Yes" tour. > > David T. > Champaign, IL > I understand that instrument techs on the Yes Union tour have their hands full. I was a stagehand for one of their recent shows and there were far more people under the stage running things than there were on the stage. I understand they lost MIDI for about a minute and a half during the show -- pretty scarey. KMR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 12:00:57 GMT From: Kathleen Russell Subject: Re: VFX In message ?? Joe McMahon writes: > >it was interesting, after all the criticisms of the VFX recently posted > >here, to see a VFX-sd used by Rick Wakeman during the current "Yes" tour. > > > On wonders how many more were out in the truck. :-) > > And yes, I still love mine - I haven't had any problems yet. I just grit my > teeth before each power-up... > > --- Joe M. > I suppose if you have a person whose purpose in life is to make sure your equipment is up and running you don't have to worry about it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 91 14:32:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: re: Wakeman's VFX >From: THOMASDL@UIUCVMD.BITNET >it was interesting, after all the criticisms of the VFX recently posted >here, to see a VFX-sd used by Rick Wakeman during the current "Yes" tour. If I am remembering correctly, he had two of them at Kalamazoo. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 11:55:23 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: VFX >I was a stagehand for one of their recent shows Hey, care to talk about it? (Assuming you're allowed to and want to.) I'm curious how much work is involved in setting up, checking connections, running cables, etc. etc. etc. and what all those technical folks were required to do during the set. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 10:04:00 CDT From: greg@IHLPM.ATT.COM Subject: Re: VFX Hi, Your post caught my interest, and I was hoping for more information... >I understand that instrument techs on the Yes Union tour have their hands full. >I was a stagehand for one of their recent shows and there were far more people >under the stage running things than there were on the stage. I understand they >lost MIDI for about a minute and a half during the show -- pretty scarey. > >KMR Do you know if this (loss of MIDI) was during a song, or in between songs? I would imagine that loosing MIDI in the middle of a song would wreak havoc on stage, even if it only lasted a short time. If it did occur during a song, how well were they able to cover (did you notice something wrong, or did you find out through other means)? Some more general questions come to mind. In a concert of YES caliber how independent would the various musician's MIDI equipment be? I would imagine several independent sequencers kept in sync with MIDI time signals (or would it be SMPTE?). Thus I assume loosing MIDI would imply loosing this time signal (unless the comment above applies to Rick Wakeman's MIDI setup (or someone elses) only). I suppose the alternative is one monster sequencer in charge of every detail of the song (maybe even the whole show???). That seems like it would be a huge job to combine every musician's MIDI information (and probably lighting, and mixing events) into a single sequence. Now that I've mentioned it, how much of a part does MIDI play in coordinating lighting and sound with the performance? I can see the potential, but I'm wondering just how much depends on MIDI in a sophisticated show such as YES puts on. Does the light and sound equipment rely on MIDI as well, or is the syncronization obtained with SMPTE (or something else), with each piece of equipment using its own method of doing its thing in time with the "global" time information? I guess I can see lots of possible uses, I'm just wondering how much the performers are actually willing to be dependent on keeping in sync with an unaltering time base (and having to deal with having it going hawire at times). Humans seem to be much better at re-syncing to the rest of the band after they have had a glitch than computers are :-). Anyone out there with any insight they are willing to share? Just wondering, -- Greg Youngdahl AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL att!ihlpm!greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 11:49:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: re: VFX >From: "Michael R. Kesti" >>it was interesting...to see a VFX-sd used by Rick Wakeman... >I wonder how many spares they carry? Could you afford to carry them? Also, >I'd bet the patch data is VERY securely backed up! At the Kalamazoo show Wakeman had two VFXs in his set-up. There was one point in the show where one of his keyboards stopped working (he played a line on the upper keyboard, there was no sound, so he dropped down to the keyboard below) but I did not note which keyboard it was. Besides the VFXs he had a Cheeta, a Roland D-70, a Korg T-1, and an M-1 and two others I am not remembering at the moment. In contrast, Tony Kaye had only two keyboards on stage. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 11:00:24 EST From: Kathleen Russell Subject: Re: VFX In message ?? greg%IHLPM.ATT.COM@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU writes: > %Do you know if this (loss of MIDI) was during a song, or in between > songs? I would imagine that loosing MIDI in the middle of a song would wreak > havoc on stage, even if it only lasted a short time. If it did occur during > a song, how well were they able to cover (did you notice something wrong, or > did you find out through other means)? > The loss of MIDI was during a song, I believe. I had gone back to the loading dock to prepare for the load out so I wasn't listening closely enough to hear what actually happened. A friend of mine in the audience did notice that something was wrong, however. He said that three people [I don't remember who at the moment] stopped playing. During the break between the regular show and the encore I overheard Bill Bruford, Steve Howe and Chris Squire talking about some weirdness that had gone on but I didn't really catch everything that they said. I actually found out what happened from someone that was running a truss spot that night that must have heard the what was happening over the headphones. I don't know how much of the show was depending on MIDI. I know that some of the lighting is sychronized with MIDI or something similar. Yes used a pretty even mixture of Varilights and traditional lights and had separate operators for each type. Actually, I was surprised they didn't have more Varilights. I did become acquainted with the Varilight person and if I ever hear from him again I will ask him about more of the specifics. Interestingly enough, this was not the most technically complicated show I have ever stagehanded for. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles win that award. KMR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 13:43:00 CST From: CBN76032@ACUVAX.BITNET Subject: YES and the VFX I have been reading all the great input of the YES tour and the usage of the VFX form the NMUSIC list I found a list for the YES group. It might be nice to see what can be found out about the VFX configuration and MIDI set up from this , If they will tell us. Address below Yes/A.B.W.H. - v111PBXX@UBCMS.cc.Buffalo.EDU Mngr: v111PBXX@UBVMS.cc.Buffalo.EDU : Cathy Leak thanks for all the great input Cliff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 91 07:53:16 GMT From: Savino Grillo Subject: CUBASE Score Editor Hi netters, Anyone out there tried to use the CUBASE (1.0 - 1.51 - 2.0) Score Editor? We are four people over here having the same problem: Using the score editor to edit existing notes it's not such a big problem but starting from SCRATCH it's a real issue!! Before using any editors you've to create a part in the arrange windows and then edit it with, in our case, the Score editor. Once you're in the Score window you can see 5 rests on the staff ( more or less dependes how long you created the part) at this point you should set the snap and quantize value,select the note tool from the toolbox and put your note on the staff... but...every time I always get a lenght note different from what I selected trough the Quantize Box. I did not understand yet what is the logic behind this behaviour... Any help?? Thanx in Advance Savino. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 13:08:38 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Korg Wavestation: One to beam down... As you've probably gathered, I'm now a Wavestation owner. I've sent off for the "L180 worth of free software" which seems to amount to two free RAM-cards populated with PD patches. Not much use to me, but I'll dump the patches off to the Mac and try to trade the physical cards back for a PCM percussion data card. I'll be implementing librarian support for the WS fairly soon, I expect, so if you have any hints or questions about the SysEx spec., let's talk. I managed to find a Korg mailing list, but it doesn't seem to be terribly active. Who'd be interested in a specific Wavestation list? I'll run one here if necessary, and I have a fair amount of information to mail out already. And, no, I *won't* archive patches, since you all bought a Wavestation in order to program it yourselves, didn't you? :-) Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 13:09:27 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Holding notes through patch changes. >On a grand piano the middle pedal, the sostenuto pedal, will hold a note >or notes while others are being played. First you play the note, then >press the sostenuto pedal. This holds up the damper on that one note >until the pedal is released, which sustains that one note while other >are played. I'm sure some MIDI keyboards can do this. I believe that some Ensoniq (Acht! *ptui*) keyboards will, though I may be wrong. What I was on about was holding a note on a remote instrument, or a local sound, and then changing the sound or MIDI routing under that part of the keyboard, and expecting it to hold and then release the original note/sound. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 14:37:22 EDT From: Mike Allinger Subject: Re: Holding notes through patch changes. I think the new Korg SG1-D has this feature or can recieve such a command via midi. I'm not sure because the one I own came without a manual. If you can find an old review in Keyboard or Electronic Musician that may tell you a little more. Mike Allinger M3A@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 91 16:45:00 CST From: CBN76032@ACUVAX.BITNET Subject: Go big or go little? >>Yamaha SY77, or Roland D-70 would be a better alternative to buying lots >>of little stuff? > >I don't know if I can make many comments that would be relevat yo>u 'tigoroigp au wkyadade s>of the stuff in racks. Both the keyboards I use right now happen t o be >synthesisers as well (D-50, VFX), partly because I like having the >programming interface for these two units right where I can see it, and >partly because all the dedicated controller keyboards I've seen so far >aren't as clever at controlling racks as the VFX is (or Wavestation, If money is a concern, the Korg T series is still quite expensive a T-3 is only 61 keys ( a little inadequate for a controller) and about 3000.00 the only difference between the M-1 and T-3 is the amount of internal memory in the sequencer and program memory I feel that if you have an external sequencer (program or hardware) it is more cost effective to buy a keyboard with a limited sequence memory or no sequencer at all. All I have read seems to lean toward hardware sequencer such as Korg S3 This way you can write sequences in your computer and dump them to the sequencer for live performance. these hardware sequencers are very compact and easy to transport. This all leads me to believe that a keyboard w/out a sequencer would be a more e conomic buy since the Korg M-1 uses the same AL synthesis as the T series and lists about 1385.00 You may wish to give it some serios consideration. The Roland U20 also seems to have real potential. One more consideraton upon buying a controller board most keyboard players look for full 88 keys and weighted keys ( Korg only charges about 5000.00 for a T-1) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 13:33:00 CST From: CBN76032@ACUVAX.BITNET Subject: Korg Mailing List I managed to find a Korg mailing list Nick, I would be very interested in this mailing list even if it is not to terribly active, could you please post the sucription sequence for me, and if you have the address to any other manufactures lists (or know where to look for them) I would appreciate this greatly Thanks In advance Cliff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 91 13:59:00 CST From: CBN76032@ACUVAX.BITNET Subject: Music Notation Program Finale CODA has just announced a new "ACADEMIC EDITION" of FINALE Program is now available to any student or teacher for $250.00. MUSIC PROSE isle r 500 Since this is version 2.61, future updates may have charges. You call 1-800-843-2066 (CODA) and ask for Julie Or Kirsten. You are to ask them for the name of the nearest Certified Academic Reseller. This is where you can buy the "ACADEMIC EDITION" which is a copy of the program just like regular copy - but can only be sold to students or teachers. I think this is a smart move on their part. This is just something I thought that ya'll might like to know,hope it does someone some good. Cliff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 91 10:11:01 EST From: ronin Subject: passion excuse me while i foam at the mouth for a moment, here... for some time now i have been of the distinct opinion that emusic had essentially died as a viable art. the academics are still making the same old bleeps and borps (but with newer technology), synthesists with any talent for sound design are bottled up in the 'new age' bag, 'industrial' beggars the very concept of music, there are no venues other than modern dance (and that's a cul-de-sac if i ever saw one)... frankly, it's been a downer. until i finally picked up peter gabriel's 'passion', the soundtrack for 'the last temptation of christ'. hot damn... the sob has evolved into a fullblown emusician, with his own style and energy and sound and technique and everything. yes, i know that larry fast taught him how to use the fairlight, but he's gone way beyond 'sampled tailpipes' on the audioframe (and it's not an NED! chortle, chortle... i never could stand the synclavier). he has developed an extraordinarily expressive pallette, what with his own sound design and his perfectly melded productions of ethnic instruments. he's clearly gotten into the 'frame's capacity for resampling, where you toy around with a sound, process it, modulate it, and then sample the result internally, without ever having to go analog. the effect is to produce a separate acoustic space for each tone... very rich and complex results. and the writing. sensitive. makes use of the 'world beat' idea without being patronizing. the man has an ear for structural, as well as sonic synthesis. and he does this small adagio.. i didn't know he had that in him. quite a far cry from DIY (from the first or second solo album). it's not a parody of itself; it's original, interesting, and accessible; it's tonally and compositionally sophisticated; i like it. if you haven't got it yet, i recommend it highly. --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 91 11:11:01 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: passion >excuse me while i foam at the mouth for a moment, here... >for some time now i have been of the distinct opinion that emusic >had essentially died as a viable art. >... synthesists >with any talent for sound design are bottled up in the 'new age' bag, Ah, you mean that because us poor synthesists are being labelled New Age by the ignorant masses (in the US at least), our art has died as a consequence? >hot damn... the sob has evolved into a fullblown emusician, >with his own style and energy and sound and technique and everything. Well, I have to say that some of us have been onto Gabriel for a good many years now...! I was aware of his stuff in the early 80's, but was blown away by the soundtrack to BIRDY in '85. It was this that made me decide that I'd quite like to be a musician as well. As for PASSION - yes, it's a finely crafted and impressive piece of work, for all the reasons you mention. However, I still prefer BIRDY, even though it's a lot rougher and has a few glaring editing glitches. BIRDY has, IMO, more interesting combinations of sounds and treatments, and more evocative, darker moods with a more urban feel to them. PASSION is impressive but only goes so far for me on an emotional level. I'm currently planning out another live set for later in the year, and it's BIRDY I'm listening to a lot at the moment... Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 91 11:41:13 EDT From: eric Subject: Re: passion On Tue, 14 May 91 11:11:01 BST Nick Rothwell said: > >Ah, you mean that because us poor synthesists are being labelled New Age by >the ignorant masses (in the US at least), our art has died as a >consequence? > well, sort of... that's part of it. what i really mean, i think, is that people who are good at this, who have to make a living like anyone else, have discovered that their skills are most in demand in the service of that rather limited, but popular, form. oh, and i've known about gabriel for some time, myself. and in many ways, this is not necessarily a *radical* departure for him. just a hell of an evolution, you know? haven't heard birdy, though. have to check it out. --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 91 21:39:33 EDT From: Rodney Schmidt Subject: Digital Hard Disk Recording Does anyone have experience with Digidesign's SoundTools and SampleCell? Looking for resources to consult when we start using a new MIDI facility. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 91 13:08:00 CDT From: Huey Subject: Hardware/Software sequencers//Yamaha QY10//Bus cable snake I've got a couple of questions for all of you out there in EMUSIC land. If you're easily annoyed with 'dumb' questions, best read no further. I freely admit to being more of a consumer than a producer on this list, and I have oft been accused of not having the slightest idea what I'm talking about. 1) I'm spending my summer working for my equiptment. Obvious shortfalls in my current setup are: not enough synth voices, lousy drum machine, and not a reliable enough sequencer. 1a) I'm in love with my D-50, but two tones per patch just isn't cutting it. Now I've read about this expansion board that Valhalla (Southfield,MI) makes for around $450 that gives eight voices per patch, but I haven't heard any reviews, either published or otherwise. Can anybody help with this? Any other recommendations for other outboard MIDI tone generators ( bearing in mind that I'll probably not want to spend more than $800- $1000 on the total transaction ) ? 1b) For a seqencer, I've been using Master Tracks through a Passport interface on a ( don't laugh ) Commodore-64. Needless to say, I need a substantially sharper setup than *anything* involving a commie 1541 disk drive- But I'd like to do my sequencing on a computer, as I'm not any kind of decent keyboardist. Quantizing my real-time playing usually results in a comical disaster. This makes for a big question: Is there a computer setup that anybody would trust on the road, or do you just find a software package that you're comfortable with, program at home, and then bulk-dump to some kind of sequencer playback unit ( is the new Roland Sound Brush an acceptable doo-wah in this instance? If so, how much does it cost? ) I'm not sure I trust any disk drive that's going to be tossed around by roadies, but some little rackmount thing is probably better than a PC in this department. I'd appreciate it if somebody could recommend their favorite sequencer software ( as well as the system & requirements ) and some bare-bones hardware sequencer playback thingys ( with some bulk storage, as I sequence a LOT of stuff for my shows ). 1c) I picked up the latest Guitar Player mag & found an ad for what could be a possible solution to both questions above: the Yamaha QY10. Since I live in a veritable music store-wasteland, I have no poor salesman to pester, and bunches of unanswered questions: o- is there some kind of mass storage device available for this thing? I'm going to need a disk drive on stage. o- ( again ) how much does it cost? o- Anybody out there heard the voices/samples/drum sounds? Any good? o- ...and if this thing isn't going to cut it, can anybody point me in the direction of something that will? 2) I recently came across 100' of IBM Bus cable. If I go out and nab a box of XLR connectors, can this be used as a snake? Is the resistance going to mean preamping ~everything~ at the stage end, and add mass amounts of noise with it? Is the fact that the lines in the cable are individually wrapped going to screw with balanced inputs? Do you think that the signals will bleed excessively? ( Is there any way to find out short of trying it? ) I hope I'm not wasting bandwidth, and I hope some kind soul out there can help me out- Thanks in advance, Huey ________________________________________________________________________________ wnhuey001%wsu.decnet@msus1 (.bitnet) A VAX 11/785 bigger than four fridges, wnhuey001@ececci.ece.wisc.edu A DECstation smaller than your PC... ...guess which is faster? ________________________________________________________________________________ 207 1/2 E. 4th St, Winona MN 55987 Voice: (507)-454-6309 ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************