EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 29, Number 5 This issue's topics: electric music AES/EBU, SPDiF et al .. (3 messages) MIDI retrofit for the SK-1? NeXT and emusic SY-55 questions (8 messages) SY-99 (3 messages) ob8 data drumulator (3 messages) Prophet 5 sort of... (2 messages) nick's fave rave Your EMUSIC-D moderator is Joe McMahon. Please send articles to emusic-L@auvm.american.edu (or EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET). Administrative mail should be directed to xrjdm@scfvm.nasa.gov. Digests will be distributed semi-monthly to monthly. For faster response to questions, subscribe to EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET (or emusic-l@auvm.american.edu). The EMUSIC-L discussion group can alo be accessed via bit.listserv.emusic-l on Usenet. Subscribers to this list may send articles to EMUSIC-D@AUVM.BITNET (or emusic-d@auvm.american.edu); they will be reviewed and forwarded to EMUSIC-L. Back issues are available from xrjdm@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov. This is a manual operation, so requests for things like "all back issues" will take a long time. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 91 20:09:00 EDT From: TUTTEROW@UNCG.BITNET Subject: electric music I believe the use of noise to make music will increase until we reach a music produced through the aid of electrical instruments which will make availiblefor musical purposes any and all sounds that can be heard. composer John Cage, 1937. Saw this quote the other day. Thought y'all might be interested. Kirk. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 13:53:37 BST From: Tony Jewell Subject: AES/EBU, SPDiF et al .. Last Friday I went to the APRS show in the UK ( where they show the REALLY big kit, Synclaviers and things ) to do some research for my project on D-to-D systems. One question that I'm not sure about is digital interfacing. As far as I could make out at the show, there appear to be 2 different 'standards' for interfacing digital kit - AES/EBU and SPDiF. As far as I could make out, things like my little DAT machine talk SPDiF, big kit talks AES/EBU. What exactly are they ? Which is more common, and will be more common in the future ? What exactly do the standards define ? Is it easy to convert between them ? Can I persuade my SparcStation to understand either ? Most importantly, any thoughts as to where I can find specs for these ? Sorry about asking so many questions - Any help will be gratefully accepted, and if you're ever in London, I'll buy you a pint !! Thanks in advance, Tony Jewell -- |\/\/\/| | | Tony Jewell ___ _ ___ | | Senior Systems Officer / \ / / \ | (o)(o) / / /___ / C _) JANET: jewell@uk.ac.clp.unixa <____/ <___ / | ,___| EARN/Bitnet: jewell@unixa.clp.ac.uk | / EAN: jewell%clp.unixa@ean-relay.ac.uk /____\ / \ CITY OF LONDON POLYTECHNIC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 12:50:42 EDT From: ronin Subject: Re: AES/EBU, SPDiF et al .. don't have time to reply in full, but an excellent source book for these things is The Principles of Digital Audio, by Ken Pohlmann published by Howard Sams --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 10:12:29 EDT From: Jonathan Subject: Re: AES/EBU, SPDiF et al .. S/PDIF, as i understand it, is a digital interface specification for patching 2 digital machines (e.g. for digital-digital DAT dubbing). Most consumer-level DATs and some CD players support this format. I think this was originally designed by Sony but became a de-facto standard (also called IEC 958 Type 2). I don't know anything about the format except that it uses RCA jacks for connection (don't patch it into your power amp!). AES/EBU I know a little bit more about -- I built an interface that makes a DAT look like a SCSI tape drive to a Sun workstation. AES/EBU (it stands for Audio Engineering Society/European Broadcasting Union) is a self-clocking Manchester-encoded serial interface. It runs at 256 times the sampling frequency, and allows for two channels of 24-bit digital audio transmission (there are specs for 4 channels of 16-bit data, but I don't know how common that is). In addition to the audio, there are 4 other bits per sample used for validity, parity, channel status and a user-definable bit. Note that "sample" here refers to one word of PCM data, not a whole sound as in a "sampler." The channel status gives you 24 bytes of data per 192 samples (a "block") and is organized in two formats: a consumer format, where it contains information about sampling frequency, source category (CD, DAT, etc), and control information, including the notorious SCMS (serial copy management system) data. In broadcast format, the channel status contains information aboust sampling frequency, pre-emphasis, alphanumeric fields for source and destination, a sample address and time-of-day, and a CRC error-detection byte. The physical interconnections are Cannon plugs (don't plug into your mike preamp!) If you actually want to get data from the stream, for some reason (I wouldn't suggest anything like building a SCMS defeater :) ), I recommend using chips like the Yamaha YM3437 transmitter and YM3436 receiver to encode/ decode the AES/EBU format. Because the user-definable bit gives you 24 free bytes per block, it seems to me that you could encode a MIDI stream to go in parallel with your audio data, on the same wire. (Actually two, one for each channel.) If anybody uses this idea, I want royalties! :) Anyway, that's the scoop on AES/EBU. If you want the gritty details, get the following: Audio Engineering Society, ``AES Recommended Practice for Digital Audio Engineering --- Serial Transmission Format for Linearly Represented Digital Audio Data,'' AES3-1985 (ANSI S4.40-1985), J. Aud. Eng. Soc., Vol. 33, No. 12, December 1985 Jonathan Foote : : Division of Engineering : internet: : BITNET: Brown University, Box D : jtf@lems.brown.edu : JFOOTE@BROWNVM Providence, RI 02912 : : ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 16:47:25 CDT From: THOMASDL@UIUCVMD.BITNET Subject: MIDI retrofit for the SK-1? Ok, I admit it, I like my Casio SK-1. So Ihave a question about it: I recall hearing something about a midi retrofit for the SK-1. Does anyone know anything about that? Who does it? Etc etc. (I _think_ i read about this in an old issue of Keyboard...) Thanks, David Thomas Champaign IL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 21:28:00 EDT From: TUTTEROW@UNCG.BITNET Subject: NeXT and emusic I recently recieved an account to use the NeXT here at my school but have yet to try it out. I was intrigued by the comments about the next and music from the other day. Does anyone have any specific information about the NeXT's musical capabilities and MIDI functions? Thanks. Kirk. "Tutterow@uncg.bitnet" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 22:02:12 -0400 From: jarrod norton Subject: SY-55 questions Clever little box? I would like to know if anyone here owns/uses a Yamaha SY-55. I am considerinng purchasing one. I am a MIDI "hobbyist", and am attempting to get a music group going (I know, I know, but I always wanted to at least try...) I currently have a DW6000 [which I would like to sell, BTW...]. What I would like to know is this: Is the SY-55 a good quality keyboard for the money? This would eat a large part of my cash and I would prefer not getting burned. Also, might you [the reader!] give me your idea of a fair price on a SY55? We only have one keyboard store around here which makes me suspicious. Please respond to w3663797@wilkes1.wilkes.edu [or to the list :) ] Thanks a million for your help! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 09:11:56 EDT From: Joel Kraft Subject: Re: What a clever little box.... Jarrod... I have the SY-77 and just wanted to let you know that because the SY-55 is from that same Yamaha line, you should get your money's worth... I paid an outrageous amount for the 77, but I was completeley satisfied... The AWM/AFM sounds are amazing... I believe the 55 uses much of the same technology... Make sure you get a chance to try it out first though! :) Joel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 09:25:00 EDT From: "William R(ay) Brohinsky" Subject: Re: What a clever little box.... I believe that the sy-55 is only half an sy-77: either the sample playback is missing or (more likely) the FM part is not there. That's one reason that the sy-77 costs so much more. Recent Keyboard and Electronic Musician issues had tables of various elex stuff. I don't have them here. I can't say if it's in the same price range, but if you're looking for a sample playback machine, try out the Korg M1. While you're at it, there are others as well: survey the field. raybro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 09:40:47 -0400 From: jarrod norton Subject: Re: What a clever little box.... I was looking at the '77 until I found out it was $2695, PLUS TAX!!! I fell in love with it, and fell out of love real quick when I saw the tag. The 55 impressed me too... the price they give here is $1270. Do you (or anyone else :) ) know if that is a fair price? He said he was going to throw in some free sounds and so on (but I dunno if I have to buy the cards for him to put them on... seems I shouldn't have to!) Do you know if I can buy a drive for the SY55? I know yamaha does sell external drives but I can't seem to find a port for it (unless it uses the MIDI ports) Thanks a million/jn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 08:29:44 EDT From: Rodney Schmidt Subject: Re: What a clever little box.... We have an SY-55 at our university. It is very reliable and good quality. Not as many presets or other options as SY-77, but a good value. Price? List was around $1500, if I recall correctly. State PO people got it on contract for around $1100.00. Hope this helps! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 17:47:23 GMT From: Timothy Kaufman Subject: Re: What a clever little box.... > I have the SY-77 and just wanted to let you know that because >the SY-55 is from that same Yamaha line, you should get your >money's worth... I paid an outrageous amount for the 77, but I was >completeley satisfied... The AWM/AFM sounds are amazing... I believe >the 55 uses much of the same technology... Make sure you get a chance >to try it out first though! :) > >>I believe that the sy-55 is only half an sy-77: either the sample playback >>is missing or (more likely) the FM part is not there. That's one reason >>that the sy-77 costs so much more. The SY-55 is sample playback only--no AFM. The fact that the SY-77 is such a great machine has little bearing on the 55--it was a little misleading for Yamaha to number them that way. There are a ton of sample playback synths to compare. On that note, the new Ensoniqs have my interest--have to wait and see if they turn out to be more reliable than the legendary VFX "calibration error" follies. The SQ-2 looks like the least expensive way to get a 76-note controller right now, not to mention an extremely progammable synth. Too bad it doesn't have that great polyphonic pressure (looks like it doesn't even have channel pressure). I'm trying to weigh this against $100 more for an A-50 to drive my rack. I'm wondering if the extra MIDI control with the A-50 isn't marginal, or overkill. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 09:45:13 EDT From: Joel Kraft Subject: Re: What a clever little box.... I heard a couple weeks ago from a local Yamaha dealer that Yamaha is coming out with a SY-99... It's supposed to have everything that you wish the SY-77 had... Has anyone heard anything about this? Any info would be greatly appreciated... thanks Joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 11:18:50 -0700 From: Thomas Richard Erbe Subject: Re: What a clever little box >The SQ-2 looks like the least expensive way to get a >76-note controller right now, not to mention an extremely >progammable synth. Too bad it doesn't have that great polyphonic >pressure (looks like it doesn't even have channel pressure). > >I'm trying to weigh this against $100 more for an A-50 to drive my >rack. I'm wondering if the extra MIDI control with the A-50 isn't >marginal, or overkill. > >Tim We bought an SQ-2 for exactly this reason, to get an inexpensive controller with a synth as a bonus. However, it was almost useless as a controller (as you say, no polyphonic pressure, and no channel pressure, as well as many other things that are not there). Our keyboard players (faculty and student) were complaining immediately. So what did I do? I traded it in for a Roland A-50. And everyone seems to love it. The extra MIDI control is great for getting your hands directly on your synth parameters. Expressive playing is so much more possible with a good controller. BTW, we payed 1399 for the A-50 & SQ-2 at Banana's At Large in San Rafael CA. Tom Erbe * Technical Director * Center for Contemporary Music * Mills College tom@mills.berkeley.edu * PO Box 9201, Oakland, CA 94613 * (415) 430-2191 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 22:30:29 BST From: "D.M.Shepherd" Subject: SY-99 >Yamaha is coming out with a SY-99... It's supposed to have everything >that you wish the SY-77 had... Has anyone heard anything about this? >Any info would be greatly appreciated... thanks Yes. Patrick Tsang played it at the APRS trade show and says it's basically amazing. Sounds really good and great for live playing etc ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 23:09:25 -0400 From: jarrod norton Subject: Re: SY-99 Ah... Well then. I still think the SY55 is the best choice for me... and I am CERTAIN the 99 won't be cheaper! I do intend to (eventually) use the 55 for performance. Any comments? Anyone want to talk direct about such things? 'Twould be great. Thanks a million, you guys... you've been really helpful thus far :) Jarrod Norton, Music Director, Director of Production; WCLH-FM Internet: w3663797@wilkes1.wilkes.edu Station Phone (717) 825-7663 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 11:11:19 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: SY-99 >>Yamaha is coming out with a SY-99... It's supposed to have everything >>that you wish the SY-77 had... Has anyone heard anything about this? >>Any info would be greatly appreciated... thanks > >Yes. Patrick Tsang played it at the APRS trade show and says >it's basically amazing. Sounds really good and great for live >playing etc ... Just like the D-70, JD-800, SY77, WS1, and every other box in the market. You might have aroused my curiosity if you'd at least described it as "interesting." Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 08:09:01 EDT From: ronin Subject: ob8 data got a friend here who says that he's got an OB-8 from which the data has vanished. i figure that the battery finally went. at any rate, does anyone have any bright ideas about getting a factory (or copy) data tape for the thing? i will, of course, contact the current incarnation of oberheim, but might there be alternatives? --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 08:12:06 EDT From: ronin Subject: drumulator has anyone here ever done the emu drumulator midi retrofit? any comments regarding ease, utility, and worth? and on a similar vein... wine country, as some of you probably know, sells midi retrofits for prophets. there are a $250 and a $500 version. the $500 version provides velocity sensitivity and mod wheel data control. still, it seems like a $lot. hard choice. comments/experiences? --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 10:08:00 EDT From: "b.klassen" Subject: RE: drumulator >wine country, as some of you probably know, sells midi retrofits >for prophets. there are a $250 and a $500 version. the $500 version >provides velocity sensitivity and mod wheel data control. still, it seems >like a $lot. hard choice. comments/experiences? The Prophet-5 I picked up last summer has the $250 version. I paid $550 Cdn for the beast. To pump another $500 *US* into it seems a little much to me, though the functionality would be nice. Alas, I am having problems. First, I was experiencing intermittent key contact (a note would retrigger randomly if held down). I wasn't too worried about it, since it played perfectly through MIDI. Now the thing locks up totally on power-up: no notes sound, and none of the panel buttons respond. That these problems are due to the MIDI refit is not at all clear. I have not had the time to get into it. Comments/experiences/advice gratefully accepted. -brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 10:54:51 EDT From: ronin Subject: RE: drumulator On Wed, 12 Jun 91 10:08:00 EDT b.klassen said: >... intermittent key contact (a note would retrigger randomly if >held down). I wasn't too worried about it, since it played perfectly through >MIDI... interesting. my prophet does that, and i'm fairly certain that it just needs to be cleaned again. the fact that yours does not generate the problem via midi suggests that the firmware that captures the keyboard is prior to the machine's own capture and coding, and has better debouncing. keeno. --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 07:23:56 EDT From: "D. Yuen" Subject: Re: Prophet 5 sort of... Over the last few postings there was a discussion about Prophet 5's and MIDI retrofits etc. In a semi related way can someone tell me what is a prophet 600? The 5 and the 610I am familiar with, where does the 600 fit in? asking silly questions as usual, Dan Yuen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 08:23:34 EDT From: Mike Allinger Subject: Re: Prophet 5 sort of... In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 14 Jun 91 07:23:56 EDT from Dan, The Prophet 600 came to market in 1983 (?) the same year that the DX-7 wes introduced. This was also the same year that MIDI was introduced. At the NAMM show the 600 and DX-7 were MIDI'd together with semi "disasterous" results. The bugs were ironed out and the rest is history on that count. But about the 600; the intention was to bring a low price Prophet 5 out at a time when Korg had already been successful with the Poly-6. The 600 had two oscilators that could be hard sync'd together three basic waveforms, ADSR filter and amp section and 100 user patch locations. It also had an internal sequencer. The price in 1983 was 1995.00 which wasen't bad at all. The going price these days is between 350.00 and 450.00. Thats about all I can remember, I sold mine a few years back. Hope that helps you Dan. And for the rest of you , I hope I diden't botch the facts too much. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Allinger * THIS SPACE FOR RENT M3A@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu * AA2Y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu * POST NO BILLS MIKEA@brutus.cit.cornell.edu * --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 13:11:15 EDT From: ronin Subject: nick's fave rave ok, nick... you've been ranting about the waldorf for some time now, and i finally decided to go out and audition one. surprise. can't find one. didn't last around here (DC). so... where the hell do i find it? and if it dropped out of the general market that fast, how confident can i be of its continued support if i do get one? and do you really program that thing through the panel (i saw one once, about a year ago, and it was pretty minimalist-looking... i know, i know, you've stalked about the ease of its architecture), or is there software? --------------------------< Eschew Obfuscation >------------------------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) The American University Physics Dept. Washington, D.C ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************