EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 29, Number 6 This issue's topics: Re: SQ-2 vs. A-50 (5 messages) Kawai KC-10 Spektra IFS article in CMJ Re: nick's fave rave (2 messages) Pocket Pedal (2 messages) Data dumps across the network FM Synthesis A MIDI dump puzzle (by a new subscriber) (3 messages) Greg's DDD-5 Reliable SR-16 dumps - suggestions? (2 messages) Editors for VFX and Q-verb (3 messages) Your EMUSIC-D moderator is Joe McMahon. Please send articles to emusic-L@auvm.american.edu (or EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET). Administrative mail should be directed to xrjdm@scfvm.nasa.gov. Digests will be distributed semi-monthly to monthly. For faster response to questions, subscribe to EMUSIC-L@AUVM.BITNET (or emusic-l@auvm.american.edu). The EMUSIC-L discussion group can alo be accessed via bit.listserv.emusic-l on Usenet. Subscribers to this list may send articles to EMUSIC-D@AUVM.BITNET (or emusic-d@auvm.american.edu); they will be reviewed and forwarded to EMUSIC-L. Back issues are available from xrjdm@scfvm.gsfc.nasa.gov. This is a manual operation, so requests for things like "all back issues" will take a long time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 23:10:03 GMT From: Timothy Kaufman Subject: Re: SQ-2 vs. A-50 >We bought an SQ-2 for exactly this reason, to get an inexpensive controller >with a synth as a bonus. However, it was almost useless as a controller >(as you say, no polyphonic pressure, and no channel pressure, as well as >many other things that are not there). Our keyboard players (faculty and >student) were complaining immediately. > >So what did I do? I traded it in for a Roland A-50. And everyone seems >to love it. The extra MIDI control is great for getting your hands >directly on your synth parameters. Expressive playing is so much more >possible with a good controller. > >BTW, we payed 1399 for the A-50 & SQ-2 at Banana's At Large in San Rafael >CA. > >Tom Erbe * Technical Director * Center for Contemporary Music * Mills College > tom@mills.berkeley.edu * PO Box 9201, Oakland, CA 94613 * (415) 430-2191 This is a revelation, since even the guy at Bananas told me, "For almost the same price, get the SQ-2--you get those great SOUNDS." Well, I have sounds--I need CONTROL. After struggling with a digital piano as a controller for a few years, I can tell you it is very frustrating not to be able to effectively or expediently (for live performance's sake) communicate with your rack-mount gear. I expect to be able to, on the fly, punch up a "patch" which splits the keyboard into the desired zones, each zone with the programmed MIDI channel, patch change number, transposition value, etc. And of course, I want all those programmable wheels, sliders, etc. What is the supposed bug with the A-80/A-50 sliders? Something about the position of the sliders being read when you call up a patch, rather than waiting until you move them? Is this in fact a problem for anyone? -- Tim Kaufman Controller's Office as.tlk@forsythe.stanford.edu Stanford University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 11:27:34 -0700 From: Thomas Richard Erbe Subject: Re: SQ-2 vs. A-50 >>BTW, we payed 1399 for the A-50 & SQ-2 at Banana's At Large in San Rafael >>CA. >This is a revelation, since even the guy at Bananas told me, "For >almost the same price, get the SQ-2--you get those great SOUNDS." Oops, slight correction to what I typed, We paid 1399 for the SQ-2 and then traded it in for the A-50 (even trade, since the last A-50 they sold, they sold for 1399). BTW, the sounds on the SQ-2 are nice, but the machine is sorely lacking a resonant filter. >I expect to be able to, on the fly, punch up a "patch" which splits >the keyboard into the desired zones, each zone with the programmed >MIDI channel, patch change number, transposition value, etc. This is all possible with the A-50, in addition, each zone has a velocity response curve, an aftertouch curve, modulation wheel scale, volume and pitch bend on/off. 4 zones for each patch. Plus, the patches can be set up in "chains", that is, a sequence of patches, that you can use a footswitch to sequence through. I haven't heard of the A-50 slider bug, but I will check it out. Tom Erbe * Technical Director * Center for Contemporary Music * Mills College tom@mills.berkeley.edu * PO Box 9201, Oakland, CA 94613 * (415) 430-2191 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 16:08:43 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: SQ-2 vs. A-50 >BTW, the sounds on the SQ-2 are nice, but the machine is sorely lacking a >resonant filter. Well, what isn't? The VFX was fine, actually (I don't need resonant filters since I have a MicroWave and an MKS-70) and the multimode twin filters allowed a lot of flexibility, but the SQ machines seem to be lacking voices, sample data, effects configurations, transwaves, and general versatility. I was considering an SQ/R but it seems underpowered. >This is all possible with the A-50, in addition, each zone has a velocity >response curve, an aftertouch curve, modulation wheel scale, volume and >pitch bend on/off. 4 zones for each patch. Plus, the patches can be set >up in "chains", that is, a sequence of patches, that you can use a >footswitch to sequence through. But it can't sustain notes through a configuration change, a basic capability which master keyboards seem to keep getting wrong. The VFX and Wavestation both do it. >I haven't heard of the A-50 slider bug, but I will check it out. It's not a bug (if it's what I think it is) - slider values are transmitted on new setups, according to their physical position. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 91 08:45:14 EDT From: Dean Swan Subject: Re: SQ-2 vs. A-50 > >BTW, the sounds on the SQ-2 are nice, but the machine is sorely lacking a > >resonant filter. > > Well, what isn't? Well, the TG-77 for example. I just got the tech manual on it - very neat piece of hardware. I don't regret replacing my DX-7 with it at all. > But it can't sustain notes through a configuration change, a basic > capability which master keyboards seem to keep getting wrong. The VFX and > Wavestation both do it. I'll concede to this, the A-50 does do this wrong, but so does the TG-77. One reason I got the tech manuals on it is that I'm considering doing a new set of ROM's to fix Yamaha's minor omissions (i.e. Poly pressure, the note sustaining thing, and Mapping *PATCHES* to keys for drum kits, rather than just samples. You don't get filters, envelopes, or anything with the TG drum kits. Makes me wish I still had the D-110.) -Dean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 16:08:49 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: A-80, SQ-2 >>BTW, we payed 1399 for the A-50 & SQ-2 at Banana's At Large in San Rafael >>CA. >This is a revelation, since even the guy at Bananas told me, "For >almost the same price, get the SQ-2--you get those great SOUNDS." And all those great BUGS. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 17:42:45 GMT From: Kimmo Lahtinen Subject: Kawai KC-10 Spektra I just recently bought this Kawai KC-10 Spektra keyboard and I have been quite happy with it. The dealer promised that there comes an editor with it (for Atari ST). Yes it came, it was an Dutch PD editor, and it is not working well with my Atari ST. Every time I press the mouse it halts the whole system. So if someone knows a solution, I would be very happy. Is this model compatible with other Kawai models? Email might be better, I will post a summary if I get any answers. Kimmo Lahtinen lahtinen@gideon.fmi.fi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 91 14:26:19 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: IFS article in CMJ Has anyone read Michael Gogins article on Iterated Functions Systems Music in the recent issue of the Computer Music Journal? I don't quite understand how he's mapping the score array onto MIDI note events. If anyone else has read this, and understands it, could you drop me a note? I'd appreciate it if someone could shed some light on this for me. Thanks, --Adam schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 10:19:07 BST From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: nick's fave rave >so... where the hell do i find it? Interestingly, my local store isn't carrying Waldorf any more (and it took me months to persuade them to get one in the first place). I think the initial marketing push is over, so the machines are being distributed through main dealers (i.e. London) and that's about it. >and do you really program that thing through the panel (i saw one once, about >a year ago, and it was pretty minimalist-looking... i know, i know, you've >stalked about the ease of its architecture), I spent a few months programming it through that panel. The editing interface wasn't the hassle; I just got fed up with sitting on the floor. >or is there software? Wrote my own. I now have a Waldorf editor/librarian. If/when I buy a copy of MAX I'll have a go at wavetable editing. There's apparently new firmware available for it, to accompany the WaveSlave extension module; I have the firmware on order although I've heard nothing so far... Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 23:49:23 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: nick's fave rave > Wrote my own. I now have a Waldorf editor/librarian. If/when I buy a copy > of MAX I'll have a go at wavetable editing. Unless I get it done first. :-) There's an object in Max that lets you graphically edit a table of numbers. By using it and the librarian object, I expect one could throw together a wave editor in an afternoon. > There's apparently new firmware available for it, to accompany the > WaveSlave extension module; I have the firmware on order although I've > heard nothing so far... Any idea what the new firmware does, other than support the WaveSlave? Bug fixes? I haven't noticed you mentioning finding many bugs in the Waldorf. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 13:10:13 EST From: Jamer Subject: Pocket Pedal Well, I was on vacation last week up in Louisville, and decided to go to Far Out Music, which turned out to be a good idea, because they had a set up similar to what I've been looking for. For those of you who are lost, I've been wanting to use a foot controller with my quadraverb for quite some time, y'know, to modulate all the parameters. The guy at Far Out was using an Ensoniq CV pedal (CPV-1) hooked into a pocket pedal, and then into the quadraverb, where it modulated the motor speed of the leslie simulation. It was very neat. So I bought it. And boy is it what I was looking for! Opens up whole new areas of guitar signal processing, and to think that I can play with up to 8 different parameters per program! It's love, I tell ya. But, new questions always arise when you really get "out there". Such as, does anyone know if it's possible to overload a parameter's setting, like beyond what the normal boundaries are? The reason I ask is that I was playing with modulating the reverb chorus, and when I modulated it tooo much, it didn't respond to any further changes, and almost had a distorted tone to it. Kinda weird and unexpected. Later, Jamer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 08:22:00 EDT From: "William R(ay) Brohinsky" Subject: Re: Pocket Pedal jamer, You can't overload a parameter in MIDI. 127 is 127. If the a/d gets overloaded, though, it might oscillate (causing a stream of changing control values which could cause distortion) or it might roll over (to 0 again, and then come up from there) or it might (depending on the hardware and software ) start to fold back. But the largest number that the qv will take for a parameter is the largest number it will take, and you can't make it take no more. You might want to get together with something that shows (on screen) the MIDI codes being sent from the Pocket Pedal, and find out what it's sending. This sort of thing is a good idea anyway, since it's obvious that you aren't getting an even distribution from one end to the other of pedal throw. If there are adjustments in the pedal or in the Pocket Pedal, you'll want to tweek them 'til you get 0 at the heel and 127 at the toe. There are apparently a few synths with controllers that don't give you 0 to 127 over their throws---I think most people are more annoyed when they get 0 to 117... raybro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 10:23:00 CDT From: TMARTIN@KNOX.BITNET Subject: Data dumps across the network Greetings. I have a Jupiter 6 (version 2, I believe - well, it has MIDI anyhow). It, like many synthesizers of its day allow you to dump its patches in banks, to any audio recorder to be later retrieved. I had an idea to dump the signal to a Macintosh using MacRecorder, or a Mac II LC, stuff the digitized sound, binHex it, and then send it to somebody out there who could make use of it. Since I have misplaced my MacRecorder, I haven't been able to try it yet. Has anybody else tried this? Would anybody be interested in trying this? Does anybody have a Jupiter 6 out there that would be interested in trying this scheme out? Please respond to the list, as other people might be interested in thoughts on this as well. -- Tim Martin Knox College, Galesburg, ILLINOIS, USA TMARTIN@KNOX.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 09:09:07 -0400 From: Brian Adamson Subject: FM Synthesis I am interested in experimenting with FM synthesis by programming algorithms on my Sun computer. There has been a little discussion in the past. To get myself started, I would like to find some references on FM synthesis, including Bell lab papers, etc. Does anyone on the list know of such references, or know what else I can pursue to get started? I've synthesized sounds in the past (really boring things like HF radio modem waveforms) on the Sun, downloaded them to my Mac in AIFF and played them using Digidesigns SoundTools & Sound Accelerator board. So I'm really just interested in implementing and playing with different algorithms. Brian Adamson adamson@css.itd.nrl.navy.mil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 11:39:00 N From: "OUT, OUT - YOU'LL NOT FEEL THE FALL-O..." Subject: A MIDI dump puzzle (by a new subscriber) Hello, I am new to this list and I would like to submit a problem for discus- sion, although I don't know whether it has been examined already in the past. In order not to make it too long, I'll state only the main points of the problem - I'll get into more details if someone is interested. All began when I tried to make a program on my ATARI ST to get a data dump from my KORG DSS-1. The aim was to get samples dumped via MIDI, store them to files and then convert them to different and more portable formats. Letting go the _awful_ format used by DSS-1 to store data (chunks of 19 bits, circularly permuted!), the main problem is that when the dump starts everything gets stuck after some 1000 bytes read. I can surely state that: 1) the syntax of MIDI messages sent to DSS-1 is correct; 2) there's no problem with the program; 3) this is due to the DSS-1 suddenly refusing to transmit from a certain step onward; 4) there's no problem with the language (I have switched between Mark Williams C, GFA Basic and 68000 assembler - same result); 5) it's a random event: sometimes 1000 data are transmitted, sometimes 10000 (not more); I strongly suspect that the point of it is active sensing. On my (old) DSS-1 there is _no_ active sensing - and this seems to give problems. My idea is that data get stuck into some buffer, and this stops transmission. I get no message at all from the keyboard in this case. I have also tried syntaxes like if (no_message_on_MIDI_port) { } but no way out! Is there anybody out there who has already had problems with this kind of thing? If my explanation are too unclear, please let me know - I'll state it more clearly. P.S.: nothing-ado with EMUSIC but... anyone wanting to start personal mailing about the genius of Peter Hammill? Hear from you (all) soon! >>> Marco Olivotto - olivotto@itncisca.bitnet <<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 07:50:00 EDT From: Mario Vergona Subject: Re: A MIDI dump puzzle (by a new subscriber) hi although I do not own any sampler, the fact that you say that it is a 'random' problem after 1000 or 10,000 bytes/bits of data, perhaps the problem is not with the DSS-1 but with the buffers that receive/store the midi data in your atari. It might be worthwhile, since you say you have the pgm in a number of language formats, to compile it for exec on an IBM with a voyetra midi card interface and try running the job there to see if the problem goes away. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 12:57:00 CDT From: greg@IHLPM.ATT.COM Subject: Re: A MIDI dump puzzle (by a new subscriber) Marco, I don't have a DSS-1 myself, but I do have a Korg DDD-5 drum machine whose documentation describes data exchange with a DSS-1 (at least I think that is what it was). I wrote a program to accept dumps from the DDD-5 and send them back, and I also encountered some timing problems when trying to send data back to the DDD-5. I was able to get around them by pausing every so often (it could have been every 1K bytes, but I'm not sure right now) to let the DDD-5 process the data I had just sent it. I assumed it had an input buffer that would overflow if I didn't pause. Perhaps the DDD-5 was sending some kind of acknowledgement back to let the sender know that it was ready for more data, but I wasn't checking, I just waited for some amount of time and then sent another block. If the DDD-5 was sending some kind of acknowledgement then perhaps the DSS-1 waits to see it before sending more data. However, that doesn't explain why it will sometimes go for 10K bytes. When I get home I can check the DDD-5's manual to refresh my memory as to how they described the protocol (and to be sure it was a DSS-1 they were referencing). If you can provide a little more detail about the occurance of your problem (like does it ever work successfully, how frequently does it dump 10K instead of 1K, what is the total size of the dump - ie is 10K the dump size, or is it hung up after the 10K with more data to send) that might be helpful. Just as an aside to this, I feel that the MIDI implememtation on the DDD-5 is rather crude, perhaps similar problems exist for the DSS-1. For example, I thought that if I saved a dump of the DDD-5 memory I could extract "parts" and "songs" from the dump and collect them into a single dump that contained finished songs (weeding out all the half baked ideas and partial songs that I seem to create). However, the dump seems to be a raw memory dump, no definition of the format is available, and I couldn't decipher anything from it. I could see some of the "part" or "song" names in the dump, some of them multiple times, leading me to believe that the unit performs memory allocation and freeing as parts or songs are modified, and the dump is just a raw dump of the memory contents, with no predictable format. So much for that idea. At least I could save and restore the current "load" of parts and songs faster (and easier) than to a cassette recorder. Another very annoying problem is that I can play a song from the DDD-5's memory, and collect the resulting MIDI data that it sends during the playing of the song, but sending the collected data back to the DDD-5 over MIDI to play the song from my sequencer doesn't produce the same sounding song. As I remember it, the drum hits seemed to be there, but the sounds of the drums were nothing like the sounds when played from the DDD-5's memory. Thus I haven't yet figured out how to design a drum pattern on my computer and play it correctly (with the expected sound) from the sequencer to the DDD-5. I feel that this is a severe handicap. The DDD-5 documents claim that it will handle Song Position Pointer, Start, Stop, and MIDI Timing bytes, so perhaps I can program the DDD-5 and let the sequencer drive it with the timing messages, but I haven't tried that yet. Of course that precludes any editing of the drum parts using the computer, the only editing possible is with the DDD-5 buttons and 2 line LCD display. OH WELL!!! If any one else has experience with the DDD-5 or suggestions of how to deal with it (I can't afford to take a sledge hammer to it yet though :-) I'd appreciate the information. -- Greg Youngdahl AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL att!ihlpm!greg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 09:54:00 N From: OLIVOTTO@ITNVAX.CINECA.IT Subject: Greg's DDD-5 Greg, the timing problems you have are very similar to mine. I also recognize the problem of part of "songs" names in the dump (repeated? - maybe). It seems that we are dealing with the same problem. Anyway, it's some months that I do not work on this I must say - so I'll get my program out again, and then let you know. But I feel that the MIDI buffer overload is the real key of the pro- blem. I also would like to thank the other ones who have replied. I'll give you more details in a couple of days. IDEA: what about making a KORG-MSP (= Korg Midi Stuck People) self organized list... I foresee a _lot_ of messages! Best wishes to all Marco Olivotto olivotto@itncisca.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 06:17:56 EDT From: Jeff Preston Subject: Reliable SR-16 dumps - suggestions? So anyway... I was sitting around trying to think of a good, cheap, reliable way to dump the data from my Alesis SR-16, when lo-and-behold, I saw this Brother sequencer advertised for about $200. Well, I asked over at the other list about this thing, and one fellow said he'd bought one for a similar purpose, and ended up returning it because of what sounds like buffer overflow problems. Anyone have anything to add about this unit (keeping in mind that I don't really care about how good a sequencer it is - only wanted it for data dumps)? So, my second bright idea was to go really cheap and just take the SR-16 to a friend's house occasionally and use his Soundblaster card and PC to accomplish the deed. Where's the flaw in that plan (other than not having instant access to all of my data)? I was trying to avoid the tape interface altogether, but not because speed is of the essence... I used to have an HR-16, and got severely burned on a *verified* tape dump once, so I'm a little gun-shy about doing it thataway. Any ideas appreciated! Thanks, Jeff Preston (complete and utter novice in over his head) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 13:20:00 N From: OLIVOTTO@ITNVAX.CINECA.IT Subject: RE: RELIABLE SR-16 DUMPS - SUGGESTIONS? Jeff, it should work in fact. If you are reading the messages I have been writing these last two days you'll see that I am stuck with a problem of buffer overloading while dumping samples from my DSS-1. But I have an SR-16 also, and I have been dumping for long time to a small Korg SQD-8 sequencer and then to Notator running on Atari Mega ST 4. So try doing it with Soundblaster, I don't think you'll have problems at all. Best wishes, Marco Olivotto (olivotto@itncisca.bitnet) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 15:26:05 EDT From: David Mantripp Subject: Editors for VFX and Q-verb Well I've finally done it - all the old gear has gone in the bin, analogue oscillators and all. I've dragged myself into the 1980s by buying one of the last VFX SDii's at a bargain price. I decided that I've done all I want to do with my Chroma/Prophet/EMS and it's time for a change. I chose the VFX partly because I loved it at first hearing 18 months ago, and it's the first synth in about 10 years to impress me that much. I had been holding out for the Wavestation, but that must be the biggest disappointment in 10 years. _So_ weedy, so gimmicky... The other deciding factor was the avalanche of plugs from Nick Rothwell etc, so if you're listening Nick, it's all your fault. Hopefully you'll all hear the results on MagFilings3! Anyway, apart from that bit of rambling, I have two questions: Does anybody have any info, comments or suggestions on Mac Editors for the VFX, also for the Alesis Quadraverb (not mine, it belongs to a colleague). I'd be pleased to hear from you! Oh yeah, I wish Ensoniq hadn't bothered with those "piano mega-waves". My only complaint, really. Still, they can be twisted into some perverse shapes! Dave/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 14:29:49 MDT From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: Editors for VFX and Q-verb > Well I've finally done it - all the old gear has gone in the bin, > analogue oscillators and all. Um, whoa there -- what happened to "all the old gear"? Is it gone for good, or just relegated to the closet? Please drop me a note at schabtac@stout.ucar.edu. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 17:35:03 EDT From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Editors for VFX and Q-verb Well, we have two polarities of experience on the VFX (and VFXsd): Nick liked it but had nothing but trouble and bugs. I like it and have had nowhere near the same amount of trouble. The amount of banging around it gets seems to be a major part of the trouble. Make sure that your dealer installs the keyboard mod detailed in maintenance notes 9b and 11. This hardwires the two halves of the pressure board together and gets rid of the connector that loosens up and causes the infamous KEYBOARD INITIALIZATION ERROR. As to bugs, Nick has a large studio and I have a miniscule one (relatively speaking). I haven't experienced any of the problems with external devices because I have no external devices... --- Joe M. ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************