EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 35, Issue 01 This issue's topics: Alternate tunings (4 messages) Artifact EM and "Grunt" (4 messages) EM for the sequencer shy listener..... (3 messages) Fractal music (5 messages) Live Electronic Music Recordings of MEV (Musica Elettronica Viva) (2 messages) Reply about "Peter and the Wolf" Richard Burmer's "Across the View" TONTO / Jordan Delasierra Tonto's Expanding Head Band Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 13:40:56 EST From: The Radio Gnome Subject: Alternate tunings Hi, Some recommendations for music using alternate tunings... Terry Riley - Harp of the New Albion (solo piano) Rhys Chatham - Die Donnergotter Glenn Branca - Symphony #3 'Gloria' Lou Harrison - La Koro Sutro, Concerto for Violin and Gamelan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 18:13:21 MST From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: Alternate tunings > Some recommendations for music using alternate tunings... > [ . . . ] "Beauty in the Beast" by Wendy Carlos (Anybody know if she's released anything since "Secrets of Synthesis"?) --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1991 05:33:22 GMT From: "Joseph L. Procopio" Subject: Re: Alternate tunings In article <9112050113.AA04137@stout.atd.ucar.EDU> schabtac@STOUT.ATD.UCAR.EDU (Adam Schabtach) writes: > "Beauty in the Beast" by Wendy Carlos > > (Anybody know if she's released anything since "Secrets of Synthesis"?) Is this the same Wendy Carlos that was a man and had a sex change? I believe he/she wrote some of the music for A Clockwork Orange? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1991 07:40:56 MST From: Adam Schabtach Subject: Re: Alternate tunings > > "Beauty in the Beast" by Wendy Carlos > Is this the same Wendy Carlos that was a man and had a sex change? Yes. > I believe he/she wrote some of the music for A Clockwork Orange? Yes. --Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 10:43:02 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Artifact >It's just that after that >last posting on the Wergo and Neuma stuff, I got a letter from a sort >of irate E-music listener who seems to have gone out and bought some >of the stuff I mentioned/recommended ["wasted good money on" was the >exact term, I think] As far as I'm concerned, written/posted reviews come with an implicit disclaimer since, while it's possible to an extent to describe the content style-wise of an electronic album, quantifying its musical merit is almost impossible (and subjective to boot). If EMusic is any kind of serious artistic medium at all, this is how it should be. >and was rather irate with me for getting him to >buy some records that sucked as bad as Vangelis' Beaubourg and Invisible >Connections [my two favorites of his, incidentally....]. I think BEAUBOURG is superb but INVISIBLE LIMITS does nothing for me - yet. I will be listening to both to see what B. has and I.L. doesn't... >seeking to avoid the possibility that some souls out >there seem to think of Tangerine Dream as "out there" music. The sad thing is, of course, that not so long ago (15-20 years) they *were*. >But I do confess here - I've rather tuned out of the Tangerine Dream >school of late - the sequenced electronic world in general. Me too. Too busy trying to compose the stuff, perhaps, and also I'm trying not to fall into the trap of listening to too much EMusic at the same time, since that leads to unconscious mimickry. I'm sure there is good EMusic around but I haven't come across anything too mindblowing recently. Oh, Johannes Schmoelling's stuff is superb - I strongly recommend WHITE OUT (disclaimers apply). Gabriel's BIRDY and PASSION OST's are good, as has been mentioned. But I have to admit here that the last album I bought was the Julee Cruise platter, FLOATING INTO THE NIGHT - pure pop but a very nice, moody, atmosphere to it - sort-of Madonna Sings Enya. Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1991 15:55:32 PST From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Re: EM and "Grunt" Hi! I'm new to the list, and would like to briefly introduce myself. I've listened to E-Music since about 1978 when I got turned onto everything from Alpha Centauri to Varese by WXPN in Philadelphia. I was a dj at Penn State's radio station in the early 80's and founded a latenight electronic radio show (though other e-music was played on the station, this was a show dedicated totally to latenight emusic). Plus I got into doing tape experiments and worked in the Electronic Music lab there. Since 1984 I've worked mostly on my own music solo, using synths, samplers, guitars, bass, and drum machine, mostly on my 4 track in my home studio, but I've also got friends in music labs at Mills College and City College of San Francisco. I've done performances of my music, slides, and video at the Lab in San Francisco at some shows with friends over the last 5 years, but mostly I just do studio work. One reason for this is that I think watching e-music done live can be *really* boring, especially when many of the tracks are prepared in advance on sequencer or tape. I've tried to avoid doing shows where the audience ends up watching some guy playing one melody on a keyboard whilst accompanied by invisible partners, cause I don't think that makes for a very interesting performance. So I've done stuff like create slide shows synced to mastered recordings of my music as a way of offering the music with an "entertainment" option for those who want to do more than listen. RE: >Is it possible to make EMusic with Grunt without using heavy throbbing >sequencer riffs and percussion? I guess a lot of it might depend on what your definition of "Grunt" is. Ever tried improvising? It might be harder to make it "Grunt", but I think it's possible. I think Con - by Conrad Schnitzler is a good example of some good emusic without conventional sequencers. Subotnik has a fairly recent cd of some music dedicated to Max Ernst images. It uses FM synthesis and sounds pretty sequenced but also has a uniqueness and an edge to it. I'm really fond of Jon Hassell, who isn't really doing what I'd call Emusic but it has some elements, and I think Hassell has created a very unique form of music, combining otherworldly processed trumpet with ethnic percussion and synths; he's basically created a new type of music that defies classification as "new age" or "jazz", the closest term I've heard is "world music", but in Hassell's case I'd say it's more like "other-world music". >Is it possible to employ sequencers and percussion in EMusic without >falling into the old traps and sounding totally derivative? It's hard to not sound a little derivative if we all use the same notes, scales, and tools to create our music. If you use a sequencer, or a guitar into a tape loop system, or just about any music tool, it's hard not to do something that hints at something somebody else has already done, even though it might not be derivative. Face it, almost everything has already been done before; there just isn't a whole lot of new ground to cover, unless you start chucking out the preconceptions of how we are supposed to make "music". Let's start with tuning. Go Microtonal! There are thousands of notes out there to be explored. The only problem is most of us with western trained ears percieve microtonal music to be noise, or out of tune, or weird. Personally I think that can be used to one's advantage. I've got a book on African marimbas from the 50's that documents dozens of tunings carefully noted in charts. I hope to someday create some voices on my DX11 using these tunings from "authentic" instruments. Of course you can create your own "instruments" too, if you have a keyboard that can do microtones. I think there's even a commercial software package that offers microtunings taken from various cultures. I like using a sequencer I can loop and add and delete notes to on the fly, so I can use it like a tape loop to build layers and manipulate them. Sometimes I use a really long loop to develop the ideas, then only use a snippets so that the end product isn't even a loop, just a fragment of what I built up. I have a couple of sequencers, but the only sequencer I have that does this is my drum machine, but I sometimes use it as a controller when I want to compose in this mode. I hate drum machines, but feel enslaved to using one since it's one of the tools at hand. I try to go out of my way to make it not sound like a drum machine. I pitch shifted it in one piece that had a middle eastern feel, so it wouldn't sound like a trap drum set. Another time I wanted to get a hand drumming type of sound and feel, and I wanted to not make it sound sequenced; I wanted patterns to repeat but with variations to make it sound like people playing it. I used the drum machine as a controller for a mutated log drum patch, and then laid down two *different* patterns, which were intentionally out of synch (and maybe in different tempos too), and left the two patterns running. I forgot to mention that I used odd times, not 4/4, I think I used one pattern of 7, and one of 5. Anyway, the two patterns mixed together out-of-synch created a phasing pattern, essentially creating one *long* pattern of the other two patterns going through their cycles in relation to each other. The effect was a semi-randomized pattern that was long enough you couldn't really detect the long loop since I never used enough of it for it to repeat, and you could hear hints of the short loops but they were ever changing, and for me it got the hand drumming sound I was looking for to use as a rhythm bed for a piece. Another thought: Try making some intentional "mistakes", maybe by going in and tweaking a few things to be slightly offbeat, to give a more human sound. RE: Malcolm Cecil: he also went on to work with Steve Hillage in the 70's and with Gil Scot-Heron in the early 80's. Seems to me he did something else pretty prominent I can't recall right now. Maybe some movie soundtracks? Malcolm Humes - malcolm@wrs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1991 12:13:46 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: EM and "Grunt" >Ever tried improvising? I do that "in the studio" but haven't really done it live, since I'm currently using a conventional sequencer which makes improvisation almost impossible. One of my plans is to build some kind of live improvisation platform using MAX (probably running in parallel to Performer) which has a more organic and flexible structure to it than current sequencers. >I like using a sequencer I can loop and add and delete notes to on the fly, >so I can use it like a tape loop to build layers and manipulate them. I tend to use the Wavestation's sequencer in this way; it also lets me substitute different sounds at different parts of the sequence, and microtune individual notes, and so on. >Another thought: Try making some intentional "mistakes", maybe by going in >and tweaking a few things to be slightly offbeat, to give a more human >sound. I think my question (can one use sequencers without being derivative) was wider than you seem to have read it. I wasn't even thinking of a sequencer as being something to hold a rhythm, but just something capable of sequencing events in some way. The WS's wave sequencer is a very nice break away from a "conventional" sequencer, and I hope to knock up some things with MAX that are similarly lateral... Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 08:27:01 EST From: "Patrick Robinson" Subject: Re: EM and "Grunt" On Thu, 5 Dec 1991 12:13:46 +0000 Nick Rothwell said: >>I like using a sequencer I can loop and add and delete notes to on the fly, >>so I can use it like a tape loop to build layers and manipulate them. > >I tend to use the Wavestation's sequencer in this way; it also lets me >substitute different sounds at different parts of the sequence, and >microtune individual notes, and so on. Nick ... could you describe the Wavestation's sequencer a little more? You're talking about the 'wave sequencing' sequencer, right? I'm interested in how it could be used 'on-the-fly'. Thanks, -Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1991 16:52:47 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: EM and "Grunt" >Nick ... could you describe the Wavestation's sequencer a little more? "A little?" OK. The WS has a PCM sample memory. (Sad but true.) The sample memory includes percussion samples and single-cycle waves from the Prophet VS. Samples are either one-shot (e.g. the percussion ones) or looped, and some looped samples have a distinct attack portion. So far so good. As a vector synth, each patch can play four samples which can be vector mixed, sent through a largely ineffectual filter section(*), routed to the FX processor in various ways, and so on. Alternatively, a voice in a patch can play not a sample but a wave sequence. This is a linear sequence of samples in the PCM memory. Each has a pitch (+/- two octaves from root, plus fine tuning), duration, volume level, and crossfade for gradual timbral changes. A wave sequence can be one-shot or looped from any point to any other, a fixed or infinite number of times. Each segment might fire once, or might loop for the duration of the step. (The PCM sample card actually has looped percussion samples, which is another complication...) Step durations are nominally in 24ths of a quarter note at 100bpm. The Wavestation can be locked to MIDI clock so that the sequences run in time with a master sequencer (this is what I do). There are various ways that the wave sequence can be modulated; the start point can be modulated (e.g. by velocity) and the timing can be modulated (e.g. by key tracking) and there are others. Various combinations are (sadly) unavailable for reasons I won't go into now. Remember that a wave sequence is essentially the waveform generator for the patch, so its output goes through the entire voice path, gets vector mixed, and so on. The effects vary, from PPG-style wavetables (to an extent) to resonant filter effects to striking detuned layerings to sample/hold LFO effects to percussion patterns to sequencer riffs to any combination of the above, however you see fit. The ability to build sequence patterns and then swap, match, mix and tune individual sound segments while it's running is a *very* nice way to get catchy rhythm patterns. >I'm interested in how it could be used 'on-the-fly'. You're triggering wave sequences from keys. Needless to say, the things can track the keyboard like an arpeggiator. Coupled with the WS's performance layering/patch delay facilities and dual FX processors, you can do a hell of a lot. Nick. (*) I have a theory about the conception and design of the WS which lead to the crappy filters. I'll post when I have a spare moment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 13:38:18 EST From: The Radio Gnome Subject: EM for the sequencer shy listener..... Hi, For those of you who are tired of the 'Berlin School' brand of sequencer heavy EM I have the following recommendations: Constance Demby - Sacred Space Music, Set Free Richard Burmer - anything Robert Rich - Rainforest Eberhard Schoener - Meditation, Bali Agung Ralph Lundsten - Cosmic Love (Nordic Natursymfoni opus ??) Michael Stearns - Planetary Unfolding, Chronos Tontos Expanding Headband - anything Sanford Ponder - Etosha, Tigers are Brave Transmillenia Consort (Pauline Annastrom) - Spectre, Plot Zero David Parsons - Himalaya, Yattra, Tibetan Plateau I'm sure there are others I've missed, but this is a start. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 14:03:24 EST From: Jon Crystal Subject: Re: EM for the sequencer shy listener..... If you like some of the Radio Gnome's recent suggestions, then add Stephen van Handel: Pearl's of the Soul Paul Avgerinos: Balancing Spheres Kit Watkins: almost anything Tim Clarke: Tales of the Sun People These are all in the same vein, with interesting use of electronics and/or patches. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1991 09:57:00 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: EM for the sequencer shy listener..... > For those of you who are tired of the 'Berlin School' brand of >sequencer heavy EM I have the following recommendations: Hmm. "Sacred Space Music." "Rainforest." "Cosmic Love." "Himalaya." >From these titles, it sounds like a baby-and-bathwater scenario. In throwing out the bathwater of TD-style sequencing you're throwing out the baby of Electronic Music with any kind of Grunt and Balls in favour of soporific New Age. Is it possible to make EMusic with Grunt without using heavy throbbing sequencer riffs and percussion? Is it possible to employ sequencers and percussion in EMusic without falling into the old traps and sounding totally derivative? Both questions interest me a great deal. Nick. P.S. Yes. I'm being provocative. Again. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1991 22:08:33 EST From: Karl Signell Subject: Fractal music Any tips on where to find a recording of music based on fractal mathematics greatly appreciated. Karl Signell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 09:08:57 CST From: Gregory Taylor Subject: Re: Fractal music There's a piece of music which uses that old fractal contour by Charles Dodge on the Neuma label. The disc is called "Electro Acoustic Music I", and the piece is called "Profile." I believe that there's also an article in the back issues of the Computer Music Journal written by Dodge in which he describes the construction of the piece. Johannes Goebel began with a fractal noise source and then did some wonderful old style "program/listen/decide/program/listen/decide" resonance filtering on said noise on his "Uber....[on crossing the river]" found on the Computer Music Currents Volume 3 on Wergo. One of the sections of Michael McNabb's "Invisible Cities" disc [also on Wergo] uses a fractal algorithm to generate a backing melody to the lead instrument. Don't remember which one, but it's in the notes. There are a bunch of ah.... "new age" sorts of discs that claim to use fractals to generate phrases, but their names escape me. I think that perhaps Sanford Ponder did one.... Best leave *that* question to others. With regards, Gregory Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 09:59:58 -0500 From: Bryan Basham Subject: Re: Fractal Music > Any tips on where to find a recording of music based on fractal > mathematics greatly appreciated. I acquired a copy of "Computing in Musicology 1991" recently and there was a small section devoted to fractal approaches to analysis and composition (pgs. 92-101). Janet Thomas is doing work in Algorithmic Composition (based on fractal patterns); she can be reached at: JPT4@VAXA.YORK.AC.UK There were also a few commercial software products mentioned -- either contact me directly, or see page 101 of CM 1991. Basham ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 13:57:29 EST From: JSMOR@CONNCOLL.BITNET Subject: fractal music In response to the inquiry about fractal music- There is a composer named Elliot Sharp, who did several pieces based on fractal mathematics and the Fibonacci series. There is a compilation of his work availale on SST records called "Monster Curve." Sharp put together an ensemble called Carbon, and they did an album titled "Fractal," and in the liner notes of Monster Curve, Sharp says: "The third Carbon album, Fractal, was inspired by Benoit Mandelbrot's The Fractal Geometry of Nature. I felt a resonance with his mapping of mathematical functions to forms and phenomena from nature including turbulence, chaos, and seeming randomness. The musical structures in Carbon concern the interzone between order and chaos as manifested in the guided improvisations of the players within the algorithms of each piece. Each piece was based on a different aspect from fractal geometry and constructed in layers in the studio with new layers revealing more of the tangential." I hope this is helpful, Jon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 00:12:23 -0500 From: Robert Drake Subject: Re: fractal music dug out these journal references from a discussion on the alt.comp.music board last month. most info originally Allyn Weaks (), first posted july 1989, so there may well be more recent. anyway: Dodge, C. "Profile: a Musical Fractal". Computer Music Journal, vol. 12 #3 (fall 1988) pp 10-14. Description of the author's composition, useing a time-filling fractal form for the structure of the piece and 1/f noise to choose the musical detail of pitch, rhythm, and amplitude. Schroeder "Pitch and rhythm paradoxes: Auditory paradoxs based fractal waveform". Jrnl Acoustics Society of America, vol 79 pp186-189 [see also, additional comments by Risset, J.C. in vol. 80 pp961-962]. Describes acoustic, fractal -based, waveforms that sound lower when reproduced at higher speeds, as well as rhythmical sequences that can sound slower when reproduced at higher speeds. Dodge, C. "Musical fractals". Byte, vol.11 #6 (june 1986) pp185-96. Discusses basic techniques for computer-aided musical composition, and includes programming for generating musical fractals on home computers (written in MSX BASIC using MUSIC MACRO commands for the Yamaha CX5-M music computer). Berkowitz, S. "New aesthetics for musical variation". Proceedings of the 5th Symposium on small computers in the arts (IEEE Computing Society Press) 1985. Conference paper discussing the use of computers to generate variations on a musical theme. Score manipulations to be utilized by a digital music system are: movement; linear scaling; quantification and scale injection; expotential scaling; density and mean pitch; fractal patterning and waveforms and meolodies. ----------------------------------------------------------------- i also just received a mailing from Frog Peak Music (Box A36, Hanover NH 03755--*very* nice catalog of unusual recordings, scores & books) describing their Heirarchical Music Specification Language for Mac or Amiga computers. among other things, "it provides: ... abstract compositional tools like Markov chains and 1/F noise...hierarchical scheduler for playing 'abstract data'..." yrs, luigi *DESTROY SERIOUS CULTURE! ART STRIKE,1990-93!* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1991 08:23:18 -0800 From: Tom Erbe Subject: Live Electronic Music This notice is a little late, but I thought you might all be interested anyway. ------- A concert featuring unusual controllers and interactive electronics will be held at Olive's (Pier 50 near China Basin in San Francisco) on Tuesday, December 10th, at 9:00pm. Featured will be: Andrew Voight and Ed Herman - sax and Serge modular synthesizer Gino Robair and guests - Theremin and percussion Robert Marsanyi, Tom Miley, Mark Trayle - Mattel Power Gloves controlling Amiga local sound and home-built voice synthesizers This should be a good show. Olive's is a great place that hosts a lot of interesting music. Tom Erbe * Technical Director * Center for Contemporary Music * Mills College tom@mills.edu * Mills College, Oakland, CA 94613 * (510) 430-2191 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1991 17:09:18 GMT From: John McMillan Subject: Recordings of MEV (Musica Elettronica Viva) Does anyone out there have any recordings of Musica Elettronica Viva? They were a Rome based live electronics group who were active in the early seventies and possibly later. They consisted of US exile Alvin Curran, Hungarian Musicologist Ivan Vandor and many others. The exact personnel is confusing since they always had guests sitting in with them. I have the Mainstream LP "Live Electronic Music" with one side AMM (fragmented) and the other side MEV "spacecraft". I know they once recorded for UK Polydor (with Steve Lacy?) and there's at least one record on French BYG (the Sound Pool?). None of these records are currently available and I don't suppose they rank very highly on the relevant company's re-issue schedules. Is there anyone out there who has these records and would care to make me tape copies? Does anyone know of any more MEV recordings? John McMillan /certain ants/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1991 16:00:10 CST From: Gregory Taylor Subject: Re: Recordings of MEV (Musica Elettronica Viva) > Does anyone out there have any recordings of Musica Elettronica Viva? If I'm not mistaken, there have been some recent performances by an outfit using that name. I think that I recall that Richard Teitelbaum is involved. The tape I've got was broadcast as part of a "Live on TDK Tape" series of shows. Since it's not here, I cannot offer much more help than this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1991 11:25:48 EST From: "Joseph D. McMahon" Subject: Reply about "Peter and the Wolf" Forwarded message: > Re Yaacov Slizak's request about "Peter & the Wolf". > > RSO records 2394 162, (1975) > > Narrator: Viv Stanshall > Peter: Manfred Mann > Bird: Gary Brooker > Duck: Chris Spedding, Gary Moore > Cat: Stephane Grappelli > Wolf: Eno > Pond: Keith Tippett > Grandfather: Jack Lancaster > Hunters: Jon Hiseman, Bill Bruford, Cozy Powell, Phil Collins, > Alvin Lee, Robin Lumley, Julie Tippett and the English > Chorale > Includes booklet w/artwork. Released in 5 languages, other narrators were: > French: Pierre Clementi > German: Wilken 'Willem' F. Dincklage > Italian: Maurizio Arcieri > Spanish: Luis Del Olmo > > Production at trident studios by: Jack Lancaster, Robin Lumley & Dennis > McKay > Hi-lites include Percy Jones bass work, extensive lyricon wind synth work > by Jack Lancaster and "Capture of the Wolf" has Eno-synth, Robin Lumley - > synth & piano, Jack Lancaster - Lyricon, Phil Collins - percussion. Not bad! > I think the package works. Distributed in Canada (US?) by polydor. > lorne Hammond, Ottawa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1991 08:30:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: Richard Burmer's "Across the View" Came across a strange one the other day: a Japanese CD of Richard Burmer entitled "Across the View". Turns out it is Richard's third album "On The Third Extreme" plus his two solo cuts from the "Western Spaces" album. Interestingly, "Western Spaces" has been re-issued without Burmer's solo pieces and without his name on the cover. Now it is presented as just a two man collaboration between Steve Roach and Kevin Brahey (might have misspelled that one...). The original idea behind "Western Spaces" was each of the three would have a couple solo cuts and then there would be one they would all work on together. Since the three-way collaboration became the title tune, it was difficult to eliminate Burmer completely from the disc. Might be an interesting story behind "Western Spaces"... Has anyone seen "Across the View" in an American version? John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1991 13:37:06 EST From: The Radio Gnome Subject: TONTO / Jordan Delasierra Hi, I believe that Tontos Expanding Headband only put out two records, both of which are out of print now, but still crop up in used record shops here and there. Their first has two different covers and I think that their second, 'Zero Time' was reissued in Europe with different cuts from the US pressing. I don't know what Robert Margouleff did afterwards, but Malcom Cecil released 'Radiance' in the later 70s and also taught Stevie Wonder how to use synthesizers ("Superstition", etc.) I did get Sierras "Song of the Rose" from Backroads, only to find that its missing two whole sides of the original "Gymnospheres" release. If you like this sort of music, get "Stars" by Tom Ehrlich. It may be out of print, too, but it's great spacey piano. Speaking of out of print rarities, anyone ever see the following? "Cosmic Beam Experience" by Francesco "Dream Sequence" by Helen Thorington -later- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 14:14:00 EST From: MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET Subject: Tonto's Expanding Head Band >From: The Radio Gnome >Tontos Expanding Headband - anything How much is available from Tonto's Expanding Head Band? I have the Atlantic reissue of their Embryo album "Zero Time", but I am not aware of any others. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Dept Michigan State University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1991 13:11:54 EST From: The Radio Gnome Subject: What is grunt? Hi, By grunt do you mean a harder edge than "sopoforic" EM? For example, Klaus Hess - Sternentantz(sp?) or "Ebondazzer" by Peak... How about Cybotrons "Collosus"/"Implosion" lps "Direct" by Vangelis? If you mean a wierd/offbeat approach to EM... Propeller Island - "Hermaneutik Musik"/"Secret Convention" Helen Thorington - "Dream Sequence/Trying to Think" (VERY popular on Starsend) Artek - "Detox" Piero Milesi - "Nuclear Observatory of Mr. Nanoff" Phillip Perkins - just about anything of his Have you ever listened to Ralph Lundsten? His records are very hard to find and the response I get from record shops and classical buffs is a confused "Ralph who?" He's done some interesting stuff with his "Andromeda Allstars" ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************