EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 45, Issue 10 This issue's topics: synth vs. sampler (2 messages) synths... (3 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:33:58 -0400 From: Dana Nibby Subject: synth vs. sampler I was reading through an ensoniq propaganda booklet called 'choosing a synth or sampler' or something like that. It seemed to say that there were only a few differences between synths and samplers. namely: (1) w/a synth, you have quick access to hundreds of sounds. no loading time needed like with a sampler. (2) w/a sampler you need tons of extra memory whereas with a synth you do not. It went on to say that if you bought a hard-drive and 'flashbank' memory (memory that works like ram and rom. can save samples onto it for near instant loading. And that this virtually closed the gap between synths and samplers. This makes me wonder. Ok, I *know* the sound on a synth can be manipulated in more ways than with a sampler (or at least more of them). *My* main concern is this. I know from sampling that as you play a sample higher than it's recorded pitch/rate, it sounds like a sped-up tape or record... the same goes with playing a note lower. The only reason I'm considering buying a synth vs. a sampler (I would definately prefer having sampling capabilities) is that with a synth, you can play notes all over the scale without this speeding up and slowing down of sound. How does the EPS or EPS 16+ work? When you buy a disk with samplers, is there just one sample or are there 4-5 so you don't get as much speed change? Another reason I'd *prefer* a sampler over a synth is because I'm a poor student, and since synths have pre-set waveforms, I could never get truly new sounds. I think it's ridiculous that synths like the VFX-SD , which is the one I would buy, don't accept PCM cards so I can get new sounds. I don't have the money to buy new modules, other synths, etc. to get more sounds. The keyboard I buy has to be versatile. Synths just aren't as far as I can tell. The sounds you have stock, plus doing some mods with parameters.. that's all you have. With a sampler, I can get all kinds of disks of old analog synths. Granted, it's not the same as owning the original synths, but since I'm not too familiar w/the originals, I won't be too picky about that. (i.e. well, the sample just isn't *fat* enough, etc.) Please help! Should I buy an EPS/EPS 16+ or a VFX-SD? Main question is can I get the sampler to sound like a synth, using maybe 4 samples to span the keyboard. Thanks, Dana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:19:28 -0400 From: "(Joseph D. McMahon)" Subject: Re: synth vs. sampler Dana Nibby writes: > > I know from sampling that as you play a sample higher than it's recorded > pitch/rate, it sounds like a sped-up tape or record... the same goes with > playing a note lower. The only reason I'm considering buying a synth vs. > a sampler (I would definately prefer having sampling capabilities) is that > with a synth, you can play notes all over the scale without this speeding > up and slowing down of sound. How does the EPS or EPS 16+ work? When you > buy a disk with samplers, is there just one sample or are there 4-5 so > you don't get as much speed change? ANY sample-playing machine (including the VFX family) will suffer from the munchkinization effect when sample playback is sped up. Analog machines will not, since they are actually synthesizing the sound, rather than playing a single sound a different speeds. There are ways of resynth- esizing samples so that they are pitch-shifted with the proper relative overtone series, but I know of no (affordable) machine that does it in real time. > I don't have the money to buy new modules, other synths, etc. to get more > sounds. The keyboard I buy has to be versatile. Synths just aren't as far > as I can tell. The sounds you have stock, plus doing some mods with > parameters.. that's all you have. The key here is the distancing tools that the machine has. The VFX family has quite a number of modulators and can be very good at synthesis despite its being a sample player instead of a "pure synthesis" box. > With a sampler, I can get all kinds > of disks of old analog synths. Granted, it's not the same as owning the > original synths, but since I'm not too familiar w/the originals, I won't > be too picky about that. (i.e. well, the sample just isn't *fat* enough, > etc.) I will note, and Metlay and Eirikur will confirm, that the VFX fooled Eirikur into thinking that it was the Xpander. It can be *very* fat. > Please help! Should I buy an EPS/EPS 16+ or a VFX-SD? Main question is > can I get the sampler to sound like a synth, using maybe 4 samples to span > the keyboard. The answer depends solely on the amount of memory you have and the amount of time and patience you have to put in to sampling your sources. Most sample disks you get are not extensively multisampled; you'll have to do that yourself. It's the paradigmatic synthesis tradeoff: Convenience and control of your sound are almost always inversely proportional. The VFX family is a notable exception, in that there is an unusually large amount of control provided in a convenient package. Same argument goes for the K2000 (but it has no 24-track scratchpad sequencer). Perhaps (I've forgotten, are you a Mac user, Dana)? You might want to consider a sampler plus Turbosynth (sort of a software modular synth). This conbination allows you to "synthesize" sample files and then down- load them to your synth. What is your target music, so to speak? This might help better define what tools you need. --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:20:22 -0400 From: Dana Nibby Subject: synths... Ok, here's my last synth recommendation request for awhile. (Won't we all be a lot happier when I find the right synth for me and my price range?) Here's what I need: * multi-timbral * 8 track sequencer * don't need velocity sensitive keyboard (hell, I'd disable it if I had a keyboard w/that feature) or any other fancy keyboard sensitivity. Although a joystick would be a big plus. * don't need piano sounds or orchestral sounds * 8-bit sound is ok I suppose, but I'm worried about the low decibel output. 16-bit would help. * would help if it accepted waveform cards. what is the least expensive synth(s) that accept waveform cards? * Price should be in $400-600 range used. I'll primarily be using the synth for techno/industrial dance music. It would help if the synth produced something similar to analog sounds. I'm not a purist, and even if they remotely resemble analog, that should be fine. As I've said before, I have a 16-bit drum machine to take care of percussion, and will use samples from my Amiga. Dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:00:46 EDT From: Eirmkur Hallgrmmsson 15-Oct-1992 1203 Subject: RE: synths... What I think you are describing, Dana, is a used Ensoniq ESQ-1. Many people like the built-in sequencer a lot. Eirikur ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1992 12:40:35 CST From: Jason Keeler Subject: Re: synths... Hi; That's a fair amount to ask for in the $400-600 range but off the top of my head, I would suggest a K4 which you MIGHT be able to snag for $500 and an Alesis MMT-8 which you also MIGHT be able to snag for $100. Those two items should fit the bill. If I had more time, I'd help devise more combinations (lord knows I've done this myself many times over) but I've got a HUGE Pascal assign due in two days. Good luck! ...Jason Keeler ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************