EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 48, Issue 07 This issue's topics: Hardware -- AES-EBU specs -- (3 messages) Expander and 4-tracks ? Good news for csound-wanabees on the Mac (2 messages) hard disk recording IBM Sound Cards (FYI) MIDI on SGIs (3 messages) ROLAND MV-30 Sampling, MIDI, SB, etc. SB pro/Computers/MIDI possibilities Sound Blaster Handling. Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:14:19 MET From: Andrea TONI Subject: -- AES-EBU specs -- Hi, Is it possible to get somewhere (ftp sites or else !!) papers describing in technical details the digital interface AES-EBU ?? And more .. what's the format of the digital output on commercial CD players ? Any suggestion or help is highly appreciated ! Ciao, ------------------------------------------------ENV---ENV---ENV---------------- Andrea TONI (andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl) | | | Planetary and Space VCO-->VCF-->VCA--> DUCATI 900SS Science Division (SI) | | | ------------------------------------------------LFO---LFO---LFO---------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:39:36 EST From: Jonathan Subject: Re: -- AES-EBU specs -- >From: Andrea TONI > >Hi, >Is it possible to get somewhere (ftp sites or else !!) papers >describing in technical details the digital interface AES-EBU ?? >And more .. what's the format of the digital output on commercial CD players ? >Any suggestion or help is highly appreciated ! Here's the canonical reference: Audio Engineering Society, ``AES Recommended Practice for Digital Audio Engineering --- Serial Transmission Format for Linearly Represented Digital Audio Data,'' AES3-1985 (ANSI S4.40-1985), J. Aud. Eng. Soc., Vol. 33, No. 12, December 1985 BUT... Trust me. You don't want to play with the AES-EBU signal itself. What you want is an encoder-decoder chip sets that converts it to or from a useful serial format with the necessary clocks. Check out the Yamaha YM3436 and YM3437 chips (Call Yamaha 800-543-7454 for spec sheets). Cheers, Jonathan Foote : : Division of Engineering : internet: : BITNET: Brown University, Box D : jtf@lems.brown.edu : JFOOTE@BROWNVM Providence, RI 02912 : : "Life is a SNAK-PAK and there is but one box of SUGAR POPS" -Zippy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:02:26 MET From: Andrea TONI Subject: Re: -- AES-EBU specs -- > Audio Engineering Society, ``AES Recommended Practice for Digital > Audio Engineering --- Serial Transmission Format for Linearly > Represented Digital Audio Data,'' AES3-1985 (ANSI S4.40-1985), > J. Aud. Eng. Soc., Vol. 33, No. 12, December 1985 Thnx for the tip ! > BUT... Trust me. You don't want to play with the AES-EBU signal itself. > What you want is an encoder-decoder chip sets that converts it to or from > a useful serial format with the necessary clocks. Check out the > Yamaha YM3436 and YM3437 chips (Call Yamaha 800-543-7454 for spec sheets). No I don't want to play with the signal .. I just want to know how it works anyway ! The idea is to get an AKAY S950 and to sample in digital from a cheap CD-player ! I will probably need as you said a clock regenerator that adjust and synchronize the 2 diffrent data rate .. But still what is the format of a digital-out on a CD player ? I bet it isn't AES-EBU ! Ciao, ------------------------------------------------ENV---ENV---ENV---------------- Andrea TONI (andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl) | | | Planetary and Space VCO-->VCF-->VCA--> DUCATI 900SS Science Division (SI) | | | ------------------------------------------------LFO---LFO---LFO---------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:49:53 -0500 From: David HAUBENSACK Subject: Expander and 4-tracks ? Hey all, I'm quite recent in e emusic and I have just a Roland U20 synth plugged on a PC with a little sequencer. But I rapidly found out that the 7-multitimbrality of my synth is not enough for my amazing creativity. As a saxophonist and piano player, I was first interested in the U20 because of the good quality of its sampled sounds. Now that I know a little more on emusic, I want to buy an expander and a 4-tracks tape to create richer pieces and to record my saxophon and a guitar on them. I need your advices, and experience, because I'm not used to all these trade marks and existing models, and I didn't find any honest vendor in my forgotten and grassy land... What I approximatively need: Expander: - multitimbral (10 at least) - polyphonic (28 at least) - synthesis: I don't know too much about all this topic (AWM, PCM, FM, etc...) and would appreciate an explanation. Someone told me that the U20 has good PCM sounds but as they are in ROM you cannot change them and not even copy them to others instruments or on a RAM card (the D50 apparently did that, true?). Is it a question of synthesis or what else ? I would like to have this possibility to load sounds in my machine from a ftp site or from a similar machine. - possibility to create real synthetic sounds (on my U20, I got excellent real instruments but not a lot of synthetic sounds in ROM, except a few pulsewave or sawwave). - 500 to 800$ new or used. - What do you know about the Roland D110 ? 4-tracks: - something that can be used as a 8 channels mixing systems at least (with jack or XLR inputs) - with 2 auxiliary control per channel for two effect racks. - real 4 tracks (not 2 out of 4). - An good equalization (2-3 knobs) on at least 4 channels. - what else do I need ? A counting system. - I often heard about MIDI synchronisation and cliks in your lines. What does it mean ? - 1000$ max for a new machine. - What do you know about the Tascam 644 and the Fostex 280 ? Maybe is there any ftp sites where I can get synthetic info of this kind. If someone knows where... Thank you for your help. _______________________________________________________ | David HAUBENSACK, , France | | ___ /\ | | /\ /\ /\ /\__\ /_/_ | | /_/_/ / /_/_ /_/_ /\__/\ | | / \_/ / /\__/\ \__/\ /_/_/_/ | | / / / / /_/_/ /____/ / /\____/\ | | \/ \/ \___\/ \___\/ \/ \/ | |_______________________________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:09:19 EST From: "Joseph D. McMahon" Subject: Good news for csound-wanabees on the Mac >From TidBITS#160/25-Jan-93: > > * I also verified that the AppleCD 300 can send audio tracks (from > your favorite Elton John CD, for example) down the SCSI bus as a > 16-bit audio data stream. However, Apple engineers had no idea of > applications for the firmware capabilities. (Essentially there are > two problems: first, stereo audio is 10 MB per stereo minute which > makes for large disk files; and second, the data would have to be > sucked into an application or utility and made into a file, like > an AIFF file, before it could be used for much of anything). This > may, however, presage some sort of CD-ROM to DSP sound chip > capability in future Macintoshes. > > Information from: > Craig O'Donnell -- 72511.240@compuserve.com Whee! Now if we can indeed get a fairly-cheap output board (perhaps an Audiomedia board with suitably-hacked drivers), your local Quadra could be a serious threat to the Indigo and the NeXT as a csound machine. --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:01:47 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Good news for csound-wanabees on the Mac What we need now is a version of Alchemy that can pull samples from audio CD's via SCSI; then we can Break The Law in the digital domain, without a sampler. Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 15:37:05 -0400 From: SHAWN MORGAN Subject: hard disk recording Does anybody know what's available in terms of speed and capacity for hard disk recording? I'd be looking to set up a small network of about 5 or 6 computers to share the task of editing about 10 samples each. Each sample is anywhere from 1min to 10minutes in length. That is, I'd like to be able to have 6 computers editing about 10 samples each from the same hard drive simultaneously. The budget is near inexhaustible. Thanks for the help, Shawn Morgan MORGANS@SSCVAX.CIS.McMaster.CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:25:49 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: MIDI on SGIs >I'm looking at getting some MIDI I/O up on a Silicon Graphics Indigo. Am I >right in assuming a Mac MIDI interface will work? I believe the Indigo is >using RS-232, rather RS-422. Can anyone share any gems of wisdom in this >regard? We have the Media kit, it is just the decision of the MIDI hardware >which needs to be finalised. I know that at least one developer is porting MIDI software and interface hardware to the Indigo right now, but not from the Mac. It's Blue Ribbon Soundworks, who have developed products for the Commodore Amiga. -- mike metlay | atomic city | "Sorry, I think Mike's right. It *is* p. o. box 81175 | 'hrrr mooble eeble'...." pittsburgh pa 15217-0675 | metlay@netcom.com | (j. mcmahon) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 11:50:12 PST From: Leigh Smith Subject: MIDI on SGIs Hi readers, I'm looking at getting some MIDI I/O up on a Silicon Graphics Indigo. Am I right in assuming a Mac MIDI interface will work? I believe the Indigo is using RS-232, rather RS-422. Can anyone share any gems of wisdom in this regard? We have the Media kit, it is just the decision of the MIDI hardware which needs to be finalised. -- =--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--= | Leigh Smith _--_|\ Email: leigh@psychok.DIALix.oz.au | | / \ Tel (H): +61-9-450-2014 | | Perth --> *_.--._/ Perth, Western Australia | | v | =--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:03:43 -0500 From: Harold Miller Subject: Re: MIDI on SGIs I was @ SGI headquarters in California a few months ago and I saw an indigo hooked up to a synth via midi. The tech person their assured me that the SGI and Mac can both use the same interface. Harold Miller cnet2sh@uhccvx.uhcc.hawaii.edu ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 11:09:00 EST From: Mario Vergona Subject: ROLAND MV-30 Hi, Over the holidays I purchased a ROLAND MV-30 which is a box that has an MC-50 sequencer and the sound engine of a D-70. I would be interested in hearing from anyone else that has the same machine. I would also like to know if it can accept dumps of sounds. After reading the manual a few times I get the impression that the only way to load sounds into it is thru the disk drive. I would also like to know if there is a way of loading ROM patch data directly into the memory. I can access sounds on cards but I would like them resident so I could store them to a diskette. Any help/info would be greatly appreciated. m ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 08:52:22 CST From: Eric Nielsen Subject: Sampling, MIDI, SB, etc. since you are interested in programs, sounds, information, etc. about your SB card, you might want to subscribe to the list IBMSND-L. To do so, send a SUBSCRIBE command in a note to LISTSERV@BROWNVM. (If you need any information about how to do this, let me know). IBMSND-L is specifically about sound cards like the Sound Blaster. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:30:02 BDB From: Flavio Bressan da Luz <87141167@BRUFSC.BITNET> Subject: SB pro/Computers/MIDI possibilities Hello Fellows, I have a friend that was in this same situation few months ago. He has a 486 clone running at 33 MHz and a Yamaha MIDI portatone. Then, he call me to help him. I have knowledge in MIDI and computers connections, but, at that age, I don't knew anything about SB pro. We went to another friend that has the device, and I read the little manual. We toy a lot with the thing. My impressions: . MIDI: Have the basic implementation to work. We still not test contro- llers and another powerful things. . TIMBRE: As you know, SB pro is GENERAL MIDI, what only means that the sequence of the patches is standartized. The patches are the same of the Roland MT32 sound module, but, there are some sounds that are not like the originals. Example: The CHOIRAHHS sound not remember the original. I think that is a trick to save memory. The overall quality is so so. If you not heard the sounds, hear it. However, when you use the sounds in a good arrangement, the deffects not appears. . FM synth: I still not test. . Sampling capabilities: Good. You have many sampling frequences to choose (this is related with the sound quality). You can use the sampled sounds in customized programs and others programs that use the .voc or .wav sound file standard. Together with SB pro, there is a program called SEQUENCER PLUS, from Voyetra. Is a easy to use sequencer, with 40+ tracks, graphic note editing and many other features. Is a good start. Also with the package, is the MIDI KIT, that is the MIDI plug. One side is atached in the SB joystick port, and the other side are the MIDI IN and OUT plugs. No more hardware to get the system working. Now, about future expansion, this will depend if SB pro is full compatible with Roland MPU401 MIDI interface. If yes, no problem. If no, you will depend of drivers to get power software running your SB pro. My friend is newcomer to MIDI world too, and, for while, the system is working very well for him needs. I believe that SB pro will not have problems to be drived by power software, because Creative Labs intend to turn SB pro the stardard for multimedia applications, then SB pro need to be full MIDI compatible with the MPU. Hope this helps, Flavio P.s.: Please, don't send mail in this topic to EMUSIC-L. The right place of this kind of questions is SYNTH-L@AUVM , Ok? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:32:22 CST From: "My opinions are logical, but not supported by facts" Subject: Sound Blaster Handling. >> >> My music card supports midi files. I have two questions about them. >> Can I change the programs by myself to make other music orrgans ? (How ?) >> I mean something like a sampler. I want to record a bell and use it instead >> of the grand piano. If my midi does not support bells IS this possible ??? >> >This is, as you say, very much dependent on what your soundblaster can do. >MIDI files by themselves carry no sound information, merely "start a note- >end a note"-type information. If you can sample sounds using the Soundblaster, >you should in principle be able to substitute them for other sounds. Umm, actually not true. The Sound Blaster series (like all PC sound cards) uses two seperate technologies for 'sampling' and MIDI sound performance. The 'sampling' is actually A/D and D/A reproduction, and does not allow for pitch change without physically changing the 'sample'. These samples are stored in .WAV files, and are most often played back using card-specific software, although Windows 3.1 (and Cakewalk/Windows specifically) allow these sounds to be played back by any supported sound card. Since sampling allows for the pitch of the sampler to be changed by altering the sample playback rate (allowing for chipmunking and the famous 'gyutosmurfing'), and no current PC sound card has this capability, you cannot use 'sampled' sounds as replacements for internal sounds. The Sound Blaster (as well as all current PC sound cards) has a seperate FM-based synthesizer for MIDI playback. These things are typically pretty weak, noisy, 2-operator things, and are difficult to use in a quality music studio setting. >> One second question. >> The midi program I'm using support 16 sounds. That means 16 channels or >> 16 voices. >> For example in a channel I can hear at least 4 voices at the time. (Of the >> same >> program). That means I can use 4*16 voices at least ? It sound very good to >> be real.... >> >I wish this was true. Unfortunately, the card has to split its *total* of >sixteen voices (referred to as "polyphony", usually) amoung all of the notes >being played. I'm not sure what the Soundblaster does, but most other >synthesis engines will either ignore notes in excess of 16 simultaneous notes, >or will silence a currently-sounding note to produce a new one. This is >called "voice stealing". You probably only have 16 voices total, which is >different from 16 channels. A MIDI channel is a logical signal path, >independent of the actual instruments. Each message sent out over MIDI is >"addressed" to a specific channel. This allows you to control several >instruments with only a single cable connected to the computer. Each >instrument can be set up to receive on specific channels, so you could >(for instance) put piano on channel 1, bass on channel 2, and drums on >channel 3. Each instrument receives all of the MIDI messages, but ignores >all of them except for the ones specifically addressed to it. > > [other stuff deleted] > --- Joe M. Very true. The Sound Blaster has a primative will in fact silence the notes in order played. All 16 MIDI channels are supported, but with maximum of 16 voices. Furthermore, Sound Blaster cards are typically treated as 'Entry Level GM Devices', meaning that they are typically used for channels 11-16, and are expected to provide 6-voice + percussion in any multi-media type of presentation/software. Hope this helps. In the future, you may want to direct these types of inquiries to the IBMSND-L list, which is specific to IBM PC compatible sound cards. As for my use, I use a Pro Audio Spectrum 16, and am working on integrating it into my sound production system. Other than the ~~~NOISE~~~ of the thing, I am moderately happy; although I now wish I'd have spent the money on a Turtle Beach Multisound card instead. Price difference ($220 US vs. $750 US) notwithstanding.... [ddg] ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************