EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 50, Issue 07 This issue's topics: Beginner's question: SR-16 to sequencer MIDI xfer (4 messages) D-70 Sys Ex (3 messages) Key Midiator, MIDI Programming MS Windows, etc. (3 messages) Proteus 1 General Midi Setup (5 messages) Real-time Edit Buffer Changes (3 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 12:33:25 GMT From: Jeff Preston Subject: Beginner's question: SR-16 to sequencer MIDI xfer Sorry to bother y'all with what is hopefully a dumb beginner's question which has a simple solution, but I'd really appreciate a clue if anyone here has a loose one to spare. I'm trying to transmit MIDI data from my Alesis SR-16 drum machine to a newly-acquired Brother PDC-100 sequencer so's I can make a backup of all the patterns and songs I have stored in the SR-16. For some reason, all the PDC-100 seems to be receiving is the SysEx data, and no MIDI note data at all. I poured over the manuals to both units (priding myself on being a good manual- reader, heh), and found the problem described in the SR-16's "troubleshooting chart," but both fixes described there were already being implemented as far as I could tell (drum out = ON; MIDI channel send/receive on SR-16/PDC-100 both set to OMNI, or both set to same channel). Setting the PDC-100 to the "display" mode and starting to send MIDI data to from the SR-16, it only indicates the SysEx data being received, but that's it. After the SR-16 finishes sending, you can hit the pads on it or play a pattern while the PDC-100 is still in "display" mode, and lo and behold it will show which MIDI notes are being received. Oddly enough though, it shows a constant`"off" condition where note on/off status is displayed -- I'm assuming that's got something to do with the PDC-100 not recording the note data. Why would the SR-16 be transmitting a constant "note off" message? Or is that what's going on? Is there a fix? Gee, I know even less about MIDI than I do about jazz! :) Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Preston =*= Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= atavachron@morekypr.morehead-st.edu =*=*=*= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 07:33:57 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: Beginner's question: SR-16 to sequencer MIDI xfer > Sorry to bother y'all with what is hopefully a dumb beginner's >question which has a simple solution, but I'd really appreciate a >clue if anyone here has a loose one to spare. A clue? ME? Hee hee hee snrk cough..... I've deleted the first part of your inquiry in deference to Bill Fox, who I think hit it spang on in desicribing your problem with storing data on the Brother. There's a difference between dumping MIDI data, which usually involves compacted SysEx files, and storing the NOTES THEMSELVES on the sequencer. To do the latter, if you want your Brother to play the Alesis rather than merely sync to it, simply set the Brother to record and hit "PLAY" on the Alesis, and let it play its data into the sequencer. As for your second query.... >it shows a constant`"off" condition where note >on/off status is displayed -- I'm assuming that's got something >to do with the PDC-100 not recording the note data. Why would >the SR-16 be transmitting a constant "note off" message? Or is >that what's going on? Is there a fix? Nope, that's not what's going on and there isn't a "fix" per se. Drum hits from a drum machine have no sustain characteristics (barring certain exceptions); they are extremely short notes that trigger events in the drum box. You're only seeing note offs because the note on flickers by so fast the display and your eyes can't catch it. Try this as a test. Set the Brother to record, and play a few pads on the Alesis by hand. Then try playing back the Brother into the Alesis. Even though the display can't show the note ons, you should still hear the notes play back. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I'm looking for a woman with a REALLY sexy pancreas." (m. t. jackson) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 20:07:23 GMT From: Doug Plate Subject: Re: Beginner's question: SR-16 to sequencer MIDI xfer In article <1okbmlINNrie@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> preston@morekypr.morehead-st.edu writes: > > Sorry to bother y'all with what is hopefully a dumb beginner's >question which has a simple solution, but I'd really appreciate a >clue if anyone here has a loose one to spare. > I'm trying to transmit MIDI data from my Alesis SR-16 drum >machine to a newly-acquired Brother PDC-100 sequencer so's I can >make a backup of all the patterns and songs I have stored in the >SR-16. For some reason, all the PDC-100 seems to be receiving is >the SysEx data, and no MIDI note data at all. I poured over the [...] This is correct. You will not see note on/off messages when you dump the data from the SR-16. The note data for the patterns and songs is encoded into the Sys-ex dump. If you dump that sys-ex back to the SR-16, all the patterns and songs would be restored via the sys-ex. >indicates the SysEx data being received, but that's it. After the >SR-16 finishes sending, you can hit the pads on it or play a >pattern while the PDC-100 is still in "display" mode, and lo and >behold it will show which MIDI notes are being received. Oddly >enough though, it shows a constant`"off" condition where note >on/off status is displayed -- I'm assuming that's got something >to do with the PDC-100 not recording the note data. Why would >the SR-16 be transmitting a constant "note off" message? Or is >that what's going on? Is there a fix? You see a constant note-off condition because the SR-16 sends a note on, immediately followed by a note on and the PDC-100 doesn't have time to update the display between the two messages. This makes sense (sort of), since the drum box is a percussion instrument, it sends the note on/off as sort of a pulse. I guess you can't really hit a stick to a drum, have it sustain while you hold the stick on the head, then have it decay when you let up :-). > > Thanks, You're welcome! > > Jeff >-- >Jeff Preston =*= Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum >=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= atavachron@morekypr.morehead-st.edu =*=*=*= Regards, Doug Sr. -- ()(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)() / plate@cdsmn.mn.org \ / / Doug Plate Sr. | "Assume no malice!" \ \ (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1993 00:47:18 GMT From: Todd Kaufmann Subject: Re: Beginner's question: SR-16 to sequencer MIDI xfer Organization: Center for Machine Translation, Carnegie Mellon University I have a pdc-100 (any others out there?), and a little experience with getting it to talk to other midi devices (pss-680 mostly, quadraverb). So, here's my insight on the problem, hopefully correct. if not, hopefully I'll be corrected. > I'm trying to transmit MIDI data from my Alesis SR-16 drum > machine to a newly-acquired Brother PDC-100 sequencer so's I can > make a backup of all the patterns and songs I have stored in the > SR-16. For some reason, all the PDC-100 seems to be receiving is > the SysEx data, and no MIDI note data at all. how are you trying to send it? via dump, or play? (I'm assuming there's a sysex dump function, and play is what you do when a human wants to hear a composition.) dump is going to dump any memory contents (rhythm tracks, your composition) as sysex data representing whatever internal form it uses (there is no "standard" midi file format; each sysex differs). This should be re-loadable from the pdc-100 into the sr-16 when you "play" the sysex data from the sr-16. this should hopefully restore the sr-16 to former state (at dump time). hopefully it won't wipe it out. when you 'play' a composition on the sr-16, do you get "NOTE" data (appearing on pdc-100 display)? if yes, this is the only way to transfer from sr-16 to pdc-100 in a "midi" mode. If you have some internal structure that you want to save, you will have to send it in parts, probably record them as separate tracks on the pdc-100, then re-assemble them on the sr-16. Or, just do all composition on the pdc-100 (lovely 6-key interface, eh?); that is, play from sr-16 or keyboard or other midi source into tracks/units on the pdc-100, and cut-n-paste there. yuck. need a computer. but i'm sure the sr-16 has a better interface than the pdc-100. anything has a better interface... if no, then this is very strange. hardware bug? call alesis and ask why not--make sure it should. Dr. Rhythm doesn't even have midi out! midi in only! So, you should try to save via "play" first, even though you will lose the structure, just as a backup before you try sending sysex data back to it. Here's a tip for sysex dumping: record at high tempo (resolution) on the pdc-100 when you dump sysex data, to make sure you don't lose any. I use tempo=200 when dumping from my yamaha. if playing back of sysex data causes problems, you might try reducing the tempo... this is sometimes necessary with my yamaha, but may be a deficiency in their implementation (and old hardware). > I poured over the > manuals to both units (priding myself on being a good manual- > reader, heh), and found the problem described in the SR-16's > "troubleshooting chart," but both fixes described there were > already being implemented as far as I could tell (drum out = ON; > MIDI channel send/receive on SR-16/PDC-100 both set to OMNI, or > both set to same channel). how about the midi implementation chart in the back of the sr-16 manual? what does it say for note data sending? are there different "modes" (play v. realtime?) ? > Oddly > enough though, it shows a constant`"off" condition where note > on/off status is displayed -- I'm assuming that's got something > to do with the PDC-100 not recording the note data. Why would > the SR-16 be transmitting a constant "note off" message? Or is > that what's going on? Is there a fix? No, I think percussion (ch 16 events) are of 0 length. On the pdc-100, record some pad hits on track 1. Then go to event edit for track 1, and check the events. There is probably a "NOTE ON" message when you hit the pad, but the OFF comes so quickly afterwards that you won't see it. If you single step through the track 1 events, you should hear the drums being hit. You should see the events -- not sure what the note length ("L") is; i think zero, but if there's any note data there you'll see it. Does the SR-16 have a mode where it doesn't play anything? A possibility is to use this, with the pdc-100 set to MIDI ECHO: ON. that what I do with my cheap yamaha pss-680 (best way for multitimbral play). You might want to try all four combinations, if sr-16 has that function. Also, are there any midi filters activated (maybe not applicable if it doesn't have THRU plug). Yeah, it can be confusing getting two midi devices talking to each other for the first time. the pdc-100 is nice for stand-alone use, or for on the road performance, but not if you want something for editing/composing. -todd ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 18:05:51 -0600 From: RBF1620@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Subject: D-70 Sys Ex Hey I have a Roland D-70 keyboard. I am just getting into system exclusive message. And I'm wondering if anyone knows the possibilities for this synth. I have used Cakewalk Pro to save patches so I don't have to mess up patches that are already there (the D-70 is sort of limited in memory). I was wondering if it is possible to send a smaller message to the D-70 that would just change certain parameters of a patch. Right now I only know how to send a 2001 byte entire patch to Cakewalk and have Cakewalk send it back. It also accepts messages to change the chorus and reverb effects but passes along with the patch (actually "performance") information. Do either Quest librarians by Sound Quest or XOR librarians have the capabilities to send a message to change only the effect. Or is there another librarian that could accomplish this. I would appreciate any information anyone might have. In the Dark, Ryan Fogarty P.S. Even the guys at Roland were stumped by this one. rbf1620@exodus.valpo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 20:18:25 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: D-70 Sys Ex >Hey > >I have a Roland D-70 keyboard. I am just getting into system exclusive message. >And I'm wondering if anyone knows the possibilities for this synth. >I would appreciate any information anyone might have. WA HA HA HA HAAAA! Ahem. Sorry. Actually it's a very good question, and one that doesn't have a nice neat answer, alas. Roland SysEx is famous for being extremely touchy-- the D-70 is supported by several editors, including Galaxy Plus and XOR, but trying to write one's own code has driven many good men mad. The MKS-70 is even worse. Nick Rothwell has done some work with the D-70 with his Mac program ANODYNE, but I don't know if he ever got it to work.... >P.S. Even the guys at Roland were stumped by this one. That doesn't goddamn surprise me. Roland US tech support is the worst in the business. Call Roland Canada in Vancouver if you need help, and lie about where you're from. It's easier and faster, and the data you get is more up to date and usually correct. One of these days, I'll post a transcript of what I went through when I called Roland US to learn what the most current ROM for the D-70 was. It would be a laugh riot if it didn't cost me two hours on the phone at premium long distance rates. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- What were the skies like when you were young? Oh, they went on forever.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 18:21:44 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: D-70 Sys Ex (I suggest any follow-ups to this go to SYNTH-L rather than EMUSIC-L.) >Nick Rothwell >has done some work with the D-70 with his Mac program ANODYNE, but >I don't know if he ever got it to work.... Interestingly, Roland SysEx from the D-70 era is surprisingly neat and functional. They really screwed up with the MKS-70 (I ask you, representing a 0..100 value parameter change as 0..127?) and quite a few things don't work there. I wrote a reasonably complete editor but the librarian was beyond me; I gave up trying to understand how they coded 96 bytes into 57 for bulk transfer. Unisyn does a reasonable job, though it gets a few things wrong, and the MKS-70 displays some weird pages during bulk transfer. The only reason Unisyn deals with the machine as well as it does is that it was written by Germans. After the MKS-70, Roland moved away from the parameter-change format used by other manufacturers and towards a memory-map scheme, where everything (patch store, edit buffers, even the characters in the front-panel display) sits somewhere in a virtual memory space. (It's probably also the physical memory space.) There is one unified scheme for SysEx. if you want to load a bank, you rewrite a large part of the address space. (Not in one go, alas: you can only read/write 256 bytes at a time, for some reason explained in the small print which leaves me unconvinced. Hence, a bulk dump is several SysEx's.) If you want to change a parameter, you write a 1-byte chunk of memory somewhere in the edit buffer space. It's really nice. They didn't quite get it working properly on the D-50, but on the D-110 and D-70 it works fine. The D-110 implementation was good enough that I never touched the D-110 front panel for years. The D-70 is a slow machine, but this SysEx scheme seems to work fine, and it's a great help for a machine with twenty-seven edit buffers. Fairly soon now I'll be doing the same as the original poster suggested: decoupling D-70 effects from performances, so that I can alter effects and keep the current part settings in place. (It comes down to that "voice path" thing I was wittering on about a week or two back.) I'm currently doing the same for the Wavestation, but that requires journalising and resequencing of the parameter changes, so it's a seriously non-trivial task, and needs a lot of MAX and C external code... -- Nick Rothwell, Editor-in-Chief, Jane's Fighting Sysex. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1993 17:01:00 EST From: Robert Depin Subject: Key Midiator, MIDI Programming MS Windows, etc. Hope someone can provide me with a little information: I just got off the phone with Charles at Key Electronics regarding pro- gramming their midiator interfaces. According to Charles the key.dll which they ship and is included with other MS window MIDI software (Cakewalk) use the convential windows MME extensions. He further indicated that the driver is a modified version of the soundblaster driver. My question is basically, has anyone done any MIDI programming in MS windows ? Is there any information available for using MME drivers (ftp'able source code, books, etc.) available ? I have the done some DOS programming using Key's C drivers kit and I'm quite familiar with their interface. Any suggestions or information greatly be appreciated. Bob DEPIN@TARGET.COM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 11:17:56 EST From: Simon Weatherill Subject: Re: Key Midiator, MIDI Programming MS Windows, etc. I'm very interested in interfacing with a MS Windows MIDI device driver. I've only just started programming under Windows, but would like to find out more about the device drivers. Thanks, Simon A.T. Weatherill Senior Network Engineer +---------------------------------------------------------------+ + Burlington Coat Factory Voice: (603) 643-2800 + + Schoolhouse Lane Fax: (603) 643-3945 + + Etna, NH 03750 Internet: simon.weatherill@coat.com + +---------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 15:55:10 EST From: tjt@BLINK.ATT.COM Subject: re: Key Midiator, MIDI Programming MS Windows, etc. > My question is basically, has anyone done any MIDI programming in MS > windows ? Is there any information available for using MME drivers (ftp'able > source code, books, etc.) available ? You can find one example of MIDI programming for Microsoft Windows in /pub/midi/software/misc/glib3.zip on louie.udel.edu (via FTP). Unlike the other examples I've seen around, this one shows all the variety of ways (long/short/sending/receiving) in which MIDI messages can (and must, unfortunately) be handled with the Windows multimedia functions. ...Tim Thompson...tjt@blink.att.com... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 23:47:40 -0600 From: Bruce Colton Subject: Proteus 1 General Midi Setup Has anybody configured a patch setup for the E-MU Proteus-1 that they feel is a good semblance to a General Midi setup. If so, would it be possible to post the patch somewhere for retrieval or reply with the setup description? Thanks in advance. Bruce Colton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 14:32:49 +0300 From: Alon Amit Subject: Re: Proteus 1 General Midi Setup On Tue, 9 Mar 1993, Bruce Colton wrote: > Has anybody configured a patch setup for the E-MU Proteus-1 that they feel > is a good semblance to a General Midi setup. If so, would it be possible to > post the patch somewhere for retrieval or reply with the setup description? > Thanks in advance. > > Bruce Colton Find someone with Windows 3.1. The MIDI manager which comes bundled with windows 3.1 contains a full general-MIDI setup for the Proteus/1. (Why, of all synths, the Proteus, is a mystery to me). If you can't manage this, tell me, and I'll post you the list. The point is, if you happen to work with a Windows-compatible sequencer and a Proteus, you don't have to do any actual repatching - just send the sequence thru the MIDI manager. Good luck! - A. A. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 08:57:21 EST From: wbf@ALUXPO.ATT.COM Subject: Re: Proteus 1 General MIDI Setup On Tue, 9 Mar 1993, Bruce Colton wrote: > Has anybody configured a patch setup for the E-MU Proteus-1 that they feel Then, on Wed, 10 Mar 1993 14:32:49 +0300, Amit responded: > Find someone with Windows 3.1. The MIDI manager which comes bundled with > windows 3.1 contains a full general-MIDI setup for the Proteus/1. (Why, > of all synths, the Proteus, is a mystery to me). The reason why Windows 3.1 contains a GM setup for the Proteus/1 may be due to the fact that Emu, before being bought by a company in the Pacific Rim (I forget which country and company, off hand), had licensed its technology to that company which makes GM sound cards for the PC. Bill Fox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 10:23:08 EST From: Wayne Hawthorne Subject: Re: Proteus 1 General Midi Setup Hi, how are you? For a general midi setup, what exactly do you mean? If you are using the Proteus with a keyboard controller and a computer, here's what you do: 1) Come OUT of the computer and IN to the Proteus. 2) Come OUT of the keyboard and IN to the computer. The computer serves as the link so that the Proteus patches can be directly accessed from the keyboard. An even more direct method is to go from the keyboard THROUGH to the Proteus IN. The problem here is that you have to refer to the keyboard and the Proteus manuals to find out how to distinguish between the keyboard and Proteus patches and how to access them individually. Hope this helped!! If anyone has a better method (I'm sure there is), feel free to join in! -Wayne Hawthorne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 14:41:20 PST From: Casey Dunn Subject: Re: Proteus 1 General Midi Setup You said (Re: Re: Proteus 1 General Midi Setup) > Hi, how are you? > > For a general midi setup, what exactly do you mean? If you are using the > [stuff deleted] > -Wayne Hawthorne I think the original poster was asking about General MIDI, a spec for patch assignments, and not "MIDI in general". casey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 13:44:58 EST From: wbf@ALUXPO.ATT.COM Subject: Real-time Edit Buffer Changes On Tue, 16 Feb 1993 Neil Leonard wrote: > I am looking for sysex specs or code to edit FB01 paramaters. I am > looking to write a program that can read any of the 8 FB01 instrument edit > buffers, modify the paramaters and rewrite them in real-time. I have > done this on the TX81Z. It is really intersting, each note can have a > radically different quality. Neil, this sounds interesting. I have two TX81Zs and would like to hear what you're doing. Can you describe your methods? Is your program for the TX81Z available? Bill Fox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 10:55:40 PST From: Casey Dunn Subject: Real-time Edit Buffer Changes You said (Re: Real-time Edit Buffer Changes) > On Tue, 16 Feb 1993 Neil Leonard wrote: > > I am looking for sysex specs or code to edit FB01 paramaters. I am > > looking to write a program that can read any of the 8 FB01 instrument edit > > buffers, modify the paramaters and rewrite them in real-time. I have > > done this on the TX81Z. It is really intersting, each note can have a > > radically different quality. > > Neil, this sounds interesting. I have two TX81Zs and would like to hear > what you're doing. Can you describe your methods? Is your program for > the TX81Z available? > > Bill Fox INDEED! please expound... casey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 15:29:33 -0500 From: NLEONARD@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU Subject: Re: Real-time Edit Buffer Changes The basic idea is to write a program that dumps the paramaters for a TX81Z voice to the computer. Make a file that specifies the amount of deviation that you wish to hear on each parameter. Using the data from the TX81Z and your file which specifies allowable deviation, generate patch variations in real-time. I am using my code written in Think C in a composition package I use on the Mac. Good Luck, Neil nleonard@ecn.mass.edu ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************