EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 50, Issue 19 This issue's topics: continuation of paperless composing (2 messages) DSP Aid in Acoustic Instrument Building George Lewis letter in ICMA magazine Looking for Bill Fleischer MULTIMEDIA BS New Association Performing Rights Organizations? The next wave ... The next wave ... (2 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 09:39:07 EST From: ronin Subject: continuation of paperless composing here's just a little personal observation to throw into the soup... i have owned fo some time now a hardware sequencer: the kawai q80. it operates pretty much as advertised (only one missing feature) and is reasonably robust (only one crash since the rom update). it was cost- effective, freed up my computer for research (i mistake i am trying to rectify by appropriate scrounging), and is only mildly irritating to operate. most relevant here is that it only loops entire tracks, sort of like cakewalk under normal conditions. it is not at all like some other sequencers i have used which allow me to chain together lumps of loops into lumpy music. for the most part, i have not been bothered by this, being too easily content with repetition of well-designed patterns in lieu of melodic development. one feature that has supported this habit is the ability to switch tracks on and off at will, in realtime. i can build 24 tracks of extremely dense funk, and cut lines in and out on the fly. great for dance music. recently, i had to do a piece for dance (as opposed to dance music) and originally approached the task with some trepidation. the thing had to be about 12 minutes long, and i knew damn well that 12 minutes of the same sequence, no matter how cleverly edited, was just going to be crap. by the same token, the machine's design prevented me from taking the tack i used to for this kind of thing, where i would build longer pieces by the afore- mentioned process of lumping. lo and behold, i was forced to compose. actually to sit down, count out measures, construct lines, arrange them properly, consider transitional moments, know the piece well enough to be able to move a phrase by an appropriate number of counts of six or four when the dancer changed her approach to a part... it really was quite a revelation. also very hard. also very rewarding. it forced me in some ways to simplify the music, since i had to concentrate so much on its structural dimensions, but it also imparted each element with much more meaning. not that there isn't repetition... i did my share of cutting and pasting. but the requirement to do it explicitly each time really made me aware of the piece as i made it. oh, and by the way, i agree with nick. while some forms are being developed that do require some rare tools (like really good computer graphics, for instance), most art worth paying attention to is made with pretty mundane materials (like japanese calligraphy, for instance). i am not a purist. i do not believe that one must affect the posture of intense creative spirit drawing transcendent meaning from the only the rawest matter. nor do i believe that the opposite posture of effete esotericism of both subject and technique imparts any significant merit. i simply think that an artist works with what they've got. if they can clean up the brushwork by buying a better brush, then more power to 'em, but it doesn't make the art worth any more or less. -----------< Cognitive Dissonance is a 20th Century Art Form >----------- Eric Harnden (Ronin) or The American University Physics Dept. 4400 Mass. Ave. NW, Washington, DC, 20016-8058 (202) 885-2748 (with Voice Mail) ---------------------< Join the Cognitive Dissidents >------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 07:47:37 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: continuation of paperless composing >by the >same token, the machine's design prevented me from taking the tack i used >to for this kind of thing, where i would build longer pieces by the afore- >mentioned process of lumping. lo and behold, i was forced to compose. actually >to sit down, count out measures, construct lines, arrange them properly, >consider transitional moments, know the piece well enough to be able to >move a phrase by an appropriate number of counts of six or four when the >dancer changed her approach to a part... it really was quite a revelation. I think this is actually an aspect of the tools. What I do is "lumping" I think, according to your definition: put together sub-sections of the entire orchestration (where a sub-section might be a rhythm loop, a solo, or a complete performance), and decide on the length, often beforehand ("hmm, let's have eight bars of that and then a 3-bar crossover). With a tempo in mind, the conversion between bars and minutes/seconds is easy, and so a required 12 minutes of music is 420 or whatever bars. Or it's three 4-minute sections of different tempos, so that's 50 bars at slow, 200 bars fast, and then etc. etc. So: I consider this to be similar to the composition process you describe above (though I skirt around some of the aspects of it - I've never constructed a line in my life). And if I want to move a phrase by a number of counts or whatever: well, I can pick up the sequence chunk (which is labelled 30|1|000 at the beginning and 38|1|000 at the end) and just drag it a few beats to one side or another. I hardly ever jam over infinite loops, by the way. (Actually, I'm not into jam sessions at all, except perhaps as a chance to roll something on tape and then go over it via post-mortem and identify the musically good ideas, and assemble those again from scratch.) Practically every loop I construct I do so by keeping in mind how long it's going to be (even if this changes later). My key point here is that I really don't think you can compose by starting at bar 1|1|000 and walking off into the sunset: the resulting rise and fall of energy will be all wrong. You have to see the fencepost you're walking towards and know how far away it is. Of course, the 32-bar thing you end up with might be 5 minutes into the piece eventually, but it has to be limited and shaped in and of itself. >i did my share of cutting and pasting. but the requirement to >do it explicitly each time really made me aware of the piece as i made it. OK, I suspect that's giving you the same kind of discipline, but just in a different way. Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:31:14 -0500 From: Brian Adamson Subject: DSP Aid in Acoustic Instrument Building Hello all, Although this isn't directly electronic music related, I thought there might be some interest here... or someone who could point me to the correct mail/news group or person to talk to. I've been asked to help (although I haven't committed myself to the responsibility yet) a violin maker in Accokeek, MD (local to the Washington, DC area) in applying some signal processing techniques to analysis of violins and cellos. The violin maker's name is Bob Spear. One of his more significant credentials is that Rostopovich (SP?) plays his cello. He and Alex Thornhill (who works here at NRL, too) also won an Audiophile loud speaker contest a year or two ago (Mr. Spear's hobby is making loud speakers). They currently use a mildy automated analog circuits approach to analysis... They use a PC to control a signal source (oscillator) and use transducers to excite the violin/ cello or directly excite the speaker. A microphone and Digital Volt Meter (with an RS-232 interface to the PC) is used to record the response. As you can imagine, the set of results obtained from this approach is fairly limited (although that hasn't prevented them from getting admirable results probably due to great ears). Anyway, they have little to no experience with DSP, but it could probably make their analyses quicker or easier and so another friend here at NRL (Tom Moran, an amateur violin maker taking lessons from the Spears) suggested that I (given my interest in music & expertise in DSP) may be of help to them. My concern in pursuing this is one of a committment of time (which is somewhat limited for me). So I'm asking if anyone on the list has applicable experience or interest in such audio analysis or knows anyone who might. Tom Moran and I have discussed tackling the process of outlining the approach of applying DSP to the problem and perhaps even prototyping some software approaches in our spare time. I am not interested in hardware suggestions... I'm fairly cognizant of DSP options for the PC... but rather if anyone has been involved in similar projects and has advice to offer...or if there is someone here local to the Washington DC area who would like to make a committment of time to such an endeavor....? If anyone has anything (advice, etc) to offer, please e-mail me Thanks for your time. ____________________________________________________________________ | _ _ _ | | /|\ /\ /\_ _ /\ /\ R. Brian Adamson | | / || / / / / / / / / Naval Research Laboratory | | / /|| / / /_/_ _/ / / / Information Technology Division | | / / || / / / \_|\_\/ / / Code 5523 | | / / ||/ / / / || / / | | / / |/ / / / || /_/_ _ adamson@itd.nrl.navy.mil | | \/ \/ \/ \ \ _ _ _\ | |____________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 15:32:35 -0500 From: NLEONARD@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU Subject: George Lewis letter in ICMA magazine I heard that there is a very interesting letter by George Lewis in the latest ICMA newsletter. I am not a member. Could anyone please send me a copy, I would be happy to reimbuse you. Thanks, Neil Leonard Assistant Dir, Computer Arts Massachusetts College of Art 621 Huntington Ave Boston, MA 02115 nleonard@ecn.mass.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 14:27:14 -0500 From: Timothy Griffin Subject: Looking for Bill Fleischer Does anyone know where I can reach Bill Fleischer, author of the original Mirage Disk Editor? Tim Griffin griffint@COGNOS.COM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:56:13 GMT From: JOEL STERN Subject: MULTIMEDIA BS Michael Friesen said: >I'm not sure if I'd classify multimedia as 'boring', but it cert >all it's cracked up to be. The assumption is that your average c >operator is suddenly going to be able to crank out presentations >use of really impressive sounds.I don't consider this a realisti Not only that, but honestly--what's the average PC user going to do with multimedia? Make riveting presentations...for whom? The wife and kids? The INDUSTRY is in the midst of a hysterical campaign to create a universal "need" for another product line that isn't needed at all. They've created a special "multimedia" logo to put on things, just like "digital" and, "4WD" and "turbo" (I saw an add for a "turbo" breadmaker). Instead of spending advertising dollars like this I wish they'd concentrate on bringing useful technological advances to consumers at reasonable prices. Joel Stern stern@mail.loc.gov tel:301-588-8061 fax:301-585-7642 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:45:16 -0500 From: Jon Crystal Subject: New Association Thought northern New England subscribers to this list might be interested in the following plan: A new association is being organized to provide a forum for presentation and discussion of issues related to experimental and/or electronic music. The exact purpose and format will be defined by those who participate, but it may include sharing of compositional approaches, problem-solving technology and equipment issues, and joint endeavors of live performance. If interested in being notified of further developments, please send name, address and phone # to: Vermont Experimental and Electronic Music Association c/o Jon Crystal, 357 Waterman, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT 05405. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 12:49:00 PST From: metlay Subject: Performing Rights Organizations? Could someone be so kind as to get me a phone number for the central offices of ASCAP and BMI? Private email would be fine. I'd also like to hear from people who use either service, and get feedback (either positive or negative) from them. All accounts I've read to date seem to indicate that there's very little difference.... -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- What were the skies like when you were young? Oh, they went on forever.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 10:11:06 PST From: Casey Dunn Subject: The next wave ... > >For any of you, what do you > >see the trends in music being? Rap, reggae I hope will be the next wave. > > No. It'll be Balinese five-tone gamelan music with a backbeat. Trust me. a shuffle-beat, methinks. when in Bali this past fall the thing we kept hearing over and over was Sabilunlungan and somthing called "two hand" music. very sparse. the locals played it in bemos, in their homes... > > Oh, Casey: the correct spelling I believe is "d00d." > > Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk > CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk Nick; d00d! d00d! that is the spelling over in the ravenets; but my spelling is oft somting of a random vector across the phonem space. casey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 17:59:07 PST From: Casey Dunn Subject: Re: Frankfurt Musik Messe 1993 Posting, Part TwoMusic in where ou aFrom: Anthony Hodgetts (ye gods, I cannot resist...) > Hey Nick and the rest of you. This keyboard stuff blows me away. tres cool! indeed, I too am blasted by this keyboard stuff, it is tormented and enthralling and expensive all at once and I will not get any diseases from it it is just too cool dude. > For any of you, what do you > see the trends in music being? dermal patches with organic lasers downloading synaptic activity into a mix-masters arbitration nets, with team drumpads controlling the swapping in and out of successive net-sets. The vocals will be megabytes of Metlay flame-bait reamed through Cata-Stroph wetware hosted by methadrine sopping sea slugs as they clusterplook. > Rap, reggae I hope will be the next wave. which? both? aka "toasting"? I hope it is dub C&W goth. > Hey > any of you use mede in heavy metal music? Well that's all from Calgary > Alberta.. I drink mead when making heavy metal music. Anthony, your exuburance is delightfull! good luck, dude, that's all from silicon valley. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 07:50:17 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: The next wave ... >Hey Nick, >throw your address for your company out this way. I still think you and I mean different things by "Dance Company." It's like photography. You can photograph for Magnum, and you can photograph for page 3 of the Sun. >For any of you, what do you >see the trends in music being? Rap, reggae I hope will be the next wave. No. It'll be Balinese five-tone gamelan music with a backbeat. Trust me. I consider it at least a little important to stay out of this trend business. (To paraphrase the Chingford Skinhead, I might describe myself as "trend...Less.") Following trends is rather dumb IMHO, and doesn't strike me as rewarding. Setting trends requires exposure or a lot of luck. That's one of the reasons I'm working in the contemporary dance circles ("The other ..." "Shaddup metlay.") - small performance populace, potential coverage. Rap and reggae? I don' theen' so. CASSIEL don' play dat game. Oh, Casey: the correct spelling I believe is "d00d." Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************