EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 57, Issue 17 This issue's topics: synths (12 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 10:04:21 -0500 From: Dana Nibby Subject: SY85 I was playing with an SY85 the other day and was pretty impressed. I especially like the 8 sliders it had for real-time control of parameters (had great resonance filters to produce analog-type sounds, which is what I want it to do). My question is this: someone said this synth is a sample-playback synth only, as opposed to the other SYs, like the SY77. Is this true? Does the SY85 lack FM synthesis? If so, what am I missing. I primarily play dark/ambient/angelic/ethereal/ soundscape stuff, and also do some techno (was into it before it came into the mainstream.. *cringe*). I'd like to get whichever synth would be better at producing aggressive analog-style sounds. Something with a lot of punch, warmth, thickness. If the SY85 does not have FM synthesis, it at least has RCM synthesis? What is RCM synthesis? WHat makes it different from FM synthesis? Can the SY77 load-up samples? I know the SY77 can. Which is better for .......... Are the SY85's effects a lot better than the SY77? The SY85 sounds a lot brighter than the SY77. Anyone else agree with me here? That's what worried me about the SY77... Not bright enough... Or rather, not CRISP enough. So, which synth would YOU buy if you were me? (taking account of my needs) - Dana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 22:31:58 -0400 From: Dana Nibby Subject: synths What multi-timbral synth (under $1000 used) with approx. 16 note polyphony and some basic effects (reverb and delay) would do a good job of emulating a juno 106? (obviously must have resonant filters) (not looking for a module.) I'd also like to be able to emulate a tb303. I don't have the space or money to keep buying individual synths/ modules. Now that I think of it, I rather fancy the sounds that the Jupiter line of synths put out. I heard someone using a super-jupiter (module,yes?) live and it blew me away. Real fat, rich, deep, powerful sounds. Is it possible to get these kinds of sounds using FM synthesis? Could an SY77 emulate these? I can live without all the sliders the analog boards have. As long as I have a mod-wheel so I can modify at least one parameter like resonant filter frequency. I'm willing to program until my fingers bleed to get these kinds of sounds. I just want to know which multi-timbral synths (under $1000 used) are _capable_ of producing these kinds of sounds. Thanks, Dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 01:47:56 -0400 From: Robin D Gross Subject: Re: synths ROLAND JV-80 This keyboard has a strong analog section with a large amount of editability. The pcm samples are generally acoustic in nature, but the expansion boards posses some pretty cool stuff. Price is aprx. $1000 (mail order). I purchased mine from Sam Ash in NYC ( 1 800 4sa-mash). > > What multi-timbral synth (under $1000 used) with approx. 16 note > polyphony and some basic effects (reverb and delay) would do a good > job of emulating a juno 106? (obviously must have resonant filters) > (not looking for a module.) I'd also like to be able to emulate a tb303. > I don't have the space or money to keep buying individual synths/ > modules. > > Now that I think of it, I rather fancy the sounds that the Jupiter > line of synths put out. I heard someone using a super-jupiter (module,yes?) > live and it blew me away. Real fat, rich, deep, powerful sounds. > Is it possible to get these kinds of sounds using FM synthesis? > Could an SY77 emulate these? I can live without all the sliders the analog > boards have. As long as I have a mod-wheel so I can modify at least one > parameter like resonant filter frequency. > > I'm willing to program until my fingers bleed to get these kinds of > sounds. I just want to know which multi-timbral synths (under $1000 used) > are _capable_ of producing these kinds of sounds. > > > > Thanks, > > Dana > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:40:00 EDT From: John Rossi III Subject: Re: synths There is no 'ANALOG' section in the JV-80. There are some analog-like sounds which can be gotten, however, these are reminiscent of all the rest of the dull and boring Roland analog imitations. Seems to me as though most people have actually forgotten how analog really sounds. I just can't imaging some person trying to get that JV-80 sound 5 years from now. John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 10:25:45 -0400 From: Thom Cox Subject: Re: synths As for analog imitation, why not scrap the idea and get the real thing. I picked up an Oberheim Matrix 6R second hand for $350. I love this box! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:01:47 -0500 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: synths > There is no 'ANALOG' section in the JV-80. There are some analog-like sounds > which can be gotten, however, these are reminiscent of all the rest of the > dull and boring Roland analog imitations. Seems to me as though most people > have actually forgotten how analog really sounds. I just can't imaging some > person trying to get that JV-80 sound 5 years from now. I just wish there was some kind of great sound synthesis style for digital. FM was neat, but always harsh, not like analog. And now everything seems to be PCM sample based. As long as there isn't a unique digitial synthesis without using prepackaged waveforms, there will be fairly little demand for the "generic digital synth" sound 5 years from now. Damn, and i'm not even a real analogue head... -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Arne F. Claassen | | | | "It is by my will alone I set my mind in motion" | | finger for PGP public key | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:04:54 EDT From: "Sean F. Jepson" Subject: Re: synths On Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:40:00 EDT John Rossi III said: >There is no 'ANALOG' section in the JV-80. There are some analog-like sounds >which can be gotten, however, these are reminiscent of all the rest of the >dull and boring Roland analog imitations. Seems to me as though most people >have actually forgotten how analog really sounds. I just can't imaging some >person trying to get that JV-80 sound 5 years from now. > >John I have a JV-80 and I think it's great. It does have an expansion board available called analog synths. (or something like that) Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:27:00 EDT From: John Rossi III Subject: Re: synths Actually, if you discount the fact that the K2000 has a PCM playback engine as its main sound source, the chaaracter which can be added through VAST processing makes it more than that. Additionally, since VAST will generate simple waveforms, it does allow somewhat standard analog-like processing. Personally, I have had my K2000 for almost 20 months now and haven't even beguin to scratch the surface of what is possible with VAST. As I have said many times previously, the K2000 is the closest thing to a true modular digital synth to become available. There are sounds which it can make which nothing else can come close to. John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:16:12 -0800 From: Mike Friesen Subject: synths >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 22:31:58 -0400 >From: Dana Nibby >Subject: synths > > What multi-timbral synth (under $1000 used) with approx. 16 note >polyphony and some basic effects (reverb and delay) would do a good >job of emulating a juno 106? (obviously must have resonant filters) >(not looking for a module.) I'd also like to be able to emulate a tb303. > > Now that I think of it, I rather fancy the sounds that the Jupiter >line of synths put out. I heard someone using a super-jupiter (module,yes?) >live and it blew me away. Real fat, rich, deep, powerful sounds. >Is it possible to get these kinds of sounds using FM synthesis? >Could an SY77 emulate these? I can live without all the sliders the analog >boards have. As long as I have a mod-wheel so I can modify at least one >parameter like resonant filter frequency. Hi, Dana I'm afraid that my first reaction to your question was to laugh deeply and evilly, sneering "ain't _nuthin_ can sound like analog Roland gear". This is more or less true, but... I have found that my Yamaha V50 IS capable of generating some fabulously analog-esque sounds. The only caveat is that you have to give up all hope of playing big chords. You'll also have to do some judicious effects programming to get that "immediate" quality that I've always associated with analog. I've noodled with the SY77. The presets are appalling (IMO), but the architecture of the synth should allow you to do some nifty programming. If I can pull searing leads (really!) out of a 4-op/8-algorithm V50, then you should be able to get that much more out of the SY. [long rant about the prefab-bread style of some instruments deleted. Upshot -- why did Yamaha keep programming hideous strings for their FM machines; why did Roland keep putting appalling piano sounds into their LA synths; and why did Kurzweil put analog synth samples into an instrument without filters?? Conclusion -- know and accept the limitations of your instrument...] Good luck. Michael Friesen North Peace Secondary School Fort St. John, British Columbia, Canada Weeee... are the knights who say... MIDI!! ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:00:00 EDT From: John Rossi III Subject: Re: synths I never said that the JV-80 might not be great, its just not 'analog' and its digital imitations of analog synths just aren't that convincing. For a sample player, its not too bad. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:52:25 -0700 From: john krikawa Subject: Re: Re : synths M.Friesen in response to Dana, >-- why did Yamaha keep programming hideous strings for their FM machines; >why did Roland keep putting appalling piano sounds into their LA synths; >and why did Kurzweil put analog synth samples into an instrument without >filters?? Conclusion -- know and accept the limitations of your >instrument...] I presume you're not talking about the K2000.....it's a big ol' expensive filter, with much resonance... _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:32:26 EDT From: Bill Mclaughlin Subject: Re: synths i have an ensoniq sqr-2 plus - the older version and i find it to be really good for the money- i really like the grand piano sound- two limitations i especially don't like are mine has only 21 voices- the new ones have 32 , also the effect you choose must be applied univerally to a preset (using the presets is the only way to get your 8 parts) you must then route all the other sounds (tracks, channels) to a simple reverb effect or dry. one other thing that really sucks is that the upgrade from 21 voices to 32 costs something like $400 - to me, ensoniq is saying SCREW YOU DUDE !!! BUT ANOTHER ONE ! which of course i will never do. i bought mine ( a demo ) about two years ago for $600 so i think it was ok - my next cheap module wil be a proteus - unless someone can tell me different (???)- see ya.... lonesomeid "life is what happens to you while you're making other plans" -john lennon ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************