EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 58, Issue 07 This issue's topics: Drum machines (22 messages) Non-Drum Rhythms (9 messages) Non-drum stuff Other tools (Was: Re: Drum machines) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 12:58:26 CET From: Jack Latanowicz Subject: Drum machines Hello. I would like to ask drum users how to start collecting a MIDI drum kit. First of all what is best choice of drum modules. I know some Korg S3 Yamaha RY30, Boss DR550mkII etc... I would like to know some models which have pretty nice sounds, and they would be editable. I know that there are some machines (Korg S3 ?) I like Roland drums, because Roland is well known for drums and piano... I also know that Roland has big pads with MIDI controller. How does that system work I don't really know. Is it possible to connect it to a synth like JV880 ? Or better support it with some Roland R8M... I'm really lost in drum area. All i know that tapping rhythms on a keyboard is terrible, not mentioning sound quality of synth's drums. I'm also looking for a module which would have some basic effect processor like reverb, echo...(again KorgS3 ?) But I don't want KORG drums....they are too bad...looking at my expirience with M1... Is there a Roland machine with digital effect processor, with editable sounds, with some MIDI options for dumps of banks (and not 20 year old tape in/out plug...who in 90ies uses tapes for data storage ??????) And most of all isn't expensive because comparing BossDR550 and KorgS3 for price to possibilities goes still to S3... I'm totally lost in drum area... Jack L. BTW. Maybe Alesis ?????????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet 61-306 Poznan P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 07:20:59 -0800 From: "R. Fahl" Subject: Re: Drum machines Personally, I like the Yamaha RY30. It's a combination drum synth/drum machine. The sounds that are in it are good, but the cool thing is that you can edit them. There are two waves per patch, two filters, with resonance, a pitch envelope and other parameters that give you a lot of control over the sound. The presets sounds only hint at the machine's potential. Midi implementation is also very good. YOu can switch between different patterns from an external keyboard, for example. I should also mention the wheel controller that is on the machine. Makes editing patterns on the fly a blast. You can control filter level, pitch, pan, balance and decay with it. I will say that I find the sound a little thin, compared to Roland's stuff. I like Roland's machines a lot, too, but I went for this machine because 1)it was $300 2)it has cool filters 3)it does sound good. That's my $0.02 worth. -- ms20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:41:34 -0600 From: Ken Fansler Subject: Re: Drum machines > I got only two replies on my question. One on Alesis SR16 > and second on Yamaha RY30. I need more info on other stuff. > I collected some money and I'm stuck in middle of drum > world. > > Thanx for replies and looking forward for some more. :) > > Jack L. Jack - The best drum machine I've ever worked with is the Alesis D4. There may be better machines out there, but I haven't seen them. It has 20 banks with 60 patches in each bank (I think...), and it has audio jacks for triggering capabilities. For its relatively low price, I don't think you'll find more realistic drum sounds. It also allows for extensive editing of each patch/bank. That's the best I can give you. Good luck! Ken Fansler kwfansle@ilstu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 19:15:05 CET From: Jack Latanowicz Subject: Drum machines Hello again ! Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ???? Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger or what ? :) I got only two replies on my question. One on Alesis SR16 and second on Yamaha RY30. I need more info on other stuff. I collected some money and I'm stuck in middle of drum world. Thanx for replies and looking forward for some more. :) Jack L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet 61-306 Poznan P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 16:12:36 EST From: Brian Good Subject: Re: Drum machines > > Hello again ! > > > Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ???? > Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger > or what ? :) > I got only two replies on my question. One on Alesis SR16 > and second on Yamaha RY30. I need more info on other stuff. > I collected some money and I'm stuck in middle of drum > world. > > Thanx for replies and looking forward for some more. :) I've been using an Emu Procussion for about six months. I'd been using and HR-16 and, while the its sounds were reasonable, it really had no ability to modify them, other than changing the pitch. The Procussion is much more flexible (and of course much more expensive. Sigh). One test I use when evaluating drum machines is to try to reconstruct an authentic-sounding jazz snare; at high volume, it should display obvious attacks on each stroke, even in a roll. At low volume, however, the roll should sound almost continuous, and you should hear little or nothing in the way of individual attacks. The Procussion is the first thing I've used that would do this convincingly (by a combination of cross-fading, playing with envelopes and using velocity to control the sample start delay). Other modern machines undoubtedly can do this, but I'm satisfied with the Procussion. It *does* have a couple quirks. First, while each drum kit contains 24 "stacks", i.e. patches (which may be layered), only 8 of the stacks in each kit are user-programmable--you have to use factory stacks for the other 16. This is not quite as annoying as it sounds--there are a *lot* of factory stacks, and many of them sound quite good. Still... Second, it's a rack unit--it has no pads or keys of any kind. It also has no trigger inputs, so you can only play it via MIDI. I believe Mike Metlay wrote a review of the Procussion a couple years ago. It ought to be archived somewhere, if you're seriously interested. brian good ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 15:20:11 CET From: Jack Latanowicz Subject: Re: Drum machines On Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:41:34 -0600 Ken Fansler said: >Jack - > >The best drum machine I've ever worked with is the Alesis D4. There may be >better machines out there, but I haven't seen them. It has 20 banks with 60 >patches in each bank (I think...), and it has audio jacks for triggering >capabilities. For its relatively low price, I don't think you'll find more >realistic drum sounds. It also allows for extensive editing of each patch/bank. > >That's the best I can give you. Good luck! > >Ken Fansler >kwfansle@ilstu.edu Hello ! First of all I would like to thank You and everyone who replied. I must get closer look on Alesis SR-16 and D-4. I might consider also EMU procussion. I just didn't hear any comments on Roland R5/R8/R8M . Also on other stuff. I know that there are a lot of machines. I need editable drums to make for instance sound like Timpani or strange FX drums. I wish thay could be PCM based with typical envelopes like in synths. Best option could consider some PCM card slot for new samples... I will look forward for some more replies. Thanx again to those who thrown their 0.02$ :-) Jack L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet 61-306 Poznan P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:48:28 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: Drum machines Young Goodman Brian scratcheth: >I've been using an Emu Procussion for about six months. [...] >[...] I believe >Mike Metlay wrote a review of the Procussion a couple years ago. It >ought to be archived somewhere, if you're seriously interested. ...I did? Hmmm....I guess I did! Wow. If anyone finds a copy of it, could they send it back to me? I never save any of my reviews. But for what it's worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:38:01 EST From: Brian Good Subject: Re: Drum machines > > Young Goodman Brian scratcheth: > > >I've been using an Emu Procussion for about six months. [...] > >[...] I believe > >Mike Metlay wrote a review of the Procussion a couple years ago. It > >ought to be archived somewhere, if you're seriously interested. > > ...I did? You don't *remember*? Come now, lad, *I'm* the one getting senile (he mumbles as he slowly sinks into middle age...) > Hmmm....I guess I did! Wow. If anyone finds a copy of it, could they > send it back to me? I never save any of my reviews. But for what it's > worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have > not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost. Well, surprise surprise. My r.m.s. archive seems to have survived various AIX crashes, failed backups and ill-advised housecleaning. I can send copies to people, as long as the good Dr. Metlay gives permission. brian good bgood@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov or bsgood@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:41:08 EST From: Bill Fox Subject: Was Re: Drum Machines Dr. Mike muses: > ... But for what it's > worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have > not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost. And this from a man who is STILL trying to pare down his rig even though it already seems rather minimal (in quantity only!) from my vantage point. D-70/Xpander/EX-8000/VS(rack!) is a GREAT *little* setup but it is crying out for a sampler to be complete. A sampler would cover nicely for the Procussion plus it would have the advantage of being usable for found sounds. (Musik Conrete in the 90s!) My current suggestions would be K2000 or ASR-10, both available in rack form to keep things compact. Foxy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:18:11 -0700 From: Michael Kelsey Subject: Re: Drum machines I just bought the Kawai XD-5 percussion synth and I find it to be exciting in its potential -- up to 4 waveforms can make one patch...envelopes for DCA,DCF, etc stereo outs plus 6 single outs. And the price?...$218 at Goodmans! On Wed, 17 Nov 1993, Jack Latanowicz wrote: > On Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:41:34 -0600 Ken Fansler said: > >Jack - > > > >The best drum machine I've ever worked with is the Alesis D4. There may be > >better machines out there, but I haven't seen them. It has 20 banks with 60 > >patches in each bank (I think...), and it has audio jacks for triggering > >capabilities. For its relatively low price, I don't think you'll find more > >realistic drum sounds. It also allows for extensive editing of each patch/bank. > > > >That's the best I can give you. Good luck! > > > >Ken Fansler > >kwfansle@ilstu.edu > > > Hello ! > > First of all I would like to thank You and everyone who replied. > I must get closer look on Alesis SR-16 and D-4. I might consider > also EMU procussion. > I just didn't hear any comments on Roland R5/R8/R8M . Also > on other stuff. I know that there are a lot of machines. > > I need editable drums to make for instance sound like Timpani > or strange FX drums. I wish thay could be PCM based with typical > envelopes like in synths. Best option could consider some PCM > card slot for new samples... > > I will look forward for some more replies. Thanx again to those > who thrown their 0.02$ :-) > > Jack L. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 > Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet > 61-306 Poznan > P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 20:05:22 CST From: David McMillan Subject: Drum Machines I am thinking about buying either the Yamaha RY-50 or the BOSS 550C. Could I get someone's opinion on these. I have already fooled around with them at the music store, but I was hoping to learn a little more before I go out and spend all that money. Also, where is the best place to buy one from? Thanks In Advance D.M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 08:25:33 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Drum machines > Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ???? >Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger >or what ? :) Yes, they do. I know that at least one of the most acclaimed contemporary dancers in Scotland runs classes and workshops without music; she snaps her fingers, claps, whatever. There are all sorts of reasons for doing things this way. I've gone through a dozen or so synthesisers in the last three or four years, but have never owned a drum machine and never intend to. I either use wave sequences, or build percussion patchers in MAX. Drum machines strike me as being far too compromised and committed to the pop genre feature-wise, and I really just don't like the sound of them (although I'm impressed with what Dead Can Dance achieve). Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 09:03:53 CET From: Jack Latanowicz Subject: Re: Drum Machines On Wed, 17 Nov 1993 20:05:22 CST David McMillan said: >I am thinking about buying either the Yamaha RY-50 or the BOSS 550C. (...) > Thanks In Advance > D.M. Hay ! BOSS 550C ? Did You by mistake written 'C' or there is one of BOSS'es I don't know yet...hmmm From what I know the Boss series released 660 which is better than 550s. If You could give some info on 550C (compared to 550, 550mkII). Jack L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet 61-306 Poznan P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 09:08:56 CET From: Jack Latanowicz Subject: Re: Drum machines On Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:18:11 -0700 Michael Kelsey said: >I just bought the Kawai XD-5 percussion synth and I find it to be exciting >in its potential -- up to 4 waveforms can make one patch...envelopes for >DCA,DCF, etc stereo outs plus 6 single outs. And the price?...$218 at >Goodmans! > Hello ! Thanks for info. Could You send more details on how much PCMs are there and any new/card options for it. It sounds like a machine I'mlooking for. Are the sounds realistic ? Does it have MIDI OUT (& sysex dump) ? Many machines have only MIDI IN and tape jacks to store banks/sounds... But who in 90'ies uses tapes to store data.....hmmmmm :) Jack L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet 61-306 Poznan P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 09:30:03 CST From: David Subject: Re: Drum Machines I think it was the BOSS 550mkII ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:49:53 GMT From: Lon Amerman Subject: Re: Drum machines On Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:18:11 -0700 Michael Kelsey said: >>I just bought the Kawai XD-5 percussion synth and I find it to be exciting >>in its potential -- up to 4 waveforms can make one patch...envelopes for >>DCA,DCF, etc stereo outs plus 6 single outs. And the price?...$218 at >>Goodmans! Available now at the Guitar Center (multiple locations in CA) for $179. (this is, as Michael said, a "percussion synth" - not a drum machine) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 21:05:00 LCL From: Peter Dorsch Subject: Re: Drum machines Hallo If you like Roland Drum sounds you should take a look to the R70 drum machine.I think it has some very good features especially if you want to record your patterns in real time. There's something they call 'positional pad',a very long pad like the space bar on your keyboard. You can modulate a certain parameter (i.e. tune,panorama,hit-position,brilliance,...).A very good idea! In addition to this there are a lot of possibilities to edit the ca. 210 sounds.I think I will buy it in the nearest future! Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 10:53:24 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Drum Machines > BOSS 550C ? Did You by mistake written 'C' or there is one of BOSS'es >I don't know yet...hmmm The 550C is the colour version of the 550. Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 09:02:56 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: Drum machines >Well, surprise surprise. My r.m.s. archive seems to have survived various >AIX crashes, failed backups and ill-advised housecleaning. I can send >copies to people, as long as the good Dr. Metlay gives permission. > >brian good Hereby granted. Brian sent me a copy and I reread it with interest. I have no trouble with remailing or reposting it at all, and my opinions have not changed since it was written. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 09:48:20 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: Was Re: Drum Machines Bill Fox, in an obvious attempt to coax me out of my philosophical equivalent of a badger's set, writes: >Dr. Mike muses: >> ... But for what it's >> worth, I would love to put a Procussion in my rig someday, but have >> not gotten into rhythm/drum music enough to warrant the cost. > >And this from a man who is STILL trying to pare down his rig even though >it already seems rather minimal (in quantity only!) from my vantage >point. D-70/Xpander/EX-8000/VS(rack!) is a GREAT *little* setup but it >is crying out for a sampler to be complete. A sampler would cover >nicely for the Procussion plus it would have the advantage of being usable >for found sounds. (Musik Conrete in the 90s!) My current suggestions >would be K2000 or ASR-10, both available in rack form to keep things >compact. Bill, dear? How many times have I said that one of the big differences between thee and me is that thou hast money to spend on this stuff? ;-> As a matter of fact, I AM buying a sampler, and I DO plan to add a K2000 to my rig someday (a keyboard, since I love the feel), but unfortunately the two are not one and the same. Until I can afford a K2000, I'm going to be playing with something quite a bit less costly. It is a Korg DSS-1, a machine which was unique when it came out in 1986 and remained largely unique until the introduction of the K2000. The DSS-1 is the only sampler that was designed backwards in terms of its architecture and user interface. While it is true that all samplers until very recently were essentially analog synthesizers with sampling/sample-playback oscillators, the DSS-1 was the first one specifically designed with this paradigm in mind. It was marketed as a Sampling Synthesizer, a synth with oscillators that happened to be able to sample. The sampling capabilities were designed to be secondary to the machine's power as a synth, along the same lines as the popular DW-8000/EX-8000 series (for my pruposes, therefore, having mastered the EX-8000, the learning curve for the DSS will be short). The machine is a sweet little synth by any standards; it'd be a good machine for a novice who wants to learn his way around synths and can't afford a vintage analog or modular machine. Two oscillators per voice, plus a noise source, mixable through a real analog VCF and VCA, with six-stage envelopes and two onboard DDLs. It has the usual modulation and control capabilities, plus some nifty sample transformation stuff to liven up sounds, and the ability to store as part of a disk's memory, not only a sample set and the associated synth parameters (which take up only a few dozen bytes of memory per patch), but also up to 32 single-cycle waveforms and THEIR parameters, giving you essentially 32 DW-style synth patches with every loaded sample. It is a 12-bit sampler, but samples can be played back at lower resolution to deliberately ADD quantization noise to liven up the sound, at 8, 7, or 6 (!) bits. Wheeee....! People who have known me for a long time know that I have come within a written check of buying one five times in six years, and have always balked at the last moment. The reason has always been the same; with only 256k of onboard memory and no bulk storage, the DSS-1 is the last of the old-style angels-on-a- pinhead samplers, requiring a lot of acrobatics to do anything useful, and it's cost-effective to buy something newer these days with more RAM and storage, despite a less exciting modulation set. My mind was finally changed by the arrival of a DSS with the incredibly rare and valuable 1-Meg memory bank and SCSI port, which required a rebuild of the machine's main board and was not available outside of Japan for more than a few brief months. If this machine works as advertised when it arrives, Bill, I anticipate a major shift in my working style, and I look forward to experimenting with sampling everything from illegally taped telephone conversations with Team Metlay members about their love lives, to disgusting sound effects from the Ren and Stimpy show. To quote Frank Zappa: "This _is_ the life." -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 17:17:00 EDT From: John Rossi III Subject: Re: Was Re: Drum Machines Yet another major shift in your working style.. Does this mean that you will be revealing my true sexual identity? John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 08:19:06 PST From: metlay Subject: Re: Was Re: Drum Machines Il Signor Rossi writes: >Yet another major shift in your working style.. Does this mean that you will >be revealing my true sexual identity? Not on THIS list, sweetie. ;-> -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I incorporated the sound into my dreams...but I didn't wake up." (suzanne) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 15:13:11 EST From: Bill Fox Subject: Non-Drum Rhythms To move the gear-head thread toward a more EMUSIC-L appropriate topic; Mike said that he doesn't need a drum machine and I think I recall Nick saying that he uses wave sequences for his rhythmic needs. In general, I'd like to hear more about wave sequencing. (I currently have nothing that will do that.) But, specifically, I'd like to hear what people are doing to generate rhythms without the use of dum machines and percussion samples. ^r (Freudian slip?) I know that Dr. Mike likes arpeggiators a lot. Anybody have unique arpeggiator applications? How do you keep an arpeggiator from sounding boring? Bill Fox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:06:06 EST From: Brian Good Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms >How do you keep an arpeggiator from sounding boring? > > Bill Fox Either pull the plug or put it next to a violist. brian good ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 07:13:32 GMT From: Thomas S Wilson Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms Speaking of percussion via alternate methods... Are there any good Csound orcs for some basic drum sounds? -- ||| Scott Wilson ||| "Paradise is exactly like where ||| . . wilson@ee.msstate.edu . . you are right now, only much, . . _ "office": (601)325-2220 _ MUCH better -Laurie Anderson _ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 21:17:01 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms >In general, >I'd like to hear more about wave sequencing. An oscillator waveform can be a sequence of PCM samples, each with programmed tuning (course and fine), duration, crossfade, level. This table can be swept and looped in various ways, the start point can be modulated, and the progress through the table can be locked to MIDI beat sync. The point I was making about percussion and rhythmic material is not to do with what wave sequencing IS, but with what it is NOT. It's not a prepackaged, dictated method of programming rhythms; it's much more abstract. It does have its drawbacks; each wave sequence is routed to one effects bus setting (which implies pan position and effects), for all the wave segments for example. But it will do until I get some more tools written in MAX. Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 17:32:32 -0600 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms > An oscillator waveform can be a sequence of PCM samples, each with > programmed tuning (course and fine), duration, crossfade, level. This table > can be swept and looped in various ways, the start point can be modulated, > and the progress through the table can be locked to MIDI beat sync. How are waveseqeunces programmed? Do you record them into the wavestation by playing, do you do it event by event through the front panel? And could you program them by creating a Midifile and letting the Wavestation translate it into a wavesequence? How about Mac based editors? I'm really curious about this but if it is only through the front panel, i can see it to be a major pain. It sounds sort of like having (excuse the comparison) mod files whose performance parameters are set by the key you hit. While i'm asking questions.. I remember you talking favorably about the SP/SX combo, and i was wondering what you're opinion (if you have one) abou the Samplecell is? Or is that just not a consideration, since it would require a full Mac which isn't as portable as a Powerbook with a rack and SP/SX? -- Arne F. Claassen |"In cows we trust | EPS Classic * D4 | E pluribus Moo" | Mac Centris 650 | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 09:46:34 -0500 From: Patrick Robinson Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms > >I'd like to hear more about wave sequencing. > > each wave sequence is routed to one > effects bus setting (which implies pan position and effects), for all the > wave segments for example. But it will do until I get some more tools > written in MAX. What sort of tools? You can sort of partially get around this by programming up, for example, 2 wave sequences, each routed to the effects differently. The problem is that you can't crossfade from a segment in one sequence to a segment in the other. -Patrick pgr@ramandu.ext.vt.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1993 18:47:57 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms >>But it will do until I get some more tools >> written in MAX. >What sort of tools? Don't know yet; some kind of multitimbral, multi-output wave sequence matrix. >You can sort of partially get around this by programming up, for example, >2 wave sequences, each routed to the effects differently. The problem is >that you can't crossfade from a segment in one sequence to a segment in >the other. You can by vector mix. Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1993 18:48:08 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms >How are waveseqeunces programmed? Do you record them into the wavestation >by playing, do you do it event by event through the front panel? Front panel. >And could you >program them by creating a Midifile and letting the Wavestation translate it >into a wavesequence? Nope, not without clever outboard software. >How about Mac based editors? I believe Galaxy+Editors has this, but I've never used it. >While i'm asking questions.. I remember you talking favorably about the SP/SX >combo, and i was wondering what you're opinion (if you have one) abou the >Samplecell is? I don't have one... >Or is that just not a consideration, since it would require a >full Mac which isn't as portable as a Powerbook with a rack and SP/SX? Correct; I'm very much into PowerBooks running MAX, and small live rigs (I'm using a 6U next week, plus three fader boxes, and that's it). Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 08:38:59 -0500 From: Patrick Robinson Subject: Re: Non-Drum Rhythms > >You can sort of partially get around this by programming up, for example, > >2 wave sequences, each routed to the effects differently. The problem is > >that you can't crossfade from a segment in one sequence to a segment in > >the other. > > You can by vector mix. Hmmm... so you can. I hadn't thought of that. That would require a bit of patience, though, to match up wave sequence durations with vector envelope times. No? Have you been doing this? -Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:29:25 -0700 From: john krikawa Subject: Non-drum stuff Arne writes: >How are waveseqeunces programmed? Do you record them into the wavestation >by playing, do you do it event by event through the front panel? And could you >program them by creating a Midifile and letting the Wavestation translate it >into a wavesequence? How about Mac based editors? I'm really curious about >this but if it is only through the front panel, i can see it to be a major >pain. It sounds sort of like having (excuse the comparison) mod files whose >performance parameters are set by the key you hit. On the wavestation, wavesequences are programmed event by event from the front panel. Is it pain? It depends on what you are doing. The WS sports an excellent and intuitive user interface. I don't have a software editor for it, but Nick has indicated in the past that he prefers the WS interface just because you don't have to futz around with SysEx transfers, the WS LCD is right there staring you in the face and works very well. One problem is finding which PCM sample you are looking for. there's 515? in the EX. Durations are in MIDI beats. I think that 24 gets you a quarter note, so 12 gets an eighth and so forth. The crossfade paramater is used to cross from one step to the next. I usually set it to 1 or 0 for percussive sequences, larger numbers allow for longer crossfades which become make the sequence less coherent as rhythmic entities. I like to set up two wavesequences per patch for polyrhythmic works. You can program 1, 2 or 4 wavesequences per patch (and up to 8 patches per performance [program].....eat your voices out!) You can joystick between wavesequences if you wish, which is very useful....... _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 14:46:14 CET From: "Jack L." Subject: Other tools (Was: Re: Drum machines) >> Now come on guys...no one using an drum machine ???? >>Where are these 'prof dancers' etc ?? They tap with finger >>or what ? :) > >Yes, they do. I know that at least one of the most acclaimed contemporary >dancers in Scotland runs classes and workshops without music; she snaps her >fingers, claps, whatever. There are all sorts of reasons for doing things >this way. > >I've gone through a dozen or so synthesisers in the last three or four >years, but have never owned a drum machine and never intend to. I either >use wave sequences, or build percussion patchers in MAX. Drum machines >strike me as being far too compromised and committed to the pop genre >feature-wise, and I really just don't like the sound of them (although I'm >impressed with what Dead Can Dance achieve). > > Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk > CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk Speaking of strange ways of doing music, I'm impressed by myself in what a man can do. When I had two self-playing keyboards and my both hands were full , I used my nose to hit buttons to change voice. I won't mention using my feet to change chord (in one-finger mode) on one keyboard and playing the other. I had to do this because one didn't have MIDI in it. One other thing. When I was learning to play in a different scale where You don't hit some white keys, I put some LEGO plastic parts under keys, so if I even hit it it didn't play, and my finger hurted hitting it (the keys didn't go back...) I wonder what else people do when machines do not have required possibilities...anyone ??? :) Jack L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 Jack@plpuam11.bitnet 61-306 Poznan P O L A N D "exploring life is the sense of living..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************